[RBW] Re: New Bar Day

[Lucky]

Thanks, your Susie with the skinwalls, Brooks, and Persuader bar really 
appeals to my aesthetic. I sure do like the look of that bar. 

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 8:22:48 PM UTC-8 duh...@gmail.com wrote:

> Looking good!
>
> Something about an Atlantis with skinwalls...
>
> On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 8:09:43 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:
>
>> I put on the Simworks Fun 3 and an older Titec quill stem I had, and took 
>> the Atlantis out in the nice weather today. Amazing how it's like riding a 
>> whole 'nother bike. I like it a lot. The snack bag is from Oveja Negra 
>> Bikepacking. It's nice and big. [image: 
>> C089B5B6-8B5C-4A21-8761-D54A47B1C8A2_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
>> 02153070-1DC0-4EB6-A688-F2E8DC5CBE20_1_105_c.jpeg]
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any Susie owners out there?

[Jared Wilson]

I largely agree with Clark.

My '91 MB2 was "light" and "snappy" compared to the Susie, but I never 
really felt comfortable on it.

The Susie is what you want your bike to be, but it isn't.



On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 2:19:10 PM UTC-8 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> Sam- The Susie is completely different from a stock MB2. Susie has higher 
> bars for a more upright position centered over your feet, wider tires, and 
> a longer wheelbase. I found the Susie much more comfortable and confidence 
> inspiring on rough terrain. I sold my 1992 MB2 and bought an Atlantis- no 
> regrets.
> On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 7:16:36 AM UTC-8 Sam Perez wrote:
>
>> How does the susie compare to an mb2 I have an mb1 and assume it is the 
>> same geometry. Had to use a short stem for drips and just picked up some 
>> albatross bars to experiment.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 1:24 PM Jared Wilson  wrote:
>>
>>> Got mine set up a couple weeks back with Tumbleweed Persuader bars. 
>>>
>>> Bike is looonnnggg, but still feels nimble enough on single track, not 
>>> to mention smooth! I find she likes to self steer towards rougher terrain 
>>> just to see what happens ;)
>>>
>>> I came from a Bridgestone MB2 and I'm very happy with how the Susie 
>>> handles in comparison, I'm left wanting nothing more than to put down more 
>>> miles.
>>>
>>> Jared in Santa Cruz
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 10:55:10 AM UTC-8 benjami...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi all, my first post here!

 I am close to pulling the trigger on a Susie, but am not finding many 
 descriptions of how it rides, handles, etc.  What should I expect?  How is 
 the acceleration?  I am looking for something for 50% single track and 50% 
 gravel roads, and an occasional short bikepacking trip.  I ride a rigid 
 MTB 
 currently so the lack of front suspension won't be a shock (get it?), but 
 still am looking to smooth out some of the bumps.  How is it to ride with 
 swept back bars on technical single track? 

 Thanks a lot for the thoughts!!

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>>> 
>>> .
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[RBW] Re: New Bar Day

[Jared Wilson]

Looking good!

Something about an Atlantis with skinwalls...

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 8:09:43 PM UTC-8 Lucky wrote:

> I put on the Simworks Fun 3 and an older Titec quill stem I had, and took 
> the Atlantis out in the nice weather today. Amazing how it's like riding a 
> whole 'nother bike. I like it a lot. The snack bag is from Oveja Negra 
> Bikepacking. It's nice and big. [image: 
> C089B5B6-8B5C-4A21-8761-D54A47B1C8A2_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
> 02153070-1DC0-4EB6-A688-F2E8DC5CBE20_1_105_c.jpeg]

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[RBW] Re: Brooks B17S, Carradice Saddebag, Nitto M12 Rack

[Jared Wilson]

Brooks sold, thanks Paul!

Keeping the Carradice for the time being.

Cheers

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 9:47:01 PM UTC-8 Jared Wilson wrote:

> Rack is sold, thanks Kayly!
>
> Brooks and Carradice still available 
>
> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 10:53:56 AM UTC-8 Jared Wilson wrote:
>
>> Hello all
>>
>> Clearing out some stuff that's been collecting dust
>>
>>
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_qBhTNhYF5Owona15TEo9vax5MkhyF5L?usp=sharing
>>
>> Brooks B17s, honey color, ~100 miles, not even broken in yet. Has some 
>> spots where rain cover stuck and left some residual from the liner, some 
>> discoloration in rear and one small scuff. 
>> $110 shipped
>>
>> Carradice saddlebag, don't know what model it is but the dimensions are 
>> ~13"x7"x7"
>> $80 shipped
>>
>> Nitto M12 rack, used, needs brake post studs, otherwise in good usable 
>> condition.
>> $50 shipped
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

[Joel Stern]

I know the 51cm stayed the same, not sure where the longer ones started.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 6:46 PM Bones  wrote:

> In an email back in early September, Will mentioned that they have
> lengthened the chainstays on the newest Sams. The 60cm now has 48.5cm
> chainstays... which is pretty close to the 61.5 Homer (49cm). Tubing, tire
> clearance and brake type seem to be what sets them apart.
>
> Bones
>
> On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 6:16:04 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> "Sam shorter than Homer"
>>
>> My guess is it's an older design they've decided to leave alone for
>> buyers wary of the super-long stays of the newer models.
>>
>> On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 12:36:42 PM UTC-8 Sean B. wrote:
>>
>>> Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the
>>> AHH? With the AHH being more of a roadish bike, I would imagine it would be
>>> opposite.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:35:49 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 What I really like about Rivendell is that they do have a handful of
 frames that will work for you no matter what...and that there are little
 nuanced differences between Sam/Homer, Atlantis/Joe, etc... The differences
 in sizing between the two helps cover all pbh sizes...I'm a touch over
 93cm, so a Homer (which I was planning on getting until recently) is tough
 because I'd have more clearance than I need on a 61.5 , but might not have
 enough clearance on a 64. The Sam's most recent run had a 62cm frame that
 would be a perfect fit for me. Had I not just ordered an Atlantis the
 Tuesday before they released the garage sale frames, I would have snagged
 that 62cm orange Sam and would have got to keep using sidepull brakes.

 I agree that having Sam and Homer offer different braking makes
 sense...the Homer is less burly (according to Rivendell's catalog) so it
 makes sense that it takes the more traditional roadie brakes.


 On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:07:05 AM UTC-5 ted wrote:

> I'll guess the Sam has gone back to being canti because the Homer is
> now MIT also. Now costs are similar (same?), both have 6 deg top tubes,
> etc. May as well make the brakes different.
> I think choosing between a new Sam or Homer based on brake style
> preference would make a lot of sense.
> Of course I also think choosing based on preferred color, head badge,
> or name would make a lot of sense too.
>
> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:56:14 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> How the canti-Sam became a sidepull-Sam early on involves a guess on
>> my part based on more arcane Riv knowledge than I should probably admit 
>> to
>> harboring:
>>
>> Originally the Sam showed up as a canti MIT version of the
>> Toyo/Waterford Saluki/Homer caliper bike. I believe the caliper Ram was
>> still around at this time, too, so Riv was all full up on caliper road
>> bikes. Later the Ram went away and Homer kept getting more expensive so 
>> Sam
>> morphed into the caliper road/country "standard" Rivbike. Now things are
>> all different and I won't try to figure out why it's canti again, I've 
>> been
>> arcane enough!
>>
>> Joe "he knows too much, yet is so little help" Bernard
>>
>> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:10:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> From an engineering perspective, what I appreciate about side-pull
>>> brakes is that all the clamping forces are contained within the brake
>>> itself, ie it does not exert any bending force on the fork/frame like a
>>> canti or v-brake does. Even the braking force goes to the crown of the 
>>> fork
>>> rather than the blades, so the fork blades can focus on other things. 
>>> That
>>> said, the tire clearance limitation is a problem if you like anything
>>> bigger than a 42c.
>>>
>>> Reminds me - James told me via email that the Charlie H Gallop is
>>> going to be side-pull rather than v-brake like the prototypes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:01 PM ted  wrote:
>>>
 New newer newest ...
 Standard oversised ...
 normal short long ...
 Traditional ...

 All relative terms whose meanings morph and evolve and the use of
 which may or may not make sense to one depending on how long you've 
 been
 paying attention.
 From where I sit the waterford AHH and atlantis were the last of
 the more "traditional" Riv designs, the break being 6 deg top tubes and
 more limited sizing.
 With the longer wheelbase MIT models its another leap from
 "traditional".
 Maybe it's because I grew up before mountain bikes, but to my eye
 side/center pull brakes are traditional while cantilevers (not to 
 mention V
 brakes) are new 

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

[tom coppedge]

Slightly longer chain stays, not much, since it now takes a larger tire
compared to sidepull version — hooray. Geometry is essentially same
otherwise I believe. I have a 62 double TT, wife has a 58, both sidepulls.
The newer 60 canti is of so close geometrically to the 62 sidepull.

Tom

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 6:46 PM Bones  wrote:

> In an email back in early September, Will mentioned that they have
> lengthened the chainstays on the newest Sams. The 60cm now has 48.5cm
> chainstays... which is pretty close to the 61.5 Homer (49cm). Tubing, tire
> clearance and brake type seem to be what sets them apart.
>
> Bones
>
> On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 6:16:04 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> "Sam shorter than Homer"
>>
>> My guess is it's an older design they've decided to leave alone for
>> buyers wary of the super-long stays of the newer models.
>>
>> On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 12:36:42 PM UTC-8 Sean B. wrote:
>>
>>> Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the
>>> AHH? With the AHH being more of a roadish bike, I would imagine it would be
>>> opposite.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:35:49 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 What I really like about Rivendell is that they do have a handful of
 frames that will work for you no matter what...and that there are little
 nuanced differences between Sam/Homer, Atlantis/Joe, etc... The differences
 in sizing between the two helps cover all pbh sizes...I'm a touch over
 93cm, so a Homer (which I was planning on getting until recently) is tough
 because I'd have more clearance than I need on a 61.5 , but might not have
 enough clearance on a 64. The Sam's most recent run had a 62cm frame that
 would be a perfect fit for me. Had I not just ordered an Atlantis the
 Tuesday before they released the garage sale frames, I would have snagged
 that 62cm orange Sam and would have got to keep using sidepull brakes.

 I agree that having Sam and Homer offer different braking makes
 sense...the Homer is less burly (according to Rivendell's catalog) so it
 makes sense that it takes the more traditional roadie brakes.


 On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:07:05 AM UTC-5 ted wrote:

> I'll guess the Sam has gone back to being canti because the Homer is
> now MIT also. Now costs are similar (same?), both have 6 deg top tubes,
> etc. May as well make the brakes different.
> I think choosing between a new Sam or Homer based on brake style
> preference would make a lot of sense.
> Of course I also think choosing based on preferred color, head badge,
> or name would make a lot of sense too.
>
> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:56:14 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> How the canti-Sam became a sidepull-Sam early on involves a guess on
>> my part based on more arcane Riv knowledge than I should probably admit 
>> to
>> harboring:
>>
>> Originally the Sam showed up as a canti MIT version of the
>> Toyo/Waterford Saluki/Homer caliper bike. I believe the caliper Ram was
>> still around at this time, too, so Riv was all full up on caliper road
>> bikes. Later the Ram went away and Homer kept getting more expensive so 
>> Sam
>> morphed into the caliper road/country "standard" Rivbike. Now things are
>> all different and I won't try to figure out why it's canti again, I've 
>> been
>> arcane enough!
>>
>> Joe "he knows too much, yet is so little help" Bernard
>>
>> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:10:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> From an engineering perspective, what I appreciate about side-pull
>>> brakes is that all the clamping forces are contained within the brake
>>> itself, ie it does not exert any bending force on the fork/frame like a
>>> canti or v-brake does. Even the braking force goes to the crown of the 
>>> fork
>>> rather than the blades, so the fork blades can focus on other things. 
>>> That
>>> said, the tire clearance limitation is a problem if you like anything
>>> bigger than a 42c.
>>>
>>> Reminds me - James told me via email that the Charlie H Gallop is
>>> going to be side-pull rather than v-brake like the prototypes
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:01 PM ted  wrote:
>>>
 New newer newest ...
 Standard oversised ...
 normal short long ...
 Traditional ...

 All relative terms whose meanings morph and evolve and the use of
 which may or may not make sense to one depending on how long you've 
 been
 paying attention.
 From where I sit the waterford AHH and atlantis were the last of
 the more "traditional" Riv designs, the break being 6 deg top tubes and
 more limited sizing.
 With the longer wheelbase MIT models its another leap from

[RBW] Re: VP 001 rebuild kit

[spencer robinson]

Hi John,
I rebuild a set last year, you just need a socket that will fit down in 
there to get that nut off...one side is threads reversed, If I remember 
correctly. Then with a pick or fat screw, get the old bearing out..
In hind sight, if I had to do it again, I would toss the pedals in the 
garbage bin, You can get a brand new set of Clem pedals for not much more 
than the rebuild kit. The rebuild lasted about a month and then 
clickclick.click.  I am disappointed with the performance of the VP 
001 pedals. They are really nice but seem to wear out quickly. The Clem’s 
are lighter and at the Clem price, you don’t feel so bad when or if they 
 give up on you. I have a set of Clem’s that have out lasted the 001 model. 
Maybe the composite does not telegraph the bearing clicking.

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 10:59:13 AM UTC-5 J Schwartz wrote:

> I did see that, thank you.
> I think there are some differences between those two pedals...but I can 
> make some assumptions based on the video about how the 001 should go back 
> together...would just rather have a definitive how-to
> JS
>
> On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 10:57:46 AM UTC-5 Paul Clifton wrote:
>
>> There used to be a video on the VP website, but it's not there anymore. 
>> There is only a video for the Harrier rebuild. 
>> https://www.vpcomponents.com/vp-harrier-dh5-rebuild-instructions/
>> I didn't watch it, and you probably already found it, but if not, maybe 
>> that's helpful.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:21:52 PM UTC-6 J Schwartz wrote:
>>
>>> Hello
>>> Looking for some assistance re: VP-001 rebuilding
>>> I've managed to find a VP-001 rebuild kit, but can't seem to find any 
>>> info online about how to go about rebuilding them.
>>> Does anyone have info regarding that?
>>> I've managed to take apart the offending pedal (the right one) and 
>>> successfully tapped out 2 bearings.
>>> But I'm not sure about how get them back in...also I'm not sure if one 
>>> is different from the other and if one needs to go in first, etc.
>>> There are also collar bushings in the rebuild kit, however no bushings 
>>> like that in my pedal body.
>>> If you've done this successfully, I'd much appreciate to hear how it went
>>> thanks
>>> JS
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 5:29:34 AM UTC-4 spencer robinson wrote:
>>>
 I did email Rivendell as I did not see the VP 001 rebuild kits listed 
 but the other Spencer looked for me and found a few kits in stock. The 
 rebuild is pretty straightforward and it just involved finding the right 
 socket and pick to get the bushings out. The bearings are a sealed design. 
 Easy to do and saved a set of pedals. I think the cost to rebuild them was 
 worthwhile.

 On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 11:00:52 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

>
>I have no idea if this helps or not, I take any pedal I buy apart 
> upon install and liberally apply grease in the axle. Enough that it oozes 
> out when it's back together. Knock on a Gorillas tree, everything has 
> worked perfectly. 
>
>   Some brands have very little grease from the factory. 
>
>   Before assuming the bearings are gone, if you hear noises just take 
> it apart and grease it very well. Try it out !  Grease is a great thing !
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Thanks and shout out to LBS

[Bones]

Looks great Adam! I'm glad you didn't hesitate to take it right out into 
the elements where it belongs. That bike will do anything you want it to do.

Bones

On Thursday, January 28, 2021 at 4:22:53 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:

> Hi, new member here, been gathering a lot of info and thought I'd say 
> thanks.
>
> Just wanted to thank the list--particularly the member who sold me the 
> Hillborne frame a month or so ago. (won't call you out by name in case 
> that's not what you want)
>
> I had it built up by a great "newish" LBS, Keystone Bicycle Co 
>  here in Philly. If anyone in the area 
> doesn't know about them (I didn't) it's a great shop. They did a wonderful, 
> very simple build and were amazing to work with (so much great attention to 
> detail, and super patient with my questions, decisions, etc)
>
> The bike's amazing, took it for a little ride in the cold rain yesterday, 
> I'm blown away by the handling and responsiveness. I somehow didn't expect 
> it to be so fast.
>
> [image: PXL_20210126_192214101~2.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

[Bones]

In an email back in early September, Will mentioned that they have 
lengthened the chainstays on the newest Sams. The 60cm now has 48.5cm 
chainstays... which is pretty close to the 61.5 Homer (49cm). Tubing, tire 
clearance and brake type seem to be what sets them apart.

Bones

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 6:16:04 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> "Sam shorter than Homer"
>
> My guess is it's an older design they've decided to leave alone for buyers 
> wary of the super-long stays of the newer models. 
>
> On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 12:36:42 PM UTC-8 Sean B. wrote:
>
>> Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the 
>> AHH? With the AHH being more of a roadish bike, I would imagine it would be 
>> opposite. 
>>
>> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:35:49 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What I really like about Rivendell is that they do have a handful of 
>>> frames that will work for you no matter what...and that there are little 
>>> nuanced differences between Sam/Homer, Atlantis/Joe, etc... The differences 
>>> in sizing between the two helps cover all pbh sizes...I'm a touch over 
>>> 93cm, so a Homer (which I was planning on getting until recently) is tough 
>>> because I'd have more clearance than I need on a 61.5 , but might not have 
>>> enough clearance on a 64. The Sam's most recent run had a 62cm frame that 
>>> would be a perfect fit for me. Had I not just ordered an Atlantis the 
>>> Tuesday before they released the garage sale frames, I would have snagged 
>>> that 62cm orange Sam and would have got to keep using sidepull brakes. 
>>>
>>> I agree that having Sam and Homer offer different braking makes 
>>> sense...the Homer is less burly (according to Rivendell's catalog) so it 
>>> makes sense that it takes the more traditional roadie brakes. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:07:05 AM UTC-5 ted wrote:
>>>
 I'll guess the Sam has gone back to being canti because the Homer is 
 now MIT also. Now costs are similar (same?), both have 6 deg top tubes, 
 etc. May as well make the brakes different.
 I think choosing between a new Sam or Homer based on brake style 
 preference would make a lot of sense.
 Of course I also think choosing based on preferred color, head badge, 
 or name would make a lot of sense too.

 On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:56:14 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> How the canti-Sam became a sidepull-Sam early on involves a guess on 
> my part based on more arcane Riv knowledge than I should probably admit 
> to 
> harboring:
>
> Originally the Sam showed up as a canti MIT version of the 
> Toyo/Waterford Saluki/Homer caliper bike. I believe the caliper Ram was 
> still around at this time, too, so Riv was all full up on caliper road 
> bikes. Later the Ram went away and Homer kept getting more expensive so 
> Sam 
> morphed into the caliper road/country "standard" Rivbike. Now things are 
> all different and I won't try to figure out why it's canti again, I've 
> been 
> arcane enough!
>
> Joe "he knows too much, yet is so little help" Bernard 
>
> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:10:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> From an engineering perspective, what I appreciate about side-pull 
>> brakes is that all the clamping forces are contained within the brake 
>> itself, ie it does not exert any bending force on the fork/frame like a 
>> canti or v-brake does. Even the braking force goes to the crown of the 
>> fork 
>> rather than the blades, so the fork blades can focus on other things. 
>> That 
>> said, the tire clearance limitation is a problem if you like anything 
>> bigger than a 42c. 
>>
>> Reminds me - James told me via email that the Charlie H Gallop is 
>> going to be side-pull rather than v-brake like the prototypes
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:01 PM ted  wrote:
>>
>>> New newer newest ...
>>> Standard oversised ...
>>> normal short long ...
>>> Traditional ...
>>>
>>> All relative terms whose meanings morph and evolve and the use of 
>>> which may or may not make sense to one depending on how long you've 
>>> been 
>>> paying attention.
>>> From where I sit the waterford AHH and atlantis were the last of the 
>>> more "traditional" Riv designs, the break being 6 deg top tubes and 
>>> more 
>>> limited sizing.
>>> With the longer wheelbase MIT models its another leap from 
>>> "traditional".
>>> Maybe it's because I grew up before mountain bikes, but to my eye 
>>> side/center pull brakes are traditional while cantilevers (not to 
>>> mention V 
>>> brakes) are new fangled. Discs new fangleder yet.
>>> But I think RBW would say they aren't about tradition but about 
>>> practical bikes and what works.
>>>
>>> There were 

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

[Joe Bernard]

"Sam shorter than Homer"

My guess is it's an older design they've decided to leave alone for buyers 
wary of the super-long stays of the newer models. 

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 12:36:42 PM UTC-8 Sean B. wrote:

> Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the AHH? 
> With the AHH being more of a roadish bike, I would imagine it would be 
> opposite. 
>
> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:35:49 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> What I really like about Rivendell is that they do have a handful of 
>> frames that will work for you no matter what...and that there are little 
>> nuanced differences between Sam/Homer, Atlantis/Joe, etc... The differences 
>> in sizing between the two helps cover all pbh sizes...I'm a touch over 
>> 93cm, so a Homer (which I was planning on getting until recently) is tough 
>> because I'd have more clearance than I need on a 61.5 , but might not have 
>> enough clearance on a 64. The Sam's most recent run had a 62cm frame that 
>> would be a perfect fit for me. Had I not just ordered an Atlantis the 
>> Tuesday before they released the garage sale frames, I would have snagged 
>> that 62cm orange Sam and would have got to keep using sidepull brakes. 
>>
>> I agree that having Sam and Homer offer different braking makes 
>> sense...the Homer is less burly (according to Rivendell's catalog) so it 
>> makes sense that it takes the more traditional roadie brakes. 
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:07:05 AM UTC-5 ted wrote:
>>
>>> I'll guess the Sam has gone back to being canti because the Homer is now 
>>> MIT also. Now costs are similar (same?), both have 6 deg top tubes, etc. 
>>> May as well make the brakes different.
>>> I think choosing between a new Sam or Homer based on brake style 
>>> preference would make a lot of sense.
>>> Of course I also think choosing based on preferred color, head badge, or 
>>> name would make a lot of sense too.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:56:14 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

 How the canti-Sam became a sidepull-Sam early on involves a guess on my 
 part based on more arcane Riv knowledge than I should probably admit to 
 harboring:

 Originally the Sam showed up as a canti MIT version of the 
 Toyo/Waterford Saluki/Homer caliper bike. I believe the caliper Ram was 
 still around at this time, too, so Riv was all full up on caliper road 
 bikes. Later the Ram went away and Homer kept getting more expensive so 
 Sam 
 morphed into the caliper road/country "standard" Rivbike. Now things are 
 all different and I won't try to figure out why it's canti again, I've 
 been 
 arcane enough!

 Joe "he knows too much, yet is so little help" Bernard 

 On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:10:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> From an engineering perspective, what I appreciate about side-pull 
> brakes is that all the clamping forces are contained within the brake 
> itself, ie it does not exert any bending force on the fork/frame like a 
> canti or v-brake does. Even the braking force goes to the crown of the 
> fork 
> rather than the blades, so the fork blades can focus on other things. 
> That 
> said, the tire clearance limitation is a problem if you like anything 
> bigger than a 42c. 
>
> Reminds me - James told me via email that the Charlie H Gallop is 
> going to be side-pull rather than v-brake like the prototypes
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:01 PM ted  wrote:
>
>> New newer newest ...
>> Standard oversised ...
>> normal short long ...
>> Traditional ...
>>
>> All relative terms whose meanings morph and evolve and the use of 
>> which may or may not make sense to one depending on how long you've been 
>> paying attention.
>> From where I sit the waterford AHH and atlantis were the last of the 
>> more "traditional" Riv designs, the break being 6 deg top tubes and more 
>> limited sizing.
>> With the longer wheelbase MIT models its another leap from 
>> "traditional".
>> Maybe it's because I grew up before mountain bikes, but to my eye 
>> side/center pull brakes are traditional while cantilevers (not to 
>> mention V 
>> brakes) are new fangled. Discs new fangleder yet.
>> But I think RBW would say they aren't about tradition but about 
>> practical bikes and what works.
>>
>> There were side pull Roms and canti-Roms, there were side pull 
>> Salukis and canti Salukis, there've been canti Sams and side pull Sams, 
>> the 
>> SOs were going to be side pull but the builder used the wrong rear brake 
>> bridge so they ended up canti. Prior to their recent embrace of V brakes 
>> (and the slow march towards ever bigger and bigger tires) RBW seemed 
>> quite 
>> agnostic wrt the whole canti vs side/center pull thing, and they went 

Re: [RBW] Re: Any Susie owners out there?

[Clark Fitzgerald]

Sam- The Susie is completely different from a stock MB2. Susie has higher 
bars for a more upright position centered over your feet, wider tires, and 
a longer wheelbase. I found the Susie much more comfortable and confidence 
inspiring on rough terrain. I sold my 1992 MB2 and bought an Atlantis- no 
regrets.
On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 7:16:36 AM UTC-8 Sam Perez wrote:

> How does the susie compare to an mb2 I have an mb1 and assume it is the 
> same geometry. Had to use a short stem for drips and just picked up some 
> albatross bars to experiment.
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 1:24 PM Jared Wilson  wrote:
>
>> Got mine set up a couple weeks back with Tumbleweed Persuader bars. 
>>
>> Bike is looonnnggg, but still feels nimble enough on single track, not to 
>> mention smooth! I find she likes to self steer towards rougher terrain just 
>> to see what happens ;)
>>
>> I came from a Bridgestone MB2 and I'm very happy with how the Susie 
>> handles in comparison, I'm left wanting nothing more than to put down more 
>> miles.
>>
>> Jared in Santa Cruz
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 10:55:10 AM UTC-8 benjami...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, my first post here!
>>>
>>> I am close to pulling the trigger on a Susie, but am not finding many 
>>> descriptions of how it rides, handles, etc.  What should I expect?  How is 
>>> the acceleration?  I am looking for something for 50% single track and 50% 
>>> gravel roads, and an occasional short bikepacking trip.  I ride a rigid MTB 
>>> currently so the lack of front suspension won't be a shock (get it?), but 
>>> still am looking to smooth out some of the bumps.  How is it to ride with 
>>> swept back bars on technical single track? 
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot for the thoughts!!
>>>
>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/18f2e29a-ca00-4856-acf6-92ffa3c0565dn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

[Joel Stern]

Not sure but happy they are.  Very happy with the Sam.

On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 3:36 PM Sean B.  wrote:

> Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the AHH?
> With the AHH being more of a roadish bike, I would imagine it would be
> opposite.
>
> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:35:49 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> What I really like about Rivendell is that they do have a handful of
>> frames that will work for you no matter what...and that there are little
>> nuanced differences between Sam/Homer, Atlantis/Joe, etc... The differences
>> in sizing between the two helps cover all pbh sizes...I'm a touch over
>> 93cm, so a Homer (which I was planning on getting until recently) is tough
>> because I'd have more clearance than I need on a 61.5 , but might not have
>> enough clearance on a 64. The Sam's most recent run had a 62cm frame that
>> would be a perfect fit for me. Had I not just ordered an Atlantis the
>> Tuesday before they released the garage sale frames, I would have snagged
>> that 62cm orange Sam and would have got to keep using sidepull brakes.
>>
>> I agree that having Sam and Homer offer different braking makes
>> sense...the Homer is less burly (according to Rivendell's catalog) so it
>> makes sense that it takes the more traditional roadie brakes.
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:07:05 AM UTC-5 ted wrote:
>>
>>> I'll guess the Sam has gone back to being canti because the Homer is now
>>> MIT also. Now costs are similar (same?), both have 6 deg top tubes, etc.
>>> May as well make the brakes different.
>>> I think choosing between a new Sam or Homer based on brake style
>>> preference would make a lot of sense.
>>> Of course I also think choosing based on preferred color, head badge, or
>>> name would make a lot of sense too.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:56:14 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:

 How the canti-Sam became a sidepull-Sam early on involves a guess on my
 part based on more arcane Riv knowledge than I should probably admit to
 harboring:

 Originally the Sam showed up as a canti MIT version of the
 Toyo/Waterford Saluki/Homer caliper bike. I believe the caliper Ram was
 still around at this time, too, so Riv was all full up on caliper road
 bikes. Later the Ram went away and Homer kept getting more expensive so Sam
 morphed into the caliper road/country "standard" Rivbike. Now things are
 all different and I won't try to figure out why it's canti again, I've been
 arcane enough!

 Joe "he knows too much, yet is so little help" Bernard

 On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:10:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> From an engineering perspective, what I appreciate about side-pull
> brakes is that all the clamping forces are contained within the brake
> itself, ie it does not exert any bending force on the fork/frame like a
> canti or v-brake does. Even the braking force goes to the crown of the 
> fork
> rather than the blades, so the fork blades can focus on other things. That
> said, the tire clearance limitation is a problem if you like anything
> bigger than a 42c.
>
> Reminds me - James told me via email that the Charlie H Gallop is
> going to be side-pull rather than v-brake like the prototypes
>
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:01 PM ted  wrote:
>
>> New newer newest ...
>> Standard oversised ...
>> normal short long ...
>> Traditional ...
>>
>> All relative terms whose meanings morph and evolve and the use of
>> which may or may not make sense to one depending on how long you've been
>> paying attention.
>> From where I sit the waterford AHH and atlantis were the last of the
>> more "traditional" Riv designs, the break being 6 deg top tubes and more
>> limited sizing.
>> With the longer wheelbase MIT models its another leap from
>> "traditional".
>> Maybe it's because I grew up before mountain bikes, but to my eye
>> side/center pull brakes are traditional while cantilevers (not to 
>> mention V
>> brakes) are new fangled. Discs new fangleder yet.
>> But I think RBW would say they aren't about tradition but about
>> practical bikes and what works.
>>
>> There were side pull Roms and canti-Roms, there were side pull
>> Salukis and canti Salukis, there've been canti Sams and side pull Sams, 
>> the
>> SOs were going to be side pull but the builder used the wrong rear brake
>> bridge so they ended up canti. Prior to their recent embrace of V brakes
>> (and the slow march towards ever bigger and bigger tires) RBW seemed 
>> quite
>> agnostic wrt the whole canti vs side/center pull thing, and they went 
>> back
>> and forth quite a bit.
>>
>> I'm continually amazed at how strongly many folks feel about various
>> types of brakes. In my (admittedly somewhat limited) 

Re: [RBW] Re: Sam Hillborne vs A. Homer Hilsen

[Sean B.]

Why do you think the chainstays on the Hillborne are shorter than the AHH? 
With the AHH being more of a roadish bike, I would imagine it would be 
opposite. 

On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:35:49 AM UTC-5 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

> What I really like about Rivendell is that they do have a handful of 
> frames that will work for you no matter what...and that there are little 
> nuanced differences between Sam/Homer, Atlantis/Joe, etc... The differences 
> in sizing between the two helps cover all pbh sizes...I'm a touch over 
> 93cm, so a Homer (which I was planning on getting until recently) is tough 
> because I'd have more clearance than I need on a 61.5 , but might not have 
> enough clearance on a 64. The Sam's most recent run had a 62cm frame that 
> would be a perfect fit for me. Had I not just ordered an Atlantis the 
> Tuesday before they released the garage sale frames, I would have snagged 
> that 62cm orange Sam and would have got to keep using sidepull brakes. 
>
> I agree that having Sam and Homer offer different braking makes 
> sense...the Homer is less burly (according to Rivendell's catalog) so it 
> makes sense that it takes the more traditional roadie brakes. 
>
>
> On Sunday, September 6, 2020 at 10:07:05 AM UTC-5 ted wrote:
>
>> I'll guess the Sam has gone back to being canti because the Homer is now 
>> MIT also. Now costs are similar (same?), both have 6 deg top tubes, etc. 
>> May as well make the brakes different.
>> I think choosing between a new Sam or Homer based on brake style 
>> preference would make a lot of sense.
>> Of course I also think choosing based on preferred color, head badge, or 
>> name would make a lot of sense too.
>>
>> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:56:14 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> How the canti-Sam became a sidepull-Sam early on involves a guess on my 
>>> part based on more arcane Riv knowledge than I should probably admit to 
>>> harboring:
>>>
>>> Originally the Sam showed up as a canti MIT version of the 
>>> Toyo/Waterford Saluki/Homer caliper bike. I believe the caliper Ram was 
>>> still around at this time, too, so Riv was all full up on caliper road 
>>> bikes. Later the Ram went away and Homer kept getting more expensive so Sam 
>>> morphed into the caliper road/country "standard" Rivbike. Now things are 
>>> all different and I won't try to figure out why it's canti again, I've been 
>>> arcane enough!
>>>
>>> Joe "he knows too much, yet is so little help" Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 5, 2020 at 7:10:37 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 From an engineering perspective, what I appreciate about side-pull 
 brakes is that all the clamping forces are contained within the brake 
 itself, ie it does not exert any bending force on the fork/frame like a 
 canti or v-brake does. Even the braking force goes to the crown of the 
 fork 
 rather than the blades, so the fork blades can focus on other things. That 
 said, the tire clearance limitation is a problem if you like anything 
 bigger than a 42c. 

 Reminds me - James told me via email that the Charlie H Gallop is going 
 to be side-pull rather than v-brake like the prototypes



 On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 7:01 PM ted  wrote:

> New newer newest ...
> Standard oversised ...
> normal short long ...
> Traditional ...
>
> All relative terms whose meanings morph and evolve and the use of 
> which may or may not make sense to one depending on how long you've been 
> paying attention.
> From where I sit the waterford AHH and atlantis were the last of the 
> more "traditional" Riv designs, the break being 6 deg top tubes and more 
> limited sizing.
> With the longer wheelbase MIT models its another leap from 
> "traditional".
> Maybe it's because I grew up before mountain bikes, but to my eye 
> side/center pull brakes are traditional while cantilevers (not to mention 
> V 
> brakes) are new fangled. Discs new fangleder yet.
> But I think RBW would say they aren't about tradition but about 
> practical bikes and what works.
>
> There were side pull Roms and canti-Roms, there were side pull Salukis 
> and canti Salukis, there've been canti Sams and side pull Sams, the SOs 
> were going to be side pull but the builder used the wrong rear brake 
> bridge 
> so they ended up canti. Prior to their recent embrace of V brakes (and 
> the 
> slow march towards ever bigger and bigger tires) RBW seemed quite 
> agnostic 
> wrt the whole canti vs side/center pull thing, and they went back and 
> forth 
> quite a bit.
>
> I'm continually amazed at how strongly many folks feel about various 
> types of brakes. In my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience they all 
> can work fine. That said, I find side/center pull calipers the easiest 
> and 
> least fidly to set up. If they 

[RBW] Re: FS: 1981 Trek 710 "22.5"

[Patch T]

To clarify sizing:

As far as I can tell, Trek used *Center to Top* of seat tube to identify 
sizes offered.
So their "Size 22.5" (57cm) is the seat tube measured *Center to Top*.
Measured *Center to Center*, the seat tube is 56cm (~22 in).
Measure *Center to Center*, the top tube is 56cm (~22 in).

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 8:56:27 AM UTC-5 Patch T wrote:

> Hello Bunch!
>
> Passing along this frame - fork - headset - bottom bracket. *$200 + 
> shipping*
> *but really hoping for a local sale; can drive + delivery myself, too, 
> depending*
> Sizing details here 
>  and also here 
> ,
>  
> oh wow, here too! 
>
>- 531 double butted throughout - "sport touring" model
>- Size "22.5" - measured C to C, it is 56cm square
>- Clearance for 700x32 + fenders, or 35!
>- Clearance 650bx38 + fenders, or 42!
>   - I was actually able to fit SKS B53 over WTB Resolute (650b 42mm) 
>   with enough room for commuting sanity, rear axle all the way back in 
> the 
>   dropout
>- Sparkly navy blue, some paint chips
>- Fork has fender mounts
>- Rear stays have rack mounts + rear drops have fender mounts 
>- Very lightweight, comfortable, capable frame
>- I think the BB is a UN55
>- The IRD headset has seen better days cosmetically (someone used a 
>toothed wrench for adjustment), but otherwise perfect
>- *I have long and mid reach brakes, a full 600 group, and a bunch of 
>other random parts you can ask about if you want to put together a semi 
>build package*
>
> I'm selling because I have too much overlap with wide-tired sporty bikes, 
> and have moved on to a 26"er for my commuting bike. I picked up a go-fasty 
> bike with tighter geometry and I'm out of storage room! Otherwise I would 
> keep - it's a dreamy bike.
> Let me know if I forgot something or if you have questions!
>
> PHOTOS HERE 
>
> Thanks all,
> Patch
> BK/NY
>

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[RBW] Re: VP 001 rebuild kit

[J Schwartz]

I did see that, thank you.
I think there are some differences between those two pedals...but I can 
make some assumptions based on the video about how the 001 should go back 
together...would just rather have a definitive how-to
JS

On Saturday, January 30, 2021 at 10:57:46 AM UTC-5 Paul Clifton wrote:

> There used to be a video on the VP website, but it's not there anymore. 
> There is only a video for the Harrier rebuild. 
> https://www.vpcomponents.com/vp-harrier-dh5-rebuild-instructions/
> I didn't watch it, and you probably already found it, but if not, maybe 
> that's helpful.
>
> Paul
>
> On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:21:52 PM UTC-6 J Schwartz wrote:
>
>> Hello
>> Looking for some assistance re: VP-001 rebuilding
>> I've managed to find a VP-001 rebuild kit, but can't seem to find any 
>> info online about how to go about rebuilding them.
>> Does anyone have info regarding that?
>> I've managed to take apart the offending pedal (the right one) and 
>> successfully tapped out 2 bearings.
>> But I'm not sure about how get them back in...also I'm not sure if one is 
>> different from the other and if one needs to go in first, etc.
>> There are also collar bushings in the rebuild kit, however no bushings 
>> like that in my pedal body.
>> If you've done this successfully, I'd much appreciate to hear how it went
>> thanks
>> JS
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 5:29:34 AM UTC-4 spencer robinson wrote:
>>
>>> I did email Rivendell as I did not see the VP 001 rebuild kits listed 
>>> but the other Spencer looked for me and found a few kits in stock. The 
>>> rebuild is pretty straightforward and it just involved finding the right 
>>> socket and pick to get the bushings out. The bearings are a sealed design. 
>>> Easy to do and saved a set of pedals. I think the cost to rebuild them was 
>>> worthwhile.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 11:00:52 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>>

I have no idea if this helps or not, I take any pedal I buy apart 
 upon install and liberally apply grease in the axle. Enough that it oozes 
 out when it's back together. Knock on a Gorillas tree, everything has 
 worked perfectly. 

   Some brands have very little grease from the factory. 

   Before assuming the bearings are gone, if you hear noises just take 
 it apart and grease it very well. Try it out !  Grease is a great thing !




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[RBW] Re: VP 001 rebuild kit

[Paul Clifton]

There used to be a video on the VP website, but it's not there anymore. 
There is only a video for the Harrier rebuild. 
https://www.vpcomponents.com/vp-harrier-dh5-rebuild-instructions/
I didn't watch it, and you probably already found it, but if not, maybe 
that's helpful.

Paul

On Friday, January 29, 2021 at 5:21:52 PM UTC-6 J Schwartz wrote:

> Hello
> Looking for some assistance re: VP-001 rebuilding
> I've managed to find a VP-001 rebuild kit, but can't seem to find any info 
> online about how to go about rebuilding them.
> Does anyone have info regarding that?
> I've managed to take apart the offending pedal (the right one) and 
> successfully tapped out 2 bearings.
> But I'm not sure about how get them back in...also I'm not sure if one is 
> different from the other and if one needs to go in first, etc.
> There are also collar bushings in the rebuild kit, however no bushings 
> like that in my pedal body.
> If you've done this successfully, I'd much appreciate to hear how it went
> thanks
> JS
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 8, 2020 at 5:29:34 AM UTC-4 spencer robinson wrote:
>
>> I did email Rivendell as I did not see the VP 001 rebuild kits listed but 
>> the other Spencer looked for me and found a few kits in stock. The rebuild 
>> is pretty straightforward and it just involved finding the right socket and 
>> pick to get the bushings out. The bearings are a sealed design. Easy to do 
>> and saved a set of pedals. I think the cost to rebuild them was worthwhile.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 19, 2020 at 11:00:52 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I have no idea if this helps or not, I take any pedal I buy apart 
>>> upon install and liberally apply grease in the axle. Enough that it oozes 
>>> out when it's back together. Knock on a Gorillas tree, everything has 
>>> worked perfectly. 
>>>
>>>   Some brands have very little grease from the factory. 
>>>
>>>   Before assuming the bearings are gone, if you hear noises just take it 
>>> apart and grease it very well. Try it out !  Grease is a great thing !
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any Susie owners out there?

[Sam Perez]

How does the susie compare to an mb2 I have an mb1 and assume it is the
same geometry. Had to use a short stem for drips and just picked up some
albatross bars to experiment.

On Thu, Jan 28, 2021, 1:24 PM Jared Wilson  wrote:

> Got mine set up a couple weeks back with Tumbleweed Persuader bars.
>
> Bike is looonnnggg, but still feels nimble enough on single track, not to
> mention smooth! I find she likes to self steer towards rougher terrain just
> to see what happens ;)
>
> I came from a Bridgestone MB2 and I'm very happy with how the Susie
> handles in comparison, I'm left wanting nothing more than to put down more
> miles.
>
> Jared in Santa Cruz
>
> On Tuesday, January 26, 2021 at 10:55:10 AM UTC-8 benjami...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all, my first post here!
>>
>> I am close to pulling the trigger on a Susie, but am not finding many
>> descriptions of how it rides, handles, etc.  What should I expect?  How is
>> the acceleration?  I am looking for something for 50% single track and 50%
>> gravel roads, and an occasional short bikepacking trip.  I ride a rigid MTB
>> currently so the lack of front suspension won't be a shock (get it?), but
>> still am looking to smooth out some of the bumps.  How is it to ride with
>> swept back bars on technical single track?
>>
>> Thanks a lot for the thoughts!!
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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