Re: [RBW] Re: a worthy Bombadil is back on the road at long last...

['WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch]

The posting for the threadless version of the contemporary Nitto bullmoose 
bar/stem that's on the RBW website specifies that the finish on the 
fillet-brazed version is a dull bright nickel-plated finish over the CrMo 
steel.  This is the version that I have on the Bombadil pictured above.  
The fillet brazing on bicycle frames or bar/stems or racks, etc, results in 
a smooth finish that makes one tube seemingly flow into the other.  If the 
resulting creation is left unfinished/un-plated, the brass "bead" is 
typically visible encasing the fitted joint between the two tubes.  But on 
this plated bar/stem, the fillet-brazed joint is covered up by the plating 
and the brass is not visible.  Were it a tig-welded joint, the bead would 
usually be basically the same color as the adjoining tubes and it would 
also have some degree of texture from the welding process that sort of 
resembles a stack of dimes or a segmented worm (for lack of a better 
analogy).  How much texture (and how neat and how uniform) there is depends 
a great deal on the skill of the welder and whether there was any finishing 
work after the welding to dress up the joint.

I'm certainly no expert on such things but I do have several fillet-brazed 
bicycles currently.  If anyone has more precise info than I mentioned 
above, please feel free to chime in with corrections.

Willet M.
Carbondale, CO

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 5:48:36 PM UTC-6 Matthew P wrote:

> Hi Dorothy,
> I think mine is the fillet version because of the big broad weld. I think 
> TIG welds have far less material in the joints, but I could be wrong.
> Here on the fillet version product page:
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/collections/handlebars/products/nitto-bullmoose-bar-dull-bright-fillet-brazed-150mm-16194
> it looks like there are two versions of the fillet...version: one showing 
> the fillet brazing and another that must have a layer on top of it.
> Or, something else, which is likely, because, again, I don't know this 
> stuff well. Did they chrome(ish) dip some of them?
> Perhaps material for another post/thread...or maybe there already was one.
> Sorry for the thread drift.
> -Matthew
> San Diego
>
> On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 3:47:52 PM UTC-7 Dorothy C wrote:
>
>> Matthew, Riv have done two versions of their Bullmoose bar - a TIG welded 
>> (which I have) and the fillet brazed which definitely shows the beautiful 
>> brass tone round the joints. Is it possible you have the TIG version?
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7 Matthew P wrote:
>>
>>> Awesome bike. I like salmon-y paint. I'm in the "I like Bombadils and 
>>> Hunqs and any other Riv that fits 2" wide tires but I've only ridden an 
>>> Atlantis" club.
>>> I'm almost done with my Toyo Atlantis. One of my most desired bikes. 
>>> Lucky to score it from Karl on this list.
>>> Thank you for the details on the fender work. Impressive, and a 
>>> reference. I fear tackling such a job, as it seems like one shot and I 
>>> doubt I'd hit the nail on the head.
>>> I have a Riv bullmoose bar. It doesn't show the fillet brazing. I wish 
>>> it did. But its under there. I assume there is no logical way to remove a 
>>> layer or something to let it show.
>>> Thanks for sharing.
>>> -Matthew
>>> San Diego, CA
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 7:19:50 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 51cm gray/kidney bean Hunq for me, which makes *no *sense because my 
 custom has a brighter version of that paintjob and does every single thing 
 a Hunqapillar would do. I want one anyway! 藍



 On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 6:10:15 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Willet - oh wow, glad I could be of help! Other than misleading you 
> into thinking the 65's would fit, now you're a cautionary tale for me if 
> I 
> ever need to replace my fenders haha.. 
>
> Chris - Ha, I feel that way about the 53cm 650B Hunq.. I guess the 
> grass is always greener!
>
> On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 5:03 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Those fenders actually made it into the final build based on a 
>> suggestion that you (Jason) gave me many months ago as I was 
>> contemplating 
>> which direction to go with the frameset.  I eventually decided to go 
>> "all 
>> silver" or as close to it as I could possibly get, and the Flat 65's 
>> from 
>> Simworks were a good match for the 29x2.1 tires that I was planning on 
>> using.  They ended up being perfect for the tires, and they didn't take 
>> up 
>> much room vertically either.  But both front and back fenders were too 
>> wide 
>> for the fork blades and seat stays, so I did have to notch them pretty 
>> significantly and then try to keep the notches aligned as I mounted 
>> hardware to the fenders and then the fenders to the frame.  Somewhat 
>> shockingly, the notches fit so closely and line up 

[RBW] Re: Have you ever considered trading in your Sam for an Appaloosa?

[JP]

89. pbh 185lb 46ish 

I have a 10 year old or so 60cm sam with albatross and a high high double 
in the front.  I have recently lowered the front stem to get in a more 
roadish posture and it seems to balance the weight better front to back for 
me?

I bought a 2021 appaloosa 57cm with tosco cliffhanger shikoro.  Haven't 
received it yet.   I bought the Joe based on loving the length of my 
brothers MIT 62cm atlantis - also i felt my dad's 63cm homer always felt 
nice even though it's supposed to be similar geometry to the sam.  

I am pretty sure would sell the sam but it doesn't seem like i'd get even 
1250 or so and my people want me to keep it at that "market value."

I am a casual rider and do not expect to carry camping gear nor to club 
ride.  But i would like to cruise up mt diablo (i've never ridden up all 
the way) would a roadish bike make the goal easier?  I don't know but don't 
expect so.  Otherwise i am not certain what more bikes would add even 
though i would buy another if i could find a "reason."



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[RBW] Re: Mini Moto Max Tire

[CoalTrain]

Thanks for the follow up on the tire size. Eric, it's actually a British 
green Brooks but 10 years of butt sweat has taken its toll.

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 10:09:04 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Oh, and yeah, nice looking Platypus there. I love the black B17 special 
> with the limeolive paint :) 
>
> On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 11:07:53 AM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Will recently posted some pictures of a Platypus with Mini Motos 
>>  and 44mm 
>> Rene Herse tires. This is pretty close as far as clearance, Clarence! 
>>
>> [image: 0.jpg]
>> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:32:48 PM UTC-4 Bones wrote:
>>
>>> Nice lookin bike; looks fun to ride. You definitely need some bigger 
>>> tires though! I once tossed some Mini Motos on my Appaloosa with 50cm 
>>> Cazaderos. There was about 2mm between the brake wire and the tire. I was 
>>> not cool with that. Maybe a 48mm slick would be ok, but I'd guess that's 
>>> about the limit.
>>>
>>> Bones
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:03:53 PM UTC-4 CoalTrain wrote:
>>>
 Hi RBW! I've thrown some bits on the Platypus and so far really love 
 this thing. The ride is about the same as the Cheviot I owned but seems a 
 little sportier since I'm using wavie bars instead of albatross. I need to 
 get a proper set of shoes and am curious for those running Mini Motos with 
 a 700c wheel what the largest size they've been able to squeeze in without 
 fenders? 

 [image: IMG_6958.jpg]

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

['Tom M' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Amortize the cost: $3600 / 10 years = ~$360 / year = $30 / month = ~$1 / 
day = low price for happiness.
Tom 
Alexandria, VA 

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 8:30:09 PM UTC-4 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> "Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a bike and that's pretty 
> close." - Mike M
>
> I'm going to use this line!
>
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 1:41:42 PM UTC-7 velomann wrote:
>
>> There are so many possible comebacks...
>>
>> As others have pointed out, f you're not a bike person, that world is a 
>> different planet for you, as evidenced by transportation planners and 
>> politicians who can't see beyond bikes as toys that some adults apparently 
>> haven't outgrown.
>>
>> I realize this doesn't apply universally, but for me if I felt the need 
>> to justify the costs (I don't), it would go something like this. there's 
>> four of us living in our home and we've chosen to own one car. I ride 
>> everywhere. AAA estimates the cost of owning a car (NOT counting the 
>> purchase price) at about $800/month, which includes insurance, fuel, 
>> maintenance, depreciation, licensing, etc. And that does not count the 
>> health care cost incurred by people who live a sedentary lifestyle. I'm 61 
>> years old, weigh the same as I did 30 years ago, my resting heart rate is 
>> in the low 50s, and I spent zero on prescription drugs last year. It's not 
>> all about the bike, but a lot of it is. And every time I ride I smile. 
>> Every. Time. Which from what I can see is not the experience of most of the 
>> drivers around me.
>> Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a bike and that's pretty close.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 8:12:57 PM UTC-7 Kushan wrote:
>>
>>> Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each 
>>> other nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her 
>>> something she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher 
>>> value than the bike). 
>>>
>>> We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can 
>>> afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who 
>>> hear about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me. 
>>> While no one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the 
>>> reactions on the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment. 
>>> And these are from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that 
>>> I only have one bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one 
>>> arrives.
>>>
>>> So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced 
>>> this. What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you 
>>> say to a well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a 
>>> bike?" and "but isn't your current bike orange too?"
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Comebacks for when people think your bikes cost too much

[Clark Fitzgerald]

"Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a bike and that's pretty close." 
- Mike M

I'm going to use this line!

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 1:41:42 PM UTC-7 velomann wrote:

> There are so many possible comebacks...
>
> As others have pointed out, f you're not a bike person, that world is a 
> different planet for you, as evidenced by transportation planners and 
> politicians who can't see beyond bikes as toys that some adults apparently 
> haven't outgrown.
>
> I realize this doesn't apply universally, but for me if I felt the need to 
> justify the costs (I don't), it would go something like this. there's four 
> of us living in our home and we've chosen to own one car. I ride 
> everywhere. AAA estimates the cost of owning a car (NOT counting the 
> purchase price) at about $800/month, which includes insurance, fuel, 
> maintenance, depreciation, licensing, etc. And that does not count the 
> health care cost incurred by people who live a sedentary lifestyle. I'm 61 
> years old, weigh the same as I did 30 years ago, my resting heart rate is 
> in the low 50s, and I spent zero on prescription drugs last year. It's not 
> all about the bike, but a lot of it is. And every time I ride I smile. 
> Every. Time. Which from what I can see is not the experience of most of the 
> drivers around me.
> Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy a bike and that's pretty close.
>
> Mike M
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 8:12:57 PM UTC-7 Kushan wrote:
>
>> Wife and recently marked the 10th anniversary and decided to get each 
>> other nice presents. She is getting me an Appaloosa built and I got her 
>> something she really wanted in the jewelry department (of 20-30% higher 
>> value than the bike). 
>>
>> We are both financially responsible people, don't live lavishly, and can 
>> afford both items. However, the reactions of the friends and family who 
>> hear about our gifts and their values have been somewhat puzzling for me. 
>> While no one has given a second thought to the price of the jewelry, the 
>> reactions on the bike have almost universally been that of astonishment. 
>> And these are from people who know me well, know I enjoy cycling, and that 
>> I only have one bike right now which I am planning to sell when the new one 
>> arrives.
>>
>> So that got me thinking, I can't be the only one who has experienced 
>> this. What are some other similar stories? More importantly, what do you 
>> say to a well-meaning loved one when they ask things like "$3500 for a 
>> bike?" and "but isn't your current bike orange too?"
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: a worthy Bombadil is back on the road at long last...

[Matthew P]

Hi Dorothy,
I think mine is the fillet version because of the big broad weld. I think 
TIG welds have far less material in the joints, but I could be wrong.
Here on the fillet version product page:
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/handlebars/products/nitto-bullmoose-bar-dull-bright-fillet-brazed-150mm-16194
it looks like there are two versions of the fillet...version: one showing 
the fillet brazing and another that must have a layer on top of it.
Or, something else, which is likely, because, again, I don't know this 
stuff well. Did they chrome(ish) dip some of them?
Perhaps material for another post/thread...or maybe there already was one.
Sorry for the thread drift.
-Matthew
San Diego

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 3:47:52 PM UTC-7 Dorothy C wrote:

> Matthew, Riv have done two versions of their Bullmoose bar - a TIG welded 
> (which I have) and the fillet brazed which definitely shows the beautiful 
> brass tone round the joints. Is it possible you have the TIG version?
>
> On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7 Matthew P wrote:
>
>> Awesome bike. I like salmon-y paint. I'm in the "I like Bombadils and 
>> Hunqs and any other Riv that fits 2" wide tires but I've only ridden an 
>> Atlantis" club.
>> I'm almost done with my Toyo Atlantis. One of my most desired bikes. 
>> Lucky to score it from Karl on this list.
>> Thank you for the details on the fender work. Impressive, and a 
>> reference. I fear tackling such a job, as it seems like one shot and I 
>> doubt I'd hit the nail on the head.
>> I have a Riv bullmoose bar. It doesn't show the fillet brazing. I wish it 
>> did. But its under there. I assume there is no logical way to remove a 
>> layer or something to let it show.
>> Thanks for sharing.
>> -Matthew
>> San Diego, CA
>>
>> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 7:19:50 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> 51cm gray/kidney bean Hunq for me, which makes *no *sense because my 
>>> custom has a brighter version of that paintjob and does every single thing 
>>> a Hunqapillar would do. I want one anyway! 藍
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 6:10:15 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Willet - oh wow, glad I could be of help! Other than misleading you 
 into thinking the 65's would fit, now you're a cautionary tale for me if I 
 ever need to replace my fenders haha.. 

 Chris - Ha, I feel that way about the 53cm 650B Hunq.. I guess the 
 grass is always greener!

 On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 5:03 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
 rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>
> Those fenders actually made it into the final build based on a 
> suggestion that you (Jason) gave me many months ago as I was 
> contemplating 
> which direction to go with the frameset.  I eventually decided to go "all 
> silver" or as close to it as I could possibly get, and the Flat 65's from 
> Simworks were a good match for the 29x2.1 tires that I was planning on 
> using.  They ended up being perfect for the tires, and they didn't take 
> up 
> much room vertically either.  But both front and back fenders were too 
> wide 
> for the fork blades and seat stays, so I did have to notch them pretty 
> significantly and then try to keep the notches aligned as I mounted 
> hardware to the fenders and then the fenders to the frame.  Somewhat 
> shockingly, the notches fit so closely and line up so perfectly that it's 
> hard to tell they've been modified without shining a flashlight on it.  
>
> At $167 shipped for the fenders, I was HIGHLY motivated to get it 
> right the first time!
>
> Thanks again for your helpful suggestions over the winter.  I still 
> have the Proto-Bombadil built up and it fits my short-legs-long-torso 
> dimensions better than this one does (mostly due to a different bar/stem 
> choice).  So this one is for Show and the Protovelo is for Go.  I 
> couldn't 
> be happier or more proud of both, as they were bucket list items for a 
> number of years before I somehow lucked into getting both of them as 
> framesets within less than a year of each other.
>
> Willet M.
>
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:42:31 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Wow, that thing is gorgeous.  Nice build!!  I love the unique color. 
>> Looks salmon to me. Still undecided whether I'll invest in a paintjob 
>> for 
>> mine!  And yeah I wouldn't have even considered the threadless bullmoose 
>> despite being well aware of the existence of said adapter, and it looks 
>> as 
>> clean as a quill version would have.  
>>
>> On Sunday, 27 June 2021 at 20:05:37 UTC-7 WilletM wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm happy to report that the 
>>> non-creamsicle-but-still-pretty-dang-orange-y Bombadil frame that I 
>>> bought 
>>> here last September from Jamison B. is all built up and ready to do a 
>>> little Bombadilling 

Re: [RBW] Re: a worthy Bombadil is back on the road at long last...

[Dorothy C]

Matthew, Riv have done two versions of their Bullmoose bar - a TIG welded 
(which I have) and the fillet brazed which definitely shows the beautiful 
brass tone round the joints. Is it possible you have the TIG version?

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 2:42:23 PM UTC-7 Matthew P wrote:

> Awesome bike. I like salmon-y paint. I'm in the "I like Bombadils and 
> Hunqs and any other Riv that fits 2" wide tires but I've only ridden an 
> Atlantis" club.
> I'm almost done with my Toyo Atlantis. One of my most desired bikes. Lucky 
> to score it from Karl on this list.
> Thank you for the details on the fender work. Impressive, and a reference. 
> I fear tackling such a job, as it seems like one shot and I doubt I'd hit 
> the nail on the head.
> I have a Riv bullmoose bar. It doesn't show the fillet brazing. I wish it 
> did. But its under there. I assume there is no logical way to remove a 
> layer or something to let it show.
> Thanks for sharing.
> -Matthew
> San Diego, CA
>
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 7:19:50 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> 51cm gray/kidney bean Hunq for me, which makes *no *sense because my 
>> custom has a brighter version of that paintjob and does every single thing 
>> a Hunqapillar would do. I want one anyway! 藍
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 6:10:15 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Willet - oh wow, glad I could be of help! Other than misleading you into 
>>> thinking the 65's would fit, now you're a cautionary tale for me if I ever 
>>> need to replace my fenders haha.. 
>>>
>>> Chris - Ha, I feel that way about the 53cm 650B Hunq.. I guess the grass 
>>> is always greener!
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 5:03 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>

 Those fenders actually made it into the final build based on a 
 suggestion that you (Jason) gave me many months ago as I was contemplating 
 which direction to go with the frameset.  I eventually decided to go "all 
 silver" or as close to it as I could possibly get, and the Flat 65's from 
 Simworks were a good match for the 29x2.1 tires that I was planning on 
 using.  They ended up being perfect for the tires, and they didn't take up 
 much room vertically either.  But both front and back fenders were too 
 wide 
 for the fork blades and seat stays, so I did have to notch them pretty 
 significantly and then try to keep the notches aligned as I mounted 
 hardware to the fenders and then the fenders to the frame.  Somewhat 
 shockingly, the notches fit so closely and line up so perfectly that it's 
 hard to tell they've been modified without shining a flashlight on it.  

 At $167 shipped for the fenders, I was HIGHLY motivated to get it right 
 the first time!

 Thanks again for your helpful suggestions over the winter.  I still 
 have the Proto-Bombadil built up and it fits my short-legs-long-torso 
 dimensions better than this one does (mostly due to a different bar/stem 
 choice).  So this one is for Show and the Protovelo is for Go.  I couldn't 
 be happier or more proud of both, as they were bucket list items for a 
 number of years before I somehow lucked into getting both of them as 
 framesets within less than a year of each other.

 Willet M.

 On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:42:31 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Wow, that thing is gorgeous.  Nice build!!  I love the unique color. 
> Looks salmon to me. Still undecided whether I'll invest in a paintjob for 
> mine!  And yeah I wouldn't have even considered the threadless bullmoose 
> despite being well aware of the existence of said adapter, and it looks 
> as 
> clean as a quill version would have.  
>
> On Sunday, 27 June 2021 at 20:05:37 UTC-7 WilletM wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm happy to report that the 
>> non-creamsicle-but-still-pretty-dang-orange-y Bombadil frame that I 
>> bought 
>> here last September from Jamison B. is all built up and ready to do a 
>> little Bombadilling (thanks for that, Jason!) in the Rocky Mountains of 
>> western Colorado.  Though it's destined to be more of a show pony than a 
>> workhorse like Jason's rig, I did do a fairly premium build on this one 
>> that I'm sure would hold up for rigorous off-roading or even moderate 
>> bikepacking if only my legs were a little longer.  
>>
>> Particularly noteworthy on this build are the lovely 
>> fillet-and-nickel Nitto bullmoose bars, which turned out a lot better 
>> than 
>> I was expecting given that I used a quill-to-threadless adapter to mate 
>> the 
>> 1" threaded steerer to the 1 1/8" threadless bar/stem combo.  I also 
>> ended 
>> up pretty thrilled with the wheelset, which Peter White built up with 
>> custom Velocity Cliffhangers (silver anodized with machined sidewalls) 
>> laced up to a polished Phil 

Re: [RBW] Re: a worthy Bombadil is back on the road at long last...

[Matthew P]

Awesome bike. I like salmon-y paint. I'm in the "I like Bombadils and Hunqs 
and any other Riv that fits 2" wide tires but I've only ridden an Atlantis" 
club.
I'm almost done with my Toyo Atlantis. One of my most desired bikes. Lucky 
to score it from Karl on this list.
Thank you for the details on the fender work. Impressive, and a reference. 
I fear tackling such a job, as it seems like one shot and I doubt I'd hit 
the nail on the head.
I have a Riv bullmoose bar. It doesn't show the fillet brazing. I wish it 
did. But its under there. I assume there is no logical way to remove a 
layer or something to let it show.
Thanks for sharing.
-Matthew
San Diego, CA

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 7:19:50 PM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> 51cm gray/kidney bean Hunq for me, which makes *no *sense because my 
> custom has a brighter version of that paintjob and does every single thing 
> a Hunqapillar would do. I want one anyway! 藍
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 6:10:15 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Willet - oh wow, glad I could be of help! Other than misleading you into 
>> thinking the 65's would fit, now you're a cautionary tale for me if I ever 
>> need to replace my fenders haha.. 
>>
>> Chris - Ha, I feel that way about the 53cm 650B Hunq.. I guess the grass 
>> is always greener!
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 5:03 PM 'WilletM' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Those fenders actually made it into the final build based on a 
>>> suggestion that you (Jason) gave me many months ago as I was contemplating 
>>> which direction to go with the frameset.  I eventually decided to go "all 
>>> silver" or as close to it as I could possibly get, and the Flat 65's from 
>>> Simworks were a good match for the 29x2.1 tires that I was planning on 
>>> using.  They ended up being perfect for the tires, and they didn't take up 
>>> much room vertically either.  But both front and back fenders were too wide 
>>> for the fork blades and seat stays, so I did have to notch them pretty 
>>> significantly and then try to keep the notches aligned as I mounted 
>>> hardware to the fenders and then the fenders to the frame.  Somewhat 
>>> shockingly, the notches fit so closely and line up so perfectly that it's 
>>> hard to tell they've been modified without shining a flashlight on it.  
>>>
>>> At $167 shipped for the fenders, I was HIGHLY motivated to get it right 
>>> the first time!
>>>
>>> Thanks again for your helpful suggestions over the winter.  I still have 
>>> the Proto-Bombadil built up and it fits my short-legs-long-torso dimensions 
>>> better than this one does (mostly due to a different bar/stem choice).  So 
>>> this one is for Show and the Protovelo is for Go.  I couldn't be happier or 
>>> more proud of both, as they were bucket list items for a number of years 
>>> before I somehow lucked into getting both of them as framesets within less 
>>> than a year of each other.
>>>
>>> Willet M.
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:42:31 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Wow, that thing is gorgeous.  Nice build!!  I love the unique color. 
 Looks salmon to me. Still undecided whether I'll invest in a paintjob for 
 mine!  And yeah I wouldn't have even considered the threadless bullmoose 
 despite being well aware of the existence of said adapter, and it looks as 
 clean as a quill version would have.  

 On Sunday, 27 June 2021 at 20:05:37 UTC-7 WilletM wrote:

>
> I'm happy to report that the 
> non-creamsicle-but-still-pretty-dang-orange-y Bombadil frame that I 
> bought 
> here last September from Jamison B. is all built up and ready to do a 
> little Bombadilling (thanks for that, Jason!) in the Rocky Mountains of 
> western Colorado.  Though it's destined to be more of a show pony than a 
> workhorse like Jason's rig, I did do a fairly premium build on this one 
> that I'm sure would hold up for rigorous off-roading or even moderate 
> bikepacking if only my legs were a little longer.  
>
> Particularly noteworthy on this build are the lovely fillet-and-nickel 
> Nitto bullmoose bars, which turned out a lot better than I was expecting 
> given that I used a quill-to-threadless adapter to mate the 1" threaded 
> steerer to the 1 1/8" threadless bar/stem combo.  I also ended up pretty 
> thrilled with the wheelset, which Peter White built up with custom 
> Velocity 
> Cliffhangers (silver anodized with machined sidewalls) laced up to a 
> polished Phil Wood cassette hub in back and a special "Peter White 
> Cycles" 
> edition SONdelux Wide Body dynamo hub up front.  Other parts include 
> Sugino 
> cranks and seatpost, Brooks Alpe D'Huez saddle, Schmidt Edelux2 
> headlight, 
> SimWorks/Honjo fenders, Paul Neo-Retro's and Love Levers, etc, etc.  It 
> was 
> NOT, very frankly, an inexpensive build.
>
> On the bright side, it did 

[RBW] Re: FS Saddle Sack Medium with kangaroo pouch $150 plus shippng

[Tom Palmer]

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 4:43:41 PM UTC-4 Tom Palmer wrote:

> Hi all,
> Very light beusage in olive. The kangaroo pouch was never used, the bag 
> maybe 3 times. 
> If you prefer to call or text- 31-2 zero 6 53 zero 6
> Tom Palmer
> Twin Lake, MI
>

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[RBW] Re: Have you ever considered trading in your Sam for an Appaloosa?

[Erik]

Good point!  Based on my experience, my size / weight, and my riding 
environment, the Appaloosa would be the winner if I had to choose between 
the two.  It has a wider range of uses for me.  

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 11:23:28 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Several have answered with keeping both bikes, which I don't think is an 
> option presented to us for this thread. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Have you ever considered trading in your Sam for an Appaloosa?

[Joe Bernard]

Several have answered with keeping both bikes, which I don't think is an 
option presented to us for this thread. 

Joe Bernard

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 2:30:58 PM UTC-7 Damien wrote:

> So here's the situation. I've got a super hot lead on an orange 51 
> Appaloosa, but I'm already deep in it with a sage 51 canti Sam. Initially, 
> when I was looking at these bikes, I was torn between the two. I ultimately 
> leaned Sam because at the time I liked the colour and it was more 
> available. Well, things change I guess! I'm more seriously entertaining a 
> move to the Appaloosa because:
>
>- Sweet long chainstays
>- Can carry more (?? Is this true??)
>- Will likely work better for me with upright bars (Sam felt too 
>cramped for me with Albas)
>- Better tire clearance for fattish knubblies or fatter tires + 
>fenderage
>
> What I would love to do here is tap the forum's collective wisdom to see 
> if the grass is really greener. Has anyone made the move from Sam to 
> Appaloosa, or vice versa? What were your feelings? What did you miss on the 
> old bike when you made the move? What did you love about the new bike that 
> the old bike couldn't live up to?
>
> I'm approaching this a bit more cautiously since I already regret selling 
> another Riv I owned (Roadini - my regret is well documented, I believe). 
> That said, I imagine I'll need to act fast to get the bike before someone 
> snags it. In a perfect world I'd keep both, but we all know the world isn't 
> perfect, and I do have to live within the very real constraints imposed 
> upon me by my lovely partner who for some reason isn't cool with me having 
> umpteen bikes.
>
> Anyways, enough of my incessant rambling. Thank you for reading and 
> helping to encourage my hobby of buying bikes then selling then replacing 
> then modifying then selling then replacing then buying then crying then 
> selling then complaining then... (and so on and so forth). 
>

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[RBW] Re: Mini Moto Max Tire

[Tim O. (Portland, OR)]

I couldn't fit a 48 with mini motos on the crust canti-bolt. I'd guess 
45ish is the max depending on your bike.

Tim

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 8:23:33 AM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> I just tried to put Mini Motos on my Appaloosa with 50mm Big Apple tires 
> and SKS fenders. It was not even close to fitting. I am sticking with 
> cantilevers on it for now because I don't want to take the fenders off. I 
> was kind of disappointed.
>
> Maybe if I step down to 45mm tires and no fenders, the brakes will work.
>
>
> m
>
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:03:53 PM UTC-4 CoalTrain wrote:
>
>> Hi RBW! I've thrown some bits on the Platypus and so far really love this 
>> thing. The ride is about the same as the Cheviot I owned but seems a little 
>> sportier since I'm using wavie bars instead of albatross. I need to get a 
>> proper set of shoes and am curious for those running Mini Motos with a 700c 
>> wheel what the largest size they've been able to squeeze in without 
>> fenders? 
>>
>> [image: IMG_6958.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] FS: Nitto cage, M12, Brooks B15

[Johnny Alien]

I have the following items for sale. All prices include shipping

1. Two Nitto bottle cages in good  shape.  $50 each or $90
2. M12 front rack with the hardware. $75 shipped
3. Brooks B15. Black.  Has some wear but still good condition. $70 shipped

Photos attached below

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[RBW] Re: Have you ever considered trading in your Sam for an Appaloosa?

[Collin A]

As others mentioned, get both.

Currently I have a Ritchey Outback that is setup very sportily (narrow 
drops, 40mm tires, 450mm chainstays) and a Joe Appaloosa that is slowly 
becoming more bikepacking-friendly and trail oriented (wide drops, 50mm 
knobby  tires, dynamo) after serving time as my road rambler (I still like 
wide drops over uprights, or I should say my 30 yr old body is OK with it 
for now).

My only point to add is that its a lot easier to run a smaller tire on a 
frame with big clearances than a bigger tire on a frame with tighter 
clearances, especially when the BB drop is the same. If you want to 
experiment in more dirt road/off road riding, the Joe would be your ticket.

Collin, cooler than PDX, in Sacramento

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 2:30:58 PM UTC-7 Damien wrote:

> So here's the situation. I've got a super hot lead on an orange 51 
> Appaloosa, but I'm already deep in it with a sage 51 canti Sam. Initially, 
> when I was looking at these bikes, I was torn between the two. I ultimately 
> leaned Sam because at the time I liked the colour and it was more 
> available. Well, things change I guess! I'm more seriously entertaining a 
> move to the Appaloosa because:
>
>- Sweet long chainstays
>- Can carry more (?? Is this true??)
>- Will likely work better for me with upright bars (Sam felt too 
>cramped for me with Albas)
>- Better tire clearance for fattish knubblies or fatter tires + 
>fenderage
>
> What I would love to do here is tap the forum's collective wisdom to see 
> if the grass is really greener. Has anyone made the move from Sam to 
> Appaloosa, or vice versa? What were your feelings? What did you miss on the 
> old bike when you made the move? What did you love about the new bike that 
> the old bike couldn't live up to?
>
> I'm approaching this a bit more cautiously since I already regret selling 
> another Riv I owned (Roadini - my regret is well documented, I believe). 
> That said, I imagine I'll need to act fast to get the bike before someone 
> snags it. In a perfect world I'd keep both, but we all know the world isn't 
> perfect, and I do have to live within the very real constraints imposed 
> upon me by my lovely partner who for some reason isn't cool with me having 
> umpteen bikes.
>
> Anyways, enough of my incessant rambling. Thank you for reading and 
> helping to encourage my hobby of buying bikes then selling then replacing 
> then modifying then selling then replacing then buying then crying then 
> selling then complaining then... (and so on and so forth). 
>

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[RBW] Re: Mini Moto Max Tire

[Michael Morrissey]

I just tried to put Mini Motos on my Appaloosa with 50mm Big Apple tires 
and SKS fenders. It was not even close to fitting. I am sticking with 
cantilevers on it for now because I don't want to take the fenders off. I 
was kind of disappointed.

Maybe if I step down to 45mm tires and no fenders, the brakes will work.


m

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:03:53 PM UTC-4 CoalTrain wrote:

> Hi RBW! I've thrown some bits on the Platypus and so far really love this 
> thing. The ride is about the same as the Cheviot I owned but seems a little 
> sportier since I'm using wavie bars instead of albatross. I need to get a 
> proper set of shoes and am curious for those running Mini Motos with a 700c 
> wheel what the largest size they've been able to squeeze in without 
> fenders? 
>
> [image: IMG_6958.jpg]
>

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[RBW] Re: Mini Moto Max Tire

[Eric Marth]

Oh, and yeah, nice looking Platypus there. I love the black B17 special 
with the limeolive paint :) 

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 11:07:53 AM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote:

> Will recently posted some pictures of a Platypus with Mini Motos 
>  and 44mm Rene 
> Herse tires. This is pretty close as far as clearance, Clarence! 
>
> [image: 0.jpg]
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:32:48 PM UTC-4 Bones wrote:
>
>> Nice lookin bike; looks fun to ride. You definitely need some bigger 
>> tires though! I once tossed some Mini Motos on my Appaloosa with 50cm 
>> Cazaderos. There was about 2mm between the brake wire and the tire. I was 
>> not cool with that. Maybe a 48mm slick would be ok, but I'd guess that's 
>> about the limit.
>>
>> Bones
>>
>> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:03:53 PM UTC-4 CoalTrain wrote:
>>
>>> Hi RBW! I've thrown some bits on the Platypus and so far really love 
>>> this thing. The ride is about the same as the Cheviot I owned but seems a 
>>> little sportier since I'm using wavie bars instead of albatross. I need to 
>>> get a proper set of shoes and am curious for those running Mini Motos with 
>>> a 700c wheel what the largest size they've been able to squeeze in without 
>>> fenders? 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_6958.jpg]
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Mini Moto Max Tire

[Eric Marth]

Will recently posted some pictures of a Platypus with Mini Motos 
 and 44mm Rene 
Herse tires. This is pretty close as far as clearance, Clarence! 

[image: 0.jpg]
On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:32:48 PM UTC-4 Bones wrote:

> Nice lookin bike; looks fun to ride. You definitely need some bigger tires 
> though! I once tossed some Mini Motos on my Appaloosa with 50cm Cazaderos. 
> There was about 2mm between the brake wire and the tire. I was not cool 
> with that. Maybe a 48mm slick would be ok, but I'd guess that's about the 
> limit.
>
> Bones
>
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:03:53 PM UTC-4 CoalTrain wrote:
>
>> Hi RBW! I've thrown some bits on the Platypus and so far really love this 
>> thing. The ride is about the same as the Cheviot I owned but seems a little 
>> sportier since I'm using wavie bars instead of albatross. I need to get a 
>> proper set of shoes and am curious for those running Mini Motos with a 700c 
>> wheel what the largest size they've been able to squeeze in without 
>> fenders? 
>>
>> [image: IMG_6958.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Have you ever considered trading in your Sam for an Appaloosa?

[Eric Marth]

I like what Bill said: keep both but set them up with different bars and 
tires. If that's a stretch perhaps you could snag the Appaloosa frame now 
and then gradually acquire parts as it's practical. I can't think of a 
better combination than an orange Appaloosa and a sage Sam Hillborne. 

Joe also has a good point, if you have a strong preference just go with it. 

Did you determine that the Sam felt too cramped with Albatross bars after 
trying longer stems? 

On Tuesday, June 29, 2021 at 2:29:35 AM UTC-4 Ed Carolipio wrote:

> Hi Damien,
>
> I like Bill's response the best - get both - but as a former Appa owner 
> and having read discussions on these comparisons on the board, here's my 
> opinion on each of your points:
>
>- Sweet long chainstays - Likely not something you can sense - I think 
>chainstays are balanced with other parts of the geometry - but it helps 
>with heel clearance for rear panniers
>- Can carry more (?? Is this true??) - Sams easily can do "practical" 
>loads, like a commuter bag or some groceries. Appa and the Atlantis are 
> for 
>if you plan on hauling far more impractical loads. To be fair, the Appa 
> had 
>a talent for riding about the same no matter what I was hauling. Can't say 
>that for the Surly Troll I owned previously, which felt dead unloaded and 
>didn't come alive until it was absolutely loaded down.
>- Will likely work better for me with upright bars (Sam felt too 
>cramped for me with Albas) - Might be a discriminator. The Appa was ideal 
>for all sorts of swept back bars and had that wondrously expansive top 
>tube. That also made for a larger front triangle so, even at 51 cm, I 
> could 
>run carry a frame pump and run 24 oz bottles.
>- Better tire clearance for fattish knubblies or fatter tires + 
>fenderage - Published difference is 6mm. Probably only significant if you 
>want to run knobbies off-road, and even then it's just to increase your 
>tire choices (lots of options for knobbies at 27.5 x 2.1, though 
>manufacturers are offering more options at 650b x 48 for gravel) than the 
>extra volume.
>
> No regrets on selling the Appa since I replaced it with two Rivs (a Homer 
> and a GBW) to cover a broader usage spectrum without having to change over 
> the bike.
>
> --Ed C.
>
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 2:30:58 PM UTC-7 Damien wrote:
>
>> So here's the situation. I've got a super hot lead on an orange 51 
>> Appaloosa, but I'm already deep in it with a sage 51 canti Sam. Initially, 
>> when I was looking at these bikes, I was torn between the two. I ultimately 
>> leaned Sam because at the time I liked the colour and it was more 
>> available. Well, things change I guess! I'm more seriously entertaining a 
>> move to the Appaloosa because:
>>
>>- Sweet long chainstays
>>- Can carry more (?? Is this true??)
>>- Will likely work better for me with upright bars (Sam felt too 
>>cramped for me with Albas)
>>- Better tire clearance for fattish knubblies or fatter tires + 
>>fenderage
>>
>> What I would love to do here is tap the forum's collective wisdom to see 
>> if the grass is really greener. Has anyone made the move from Sam to 
>> Appaloosa, or vice versa? What were your feelings? What did you miss on the 
>> old bike when you made the move? What did you love about the new bike that 
>> the old bike couldn't live up to?
>>
>> I'm approaching this a bit more cautiously since I already regret selling 
>> another Riv I owned (Roadini - my regret is well documented, I believe). 
>> That said, I imagine I'll need to act fast to get the bike before someone 
>> snags it. In a perfect world I'd keep both, but we all know the world isn't 
>> perfect, and I do have to live within the very real constraints imposed 
>> upon me by my lovely partner who for some reason isn't cool with me having 
>> umpteen bikes.
>>
>> Anyways, enough of my incessant rambling. Thank you for reading and 
>> helping to encourage my hobby of buying bikes then selling then replacing 
>> then modifying then selling then replacing then buying then crying then 
>> selling then complaining then... (and so on and so forth). 
>>
>

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[RBW] For Sale: Riv Nitto Platrack and Sackville Platsack

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm selling a Nitto Platrack and matching Sackville Platsack combination.  
Newcomers won't know what this thing is, so I'll explain briefly

The Platrack is a Nitto tubular steel platform specifically designed to 
bolt to the top of your Marks Rack (M1) or your Mini Front Rack (32F).  The 
Platrack converts your smaller rack into a much larger platform.  The 
Platrack has its own pair of auxiliary struts, stiffening and strengthening 
the assembly.  

The Sackville Platsack is a bag designed specifically to attach to the 
Platrack.

I bought this Platrack/Platsack assembly from Riv in ~2013.  It has lived 
on my Hillborne, my Bombadil, and most recently on my wife's Yves Gomez.  
It's been used on several S24Os but almost exclusively was an 'event' 
setup.  The vast majority of its life has been spent on the shelf.  

So, if you already have a Mark's Rack -OR- a Mini Front Rack and want a way 
to massively expand its platform temporarily (or forever), this may be your 
thing.  If you are an old timer and have kicked yourself for missing out on 
this Rivendell exclusive, here's your chance again.  

The Platrack struts have been cut to the right length for an Yves Gomez, 
which is a 650B wheel with medium tires.  If your bike runs 700c wheels, 
you will almost certainly need to buy longer struts.  Some people have set 
up their Platrack to reach the mid-fork braze-ons, and if that is your 
strategy, these struts will be plenty long.  

$90 plus shipping for the Rack.  $110 plus shipping for the Bag.  $175 plus 
shipping for both the rack and the bag.  I want to sell them together, but 
if you are dying to buy one part and not the other, let me know.  If I can 
find a taker for each half then I will elect to split them up.

Pictures:

The Sack
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51278065903

Inside the Sack, with the Rack inside
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51277899571

Photo of how the Rack looks on the bike, mounted to a Mark's Rack
https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/51274568632

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Psychic Derailleur

['JRStern11' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I’m liking the orange more and more. Mine’s a 51 I bet Mark’s is larger.

Sent from ProtonMail for iOS

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 8:15 AM, Doug H.  wrote:

> Mark and Joel, just trade bikes and you're both happy!
> Doug
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:09:13 PM UTC-4 Mark Allen wrote:
>
>> Ha! I bought my Sam there in the fall of 2019, last one he had, black 
>> although at the time I would have preferred orange. Chris was super helpful 
>> in shipping the frame to Canada.
>> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:26:06 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>>
>>> I bought my Sam there last summer, last one he had, orange although at the 
>>> time I would have preferred black. I did not want to wait for Rivs next 
>>> delivery and no guaranty I would get one. Great bike, fast shipping and 
>>> good deal.
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 11:13:44 AM UTC-4 tsot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Thank you to everyone for all of the kind words, and thank you for 
 watching!!!

 On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 4:20:02 PM UTC-4 ezre...@gmail.com wrote:

> That's where I bought my Rivendell too! Truly the best bike shop in 
> Indianapolis. He's incredibly knowledgeable, and I too watch his YouTube 
> channel.
> Christine
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:40:55 PM UTC-6 antc...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> This is very timely for me since I just bought a 57 Appaloosa from Chris 
>> a few days ago (possibly the last one available anywhere.) I'm a long 
>> time Riv customer but this is my first Riv bike. Maybe we are seeing a 
>> cultural change in how people use bikes in this country? We can only 
>> hope I guess. I had no idea that Chris has a YouTube channel, I'm 
>> looking forward to seeing what other ideas he has to share.
>>
>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:14:16 PM UTC-5 dougP wrote:
>>
>>> I too subscribe to the Psychic Derailleur channel & find it fun & 
>>> informative. In a recent video he thanked his subscribers & said he 
>>> thinks he has the nicest comments section on youtube. He's big on 
>>> practical cycling & reviews bags, bikes, etc. Puts out a couple of 
>>> videos a week, usually less than 10 minutes & he stays focused on the 
>>> topic of the day. Great guy.
>>>
>>> dougP
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, June 23, 2021 at 9:22:07 PM UTC-7 cycli...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Chris Wiggins has a bike shop in Indianapolis, website and a YouTube 
 channel, all with the name The Psychic Derailleur. I'm a big fan of 
 his content and his message. He is a Rivendell dealer and he puts out 
 some great content on his YouTube channel. His latest video is titled 
 "The Rise of Rivendell?". It is worth a look, as are the rest of the 
 videos on his channel, IMHO.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjCwkCgKGnw
>
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[RBW] Re: The Psychic Derailleur

[Doug H.]

Mark and Joel, just trade bikes and you're both happy!
Doug

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:09:13 PM UTC-4 Mark Allen wrote:

>
> Ha! I bought my Sam there in the fall of 2019, last one he had, black 
> although at the time I would have preferred orange. Chris was super helpful 
> in shipping the frame to Canada.
> On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 11:26:06 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>
>> I bought my Sam there last summer, last one he had, orange although at 
>> the time I would have preferred black.  I did not want to wait for Rivs 
>> next delivery and no guaranty I would get one.  Great bike, fast shipping 
>> and good deal.  
>>
>> On Friday, June 25, 2021 at 11:13:44 AM UTC-4 tsot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you to everyone for all of the kind words, and thank you for 
>>> watching!!!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 4:20:02 PM UTC-4 ezre...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 That's where I bought my Rivendell too! Truly the best bike shop in 
 Indianapolis. He's incredibly knowledgeable, and I too watch his YouTube 
 channel. 
 Christine

 On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:40:55 PM UTC-6 antc...@gmail.com wrote:

> This is very timely for me since I just bought a 57 Appaloosa from 
> Chris a few days ago (possibly the last one available anywhere.) I'm a 
> long 
> time Riv customer but this is my first Riv bike. Maybe we are seeing a 
> cultural change in how people use bikes in this country? We can only hope 
> I 
> guess. I had no idea that Chris has a YouTube channel, I'm looking 
> forward 
> to seeing what other ideas he has to share.
>
>
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:14:16 PM UTC-5 dougP wrote:
>
>> I too subscribe to the Psychic Derailleur channel & find it fun & 
>> informative.  In a recent video he thanked his subscribers & said he 
>> thinks 
>> he has the nicest comments section on youtube.  He's big on practical 
>> cycling & reviews bags, bikes, etc.  Puts out a couple of videos a week, 
>> usually less than 10 minutes & he stays focused on the topic of the day. 
>>  
>> Great guy.  
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Wednesday, June 23, 2021 at 9:22:07 PM UTC-7 cycli...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Chris Wiggins has a bike shop in Indianapolis, website and a YouTube 
>>> channel, all with the name The Psychic Derailleur.  I'm a big fan of 
>>> his 
>>> content and his message.  He is a Rivendell dealer and he puts out some 
>>> great content on his YouTube channel.  His latest video is titled "The 
>>> Rise 
>>> of Rivendell?".  It is worth a look, as are the rest of the videos on 
>>> his 
>>> channel, IMHO.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjCwkCgKGnw
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Have you ever considered trading in your Sam for an Appaloosa?

[Ed Carolipio]

Hi Damien,

I like Bill's response the best - get both - but as a former Appa owner and 
having read discussions on these comparisons on the board, here's my 
opinion on each of your points:

   - Sweet long chainstays - Likely not something you can sense - I think 
   chainstays are balanced with other parts of the geometry - but it helps 
   with heel clearance for rear panniers
   - Can carry more (?? Is this true??) - Sams easily can do "practical" 
   loads, like a commuter bag or some groceries. Appa and the Atlantis are for 
   if you plan on hauling far more impractical loads. To be fair, the Appa had 
   a talent for riding about the same no matter what I was hauling. Can't say 
   that for the Surly Troll I owned previously, which felt dead unloaded and 
   didn't come alive until it was absolutely loaded down.
   - Will likely work better for me with upright bars (Sam felt too cramped 
   for me with Albas) - Might be a discriminator. The Appa was ideal for all 
   sorts of swept back bars and had that wondrously expansive top tube. That 
   also made for a larger front triangle so, even at 51 cm, I could run carry 
   a frame pump and run 24 oz bottles.
   - Better tire clearance for fattish knubblies or fatter tires + 
   fenderage - Published difference is 6mm. Probably only significant if you 
   want to run knobbies off-road, and even then it's just to increase your 
   tire choices (lots of options for knobbies at 27.5 x 2.1, though 
   manufacturers are offering more options at 650b x 48 for gravel) than the 
   extra volume.

No regrets on selling the Appa since I replaced it with two Rivs (a Homer 
and a GBW) to cover a broader usage spectrum without having to change over 
the bike.

--Ed C.

On Monday, June 28, 2021 at 2:30:58 PM UTC-7 Damien wrote:

> So here's the situation. I've got a super hot lead on an orange 51 
> Appaloosa, but I'm already deep in it with a sage 51 canti Sam. Initially, 
> when I was looking at these bikes, I was torn between the two. I ultimately 
> leaned Sam because at the time I liked the colour and it was more 
> available. Well, things change I guess! I'm more seriously entertaining a 
> move to the Appaloosa because:
>
>- Sweet long chainstays
>- Can carry more (?? Is this true??)
>- Will likely work better for me with upright bars (Sam felt too 
>cramped for me with Albas)
>- Better tire clearance for fattish knubblies or fatter tires + 
>fenderage
>
> What I would love to do here is tap the forum's collective wisdom to see 
> if the grass is really greener. Has anyone made the move from Sam to 
> Appaloosa, or vice versa? What were your feelings? What did you miss on the 
> old bike when you made the move? What did you love about the new bike that 
> the old bike couldn't live up to?
>
> I'm approaching this a bit more cautiously since I already regret selling 
> another Riv I owned (Roadini - my regret is well documented, I believe). 
> That said, I imagine I'll need to act fast to get the bike before someone 
> snags it. In a perfect world I'd keep both, but we all know the world isn't 
> perfect, and I do have to live within the very real constraints imposed 
> upon me by my lovely partner who for some reason isn't cool with me having 
> umpteen bikes.
>
> Anyways, enough of my incessant rambling. Thank you for reading and 
> helping to encourage my hobby of buying bikes then selling then replacing 
> then modifying then selling then replacing then buying then crying then 
> selling then complaining then... (and so on and so forth). 
>

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