[RBW] Re: Night riding

[Bones]

I too commute year-round and I ride primarily at night. I work evenings and 
nights and commute via bicycle, and I've been doing so for about ten years 
so I'll add some safety tips. I took a pretty nasty midnight spill back in 
May. I took a right hand turn a bit too close to the curb and could not see 
the thin layer of gravel/sand on the street. It was pitch black, no cars 
around, I had a dynamo on the bike, and I was traveling at about 15mph. 
Still didn't see it. The bike went out from under me and I skid about 15ft. 
So lesson number one was to slow down on the turns and take 'em wide. The 
bike was almost completely unharmed, except for a minor scuff to the left 
grip and a lovely new red paint job, courtesy of my palms. Plenty of 
bruising and scrapes but mostly on my hands, which I suppose instinctively 
did their job. I went back the next day to collect the pieces of my apple 
watch, which did a fantastic job protecting my wrist. That was lesson 
number two: always wear gloves. After I got up and realized how bad it was 
I reached into my BananaSax and pulled out a bandana, which made a great 
tourniquet. I wish I had packed two though, as both palms were in very bad 
shape. Lesson number three: always pack a few bandanas.

I'm not adding this to discourage anyone from riding at night, I just hope 
other folks can learn from my mistakes. I love riding at night, especially 
late. Few cars, no sounds... it's a whole different world. Like Roberta 
stated: very stress relieving and soothing. *Especially* after work.

Bones

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 5:35:57 AM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:

> I like to separate the arms race of lumens and reflective area on my night 
> rides. They are slower, tend to last longer if I'm not on a to-bed schedule 
> for early wake up. Not so concerning after this weekend. I was at the dog 
> park with my pup and before I really took note of the sunset. 64° was 
> headed for the 40°s under the clear skies and I was in shorts, T-shirt and 
> a shell.
>
> I've reported on night rides around here before, where there are 
> definitely two cultures of dark riding. One that starts around the corner 
> from my house has been more of a Dirty Dozen Bike Race 
>  training ride and has been running three 
> sadomasochistic hours and thirty miles weekly. The other began with my 
> friend and me after the regular riding season meeting at that coffee shop 
> ended in October. We meander, we invite new to the dark riders, we go 
> places the high tempo riders skip for better paces and miles while they 
> train for the Dirty Dozen bike Race originated by ultra rider Danny Chew. 
> They all tend to be on their road racing bikes with battery lights. I have 
> evolved (over 25? years) to dyno hubs, wired LED head and taillights, 
> carrying a rechargeable set to back others up in case of a fail. Don't like 
> phantom bikes around me unless we're clustering around a rider who's 
> batteries died. A few of us continue into the bad weather, be it wet or 
> cold. It adds to the challenging character of night riding. Headlights 
> redefine a place you ride in the daylight, focussing on what's important 
> and redefining all else. 
>
> I like to include photo stops, curious passageways, local sights and 
> surprising connections. Food and drink often involved. Too hard for new 
> initiates to dark riding to grasp the fast cool of darkness mentioned by 
> Denis in NC and adequately provide for full spectrum physical output so we 
> try not to get too sweat soaked at any point although everyone's experience 
> (effort/perspiration) will vary on any given hill so accommodation is my 
> byword. I like to have a big enough bag on my bike to carry extra layers 
> ("normalizing" items for a restaurant) and a lock for stops.
>
> I commute year round and my days begin and end with my rides before 
> sunrise and after sunset for all but about three months and a week or so of 
> the year. I pedal each leg allowing myself to be amazed and let some 
> wonderment into my head. One neighborhood on my route has made quite a 
> resurgence in the fifteen years I've been pedaling through it. Businesses 
> have anchored, people have reason to be there and a core of artisans have 
> been promoting a "First Fridays" evening sidewalk festival for years now 
> with businesses open sidestreets marketplaces sprouted for the night adding 
> to the resident restaurants, coffee shops, a tea house and microbrewery. 
> Takes all the stress from work out of my head or clears it to begin another 
> day.  
>
> From rides past:
> Tuesday Night Ride 
> Another Tuesday Night Ride 
> Tuesday Night "Dark Roast" Ride 
> Burritos and Bikes Night Ride 
> 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 6:57:10 PM UTC-5 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Patrick Moore]

This is the sort of report -- there have been others -- that keeps the
Clem, despite my misgivings, on the "some day" list. Well described.

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:48 PM iamkeith  wrote:

> ... The Clem feels like a true Rivendell, with a low center of gravity,
> stable and instantly comfortable.  The steering is pretty quick - like a
> relaxed rivish road bike more than a mountain bike as I was expecting when
> I got it.  As a result, it was quite (most) enjoyable on pavement and at
> speed.  With the long wheelbase, it differed from a "regular" road bike in
> that I felt like every bit of effort translated to forward motion.  Kind of
> like a speed skate versus a hockey skate.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Patrick Moore]

Meandering off of this particular juxtaposition of thoughts: the frameset
was 1970s and French and light: I also have a Libertas frameset, tout 531
and Belgian and light; and I wonder if French-standard road-bike 531 tubing
back in the early '70s was particularly light, because I've had other 531
frames that didn't feel as light, at least when hefting them -- I never
went scientific and weighed them, except for the Libertas which, *at 60 c-c
X 56 c-c, with steel Campy headset!* weighs 5.9 lb on a digital scale. The
58 X 56.5 c-c 2003 Riv weighed (frame, fork, Ultegra cartridge headset): *7
lb!*

Back to Clems, light, heavy, or in-between.

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:38 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... 1973 racing frameset of really light standard gauge 531 -- I recall
> hefting it upon receipt, and being disappointed that it was so much lighter
> than my 2003 Riv frameset -- I wanted the nicer bike to be lighter.
>

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[RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[iamkeith]

I had a 59 Clem H from the first run, and now have a 56 Suzie.   In both 
cases, I'm pretty sure mine were the first frames pre-ordered from Riv. - I 
had followed the development closely and both spoke to me as being the 
perfect bike for what I wanted at the time, and I pulled the trigger the 
second they went live.   Here are some random, rambling thoughts and 
impressions.  Keep in mind as you read this that, although we'd ride the 
same size frame, we'd have entirely different experiences.  I'm about 4" 
taller than you (6'-2"), but have a shorter PBH (87). 

First things first:  They are very different bikes!  When I ordered the 
Susie, I thought it was going to mostly be a "perfected" version of the 
Clem, and that it would solve a couple of the minor but nagging complaints 
I had about the Clem (slightly too long of chainstays and too little 
standover clearance for trail/mountain use; too short of a top tube for a 
good fit; too flexy of a frame).  The Susie did rectify all of those 
things, but I was otherwise completely wrong about one being a direct 
replacement for the other - there are very few similarites.   I kick myself 
daily for getting rid of the Clem.  Not not because I liked it "more" than 
the Susie, but because I could have found a place for both in the quiver 
had I known how different they are, and had I known that almost none of the 
parts were transferable from one to the other - which meant that I had to 
re-purchase a lot of pieces that I hadn't intended to.  

In terms of ride/stability:  The Clem feels like a true Rivendell, with a 
low center of gravity, stable and instantly comfortable.  The steering is 
pretty quick - like a relaxed rivish road bike more than a mountain bike as 
I was expecting when I got it.  As a result, it was quite (most) enjoyable 
on pavement and at speed.  With the long wheelbase, it differed from a 
"regular" road bike in that I felt like every bit of effort translated to 
forward motion.  Kind of like a speed skate versus a hockey skate.  The 
Susie, on the other hand, has a very-noticably higher bottom bracket and, 
therefore, center of gravity.  It also has a more relaxed steering 
geometry.  So it feels like a lot of mountain bikes or off-road touring 
bikes, but without that distictive "rivendell" quality.  Less effort for 
slow-speed cruising around.  Even though the Susie is lighter gauge tubing 
(and lighter overall), it is less flexy than the Clem.  On rough trails or 
standing out of the pedals, I'd got shimmy on the Clem, as I felt the whole 
frame flex torsionally.  This is a guess, but I attribute part of the 
Susie's relative rigidity to the shaped chainstays that add better 
triangulation.  The clem's are arrow-straight.

In terms of "wieldy-ness,"  the Clem was definitely a chore to bring 
along.   I had to take the wheel off to fit it in the back of my pickup.  I 
don't need to do that with the Susie.   I don't live in an apartment or 
have to deal with stairs but, even if I did, I'd nonetheless gladly 
sacrifice a little convenience to own either bike.  Both are big but, 
having gotten used to them, I can't imagine ever buying a short bike again 
- at least for trails and town and day-to-day use.  I have a ton of bikes, 
but these are the ones I almost always grab.  (This is when I kick myself 
the most for getting rid of the Clem - it felt more like an extension of me 
than the Susie does.)  Unless your frame of reference is carbon fiber road 
race bikes, neither are heavy bikes by any stretch.  Even with full racks 
and fenders, I never think about the weight like i do with some of my bikes.

In terms of suitability for electrifying:  You're on you own... but Joe 
could probably help.  I see the Susie as my heirloom forever bike, and I 
can't imagine bolting a motor to it or adding stresses that might damage it 
- but that's me.  Personally, I'd get one of the cheap, heavy-duty Jones 
LWBs if I wanted to do this, or just get an off-the-shelf electric bike for 
less money.  

Fit-wise, the Susie has too much stack height for me, with the bars I 
stubbornly want to use (bullmoose bosco) and, though longer, is STILL not 
long enough in the top tube.  The Clem was marginal (almost too high) for 
stack height, but it worked.   If you're flexible with cockpit choice, this 
can of course be fixed, but I basically find the Susie to be more 
restrictive.  It even makes the steering a little too light for me, as I'm 
forced to be too upright and can't lean my weight forward enough.  In your 
case, with a shorter torso and longer legs, I'd suspect that you'll find 
the top tube lengths adequate, but the susie's stack height will be 
shockingly tall.   

I mentioned that my Clem H had a lot of flex - and mine even had the high 
top tube!   I can't imagine the L being stiff enough, for the way I like to 
throw a bike around.  And I understand the new ones are longer, wich should 
theoretically exacerbate the problem (remember the trouble 

[RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Joe Bernard]

I know, I skipped rims on my list. Fill in the blank! 

Joe "word skipper" Bernard

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 6:31:52 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Yep, the first weight weenie upgrade anyone should do to a bike is wheels 
> and tires. A that mass out there on the ends of the frame making big 
> circles is noticeable; the order is tires, tubes (or ditch them like Leah 
> did on her Platy), spokes, hubs. It's the business! 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 5:44:54 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> Interesting topic that I am enjoying while awaiting my in transit Clem L 
>> 52. They never offered a 55 so I think Laing meant 59. I really like the 
>> looks of the Clem L, more so than the Susie/Gus even, although they both 
>> are cool styles. I never thought much about the weight of a bicycle until I 
>> bought a Wabi single speed that was super light (19 pounds). But, I didn't 
>> really see much of a benefit to that light weight in real world riding. I 
>> do think at some point a bike can be too heavy and I can understand Leah 
>> getting a lighter weight wheelset for hers. I think Joe has written here 
>> somewhere about wheel weight being more noticeable than frame weight and 
>> that makes sense to me. So, I can't help with your decision Kiley but I'd 
>> say you can't go wrong either way.
>> Doug
>> Athens, Ga
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 6:27:32 PM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 52 Clementine, Large Gus (a heavy duty Susie), 60 Betty Foy. 
>>> The Clementine is by far the easiest to get on and off of, but requires the 
>>> longest stem to get the handlebars high enough. I should have gotten the 55 
>>> Clementine, but it was purchased partly with my girlfriend in mind, who has 
>>> now become my wife and appropriated the Betty Foy, because it is lighter 
>>> and mostly because she loves the red hearts in the blue frame lugs, the 
>>> seat barely clears the top of the seat tube, but she likes the bars up 
>>> high. The Clementine is getting a Crust Clydesdale fork with a long 
>>> threadless steerer and is likely to become my go-to bike once complete. 
>>> Note that I am 65 and overweight, so the step-through becomes more 
>>> important as time goes by. BUT, I also have a Medium Mountain Mixte Rosco 
>>> Bubbe, that is about 90% complete as well as a Rosco Baby that is also 90% 
>>> complete - searching for that perfect step-though!
>>>
>>> Laing
>>> Delray Beach FL
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 5:47:42 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Weight differences between Clem L and Susie: Right off the bat the 
 problem I have here is I didn't have both bikes at the same time so take 
 this for what it's worth (it's not worth much cuz who knows how good my 
 memory is on this??). I've owned a 52cm Clem L and 53cm Susie, both with 
 the the wheels that come on Clem completes, both with similar parts specs. 
 IMO the Susie is slightly lighter but not enough for it to be the decider 
 in which frame you pick. 

 Susie/Wolbis (no, I don't understand the names either) is a more 
 expensive frame with very nice fillet joints and a mid-high toptube, it's 
 probably going to be stiffer than a step-thru for the mountain biking-ish 
 mission it was designed for. This is also helpful for a later electric 
 conversion (Clem L's can get noodly with a motor), plus that higher 
 toptube 
 leaves room for a battery on the downtube. 

 Clem L (I still like the Clementine name better) is much cheaper new, 
 has perfectly acceptable TIG welds, and of course has that way-low toptube 
 (droptube is the moniker I'm trying make trend). And this is where I have 
 to shout out The Word According To Leah, especially as she's in this 
 thread: Droptubes are better! If you don't need the triangulation the 
 Susie 
 offers, Clem L wins hands down for ease of getting on and off, as well 
 sliding off to one foot at stops during the ride. And it's a very pretty 
 bicycle. 

 That's what I think! 

 Joe Bernard

 On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 2:07:52 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> I am not an expert, but I AM a Clem fan. To be fair, I’ve never ridden 
> a Gus/Susie, but (and don’t hate me, Gus and Susie fans) I’ve never 
> understood the allure of that bike. Looks and names and decals aside 
> though, I wonder if there’s a difference in the frames re: weight. Like 
> you, I’m a thin woman and I don’t want the bike any heavier than it has 
> to 
> be. A friend of mine (also a woman) said she examined the Susie and it 
> was 
> SO heavy. Even compared to her stout Appaloosa and my Clem (which she 
> rode 
> one time). Maybe someone can tell us if there is a significant weight 
> difference between the frames. I think that matters, and I don’t care how 
> many folks jump on here to tell me it doesn’t. And on 

Re: [RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Patrick Moore]

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 6:44 PM Doug H.  wrote:

> ...  I do think at some point a bike can be too heavy and I can understand
> Leah getting a lighter weight wheelset for hers.


For me, of all the non-road-type bikes (perhaps that should read
"non-roadie-type-bikes," because of course you ride Clems on the road) it's
the Clem I'd look at first, largely for its benefits-to-price ratio.

Having said that: I think Grant overbuilds his bikes, and one of 2 reasons
I'd hesitate to buy a Clem is the (to my mind) excessively stout tubes.
(The other reason is tire clearance; we have sand.)

And this for 2 reasons: first, just the heft. Why carry it around if you
don't need it? Second, "planing." I was long a planing skeptic until I had
Chauncey Matthews essentially clone my 2003 road custom. The clone has
thinner walled and narrower gauge tubes, and it did solve a problem I'd
noticed in the background for 17 years: the 2003 often seemed sluggish
compared to the 1999 road custom that it was copied from. Sometimes my left
quad would ache when seated and pushing the crank for extended periods
(fixed gear, against wind or up inclines). The Chauncey clone
*immediately* felt
faster -- or rather, easier to sit and pedal -- up hills and against
headwinds; I don't get that "bogging down" feeling and my quad doesn't
start hurting.

So, for simple absence of unneeded weight, and also for "planing." As for
the stoutness being unneeded: for decades I've ridden far thinner-tubed
bikes with heavy rear loads, without any problems whatsoever. (The key is a
stiff rack.) The best rear load carrier I ever owned was a 1973 racing
frameset of really light standard gauge 531 -- I recall hefting it upon
receipt, and being disappointed that it was so much lighter than my 2003
Riv frameset -- I wanted the nicer bike to be lighter. But I regularly
carried loads up to 45 lb on the rear, and more moderate (20-25) loads much
more frequently along longer distances across bad pavement on 29 mm tires.
I'm 170 without any accessories, not heavy but no flyweight. The bike is
still in service, I think, under yet another owner, Eric "CampyOnly" Norris
of this list, and he's a mega-miler.

Still, I haven't taken a Clem off my "eventually" list.

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[RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Joe Bernard]

Yep, the first weight weenie upgrade anyone should do to a bike is wheels 
and tires. A that mass out there on the ends of the frame making big 
circles is noticeable; the order is tires, tubes (or ditch them like Leah 
did on her Platy), spokes, hubs. It's the business! 



On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 5:44:54 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

> Interesting topic that I am enjoying while awaiting my in transit Clem L 
> 52. They never offered a 55 so I think Laing meant 59. I really like the 
> looks of the Clem L, more so than the Susie/Gus even, although they both 
> are cool styles. I never thought much about the weight of a bicycle until I 
> bought a Wabi single speed that was super light (19 pounds). But, I didn't 
> really see much of a benefit to that light weight in real world riding. I 
> do think at some point a bike can be too heavy and I can understand Leah 
> getting a lighter weight wheelset for hers. I think Joe has written here 
> somewhere about wheel weight being more noticeable than frame weight and 
> that makes sense to me. So, I can't help with your decision Kiley but I'd 
> say you can't go wrong either way.
> Doug
> Athens, Ga
>
> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 6:27:32 PM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>
>> I have a 52 Clementine, Large Gus (a heavy duty Susie), 60 Betty Foy. The 
>> Clementine is by far the easiest to get on and off of, but requires the 
>> longest stem to get the handlebars high enough. I should have gotten the 55 
>> Clementine, but it was purchased partly with my girlfriend in mind, who has 
>> now become my wife and appropriated the Betty Foy, because it is lighter 
>> and mostly because she loves the red hearts in the blue frame lugs, the 
>> seat barely clears the top of the seat tube, but she likes the bars up 
>> high. The Clementine is getting a Crust Clydesdale fork with a long 
>> threadless steerer and is likely to become my go-to bike once complete. 
>> Note that I am 65 and overweight, so the step-through becomes more 
>> important as time goes by. BUT, I also have a Medium Mountain Mixte Rosco 
>> Bubbe, that is about 90% complete as well as a Rosco Baby that is also 90% 
>> complete - searching for that perfect step-though!
>>
>> Laing
>> Delray Beach FL
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 5:47:42 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Weight differences between Clem L and Susie: Right off the bat the 
>>> problem I have here is I didn't have both bikes at the same time so take 
>>> this for what it's worth (it's not worth much cuz who knows how good my 
>>> memory is on this??). I've owned a 52cm Clem L and 53cm Susie, both with 
>>> the the wheels that come on Clem completes, both with similar parts specs. 
>>> IMO the Susie is slightly lighter but not enough for it to be the decider 
>>> in which frame you pick. 
>>>
>>> Susie/Wolbis (no, I don't understand the names either) is a more 
>>> expensive frame with very nice fillet joints and a mid-high toptube, it's 
>>> probably going to be stiffer than a step-thru for the mountain biking-ish 
>>> mission it was designed for. This is also helpful for a later electric 
>>> conversion (Clem L's can get noodly with a motor), plus that higher toptube 
>>> leaves room for a battery on the downtube. 
>>>
>>> Clem L (I still like the Clementine name better) is much cheaper new, 
>>> has perfectly acceptable TIG welds, and of course has that way-low toptube 
>>> (droptube is the moniker I'm trying make trend). And this is where I have 
>>> to shout out The Word According To Leah, especially as she's in this 
>>> thread: Droptubes are better! If you don't need the triangulation the Susie 
>>> offers, Clem L wins hands down for ease of getting on and off, as well 
>>> sliding off to one foot at stops during the ride. And it's a very pretty 
>>> bicycle. 
>>>
>>> That's what I think! 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 2:07:52 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 I am not an expert, but I AM a Clem fan. To be fair, I’ve never ridden 
 a Gus/Susie, but (and don’t hate me, Gus and Susie fans) I’ve never 
 understood the allure of that bike. Looks and names and decals aside 
 though, I wonder if there’s a difference in the frames re: weight. Like 
 you, I’m a thin woman and I don’t want the bike any heavier than it has to 
 be. A friend of mine (also a woman) said she examined the Susie and it was 
 SO heavy. Even compared to her stout Appaloosa and my Clem (which she rode 
 one time). Maybe someone can tell us if there is a significant weight 
 difference between the frames. I think that matters, and I don’t care how 
 many folks jump on here to tell me it doesn’t. And on that note, the Clems 
 are heavy enough that I think they benefit from lightening up. I put a 
 lightweight wheelset and tubeless tires on mine, plus aluminum bars. If I 
 could do it over, I’d gear it as a 1x, and save the extra weight from the 
 

[RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Doug H.]

Interesting topic that I am enjoying while awaiting my in transit Clem L 
52. They never offered a 55 so I think Laing meant 59. I really like the 
looks of the Clem L, more so than the Susie/Gus even, although they both 
are cool styles. I never thought much about the weight of a bicycle until I 
bought a Wabi single speed that was super light (19 pounds). But, I didn't 
really see much of a benefit to that light weight in real world riding. I 
do think at some point a bike can be too heavy and I can understand Leah 
getting a lighter weight wheelset for hers. I think Joe has written here 
somewhere about wheel weight being more noticeable than frame weight and 
that makes sense to me. So, I can't help with your decision Kiley but I'd 
say you can't go wrong either way.
Doug
Athens, Ga

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 6:27:32 PM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> I have a 52 Clementine, Large Gus (a heavy duty Susie), 60 Betty Foy. The 
> Clementine is by far the easiest to get on and off of, but requires the 
> longest stem to get the handlebars high enough. I should have gotten the 55 
> Clementine, but it was purchased partly with my girlfriend in mind, who has 
> now become my wife and appropriated the Betty Foy, because it is lighter 
> and mostly because she loves the red hearts in the blue frame lugs, the 
> seat barely clears the top of the seat tube, but she likes the bars up 
> high. The Clementine is getting a Crust Clydesdale fork with a long 
> threadless steerer and is likely to become my go-to bike once complete. 
> Note that I am 65 and overweight, so the step-through becomes more 
> important as time goes by. BUT, I also have a Medium Mountain Mixte Rosco 
> Bubbe, that is about 90% complete as well as a Rosco Baby that is also 90% 
> complete - searching for that perfect step-though!
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 5:47:42 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Weight differences between Clem L and Susie: Right off the bat the 
>> problem I have here is I didn't have both bikes at the same time so take 
>> this for what it's worth (it's not worth much cuz who knows how good my 
>> memory is on this??). I've owned a 52cm Clem L and 53cm Susie, both with 
>> the the wheels that come on Clem completes, both with similar parts specs. 
>> IMO the Susie is slightly lighter but not enough for it to be the decider 
>> in which frame you pick. 
>>
>> Susie/Wolbis (no, I don't understand the names either) is a more 
>> expensive frame with very nice fillet joints and a mid-high toptube, it's 
>> probably going to be stiffer than a step-thru for the mountain biking-ish 
>> mission it was designed for. This is also helpful for a later electric 
>> conversion (Clem L's can get noodly with a motor), plus that higher toptube 
>> leaves room for a battery on the downtube. 
>>
>> Clem L (I still like the Clementine name better) is much cheaper new, has 
>> perfectly acceptable TIG welds, and of course has that way-low toptube 
>> (droptube is the moniker I'm trying make trend). And this is where I have 
>> to shout out The Word According To Leah, especially as she's in this 
>> thread: Droptubes are better! If you don't need the triangulation the Susie 
>> offers, Clem L wins hands down for ease of getting on and off, as well 
>> sliding off to one foot at stops during the ride. And it's a very pretty 
>> bicycle. 
>>
>> That's what I think! 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 2:07:52 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am not an expert, but I AM a Clem fan. To be fair, I’ve never ridden a 
>>> Gus/Susie, but (and don’t hate me, Gus and Susie fans) I’ve never 
>>> understood the allure of that bike. Looks and names and decals aside 
>>> though, I wonder if there’s a difference in the frames re: weight. Like 
>>> you, I’m a thin woman and I don’t want the bike any heavier than it has to 
>>> be. A friend of mine (also a woman) said she examined the Susie and it was 
>>> SO heavy. Even compared to her stout Appaloosa and my Clem (which she rode 
>>> one time). Maybe someone can tell us if there is a significant weight 
>>> difference between the frames. I think that matters, and I don’t care how 
>>> many folks jump on here to tell me it doesn’t. And on that note, the Clems 
>>> are heavy enough that I think they benefit from lightening up. I put a 
>>> lightweight wheelset and tubeless tires on mine, plus aluminum bars. If I 
>>> could do it over, I’d gear it as a 1x, and save the extra weight from the 
>>> shifter/derailleur and chain ring.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, the Clem’s personality. It is a gentle giant. It is elegant. 
>>> It is LONG. But honestly, I like how I feel on that bike even a bit better 
>>> than my Platypus (which is still my #1 bike because it is RASPBERRY SPARKLE 
>>> and I am fickle). The length is a problem if you need to get it on public 
>>> transportation or if you are storing it in your tiny living room. You will 
>>> need a long 

[RBW] Re: FS: Fabric Scoop Shallow Race Saddle

[Johnny Alien]

SOLD

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 3:30:33 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> The Fabric Scoop saddle has quickly become my favorite saddle. They are 
> light, waterproof and comfortable. This one is essentially new. I probably 
> had it on for about 50 miles. The reason I swapped is that because the bike 
> I had it on was more upright I bought a Scoop Radius. The Shallow profile 
> works great for mixed riding styles but for me the Radius profile is better 
> for 100% upright. I would say this profile I am selling would work great 
> for a Riv bike with noodle or albastache bars. This one is in perfect shape 
> with no issues. As new. If you like the Brooks Cambium line I am going to 
> bet you are going to love this.
>
> https://www.rei.com/product/899000/fabric-scoop-shallow-race-saddle
>
> $50 shipped in the USA
>

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[RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[lconley]

I have a 52 Clementine, Large Gus (a heavy duty Susie), 60 Betty Foy. The 
Clementine is by far the easiest to get on and off of, but requires the 
longest stem to get the handlebars high enough. I should have gotten the 55 
Clementine, but it was purchased partly with my girlfriend in mind, who has 
now become my wife and appropriated the Betty Foy, because it is lighter 
and mostly because she loves the red hearts in the blue frame lugs, the 
seat barely clears the top of the seat tube, but she likes the bars up 
high. The Clementine is getting a Crust Clydesdale fork with a long 
threadless steerer and is likely to become my go-to bike once complete. 
Note that I am 65 and overweight, so the step-through becomes more 
important as time goes by. BUT, I also have a Medium Mountain Mixte Rosco 
Bubbe, that is about 90% complete as well as a Rosco Baby that is also 90% 
complete - searching for that perfect step-though!

Laing
Delray Beach FL

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 5:47:42 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Weight differences between Clem L and Susie: Right off the bat the problem 
> I have here is I didn't have both bikes at the same time so take this for 
> what it's worth (it's not worth much cuz who knows how good my memory is on 
> this??). I've owned a 52cm Clem L and 53cm Susie, both with the the wheels 
> that come on Clem completes, both with similar parts specs. IMO the Susie 
> is slightly lighter but not enough for it to be the decider in which frame 
> you pick. 
>
> Susie/Wolbis (no, I don't understand the names either) is a more expensive 
> frame with very nice fillet joints and a mid-high toptube, it's probably 
> going to be stiffer than a step-thru for the mountain biking-ish mission it 
> was designed for. This is also helpful for a later electric conversion 
> (Clem L's can get noodly with a motor), plus that higher toptube leaves 
> room for a battery on the downtube. 
>
> Clem L (I still like the Clementine name better) is much cheaper new, has 
> perfectly acceptable TIG welds, and of course has that way-low toptube 
> (droptube is the moniker I'm trying make trend). And this is where I have 
> to shout out The Word According To Leah, especially as she's in this 
> thread: Droptubes are better! If you don't need the triangulation the Susie 
> offers, Clem L wins hands down for ease of getting on and off, as well 
> sliding off to one foot at stops during the ride. And it's a very pretty 
> bicycle. 
>
> That's what I think! 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 2:07:52 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I am not an expert, but I AM a Clem fan. To be fair, I’ve never ridden a 
>> Gus/Susie, but (and don’t hate me, Gus and Susie fans) I’ve never 
>> understood the allure of that bike. Looks and names and decals aside 
>> though, I wonder if there’s a difference in the frames re: weight. Like 
>> you, I’m a thin woman and I don’t want the bike any heavier than it has to 
>> be. A friend of mine (also a woman) said she examined the Susie and it was 
>> SO heavy. Even compared to her stout Appaloosa and my Clem (which she rode 
>> one time). Maybe someone can tell us if there is a significant weight 
>> difference between the frames. I think that matters, and I don’t care how 
>> many folks jump on here to tell me it doesn’t. And on that note, the Clems 
>> are heavy enough that I think they benefit from lightening up. I put a 
>> lightweight wheelset and tubeless tires on mine, plus aluminum bars. If I 
>> could do it over, I’d gear it as a 1x, and save the extra weight from the 
>> shifter/derailleur and chain ring.
>>
>> Meanwhile, the Clem’s personality. It is a gentle giant. It is elegant. 
>> It is LONG. But honestly, I like how I feel on that bike even a bit better 
>> than my Platypus (which is still my #1 bike because it is RASPBERRY SPARKLE 
>> and I am fickle). The length is a problem if you need to get it on public 
>> transportation or if you are storing it in your tiny living room. You will 
>> need a long wheelbase bar for your vehicle bike rack. But that length also 
>> (I think) makes it such a great riding bike. You feel like you sit down and 
>> in it. I don’t like my Clem with a front rack; I think it rides better with 
>> a rear rack. You will never regret a step-through. The Clem, in my never 
>> humble opinion, is unimprovable. 
>>
>> YIKES! I’m late to pick up my kid from school! Ok, good luck
>> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 1:08:51 PM UTC-8 Kiley Demond wrote:
>>
>>> This has probably been hashed over numerous times so at the risk of 
>>> making some of you go "arg!"...
>>>
>>> What are the differences of note between Clem L. and Susie W.? 
>>>
>>>- Handling (stability, nimbleness)
>>>- Wieldy-ness (overall size, weight, etc.)
>>>- Suitability for electrifying at a future date
>>>- Any other thoughts, whether experiential or theoretical
>>>
>>> The person asking is 5'10" 140lbs with a pbh of 91. I had 

[RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Joe Bernard]

Weight differences between Clem L and Susie: Right off the bat the problem 
I have here is I didn't have both bikes at the same time so take this for 
what it's worth (it's not worth much cuz who knows how good my memory is on 
this??). I've owned a 52cm Clem L and 53cm Susie, both with the the wheels 
that come on Clem completes, both with similar parts specs. IMO the Susie 
is slightly lighter but not enough for it to be the decider in which frame 
you pick. 

Susie/Wolbis (no, I don't understand the names either) is a more expensive 
frame with very nice fillet joints and a mid-high toptube, it's probably 
going to be stiffer than a step-thru for the mountain biking-ish mission it 
was designed for. This is also helpful for a later electric conversion 
(Clem L's can get noodly with a motor), plus that higher toptube leaves 
room for a battery on the downtube. 

Clem L (I still like the Clementine name better) is much cheaper new, has 
perfectly acceptable TIG welds, and of course has that way-low toptube 
(droptube is the moniker I'm trying make trend). And this is where I have 
to shout out The Word According To Leah, especially as she's in this 
thread: Droptubes are better! If you don't need the triangulation the Susie 
offers, Clem L wins hands down for ease of getting on and off, as well 
sliding off to one foot at stops during the ride. And it's a very pretty 
bicycle. 

That's what I think! 

Joe Bernard

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 2:07:52 PM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I am not an expert, but I AM a Clem fan. To be fair, I’ve never ridden a 
> Gus/Susie, but (and don’t hate me, Gus and Susie fans) I’ve never 
> understood the allure of that bike. Looks and names and decals aside 
> though, I wonder if there’s a difference in the frames re: weight. Like 
> you, I’m a thin woman and I don’t want the bike any heavier than it has to 
> be. A friend of mine (also a woman) said she examined the Susie and it was 
> SO heavy. Even compared to her stout Appaloosa and my Clem (which she rode 
> one time). Maybe someone can tell us if there is a significant weight 
> difference between the frames. I think that matters, and I don’t care how 
> many folks jump on here to tell me it doesn’t. And on that note, the Clems 
> are heavy enough that I think they benefit from lightening up. I put a 
> lightweight wheelset and tubeless tires on mine, plus aluminum bars. If I 
> could do it over, I’d gear it as a 1x, and save the extra weight from the 
> shifter/derailleur and chain ring.
>
> Meanwhile, the Clem’s personality. It is a gentle giant. It is elegant. It 
> is LONG. But honestly, I like how I feel on that bike even a bit better 
> than my Platypus (which is still my #1 bike because it is RASPBERRY SPARKLE 
> and I am fickle). The length is a problem if you need to get it on public 
> transportation or if you are storing it in your tiny living room. You will 
> need a long wheelbase bar for your vehicle bike rack. But that length also 
> (I think) makes it such a great riding bike. You feel like you sit down and 
> in it. I don’t like my Clem with a front rack; I think it rides better with 
> a rear rack. You will never regret a step-through. The Clem, in my never 
> humble opinion, is unimprovable. 
>
> YIKES! I’m late to pick up my kid from school! Ok, good luck
> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 1:08:51 PM UTC-8 Kiley Demond wrote:
>
>> This has probably been hashed over numerous times so at the risk of 
>> making some of you go "arg!"...
>>
>> What are the differences of note between Clem L. and Susie W.? 
>>
>>- Handling (stability, nimbleness)
>>- Wieldy-ness (overall size, weight, etc.)
>>- Suitability for electrifying at a future date
>>- Any other thoughts, whether experiential or theoretical
>>
>> The person asking is 5'10" 140lbs with a pbh of 91. I had a 60cm Cheviot 
>> which I loved but sold several years ago when financial issues overrode 
>> having such a fancy ride. I would prefer to buy a frame only and do the 
>> build myself. I was gutted when I saw that an orange Susie W. frame was 
>> listed (and sold); I wasn't paying sufficient attention. I "won" the 
>> right-to-purchase lottery for a Clem but couldn't do it because they were 
>> sold as complete and I hadn't done my due diligence on Susie Ws.
>>
>> Thank you for your collective insights and wisdom!
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I am not an expert, but I AM a Clem fan. To be fair, I’ve never ridden a 
Gus/Susie, but (and don’t hate me, Gus and Susie fans) I’ve never 
understood the allure of that bike. Looks and names and decals aside 
though, I wonder if there’s a difference in the frames re: weight. Like 
you, I’m a thin woman and I don’t want the bike any heavier than it has to 
be. A friend of mine (also a woman) said she examined the Susie and it was 
SO heavy. Even compared to her stout Appaloosa and my Clem (which she rode 
one time). Maybe someone can tell us if there is a significant weight 
difference between the frames. I think that matters, and I don’t care how 
many folks jump on here to tell me it doesn’t. And on that note, the Clems 
are heavy enough that I think they benefit from lightening up. I put a 
lightweight wheelset and tubeless tires on mine, plus aluminum bars. If I 
could do it over, I’d gear it as a 1x, and save the extra weight from the 
shifter/derailleur and chain ring.

Meanwhile, the Clem’s personality. It is a gentle giant. It is elegant. It 
is LONG. But honestly, I like how I feel on that bike even a bit better 
than my Platypus (which is still my #1 bike because it is RASPBERRY SPARKLE 
and I am fickle). The length is a problem if you need to get it on public 
transportation or if you are storing it in your tiny living room. You will 
need a long wheelbase bar for your vehicle bike rack. But that length also 
(I think) makes it such a great riding bike. You feel like you sit down and 
in it. I don’t like my Clem with a front rack; I think it rides better with 
a rear rack. You will never regret a step-through. The Clem, in my never 
humble opinion, is unimprovable. 

YIKES! I’m late to pick up my kid from school! Ok, good luck
On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 1:08:51 PM UTC-8 Kiley Demond wrote:

> This has probably been hashed over numerous times so at the risk of making 
> some of you go "arg!"...
>
> What are the differences of note between Clem L. and Susie W.? 
>
>- Handling (stability, nimbleness)
>- Wieldy-ness (overall size, weight, etc.)
>- Suitability for electrifying at a future date
>- Any other thoughts, whether experiential or theoretical
>
> The person asking is 5'10" 140lbs with a pbh of 91. I had a 60cm Cheviot 
> which I loved but sold several years ago when financial issues overrode 
> having such a fancy ride. I would prefer to buy a frame only and do the 
> build myself. I was gutted when I saw that an orange Susie W. frame was 
> listed (and sold); I wasn't paying sufficient attention. I "won" the 
> right-to-purchase lottery for a Clem but couldn't do it because they were 
> sold as complete and I hadn't done my due diligence on Susie Ws.
>
> Thank you for your collective insights and wisdom!
>

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[RBW] Re: OT but at least as good as Dylan: help finding best source for some digital music

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, all. the 2 albums have been purchased and downloaded successfully.

On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 5:32 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I grew up with vinyl LPs and transitioned to cassettes (magnetic tape, not
> HG) and CDs easily enough, but navigating MP3 or whateverthehell current
> formats are is something I find confusing.
>
> I'd like to get, in particular, these 2 albums: Jerry Garcia and David
> Grisman, "Shady Grove," and (ditto), The Pizza Tapes.
>
> Is there any *secure and reliable source* from which to pay online by PP
> or CC and download the whole albums to one's computer?
>
> Not long ago I bought the Complete Works of JS Bach on 142 or so CDs, and
> have had to beg and pay people to convert them to files I can store on my
> computer and on a separate hard drive.
>
> In anticipated appreciation of all y'alls help, I append this, which
> sufficiently proves the reasonableness of my desire.
>
> Note: This track is pure "just ride" music.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91XCNix2tg
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: LF Single Speed Frame

[Patrick Moore]

Again, this is very good to know. I'll certainly archive this in my
"possible framebuilders" file.

Many thanks.

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 12:54 PM Mackenzy Albright <
mackenzy.albri...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> *MacKenzy: Are you familiar with Marino? Are they legit, and is the
> website and price list up to date? *
>
> Like Eric said. They're legit. Their customer service is excellent,
> sometimes slow. They're a small company and they build one off batches for
> other companies such as enforcer (I also wouldn't be surprised if they
> built frames for bassi or some small batches of crust stuff like the
> florida man this is 200% speculative). Wait times are definitely a bit on
> the slower side 6 months is more accurate, they're very thorough with the
> design mockups before they begin the build - so generally id say a month of
> correspondence before it even moves into the build queue. I think for a
> frame and fork shipped to Canada was probably around 700cad (4-500usd seems
> about right for a frame) which is still cheaper than a surly frame here due
> to imports. I'd say it's for sure it's Surly quality. I know a few more
> people that are mid process and its going well getting slightly
> modified/personalized versions of unavailable frames. I think you can
> upgrade to nicer and lighter steels, but that wasn't really a concern on my
> part.
> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 7:04:31 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Mackenzy Albright 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> if you have a bit of patience and feel like being creative you could
>>> just get a custom made -
>>> https://www.marinobike.com/product/custom-gravel-fixed-cyclocross-frame/
>>
>>
>> MacKenzy: Are you familiar with Marino? Are they legit, and is the
>> website and price list up to date? I ask because this jumped out at me:
>>
>> *Description: A full custom geometry TIG welded frame starts at
>>  US$280. Building time frame: 14 weeks*
>>
>> Is that a typo, and should it be $2800? Or are these prices from 2005?
>> I'd immediately guess "yes" except, look at the prices he quotes for
>> *worldwide* frame shipping! $110 for 1, $150 for 2.
>>
>> Can you say? Anyone else?
>>
>> He seems to offer frames for 700C X 3" wheels, and that's what I'm hoping
>> to get in replacement for the Monocog so I can use the true 3" width of the
>> WTB Rangers (currently at about 71 mm on the skinny 24 mm ED Alex rims).
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Susie v. Clem Help Me Off The Fence

[Kiley Demond]

This has probably been hashed over numerous times so at the risk of making 
some of you go "arg!"...

What are the differences of note between Clem L. and Susie W.? 

   - Handling (stability, nimbleness)
   - Wieldy-ness (overall size, weight, etc.)
   - Suitability for electrifying at a future date
   - Any other thoughts, whether experiential or theoretical

The person asking is 5'10" 140lbs with a pbh of 91. I had a 60cm Cheviot 
which I loved but sold several years ago when financial issues overrode 
having such a fancy ride. I would prefer to buy a frame only and do the 
build myself. I was gutted when I saw that an orange Susie W. frame was 
listed (and sold); I wasn't paying sufficient attention. I "won" the 
right-to-purchase lottery for a Clem but couldn't do it because they were 
sold as complete and I hadn't done my due diligence on Susie Ws.

Thank you for your collective insights and wisdom!

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[RBW] FS: Fabric Scoop Shallow Race Saddle

[Johnny Alien]

The Fabric Scoop saddle has quickly become my favorite saddle. They are 
light, waterproof and comfortable. This one is essentially new. I probably 
had it on for about 50 miles. The reason I swapped is that because the bike 
I had it on was more upright I bought a Scoop Radius. The Shallow profile 
works great for mixed riding styles but for me the Radius profile is better 
for 100% upright. I would say this profile I am selling would work great 
for a Riv bike with noodle or albastache bars. This one is in perfect shape 
with no issues. As new. If you like the Brooks Cambium line I am going to 
bet you are going to love this.

https://www.rei.com/product/899000/fabric-scoop-shallow-race-saddle

$50 shipped in the USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: LF Single Speed Frame

[Mackenzy Albright]

*MacKenzy: Are you familiar with Marino? Are they legit, and is the website 
and price list up to date? *

Like Eric said. They're legit. Their customer service is excellent, 
sometimes slow. They're a small company and they build one off batches for 
other companies such as enforcer (I also wouldn't be surprised if they 
built frames for bassi or some small batches of crust stuff like the 
florida man this is 200% speculative). Wait times are definitely a bit on 
the slower side 6 months is more accurate, they're very thorough with the 
design mockups before they begin the build - so generally id say a month of 
correspondence before it even moves into the build queue. I think for a 
frame and fork shipped to Canada was probably around 700cad (4-500usd seems 
about right for a frame) which is still cheaper than a surly frame here due 
to imports. I'd say it's for sure it's Surly quality. I know a few more 
people that are mid process and its going well getting slightly 
modified/personalized versions of unavailable frames. I think you can 
upgrade to nicer and lighter steels, but that wasn't really a concern on my 
part. 
On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 7:04:31 PM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 5, 2021 at 3:28 PM Mackenzy Albright  
> wrote:
>
>> if you have a bit of patience and feel like being creative you could just 
>> get a custom made - 
>> https://www.marinobike.com/product/custom-gravel-fixed-cyclocross-frame/
>
>
> MacKenzy: Are you familiar with Marino? Are they legit, and is the website 
> and price list up to date? I ask because this jumped out at me:
>
> *Description: A full custom geometry TIG welded frame starts at 
>  US$280. Building time frame: 14 weeks*
>
> Is that a typo, and should it be $2800? Or are these prices from 2005? I'd 
> immediately guess "yes" except, look at the prices he quotes for 
> *worldwide* frame shipping! $110 for 1, $150 for 2. 
>
> Can you say? Anyone else?
>
> He seems to offer frames for 700C X 3" wheels, and that's what I'm hoping 
> to get in replacement for the Monocog so I can use the true 3" width of the 
> WTB Rangers (currently at about 71 mm on the skinny 24 mm ED Alex rims).
>
> Thanks.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bag Support for Medium Saddlesack

[Patrick Moore]

Sorry, that was years ago.

On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 11:32 AM Dave Grossman  wrote:

> Do you have a pic of your homemade device?
>
> On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 11:49:18 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Carradice has all sorts of options:
>> https://www.carradice.co.uk/products/saddle-fixing-systems. IME, tho' it
>> has been a few years, they shipped US orders smoothly and promptly.
>>
>> My arrangement from some years ago. Of course, Those are 25" diameter
>> wheels, but OTOH, it's a medium (58 c-c) frame. I home-made a QR saddlebag
>> clamp much alike in design to the Nitto one but with arms level instead of
>> angling down. This let me hang the M Saddlesack with ample clearance over
>> the rear tire even when fully stuffed with heavy-ish groceries.
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:33 AM Dave Grossman  wrote:
>>
>>> Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a bag support that
>>> isn't a full rear rack for a medium saddlesack.   DIY ideas welcome!
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
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Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] OT but at least as good as Dylan: help finding best source for some digital music

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks again, Eric; just downloaded Pizza Tapes.

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 12:26 PM Eric Marth  wrote:

> EDIT: And the three-disc expanded "Extra Large Edition" of the Pizza Tapes
> is here
> 
>  at
> Acoustic Disc with mp3 download for $20.
>
> On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 2:24:55 PM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick -- For this and any other release I'd recommend seeking out
>> the record label and getting the music directly from them, especially when
>> seeking stuff outside of the mainstream on smaller labels. In this case the
>> label is Acoustic Disc / Acoustic Oasis. They released the original CDs.
>> They also have tons of other great Grisman, Garcia, Rice, Old & In the Way
>> records and associated acts.
>>
>> Here's a link
>> 
>> to the page where you can download the Pizza Tapes mp3s directly for $10.
>>
>> On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 1:59:18 PM UTC-5 Jim Kramka wrote:
>>
>>> HDTracks.com has both of those Grisman/Garcia recordings and two others
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 6:32 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 I grew up with vinyl LPs and transitioned to cassettes (magnetic tape,
 not HG) and CDs easily enough, but navigating MP3 or whateverthehell
 current formats are is something I find confusing.

 I'd like to get, in particular, these 2 albums: Jerry Garcia and David
 Grisman, "Shady Grove," and (ditto), The Pizza Tapes.

 Is there any *secure and reliable source* from which to pay online by
 PP or CC and download the whole albums to one's computer?

 Not long ago I bought the Complete Works of JS Bach on 142 or so CDs,
 and have had to beg and pay people to convert them to files I can store on
 my computer and on a separate hard drive.

 In anticipated appreciation of all y'alls help, I append this, which
 sufficiently proves the reasonableness of my desire.

 Note: This track is pure "just ride" music.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91XCNix2tg

 Thanks.

 --

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 --

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Re: [RBW] Bag Support for Medium Saddlesack

[Dave Grossman]

Do you have a pic of your homemade device?

On Tuesday, November 9, 2021 at 11:49:18 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Carradice has all sorts of options: 
> https://www.carradice.co.uk/products/saddle-fixing-systems. IME, tho' it 
> has been a few years, they shipped US orders smoothly and promptly.
>
> My arrangement from some years ago. Of course, Those are 25" diameter 
> wheels, but OTOH, it's a medium (58 c-c) frame. I home-made a QR saddlebag 
> clamp much alike in design to the Nitto one but with arms level instead of 
> angling down. This let me hang the M Saddlesack with ample clearance over 
> the rear tire even when fully stuffed with heavy-ish groceries.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> On Tue, Nov 9, 2021 at 7:33 AM Dave Grossman  wrote:
>
>> Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a bag support that isn't 
>> a full rear rack for a medium saddlesack.   DIY ideas welcome! 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ce648cfc-0a56-4c3b-9820-0ce986b297abn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] OT but at least as good as Dylan: help finding best source for some digital music

[Patrick Moore]

Jared: I am in no way offended. Paul is a noble name.

On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 8:44 PM Jared Wilson  wrote:

> Patrick
>
> Apologies for using the wrong name above, I was in the dentist waiting
> room and had a brain fart.
>
> Best
>
> Jared
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 8, 2021, at 10:37 AM, Jared Wilson  wrote:
>
> Hey Paul
>
> I had good luck with downloading the Pizza Tape files from Google Drive,
> not for purchase but available for download for free via a fellow deadhead.
>
> Best
>
> Jared
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 8, 2021, at 10:28 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> Correction: CLiced many times on Download Your Music and it just refreshes
> the page; nothing happens.
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 11:27 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> I just purchased Shady Grove; "save to cloud." OK. Sales-completed window
>> has option to check for "download your music." I click on it, I get
>> Amazon's G-d Amazon Music window offering me a free trial.No sign of my
>> purchase.
>>
>> Looked on Manage Your Content and Devices. All the books show, no music.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> It's only $10, but still, *$#^$&^#)+
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 11:20 AM Patrick Moore 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Spoke too soon. Amazon wants to save the album to the cloud. I want to
>>> save it to my hard drive. Any thoughts on this?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 10:25 PM  wrote:
>>>
 Both of those albums are available digitally from Amazon. About $10
 each. Amazon usually sells their MP3 files at about 256 mbps. Not
 audiophile quality but decent. These files are able to be downloaded to
 your pc or streamed through their music app.

 High quality FLAC downloads are likely available from High Def Tracks
 and likely at a higher cost. I’ve never used them but many on the music
 forums I read do with good results.

 https://www.hdtracks.com/

 Robert Tilley
 San Diego, CA

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 7, 2021, at 4:32 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

 
 I grew up with vinyl LPs and transitioned to cassettes (magnetic tape,
 not HG) and CDs easily enough, but navigating MP3 or whateverthehell
 current formats are is something I find confusing.

 I'd like to get, in particular, these 2 albums: Jerry Garcia and David
 Grisman, "Shady Grove," and (ditto), The Pizza Tapes.

 Is there any *secure and reliable source* from which to pay online by
 PP or CC and download the whole albums to one's computer?

 Not long ago I bought the Complete Works of JS Bach on 142 or so CDs,
 and have had to beg and pay people to convert them to files I can store on
 my computer and on a separate hard drive.

 In anticipated appreciation of all y'alls help, I append this, which
 sufficiently proves the reasonableness of my desire.

 Note: This track is pure "just ride" music.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91XCNix2tg

 Thanks.

 --

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> --
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> Google Groups "RBW 

[RBW] Re: LF Single Speed Frame

[Bones]

Looks great Bill, thanks! And update: I've found a frame. Thanks everyone 
for your help. If anyone is interested in my Wabi (58cm Thunder in Desert 
Turqouise), PM me.

Bones

On Saturday, November 6, 2021 at 10:37:05 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Here's a small flickr album from when I did the build a couple months back:
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72157719573693918
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 10:10:28 AM UTC-7 Bones wrote:
>
>> Oh and Bill I'd love to see your Florida Man!
>>
>> Bones
>>
>> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 12:38:13 PM UTC-4 Bones wrote:
>>
>>> But then I'll need to find a new Pizza bike! Wait, does this mean I have 
>>> too many bikes!?
>>>
>>> [image: fm03.jpg]
>>>
>>> Bones
>>> On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 11:43:00 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 It appears there are still large size Crust Florida Man framesets in 
 stock.  I run one of those as my 'commuter' in flattish Wayne County 
 Michigan, where I travel for work several times a year.  Last month I did 
 a 
 fixed 200k on it with Detroit Randonneurs.  I love the bike.  I run the 
 Large-58 with my 75.5cm SH.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Friday, November 5, 2021 at 8:21:32 AM UTC-7 Bones wrote:

> The Wabi I've been commuting on is perfect in spirit but it's just too 
> small. If anyone has a frame for sale (i.e. 62-64 Quickbeam, Simpleone ~ 
> whatever for 80cm saddle height), I'd be interested. Similarly, if anyone 
> can point to something else that might fit the bill, I'd appreciate it. 
> The 
> forthcoming Roaduno looks like it would be perfect, but I'm not sure I 
> can 
> hold out that long. I've got lots of single speed stuff and my commute is 
> short and flat so I'd really like to stick with a SS frame.
>
> Thanks!
> Bones
>


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[RBW] Re: FS :: Seatposts Most NEW - Nitto Shimano Salsa Suntour Enve Easton

[David Hallerman]

Three have sold.

_*27.2mm*_
*SOLD* 1. Suntour XC Pro 27.2mm silver/grey 300mm = $125 NEW
*SOLD* 2. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $150 NEW
3. Shimano XTR (M910) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $195 NEW
4. Easton EA90 27.2mm black 350mm 20mm offset = $75 NEW
5. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 27.2mm silver 300mm 30mm offset = $75 NEW

_*26.8mm*_
6. Nitto S83 26.8mm black 300mm 20mm offset = $125 NEW
*SOLD* 7. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 26.8mm silver 270mm = $150 excellent
8. Ritchey Comp 26.8mm black 400mm = $40 excellent
9. Salsa Shaft 26.8mm silver 250mm = $45 good

_*31.6mm*_
10. RaceFace Next 31.6mm carbon 400mm 0mm offset = $55 excellent
11. Enve Gen2 31.6mm carbon 400mm 25mm offset = $185 NEW (clamp 
disassembled)

12. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 31.6mm silver 400mm 16mm offset = $45 NEW

_*27.0mm*_
13. Suntour XC Pro 27.0mm silver/grey 300mm = $75 near-new
14. Salsa Shaft 27.0mm black 350mm = $95 NEW

==

On 11/9/21 8:29 AM, David Hallerman wrote:


Hello and good morning -

Here are 14 seatposts for sale, most either brand new or nearly new. 
Sizes range from 26.8mm to 31.6mm Note that I do not have specified 
offset/setback for the older seatposts, but the Shimano/Salsa/Suntour 
are offset by about 20-25mm.


Prices include shipping in CONUS if buyer covers the Paypal fees. 
Photos available on request.


Dave, who notes that the super rare XTR M910 seatpost is simply the 
classic Dura-Ace 7410 seatpost but with a longer shaft and a different 
decal


Hudson Valley NY

P.S. The heads on both the Suntour and Salsa posts are among the best 
ever at making it easy and accurate to adjust saddle angle.


_*27.2mm*_
1. Suntour XC Pro 27.2mm silver/grey 300mm = $125 NEW
2. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $150 NEW
3. Shimano XTR (M910) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $195 NEW
4. Easton EA90 27.2mm black 350mm 20mm offset = $75 NEW
5. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 27.2mm silver 300mm 30mm offset = $75 NEW

_*26.8mm*_
6. Nitto S83 26.8mm black 300mm 20mm offset = $125 NEW
7. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 26.8mm silver 270mm = $150 excellent
8. Ritchey Comp 26.8mm black 400mm = $40 excellent
9. Salsa Shaft 26.8mm silver 250mm = $45 good

_*31.6mm*_
10. RaceFace Next 31.6mm carbon 400mm 0mm offset = $55 excellent
11. Enve Gen2 31.6mm carbon 400mm 25mm offset = $185 NEW (clamp 
disassembled)

12. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 31.6mm silver 400mm 16mm offset = $45 NEW

_*27.0mm*_
13. Suntour XC Pro 27.0mm silver/grey 300mm = $75 near-new
14. Salsa Shaft 27.0mm black 350mm = $95 NEW

==



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[RBW] Bag Support for Medium Saddlesack

[Dave Grossman]

Just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a bag support that isn't a 
full rear rack for a medium saddlesack.   DIY ideas welcome!

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[RBW] FT: 2019 Atlantis frame and fork 59cm

[Bryan Quinn]

I’m interested in trading my 2019 Atlantis Frame and fork, size 59cm, for a 
Hunq frame/fork in the 55-57cm size range. Any takers? 

Bryan Quinn, principal @ One Nature, LLC and O.N. Engineering, PLLC, Beacon, NY




This message and all attachments are a private communication and may be 
confidential and/or legally privileged. 

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Re: [RBW] : Seatposts Most NEW - Nitto Shimano Salsa Suntour Enve Easton

[James Warren]

David, never mind. I don’t want black.

Sorry

And sorry whole list, I meant to send to David privately. That Reply command 
always gets me.


> On Nov 9, 2021, at 5:29 AM, David Hallerman  wrote:
> 
> Hello and good morning -
> 
> Here are 14 seatposts for sale, most either brand new or nearly new. Sizes 
> range from 26.8mm to 31.6mm Note that I do not have specified offset/setback 
> for the older seatposts, but the Shimano/Salsa/Suntour are offset by about 
> 20-25mm.
> 
> Prices include shipping in CONUS if buyer covers the Paypal fees. Photos 
> available on request.
> 
> Dave, who notes that the super rare XTR M910 seatpost is simply the classic 
> Dura-Ace 7410 seatpost but with a longer shaft and a different decal
> 
> Hudson Valley NY
> 
> P.S. The heads on both the Suntour and Salsa posts are among the best ever at 
> making it easy and accurate to adjust saddle angle.
> 
> 27.2mm
> 1. Suntour XC Pro 27.2mm silver/grey 300mm = $125 NEW
> 2. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $150 NEW
> 3. Shimano XTR (M910) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $195 NEW
> 4. Easton EA90 27.2mm black 350mm 20mm offset = $75 NEW
> 5. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 27.2mm silver 300mm 30mm offset = $75 NEW
> 
> 26.8mm
> 6. Nitto S83 26.8mm black 300mm 20mm offset = $125 NEW
> 7. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 26.8mm silver 270mm = $150 excellent
> 8. Ritchey Comp 26.8mm black 400mm = $40 excellent
> 9. Salsa Shaft 26.8mm silver 250mm = $45 good
> 
> 31.6mm
> 10. RaceFace Next 31.6mm carbon 400mm 0mm offset = $55 excellent
> 11. Enve Gen2 31.6mm carbon 400mm 25mm offset = $185 NEW (clamp disassembled)
> 12. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 31.6mm silver 400mm 16mm offset = $45 NEW
> 
> 27.0mm
> 13. Suntour XC Pro 27.0mm silver/grey 300mm = $75 near-new
> 14. Salsa Shaft 27.0mm black 350mm = $95 NEW
> 
> ==
> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] : Seatposts Most NEW - Nitto Shimano Salsa Suntour Enve Easton

[James Warren]

David,

May I buy your Nitto S83 in 26.8?

- Jim

> On Nov 9, 2021, at 5:29 AM, David Hallerman  wrote:
> 
> Hello and good morning -
> 
> Here are 14 seatposts for sale, most either brand new or nearly new. Sizes 
> range from 26.8mm to 31.6mm Note that I do not have specified offset/setback 
> for the older seatposts, but the Shimano/Salsa/Suntour are offset by about 
> 20-25mm.
> 
> Prices include shipping in CONUS if buyer covers the Paypal fees. Photos 
> available on request.
> 
> Dave, who notes that the super rare XTR M910 seatpost is simply the classic 
> Dura-Ace 7410 seatpost but with a longer shaft and a different decal
> 
> Hudson Valley NY
> 
> P.S. The heads on both the Suntour and Salsa posts are among the best ever at 
> making it easy and accurate to adjust saddle angle.
> 
> 27.2mm
> 1. Suntour XC Pro 27.2mm silver/grey 300mm = $125 NEW
> 2. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $150 NEW
> 3. Shimano XTR (M910) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $195 NEW
> 4. Easton EA90 27.2mm black 350mm 20mm offset = $75 NEW
> 5. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 27.2mm silver 300mm 30mm offset = $75 NEW
> 
> 26.8mm
> 6. Nitto S83 26.8mm black 300mm 20mm offset = $125 NEW
> 7. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 26.8mm silver 270mm = $150 excellent
> 8. Ritchey Comp 26.8mm black 400mm = $40 excellent
> 9. Salsa Shaft 26.8mm silver 250mm = $45 good
> 
> 31.6mm
> 10. RaceFace Next 31.6mm carbon 400mm 0mm offset = $55 excellent
> 11. Enve Gen2 31.6mm carbon 400mm 25mm offset = $185 NEW (clamp disassembled)
> 12. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 31.6mm silver 400mm 16mm offset = $45 NEW
> 
> 27.0mm
> 13. Suntour XC Pro 27.0mm silver/grey 300mm = $75 near-new
> 14. Salsa Shaft 27.0mm black 350mm = $95 NEW
> 
> ==
> 
> 
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[RBW] FS :: Seatposts Most NEW - Nitto Shimano Salsa Suntour Enve Easton

[David Hallerman]

Hello and good morning -

Here are 14 seatposts for sale, most either brand new or nearly new. 
Sizes range from 26.8mm to 31.6mm Note that I do not have specified 
offset/setback for the older seatposts, but the Shimano/Salsa/Suntour 
are offset by about 20-25mm.


Prices include shipping in CONUS if buyer covers the Paypal fees. Photos 
available on request.


Dave, who notes that the super rare XTR M910 seatpost is simply the 
classic Dura-Ace 7410 seatpost but with a longer shaft and a different decal


Hudson Valley NY

P.S. The heads on both the Suntour and Salsa posts are among the best 
ever at making it easy and accurate to adjust saddle angle.


_*27.2mm*_
1. Suntour XC Pro 27.2mm silver/grey 300mm = $125 NEW
2. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $150 NEW
3. Shimano XTR (M910) 27.2mm silver 270mm = $195 NEW
4. Easton EA90 27.2mm black 350mm 20mm offset = $75 NEW
5. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 27.2mm silver 300mm 30mm offset = $75 NEW

_*26.8mm*_
6. Nitto S83 26.8mm black 300mm 20mm offset = $125 NEW
7. Shimano Dura-Ace (7410) 26.8mm silver 270mm = $150 excellent
8. Ritchey Comp 26.8mm black 400mm = $40 excellent
9. Salsa Shaft 26.8mm silver 250mm = $45 good

_*31.6mm*_
10. RaceFace Next 31.6mm carbon 400mm 0mm offset = $55 excellent
11. Enve Gen2 31.6mm carbon 400mm 25mm offset = $185 NEW (clamp 
disassembled)

12. Velo-Orange Grand Cru 31.6mm silver 400mm 16mm offset = $45 NEW

_*27.0mm*_
13. Suntour XC Pro 27.0mm silver/grey 300mm = $75 near-new
14. Salsa Shaft 27.0mm black 350mm = $95 NEW

==

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Re: [RBW] OT but at least as good as Dylan: help finding best source for some digital music

[Garth]

Of course all this is waaay o/t . and bringing Dylan into the 
discussion doesn't make it less soat least it adds some variety to the 
usual. ((( laughing )))
Even funnier is I find the Dead or Dylan or any like music appalling . 
but I won't let that get in the way of good story.

I have no experience with this website, but you can apparently purchase the 
albums to download the 320kbps mp3(compressed) and flac files(uncompressed, 
comparatively large files).  Mp3's for listening on digital devices and 
flac for either burning to CD or computer listening. 

You'll find relevant albums at the bottom of these pages. 

https://us.7digital.com/artist/jerry-garcia-and-david-grisman

https://us.7digital.com/artist/jerry-garcia-david-grisman-and-tony-rice



On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 10:44:05 PM UTC-5 duh...@gmail.com wrote:

> Patrick
>
> Apologies for using the wrong name above, I was in the dentist waiting 
> room and had a brain fart.
>
> Best
>
> Jared 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 8, 2021, at 10:37 AM, Jared Wilson  wrote:
>
> Hey Paul
>
>
> I had good luck with downloading the Pizza Tape files from Google Drive, 
> not for purchase but available for download for free via a fellow deadhead.
>
> Best
>
> Jared
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 8, 2021, at 10:28 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> Correction: CLiced many times on Download Your Music and it just refreshes 
> the page; nothing happens.
>
> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 11:27 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> I just purchased Shady Grove; "save to cloud." OK. Sales-completed window 
>> has option to check for "download your music." I click on it, I get 
>> Amazon's G-d Amazon Music window offering me a free trial.No sign of my 
>> purchase.
>>
>> Looked on Manage Your Content and Devices. All the books show, no music.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> It's only $10, but still, *$#^$&^#)+
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 8, 2021 at 11:20 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Spoke too soon. Amazon wants to save the album to the cloud. I want to 
>>> save it to my hard drive. Any thoughts on this?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 7, 2021 at 10:25 PM  wrote:
>>>
 Both of those albums are available digitally from Amazon. About $10 
 each. Amazon usually sells their MP3 files at about 256 mbps. Not 
 audiophile quality but decent. These files are able to be downloaded to 
 your pc or streamed through their music app. 

 High quality FLAC downloads are likely available from High Def Tracks 
 and likely at a higher cost. I’ve never used them but many on the music 
 forums I read do with good results.

 https://www.hdtracks.com/

 Robert Tilley
 San Diego, CA

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Nov 7, 2021, at 4:32 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

 
 I grew up with vinyl LPs and transitioned to cassettes (magnetic tape, 
 not HG) and CDs easily enough, but navigating MP3 or whateverthehell 
 current formats are is something I find confusing.

 I'd like to get, in particular, these 2 albums: Jerry Garcia and David 
 Grisman, "Shady Grove," and (ditto), The Pizza Tapes. 

 Is there any *secure and reliable source* from which to pay online by 
 PP or CC and download the whole albums to one's computer?

 Not long ago I bought the Complete Works of JS Bach on 142 or so CDs, 
 and have had to beg and pay people to convert them to files I can store on 
 my computer and on a separate hard drive. 

 In anticipated appreciation of all y'alls help, I append this, which 
 sufficiently proves the reasonableness of my desire.

 Note: This track is pure "just ride" music.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W91XCNix2tg

 Thanks.

 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Night riding

[ascpgh]

I like to separate the arms race of lumens and reflective area on my night 
rides. They are slower, tend to last longer if I'm not on a to-bed schedule 
for early wake up. Not so concerning after this weekend. I was at the dog 
park with my pup and before I really took note of the sunset. 64° was 
headed for the 40°s under the clear skies and I was in shorts, T-shirt and 
a shell.

I've reported on night rides around here before, where there are definitely 
two cultures of dark riding. One that starts around the corner from my 
house has been more of a Dirty Dozen Bike Race 
 training ride and has been running three 
sadomasochistic hours and thirty miles weekly. The other began with my 
friend and me after the regular riding season meeting at that coffee shop 
ended in October. We meander, we invite new to the dark riders, we go 
places the high tempo riders skip for better paces and miles while they 
train for the Dirty Dozen bike Race originated by ultra rider Danny Chew. 
They all tend to be on their road racing bikes with battery lights. I have 
evolved (over 25? years) to dyno hubs, wired LED head and taillights, 
carrying a rechargeable set to back others up in case of a fail. Don't like 
phantom bikes around me unless we're clustering around a rider who's 
batteries died. A few of us continue into the bad weather, be it wet or 
cold. It adds to the challenging character of night riding. Headlights 
redefine a place you ride in the daylight, focussing on what's important 
and redefining all else. 

I like to include photo stops, curious passageways, local sights and 
surprising connections. Food and drink often involved. Too hard for new 
initiates to dark riding to grasp the fast cool of darkness mentioned by 
Denis in NC and adequately provide for full spectrum physical output so we 
try not to get too sweat soaked at any point although everyone's experience 
(effort/perspiration) will vary on any given hill so accommodation is my 
byword. I like to have a big enough bag on my bike to carry extra layers 
("normalizing" items for a restaurant) and a lock for stops.

I commute year round and my days begin and end with my rides before sunrise 
and after sunset for all but about three months and a week or so of the 
year. I pedal each leg allowing myself to be amazed and let some wonderment 
into my head. One neighborhood on my route has made quite a resurgence in 
the fifteen years I've been pedaling through it. Businesses have anchored, 
people have reason to be there and a core of artisans have been promoting a 
"First Fridays" evening sidewalk festival for years now with businesses 
open sidestreets marketplaces sprouted for the night adding to the resident 
restaurants, coffee shops, a tea house and microbrewery. Takes all the 
stress from work out of my head or clears it to begin another day.  

>From rides past:
Tuesday Night Ride 
Another Tuesday Night Ride 
Tuesday Night "Dark Roast" Ride 
Burritos and Bikes Night Ride 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, November 8, 2021 at 6:57:10 PM UTC-5 Adam wrote:

> I tried to post this yesterday, but it doesn't seem to have popped up.
>
> It's the time of year for riding at night. (??) I'd like to hear other 
> folks' strategies and recommendations for fun rides at night.
>
> My rides at night have mostly been 15-20 mile road rides, fairly fast. The 
> main problem I've had is relaxing, especially at higher speeds with the 
> reduced visibility. I've been curious about trail riding but haven't tried 
> it.
>
> thoughts? I'm not buying dynamos right now, but have adequate lights, 
> backups, vest, etc. I'm mostly looking for ride ideas, things not to do, 
> things that are more fun than they sound, etc.
>
> Thanks
>
> Adam
>
>
>

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