[RBW] Re: FS: Rivendell HubbuHubbuH, Medium, Complete

[Jared Wilson]

Okay, lets try $3,000!

On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 3:21:05 PM UTC-7 Jared Wilson wrote:

> Thanks, Bill!
>
> As far as I'm concerned these are the best tandems available today, or any 
> day for that matter, glad to hear you enjoy yours so much.
>
> I was really hopeful someone would grab it before the weekend, but that 
> ship has sailed. Still available for delivery to the Bay Area!
>
> Someone send me a message and let's talk numbers, this is a smokin' deal 
> compared to what it would cost to build one up.
>
> -Jared, who is tired of hitting his head on this bike as it hangs from the 
> rafters, in Central CA.
>
> On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 7:01:29 PM UTC-7 Bill Rhea wrote:
>
>> Jared, I'm feeling your pain at letting this beautiful tandem go!  I have 
>> an orange size M HHH also, and I really hope to never have to sell it 
>> because Leslie really enjoys our little outings on it.  I also had an Ibis 
>> Cousin IT for years but this one rides better, IMO.
>>
>> I hope one of y'all reading will get off the fence and pull the trigger 
>> on this screaming deal already (yeah, you know who you are)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> -br
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 3:11:19 PM UTC-7 duh...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Bump, let's make a deal before the weekend!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 11:41:06 PM UTC-7 Jared Wilson wrote:
>>>
 New price, *$3200 OBO.*

 Can deliver to LA area next weekend (26th-29th) or Bay Area whenever.

 Don't be shy, lets find this amazing tandem a new home just in time for 
 summer :)

 On Wednesday, May 3, 2023 at 4:30:24 PM UTC-7 Jared Wilson wrote:

> And another bump, feel free to make an offer!
>
> On Tuesday, April 25, 2023 at 3:59:36 PM UTC-7 JW wrote:
>
>> *BUMP*
>>
>>
>> *$3,500*
>> On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 7:40:03 PM UTC-7 JW wrote:
>>
>>> Still have the HHH, let's find it a new home!
>>>
>>>
>>> *$3,600 picked up in Central California*
>>> On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 6:41:34 PM UTC-7 JW wrote:
>>>
 *Price drop!*


 *$3,800 delivered to RBW garage sale :)*
 On Saturday, March 11, 2023 at 5:50:16 PM UTC-8 JW wrote:

> Weekend bump!
>
> On Wednesday, March 8, 2023 at 3:42:26 PM UTC-8 JW wrote:
>
>> Hey group,
>>
>> This one hurts, just got it put together but with a pending 
>> upcoming move we won't be able to house this amazing bicycle.
>>
>> I'd say theres about 2 miles from riding around on our farm 
>> getting it dialed in, hasn't been out on the street yet.
>>
>> Specs:
>>
>> Rivendell HubbuHubbuH, Medium, Orange
>> Stock Headset
>> Stock Seatpost
>> Bushnell Eccentric BB in front, (2) Shimano Cartridge BBs
>> Silver 173mm Tandem Cranks
>> MKS XC-III Pedals
>> Skeleton Key Front Derailleur
>> Shimano XT Friction Front Shifter
>> Shimano Altus Rear Derailleur
>> Silver Rear Friction Shifter
>> Hands On Wheels built 27.5" Velocity Cliffhangers
>> Kasai 36H Dynamo Front Hub
>> Velocity 40H Rear Tandem Hub
>> Maxxis Ikon 27.5"x2.2" Tires, Tubeless
>> Shimano 11-36? 9 Speed Cassette
>> Rivendell Tosco 65cm Captain Handlebars
>> Ritchey C220 90mm Stem
>> Nitto Bosco 55cm Stoker Handlebars
>> ControlTech Adjustable Stoker Stem
>> WTB Pure V Captain Saddle
>> Brooks B17 Stoker Saddle
>> Tektro CL740 Brake Levers
>> Shimano Deore BR-T610 V-Brakes
>>
>> Local pickup only, not willing to ship this one. I *can* however 
>> deliver to the Rivendell Garage Sale next weekend on 3/18/23.
>>
>> Asking $4,000.
>>
>> Please respond off list and let's find this beauty a nice warm 
>> home!
>>
>> Thanks :)
>>
>> Jared in SLO, CA
>>
>> [image: IMG_6480.jpg]
>>
>>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/92c23a1e-21d0-4230-b356-562857f1cd1an%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[Garth]

Well here's about the best article I found on the many possibilities of why 
his chain flew off the big ring going over such a relatively small bump. 
The bottom line is that nobody knows. "Stuff happens". 
My best guess is a wonky chainline part, as his model of bike is not spec'd 
as being suitable for 1x. These bikes require one very specific "left side 
only" asymmetrical type of BB, and it's not spec'd for 1x use. Yes, high 
end bikes have gotten very very specific of what can and can't be used on 
them. 

https://en.brujulabike.com/roglic-single-chainring-problem/

In the article SRAM "orbit" dampening system is mentioned. From SRAMs 
website it's not something the rider can turn off or have any say in it's 
function. 

*Orbit* 

*Reducing chain bounce is a crucial need for today’s riders that frequently 
venture off smoothly paved roads. SRAM’s Orbit™ technology, used in SRAM 
RED and Force eTap AXS rear derailleurs, limits chain bounce by controlling 
the chain’s downward movement when riding over bumps.*

*Orbit is a new, patented design that consists of a silicone fluid damper 
with a one-way valve that controls the rear derailleur cage’s 
counter-clockwise rotation. This prevents the lower derailleur pulley from 
moving forward when bumps in the road cause g-force spikes that pull the 
chain downward. The damped cage rotation keeps the drivetrain quiet and 
helps prevent the chain from derailing off the chainring.*

*The beauty of the lightweight Orbit fluid damper is that it is speed 
sensitive—meaning, the harsher the bump, the more resistance it applies to 
keep the chain under control. So, when the derailleur cage rotates 
counter-clockwise slowly—as it does during a downshift to an easier 
rear—the damper offers so little resistance, it’s as if the damper isn’t 
there. This allows you to get the benefits of a mechanical friction-style 
clutch when you need it, without the excessive chain tension these clutch 
types provide when you don’t. It’s the best of both worlds. And it’s a 
maintenance-free design so you spend less time wrenching and more time 
riding.*

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 6:48:23 PM UTC-4 Nick Payne wrote:

> On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 11:23:36 am UTC+10 Garth wrote:
>
> I was watching the uphill penultimate TT road racing stage of the Giro D' 
> Italia this weekend where the eventual winner Primoz Roglic chose to run a 
> 1x for his TT bike. The announcers were "praising" him for the "innovative" 
> choice of using a mtb gearing setup for the TT. Well lo and behold, at a 
> low speed(which is fast for mere mortals, hah hah) he was about 2/3 up the 
> course and he ran over what appeared to be a small break in the road 
> crosswise and his chain derailed off the ring. He put it back on cool as a 
> cucumber and still trounced everyone, but so much for 1x's not failing like 
> any other system, because they do. 
>
>
> I'd say he was either not using a clutch derailleur, or had the clutch 
> disengaged to minimise drivetrain losses. My wife has been using 1x 
> drivetrains for years with clutch derailleurs, on all sorts of road 
> surfaces, and has never had the chain unship. She uses SRAM GX Eagle 1x12 
> on one bike, and Eagle AXS on another.
>
> Nick Payne
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f9e251ae-f15e-49ad-b1f3-b505dc87d12fn%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[Nick Payne]

On Wednesday, 31 May 2023 at 11:23:36 am UTC+10 Garth wrote:

I was watching the uphill penultimate TT road racing stage of the Giro D' 
Italia this weekend where the eventual winner Primoz Roglic chose to run a 
1x for his TT bike. The announcers were "praising" him for the "innovative" 
choice of using a mtb gearing setup for the TT. Well lo and behold, at a 
low speed(which is fast for mere mortals, hah hah) he was about 2/3 up the 
course and he ran over what appeared to be a small break in the road 
crosswise and his chain derailed off the ring. He put it back on cool as a 
cucumber and still trounced everyone, but so much for 1x's not failing like 
any other system, because they do. 


I'd say he was either not using a clutch derailleur, or had the clutch 
disengaged to minimise drivetrain losses. My wife has been using 1x 
drivetrains for years with clutch derailleurs, on all sorts of road 
surfaces, and has never had the chain unship. She uses SRAM GX Eagle 1x12 
on one bike, and Eagle AXS on another.

Nick Payne

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4adfa805-eeb7-438d-8cbd-6bc0c4f2f6c1n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Los Angeles Riv Ride

[Houston Wilson]

It was awesome to ride with y'all!! Hopefully, this will be the first of 
many meet-ups! :) :)

Here's a google drive folder 

 
with some more photos! 

On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 12:00:45 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Good photos; thanks all for sharing. Eric: This one: was this Photoshop or 
>  *graffiti??*
>
> And who did the (digital only?) poster? Well done. I think that the center 
> illustration somewhat jars with the surroundings, but the surroundings are 
> well done: combination of psychedelic and Art Nouveau?
>
> On Mon, May 29, 2023 at 6:16 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> [image: Screenshot 2023-05-29 at 8.14.21 AM.png]
>>
>> On Thursday, April 27, 2023 at 8:32:49 AM UTC-7 Houston Wilson wrote:
>
>> [image: RBWLAMeetup.jpg]
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1b8762a0-3ea1-4924-ac85-71439e1962b1n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: FS: Saddlesack, Ortlieb, Tubus Rack and Schwalbe Marathons

[R Olson]

Ortlieb panniers are gone.  Thanks!

On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 7:40:57 PM UTC-6 R Olson wrote:

> The Tubus rack and Schwalbe tires have sold.  The Ortlieb panniers are 
> still available.
>
> On Sunday, May 28, 2023 at 8:09:27 AM UTC-6 R Olson wrote:
>
>> Saddlesack is sold.  The other items are still available.
>>
>> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 12:30:19 PM UTC-6 R Olson wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, forgot the price for the Schwalbes - $30.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, May 27, 2023 at 12:23:48 PM UTC-6 R Olson wrote:
>>>
 Hi All,

 Selling a few items.  All prices are net to me.  Buyer pays shipping.  
 I have venmo and paypal.

 Saddlesack Large with kangaroo pouch, olive, great shape no tears or 
 rips.  This is the older version they sold prior to the bagboy's, etc.  It 
 is huge and can carry a lot!  $180

 Ortlieb Classic backroll panniers, grey.  Great shape, hardly used, all 
 hardware. $120 for pair.

 Tubus Lowrider front rack. Comes with fork maounting hardware if 
 needed.  I bought this off a lister, but never used it.  $60

 Schwalbe Marathon Supremes, 700 x 50mm.  Only rode these once, so 
 plenty of tread life left.

 PM off list if you're interested.

 Here's a link to a goolge album I put together with all the items.  If 
 it doesn't work, let me know and I can try to fix it or send you photos of 
 the items your interested in.

 https://photos.app.goo.gl/912eMYdR35qJYjug7

 Thanks!

 Ryan




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/458c9f35-4dbb-4305-8eb3-2875c34afe70n%40googlegroups.com.

[RBW] Re: FS: Craigslist, etc 2023

[Ty]

Waterford 54cm Rivendell All Arounder 

 with S 
Couplers at shop in Portland, OR that ships. 
On Thursday, May 25, 2023 at 8:43:20 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> 55cm Romulus in Santa Rosa, CA. 
> 9-speed Dura-Ace triple rear derailer, Berthoud bags, Mark's Rack, that's 
> my first Riv! I sold it in Santa Rosa many years ago, this is a crazy low 
> price for it now but I don't have room for it. Go buy it! 
>
>
> https://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/bik/d/santa-rosa-rivendell-romulus/7624932240.html
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2023 at 8:09:26 AM UTC-7 JAS wrote:
>
>> Roadini, 61cm
>> $2400, Orange!
>> Seattle, WA
>>
>> https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/d/seattle-large-road-bike-rivendell/7611983345.html
>>
>> Romulus, 24"
>> $850
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> https://bellingham.craigslist.org/bik/d/bellingham-rivendell-romulus/7613561566.html
>>
>> Legolas, 59cm
>> $3400
>> Portland, OR area
>>
>> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-legolas-59cm/7612121082.html
>>
>> Atlantis, 61cm
>> $2500
>> Port Townsend, WA
>>
>> https://olympic.craigslist.org/bik/d/nordland-rivendell-atlantis-61cm/7606421089.html
>>
>> Appaloosa, 56cm
>> $2000
>> Portland, OR
>>
>> https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/bik/d/portland-rivendell-joe-appaloosa/7610380104.html
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/93a0f32a-d4e3-40c4-9f21-c991f36ddee1n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[Ted Durant]

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 12:57:57 PM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

Larger diameter cogs and chainrings have less friction because the chain 
does not bend/wrap as much. Not sure how the angle between the front and 
rear impacts the overall friction. But lets say you have two single speed 
bikes - one is a 52-26 and the other is a 26-13 - same gear ratio. The 
52-26 has less friction, but the 26-13 is lighter.

 
That's a good set of secondary considerations to my original thoughts on 
gearing. Along with making it easier to "optimize" steps between gears, 
larger cogs have lower drivetrain losses and, because there is less force 
exerted on the teeth, they wear longer. There is certainly a weight 
trade-off there. Modern, narrow spacing chains seem to handle cross gearing 
pretty well, but I'm sure that marginal gains fans can tell you what the 
power loss is at extreme angles. That seems to be one of the things favored 
by 1x fans - that your chain line is (if setup correctly) in the center of 
the rear cluster and never at the extreme.

I say secondary, but for some riders those factors might have a higher 
priority than they do for me.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI USA

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3dea7359-46a2-49f4-b084-1e731fa087c9n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[lconley]

Larger diameter cogs and chainrings have less friction because the chain 
does not bend/wrap as much. Not sure how the angle between the front and 
rear impacts the overall friction. But lets say you have two single speed 
bikes - one is a 52-26 and the other is a 26-13 - same gear ratio. The 
52-26 has less friction, but the 26-13 is lighter.

Laing

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 1:31:38 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Patrick, Drew and everyone, Eurosport said it was a 44t chainring with a 
> "pie plate" cassette" during the live broadcast, you can see it here : 
> https://www.eurosport.com/cycling/giro-d-italia/2023/primoz-roglic-mechanical-watch-the-moment-giro-ditalia-dreams-crumbled-until-he-stormed-back-to-win_sto9626269/story.shtml
>
> The announcers Rob Hatch and Sean Kelley saying "oh no not again" is in 
> reference to his past history of disastrous things happening to him on in 
> stage races. But he was a champion pro ski jumper before he switched to pro 
> cycling, so no matter what happens it's always "next jump". No time to 
> worry over what was. He's multi Grand Tour winner anyways. That he didn't 
> grow up a bike racer he has no fear of ditching "pro cycling tradition" 
> because it's "next jump", all about  embracing The Present. 
> Sean Kelley saying "we've had the discussion of the one ring, but let's 
> not get into that now" . He was a pro racer in the Lemond days and has a 
> very dry wit about him, he can be very funny ! 
>
>
> So if Drew said SRAM only has the 10-44 then that's what is was. If you 
> ask most racers what their preferred ring is to ride all the time it is 
> inevitably the big ring. A 44t for an uphill TT qualifies as a big(enough) 
> ring. I don't know exactly what it is about riding big rings and big cogs 
> but it just feels more efficient than a small ring. Pros will often ride up 
> mountains in the big ring and largest cog, which can be anywhere from a 
> 53/34 to a 50/28 and the like. I know on my road bike my favorite uphill 
> combo is a 46/28 for as long as I can take it. I have a 32 max but I guess 
> I'm too cautious to ride that ! 
>
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/27b773cd-db17-457b-b154-cf818ab7b14en%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[Garth]

Patrick, Drew and everyone, Eurosport said it was a 44t chainring with a 
"pie plate" cassette" during the live broadcast, you can see it here : 
https://www.eurosport.com/cycling/giro-d-italia/2023/primoz-roglic-mechanical-watch-the-moment-giro-ditalia-dreams-crumbled-until-he-stormed-back-to-win_sto9626269/story.shtml

The announcers Rob Hatch and Sean Kelley saying "oh no not again" is in 
reference to his past history of disastrous things happening to him on in 
stage races. But he was a champion pro ski jumper before he switched to pro 
cycling, so no matter what happens it's always "next jump". No time to 
worry over what was. He's multi Grand Tour winner anyways. That he didn't 
grow up a bike racer he has no fear of ditching "pro cycling tradition" 
because it's "next jump", all about  embracing The Present. 
Sean Kelley saying "we've had the discussion of the one ring, but let's not 
get into that now" . He was a pro racer in the Lemond days and has a very 
dry wit about him, he can be very funny ! 


So if Drew said SRAM only has the 10-44 then that's what is was. If you ask 
most racers what their preferred ring is to ride all the time it is 
inevitably the big ring. A 44t for an uphill TT qualifies as a big(enough) 
ring. I don't know exactly what it is about riding big rings and big cogs 
but it just feels more efficient than a small ring. Pros will often ride up 
mountains in the big ring and largest cog, which can be anywhere from a 
53/34 to a 50/28 and the like. I know on my road bike my favorite uphill 
combo is a 46/28 for as long as I can take it. I have a 32 max but I guess 
I'm too cautious to ride that ! 



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/26e4f75f-6c79-42f0-9783-0f1723489299n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[Patrick Moore]

That 9 speed is very close to the home-brew 10 I'm using; simply add an
outer 13 and 10 speed cogs, tho mine goes 19-20-22-25; the difference is
minor. I'll have to remember that particular cassette.

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 10:47 AM Ken Yokanovich <
reflector.collec...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am a big fan of the Shimano HG50 14-25 9 speed cassettes:
> (14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25T) paired with a 42T ring for a 1x drivetrain or
> 44/30 2x drivetrain
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgthisiKnctOOQAF6UJ5HGZF-RELFGygGV0n-93oOxEzew%40mail.gmail.com.

[RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[Ken Yokanovich]

I am a big fan of the Shimano HG50 14-25 9 speed cassettes:  
(14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25T) paired with a 42T ring for a 1x drivetrain or 
44/30 2x drivetrain

On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 12:55:27 PM UTC-5 Ted Durant wrote:

> Hi All -
>
> Leah's "Getting Over My Head" thread seems to have evolved into a gearing 
> thread. I retired from a career in data mining and statistical modeling, so 
> you can just imagine how much time I've wasted on "optimizing" bicycle 
> gearing. 
>
> Here's the TL;DR version: it's impossible to optimize gearing, so stop 
> sweating it.
>
> The slightly longer version is that we are locked into integer tooth 
> counts; when the optimal cog is 14.5 teeth, that ain't an option! So, we 
> are forced into compromising or, better yet, satisficing. 
>
> There are essentially three key points we are trying to fix with gears: 
> the lowest low, the highest high, and the steps in between. Given those, we 
> then try create a system that reliably and easily shifts among the gears. 
> For me, a 2x system using components available today provides the best 
> combination of low-low, high-high, steps in between, simplicity, 
> consistency, and reliability. But that depends highly on the chain, the 
> chainrings, and the front derailer playing nicely together. It also works 
> for me because I use it as 2 gearing ranges, one for flats and downhills, 
> the other for long, steeper uphills.
>
> The lowest low and the highest high are pretty straightforward, and plenty 
> of ink has been spilled on how to choose those, so there's no point in 
> elaborating on that. It's the "steps in between" part that drives us wild. 
> In theory, we think, we'd like to have perfectly even steps between the 
> high and low. In practice, though, 1) that's simply not possible with a 
> cog-and-chain drivetrain, and 2) it might not even be that desirable. A lot 
> of riders, myself included, find that we prefer smaller steps between gears 
> in the range in which we normally ride, and larger steps out in the 
> extremes. 
>
> What I definitely don't like is having a big difference between 3 adjacent 
> cogs in the middle of my cruising range. For example, a 1-tooth difference 
> one way and a 2-tooth difference the other. Unfortunately, this is a common 
> occurrence in large cog count cassettes with tiny small cogs - they go from 
> a 1-tooth difference to a 2-tooth difference near the middle of the 
> cluster. That's twice the amount of reduction/increase in effort. So, when 
> I'm looking at cassettes, I'm looking for ones where that 1-to-2 transition 
> occurs as close to the small cog as I can get it. A major factor here is 
> the movement to smaller smallest cogs, which has gone from 14 to 10 in my 
> time. Starting from 11 (or, God forbid, 10!) you use a lot of cogs to get 
> to the point where 2-tooth steps start to make sense.
>
> On the other hand, those small smallest cogs mean we can use small outer 
> chainrings, and that's something of a boon if your front derailer can 
> handle it, because it means we can also use smaller inner rings on a 2x to 
> get sufficiently low gearing. The difference between chainrings is worth 
> examining a bit. Typical road double front derailers have a 16-tooth max 
> difference specification, which derives from the standard "compact double" 
> 50-34. That's a 39% difference, which is a pretty big jump, roughly 3.3x 
> the average jump on the cassettes often paired with those chainrings. So, 
> shifting up front is the equivalent of around 3 1/3 cogs in back. On my 
> Waterford I use a 42-tooth large ring, and a 26-tooth small ring is 16t 
> smaller, but that's a whopping 48% difference, which is 5x the average jump 
> on my cassette. Piaw mentioned going with smaller tooth differences up 
> front, and there's a good example of why. When I built my Breadwinner I 
> went with 44x32 up front, a 32% difference that is 3.1x the average 
> difference on the cassette. I find that to be a much less disruptive change 
> than on my Waterford. The front chainring difference as a multiple of the 
> average in back turned out to be a significant factor for me. Sure, it 
> means I have more overlap in gears, but that's less important to me than 
> the change in cadence caused by shifting.
>
> One last consideration as I'm designing a drivetrain is that I want my 
> preferred cruising gear near the center of the rear cogs, maybe a little 
> closer to the small end, so that I can be on the large ring for most of my 
> riding around home. That's around a 5.0 gain ratio for me now, which is the 
> 42x17 on my Waterford. And, as noted, I want a consistent difference above 
> and below that gear, which means, for me, a 2-tooth change on each side of 
> it. 
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 

Re: [RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Drew. I watched the Twitter video; pretty steep even with a 1:1!

I looked for a clip of Coppi or Bartali climbing similar cols in their 46 X
19 or whatever low gears were back then (someone told me but I can't find
the email now) but couldn't find one in the first 5 minutes, so gave up.

On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 9:54 AM Drew Saunders 
wrote:

> This article:
> https://road.cc/content/tech-news/primoz-roglic-uses-gravel-gearing-decisive-giro-tt-301511
> Says he used the "XPLR-1271" from SRAM, which only offers a 10-44
> (10,11,13,15,17,19,21,24,28,32,38,44) cassette, with even chainrings
> between 38 through 46, most likely a 44. I don't know if there are better
> articles on what he ended up using but with a 44t ring, that's a 4.4:1
> through 1:1 range.
>
> On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 7:27:29 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Garth: Do you by any chance know what cog combination or what a typical
>> cog combination would be for such a climb by a pro? I'll be he didn't use a
>> 52 t inner cog and that he had a pretty close spread in the center of the
>> cassette, but would be happy to be proved right or wrong by evidence.
>>
>> As to 1Xs for pro racing: with 11 or 12 cogs, do pros need to shift
>> between rings at all, even using 2Xs, except at major terrain transitions?
>>
>> I got my collection of 10 sp Miche cogs at Cycle Clinic in the UK.
>>
>> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 7:23 PM Garth  wrote:
>>
>>> I was watching the uphill penultimate TT road racing stage of the Giro
>>> D' Italia this weekend where the eventual winner Primoz Roglic chose to run
>>> a 1x for his TT bike. The announcers were "praising" him for the
>>> "innovative" choice of using a mtb gearing setup for the TT. Well lo and
>>> behold, at a low speed(which is fast for mere mortals, hah hah) he was
>>> about 2/3 up the course and he ran over what appeared to be a small break
>>> in the road crosswise and his chain derailed off the ring. He put it back
>>> on cool as a cucumber and still trounced everyone, but so much for 1x's not
>>> failing like any other system, because they do.
>>>
>>> I also ran across a video of a "pro" mechanic touting stuff he likes. I
>>> was with him on some things, then he mention that cables were so passe',
>>> and that the way to go is electronic shifting and 1x. A lifetime of buying
>>> failing batteries, waning replacements, software updates and subscription
>>> fees  yummm ... doesn't that sound appealing ?
>>>
>>> In regards to cassette cogs, the Miche 8-11sp are available from
>>> European websites, let your fingers do the walkin'. Also, Sunrace 7-9 speed
>>> lower end cassettes(no spiders) are all held together with removable pins.
>>> Find a backside photo of the potential cassette and you can confirm it.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/94e4b0af-bdfb-4307-999c-c5ad38971f9dn%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b9af1a2e-f105-41b5-8ee4-945280ab0583n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgtQ5XLVxO%3Dk8eUZYEbUUSGQWszADaWOfpjiPCiPoUqAAA%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[Drew Saunders]

This 
article: 
https://road.cc/content/tech-news/primoz-roglic-uses-gravel-gearing-decisive-giro-tt-301511
Says he used the "XPLR-1271" from SRAM, which only offers a 10-44 
(10,11,13,15,17,19,21,24,28,32,38,44) cassette, with even chainrings 
between 38 through 46, most likely a 44. I don't know if there are better 
articles on what he ended up using but with a 44t ring, that's a 4.4:1 
through 1:1 range. 

On Wednesday, May 31, 2023 at 7:27:29 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Garth: Do you by any chance know what cog combination or what a typical 
> cog combination would be for such a climb by a pro? I'll be he didn't use a 
> 52 t inner cog and that he had a pretty close spread in the center of the 
> cassette, but would be happy to be proved right or wrong by evidence.
>
> As to 1Xs for pro racing: with 11 or 12 cogs, do pros need to shift 
> between rings at all, even using 2Xs, except at major terrain transitions?
>
> I got my collection of 10 sp Miche cogs at Cycle Clinic in the UK.
>
> On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 7:23 PM Garth  wrote:
>
>> I was watching the uphill penultimate TT road racing stage of the Giro D' 
>> Italia this weekend where the eventual winner Primoz Roglic chose to run a 
>> 1x for his TT bike. The announcers were "praising" him for the 
>> "innovative" choice of using a mtb gearing setup for the TT. Well lo and 
>> behold, at a low speed(which is fast for mere mortals, hah hah) he was 
>> about 2/3 up the course and he ran over what appeared to be a small break 
>> in the road crosswise and his chain derailed off the ring. He put it back 
>> on cool as a cucumber and still trounced everyone, but so much for 1x's not 
>> failing like any other system, because they do. 
>>
>> I also ran across a video of a "pro" mechanic touting stuff he likes. I 
>> was with him on some things, then he mention that cables were so passe',  
>> and that the way to go is electronic shifting and 1x. A lifetime of buying 
>> failing batteries, waning replacements, software updates and subscription 
>> fees  yummm ... doesn't that sound appealing ? 
>>
>> In regards to cassette cogs, the Miche 8-11sp are available from European 
>> websites, let your fingers do the walkin'. Also, Sunrace 7-9 speed lower 
>> end cassettes(no spiders) are all held together with removable pins. Find a 
>> backside photo of the potential cassette and you can confirm it. 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/94e4b0af-bdfb-4307-999c-c5ad38971f9dn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b9af1a2e-f105-41b5-8ee4-945280ab0583n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Gearing (was Getting Over My Head)

[Patrick Moore]

Garth: Do you by any chance know what cog combination or what a typical cog
combination would be for such a climb by a pro? I'll be he didn't use a 52
t inner cog and that he had a pretty close spread in the center of the
cassette, but would be happy to be proved right or wrong by evidence.

As to 1Xs for pro racing: with 11 or 12 cogs, do pros need to shift between
rings at all, even using 2Xs, except at major terrain transitions?

I got my collection of 10 sp Miche cogs at Cycle Clinic in the UK.

On Tue, May 30, 2023 at 7:23 PM Garth  wrote:

> I was watching the uphill penultimate TT road racing stage of the Giro D'
> Italia this weekend where the eventual winner Primoz Roglic chose to run a
> 1x for his TT bike. The announcers were "praising" him for the
> "innovative" choice of using a mtb gearing setup for the TT. Well lo and
> behold, at a low speed(which is fast for mere mortals, hah hah) he was
> about 2/3 up the course and he ran over what appeared to be a small break
> in the road crosswise and his chain derailed off the ring. He put it back
> on cool as a cucumber and still trounced everyone, but so much for 1x's not
> failing like any other system, because they do.
>
> I also ran across a video of a "pro" mechanic touting stuff he likes. I
> was with him on some things, then he mention that cables were so passe',
> and that the way to go is electronic shifting and 1x. A lifetime of buying
> failing batteries, waning replacements, software updates and subscription
> fees  yummm ... doesn't that sound appealing ?
>
> In regards to cassette cogs, the Miche 8-11sp are available from European
> websites, let your fingers do the walkin'. Also, Sunrace 7-9 speed lower
> end cassettes(no spiders) are all held together with removable pins. Find a
> backside photo of the potential cassette and you can confirm it.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/94e4b0af-bdfb-4307-999c-c5ad38971f9dn%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgsQn3c6Ybw1bjRd5yU53sL7b5GSaoyB0nGd4v%2BqQ58Oyg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [RBW] Riv-inspired off-road bike

[ascpgh]

Maestro 1°, old Mike, did the stay bridge repair on my Rambouillet when the 
original brazing broke loose, he was between heart those attacks at that 
point and why I had to look elsewhere I was looking for a builder to make 
me an under square custom bike as his plate was already fuller than he 
could likely address.

Builders that find their way and will have gone through evolutions that 
start with individual features, materials and design details that are 
commonplace and as they perfect their execution of their vision will derive 
their own expression of those from all of their insight practice and 
hopefully feedback. A frame that holds the back wheel, BB, seat post and 
fork of defined dimension may be "custom" or differ from stock models but 
the beauty of the bike will come from the seamless integration and 
presentation of all of those individual inspirations. Single ideas or 
several deviations from 'standards" that haven't been smoothly worked in to 
a design will stick out a bit.  

Maestro 2° may find his way but will have to balance attracting customers 
and branching from what is already out there and accepted. He is in charge 
of the pitch of his own slope in this climb. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 8:41:10 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Interesting article for sure. Kind of lost me at “suspension corrected” 
> but still interesting. On the subject of Susie vs. Gus; when both frames 
> were available Grant said in his description that there was “no ride 
> difference” between the two. I don’t know, having only ridden the Gus. I 
> think the Gus is a very capable MTB. Perhaps not the best choice for really 
> aggressive riding but pretty darn perfect for the trails I ride & the way I 
> ride them. Also, the v brakes are definitely up to the task.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 29, 2023, at 4:03 PM, Joe D.  wrote:
>
> Here's a neat article about a rider and frame builder inspired by Riv's 
> Susie Longbolts: 
>
>
> https://bikepacking.com/bikes/maestro-rat-snake-prototype/
>
> It makes me wonder what their impression would be of a stiffer Rivendell 
> Hillibike, like the Atlantis or especially Gus Boots Wilson.
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1c1d2f49-e398-4c2d-9573-5033955c87fbn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/82e00c99-1aef-4ce3-8fa3-dedc0b0c2096n%40googlegroups.com.