Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Paul G]

One thing, I think, that separates Riv road bikes from other brands is the 
maintaining of good fit AND handling geometry at the smaller frame sizes 
this thread is dealing with. The 700c wheel size has to be dealt with 
because they physically "get in the way" of good geometry more as the 
frames become smaller (because the wheels stay the same size).

Regarding the Roadeo specifically, this frame was designed with club 
riding, and even tight peloton riding, in mind so the maneuverability is 
the quickest of all the Riv road bikes. Moreover, sizes smaller than 59cm 
get thinner, superlight tubing (down to 4mm bellies) in the main triangle. 
This is assuming the current models still adhere to the original design. So 
it's lighter and perhaps more lively than the equivalent Roadini. Finally, 
it has more of the look of a classic road bike with its nearly level top 
tube.

So the Roadeo becomes more unique from the other models in the smaller 
sizes. 

I've been riding a Roadeo for 10 years now and love it.

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 6:02:56 PM UTC-7 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> [image: Screenshot 2024-04-25 at 6.00.23 PM.png]
> @Leah -- Your Platypii are 55's, no? Might be fun to compare the numbers. 
> ;)
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 4:45:35 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Wow, I show up late and there are ten thousand replies already which is 
>> too many to read through now 
>>
>> My initial thought is that going from the racing platy's very upright 
>> position all the way to a drop bar road bike is a huge jump. I have to say, 
>> drop bars are truly the best in headwinds, but getting a sweep bar setup 
>> that allows you to get low and stretch out reaching the forward 'hooks' can 
>> be a great compromise between those situations and lower-effort riding.  
>>
>> If it were me, I'd swap the Rasplaty's bar and stem to the longest of the 
>> new 90-190 stems and a Choco bar; I'd then set up the controls so that you 
>> can slide your hands all the way to the front curves without having stuff 
>> in the way (bar end shifters are great for this!) and wrap this area in 
>> Newbaums.  Then I'd slam the stem down as low as you can get away with - 
>> bars nearly at saddle level, probably. 
>>
>> I don't know if this exact thing has already been said, nor what reaction 
>> may already have been provided, so apologies if I'm being an echo!  Pocket 
>> Platy might actually be short enough you can run drop bars on it, but you'd 
>> need a very short stem to pull it off - the Nitto / Crust 'BJ' stem should 
>> do the trick; it's what I used to get my Bombadil set up with drops at an 
>> appropriate reach for me and has that classic Nitto finish and quality. 
>>
>>   
>>
>> On Thursday 25 April 2024 at 10:47:38 UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Bending those "BL" rules forced me to concede that the front derailleur 
>>> I chose for my 3x1 build was too crappy.  I kind of smugly used the 
>>> crappiest front derailleur in my bin, because friction shifted front 
>>> derailleurs are a dime a dozen.  The crappiest one (old Deer Head) proved 
>>> to be too crappy.  Thanks to this ride I tossed the bike in the stand and 
>>> put a much nicer FD on there, and now my 3x1 Rom (code name "RoadTrio") 
>>> satisfies another VERY important category.  That category is "every bike 
>>> should have one Campy part".  Now with a Mirage Triple FD, RoadTrio is in 
>>> the club.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:52:35 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It’s an honor to have the Bill Lindsay Rules bent for our delight here. 
 We await. Bated breath, and all that jazz!

 On Apr 23, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

 "Let’s both Rom-ride this summer! We could even do it in Michigan! "


 I need to grab a bike right now to head over to the dentist.  I'm going 
 to break my own self-imposed rule and ride my Romulus on its first ride. 
  Pics will prove it.

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA


 On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 1:02:31 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
 wrote:

> Let’s both Rom-ride this summer! We could even do it in Michigan! 
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:46 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
> I think that falls into Joe Bernard's recommendation of taking a 
> flyer on a used Rivendell at decent price.  Love it if you can and sell 
> it 
> if you find you can't love it.  Go for it if you can stand over it. 
>
>
> I bought a used 59cm Romulus this year, and built it but haven't 
> ridden it, because of my weird self-imposed mileage quota system.  But I 
> will be Rom-riding this summer!
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 12:33:00 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 

[RBW] Re: Rivendells in South Korea

[Tony Lockhart]

Good stuff, Marcus. I like your storytelling sensibilitiesKind of feels 
like I'm travelling while watching your films due to the variety of content 
you share. I also appreciate the bike checks you add.

Keep up the good work!

On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 5:17:19 PM UTC-7 probablyri...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi
> Riv had been on my radar for a while but was a bit out of my price range 
> for a while. Before I bought a Riv, I built up my Velo Orange Polyvalent 
> just before covid and really got back in to riding bikes every day for 
> commuting, groceries and camping adventures. I bought a Clem during the 
> bike boom and realised what all the fuss is about with Rivendell bikes! 
> Since then I also bought a Toyo canti Romulus and a Waterford Atlantis, 
> both second hand. No Riv dealer here so I bought all from the USA with some 
> help from a friend who lives in LA.
>
> Considering a Susie now my wife has got into riding my Clem :)
>
> On Tuesday 23 April 2024 at 21:43:16 UTC+9 ezre...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Marcus,
>> I've been eating up all your videos ever since your channel was linked 
>> here before! How did you discover Rivendell?  Was it back home in England 
>> or there in South Korea? Is there a Riv dealer in Seoul? A bike shop visit 
>> would be an interesting video, especially if they have Riv or similar stuff.
>> Ezri
>>
>> On Sunday, April 21, 2024 at 1:10:28 PM UTC-4 probablyri...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello fellow Rivendell enthusiasts,
>>>
>>> I'm Marcus, I live in Seoul, South Korea and am probably riding one of 
>>> my Rivs around. I recently started a Youtube channel and thought some 
>>> people on here might be interested in seeing it. I have some bike checks of 
>>> my Clem, Romulus, Atlantis and Velo Orange Polyvalent but it's mostly 
>>> showcasing what cycling in Korea is like. 
>>>
>>> I hope it's ok to post here and hope you enjoy!  Probably Riding - 
>>> YouTube 
>>>
>>> Thanks for all of your discussions on this group!
>>>
>>> Marcus
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Centerpull vs V-Brakes in terms of maintenance and use

[Robert Calton]

Thank you for all the insight, folks. I just pulled the trigger on my first 
Riv, one that comes with Paul centerpulls. So I will do a deep-dive into 
this type of brake to learn as much as I can about them. Cheers!

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 8:14:24 PM UTC-4 Eric Daume wrote:

> I have to admit, my only centerpull experience is with bolt on Dia Compes 
> and Weimnmans, none of the fancy brakes.
>
> Then again, blue collar V brakes work great.
>
> Eric
>
> On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 7:55 PM Josiah Anderson  
> wrote:
>
>> I agree both with Bill's "it depends" and Eric's "(some) centerpulls are 
>> spooky weak when wet." That depends on the centerpulls. DC750s, for 
>> example, I would agree are marginal-to-dangerous when wet, which I 
>> attribute to their flexy arms and low mechanical advantage. Mafac Racers 
>> and Raids, however, are the equal of any brake I've used, dry or wet or 
>> icy, *when set up well* and with salmon pads. I have not used René Herse 
>> centerpulls, but since they're basically Raid copies I'd expect them to be 
>> excellent as well, which matches what I've heard about them. V-brakes seem 
>> to have fewer possibilities for variation in performance because they're so 
>> standardized in design and simple to set up, and therefore people don't 
>> experience bad ones as often. Bad v-brakes do exist but they usually come 
>> from Walmart.
>>
>> Josiah Anderson
>> Missoula, MT
>>
>> Le jeu. 25 avr. 2024 à 15:28, Eric Daume  a écrit :
>>
>>> Bill says “it depends,” but I can only offer my experience, which is 
>>> that both are adequate in the dry, but centerpulls are spooky weak when the 
>>> rims are wet. Centerpulls do look nicer, but in every performance category, 
>>> V brakes are a clear and easy win for me. 
>>>
>>> Eric
>>> V brake fan 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024, Robert Calton  wrote:
>>>
 I'm curious what the differences are between these two types of brakes 
 with regards to their respective maintenance and general use. Is one 
 easier 
 to adjust and keep in good riding order than the other? Does one feel 
 fundamentally different than the other during the ride? 

 I've read that "stopping power" is greater on v-brakes, but is it 
 really *that* much better to hold out for a frame that supports 
 v-brakes? Are there other factors I'm overlooking other than stopping 
 power? I wouldn't run more than 43mm tires and fenders.  

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Re: [RBW] Centerpull vs V-Brakes in terms of maintenance and use

[Eric Daume]

I have to admit, my only centerpull experience is with bolt on Dia Compes
and Weimnmans, none of the fancy brakes.

Then again, blue collar V brakes work great.

Eric

On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 7:55 PM Josiah Anderson 
wrote:

> I agree both with Bill's "it depends" and Eric's "(some) centerpulls are
> spooky weak when wet." That depends on the centerpulls. DC750s, for
> example, I would agree are marginal-to-dangerous when wet, which I
> attribute to their flexy arms and low mechanical advantage. Mafac Racers
> and Raids, however, are the equal of any brake I've used, dry or wet or
> icy, *when set up well* and with salmon pads. I have not used René Herse
> centerpulls, but since they're basically Raid copies I'd expect them to be
> excellent as well, which matches what I've heard about them. V-brakes seem
> to have fewer possibilities for variation in performance because they're so
> standardized in design and simple to set up, and therefore people don't
> experience bad ones as often. Bad v-brakes do exist but they usually come
> from Walmart.
>
> Josiah Anderson
> Missoula, MT
>
> Le jeu. 25 avr. 2024 à 15:28, Eric Daume  a écrit :
>
>> Bill says “it depends,” but I can only offer my experience, which is that
>> both are adequate in the dry, but centerpulls are spooky weak when the rims
>> are wet. Centerpulls do look nicer, but in every performance category, V
>> brakes are a clear and easy win for me.
>>
>> Eric
>> V brake fan
>>
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024, Robert Calton  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm curious what the differences are between these two types of brakes
>>> with regards to their respective maintenance and general use. Is one easier
>>> to adjust and keep in good riding order than the other? Does one feel
>>> fundamentally different than the other during the ride?
>>>
>>> I've read that "stopping power" is greater on v-brakes, but is it really
>>> *that* much better to hold out for a frame that supports v-brakes? Are
>>> there other factors I'm overlooking other than stopping power? I wouldn't
>>> run more than 43mm tires and fenders.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3ff06334-3200-4b90-abac-429c0b877fe2n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Centerpull vs V-Brakes in terms of maintenance and use

[Josiah Anderson]

I agree both with Bill's "it depends" and Eric's "(some) centerpulls are
spooky weak when wet." That depends on the centerpulls. DC750s, for
example, I would agree are marginal-to-dangerous when wet, which I
attribute to their flexy arms and low mechanical advantage. Mafac Racers
and Raids, however, are the equal of any brake I've used, dry or wet or
icy, *when set up well* and with salmon pads. I have not used René Herse
centerpulls, but since they're basically Raid copies I'd expect them to be
excellent as well, which matches what I've heard about them. V-brakes seem
to have fewer possibilities for variation in performance because they're so
standardized in design and simple to set up, and therefore people don't
experience bad ones as often. Bad v-brakes do exist but they usually come
from Walmart.

Josiah Anderson
Missoula, MT

Le jeu. 25 avr. 2024 à 15:28, Eric Daume  a écrit :

> Bill says “it depends,” but I can only offer my experience, which is that
> both are adequate in the dry, but centerpulls are spooky weak when the rims
> are wet. Centerpulls do look nicer, but in every performance category, V
> brakes are a clear and easy win for me.
>
> Eric
> V brake fan
>
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024, Robert Calton  wrote:
>
>> I'm curious what the differences are between these two types of brakes
>> with regards to their respective maintenance and general use. Is one easier
>> to adjust and keep in good riding order than the other? Does one feel
>> fundamentally different than the other during the ride?
>>
>> I've read that "stopping power" is greater on v-brakes, but is it really
>> *that* much better to hold out for a frame that supports v-brakes? Are
>> there other factors I'm overlooking other than stopping power? I wouldn't
>> run more than 43mm tires and fenders.
>>
>> --
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Jason Fuller]

Wow, I show up late and there are ten thousand replies already which is too 
many to read through now 

My initial thought is that going from the racing platy's very upright 
position all the way to a drop bar road bike is a huge jump. I have to say, 
drop bars are truly the best in headwinds, but getting a sweep bar setup 
that allows you to get low and stretch out reaching the forward 'hooks' can 
be a great compromise between those situations and lower-effort riding.  

If it were me, I'd swap the Rasplaty's bar and stem to the longest of the 
new 90-190 stems and a Choco bar; I'd then set up the controls so that you 
can slide your hands all the way to the front curves without having stuff 
in the way (bar end shifters are great for this!) and wrap this area in 
Newbaums.  Then I'd slam the stem down as low as you can get away with - 
bars nearly at saddle level, probably. 

I don't know if this exact thing has already been said, nor what reaction 
may already have been provided, so apologies if I'm being an echo!  Pocket 
Platy might actually be short enough you can run drop bars on it, but you'd 
need a very short stem to pull it off - the Nitto / Crust 'BJ' stem should 
do the trick; it's what I used to get my Bombadil set up with drops at an 
appropriate reach for me and has that classic Nitto finish and quality. 

  

On Thursday 25 April 2024 at 10:47:38 UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Bending those "BL" rules forced me to concede that the front derailleur I 
> chose for my 3x1 build was too crappy.  I kind of smugly used the crappiest 
> front derailleur in my bin, because friction shifted front derailleurs are 
> a dime a dozen.  The crappiest one (old Deer Head) proved to be too crappy. 
>  Thanks to this ride I tossed the bike in the stand and put a much nicer FD 
> on there, and now my 3x1 Rom (code name "RoadTrio") satisfies another VERY 
> important category.  That category is "every bike should have one Campy 
> part".  Now with a Mirage Triple FD, RoadTrio is in the club.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:52:35 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> It’s an honor to have the Bill Lindsay Rules bent for our delight here. 
>> We await. Bated breath, and all that jazz!
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>> "Let’s both Rom-ride this summer! We could even do it in Michigan! "
>>
>>
>> I need to grab a bike right now to head over to the dentist.  I'm going 
>> to break my own self-imposed rule and ride my Romulus on its first ride. 
>>  Pics will prove it.
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 1:02:31 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Let’s both Rom-ride this summer! We could even do it in Michigan! 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:46 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>>
>>> I think that falls into Joe Bernard's recommendation of taking a flyer 
>>> on a used Rivendell at decent price.  Love it if you can and sell it if you 
>>> find you can't love it.  Go for it if you can stand over it. 
>>>
>>>
>>> I bought a used 59cm Romulus this year, and built it but haven't ridden 
>>> it, because of my weird self-imposed mileage quota system.  But I will be 
>>> Rom-riding this summer!
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 12:33:00 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?

 On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:

 

 Get an old one like a Rambouillet for true road-ability.  The early 
 Rivs are the best if you are into club riding.  I love my Clem for being 
 versatile but I have ridden over 20,000 Km of brevets on my 90s Riv Road 
 Standard or custom, not sure which. I bought it used.  I have mine 650B 
 converted, run 650Bx38 with the Tektro long, long reach brakes, 55-73 
 reach, IIRC.  There's several others in the forum that have theirs done 
 this way as well.

 Jim
 Austin, TX burbs

 On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
 jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
> ideal. 
>
> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know 
> what 
> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have 
> before. 
> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>
> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does 
> take a toll on me 

[RBW] Re: Centerpull vs V-Brakes in terms of maintenance and use

[Bob]

My pertinent experience (including, for completeness, cantilevers):

   - V-brakes: Tektro 834A around 40 mm tires and fenders did indeed have 
   good stopping power, except in winter before the rims and pads warmed up 
   and dried off a little. A significant number of times when I disconnected 
   the noodle in order to remove the wheel, I had trouble getting the brake 
   centered after installing the wheel and reconnecting the noodle. This was 
   no doubt due to my own ignorance, but nevertheless it was annoying.
   - Centerpull, bolt-on: Paul Racer around 38 mm tires and fenders stopped 
   fine and, just as some users have claimed, seemed to have better modulation 
   than any other brakes I've used. I should note that I never rode the bike 
   with these brakes in really bad weather, so I have no idea how the brakes 
   would have done in winter. Always easy to center after having disconnected 
   the straddle cable to facilitate wheel removal, or even after removing the 
   brake, installing a fender, and reinstalling the brake. It was so easy I 
   thought I was doing something wrong.
   - Centerpull, direct mount: Compass/René Herse around 42 mm tires and 
   fender stop fine with excellent modulation, and have always been easy to 
   center after disconnecting the straddle cable. 
   - Cantilever: Paul Neo-Retro/Touring Canti around 54 mm tires and 
   fenders stop brilliantly with good modulation, though maybe not with as 
   good modulation as centerpulls. Stop well even in crappy winter weather. I 
   don't find cantilevers difficult to adjust to my taste, but they're not as 
   easy as centerpulls. Again, all impressions may be due to ignorance.

In short, v-brakes felt more "grabby" to me, but occasionally were harder 
to adjust; while centerpulls, though maybe not *quite* as good at stopping 
quickly, have better modulation and are easier to adjust. Could be that my 
experience with v-brakes would be better with a different v-brake, like a 
Shimano or Paul Motolite; and that my experience with centerpulls would be 
less pleasant in a wider variety of conditions.

--
Bob
On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 10:13:58 AM UTC-6 nca...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm curious what the differences are between these two types of brakes 
> with regards to their respective maintenance and general use. Is one easier 
> to adjust and keep in good riding order than the other? Does one feel 
> fundamentally different than the other during the ride? 
>
> I've read that "stopping power" is greater on v-brakes, but is it really 
> *that* much better to hold out for a frame that supports v-brakes? Are 
> there other factors I'm overlooking other than stopping power? I wouldn't 
> run more than 43mm tires and fenders. 

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Re: [RBW] Centerpull vs V-Brakes in terms of maintenance and use

[Eric Daume]

Bill says “it depends,” but I can only offer my experience, which is that
both are adequate in the dry, but centerpulls are spooky weak when the rims
are wet. Centerpulls do look nicer, but in every performance category, V
brakes are a clear and easy win for me.

Eric
V brake fan

On Thursday, April 25, 2024, Robert Calton  wrote:

> I'm curious what the differences are between these two types of brakes
> with regards to their respective maintenance and general use. Is one easier
> to adjust and keep in good riding order than the other? Does one feel
> fundamentally different than the other during the ride?
>
> I've read that "stopping power" is greater on v-brakes, but is it really
> *that* much better to hold out for a frame that supports v-brakes? Are
> there other factors I'm overlooking other than stopping power? I wouldn't
> run more than 43mm tires and fenders.
>
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[RBW] Re: FS: Nitto Bosco 58, Albatross Aluminum, 11cm stem, 700x50 Big Ben Tires

[exliontamer]

$OLD

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 1:19:07 AM UTC-5 exliontamer wrote:

> Trying to sell this as a lot since I happen to have a big enough box. 
>
> * Bosco bars are barely used. 58cm heat treated aluminum
> * Albatross bars are well loved but structurally perfect. 55cm heat 
> treated aluminum
> * Nitto 11cm 25.4 stem. Not sure if it's a Technomic Deluxe or a Pearl. 
> The quill is long but seems to be a bit shorter than the ones Riv sells. 
> * 2 x Schwalbe 700x50 Big Ben tires. Barely ridden.
>  
> $200 shipped in the lower 48 for everything
>
> [image: IMG_5546.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Long wheelbase = long chain

[Piaw Na]

You can't do that if you're using 11s or more. Rejoining 11s and up chains 
using a chain breaker is not recommended. My "trick" is to buy 11s chains 
at $10/pop when they go on sale once a year and a bunch of quick links at 
the same time.

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:31:11 AM UTC-7 Armand Kizirian wrote:

> If you have certainty that you won't swap a drivetrain, simply buy two 
> chains. The second chain will be enough to populate several chain 
> replacements, granted they are of the same chain. No need to use two quick 
> links either, if you have a chain breaker and know how to use it. 
>
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:18:44 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Count how many links you have now. Call Will & Riv & he will use their 
>> bulk chain to send you one the correct length. EZPZ. Cheaper than buying 
>> two & easier.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2024, at 10:58 AM, Edwin W  wrote:
>>
>> I have a Joe Appa with long chain stays, which necessitates a long 
>> chain, longer than a single chain.
>>
>>
>> For all of you out there with a long chain bike, what are your best 
>> tips/tricks/techniques for purchasing a chain. Where do you go for a long 
>> chain?
>>
>> What else do you think about with chain replacement, maintenance, etc...
>>
>> Lifelong learner, breaking cobbled together chains,
>>
>> Edwin
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] BRe: Fashion help wanted: ISO nice looking cycling gloves

[Joe Bernard]

Bill, the GOATs are unpadded and I love them. I use a Small on the bike and 
Medium to drive my bus. Recommend!

Joe Bernard 

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:12:04 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I guess that's an OK idea.  Riv has stocked traditional gloves from a 
> number of sources.  At least twice I've bought them and disliked them for 
> one reason or another.  These are yet another variant and maybe they nailed 
> it.  They only have three pairs of medium in stock so I'd better decide 
> quick if I really want three pairs of the same thing...
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 9:56:17 AM UTC-7 Matti wrote:
>
>> Nobody mentioned the Rivendell G.O.A.T. gloves 
>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/goat-gloves-the-g-o-a-t-glove.  Perfect 
>> for traditionalists and could probably be dyed to the color of your choice.
>>
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 7:11:10 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> OK, those handup gloves are pretty darn fun.  That may be the move.  
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 6:43:02 PM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:
>>>
 If you find Cycology gloves too loud, you may not like these: 
 https://handupgloves.com/collections/all-gloves.  Still, check out the 
 Summer of Shreddy-Nine.
 Tom in Alexandria, VA

 On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 9:34:45 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> I will check out those several suggestions.  Thanks!
>
> Pics will prove it if I buy a gaggle of gloves.
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 3:02:24 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> There's lots of good looking cycling clothing in 2024, in my opinion. 
>>  I find no trouble finding jerseys, bibs, shoes, socks and caps that are 
>> interesting to look at and that I enjoy wearing. 
>>
>> Full finger gloves are cute and interesting for the most part.  My 
>> secret weapon is gardening gloves from the fancy garden store come in a 
>> ton 
>> of cute colors and are super affordable (by cycling standards) and 
>> durable 
>> and fashionable.  
>>
>> The missing spot is short finger 'normal' cycling gloves.  Everything 
>> is totally boring.  
>>
>> Last time around, I bought two pairs of boring Bongtrager gloves in 
>> boring all black and a boring blue.  Those are on their last legs and so 
>> I'm in the market to buy two or three pairs of the identical model of 
>> gloves, in two (or three) interesting colors (or 'colorway').  
>>
>> The only interesting looking gloves are the bizarre graffiti looking 
>> offerings from Cycology.  Those are too loud and too self-referential 
>> for 
>> my tastes.  Even high end fashion brands like Rapha and Ostroy don't 
>> have 
>> anything good.  
>>
>> Does anybody have a model of glove that comes in several good-looking 
>> options?  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Long wheelbase = long chain

[Armand Kizirian]

If you have certainty that you won't swap a drivetrain, simply buy two 
chains. The second chain will be enough to populate several chain 
replacements, granted they are of the same chain. No need to use two quick 
links either, if you have a chain breaker and know how to use it. 

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:18:44 AM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Count how many links you have now. Call Will & Riv & he will use their 
> bulk chain to send you one the correct length. EZPZ. Cheaper than buying 
> two & easier.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 25, 2024, at 10:58 AM, Edwin W  wrote:
>
> I have a Joe Appa with long chain stays, which necessitates a long chain, 
> longer than a single chain.
>
>
> For all of you out there with a long chain bike, what are your best 
> tips/tricks/techniques for purchasing a chain. Where do you go for a long 
> chain?
>
> What else do you think about with chain replacement, maintenance, etc...
>
> Lifelong learner, breaking cobbled together chains,
>
> Edwin
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Long wheelbase = long chain

[Richard Rose]

Count how many links you have now. Call Will & Riv & he will use their bulk chain to send you one the correct length. EZPZ. Cheaper than buying two & easier.Sent from my iPhoneOn Apr 25, 2024, at 10:58 AM, Edwin W  wrote:I have a Joe Appa with long chain stays, which necessitates a long chain, longer than a single chain.For all of you out there with a long chain bike, what are your best tips/tricks/techniques for purchasing a chain. Where do you go for a long chain?What else do you think about with chain replacement, maintenance, etc...Lifelong learner, breaking cobbled together chains,Edwin



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[RBW] Re: Bike build day: Atlantis w/ Bullmoose & '81 Trek 510 Jean-Luc Picard

[exliontamer]

No clear coating over the paint but it's a smart idea. I'm guessing you may 
have seen it but the vintage Trek site is a gem. It's usually easy to 
narrow down the year by geometry, tubing, and components since they did a 
lot of switching up. http://www.vintage-trek.com/TrekBrochures.htm

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:00:20 AM UTC-5 Steve wrote:

> Thanks for sharing your 'technique' with the Trek. I hadn't thought of 
> using a paint pen for detailing - though it makes perfect sense. 
> Wondering if you clear coated over the paint to finish it up? 
>
> BTW, I'm now keeping my eye open for a 510 or 710 (or similar) and I'm 
> placing the blame on your Picard Special!!!
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 5:55:30 PM UTC-4 exliontamer wrote:
>
>> I had a blast doing this and happy to share anything! Definitely not 
>> making Joe Bell or CycleArt break a sweat. The base is just a plain British 
>> racing green. The rest is me just being semi-patient with fine tip water 
>> based acrylic paint markers. I went for different colors on the fork blades 
>> and stays, had those meet on the headtube & seattube, & let them all fade 
>> into each other on the top tube and downtube. I want to do something 
>> similar with a proper pro-powdercoated bike (and a little more patience) at 
>> some point. 
>> These old Treks from this era (the 510 & 710 specifically) are one of my 
>> favorite designed bikes of all time. Even before the 650b conversion it 
>> cleared 32s easily (may have fit 35s/never tried). You can pick these up 
>> for a silly good price usually too and they're so common in the Midwest it 
>> seems like they were giving them away. 
>> [image: IMG_5532.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_5533.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_5534.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_5535.jpg]
>> [image: IMG_5536.jpg]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 4:09:57 PM UTC-5 Steve wrote:
>>
>>> It looks like you had some fun with your resto-mod Captain Picard 
>>> Special - love it! 
>>>
>>> You are inspiring my N+1 daydreams.  I've done a few old bike 
>>> restorations over the years - all with rattle can resprays.  Would you mind 
>>> adding some fuel to my fantasies and share the details of your paint job?
>>>
>>> Steve in AVL
>>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 4:24:18 PM UTC-4 exliontamer wrote:
>>>
 Put the Bullmoose on the Atlantis & I'm loving them. They really fit my 
 short torso/long arms on the Atlantis. I have the stem maxed out in the 
 photo for posterity's sake in case anyone in the future needs a reference. 
 It's a 61cm Atlantis (Toyo) with an 81cm saddle height (center of bb to 
 top 
 of saddle). Also, serious thanks to member JJ for the sagely advice, quick 
 shipping, & friendliness. 
 [image: IMG_5528.jpg]
 [image: IMG_5527.jpg]

 Also built up my old Trek 510 with some things I had laying around & 
 some parts I was missing from the Soma sale. I did a homemade paint job on 
 it and used an old Captain Picard keychain for the headbadge. Had the 
 cantilever bosses and a few other things added to it a while ago. 650x42s 
 in there now but it could probably clear a 48. 
 [image: IMG_5529.jpg]
 [image: IMG_5530.jpg]
 [image: IMG_5531.jpg]



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[RBW] Re: Fashion help wanted: ISO nice looking cycling gloves

[Bill Lindsay]

I guess that's an OK idea.  Riv has stocked traditional gloves from a 
number of sources.  At least twice I've bought them and disliked them for 
one reason or another.  These are yet another variant and maybe they nailed 
it.  They only have three pairs of medium in stock so I'd better decide 
quick if I really want three pairs of the same thing...

BL in EC

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 9:56:17 AM UTC-7 Matti wrote:

> Nobody mentioned the Rivendell G.O.A.T. gloves 
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/goat-gloves-the-g-o-a-t-glove.  Perfect 
> for traditionalists and could probably be dyed to the color of your choice.
>
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 7:11:10 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> OK, those handup gloves are pretty darn fun.  That may be the move.  
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 6:43:02 PM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:
>>
>>> If you find Cycology gloves too loud, you may not like these: 
>>> https://handupgloves.com/collections/all-gloves.  Still, check out the 
>>> Summer of Shreddy-Nine.
>>> Tom in Alexandria, VA
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 9:34:45 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 I will check out those several suggestions.  Thanks!

 Pics will prove it if I buy a gaggle of gloves.

 BL in EC

 On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 3:02:24 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> There's lots of good looking cycling clothing in 2024, in my opinion. 
>  I find no trouble finding jerseys, bibs, shoes, socks and caps that are 
> interesting to look at and that I enjoy wearing. 
>
> Full finger gloves are cute and interesting for the most part.  My 
> secret weapon is gardening gloves from the fancy garden store come in a 
> ton 
> of cute colors and are super affordable (by cycling standards) and 
> durable 
> and fashionable.  
>
> The missing spot is short finger 'normal' cycling gloves.  Everything 
> is totally boring.  
>
> Last time around, I bought two pairs of boring Bongtrager gloves in 
> boring all black and a boring blue.  Those are on their last legs and so 
> I'm in the market to buy two or three pairs of the identical model of 
> gloves, in two (or three) interesting colors (or 'colorway').  
>
> The only interesting looking gloves are the bizarre graffiti looking 
> offerings from Cycology.  Those are too loud and too self-referential for 
> my tastes.  Even high end fashion brands like Rapha and Ostroy don't have 
> anything good.  
>
> Does anybody have a model of glove that comes in several good-looking 
> options?  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>


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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Bill Lindsay]

Bending those "BL" rules forced me to concede that the front derailleur I 
chose for my 3x1 build was too crappy.  I kind of smugly used the crappiest 
front derailleur in my bin, because friction shifted front derailleurs are 
a dime a dozen.  The crappiest one (old Deer Head) proved to be too crappy. 
 Thanks to this ride I tossed the bike in the stand and put a much nicer FD 
on there, and now my 3x1 Rom (code name "RoadTrio") satisfies another VERY 
important category.  That category is "every bike should have one Campy 
part".  Now with a Mirage Triple FD, RoadTrio is in the club.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 2:52:35 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> It’s an honor to have the Bill Lindsay Rules bent for our delight here. We 
> await. Bated breath, and all that jazz!
>
> On Apr 23, 2024, at 5:51 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
> "Let’s both Rom-ride this summer! We could even do it in Michigan! "
>
>
> I need to grab a bike right now to head over to the dentist.  I'm going to 
> break my own self-imposed rule and ride my Romulus on its first ride.  Pics 
> will prove it.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 1:02:31 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Let’s both Rom-ride this summer! We could even do it in Michigan! 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:46 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>> I think that falls into Joe Bernard's recommendation of taking a flyer 
>> on a used Rivendell at decent price.  Love it if you can and sell it if you 
>> find you can't love it.  Go for it if you can stand over it. 
>>
>>
>> I bought a used 59cm Romulus this year, and built it but haven't ridden 
>> it, because of my weird self-imposed mileage quota system.  But I will be 
>> Rom-riding this summer!
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 23, 2024 at 12:33:00 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?
>>>
>>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Get an old one like a Rambouillet for true road-ability.  The early 
>>> Rivs are the best if you are into club riding.  I love my Clem for being 
>>> versatile but I have ridden over 20,000 Km of brevets on my 90s Riv Road 
>>> Standard or custom, not sure which. I bought it used.  I have mine 650B 
>>> converted, run 650Bx38 with the Tektro long, long reach brakes, 55-73 
>>> reach, IIRC.  There's several others in the forum that have theirs done 
>>> this way as well.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>> Austin, TX burbs
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
 roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
 Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
 going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
 but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
 ideal. 

 Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
 Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what 
 size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before. 
 I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.

 Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does 
 take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach 
 stem which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out 
 of me. I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate 
 was in the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed 
 it was a hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m 
 the youngest and probably the most fit. 

 Leah

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 .

>>>
>>>
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[RBW] WTB: Soba Handlebars

[Johnny Alien]

Every once and awhile I decide I want to search for some Soba bars again. 
This is the lightweight version of the Noodle handlebars. Anyone have a 
spare one they want to unload? Not really concerned about width.

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[RBW] Re: Centerpull vs V-Brakes in terms of maintenance and use

[Bill Lindsay]

The answer to each of those questions is "It depends".  There are great and 
lousy set ups with center pulls.  There are great and lousy set ups with 
V-Brakes.  You decide if you prefer one over the other.  Ride bikes to 
develop your preferences if that's what you want to do.  If you're going to 
buy a bike without riding it first, then just know it's a guess and you may 
end up changing things.  If you end up turning into a person who hates 
V-Brakes (for example) you may find that you want to get rid of a bike 
because of your hardened preferences.  But there's nothing objectively 
"better" or "worse" between center pulls and V-brakes in the abstract 
general sense.  As you search for "the right bike", I think the bike you 
buy will present itself and then you'll decide to buy it.  Once you buy it, 
you'll try to like it.  If you fail to like it, you'll have to do something 
else.  It's all part of the journey.  You are the captain of your own ship. 
 Some people can't be satisfied with anything and keep searching.  Some 
people can love anything because bikes in 2024 are all excellent.  Most 
people are somewhere in between.  What makes you happy has more to do with 
you than it has to do with brakes, or bikes.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 9:13:58 AM UTC-7 Robert Calton wrote:

> I'm curious what the differences are between these two types of brakes 
> with regards to their respective maintenance and general use. Is one easier 
> to adjust and keep in good riding order than the other? Does one feel 
> fundamentally different than the other during the ride? 
>
> I've read that "stopping power" is greater on v-brakes, but is it really 
> *that* much better to hold out for a frame that supports v-brakes? Are 
> there other factors I'm overlooking other than stopping power? I wouldn't 
> run more than 43mm tires and fenders. 

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[RBW] Re: Long wheelbase = long chain

[DavidP]

My Platypus requires 116 + 12 links. I use two chains with two quicklinks. 
I don't bother about spacing the quicklinks equally between two 64 link 
sections but others may.

-Dave

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 12:51:46 PM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> Ebike chains come in extra long links. Figure out how much you need and 
> buy one close. 
>
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:47:47 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Rivendell themselves buy "chain" in enormous continuous bulk, so they can 
>> use a single chain for a build.  I buy my long chains from Riv.  In the 
>> past, when I've been impatient and wanted to do something in the stand 
>> "RIGHT NOW" I've just used two quick links and a subset of a second chain. 
>>  Sometimes, what's left of the second chain is still long enough for a 
>> single speed build, etc.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 7:57:12 AM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>>
>>> I have a Joe Appa with long chain stays, which necessitates a long 
>>> chain, longer than a single chain.
>>>
>>> For all of you out there with a long chain bike, what are your best 
>>> tips/tricks/techniques for purchasing a chain. Where do you go for a long 
>>> chain?
>>>
>>> What else do you think about with chain replacement, maintenance, etc...
>>>
>>> Lifelong learner, breaking cobbled together chains,
>>>
>>> Edwin
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Fashion help wanted: ISO nice looking cycling gloves

[Matti]

Nobody mentioned the Rivendell G.O.A.T. gloves 
https://www.rivbike.com/products/goat-gloves-the-g-o-a-t-glove.  Perfect 
for traditionalists and could probably be dyed to the color of your choice.

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 7:11:10 AM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> OK, those handup gloves are pretty darn fun.  That may be the move.  
>
> BL in EC
>
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 6:43:02 PM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:
>
>> If you find Cycology gloves too loud, you may not like these: 
>> https://handupgloves.com/collections/all-gloves.  Still, check out the 
>> Summer of Shreddy-Nine.
>> Tom in Alexandria, VA
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 9:34:45 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> I will check out those several suggestions.  Thanks!
>>>
>>> Pics will prove it if I buy a gaggle of gloves.
>>>
>>> BL in EC
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 3:02:24 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 There's lots of good looking cycling clothing in 2024, in my opinion. 
  I find no trouble finding jerseys, bibs, shoes, socks and caps that are 
 interesting to look at and that I enjoy wearing. 

 Full finger gloves are cute and interesting for the most part.  My 
 secret weapon is gardening gloves from the fancy garden store come in a 
 ton 
 of cute colors and are super affordable (by cycling standards) and durable 
 and fashionable.  

 The missing spot is short finger 'normal' cycling gloves.  Everything 
 is totally boring.  

 Last time around, I bought two pairs of boring Bongtrager gloves in 
 boring all black and a boring blue.  Those are on their last legs and so 
 I'm in the market to buy two or three pairs of the identical model of 
 gloves, in two (or three) interesting colors (or 'colorway').  

 The only interesting looking gloves are the bizarre graffiti looking 
 offerings from Cycology.  Those are too loud and too self-referential for 
 my tastes.  Even high end fashion brands like Rapha and Ostroy don't have 
 anything good.  

 Does anybody have a model of glove that comes in several good-looking 
 options?  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Long wheelbase = long chain

[Garth]

Ebike chains come in extra long links. Figure out how much you need and buy 
one close. 

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:47:47 AM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Rivendell themselves buy "chain" in enormous continuous bulk, so they can 
> use a single chain for a build.  I buy my long chains from Riv.  In the 
> past, when I've been impatient and wanted to do something in the stand 
> "RIGHT NOW" I've just used two quick links and a subset of a second chain. 
>  Sometimes, what's left of the second chain is still long enough for a 
> single speed build, etc.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 7:57:12 AM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:
>
>> I have a Joe Appa with long chain stays, which necessitates a long chain, 
>> longer than a single chain.
>>
>> For all of you out there with a long chain bike, what are your best 
>> tips/tricks/techniques for purchasing a chain. Where do you go for a long 
>> chain?
>>
>> What else do you think about with chain replacement, maintenance, etc...
>>
>> Lifelong learner, breaking cobbled together chains,
>>
>> Edwin
>>
>

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[RBW] Centerpull vs V-Brakes in terms of maintenance and use

[Robert Calton]

I'm curious what the differences are between these two types of brakes with 
regards to their respective maintenance and general use. Is one easier to 
adjust and keep in good riding order than the other? Does one feel 
fundamentally different than the other during the ride? 

I've read that "stopping power" is greater on v-brakes, but is it really 
*that* much better to hold out for a frame that supports v-brakes? Are 
there other factors I'm overlooking other than stopping power? I wouldn't 
run more than 43mm tires and fenders. 

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[RBW] Re: Bike build day: Atlantis w/ Bullmoose & '81 Trek 510 Jean-Luc Picard

[Steve]

Thanks for sharing your 'technique' with the Trek. I hadn't thought of 
using a paint pen for detailing - though it makes perfect sense. 
Wondering if you clear coated over the paint to finish it up? 

BTW, I'm now keeping my eye open for a 510 or 710 (or similar) and I'm 
placing the blame on your Picard Special!!!
On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 5:55:30 PM UTC-4 exliontamer wrote:

> I had a blast doing this and happy to share anything! Definitely not 
> making Joe Bell or CycleArt break a sweat. The base is just a plain British 
> racing green. The rest is me just being semi-patient with fine tip water 
> based acrylic paint markers. I went for different colors on the fork blades 
> and stays, had those meet on the headtube & seattube, & let them all fade 
> into each other on the top tube and downtube. I want to do something 
> similar with a proper pro-powdercoated bike (and a little more patience) at 
> some point. 
> These old Treks from this era (the 510 & 710 specifically) are one of my 
> favorite designed bikes of all time. Even before the 650b conversion it 
> cleared 32s easily (may have fit 35s/never tried). You can pick these up 
> for a silly good price usually too and they're so common in the Midwest it 
> seems like they were giving them away. 
> [image: IMG_5532.jpg]
> [image: IMG_5533.jpg]
> [image: IMG_5534.jpg]
> [image: IMG_5535.jpg]
> [image: IMG_5536.jpg]
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 4:09:57 PM UTC-5 Steve wrote:
>
>> It looks like you had some fun with your resto-mod Captain Picard Special 
>> - love it! 
>>
>> You are inspiring my N+1 daydreams.  I've done a few old bike 
>> restorations over the years - all with rattle can resprays.  Would you mind 
>> adding some fuel to my fantasies and share the details of your paint job?
>>
>> Steve in AVL
>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 4:24:18 PM UTC-4 exliontamer wrote:
>>
>>> Put the Bullmoose on the Atlantis & I'm loving them. They really fit my 
>>> short torso/long arms on the Atlantis. I have the stem maxed out in the 
>>> photo for posterity's sake in case anyone in the future needs a reference. 
>>> It's a 61cm Atlantis (Toyo) with an 81cm saddle height (center of bb to top 
>>> of saddle). Also, serious thanks to member JJ for the sagely advice, quick 
>>> shipping, & friendliness. 
>>> [image: IMG_5528.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_5527.jpg]
>>>
>>> Also built up my old Trek 510 with some things I had laying around & 
>>> some parts I was missing from the Soma sale. I did a homemade paint job on 
>>> it and used an old Captain Picard keychain for the headbadge. Had the 
>>> cantilever bosses and a few other things added to it a while ago. 650x42s 
>>> in there now but it could probably clear a 48. 
>>> [image: IMG_5529.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_5530.jpg]
>>> [image: IMG_5531.jpg]
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Parts for Sale

[John Rinker]

Thank you Doug. I'll let this beauty go to someone else the group. Good 
luck with your sale!

Cheers, John

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 7:38:54 AM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> John,
> I will attach the saddle photos to this reply.
> [image: IMG_0655.JPG][image: IMG_0653.JPG][image: IMG_0652.JPG]
>
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 10:33:34 AM UTC-4 John Rinker wrote:
>
>> Hey Doug,
>>
>> I may be interested in the B17 saddle, but the link to your pics doesn't 
>> seem to work for me.
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 3:35:22 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> I have some parts that I've accumulated the past couple of years that I 
>>> need to sell to clear some space in my work are.
>>>
>>>1. Velocity-built Dyad front wheel 36 spokes. Shimano 105 hub. Spins 
>>>true with very few miles. I replaced it with a dynamo wheel. Silver rim 
>>> and 
>>>black hub. $140 shipped
>>>2. Velo Orange Happy Stem: 110 mm 31.8 clamp silver $35 shipped
>>>3. Shimano SPD SL clipless pedals with very little use $40 shipped
>>>4. Garbaruk 40 tooth chainring cinch fit (RaceFace). Less than 200 
>>>miles on it. Very little signs of use. 2.5 mm offset $45 shipped
>>>5. MKS Sylvan Touring pedals like new $40 shipped
>>>6. Brooks B17 narrow saddle with little use and treated $65 shipped
>>>
>>> Photos in this link Parts for Sale 
>>> 
>>>
>>> Doug
>>> Athens, Ga
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Long wheelbase = long chain

[Bill Lindsay]

Rivendell themselves buy "chain" in enormous continuous bulk, so they can 
use a single chain for a build.  I buy my long chains from Riv.  In the 
past, when I've been impatient and wanted to do something in the stand 
"RIGHT NOW" I've just used two quick links and a subset of a second chain. 
 Sometimes, what's left of the second chain is still long enough for a 
single speed build, etc.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 7:57:12 AM UTC-7 Edwin W wrote:

> I have a Joe Appa with long chain stays, which necessitates a long chain, 
> longer than a single chain.
>
> For all of you out there with a long chain bike, what are your best 
> tips/tricks/techniques for purchasing a chain. Where do you go for a long 
> chain?
>
> What else do you think about with chain replacement, maintenance, etc...
>
> Lifelong learner, breaking cobbled together chains,
>
> Edwin
>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Gordon Stam]

That might have been me.Was it green, the Romulus? This was a route that 
began and ended in Pagosa Springs. And agreed, it is a good road bike, and 
I still have mine. I do recall, however, that I had a work a little harder 
keeping up on fast road rides on the Romulus that I did on my Gunnar 
Roadie. But I sold the Gunnar and kept the Romulus. Besides being better 
looking and just cooler it had more tire clearance and was better on dirt 
roads. 

On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 1:04:58 PM UTC-6 Jim Bronson wrote:

> A Romulus sounds fantastic if it fits you and you like the way it rides.  
>
> I came across someone riding a Romulus on Bike Tour of Colorado a while 
> back when I rode the event.  That was a 450ish mile event over 7 days with 
> umpteen tens of thousands of feet of climbing and many passes over 10,000 
> feet with fast downhills.  Even back then in the mid-late 00s us Riv riders 
> stood out from the sea of crabon fibre.  I think there were 5 of us on 
> Rivs, IIRC.
>
> Jim
> Austin, TX 
>
> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 2:32 PM Leah Peterson  wrote:
>
>> So I found a 55 cm Romulus for $1250. What do we think of THAT?
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2024, at 3:02 PM, Jim Bronson  wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Get an old one like a Rambouillet for true road-ability.  The early 
>> Rivs are the best if you are into club riding.  I love my Clem for being 
>> versatile but I have ridden over 20,000 Km of brevets on my 90s Riv Road 
>> Standard or custom, not sure which. I bought it used.  I have mine 650B 
>> converted, run 650Bx38 with the Tektro long, long reach brakes, 55-73 
>> reach, IIRC.  There's several others in the forum that have theirs done 
>> this way as well.
>>
>> Jim
>> Austin, TX burbs
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:33 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I’m starting to wonder about a roadbike. But it has to be a Rivendell 
>>> roadbike because I’m loyal and all that. Anyway, I don’t know that the 
>>> Roadini really offers enough of a change for me. I have no idea what is 
>>> going on with the Gallup. Then there’s the Roadeo - that one looks great 
>>> but there’s a 2 year wait, unless I can find one used. Which would be 
>>> ideal. 
>>>
>>> Who rides their Rivbike in club rides and what do you ride? Who has a 
>>> Roadeo that never gets ridden and wants to sell it? I don’t even know what 
>>> size I’d be but I’m an 81 PBH. Must I ride drop bars? I never have before. 
>>> I know nothing about any of this. Clearly.
>>>
>>> Note: I still like my raspberry Platypus for club riding but it does 
>>> take a toll on me in wind. I recently got a shorter-height, longer-reach 
>>> stem which marginally helped, but our high spring winds are taking it out 
>>> of me. I did a club ride yesterday with my women’s group and my heart rate 
>>> was in the 170s the whole 26.3 miles. It was brutal. Everyone else agreed 
>>> it was a hard ride, but I felt like it was harder on me than them, and I’m 
>>> the youngest and probably the most fit. 
>>>
>>> Leah
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
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[RBW] Re: FS: 58cm Ram $1800 with more photos

['Steven Seelig' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Bumping this.  My neighbor got a few bites but the frame turned out to be 
too big or too small.  Let me know if you are interested and I will put you 
in touch with the seller.

On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 11:36:26 AM UTC-4 Steven Seelig wrote:

> [image: Resized_Resized_20240414_162333.jpeg][image: 
> Resized_Resized_20240414_162351.jpeg][image: 
> Resized_Resized_20240414_162708.jpeg][image: 
> Resized_Resized_20240414_162737.jpeg]
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Long wheelbase = long chain

[Brian Forsee]

I don't have a long chain bike myself, but when i was employed as a bike 
mechanic i worked on lots of recumbent bikes. These would require 2-3 
chains,  most of the time 3. We would just splice together 3 chains of the 
same make and model. I ran into problems trying to combine different model 
chains, even from the same manufacturer (obviously these were the same 
speed/width). The easiest way is to use multiple quick links. You can also 
splice them together using the regular link/pin but need to be careful to 
get the pin inserted straight. 

Brian

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 9:57:12 AM UTC-5 Edwin W wrote:

> I have a Joe Appa with long chain stays, which necessitates a long chain, 
> longer than a single chain.
>
> For all of you out there with a long chain bike, what are your best 
> tips/tricks/techniques for purchasing a chain. Where do you go for a long 
> chain?
>
> What else do you think about with chain replacement, maintenance, etc...
>
> Lifelong learner, breaking cobbled together chains,
>
> Edwin
>

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[RBW] Long wheelbase = long chain

[Edwin W]

I have a Joe Appa with long chain stays, which necessitates a long chain, 
longer than a single chain.

For all of you out there with a long chain bike, what are your best 
tips/tricks/techniques for purchasing a chain. Where do you go for a long 
chain?

What else do you think about with chain replacement, maintenance, etc...

Lifelong learner, breaking cobbled together chains,

Edwin

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[RBW] Re: Parts for Sale

[John Rinker]

Hey Doug,

I may be interested in the B17 saddle, but the link to your pics doesn't 
seem to work for me.

Cheers, John

On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 3:35:22 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> I have some parts that I've accumulated the past couple of years that I 
> need to sell to clear some space in my work are.
>
>1. Velocity-built Dyad front wheel 36 spokes. Shimano 105 hub. Spins 
>true with very few miles. I replaced it with a dynamo wheel. Silver rim 
> and 
>black hub. $140 shipped
>2. Velo Orange Happy Stem: 110 mm 31.8 clamp silver $35 shipped
>3. Shimano SPD SL clipless pedals with very little use $40 shipped
>4. Garbaruk 40 tooth chainring cinch fit (RaceFace). Less than 200 
>miles on it. Very little signs of use. 2.5 mm offset $45 shipped
>5. MKS Sylvan Touring pedals like new $40 shipped
>6. Brooks B17 narrow saddle with little use and treated $65 shipped
>
> Photos in this link Parts for Sale 
> 
>
> Doug
> Athens, Ga
>

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[RBW] Re: Fashion help wanted: ISO nice looking cycling gloves

[Bill Lindsay]

OK, those handup gloves are pretty darn fun.  That may be the move.  

BL in EC

On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 6:43:02 PM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:

> If you find Cycology gloves too loud, you may not like these: 
> https://handupgloves.com/collections/all-gloves.  Still, check out the 
> Summer of Shreddy-Nine.
> Tom in Alexandria, VA
>
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 9:34:45 PM UTC-4 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I will check out those several suggestions.  Thanks!
>>
>> Pics will prove it if I buy a gaggle of gloves.
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 3:02:24 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> There's lots of good looking cycling clothing in 2024, in my opinion.  I 
>>> find no trouble finding jerseys, bibs, shoes, socks and caps that are 
>>> interesting to look at and that I enjoy wearing. 
>>>
>>> Full finger gloves are cute and interesting for the most part.  My 
>>> secret weapon is gardening gloves from the fancy garden store come in a ton 
>>> of cute colors and are super affordable (by cycling standards) and durable 
>>> and fashionable.  
>>>
>>> The missing spot is short finger 'normal' cycling gloves.  Everything is 
>>> totally boring.  
>>>
>>> Last time around, I bought two pairs of boring Bongtrager gloves in 
>>> boring all black and a boring blue.  Those are on their last legs and so 
>>> I'm in the market to buy two or three pairs of the identical model of 
>>> gloves, in two (or three) interesting colors (or 'colorway').  
>>>
>>> The only interesting looking gloves are the bizarre graffiti looking 
>>> offerings from Cycology.  Those are too loud and too self-referential for 
>>> my tastes.  Even high end fashion brands like Rapha and Ostroy don't have 
>>> anything good.  
>>>
>>> Does anybody have a model of glove that comes in several good-looking 
>>> options?  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Mathias Steiner]

The thread title is "roadbike curious" not drop-bar curious.

I ride a Bruce Gordon Taiwan BLT with a drop bar. It's like an original Sam 
Hillborne -- basically the same geometry, and a frame that weighs 2700 
grams by itself. It's stiff to carry a load on rough roads. I've ridden it 
with road wheels and 30 mm tires and it's fast and efficient that way, but 
it's not a road bike. At least the geometry is made to work with drop or 
flat bars.

The Platypus frame is made for swept-back bars, and the stem will need to 
be comically short to get a reasonable riding position.

I'm repeating this this photo from the between-sizes thread -- it shows the 
difference between drop and swept-back bars on the same bicycle.
When you think that the top tube length changes maybe a couple cm between 
frame sizes and here the hands move forward > 10 cm to go from Northroads 
bars to drop, it's a big deal.

cheers -mathias

[image: dropvnroads.jpg]

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 8:36:15 AM UTC-4 Johnny Alien wrote:

> Yeah thats a big haul too. New wheels, cockpit, brake setup, gearing 
> (potentially). New road focused bike is 100% the way to go. :)
>
> PS: I would feel the same way about getting a bike that would then need a 
> cockpit overhaul automatically like that. A good deal gets to be less of 
> one when you have to throw down a bunch cash on top of it to get it the way 
> you want
>
> PPS: This has inspired me to get a road frame to replace the Roadini that 
> I was unable to build up last year. Not a Rivendell but Riv adjacent.
>
> PPPS: When you keep adding postscripts should you be adding extra P's the 
> way I did it or you you at extra S's? It seems like Post, Post, makes more 
> sense than Script, Script.if that is indeed what the S stands for. Its 
> been years since I have been in school or actually wrote a real life letter.
>
> On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 1:17:29 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Putting myself in Leah's place to answer your question, if I had her 
>> plethora of Platys I would choose a new/different bike for drop bars 
>> because it would be more interesting. Popping drops on one of my Platys 
>> with wide tires and a dynohub ain't gonna do the roadie thing for me. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 6:39:13 PM UTC-7 ttoshi wrote:
>>
>>> --What if I flip the question on its head and say could I do club riding 
>>> with my Cheviot, and what would I gain from getting a road bike?
>>>
>>> I've not ridden a Platypus, but I would assume that it would be similar 
>>> to a Cheviot.
>>>
>>> If I stripped down my Cheviot, then I am confident that I would be 
>>> perfectly fine on club rides.  I have Albastache bars, and basically use 2 
>>> positions.  My brake levers are on the curves up front and it is probably 
>>> similar to my drop bars.  I have an upright position at the end of the bar 
>>> where the bar end shifters are.  I think rides up to a century or 200k 
>>> would be fine.  I think I might prefer a drop bar for longer rides because 
>>> I have more hand positions that I use (I'm sure there are more usable 
>>> positions on the Albastache, but I don't use them...).
>>>
>>> For my drop bars, I found this site to describe various hand positions: 
>>> https://www.roadbikerider.com/dropped-bar-hand-positions/
>>>
>>> I probably use position 3 (curves of the flat front bar) for 45% of my 
>>> riding.  30% in position 7 in the drops and the other 20% in position 9 
>>> (end of drops) and 10% on the flats or in the hoods (2,5).
>>>
>>> I actually don't use the hoods too much because I set up my drop bars so 
>>> that I am most comfortable in the drops and a bit stretched out when my 
>>> hands are in the hoods.
>>> --I would definitely recommend TRP levers if you want to brake from the 
>>> drops because they are angled out to make it easy to grab when you are 
>>> braking from the drops.
>>>
>>> Aside from more hand positions with a drop bar, there would be more 
>>> responsive steering from the handlebar.  I think that if I had a bmx setup 
>>> without brake or derailleur cables, then I would be able to spin my front 
>>> wheel 360 degrees without falling on my Cheviot.  
>>>
>>> If I tried to spin my Roadeo front wheel 360 degrees, then I'm pretty 
>>> sure I'd fall flat on my face as I angled the front wheel too far to the 
>>> left or right.
>>>
>>> My Roadeo has the best handling via steering input.  This responsiveness 
>>> to steering gives me better descending capabilities when going down curvy 
>>> roads.  I wouldn't otherwise need the responsive steering if I didn't 
>>> descend hilly/mountainous roads, and would be perfectly fine going slightly 
>>> slower on my Cheviot.
>>>
>>> If I had a racing Platy/Cheviot: 1. Albastache bars to have the hand 
>>> position with the brakes up front to tuck down in the wind. 2. Supple 
>>> sidewall tires.  Yes there is a greater risk of sidewall damage, but if I 
>>> store my bike indoors (I do) and do periodic 

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Johnny Alien]

Yeah thats a big haul too. New wheels, cockpit, brake setup, gearing 
(potentially). New road focused bike is 100% the way to go. :)

PS: I would feel the same way about getting a bike that would then need a 
cockpit overhaul automatically like that. A good deal gets to be less of 
one when you have to throw down a bunch cash on top of it to get it the way 
you want

PPS: This has inspired me to get a road frame to replace the Roadini that I 
was unable to build up last year. Not a Rivendell but Riv adjacent.

PPPS: When you keep adding postscripts should you be adding extra P's the 
way I did it or you you at extra S's? It seems like Post, Post, makes more 
sense than Script, Script.if that is indeed what the S stands for. Its 
been years since I have been in school or actually wrote a real life letter.

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 1:17:29 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Putting myself in Leah's place to answer your question, if I had her 
> plethora of Platys I would choose a new/different bike for drop bars 
> because it would be more interesting. Popping drops on one of my Platys 
> with wide tires and a dynohub ain't gonna do the roadie thing for me. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 6:39:13 PM UTC-7 ttoshi wrote:
>
>> --What if I flip the question on its head and say could I do club riding 
>> with my Cheviot, and what would I gain from getting a road bike?
>>
>> I've not ridden a Platypus, but I would assume that it would be similar 
>> to a Cheviot.
>>
>> If I stripped down my Cheviot, then I am confident that I would be 
>> perfectly fine on club rides.  I have Albastache bars, and basically use 2 
>> positions.  My brake levers are on the curves up front and it is probably 
>> similar to my drop bars.  I have an upright position at the end of the bar 
>> where the bar end shifters are.  I think rides up to a century or 200k 
>> would be fine.  I think I might prefer a drop bar for longer rides because 
>> I have more hand positions that I use (I'm sure there are more usable 
>> positions on the Albastache, but I don't use them...).
>>
>> For my drop bars, I found this site to describe various hand positions: 
>> https://www.roadbikerider.com/dropped-bar-hand-positions/
>>
>> I probably use position 3 (curves of the flat front bar) for 45% of my 
>> riding.  30% in position 7 in the drops and the other 20% in position 9 
>> (end of drops) and 10% on the flats or in the hoods (2,5).
>>
>> I actually don't use the hoods too much because I set up my drop bars so 
>> that I am most comfortable in the drops and a bit stretched out when my 
>> hands are in the hoods.
>> --I would definitely recommend TRP levers if you want to brake from the 
>> drops because they are angled out to make it easy to grab when you are 
>> braking from the drops.
>>
>> Aside from more hand positions with a drop bar, there would be more 
>> responsive steering from the handlebar.  I think that if I had a bmx setup 
>> without brake or derailleur cables, then I would be able to spin my front 
>> wheel 360 degrees without falling on my Cheviot.  
>>
>> If I tried to spin my Roadeo front wheel 360 degrees, then I'm pretty 
>> sure I'd fall flat on my face as I angled the front wheel too far to the 
>> left or right.
>>
>> My Roadeo has the best handling via steering input.  This responsiveness 
>> to steering gives me better descending capabilities when going down curvy 
>> roads.  I wouldn't otherwise need the responsive steering if I didn't 
>> descend hilly/mountainous roads, and would be perfectly fine going slightly 
>> slower on my Cheviot.
>>
>> If I had a racing Platy/Cheviot: 1. Albastache bars to have the hand 
>> position with the brakes up front to tuck down in the wind. 2. Supple 
>> sidewall tires.  Yes there is a greater risk of sidewall damage, but if I 
>> store my bike indoors (I do) and do periodic inspection of my tires (I need 
>> to do this before big rides for sure), then I am comfortable with the risk 
>> benefit tradeoff. The improvement in ride quality and speed was tremendous 
>> for me. 38-42 mm is ideal for me (Hetre EL or Babyshoe pass EL or parimoto 
>> 38 mm are tires I have used and are wonderful).  I think Jan 
>> Heine/Compass/Rene Herse's research showed that 42 mm supple tires are no 
>> less efficient and can be more efficient than 28 mm road tires.
>>
>> I wouldn't worry about the weight of the bike unless I was just hanging 
>> on by a thread and needed to lose a pound or two to keep a margin of 
>> comfort, or unless I were actually racing (I don't) and seconds might 
>> really count. Besides, I know there is a certain amount of satisfaction 
>> when a racing Platy keeps up with the carbon fiber pack!
>>
>> Toshi in Oakland, CA
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Garth]

I'm doubling tripling down on the drop bar racing Platy. I've lost count 
how many Platy's Leahs has, 2,3.4 ? IDK. I think the World won't stop 
rotating to spare a drop bar Platy to try, at least initally, especially 
since Leah has never even ridden any drop bars. Nor has she ridden a "real 
road bike". So to buy one without even knowing if that's what's wanted 
isn't the wisest thing to do, from my perspective. I see a certain 
categorical ignorance/limiting going on here, which is ironic given the Riv 
pitch of frame versatility. 

For example, I hadn't ridden my Bombadil in about a year as it had 
Albatross bars on it set a few inches above saddle height. That no longer 
works for me at all. So rather than let it just sit, or sell it, I decided 
to try some drop bars on it with a very negative rise stem. I have some 
rollers to ride indoors so I've been doing that as I dial in the 
positioning. One thing for sure, it is very different experience being 
stretch out and low rather than sitting up more and back. The weight 
distribution and handling is very different, not to mention the different 
muscle groups involved in such postions.  It's very much a "real road bike" 
experience as I define that more by position than frame specs alone. I 
disregard any so-called "limits/intentions" of given frame design. It is 
what it is, a frame. Ride/adorn it any way that works for you given what'll 
fit on it. Picture all those 80's mtb's being used as drop bar commuters. 
Oh the humanity ! 

The bottom line is to not make this more difficult than it has to be to 
familiarize herself with the different positioning and muscle usage of a 
lower-forward drop bar experience. 

On Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 1:17:29 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Putting myself in Leah's place to answer your question, if I had her 
> plethora of Platys I would choose a new/different bike for drop bars 
> because it would be more interesting. Popping drops on one of my Platys 
> with wide tires and a dynohub ain't gonna do the roadie thing for me. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Wednesday, April 24, 2024 at 6:39:13 PM UTC-7 ttoshi wrote:
>
>> --What if I flip the question on its head and say could I do club riding 
>> with my Cheviot, and what would I gain from getting a road bike?
>>
>> I've not ridden a Platypus, but I would assume that it would be similar 
>> to a Cheviot.
>>
>> If I stripped down my Cheviot, then I am confident that I would be 
>> perfectly fine on club rides.  I have Albastache bars, and basically use 2 
>> positions.  My brake levers are on the curves up front and it is probably 
>> similar to my drop bars.  I have an upright position at the end of the bar 
>> where the bar end shifters are.  I think rides up to a century or 200k 
>> would be fine.  I think I might prefer a drop bar for longer rides because 
>> I have more hand positions that I use (I'm sure there are more usable 
>> positions on the Albastache, but I don't use them...).
>>
>> For my drop bars, I found this site to describe various hand positions: 
>> https://www.roadbikerider.com/dropped-bar-hand-positions/
>>
>> I probably use position 3 (curves of the flat front bar) for 45% of my 
>> riding.  30% in position 7 in the drops and the other 20% in position 9 
>> (end of drops) and 10% on the flats or in the hoods (2,5).
>>
>> I actually don't use the hoods too much because I set up my drop bars so 
>> that I am most comfortable in the drops and a bit stretched out when my 
>> hands are in the hoods.
>> --I would definitely recommend TRP levers if you want to brake from the 
>> drops because they are angled out to make it easy to grab when you are 
>> braking from the drops.
>>
>> Aside from more hand positions with a drop bar, there would be more 
>> responsive steering from the handlebar.  I think that if I had a bmx setup 
>> without brake or derailleur cables, then I would be able to spin my front 
>> wheel 360 degrees without falling on my Cheviot.  
>>
>> If I tried to spin my Roadeo front wheel 360 degrees, then I'm pretty 
>> sure I'd fall flat on my face as I angled the front wheel too far to the 
>> left or right.
>>
>> My Roadeo has the best handling via steering input.  This responsiveness 
>> to steering gives me better descending capabilities when going down curvy 
>> roads.  I wouldn't otherwise need the responsive steering if I didn't 
>> descend hilly/mountainous roads, and would be perfectly fine going slightly 
>> slower on my Cheviot.
>>
>> If I had a racing Platy/Cheviot: 1. Albastache bars to have the hand 
>> position with the brakes up front to tuck down in the wind. 2. Supple 
>> sidewall tires.  Yes there is a greater risk of sidewall damage, but if I 
>> store my bike indoors (I do) and do periodic inspection of my tires (I need 
>> to do this before big rides for sure), then I am comfortable with the risk 
>> benefit tradeoff. The improvement in ride quality and speed was tremendous 
>> for me. 38-42 mm is ideal for me