[RBW] Re: Knee Replacement
I'm a PT with about 16 years experience. I treat many folks post-op single or double knee replacement. You should get back to cycling without concern or restriction in 3-4 months (you can push it earlier, but most folks find that the resulting inflammation is not worth it). A couple of points, in response to some of the other responses you've received: Yes, folks do sometimes get both knees done at once. The early days of rehab can be pretty unpleasant as you haven't a non-surgical leg to stand on. That phase passes pretty quickly. I have seen the interesting outcomes in some folks who've had both replaced at the same time in which one knee turns out better than the other knee. No idea why this happens, but it does. As for the other folks in this thread with grumpy knees, one of the most important things you can do is keep your lateral hips and glutes strong. Exercises like resisted clamshells and prone hip extensions/abductions are key. Your knees will be happier. And for those of you who are bone-on-bone, you can forestall replacements if you keep the glutes and lateral hips good and strong. Good luck! Have fun! lyle On Saturday, November 19, 2022 at 9:04:28 AM UTC-5 rsb...@msn.com wrote: > Anyone here had a knee replaced? How long till you could ride again? > My right knee is killing me. I've put it off as long as I could. It's > almost time. > Richard > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ef1ea29a-c4ad-4e4a-a1d1-abb696eeb4cdn%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: FS: 59CM Canti Romulus Frame
Beautiful frame; wish it were my size! Cheers! lyle On Friday, April 30, 2021 at 7:56:20 AM UTC-7 jmanw...@gmail.com wrote: > Selling this amazing frame to get some cash for a CX/gravel build to race > this summer. $900 for the group. > > Toyo made rare cantilever version. I have squeezed 42mm tires on it > without fenders and 38mm with finders. No decals but I am sure they can be > had. I liked having it without. > > Will consider trades for something that takes disc brakes and a more > cx/gravel geometry or maybe canti for the right frame! Around 59cm. > > PM me for more images. Thanks! > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/57d25c59-bc36-4939-a285-d7be488e3ce1n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: FOR SALE: Custom Rivendell Road Bike
Hi Helen, First, my condolences. It's a hard thing losing one's spouse and Life partner. I wish you much peace. Second, alas the bike is a touch too big for me. You'll have no trouble selling that beauty! All the best, lyle f bogart dpt Tacoma, WA On Saturday, April 24, 2021 at 5:24:54 PM UTC-7 hm_w...@hotmail.com wrote: > > -Curt Goodrich built Rivendell Road bike with custom paint by Joe Bell > -Phil Wood hubs built to Sun CR18 rims > -SHIMANO Deore XT m772 rear derailer > -Deore XT cantilever brakes > -Nitto handlebars and stem > -Silver bar-end shifters > > Immaculately cared for. Stored in climate controlled garage. > Located in Pacific Northwest. > > Asking $2000, plus shipping if applicable. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4598f64c-e432-4332-b23f-ec171c0b6c09n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] PSA: Sam Hillborne 58cm on seattle craiglist
Not mine; no affiliation. Fine looking bike ;-) https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bik/d/seattle-rivendell-sam-hillborne-58/7084971566.html Cheers! lyle -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a48dd5b8-32c0-4cba-bd46-a1cf06d776db%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] FS: Simpleone
Beautiful bike. Mercifully, perhaps, it’s too small for me. Good luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: What type of bike would make you buy another riv
I've an Atlantis and am very pleased with that, however... I really enjoy fixed riding, on and off road. I'd be hard-pressed to turn down a fixed-gear specific (front brake only), wide-tire clearance Riv frame. Kind of like a quickbeam, I suppose... On Saturday, February 3, 2018 at 12:21:26 AM UTC-8, drew wrote: > > It’s late and I’ve been inspired by lum gim fongs Willy nilly topic > creation. I’ve owned 2 sams, a hunq, Clem and Atlantis. Down to just an > Atlantis now and pretty happy. I’ve been thinking about what kind of model > would get me to buy a new rivendell again. So I pose the same question to > you all. (Let’s eliminate the things they won’t do, like low trail and disc > brakes) > > For me, it’d be a Roadini with clearances for > 2.1 tires or a canti cheviot. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Obesity factors redux
Given the spirited threads that the issue of obesity, diet, exercise, etcetera has inspired in the past, I thought I would pass this along. The information, or perhaps only the way it is so cogently presented, is quite new to me and I thought it might be helpful. This fellow, Bruce Blumberg PhD, is looking at some environmental factors in obesity and it is fascinating stuff. The first link is a brief radio conversation in advance of his presentation at Colby College here in Maine tomorrow and provides a nice overview. The second is his presentation on obesogens much of which is quite technical but I found it worth the wading. The third link is to Blumberg's home page. Click on endocrine disruptors. Again, I found this stuff fascinating and I hope it helps expand our views, whether we struggle with weight issues or not. Cheers, lyle http://www.mpbn.net/News/MPBNNewsforVillageSoup/tabid/1144/ctl/ViewItem/mid/3695/ItemId/18497/Default.aspx http://www.oeconline.org/our-work/healthier-lives/healthprofessionals/hefforum/hefpresentations/blumbergHEFpresentation/at_download/file http://blumberg.bio.uci.edu/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: sks longboard fenders on a romulus
Pictures are *always* good! I've been thinking about getting a set or three of the longboards, so I'd also like to hear your feedback on the fenders. Cheers! lyle On Jun 12, 4:12 pm, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote: Got the fenders in this week and I put them on the romulus today. I just about ruined my fun by cutting the stays too short but with grand bois cypres tires labeled 30mm - measured 32mm. I had no trouble getting the longboard fenders that riv sells under the brakes and clear. Worked out right well, actually. I suspect that the jackbrowns might be pushing it a bit - but there MAY be enough room. I'll take some pictures after a bit and post them if anyone is interested. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Now: IT Band Was: Goals for 2010
Hi Patrick,
If the twinging in the knees is not sharp pain (dull pain, aching is
okay) then I would consider it not great for your knees. However, that
is not from seated high torque pedaling per se. I'd bet the seated
high torque pedaling is revealing a weakness/dysfunction elsewhere in
the kinetic chain--weakness or excessive tightness (or a combination
of the two) at the hips for instance--which yields poor biomechanics
at the knee joint. Watch for any lateral/medial deviation of the knee
during the pedal stroke; if present, you've likely got weakness in the
hips, laterally. If the knee twinging does not begin until 18-36 hours
after and resolves reasonably quickly/easily then I wouldn't really
worry much about it... that's more indicative of soft-tissue stress.
Hope it helps!
lyle DPT may be a doctorate, but functionally it's Damned Poor
Typist bogart
tacoma, wa
On Jan 5, 9:39 pm, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:13 PM, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com
lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi All!
Regarding [the] understanding that the effect of heavy resistance
creating excessive contact pressure between the articular surfaces of
the knee cap and the trochlear groove in which the knee cap glides,
there is, again, no evidence to support this as being damaging to the
knees. The exception to this is if one spends a substantial amount of
time kneeling on a hard surface (tile setters, for instance experience
this commonly). Prolonged heavy direct pressure can cause deformation
of the articular cartilage of the knee cap which may lead to
biomechanical pathology or simply pain. In exercises--even very heavy
squatting--there is little risk of damage to the cartilage of the knee
cap, presuming the rest of the kinetic chain is strong enough to
withstand the heavy exercise. In fact, compressive loading of
cartilage is actually essential to the health of the articular
surface. So…
Patrick Moore, unless you've already a knee problem, there's little
danger in unseated climbing on the fixed gear (and I'm happy that this
is so as I spend a great deal of time in that climbing mode, myself!)…
enjoy :)
I hope this helps!
Lyle: I take it DPT does not stand for don't know from physical therapy
and that you have some expertise in the matter, and I thank you for this
information. One more question: is *seated* high torque pedalling, the kind
that leaves my knees twinging slightly the day or so afterward, bad for the
knees?
Thanks again, very much,
Patrick spinning small gears makes me tired Moore
--
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[RBW] Re: Now: IT Band Was: Goals for 2010
Hi Patrick,
I could never tell what which was worse: going down College Street in
Burlington on a fixed gear in the snow ice or going back up it!
Enjoy!
Chondromalacia is a specific pathology in which the articular surface
of the knee cap softens. This problem typically responds well to
activities which compress the cartilage (gentle compression and
release of articular cartilage appears to be the way in which these
tissues acquire nutrients as they have no significant intrinsic blood
source). If you're mashing along, not experiencing lateral/medial
deviation of the knee (knees diving toward or away from the top-
tube), and not experiencing pain... well, no good reason to stop.
I've no idea, really what constitutes low cadence... 80 rpm seems fine
under most circumstances for me... 12 rpm seem kinda slow unless it's
really steep...
lyle
On Jan 6, 7:05 am, Patrick in VT psh...@drm.com wrote:
On Jan 6, 8:57 am, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com lylebog...@gmail.com
wrote:
I'd bet the seated
high torque pedaling is revealing a weakness/dysfunction elsewhere in
the kinetic chain--weakness or excessive tightness (or a combination
of the two) at the hips for instance--which yields poor biomechanics
at the knee joint.
thanks for detailed replies, Lyle. so, if I understand it correctly,
as long as there are no weak links in the kinetic chain, it's all
good. and conditions like chondromalacia, etc., which are commonly
associated with pushing to big a gear, are better explained and
treated by dealing with the weak links than by focusing on the knee
joint as separate from the kinetic chain.
in other words, if one has a clean, well lubed kinetic chain and is
not experiencing pain, then low cadence cycling, fixed gear or
otherwise, is not cause for concern regarding the long term health of
one's joints.
I really hope my kinetic chain is strong! 70 fixed gear through
snow and burlington hills ain't no joke ;)
what is considered low cadence anyway - less than 70 rpm? less than
60rpm?
--
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[RBW] Re: Now: IT Band Was: Goals for 2010
Hi All! I’m joining this one late, again… and once again, this will likely be lengthy… IT Band trouble is rarely a primary cause of knee pain, or an independently occurring malady. Unfortunately, there are no very good studies of IT band syndrome. For instance, some researchers have found that running across inclines causes IT band symptoms to occur in the uphill leg, while others have found that the symptoms occur in the downhill leg. Some researchers have found that slow running relieves IT band symptoms in runners while others have found that faster running relieves the symptoms… what the studies do not control for is proximal (hip) and/or distal (lower leg) variables. Instead, most researchers have only looked at “IT band tightness”, though some have looked at the relationship between IT band symptoms and lower leg external rotation (in ballet dancers). The upshot is that there is no good research which implicates the IT band as a primary or independent problem. It is also important to note that the iliotibial band cannot be stretched—you can apply tension through it, but there is no evidence that a plastic change in its length can be made. We can stretch the muscle (the tensor fascia latae) to which the IT band blends at the pelvis, but even that will not produce an IT band length change. The muscle itself (which, incidentally is only approximately 3-4 long), when stretched will have minimal, if any effect on IT band syndrome. The IT band becomes symptomatic when it is exposed to excessive friction as the lateral femoral epicondyle moves under the IT band during knee flexion and extension. There is a bursa—a cushion of sorts— between the epicondyle and the IT band to minimize this friction. When considering IT band problems, it is important to think about the effect of the proximal attachment at the anterolateral aspect of the pelvis and the distal attachment at Gerdy’s tubercle on the anterolateral tibia a few centimeters distal to the jointline of the knee. Proximally there is very little motion relative to the underlying structures while distally there is greater motion relative to underlying structures. When the orientation of the lateral condyles of the tibia change relative to the epicondyles of the femur, the IT band may be exposed to greater friction forces and becomes susceptible to irritation, with pain following. The orientation of the condyles and epicondyles can be most adversely affected by either external rotation (“toes out”) of the lower leg without rotation of the femur or internal rotation of the femur (“knock-knees”) without rotation of the lower leg (that is, the lower leg remaing neutral with toes pointing straight ahead). The worst-case scenario is a combination of the two conditions. In either case (femoral internal rotation or tibial external rotation), the epicondyle of the femur is made more functionally prominent and abrades the underside of the IT band. There are several ways the orientation of the condyles/epicondyles may occur. To create tibial external rotation: excessively tight lateral hamstrings (biceps femoris) or excessively tight calf muscles (gastrocnemius) lateral head, excessively weak medial hamstrings (semitendinosis and semimembranosis) or medial gastrocnemius, articular surface defects (such as arthritis) which my alter the path of the tibia on the femur during knee extension/flexion. To create femoral internal rotation: weak hip abductors and/or external rotators, excessively tight hip adductors (inside thigh muscles) or hip internal rotators. Of course, in cycling, poorly positioned cleats can also create this problem. How to fix IT band syndrome? Well, first tease out the cause (weakness vs. tightness vs. a combination of the two). Then perform the relevant exercises (clamshells with elastic resistance bands around the knees and/or lateral stepping with elastic resistance bands around the ankles for strengthening and hamstrings, adductors, calf stretches for flexibility), ice and/or anti-inflammatories to control swelling and pain. In extreme cases, some manual therapy in the form of soft-tissue mobilization to reduce scar tissue may be required. Regarding Patrick in VT's (I hear you folks got a good dump of snow recently :) ) understanding that the effect of heavy resistance creating excessive contact pressure between the articular surfaces of the knee cap and the trochlear groove in which the knee cap glides, there is, again, no evidence to support this as being damaging to the knees. The exception to this is if one spends a substantial amount of time kneeling on a hard surface (tile setters, for instance experience this commonly). Prolonged heavy direct pressure can cause deformation of the articular cartilage of the knee cap which may lead to biomechanical pathology or simply pain. In exercises--even very heavy squatting--there is little risk of damage to the cartilage of the knee cap, presuming the rest of the kinetic chain is
[RBW] Re: Now: IT Band Was: Goals for 2010
David,
You've certainly got a number of variables at work here… do you have
pain in both knees? The scoliosis will likely affect the orientation
of your pelvis in the saddle, specifically I'd anticipate that your
pelvis would be somewhat rotated so the left hip/leg will be forward
of the right. This would have the effect of decreasing the internal
rotation of the thigh on the left, but increasing the amount of knee
flexion at the top of the pedal stroke on the left. Likewise, the
femoral internal rotation on the right will be somewhat increased…
There are several good reasons for the knock-knees: 1) tightness of
the hip adductors (muscles of the inner thigh), 2) tightness of the
hip internal rotators, 3) very weak hip abductors/external rotators,
4) congenital causes such as femoral torsion, femoral antervsion, or
tibiofemoral joint interface. Cause #4 we can't do anything about.
Causes 1-3 are correctable. For now, I would recommend continuing with
the stretching and strengthening of the hip muscles. When stretching,
make sure you stretch often throughout the day (more is better) and
maintain the stretched position for a few minutes at time. Too short a
stretch will yield an elastic change in the length of the tissues
being stretched; you likely need a plastic change. Also don't stretch
to the point of pain (discomfort, yes, but not pain). It may take a
couple of weeks before you notice much change in your flexibility if
you're significantly tight right now. Also remember that, even if
you're pretty strong in all the currently short muscles, you won't be
as strong in the newly acquired range of motion since you haven't been
strengthening in that range, so any strength deficits should be tended
to as well.
Changing the crank Q… widening the tread will have the effect of
decreasing somewhat the femoral internal rotation and may put the hip
external rotators into a more advantageous leverage position.
Unfortunately, it may also have the effect of increasing the external
rotation of the tibia so it may exacerbate the problem. I also have a
bias against changing more than one variable at a time since doing so
may make unclear what the most effective strategy is…
Moving the heel in a bit and lowering the saddle… I would definitely
not recommend this combination for you. If you're already internally
rotated at the femurs, decreasing saddle height will not only increase
this problem, it will also place your hip abductors/external rotators
into a disadvantageous leverage position possibly further exacerbating
the femoral internal rotation. Not changing the saddle height, but
turning your heel in (which is the same as externally rotating your
tibia) may, again, worsen the problem. Remember, femoral internal
rotation = tibial external rotation at the knee joint. Both of these
conditions are usually implicated in IT band syndrome.
Hope this makes sense!
lyle
On Jan 5, 7:48 pm, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
Cool, thanks for the info, Lyle. Xrays show I'm knock-kneed a bit. Also
have scoliosis curve which tilts my left shoulder down toward my left hip a
bit. Dr. suggested moving my heel in a bit and saddle down a bit, does that
sound like valid advice Others have suggested widening the crank Q as
per Andy Pruitt's advice. I haven't done that yet.
So far the stretches I have done don't seem to help too much, but I just
started them last week.
Cheers,
DE
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com
lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi All!
I’m joining this one late, again… and once again, this will likely be
lengthy…
IT Band trouble is rarely a primary cause of knee pain, or an
independently occurring malady. Unfortunately, there are no very good
studies of IT band syndrome. For instance, some researchers have found
that running across inclines causes IT band symptoms to occur in the
uphill leg, while others have found that the symptoms occur in the
downhill leg. Some researchers have found that slow running relieves
IT band symptoms in runners while others have found that faster
running relieves the symptoms… what the studies do not control for is
proximal (hip) and/or distal (lower leg) variables. Instead, most
researchers have only looked at “IT band tightness”, though some have
looked at the relationship between IT band symptoms and lower leg
external rotation (in ballet dancers). The upshot is that there is no
good research which implicates the IT band as a primary or independent
problem.
It is also important to note that the iliotibial band cannot be
stretched—you can apply tension through it, but there is no evidence
that a plastic change in its length can be made. We can stretch the
muscle (the tensor fascia latae) to which the IT band blends at the
pelvis, but even that will not produce an IT band length change. The
muscle itself (which, incidentally is only approximately 3-4 long),
when stretched
[RBW] Re: Now: IT Band Was: Goals for 2010
ooops! ... femoral antervsion,... that's femoral anteversion :)
On Jan 5, 8:28 pm, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com lylebog...@gmail.com
wrote:
David,
You've certainly got a number of variables at work here… do you have
pain in both knees? The scoliosis will likely affect the orientation
of your pelvis in the saddle, specifically I'd anticipate that your
pelvis would be somewhat rotated so the left hip/leg will be forward
of the right. This would have the effect of decreasing the internal
rotation of the thigh on the left, but increasing the amount of knee
flexion at the top of the pedal stroke on the left. Likewise, the
femoral internal rotation on the right will be somewhat increased…
There are several good reasons for the knock-knees: 1) tightness of
the hip adductors (muscles of the inner thigh), 2) tightness of the
hip internal rotators, 3) very weak hip abductors/external rotators,
4) congenital causes such as femoral torsion, femoral antervsion, or
tibiofemoral joint interface. Cause #4 we can't do anything about.
Causes 1-3 are correctable. For now, I would recommend continuing with
the stretching and strengthening of the hip muscles. When stretching,
make sure you stretch often throughout the day (more is better) and
maintain the stretched position for a few minutes at time. Too short a
stretch will yield an elastic change in the length of the tissues
being stretched; you likely need a plastic change. Also don't stretch
to the point of pain (discomfort, yes, but not pain). It may take a
couple of weeks before you notice much change in your flexibility if
you're significantly tight right now. Also remember that, even if
you're pretty strong in all the currently short muscles, you won't be
as strong in the newly acquired range of motion since you haven't been
strengthening in that range, so any strength deficits should be tended
to as well.
Changing the crank Q… widening the tread will have the effect of
decreasing somewhat the femoral internal rotation and may put the hip
external rotators into a more advantageous leverage position.
Unfortunately, it may also have the effect of increasing the external
rotation of the tibia so it may exacerbate the problem. I also have a
bias against changing more than one variable at a time since doing so
may make unclear what the most effective strategy is…
Moving the heel in a bit and lowering the saddle… I would definitely
not recommend this combination for you. If you're already internally
rotated at the femurs, decreasing saddle height will not only increase
this problem, it will also place your hip abductors/external rotators
into a disadvantageous leverage position possibly further exacerbating
the femoral internal rotation. Not changing the saddle height, but
turning your heel in (which is the same as externally rotating your
tibia) may, again, worsen the problem. Remember, femoral internal
rotation = tibial external rotation at the knee joint. Both of these
conditions are usually implicated in IT band syndrome.
Hope this makes sense!
lyle
On Jan 5, 7:48 pm, cyclotourist cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote:
Cool, thanks for the info, Lyle. Xrays show I'm knock-kneed a bit. Also
have scoliosis curve which tilts my left shoulder down toward my left hip a
bit. Dr. suggested moving my heel in a bit and saddle down a bit, does that
sound like valid advice Others have suggested widening the crank Q as
per Andy Pruitt's advice. I haven't done that yet.
So far the stretches I have done don't seem to help too much, but I just
started them last week.
Cheers,
DE
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:13 PM, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com
lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi All!
I’m joining this one late, again… and once again, this will likely be
lengthy…
IT Band trouble is rarely a primary cause of knee pain, or an
independently occurring malady. Unfortunately, there are no very good
studies of IT band syndrome. For instance, some researchers have found
that running across inclines causes IT band symptoms to occur in the
uphill leg, while others have found that the symptoms occur in the
downhill leg. Some researchers have found that slow running relieves
IT band symptoms in runners while others have found that faster
running relieves the symptoms… what the studies do not control for is
proximal (hip) and/or distal (lower leg) variables. Instead, most
researchers have only looked at “IT band tightness”, though some have
looked at the relationship between IT band symptoms and lower leg
external rotation (in ballet dancers). The upshot is that there is no
good research which implicates the IT band as a primary or independent
problem.
It is also important to note that the iliotibial band cannot be
stretched—you can apply tension through it, but there is no evidence
that a plastic change in its length can be made. We can stretch the
muscle (the tensor
[RBW] Re: Atlantis on the Great Divide Route?
Hi Ray,
I will use panniers; I've done a fair amount of dirt road/trail riding
and feel the panniers work very well for the type of terrain
encountered on the GDR. I also like the fact that panniers have less
chance of imposing mechanical breakdowns, compared to a trailer.
I will use Schwalbe Marathon XR tires, 700c x40. Again, I've used
these quite a bit and for the type of terrain in question and I think
they'd do well.
Handlebars... right now I'm using 48cm nitto noodles, but I'm
considering switching over to albatross bars... no really compelling
reason, just been rattling the idea around for a while...
I haven't decided on lighting options, but am leaning toward battery
powered with rechargeable cells (bringing plenty and recharging when
able)...
Platform pedals... maybe with clips and straps, maybe power-straps...
Obviously, I'm still working out the details but keep asking if you
think of other things :)
lyle...
On Oct 30, 6:56 am, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Lyle -- Do you mind a few set up questions?
Will you use panniers, or a trailer?
What size (and brand, model) tires will you use?
What handlebar?
Any other special components?
Thank you (and all others who have responded thus far. Very helpful, all…).
Ray
--- On Fri, 10/30/09, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
From: LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com lylebog...@gmail.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: Atlantis on the Great Divide Route?
To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Date: Friday, October 30, 2009, 6:49 AM
I'm planning on doing it on my Atlantis :)
lyle f bogart dpt
tacoma wa
On Oct 29, 8:57 am, Ray r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
Question: Is it practical to use an Atlantis on the ACA Great Divide
Route, as opposed to a hard-tail mountain bike with suspension fork?
I am thinking about mounting some appropriate large 700c knobbies,
maybe a suspension seat post or a Brooks Flyer, and probably pull a
trailer (as opposed to panniers). I have spent the past several days
reading through the journals of others who have ridden the route, and
the over-whelming bike of choice is a hard-tail mtb with suspension
forks.
What is max tire width I can use on my Atlantis? The RBW site no
longer spec's that, just a recommended minimum.
By the way, I realize that a Bombadil would fit the bill nicely. But,
I don't have the funds at present to purchase one, and I already own a
great Atlantis, which I just used on the Western Express route with
panniers. Just wondering if I should think about fixing up my
Schwinn Moab 3 hardtail for the Great Divide, or use the tour-tested
Atlantis instead.
Thank you for comments and suggestions.
Ray
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[RBW] Re: Atlantis on the Great Divide Route?
Hi Joel, Admittedly it's been a few years since I've been in the South San Juans in Colorado (used to spend a lot of time there as an Outward Bound Instructor), but last I knew, bikes were not permitted on trails there. There are many 4-wheel drive access roads throughout the area though and one wouldn't miss out on too many beautiful areas there (though, of course, you can't get to it all on the 4-wheel drive roads). lyle... On Oct 30, 9:10 am, JoelMatthews joelmatth...@mac.com wrote: Washboard. Miles and miles and miles of washboard'd dirt road. That's about the worst you'll see from the reports I've read. If you can handle that on a rigid bike, you're set. I have not bought the maps yet, so cannot say for sure, but at least the portion that goes through the San Juan wilderness area in Southern Colorado as well as the wilderness areas in Northern New Mexico would have to be trails. Unless there is a road by pass. But then you would be missing arguably the most beautiful part of the trail (I have not ridden, of course, but did hike the San Juans years ago. Cannot imagine there are too many places that come close in scenic beauty). On Oct 30, 7:45 am, Frederick, Steve frede...@mail.lib.msu.edu wrote: Dustin Sharp Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:05 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Atlantis on the Great Divide Route? Plenty of people have proved you can do it fully rigid... ...From the pics, it seems like most of the route is dirt road--not gnarly singletrack. That said, I'm sure there are a number of sections where suspension would make the whole adventure a lot more comfortable... --- - Washboard. Miles and miles and miles of washboard'd dirt road. That's about the worst you'll see from the reports I've read. If you can handle that on a rigid bike, you're set. I just got my first custom bike, a 650b-wheeled, Softtail Curtlo. I think it'd be about perfect for the GDR (with a BOB trailer) It's not a Riv bike, but pics are here for the curious: http://www.flickr.com/photos/40738...@n08/ Steve Frederick, East Lansing, MI --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Slightly OT - riding with a herniated disk
Hi Nathan,
Thanks for the additional information!
...Based on your description I couldn't figure out which 'pelvis
points'
you're referring to. Are they on the side of my upper thigh or are
they below my stomach? Can you point me to a diagram?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_superior_iliac_spine
easy way to find these points is to trace the inguinal fold--the
crease in your lower abdomen which begins near your pubis (pubic bone)
and rises up and outward towards your hips.
...I definitely feel the pain when standing
and walking (in fact a walk more than 4-5 blocks often makes it much
worse). I sometimes must limp while walking to mitigate the pain. I
also feel the pain when lying down...
and
There is also the inability to, when sitting in a chair or lying on
my
back, fully flex my left leg so that it points 90° from the floor. I'm
able to do this easily with the right leg...
These make sense (I'll write more later about this...) and fit the
picture nicely.
Keep the info coming; this is looking less less disc-y.
lyle...
On Oct 22, 6:42 am, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry I wasn't clear before - I definitely feel the pain when standing
and walking (in fact a walk more than 4-5 blocks often makes it much
worse). I sometimes must limp while walking to mitigate the pain. I
also feel the pain when lying down.
There is also the inability to, when sitting in a chair or lying on my
back, fully flex my left leg so that it points 90° from the floor. I'm
able to do this easily with the right leg.
Based on your description I couldn't figure out which 'pelvis points'
you're referring to. Are they on the side of my upper thigh or are
they below my stomach? Can you point me to a diagram?
When I lie on my back and stretch my knee like you said, I do feel
increased aching pain in my lower buttock / upper thigh. I'm not
currently experiencing the sciatica so I'm not sure if the stretch
increases it or not.
-nathan
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:47 PM, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com
lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Nathan,
Thanks for the info... Your lumbar scoliosis points to the right
(dextroscoliosis) and is a compensation for an upper left-pointing
(levoscoliosis) scoliosis. Here's my best (and briefest!) assessment:
With the symptoms you've described (...a combination of sharp pains
in my lower left back, glute, upper thigh (front and back), groin,
back of the knee, and occasional shooting/tingling pain starting at my
lower back and ending at my knee. General sciatica symptoms... mostly
achey but sometimes sharp, and also occasionally tingling. It usually
lasts for a few hours and tends to be worse at night...), I'm
inclined to think your symptoms are not, at least not entirely, caused
by your disc bulge.
The groin and front upper thigh symptoms would not be caused by a disc
bulge at L5-S1, but would have to come from L1-L4 if they were caused
by your spine directly… so we can say with certainty that that
component of the problem arises from other than the disc at L5-S1. If
I understand correctly, the onset of these symptoms was more or less
at the same time. That being the case, it would be curious, though not
impossible, for the symptoms not caused by an L5-S1 disc lesion to
occur at the same time as the symptoms possibly caused by the L5-S1
disc if in fact they were caused by the disc, unless there were some
sort of trauma involved (and it does not sound as though that's the
case). So…
Let's consider the scoliosis. Your upper scoliosis points to the left
and will have caused (typically) left rotation of the affected portion
of the spine causing you to develop a left-sided rib hump (when you
bend over to touch your toes, your left ribs will appear higher or
more prominent than your right ribs, although, because your upper
scoliosis is low with the apex at T12-L1, ther might not be much of a
rib hump at all). Conversely, your lumbar spine curves to the right
and so we can expect that your lumbar spine is also rotated to the
right. Also, the apex of the rightward curve in your lumbar spine is
at L4. Interestingly, the transition from apex of the upper curve to
the lower curve occurs over the span of just a few vertebrae (L1-L4).
Okay…
The neutral foramen are the holes through which the nerve roots pass
as they leave the spine. The foramen, though holes, are not of
constant diameter or shape. This is because the top half of the
foramen is created by a semicircular notch in the vertebra above of
the nerve root, while the lower half is created by a semicircular
notch in the vertebra below the nerve root (make sense?). The
diameter of the foramen increases (opens) with spinal flexion
(bending forward to touch your toes or while riding a bike). The
foramen opens on the right and closes (diameter decreases) on the left
in LEFT sidebending (standing erect and sliding your left hand
[RBW] Re: Slightly OT - riding with a herniated disk
bulge (I just treated a patient
today with a diagnosis from another doc of lumbar spine arthritis and
a leg-length discrepancy. Turned out he actually had a particular type
of sacro-iliac joint dysfunction which was easily reduced in the
clinic through manual therapy) for any member of my family.
Keep the questions coming if you have any about all of this (very
complicated stuff!) and also if you think of any other pertinent
information, pass that along, too... might change the picture.
Thanks for letting me think this through with you here!
lyle...
On Oct 22, 12:12 pm, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
Lyle: your suspicion was right, my left point is a couple mm more
prominent than the right point. What does that suggest?
Chris: your questions are answered in my prior messages. It's a lumbar
(L5/S1) herniation, and I got an MRI that shows a 12mm bulge on the
cord. I'm actually beginning pilates tomorrow.
-nathan
On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 6:55 AM, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com
lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Nathan,
Thanks for the additional information!
...Based on your description I couldn't figure out which 'pelvis
points'
you're referring to. Are they on the side of my upper thigh or are
they below my stomach? Can you point me to a diagram?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_superior_iliac_spine
easy way to find these points is to trace the inguinal fold--the
crease in your lower abdomen which begins near your pubis (pubic bone)
and rises up and outward towards your hips.
...I definitely feel the pain when standing
and walking (in fact a walk more than 4-5 blocks often makes it much
worse). I sometimes must limp while walking to mitigate the pain. I
also feel the pain when lying down...
and
There is also the inability to, when sitting in a chair or lying on
my
back, fully flex my left leg so that it points 90° from the floor. I'm
able to do this easily with the right leg...
These make sense (I'll write more later about this...) and fit the
picture nicely.
Keep the info coming; this is looking less less disc-y.
lyle...
On Oct 22, 6:42 am, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry I wasn't clear before - I definitely feel the pain when standing
and walking (in fact a walk more than 4-5 blocks often makes it much
worse). I sometimes must limp while walking to mitigate the pain. I
also feel the pain when lying down.
There is also the inability to, when sitting in a chair or lying on my
back, fully flex my left leg so that it points 90° from the floor. I'm
able to do this easily with the right leg.
Based on your description I couldn't figure out which 'pelvis points'
you're referring to. Are they on the side of my upper thigh or are
they below my stomach? Can you point me to a diagram?
When I lie on my back and stretch my knee like you said, I do feel
increased aching pain in my lower buttock / upper thigh. I'm not
currently experiencing the sciatica so I'm not sure if the stretch
increases it or not.
-nathan
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 10:47 PM, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com
lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Nathan,
Thanks for the info... Your lumbar scoliosis points to the right
(dextroscoliosis) and is a compensation for an upper left-pointing
(levoscoliosis) scoliosis. Here's my best (and briefest!) assessment:
With the symptoms you've described (...a combination of sharp pains
in my lower left back, glute, upper thigh (front and back), groin,
back of the knee, and occasional shooting/tingling pain starting at my
lower back and ending at my knee. General sciatica symptoms... mostly
achey but sometimes sharp, and also occasionally tingling. It usually
lasts for a few hours and tends to be worse at night...), I'm
inclined to think your symptoms are not, at least not entirely, caused
by your disc bulge.
The groin and front upper thigh symptoms would not be caused by a disc
bulge at L5-S1, but would have to come from L1-L4 if they were caused
by your spine directly… so we can say with certainty that that
component of the problem arises from other than the disc at L5-S1. If
I understand correctly, the onset of these symptoms was more or less
at the same time. That being the case, it would be curious, though not
impossible, for the symptoms not caused by an L5-S1 disc lesion to
occur at the same time as the symptoms possibly caused by the L5-S1
disc if in fact they were caused by the disc, unless there were some
sort of trauma involved (and it does not sound as though that's the
case). So…
Let's consider the scoliosis. Your upper scoliosis points to the left
and will have caused (typically) left rotation of the affected portion
of the spine causing you to develop a left-sided rib hump (when you
bend over to touch your toes, your left ribs will appear higher or
more prominent than your right ribs, although, because
[RBW] Re: Slightly OT - riding with a herniated disk
Hi Nathan, Hm... herniated discs. As a PT, I am typically suspicious of diagnoses of back pain diagnosed with a herniated disc. Here's why: First, there are usually no pre-injury images (MRI) showing that there was no bulging disc previously. Second, and very much related to the first, the imaging evidence of a bulging disc does not mean that your pain is due to the bulging disc even if the image shows the disc pressing on a nerve. There have been several good randomised control trials which show that if you take 100 people with no back pain, no radicular symptoms (pain or numbness/tingling down the legs or elsewhere) and take MRIs of their spine, in 50-60% of the cases, there will be at least one bulging disc, often pressing on a nerve root. Third, I don't know what your age is, but age we age past 30, the nucleus pulposis (the liquid center of the disc) begins to desiccate. As we age, there is, practically speaking, less disc to bulge. This disc desiccation is also why grandma and grandpa keep getting smaller-- loss of fluid in the disc equals loss of disc height, leading to loss of overall height. Fourth, and this is at least as important as the other three points, that you sometimes experience reduced pain while riding points away from the disc as the culprit. So what... Without knowing a few more specifics, I can't really offer more than to say that there are several causes of back pain and radicular symptoms which are easily overlooked during the medical diagnosis process. If you can tell me, as near as possible (don't worry about correct terminology) where you feel your pain (other than my low back), what the quality of the pain is (sharp, dull, burning, throbbing, etc...) how often it occurs, how long it lasts, what you do to alleviate the pain, what your age is... just some more details, generally. Oh, and what you were doing when you first experienced the pain. Feel free, of course, to reply off-list though I'd bet many other folks could use this info too :) Oh and I'd say don't stop riding unless it hurts too much! Best, lyle f bogart dpt tacoma, wa On Oct 21, 5:01 pm, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote: Forgive me if this is too far off topic, although it's related to Rivendell's concerns of proper bike comfort, fit, etc. After cycling 100-200 miles/week for 4 months on my Romulus I managed to get a herniated disk. I'm not positive it was caused by cycling, but it seems quite likely (my doctor thinks so too). In my research I've found that some people with this condition continue to cycle. After not riding for the first two injured months, I began riding a little bit to keep sane and have found my pain sometimes lessens while riding. Two doctors I've consulted with said it might be okay to cycle if I'm okay with it, but they seem hesitant. I'd like to hear any anecdotal stories you have about this (or healing/treatment as it pertains to cycling). I really have grown to love riding bikes and would hate to stop (but of course I'll stop when appropriate). Feel free to reply off-list. -nathan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Slightly OT - riding with a herniated disk
Oh, one more thing, Nathan: were you told what level the disc bulge is
at and which side it is on?
Thanks!
lyle
On Oct 21, 6:23 pm, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com lylebog...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Nathan,
Hm... herniated discs. As a PT, I am typically suspicious of
diagnoses of back pain diagnosed with a herniated disc. Here's why:
First, there are usually no pre-injury images (MRI) showing that
there was no bulging disc previously. Second, and very much related to
the first, the imaging evidence of a bulging disc does not mean that
your pain is due to the bulging disc even if the image shows the disc
pressing on a nerve. There have been several good randomised control
trials which show that if you take 100 people with no back pain, no
radicular symptoms (pain or numbness/tingling down the legs or
elsewhere) and take MRIs of their spine, in 50-60% of the cases, there
will be at least one bulging disc, often pressing on a nerve root.
Third, I don't know what your age is, but age we age past 30, the
nucleus pulposis (the liquid center of the disc) begins to desiccate.
As we age, there is, practically speaking, less disc to bulge. This
disc desiccation is also why grandma and grandpa keep getting smaller--
loss of fluid in the disc equals loss of disc height, leading to loss
of overall height. Fourth, and this is at least as important as the
other three points, that you sometimes experience reduced pain while
riding points away from the disc as the culprit.
So what...
Without knowing a few more specifics, I can't really offer more than
to say that there are several causes of back pain and radicular
symptoms which are easily overlooked during the medical diagnosis
process. If you can tell me, as near as possible (don't worry about
correct terminology) where you feel your pain (other than my low
back), what the quality of the pain is (sharp, dull, burning,
throbbing, etc...) how often it occurs, how long it lasts, what you do
to alleviate the pain, what your age is... just some more details,
generally. Oh, and what you were doing when you first experienced the
pain.
Feel free, of course, to reply off-list though I'd bet many other
folks could use this info too :) Oh and I'd say don't stop riding
unless it hurts too much!
Best,
lyle f bogart dpt
tacoma, wa
On Oct 21, 5:01 pm, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
Forgive me if this is too far off topic, although it's related to
Rivendell's concerns of proper bike comfort, fit, etc.
After cycling 100-200 miles/week for 4 months on my Romulus I managed
to get a herniated disk. I'm not positive it was caused by cycling,
but it seems quite likely (my doctor thinks so too).
In my research I've found that some people with this condition
continue to cycle. After not riding for the first two injured months,
I began riding a little bit to keep sane and have found my pain
sometimes lessens while riding. Two doctors I've consulted with said
it might be okay to cycle if I'm okay with it, but they seem hesitant.
I'd like to hear any anecdotal stories you have about this (or
healing/treatment as it pertains to cycling). I really have grown to
love riding bikes and would hate to stop (but of course I'll stop when
appropriate). Feel free to reply off-list.
-nathan
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Owners Bunch group.
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[RBW] Re: Slightly OT - riding with a herniated disk
Thanks for the info, Nathan!
Which side does the disc bulge toward. Also your scoliosis adds an
interesting twist (no pun intended) on things. To which direction does
your lumbar scoliosis point? Also, do you have another scoliosis
further up your spine for which your lumbar scoliosis is compensating?
Based on the information you've provided so far, I suspect there's
another cause of the back pain other than the disc bulge, but I'll
reserve comment until I hear back from you.
Very interesting :)
lyle
On Oct 21, 6:57 pm, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the followup, Lyle.
I'm 25 and have had lower-back scoliosis (currently at 24°) since I
was a teen. In late July I started noticing a combination of sharp
pains in my lower left back, glute, upper thigh (front and back),
groin, back of the knee, and occasional shooting/tingling pain
starting at my lower back and ending at my knee. General sciatica
symptoms. Over the past couple months the pain has waxed and waned,
with a few days of exceptionally bad pain (an increased amount of the
above) every couple weeks. The pain is mostly achey but sometimes
sharp, and also occasionally tingling. It usually lasts for a few
hours and tends to be worse at night. But it's always there, and I'm
painfully reminded of it every time I go from sitting to standing or
vice versa. It might be helpful to note that the best I ever felt
since the pain began was after the first time the PT did electric stem
therapy on the back.
I did 5 weeks of PT before they recommended I see a spine specialist,
at which point I got an MRI to reveal a 12mm herniation at L5/S1. The
trial statistic you mentioned was interesting - I hadn't heard that
before. Reading through all the herniated disk symptoms it definitely
seems like the cause of my pain. Does that sound likely to you?
-nathan
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:23 PM, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com
lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Nathan,
Hm... herniated discs. As a PT, I am typically suspicious of
diagnoses of back pain diagnosed with a herniated disc. Here's why:
First, there are usually no pre-injury images (MRI) showing that
there was no bulging disc previously. Second, and very much related to
the first, the imaging evidence of a bulging disc does not mean that
your pain is due to the bulging disc even if the image shows the disc
pressing on a nerve. There have been several good randomised control
trials which show that if you take 100 people with no back pain, no
radicular symptoms (pain or numbness/tingling down the legs or
elsewhere) and take MRIs of their spine, in 50-60% of the cases, there
will be at least one bulging disc, often pressing on a nerve root.
Third, I don't know what your age is, but age we age past 30, the
nucleus pulposis (the liquid center of the disc) begins to desiccate.
As we age, there is, practically speaking, less disc to bulge. This
disc desiccation is also why grandma and grandpa keep getting smaller--
loss of fluid in the disc equals loss of disc height, leading to loss
of overall height. Fourth, and this is at least as important as the
other three points, that you sometimes experience reduced pain while
riding points away from the disc as the culprit.
So what...
Without knowing a few more specifics, I can't really offer more than
to say that there are several causes of back pain and radicular
symptoms which are easily overlooked during the medical diagnosis
process. If you can tell me, as near as possible (don't worry about
correct terminology) where you feel your pain (other than my low
back), what the quality of the pain is (sharp, dull, burning,
throbbing, etc...) how often it occurs, how long it lasts, what you do
to alleviate the pain, what your age is... just some more details,
generally. Oh, and what you were doing when you first experienced the
pain.
Feel free, of course, to reply off-list though I'd bet many other
folks could use this info too :) Oh and I'd say don't stop riding
unless it hurts too much!
Best,
lyle f bogart dpt
tacoma, wa
On Oct 21, 5:01 pm, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
Forgive me if this is too far off topic, although it's related to
Rivendell's concerns of proper bike comfort, fit, etc.
After cycling 100-200 miles/week for 4 months on my Romulus I managed
to get a herniated disk. I'm not positive it was caused by cycling,
but it seems quite likely (my doctor thinks so too).
In my research I've found that some people with this condition
continue to cycle. After not riding for the first two injured months,
I began riding a little bit to keep sane and have found my pain
sometimes lessens while riding. Two doctors I've consulted with said
it might be okay to cycle if I'm okay with it, but they seem hesitant.
I'd like to hear any anecdotal stories you have about this (or
healing/treatment as it pertains to cycling). I
[RBW] Re: Slightly OT - riding with a herniated disk
is fixed and has much
less freedom for rotation. Also, if your left knee and foot are going
to point more or less straight ahead while riding, your hip now must
be internally rotated (given the fixed pelvis), which places the
(shortened due to chronic external hip rotation) piriformis muscle on
stretch which may compromise he sciatic nerve causing sciatica pain
and symptoms. You can easily test if the piriformis is involved: lay
on your back, ideally with both legs straight. Using both hands, pull
your left knee up and across toward your opposite shoulder. Is there a
very strong, possibly painful, pulling sensation in your left buttock?
Does this worsen the sciatica? If so, then you have both the culprit
and a remedy!
Here then are the suspects: closed neural foramen (hence, nerve
impingement/irritation) on the left at the vertebral levels which can
account for the groin and anterior thigh symptoms coupled with what is
known as piriformis syndrome on the left, as described just above.
Okay… it's late here and I need to get to bed… let me know if your
pelvis is also rotated (standing with toes against a wall or on a line
on the floor); let me know, too, the results of testing your
piriformis (pulling the left knee up and across to the opposite
shoulder). I'll offer a few suggestions on how to fix the problem,
what the future may look a bit like given the scoliosis, and, if the
piriformis and/or pelvis appear not to be the culprits, I'll offer one
more non-disc possible explanation for your symptoms. There's a lot of
information here, so don't be shy about it if it doesn't all make
sense :)
G'night!
lyle
On Oct 21, 7:45 pm, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
Sorry, here's more on the scoliosis and I may have the 'point' flipped:
There is a levoconvex thoracolumbar curvature with the apex at
T12-L1, and a compensatory dextroconvex lumbar curvature with its apex
at L4.
-nathan
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:36 PM, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't have that information on hand, but my scoliosis 'points' to my
left side and as far as I know I don't have another up my spine.
What is your suspicion?
-nathan
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 7:05 PM, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com
lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the info, Nathan!
Which side does the disc bulge toward. Also your scoliosis adds an
interesting twist (no pun intended) on things. To which direction does
your lumbar scoliosis point? Also, do you have another scoliosis
further up your spine for which your lumbar scoliosis is compensating?
Based on the information you've provided so far, I suspect there's
another cause of the back pain other than the disc bulge, but I'll
reserve comment until I hear back from you.
Very interesting :)
lyle
On Oct 21, 6:57 pm, nathan spindel nath...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the followup, Lyle.
I'm 25 and have had lower-back scoliosis (currently at 24°) since I
was a teen. In late July I started noticing a combination of sharp
pains in my lower left back, glute, upper thigh (front and back),
groin, back of the knee, and occasional shooting/tingling pain
starting at my lower back and ending at my knee. General sciatica
symptoms. Over the past couple months the pain has waxed and waned,
with a few days of exceptionally bad pain (an increased amount of the
above) every couple weeks. The pain is mostly achey but sometimes
sharp, and also occasionally tingling. It usually lasts for a few
hours and tends to be worse at night. But it's always there, and I'm
painfully reminded of it every time I go from sitting to standing or
vice versa. It might be helpful to note that the best I ever felt
since the pain began was after the first time the PT did electric stem
therapy on the back.
I did 5 weeks of PT before they recommended I see a spine specialist,
at which point I got an MRI to reveal a 12mm herniation at L5/S1. The
trial statistic you mentioned was interesting - I hadn't heard that
before. Reading through all the herniated disk symptoms it definitely
seems like the cause of my pain. Does that sound likely to you?
-nathan
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 6:23 PM, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com
lylebog...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Nathan,
Hm... herniated discs. As a PT, I am typically suspicious of
diagnoses of back pain diagnosed with a herniated disc. Here's why:
First, there are usually no pre-injury images (MRI) showing that
there was no bulging disc previously. Second, and very much related to
the first, the imaging evidence of a bulging disc does not mean that
your pain is due to the bulging disc even if the image shows the disc
pressing on a nerve. There have been several good randomised control
trials which show that if you take 100 people with no back pain, no
radicular symptoms (pain or numbness/tingling down the legs or
elsewhere) and take MRIs of their spine, in 50-60% of the cases
[RBW] Re: Slightly OT - riding with a herniated disk
TYPO:
Okay…
The neutral foramen are the holes through which the nerve roots
pass... should read neural NOT neutral :^|
On Oct 21, 10:47 pm, LyleBogart{AT}gmail.com lylebog...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Nathan,
Thanks for the info... Your lumbar scoliosis points to the right
(dextroscoliosis) and is a compensation for an upper left-pointing
(levoscoliosis) scoliosis. Here's my best (and briefest!) assessment:
With the symptoms you've described (...a combination of sharp pains
in my lower left back, glute, upper thigh (front and back), groin,
back of the knee, and occasional shooting/tingling pain starting at my
lower back and ending at my knee. General sciatica symptoms... mostly
achey but sometimes sharp, and also occasionally tingling. It usually
lasts for a few hours and tends to be worse at night...), I'm
inclined to think your symptoms are not, at least not entirely, caused
by your disc bulge.
The groin and front upper thigh symptoms would not be caused by a disc
bulge at L5-S1, but would have to come from L1-L4 if they were caused
by your spine directly… so we can say with certainty that that
component of the problem arises from other than the disc at L5-S1. If
I understand correctly, the onset of these symptoms was more or less
at the same time. That being the case, it would be curious, though not
impossible, for the symptoms not caused by an L5-S1 disc lesion to
occur at the same time as the symptoms possibly caused by the L5-S1
disc if in fact they were caused by the disc, unless there were some
sort of trauma involved (and it does not sound as though that's the
case). So…
Let's consider the scoliosis. Your upper scoliosis points to the left
and will have caused (typically) left rotation of the affected portion
of the spine causing you to develop a left-sided rib hump (when you
bend over to touch your toes, your left ribs will appear higher or
more prominent than your right ribs, although, because your upper
scoliosis is low with the apex at T12-L1, ther might not be much of a
rib hump at all). Conversely, your lumbar spine curves to the right
and so we can expect that your lumbar spine is also rotated to the
right. Also, the apex of the rightward curve in your lumbar spine is
at L4. Interestingly, the transition from apex of the upper curve to
the lower curve occurs over the span of just a few vertebrae (L1-L4).
Okay…
The neutral foramen are the holes through which the nerve roots pass
as they leave the spine. The foramen, though holes, are not of
constant diameter or shape. This is because the top half of the
foramen is created by a semicircular notch in the vertebra above of
the nerve root, while the lower half is created by a semicircular
notch in the vertebra below the nerve root (make sense?). The
diameter of the foramen increases (opens) with spinal flexion
(bending forward to touch your toes or while riding a bike). The
foramen opens on the right and closes (diameter decreases) on the left
in LEFT sidebending (standing erect and sliding your left hand down
your left leg is a left side bend). Extreme rotation in either
direction can close the foramen. Now then…
I'm going to hazard a guess, and I look forward to your findings when
you do this. First, you know those points on the right and left sides
of your pelvis which are prominent when you lay flat on your back? I
suspect that, if you stand in a natural stance with your toes
against a wall or toes on a line on the floor, the point on the left
will be more prominent (further forward) than the point on the right,
even if only slightly (millimeters do matter :) ). If this is the
case, then the rotation (rightward) of your lumbar spine has continued
down through the pelvis. I will presume that this is the case, in
which case the following occurs: On the left, in typical weightbearing
activities (standing , walking, etc.) your left hip is relatively
externally rotated (external rotation of the hip occurs when you point
your toes outward by rotating your entire leg in that direction), and
that's okay most of the time, except that chronic external rotation of
the hip leads to shortening of certain muscles in the posterior hip,
most notably for us right now, the piriformis muscle…
The piriformis has a medial attachment on the front (belly side) of
your sacrum (the large flat bone which forms the back of your pelvis
and from which hangs your coccyx or tailbone), passes through your
pelvis and attaches to the top rear of your femur (thigh bone). This
muscle is a hip external rotator and overlaps a smaller muscle called
the superior gemellus. Passing over the superior gemellus and
underneath the piriformis is the sciatic nerve. If the piriformis is
excessively tight, the sciatic nerve can become impinged between the
two muscles with sciatic symptoms resulting. But you don't, if I
understand it correctly, have symptoms when you're up and around
walking and the like (correct
[RBW] Re: Wiggy's Sleeping Bag
I've used Wiggy's bags over the years for cycling as well as for backcountry skiing, climbing, and general camping. I've also used down bags and other synthetics... Wiggy's are great bags. Like all synthetics, they pack bulkier than down, but that is, in my experience, inconsequential for most applications. lyle f bogart dpt tacoma, wa On Oct 12, 9:13 pm, mizrachi mizrachi1...@gmail.com wrote: The Wiggy's Desert Mummy Sleeping Bag found on the Riv site looks compelling but I can find no other reviews of the product. I'm in the market for a sleeping bag (and a 2-person tent) to use on a short tour and I live in Northern Florida, so a summer/fall weight bag would be appropriate, though we do get about a week of near freezing temperatures in the middle of winter. Anyway, I'm intrigued by some of the rectangular shaped bags as well, or at least mummy bags that offer some room to breath, especially in the toe box, or bags that can unzip fully and act more as a blanket than a snug fitting bag. At home, my feet usually like to be on the outside of my comforter and I can imagine feeling pretty overheated and claustrophobic in something too restrictive. Any Wiggy's users out there? Or other recommendations that might work in my case? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: riv vapor barriers
Sleeping in a vapor barrier in temperatures above zero (that's fahrenheit) is just awful... it may keep you warm, but you'll also be, shall we say, quite moist... yuck. lyle f bogart dpt tacoma, wa On Oct 12, 9:09 am, pecanpie jupiterthunderb...@yahoo.com wrote: hi all i bought the wiggy's sleeping bag and love it, but the vapor barrier gives me the willies just touching it.that stretchy plastic feel just gives me the creeps. have any of you bought the vapor barrier from riv. im wondering if it is worth suffering through the weird feel if it really works. i doubt ill ever be camping below freezing anyway. so maybe i dont need it. thanks --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: Winter Riding Clothing
Hi Mike, Wool...and for when it gets nasty, a jacket from these folks: http://www.bicycleclothing.com/Waterproof-Breathable-Rain-Jackets.html I've got one and like it so much I even use it as my primary rain jacket when I'm not riding. Good Luck! lyle f bogart dpt tacoma, wa On Oct 3, 1:30 pm, geezer bair.m...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all. I'm looking to improve my winter wardrobe this year. I'm specifically looking for a jacket and pants that work well for riding - somewhat trim, zippers for ventilation etc. I live in northern Michigan (the home of miserable winters) so, realistically, I'll park the bike when it hits around 20 degrees and/or the snow and ice become glacial. I'm willing to spend some bucks on this stuff. I understand layering - I'm mostly interested in outerwear. I'll do the research - just point me in a direction for stuff that has worked for you. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions, Mike --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: wool jerseys
Hi Seth, I bought one of their wool cycling jackets--full zip, no rear pockets--for cold weather riding; I don't see these on their website any longer. The customer service was excellent and the order was shipped and received very promptly. At some point after I'd placed my order and before they'd shipped the order, they lowered the price on the jacket and reimbursed me the difference. The quality of the jacket is very good, the fit is true to size, and its looks prompt compliments from strangers, including non-cyclists. I've worn it for about 800 miles in varied weather and it is wearing well; no signs of fatigue yet! I also purchased a pair of their messenger knicks and I like them quite a lot, though I did modify them by cutting out the inner short to which the chamois is stitched. I fully expect that I'll do business with them again. Best, lyle On Sep 15, 7:26 pm, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote: The subject of rivendell jerseys came up last week and this week I saw these: http://www.oregoncyclewear.com/page/page/2010300.htm my questions are: 1. has anyone worked with them before? 2. Are they any good? -sv --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
