[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Yes it is a 9. I've wanted to switch to Silver Thumbies so that might just 
be the next upgrade. Good point about the derailleur too, that's something 
to consider.

On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 6:11:32 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey wrote:

> Hi Vincent,
>
> That Clem is beautiful, but your shifting issue sounds frustrating. Are 
> you running a 9-speed cassette in the back? I had the indexing Sunrace 
> thumbie on my Rivendell and performance felt just ok. My vintage Suntour 
> thumb shifters from 1983 were better, and now I have a Riv silver thumbie 
> on and it's also better. I suggest you buy one Riv silver thumbie and try 
> that out. I clearly remember the PDF saying the stock shifters clicked but 
> did not index. 
>
> Also, consider that the Altus rear derailleur is a $13 part. Maybe it's 
> just not up for your rough rides on the train tracks? I have a silver 
> thumbie with the SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur shifting a 9-speed 
> cassette, and it works perfectly. I highly recommend it. It has a clutch on 
> it so you can forget about chain slap and dropped chains. It's available 
> for nice prices because the trend in mountain bikes is now 12 speeds. (A 
> matching 10 speed click shifter is also available for cheap, but I haven't 
> tried it.)
>
> I also have a narrow-wide chainring on the front. Perhaps you should 
> consider one. How often are you using the biggest chainring? For me it's 
> never (I took it off) because live in a city and commute so I rarely get up 
> to speed for longer than 4 minutes. Are you regularly cruising above 15 
> MPH? If not, go lower with your gearing. Wolf-Tooth and Stridsland both 
> have excellent narrow-wide chainrings that will fit your cranks. Fewer 
> moving parts is a nice thing for your bike. 
>
> I hope this helps. Happy riding. 
>
> Michael 
>
>
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>> complete Clem.
>>
>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>> force on the first two gears.
>>
>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
>> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>
>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>
>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>> stripped cogs. 
>>
>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>> situation? Thank you!
>>
>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
>> shifter.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Thank you all for the advice!

On Friday, March 15, 2024 at 5:54:40 AM UTC-7 steve...@gmail.com wrote:

> Vincent, Garth's comments regarding cross chaining sure do seem like a 
> likely explanation for the accelerated wear on the outer two cogs.  Looking 
> at your picture of the bike, it appears the cranks are mounted on a fairly 
> narrow bottom bracket spindle. If the spindle is narrow enough to move your 
> chain line inboard - further away from the smaller cogs on the rear end - 
> that would likely accelerate wear on those cogs. Frequent cross chaining 
> from the inner chain ring to those smaller cogs would amplify the effect. 
> Might be worth your trouble to check the chain line as you try to solve the 
> riddle. 
>
> Steve
>
>
> On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 9:11:32 PM UTC-4 Michael Morrissey wrote:
>
>> Hi Vincent,
>>
>> That Clem is beautiful, but your shifting issue sounds frustrating. Are 
>> you running a 9-speed cassette in the back? I had the indexing Sunrace 
>> thumbie on my Rivendell and performance felt just ok. My vintage Suntour 
>> thumb shifters from 1983 were better, and now I have a Riv silver thumbie 
>> on and it's also better. I suggest you buy one Riv silver thumbie and try 
>> that out. I clearly remember the PDF saying the stock shifters clicked but 
>> did not index. 
>>
>> Also, consider that the Altus rear derailleur is a $13 part. Maybe it's 
>> just not up for your rough rides on the train tracks? I have a silver 
>> thumbie with the SRAM GX 10 speed rear derailleur shifting a 9-speed 
>> cassette, and it works perfectly. I highly recommend it. It has a clutch on 
>> it so you can forget about chain slap and dropped chains. It's available 
>> for nice prices because the trend in mountain bikes is now 12 speeds. (A 
>> matching 10 speed click shifter is also available for cheap, but I haven't 
>> tried it.)
>>
>> I also have a narrow-wide chainring on the front. Perhaps you should 
>> consider one. How often are you using the biggest chainring? For me it's 
>> never (I took it off) because live in a city and commute so I rarely get up 
>> to speed for longer than 4 minutes. Are you regularly cruising above 15 
>> MPH? If not, go lower with your gearing. Wolf-Tooth and Stridsland both 
>> have excellent narrow-wide chainrings that will fit your cranks. Fewer 
>> moving parts is a nice thing for your bike. 
>>
>> I hope this helps. Happy riding. 
>>
>> Michael 
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>>
>>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>>> complete Clem.
>>>
>>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>>> force on the first two gears.
>>>
>>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due 
>>> to the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>>
>>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>>
>>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>>> stripped cogs. 
>>>
>>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>>> situation? Thank you!
>>>
>>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: shifter.jpg]
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Friction Shifting Issues with my Old Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Thank you guys. The suntour shifters don't bug me so much as I may have 
made it out in the initial post. I was just not sure if they were causing 
this wear on the rear cassette or not. I only have a double crank and 
rarely cross chain. Usually I'm on the largest toothed chainring on the 
front which aligns with the smaller two on the rear. However there may have 
been an instance recently where I cross chained that did the damage. I'll 
have to take a closer look but this info helps. Thanks!

On Thursday, March 14, 2024 at 1:41:11 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:

> Vinvent, the Sunrace shifters ratcheting is there only as part of the 
> tension holding friction mechanism. It was in use well before indexed came 
> to be in use. That indexed shifters happen to click once per shift change 
> in unrelated to the ratcheting clicks of the friction variety. I've not 
> used those shifters in particular, I've only used Sun Tour Power ratchets 
> and other pure friction shifters. My best "advice" for those Sunrace 
> shifters is to forget about the clicks altogther as *they are not 
> designed for one click per gear shift.* Just adjust the lever by feel and 
> sound of the cogs. If you've never used friction shifters before this I can 
> see how the clicking may appear confusing if mistaking the friction 
> ratcheting sound with indexing clicks, but they're two distinctly different 
> mechanisms. Some readers here have ended up replacing those particular 
> Sunrace shifters with a more normal ratcheting friction shifters on the 
> outside, like the Riv Silver or Microshift or vintage Sun Tour. 
>
> The grinding and wear of the two smallest cogs appears from varying angles 
> of the chain as you use a given ring with a given cog. It's called 
> "cross-chaining". For example, riding in the smallest ring of triple crank 
> like yours and the smallest cogs of the cassette is asking the chain to 
> flex laterally to angles past their limits of efficiency. Even the middle 
> ring and smallest two cogs has a fair amount of friction from the angles, 
> depending on the chainline(how far the center-rings are from the center of 
> the seat tube). Hence, you'll hear and feel what you describe and will wear 
> the cogs down faster than usual if consistently ridden that way. 
>
> Here's cross-chaing explained : 
> https://wickwerks.com/support/crosschaining/
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 11:40:52 PM UTC-4 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
>> I have an on going issue with my friction shifting setup on my 2016 
>> complete Clem.
>>
>> I believe this will be my third cassette replacement now. Each time the 
>> two smallest cogs are damaged/stripped for some reason, so that when I 
>> pedal there is some crunching & ghost shifting. I cannot pedal with full 
>> force on the first two gears.
>>
>> I’ve had issues with this since day one and I have a feeling it is due to 
>> the 2016 complete clem’s shifting setup even though I’ve had it adjusted 
>> and have explained to two different bike technicians.
>>
>> The shifter setup is odd, Riv even commented on how it was a little 
>> strange in the Clem intro Pdf that was floating around for the longest time 
>> (cannot find it now). I'm hoping someone knows what I'm talking about!
>>
>> These suntour shifters are set up in a reverse position and that they 
>> have some kind of ratcheting mech in them. The clicks don’t always coincide 
>> with a shift and maybe that has created some bad friction shifting form on 
>> my part. Outside of that I’m at a loss for why I am having issues with 
>> stripped cogs. 
>>
>> I’m considering switching to an indexed set up even though I don’t want 
>> to but before I do, does any one have any wisdom they can shed on this 
>> situation? Thank you!
>>
>> Pics are attached, of the whole bike (for fun) and of the shifter. I'll 
>> grab some shots of the gears as well when I can.[image: 
>> DSCF7718_sml.jpg][image: 
>> shifter.jpg]
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sackville Saddlesack Small Olive

[Vincent Tamer]

SOLD

On Monday, July 3, 2023 at 7:47:49 AM UTC-7 Vincent Tamer wrote:

> *BUMP *$110 Shipped within the 48
> On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 10:17:49 AM UTC-7 Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
>> I have a Small Saddlesack (the model before the current bag boy, I 
>> believe). It was purchased brand new and has sat for pretty much the entire 
>> time I've owned it. It was on my bike for maybe a week, with a rack 
>> underneath.
>>
>> See pics: https://photos.app.goo.gl/vLUyCfWoX4JE122z9
>>
>> $120 Shipped within the 48 states
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Sackville Saddlesack Small Olive

[Vincent Tamer]

*BUMP *$110 Shipped within the 48
On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 10:17:49 AM UTC-7 Vincent Tamer wrote:

> I have a Small Saddlesack (the model before the current bag boy, I 
> believe). It was purchased brand new and has sat for pretty much the entire 
> time I've owned it. It was on my bike for maybe a week, with a rack 
> underneath.
>
> See pics: https://photos.app.goo.gl/vLUyCfWoX4JE122z9
>
> $120 Shipped within the 48 states
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Clem H

[Vincent Tamer]

Very nice to see a custom painted clem!

On Sunday, July 2, 2023 at 3:51:28 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Bike is sold! Thanks all!
>
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 8:55:07 PM UTC-7 Ryan Frahm wrote:
>
>> I realize that I completely forgot to put that this is a 59cm frame! 
>> Thanks Richard!
>>
>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 12:43:34 PM UTC-7 Ryan Frahm wrote:
>>
>>> Asking $2250
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, May 30, 2023 at 12:41:56 PM UTC-7 Ryan Frahm wrote:
>>>
 This Clem has been a great commuter but I’ve decided to go back to a 
 bike with thru axles for hauling my daughter in her trailer. I have some 
 cheaper wheels and might take off the racks if it there isn’t any interest 
 but thought I’d list it as is for now. I had the bike powder coated a 
 beautiful whiskey bronze before this past winter (he was able to do a 
 great 
 job on the accent color). The lower tube shows wear from the cable lock 
 but 
 no real scratches or chips that are through the powder. It needs a deeper 
 clean that I will do before letting it go, otherwise the bike is in great 
 shape!

 I believe it is a 2018 but could be a 19. 

 SimWorks Standalone rims with SON28 front hub/WI MI5 rear (very little 
 use)
 Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge tires
 60cm Tosco bars
 135mm FacePlater stem 
 Riv Silver shifters (Riv-ersed)
 Deore brakes with Kool Stop dual compound pads
 Cheap SunRace brake levers
 SRAM 10sp GX derailleur 
 Silver cranks 38/24 White Industries bolts with Blue Lug brass 
 extractors
 Shimano XT cassette 11-34
 MKS bear trap pedals
 Brooks B17 (well used but still good shape overall)
 Pass and Stow 5 rail front rack with wall 137 basket (a scrape on front 
 of the rack and basket has some bends to it)
 Nitto R-14 rear rack
 Forager cable cherries
 Top of seatpost clamp and bolt assembly replaced with Nitto ones 
 because stock kept slipping 
 MKS fenders

 The fork was replaced with a new Hunq for when I had it painted. The 
 stock fork was just slightly off but it bugged me. The bonus is that the 
 new for has mounts for a low rider rack!

 Let me know if you have any questions or want more pictures. Thank for 
 looking!




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[RBW] FS: Sackville Saddlesack Small Olive

[Vincent Tamer]

I have a Small Saddlesack (the model before the current bag boy, I 
believe). It was purchased brand new and has sat for pretty much the entire 
time I've owned it. It was on my bike for maybe a week, with a rack 
underneath.

See pics: https://photos.app.goo.gl/vLUyCfWoX4JE122z9

$120 Shipped within the 48 states

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[RBW] Re: Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[Vincent Tamer]

I have a bad mental habit of doing this with not just my clem but all my 
gear. I don't like to mistreat my things but it can become an unhealthy 
obsession. Something to meditate on that some will find morbid: our 
obsession with our bikes (or anything else) remaining pristine and 
beautiful is ultimately a fear of death. It's not good to fear death, so 
just enjoy the things you own and love them well. Take care of them but 
don't avoid using them so that they remain in art gallery quality. 

On Saturday, November 5, 2022 at 3:15:18 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Did you read Grant’s Blahg? He covers a lot of ground, but most notable to 
> me was the Please Don’t Be Precious About Your Rivendell section. In sum, 
> Grant is saying it saddens him to think of people riding beater bikes 
> instead of their Rivendells to do daily, monotonous tasks - because those 
> tasks make up a lot of real life. If one “saves” their Rivendell, it will 
> not realize its potential, sit mostly unused and then pass to one’s heirs 
> who will sell it in “near mint” condition on EBay, and how sad. What was 
> the bike for?
>
> I have found myself both guilty and innocent on the matter. My #1 favorite 
> bike is my raspberry Platypus. I ride it all the time, because I bought it 
> to ride it, but I also dread any harm coming to it, and I do guard it from 
> that. I got a second Platypus that I dedicated to shopping and traveling 
> with and promised not to be precious about it. But now and then I still am 
> tempted to backslide. When traveling to the Philly Bike Expo I dithered 
> about which bike to bring. I didn’t want my raspberry Platy damaged while 
> locked up at racks and I feared it being stolen. Roberta said, “I don’t 
> think you have a choice, Leah. That’s the bike people will expect you to 
> bring.” And she was right, and I did. 
>
> Then, there is Pam. Pam is at the other far end of the spectrum. Her bike 
> is a model of beausage. Innumerable paint chips and little spots of rust 
> cover her tiny Betty frame. Her Backabike bags are full of holes and the 
> elastic closures are worn out. She locks it up and never worries about it. 
> She did not obsessively stare out the restaurant window to see if it was 
> still locked to the rack while we were at dinner (like yours truly). But 
> she loves her bike, has real affection for it. She looked at me, eyes 
> shining, and said exactly that. Ana, PurpleRiv, is another good example to 
> us. She adores her bike, but has not spared it from hard work. Her bike has 
> hauled obscene loads and taken her everywhere. I remember there was that 
> one fateful camping trip for she 1. Posed it for a photo, only to have it 
> topple and slide down the face of a boulder next to it. I believe she said 
> she sat there and wept for 2 hours over her Joe Bell paint. And who among 
> us would not do the same? 2. Same trip, another photo op, and the bike fell 
> off a cliff. 
>
> So, who truly loves their Rivendell? The one who lavishes it with care and 
> protection? Or the one who pulls it out of the garage and into all of life 
> - the mundane and the adventurous? 
>
> On one end of the spectrum we have those who will only take a Rivendell 
> out for special occasions so as not to spoil it, and on the other…well, we 
> have Pam and Ana, who will give it a good thrashing. (Oh, don’t take it 
> personally, friends, I’m being funny about both types of owners.)
>
> I find myself wanting to be precious but fighting it and succeeding *most* 
> of the time. I’m lucky that the raspberry paint hides beausage and dirt, so 
> it looks pretty new. But a dent in the top tube or a large chip in the 
> paint would really hurt my feelings. Heaven help me. 
>
> Where are you on the spectrum? What words of wisdom might you have? What 
> strategies do you employ? Do you want to change? Or are you 
> unapologetically staying put on the matter? It might be fun to hear 
> perspectives.
> Leah
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Let’s say I made my Clem into a “gravel bike”

[Vincent Tamer]

I dig Ultradynamico Cava's on my clem H. I ride gravel whenever I can on my 
commute.

https://ultradynamico.com/products/cava-robusto?variant=31214452768853

On Saturday, June 3, 2023 at 1:15:22 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I love pavement. But I’ve been on two gravel rides in the last month and I 
> rode a Platy either time and it wasn’t my favorite for that bike. But, I 
> have my old 2019 52 cm Clem L, and it doesn’t have a dedicated purpose 
> right now and shouldn’t that be the bike for rough and tough stuff like 
> gravel? Also, my Platys are prisses. 
>
> BUT. I’m not good at gravel. I have no idea what the kids are doing these 
> days. I have questions, and you have answers.
>
> 1. Can I keep my VO wavy fenders on a gravel bike? Here’s what I have, and 
> they say up to 50 mm tire will fit:[image: IMG_5029.jpeg]
> 2. Slick or knobby? I can’t even get a straight answer on this. Which is 
> better? If it matters about the rider, this will be for a rider with a 
> healthy fear of crashing.
>
> 3. How wide? I have 42s on my bikes now and I don’t feel like they are 
> wide enough. 
>
> 4. Tubeless or no? These wheels are tubeless-compatible but I put a tube 
> in them because I wasn’t riding enough to keep the sealant circulating. But 
> that can be changed right quick.
>
> Here is my Clem in its current configuration, and yes, I know the 
> Backabikes gotta go. 
>
> [image: IMG_1812.jpeg]
> Thanks for your help!
> Leah 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Earl Craig's Atlantis on the Blug

[Vincent Tamer]

The whole point of the Atlantis is that it is meant for loaded touring. The 
second tube goes on the bikes for taller riders who are presumably heavier. 
That along with a heavy touring load makes the extra tube a good idea.

On Tuesday, August 4, 2020 at 6:58:58 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> You are right that a second top tube will do something structurally; 
> there's no avoiding that, and I overstated my own case. But my point is 
> that for anything but a very large frame, or for a frame to be ridden by 
> someone exceptionally heavy, there's no **practical** purposes served by 
> the added tube.
>
> Still, that Atlantis frame does look very pretty; far nicer IMO than the 
> other models with 2 top tubes; they got the mix of straight and curved just 
> right.
>
> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 12:07 AM S  wrote:
>
>> As is my habit, I overstated my case. What I said is technically true, 
>> because of physics, but I can believe the real world effect might be 
>> negligible. 
>>
>> In the back of my mind was the side discussion on here or iBob about the 
>> supposed deadness of the Surly Cross Check frame. Some forum members -- me 
>> included -- insisted the frame was a dog, no question, while others 
>> disagreed. As it turned out, those in the former camp had the 56 and those 
>> in the latter camp larger sizes. The theory was floated that maybe the 
>> frame "opens up," that is, flexes more, in a good way, in the larger sizes 
>> -- and with generally heavier riders -- and that accounted for the 
>> difference. To me, this seems plausible. And if it's plausible that a frame 
>> could improve in this way, then it also seems plausible that, conversely, 
>> some frames could open up *too much* and become too flexy, in larger sizes, 
>> thus necessitating some modification to maintain the same relative 
>> stiffness as in the smaller sizes. 
>>
>> Also in the back of my mind was the experience of my larger cycling 
>> friends who seem to break more frames than I ever have. But then, that's 
>> anecdotal. 
>>
>> I don't know if Grant ran any numbers or did any testing before deciding 
>> to add the second tube to some bikes. Could just be for looks, or could be 
>> a belt and suspenders kind of thing. Or a mix. But I wouldn't say it's 
>> totally off base from an engineering point of view. 
>>
>> Anyway, you've ridden more 60 (and maybe 60 plus?) size frames than I 
>> have, and if you say you don't feel a difference, then I can't argue. 
>>
>> On Monday, August 3, 2020 at 8:27:15 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Not true at all, unless -- perhaps -- you are well over 200 lb and carry 
>>> heavy loads. I owned and rode a 60 c-c frame extensively -- my best level 
>>> top tube size is 60 c-c -- and there was no more flex notiher 6- X 56 
>>> c-cceable than with an 18" mountain bike frame. And this frame was made 
>>> from standard gauge, and not OS, tubes.
>>>
>>> I currently have another 60 X 56 c-c frame being refurbished; this is 
>>> also standard gauge, and it is *very* light: 5.9 lb for frame + fork + 
>>> steel Campy headset; I *do not* expect to need a second top tube. I'm 
>>> 175.
>>>
>>> And my best load carrier of all time, that happily and securely carried 
>>> 40+ in back (on an 11 oz rack!) was made from standard gauge, lightweight 
>>> 531 and was noticeably lighter than my 2003, 58 c-c Riv frame that weighed 
>>> 7 lb for frame + fork and Ultegra headset. This frame was a 58 c-c, IIRC.
>>>
>>> For anyone under say 250 lb who does not carry camping loads, a second 
>>> top tube is ornamental, not structural. Amen.
>>>
>>> Back when I lived in India and Pakistan and Kenya, you'd often see heavy 
>>> duty models of the stereotypical rod brake roadster wtih a second top tube 
>>> (and with heavy aftermarket fork braces), but these were bikes cheaply made 
>>> from cheap, weak tubing that carried 100 lb loads of firewood or 200 lb 
>>> loads of charcoal in gunny sacks, or a family of 4; even so, most Indian 
>>> and Pakistani made r b roadsters have single top tubes.
>>>
>>> Upshot: they look cool, but their benefit is purely aesthetic.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 8:19 PM S  wrote:
>>>
 Yes, the extra tube strengthens the frame. Otherwise you would be left 
 with a wobblier triangle and have to use thicker tubes and there goes at 
 least some of your weight savings. I think it's a good solution and looks 
 cool, so a double win. 

 On Monday, August 3, 2020 at 11:42:08 AM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I can imagine it's useful once you get into the 60cm range, since the 
> average rider weight is going up while the structural triangulation of 
> the 
> frame is going down.  But I can't deny that I love the totally 
> unnecessary 
> extra tube on the Hunq so who am I to judge. 
>
> The "unnecessary tube" I want, and would put on a Riv custom if I ever 
> got one, would be the lift handle from the Rosco's. I keep hoping for it 

Re: [RBW] Re: Website is live featuring beautiful bikes & surroundings

[Vincent Tamer]

Beautiful pics man! You've inspired me to do the same! 

On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 8:19:46 PM UTC-7 Clark Fitzgerald wrote:

> Nice pics, thanks for sharing. Your bikes look immaculate!
>
> On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 7:19:41 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Andrew: Thanks for those *apercus*. I am corrected about the Roadini, 
>> and am happy to be so corrected because, if the Roadini is more "spritely" 
>> (technical term) than the Ram, and since the Ram was a decently performing, 
>> if not orgasmically wonderful bike, the Roadini wil indeed be something 
>> desirable to ride.
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 6:21 PM Andrew Turner  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So the Ram actually belongs to my father but I've snuck in enough rides 
>>> to still form a decent opinion despite different saddle preferences. 
>>>
>>> Between the Ram and the Roadini unloaded, I would say the Roadini is a 
>>> more lively, springy ride, most notably in the front end. I only weigh 
>>> 130lbs so all this 'frame flex' shenanigans usually means bupkis to me but 
>>> that's not the case on the Roadini. Both are superb handlers but the 
>>> Roadini adds a new spice to the dish. 
>>>
>>> Now as far as ease of pedaling is concerned, that's a bit tricky because 
>>> I think the two bikes want two different things to perform at their best. 
>>> To get the most out of a Roadini would mean packing as few things as 
>>> possible and riding it as a dedicated road bike. The Ram, I feel wants just 
>>> a little bit more weight on it's back, but again that's coming from Mr. 
>>> Twig. From my perspective then, I'd say the Roadini was the easier pedaler. 
>>>
>>> So if you're looking for a more spirited yet comfortable ride, I'd 
>>> choose the Roadini, but if you're like me and want to pack more than you 
>>> need for rides, I'd go with the Ram. At the end of the day though, both 
>>> would get you to where you need to be with energy to spare. 
>>>
>>> - Andrew
>>>
>>> On Sunday, July 26, 2020 at 5:55:17 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 On Sun, Jul 26, 2020 at 4:25 PM RichS  wrote:

> ...
>
 Are the ride characteristics of your Roadini and Ram similar? 
> Appearance wise the Ram looks a touch more stout than the Roadini.
>

 I'd be interested in hearing about the differences, too. I owned a 
 blue-era Ram; nice bike. For some reason I got the impression that the 
 Roadini had rather stout tubing, like that of the Sam Hillborne, for 
 example, but I can't back up that opinion. My 2 questions:

 How does handling differ, if it does?

 How does "ease of pedaling"* differ, if it does?

 *This is how I judge which bikes I like to ride: the "nice" ones feel 
 easier to pedal, as measured by the desire to shift to a smaller cog in 
 given conditions.

  

> Looking forward to seeing more of your landscape images down the road. 
> Thanks again.
>

 +1 

 Patrick Moore, who was just this morning once again surprised by the 
 "easy to pedal" quality of his 1999 Riv Road fixed gofast after 21 years 
 of 
 such surprises.

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 -- 
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Favorite Rivendell model names?

[Vincent Tamer]

All the quaint, normal-ish names are great: Sam Hillborne, A. Homer Hilsen, 
Cheviot. Clem Smith gets a little weird, but its my bike so I like it!

Also Quickbeam, Legolas and Roadini are great, as is Hunqapillar, which is 
just weird enough to work.


No go: Gus Boots Wilsen, Wolbis Slugstone, Susie Longbolts (bleh). 

On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 7:17:21 PM UTC-7, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> Or, “Let’s Fight About Something On Topic!” 
>
> Let’s hear your most and least favorite Rivendell model names. No name 
> calling, even about the names. 
>
> What is your favorite Rivendell model name? Mine is Legolas. It’s real 
> hard to separate out the bike itself from the name for me. For example, I 
> don’t like the Sam Hillborn name, but that might be because it sounded like 
> a downmarket A. Homer Hilsen. On the other hand, I LOVE the name Platypus, 
> and want one of those bikes no matter what it looks like! 
>
> Hunqapillar - how genius is that?! 
> Wolbis Slugstone, though? My least favorite, in a walk. 
>
> I only ask because I found this anonymous poll about Rivendell model 
> names: https://forms.gle/FEf5TeFkr4fZQdxEA 
>
> Philip 
> Santa Rosa, CA 
>
>

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[RBW] Locking Up your Riv

[Vincent Tamer]

So I notice the Abus Bordo came back in stock on the Riv site. Does anyone 
have any experience with this lock?

I've been considering it because I wanted a quick lock up lock for my Clem 
Smith opposed to my ulock and cable.  I also wanted to support Riv. :)


What do you all use in the various conditions that you lock your bike up in?

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[RBW] Re: New batch of Sam Hillbornes this fall.

[Vincent Tamer]

I'm hoping Sam can be my next bike (no less than 5 years from now). I am a 
Clem owner so I think a Sam would be the perfect compliment. I dig the 
Black and Cream as well as the Sage!

On Saturday, May 16, 2020 at 5:29:13 PM UTC-7, Grady Wright wrote:
>
> The Email Newsletter from Rivendell yesterday mentioned Sam Hillbornes are 
> coming later this year and maybe in an older Rivendell color. Any guesses 
> what that color could be?

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[RBW] Sun Protection in Sunny Climes

[Vincent Tamer]

REI makes some great UV resist clothing. I gave up wearing shorts for the most 
part, because they just aren’t that fashionable. Now on hot days I wear some 
very thin hiking pants from REI. They work fine. I wore them in the Philippines 
in 90 F weather with 85 percent humidity and they were good in the weather, esp 
for keeping the ants away, not that you have that problem. 

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[RBW] Re: Fancy Cheviot!

[Vincent Tamer]

I agree with Bicycle Belle, no Wolbis, No Slugstone! Keep it classy Riv!

On Thursday, April 23, 2020 at 6:42:42 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> It lives, it's in the new newsletter and here's the pic. I have the 
> somewhat dubious distinction (I think) of being the first "outsider" to 
> know about this project when Grant and Will mentioned it to me at RBW last 
> year. So now I'll start the thread!
>
> It's fancy and swoopy and I dig it. I also dig the original name and 
> decals (and sheep) so I'm adding my non-requested vote for keeping them. 
> Check it out, it's pretty! 
>
> Joe Bernard
> Marin County CA.  
>
>

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[RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

[Vincent Tamer]

I would like to put knobbies on my Clem! I was afraid my fenders would 
interfere with that but it looks like you’ve got a good setup there! What size 
tire are you running?

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[RBW] Re: Go Get A Clem, Folks! Clem H Initial Ride Report - 28 Oct 2018

[Vincent Tamer]

Clem is a great bike and currently my only one. From commuting to camping 
this bike does it all. Here is a pic in it's current iteration. I might go 
back to the basket when it gets cold and I need more layers in the days.


https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0OGWZuqDGlRvYK

On Sunday, October 28, 2018 at 7:14:56 PM UTC-7, tc wrote:
>
> People, if you don't have a Clem, go get one.   I'll even make it easy for 
> you:
>
> *Complete builds:*
> Clem H 
> 
>  (and 
> mustard's are on sale for less, here 
> 
> )
> Clem L 
> 
>
> *Frames:*
> Clem H 
> 
> Clem L 
> 
>
> The Clem is such a phenomenally fun knock-around bike. If you're thinking 
> of the H style, then hurry...per Grant's Oct 2nd BLAGH (pay attention to 
> his last sentence, emphasis mine):
>
> "CLEMS..well, the current batch of H-style (with a top tube) may be the 
> last of these. We sell about 50-50 H’s and L’s. They’re only $1650 because 
> they come assembled to us, but cash flow won’t allow that anymore—or 
> greatly reduced, anyway—so they’ll likely get up to about $1,800 next. 
> Plus, it turns out they cost us $100 more than we thought. It’s not a 
> tariff thing, it’s an import duty thing. There was a change in the rate 
> that may have come when we changed importer, but in any case they say we’re 
> paying the right amount.
> *Although the plan is for no more CLEM H anythings, I can see us getting 
> some 52’s again in a few years. I can’t see any more 59s or 65s. *"
>
> When I read that, the seed was planted (nice, it worked, Grant!).  The 
> twitch got worse the more I thought of it.  NO MORE CLEM H's.  Sheesh.  
> That would be a-shame.  I know loads of you love the L, but that H speaks 
> to me.  I had a Grilver 59 H a while back and sold it because I was trying 
> to make it into something that, for me, it would never be -- something to 
> zoom around really rooty/rocky single track.  I loved how it felt on 
> pavement though; it had that special something that people can't seem to 
> put their finger on.
>
> Anyway, I pulled the trigger again, this time on a dark green 59 H.  Man, 
> I l-o-v-e that green.  The Grilver is very nice, too, but I kinda missed 
> the green of my former SimpleOne, and so decided to change it up.  This 
> particular Clem green has a touch more cream and/or yellow, though, and it 
> really pops in the sunlight.
>
> It's a stock complete build, except for these mod's:
>
>- Bullmoose bar instead of Bosco
>- Brooks Plump Leather grips (honey)
>- Brooks B17 Imperial (honey)
>- G-One Speeds
>- Shimano Saint platform pedals
>- Mark's rack
>- VO Retro Cage, no tab
>- Road Morph pump, seat tube mount
>- Acorn roll bag
>
> [image: Clem_Neuse_3_28Oct2018.jpg]
>
>
> Yes, it's pretty heavy.  But really, the crazy thing about this bike is 
> that it doesn't *feel *heavy when you get on it and "Just Ride".  Once 
> you're up to speed, which is really no effort at all, it really wants to 
> keep going.  It will coast forever.  Yep, I imagine that the G-One's have 
> something to do with it, but still, it feels surprisingly faster than you'd 
> think after lifting it off a bike rack.
>
> You sit *in* this bike, not *on* it.  It is the most stable bike I've 
> ridden.  My Atlantis is close, but gosh -- with the wheelbase of this thing 
> -- it's like it has a gyroscope spinning away inside the HT.
>
> I must say the Bullmoose bar is one bada$$ lookin' bar.  First one I've 
> had, and I love it on this bike.  For those who've always wondered how far 
> the bar ends come back on the Bullmoose, well, they come back about a 3/16" 
> behind the stem bolt.  They tilt ever so slightly up on the grip end, but 
> that angle seems to work for the HT angle of the Clem.  It's also 
> comfortable to put your hands on the fwd portion of the bar and let your 
> thumbs rest just in front of, and inside, of where the Y joins the bar.  
> This provides a more athletic position.  On some uncrowded straight-aways 
> today I hunkered down just to see what ol' Clem would do, and -- with 
> gyroscopic, rock-steady speed -- I was flyin down the path in no time, 
> grinning ear to ear.
>
> The Brooks Plump Leather grips are superbly comfortable. Larger in 
> diameter than most grips, they provide a larger platform to rest your 
> hands, with no digging in.  And, with the slightly rough exposed leather 
> ring edges (to which I applied some proofide), you really get a good hold.  
> They're lock-on's, too.  I had to apply the slightest bit of wd40 to the 
> bar to get them to 

[RBW] Taking Clem to a different level

[Vincent Tamer]

Awesome! Looks like a Hellava good time. I want to do that, but the Clem being 
my only bike (for now) I’ll have to wait. I love my boscos. 

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[RBW] FS Large Saddlesack Tan with Pletcher Rack Plate

[Vincent Tamer]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AWn8Sv1WzHXpAhMs6


I purchased this Large Tan Sack off a member of the Bunch a few months back. It 
is in pretty good condition, only used around 9 times by previous owner. A few 
light brown patches from dirt but not too bad. 

I modified the Sack because I wanted to attach it to my Clem Rack via the quick 
release Rack Plate that can be installed on various objects. I installed the 
plate on the Sack and it fits well. It adds an extra bit of security when 
working with large loads. The plate can be removed but I figured I could keep 
them together in case someone wants to run this setup. I purchased another 
large sack a while back, green just works so much better than the Tan for my 
mustard Clem, so I had to go with that offer. 

Take a look at the pics and see if it is a setup  you want!

I’d be happy to get $200 for this. I paid $210 and the Rack Plate was $35 
(imported from Swissland). Aside from modifying the bag, I only used it on one 
ride in the hills. Message me for more info!

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[RBW] Re: Not so permanent Basket + Rack

[Vincent Tamer]

Hey Justin, what length of Voile straps do you use? It’s a wald 137 you are 
attaching?

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[RBW] Not so permanent Basket + Rack

[Vincent Tamer]

Thanks guys, some really good and secure suggestions here. I think out of all 
of them z locks looks to be the way to go. A ton of uses when they aren’t on 
the rack!

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[RBW] Not so permanent Basket + Rack

[Vincent Tamer]

Anyone got any ideas for a detachable wald setup? I love baskets in the 
practical sense but I think my favorite Riv Bike setup is med Saddle sack in 
back and a track sack up front. It has a classy feel. 

Do you think some kind of strap, either Irish or Voile/ski strap, would make a 
good way of securing a basket for light and even med loads? This way it can be 
removed or installed easily. I’m gonna try it this weekend but I’m curious if 
any one else has. 

I will certainly be careful in light of all this nitto basket rack hubbub

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[RBW] Re: Grant is asking us to not run baskets on Nitto Racks

[Vincent Tamer]

I went to Nitto's Website and found some info on two of their racks:

http://nitto-tokyo.sakura.ne.jp/carrier-E.html

We can see the rack that has caused the uproar, the M12, with the warning. 
The M18 doesn't have this warning. 

I own the M18, it doesn't seem to different than the ones Riv sells. The 
M12 is in a class of it's own since it connects to the Vbrake Bosses, so 
this can definitely be problematic.

I think a safety strap is a good idea for any one of the Nitto Small 
Platform racks, just in case. I am now definitely going to be minding my 
front load and using my Med. Saddle Sack as my go to portage from now on.

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 4:16:51 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Apparently enough crazies are overloading their Wald baskets on Nitto 
> racks, breaking them and suing over it that now Nitto is saying "no 
> baskets".  Rivendell cares what Nitto says, and so Grant posted on the 
> Blahg that we shouldn't run baskets.  There have been other vendors 
> claiming Nitto Racks carry a lot more weight than Nitto themselves claim.  
> Some gullible people think that means that racks from other vendors are 
> 'stronger' than the ones you buy from Rivendell.  The fact is, a failed 
> front rack is a big problem, and conservative recommendations are intended 
> to protect your head, even if that discourages you from buying something:
>
> GRANTS BLAHG 
> 
>
> Be careful out there.  Use your Manny strap.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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[RBW] Grant is asking us to not run baskets on Nitto Racks

[Vincent Tamer]

I have the Nitto m18 on my Clem and it works just fine. There have been only a 
few occasions that I’ve overloaded it but that was on smooth surface riding so 
no biggie. That being said I’m going to be a bit more weight conscious of my 
basket loads from now on. 

I wonder if the Riv staff will be removing their baskets in order to set a good 
example? I can see that being a burden as many of us are quite dependent on the 
basket setup. 

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[RBW] Re: U locks and Pitlocks

[Vincent Tamer]

It's clear that using a combination of locks (u lock and chain) is great 
for a extended lock up, but what about a quick lock up? Say, under 30 
minutes? Do you still do the whole thing, or does anyone just go with a 
smaller lock? 

I'm looking for something for a quick lockup in a decent area. I like the 
idea of a lock that is very easy to deploy. A u lock with cable can take 
some time with Clem's long chain stays.

Any advice?

On Wednesday, June 6, 2018 at 2:13:37 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Hi All, 
>
> Every year I drive across the country from Nevada to Minnesota to spend a 
> month of the summer among family. I've always done it with my bikes on the 
> hitch-mounted rack, secured with a couple of cable locks. I've never had a 
> u lock or pit locks as I live in a low-risk area and ride to low-risk 
> areas, rarely needing to park my bike or leave it out of sight. I'm poor in 
> knowledge of security for bikes, I'm afraid. And with TBBITW (The Best Bike 
> in the World) in tow, I'm fearful about losing it. I've been operating 
> under the belief that Minnesota Nice reigns, but times have changed, I 
> guess!
>
> My sister and brother in law recently moved to Minneapolis, and his bike 
> was stolen from his yard (his fault for forgetting it out there). This is 
> the reason why there's a grilver Clem L arriving at his local bike shop for 
> assembly tomorrow. Today, I got a frantic call from my sister. They have a 
> married pair of doctors (paradox? haha) visiting them from out east, and 
> knowing that MN is prime bike country, they brought their bikes. While 
> visiting the Swedish museum in Duluth, they parked their bikes at the rack 
> in front of the museum entrance and the doctors secured their bikes with 
> cable locks. They were away only briefly, and when they emerged, a museum 
> employee was wheeling away Dan's bike. She had seen that the cable lock was 
> cut, and she was astute enough to realize what must have happened and she 
> was rescuing it. Christine's $1300 brand new bike had already been cut 
> loose and taken. My sister's Birea (sp) was u-locked and thus undisturbed.
>
> You might imagine I have some anxiety over this, as we have lots of bike 
> adventures planned for our stay next month. I've started looking at old 
> threads here, but the Abus u locks mentioned aren't the current ones being 
> sold, or the ones referenced aren't in stock. If someone out there has 
> recently been in the market for a new u-lock, would you mind posting here? 
> If I could lock two bikes together with one u lock, that would be even 
> better. I'll have 4 bikes - a Betz, a Clem H, a Specialized Hotrock at 20 
> inches, and a little Islabike. Do you think I need pit locks for our Brooks 
> saddles? Do I need them for the wheels if we have front and rear racks on 
> the Rivs? How long should the locks be? I've seen mini, but I think that 
> might limit how I can park. I have a huge front basket, so that complicates 
> parking anyway.
>
> I'm most grateful for the wisdom shared here!
>
>

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[RBW] Hammock camping?

[Vincent Tamer]

Has anyone tried running the hammock through the ends of the sleeping bag to 
make a cocoon? This would be a cheaper option to the double quilt setup that is 
so common. 

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[RBW] Re: Hidden Gift of Riding a Bike

[Vincent Tamer]

Carrying Gorp, very good idea! I'm going to start doing this on my rides 
from now on, as I often pass homeless encampments on the secret back trails 
I take home.


Thanks Patrick!

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 2:27:17 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Grant and a few others have mentioned the challenge of helping people who 
> are homeless, who we as bike riders see and encounter more than others 
> because we are in the out of the way places. I encounter it now and again, 
> increasingly in the last two years. Clearly the current answers for 
> addressing the root causes are not working, but that is not the point of 
> this. Helping the immediate need is. 
>
> On today’s ride I saw a man in a sleeping bag under a tree off to the side 
> of the trail. No matter the whys and wherefores, a real person in real 
> need. As he was asleep, I rode on, and kept an eye out for him on my 
> return. Not carrying food or money, and could only offer him water, and he 
> was bone dry, so small as it was it was something. I returned later with a 
> lunch and a coat, but he had moved on. 
>
> I have now started carrying gourp to give out, and extra water, etc. No 
> easy answers, but it is easy to see myself in that position were it not for 
> the love of family helping me so much with my bludgeoned brain and the 
> insurance I am blessed to have (brain injury is a hidden factor in many 
> people who are homeless, often misdiagnosed as mental illness), and is one 
> of the reasons helping is so very challenging — brain injury defies most 
> people’s understanding of what help is needed and is different for every 
> person). 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick 
>
> www.CredoFamily.org 
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org

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[RBW] Wednesday Musings: Are We A Swap Meet?

[Vincent Tamer]

Perhaps a subgroup for sales/buying?

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Re: [RBW] Saddle Sack Med and Leg Strike

[Vincent Tamer]

Yes it looks like they are being discontinued (atleast blue and grey). 

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Re: [RBW] Saddle Sack Med and Leg Strike

[Vincent Tamer]

Toshi, this seems to be the best (cheapest) solution and it looks like it 
works great! I'll be trying this out.


Thanks,


Vincent

On Monday, May 14, 2018 at 2:50:06 PM UTC-7, ttoshi wrote:
>
> If you want to see some pics, just search Acorn bag with standoff.  The 
> only caveat is that you might need to extend the strap that you use to 
> attach the bag to the seat tube.
>
> Toshi
>
>
> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 7:11 AM, Toshi Takeuchi  > wrote:
>
>> One potentially cheap solution is to mount a tube at the back of the seat 
>> post to push the bag back an inch or two.  One iteration of the Acorn bags 
>> used to have a leather tube to do just what I suggested above.
>>
>> Toshi
>>
>>
>> On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Joe Bernard > > wrote:
>>
>>> Longer straps at the saddle plus mounting the front strap to the rack 
>>> instead of seatpost should help. Another solution if you keep the bag on 
>>> the bike all the time is to mount the bottom to the rack with zipties, 
>>> skipping the the saddle mounting altogether. 
>>>
>>> The final (expensive) solution is the Nitto saddle-rail quick-release 
>>> which will hang the bag further back from the saddle. The benefit here is 
>>> it's very easy to pop it off the bike to run into the store. 
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>

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[RBW] Light blue Sam Touch Up

[Vincent Tamer]

For those who are wanting exact match, I work at a automotive paint shop. We 
can match just about anything. However, nail polish is the easiest route. 

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[RBW] Saddle Sack Med and Leg Strike

[Vincent Tamer]

Hello!


I notice the back of my quadracep hits the back of the Medium Saddlesack 
when riding. Any solutions to this, aside from longer straps to make it sit 
farther back?

If I removed the rack it sits on I wouldn't be able to sit it farther back, 
so it seems I can't use it without the rack and not have it hit my legs 
when I pedal.


Thoughts?

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[RBW] Re: Clem-L, Bosco handlebars: where to put the bell?

[Vincent Tamer]

I put mine on the stem, I think it looks cool there :)

On Thursday, May 10, 2018 at 7:02:05 AM UTC-7, Rod Holland wrote:
>
> I've ordered a 45cm Clem-L for my consort, which rumor has it should be 
> delivered one of these first days. This is the stock build with Bosco bars. 
> Question to those with Bosco experience: what's a good place to mount a 
> bell in that style cockpit? This will be a Crane Suzue 
> , so it will be loud if she 
> can reach it... Most of my experience configuring cockpits has been with 
> drops or flat bars, I don't have a good sense of hand positions on Boscos.
>
> Thanks,
>
> rod
>
>
>

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[RBW] WTB- Sackville Saddle Sack Large, Pref Olive

[Vincent Tamer]

Hello! I'm just putting out a signal to see if anyone out there is wanting 
to sell their Large Saddlesack?

Anyone? :)

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa: My first Rivendell

[Vincent Tamer]

Jonathan,

Awesome! It's funny how one wants another Riv right after the first! I 
bought a Clem late 2016 and have been pining for a Sam Hillborne as well! 
Maybe in 5 years for me :)

-Vincent

On Friday, March 16, 2018 at 12:02:35 PM UTC-7, Jonathan wrote:
>
> Today marks 1000 miles on my Appaloosa that I bought last fall, so I 
> thought I'd make a post about it. It is my first Rivendell. I joined this 
> group right around the time I ordered it. 
>
>
> It's primarily my commuter. I ride to work year round in Milwaukee, in all 
> weather. (I put the Appaloosa away for the winter, though, and rode my old 
> beater with the studded tires.) The roads just got cleaned up enough to get 
> it back out last week. I love this bike. It made me a believer in upright 
> riding. It is such a beautiful, comfortable, useful bike. I love it more 
> than any bike I have ever owned. I love it so much that I ended up ordering 
> a new Canti-Sam frameset to be my long distance road bike, and then a 
> couple weeks ago, I also pre-ordered a Clem L for my wife. 
>
> I bought the bike complete, so it's standard Riv-build, plus racks, bags, 
> and fenders. I swapped the bars soon after I got it for the Chocomoose. 
> Most of my miles are on those bars. Right before the snow hit last fall, I 
> tried a set of Bullmoose bars and really liked them, but didn't get many 
> miles in with them. Then, I picked up a set of "bad angle" Boscomoose bars 
> over the winter, and have been riding those for the past week. I think I 
> like them better than the Chocos, but not sure if these or the Bullmoose 
> will win out in the end... 
>
> I'm excited to put a lot more miles on it this year.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Alternative Bars for the Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! Happy Riding!

On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 11:48:10 PM UTC-8, Vincent Tamer wrote:
>
> Hello, I am proud Clem owner! It's truly a great bike for me and I am so 
> glad Riv made an "affordable" bike :D
>
>
> I am curious if anyone has tried a different bar setup on a Clem, 
> specifically an inverted albatross. I am wondering if they are as close to 
> the Boscos in comfort. 
>
> Boscos are super comfy, but aren't the coolest lookin bars. I know that 
> Clem was designed for the Boscos, I don't want to throw a wrench in the 
> design just for aesthetics!
>
>
>
> Here is my Mustard Clem in the Mustard Field:
>
>
>
> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rWPp8qRSwpw/Wpjin1184JI/Mp0/ZDpQkc8ckMEFDhfs33r6gZRs0EdWuIKSACLcBGAs/s1600/Clem%2Bin%2Bthe%2BBush.jpg>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Alternative Bars for the Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Jacob! Your Clem was the one that made me think "Albas are so good 
looking"! You've got a nice color scheme that you've maintained as well! I 
saw your bike on IG and loved it.

Glad to know the option is there should I swap bars, I've been with the 
Boscos since late 2015 and really cannot complain so I'm gonna stick with 
them for now.


I'm also wondering about your tires, do you ever take them on trails? Any 
issues with the close clearance with the fenders?



Thanks!

On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 5:19:14 AM UTC-8, Jacob wrote:
>
> Vincent-
>
> Congratulations on the Clem!  I have "flipped" Albatross on mine and they 
> work great.  I went from the 55 Boscos to the 55 'Tross (can we call them 
> that now to avoid confusion?) so the width wasn't an issue. However, my 
> main goal was get the position next to the stem higher than the ends to 
> relieve tuck when moving forward. They are comfortable, but you'll need to 
> get that stem way up there if you want to keep your flares around saddle 
> height. Might negate the "cool".
> Here's the link to my post if you want photographic evidence: 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/nyc/rbw-owners-bunch/-m-oQxuUh80/ny6IPWX0AAAJ
>
> The Bosco is still the most versatile bar when it comes down to it. If 
> you're riding where it looks like your riding, I'd stick with them.  If 
> you've just gotta try something else, then the Choco would be a great 
> contender as Coal Bee mentioned. Not trying to push you away from the 
> 'Tross, but keep those Boscos around just in case...
>
> Let us know what you come up with. Happy riding!
> -Jacob
>

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[RBW] Re: Alternative Bars for the Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Some very good points Deacon! Hahah. Cool is in the heart :D

I think I'm going to hang on to the Boscos, It does feel like it's part of 
the spirit of the Clem.


Thanks!

On Friday, March 2, 2018 at 4:01:05 AM UTC-8, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Hello Vincent, 
>
> Great Clem! It’s right at home on the storm-kissed rolling hills. Of corse 
> you realize the rack and basket, the long stays, and oh so much more are 
> utterly uncool too right? Grin. 
>
> I don’t know cool from hot or not when it comes to trends, but if the 
> Boscos are comfortable and working, it’s maybe time to redefine cool? Ask 
> yourself, “Why do I ride?” Whatever your answer, I’m betting “to be a slave 
> to the whims and notions and percieved perceptions of others” isn’t on the 
> list. Grin. The best cool in the world is the one that doesn’t care its 
> cool. Grin. 
>
> A few folks invert Albatross bars, but they weren’t designed to be either 
> up or down, which means the curves aren’t very comfortable. For that, 
> you’ll want an Albastache (new moustache) bar, but that is a road diameter 
> bar which means a change in brakes and stem and a lot more reach for you 
> vs. the Boscos. Anything short of frequent go-fast club rides and racing 
> and the Boscos are brilliant for you. They offer a lot of hand positions, 
> from upright to tuck and crank up a hill in a headwind, and lots inbetween. 
> My advice is to practice contentment with those, learn them well, and 
> should you want to change bars after a year, you’ll know a lot more about 
> what works and doesn’t for you. 
>
> Whyever you ride, ride with abandon! 
>
> With abandon, 
> Patrick

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[RBW] Alternative Bars for the Clem

[Vincent Tamer]

Hello, I am proud Clem owner! It's truly a great bike for me and I am so 
glad Riv made an "affordable" bike :D


I am curious if anyone has tried a different bar setup on a Clem, 
specifically an inverted albatross. I am wondering if they are as close to 
the Boscos in comfort. 

Boscos are super comfy, but aren't the coolest lookin bars. I know that 
Clem was designed for the Boscos, I don't want to throw a wrench in the 
design just for aesthetics!



Here is my Mustard Clem in the Mustard Field:




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