Re: [RBW] Cargo e-bikes are an amazing concept, but the options are imperfect

[John McBurney]

Look around here. There is a pretty sophisticated cargo e bike scene in
Portland and these guys are real pros.

https://www.splendidcycles.com


John

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:26 PM Kolby  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Looking for some help/feedback on the topic of cargo e-bikes -- not
> specifically whether they are a good idea or not, but about specific
> designs currently out there and what I should be looking for. Here's the
> background:
>
> I'm soon moving from Brooklyn to Austin, and as I'll need a second car I
> figured I might finally get that cargo bike I've always wanted instead. I
> have two younger kids and will likely have a commute of 15ish miles daily.
>
> As soon as I started looking around, I quickly realized that Bosch motors
> are taking over the Cargo category. Even though I'd never ridden an e-bike,
> this made sense to me. I mean, it's kinda fun hauling my kid, my gear, and
> myself up hills on my Atlantis, but sometimes it's just joyless drudgery
> and I'd rather be driving. So the ebike was interesting. (Several test
> rides later and I think it's probably the best hope of getting most people
> out of cars and onto bikes, but that's another topic! :))
>
> So I started looking at the options. It just so happens that Surly released
> a cargo e-bike this month : The
> Big Easy, which carries 400 pounds and goes 20 mph.
>
> My LBS had a Big Easy for test rides, so I took it out. After 30 mins I
> was having so much fun I called to say I need another 30 mins at least. I
> went all over my neighborhood, and on "trails" in Prospect Park. I put an
> adult friend on the back and we easily cruised up a hill at 15 mph. It was
> a total blast, and it had a great ride and feel in all situations--it felt
> like one of my own. It was kind of a bone shaker, but softer tires with
> less air would fix that, I figured.
>
> Then I started looking closer at the Surly, and I disappointment set in:
> the kickstand isn't a double (really!?), it uses quick releases instead of
> thru axles on a bike that hauls 400 pounds (this seems unwise, right?), and
> the extra battery is under the bottom bracket for some reason. Even more
> annoying, Surly, true to the name, doesn't make it easy to add a kid seat
> or lights. That would be understandable if it were cheaper, but it's $5k --
> the same price as the Xtracycle eswoop and the Tern CSD, both of which come
> with lights, fenders, etc and assume you'll likely be adding a kid seat or
> something else like that.
>
> Annoyed, I took the Tern and Xtracycle out for rides, but ... both had a
> terrible ride quality IMO. I wouldn't enjoy either on a daily or even semi
> regular basis. Mostly it's due to the fact that they only come in one size,
> which of course just doesn't work. (The Surly comes in S, M, L.)
>
> Lastly, I took a look out a Riese and Muller (front bucket style).
> Specifically, the Load and Packster models. They are quite expensive
> ($7k+), however they're available used for about the price of the Surly and
> others. They have suspension and the ride is both unfamiliar but also very
> stable and buttery smooth. The downside of the Riese seems to be all the
> moving parts that make the magic happen, or so it seems to me -- more
> potential points of failure. And it also comes in just one size, which also
> feels too small. But overall I liked it and could ride it for hours a day
> happily, I think.
>
> (Note: the size and kinds of cargo that can be carried by the Surly and
> the Riese & Muller really is different, but in my case both satisfy my
> needs sufficiently that this isn't a factor for my decision.)
>
> So, RBW peeps, I realize that Cargo e-bikes are very UN-Riv, however, I
> trust there are some open minded folks out there with good input or ideas
> on how to proceed. None of these options are ideal -- far from it. But last
> I checked Grant has no plans for a cargo e-bike, so I'm stuck with either
> the lazy and unhelpful Surly, which requires a lot of mods but seems the
> best platform; or the front loading Riese and Muller, which seems amazing
> but is so different than anything I know or have had that it makes me
> uncomfortable.
>
> Thanks for any help
> Kolby
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Cargo e-bikes are an amazing concept, but the options are imperfect

[Edwin W]

One more to consider: the Workcycles fr8 V8. I have had all non electric 
assists: Yuba mundo, bakfiets and fr8 so can only speak to the bike design. I 
think the fr8 is the most bike like and most likely to be ridden without a big 
load like 1-3 kids. It is a nice one to have as the kids grow out of riding 
with you (though my 12 year old will still catch a ride on it). 
But since you are talking long distances and hot weather etc.. an assist makes 
sense and so think of the V8 version. German motor (not Bosch but workcyckes 
only uses really good parts) and lights, fenders etc. are included. Great add 
ons like racks (get a front and rear) and child seat in between you and the 
handlebars: the favorite spot for all of my kids and the best handling. 
Now, a rest ride for a week makes so much sense and you might not be able to do 
that, which is a huge drawback. 

Let us know what you get,

Edwin

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Re: [RBW] Cargo e-bikes are an amazing concept, but the options are imperfect

[Eric Daume]

My experience for Surlys is that they are a platform for customizing,
moreso than any other bike I've had. So don't expect the stock spec to work
100%, but the base is good and very adaptable.

Eric
down to just one Surly at the moment

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:26 PM Kolby  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Looking for some help/feedback on the topic of cargo e-bikes -- not
> specifically whether they are a good idea or not, but about specific
> designs currently out there and what I should be looking for. Here's the
> background:
>
> I'm soon moving from Brooklyn to Austin, and as I'll need a second car I
> figured I might finally get that cargo bike I've always wanted instead. I
> have two younger kids and will likely have a commute of 15ish miles daily.
>
> As soon as I started looking around, I quickly realized that Bosch motors
> are taking over the Cargo category. Even though I'd never ridden an e-bike,
> this made sense to me. I mean, it's kinda fun hauling my kid, my gear, and
> myself up hills on my Atlantis, but sometimes it's just joyless drudgery
> and I'd rather be driving. So the ebike was interesting. (Several test
> rides later and I think it's probably the best hope of getting most people
> out of cars and onto bikes, but that's another topic! :))
>
> So I started looking at the options. It just so happens that Surly released
> a cargo e-bike this month : The
> Big Easy, which carries 400 pounds and goes 20 mph.
>
> My LBS had a Big Easy for test rides, so I took it out. After 30 mins I
> was having so much fun I called to say I need another 30 mins at least. I
> went all over my neighborhood, and on "trails" in Prospect Park. I put an
> adult friend on the back and we easily cruised up a hill at 15 mph. It was
> a total blast, and it had a great ride and feel in all situations--it felt
> like one of my own. It was kind of a bone shaker, but softer tires with
> less air would fix that, I figured.
>
> Then I started looking closer at the Surly, and I disappointment set in:
> the kickstand isn't a double (really!?), it uses quick releases instead of
> thru axles on a bike that hauls 400 pounds (this seems unwise, right?), and
> the extra battery is under the bottom bracket for some reason. Even more
> annoying, Surly, true to the name, doesn't make it easy to add a kid seat
> or lights. That would be understandable if it were cheaper, but it's $5k --
> the same price as the Xtracycle eswoop and the Tern CSD, both of which come
> with lights, fenders, etc and assume you'll likely be adding a kid seat or
> something else like that.
>
> Annoyed, I took the Tern and Xtracycle out for rides, but ... both had a
> terrible ride quality IMO. I wouldn't enjoy either on a daily or even semi
> regular basis. Mostly it's due to the fact that they only come in one size,
> which of course just doesn't work. (The Surly comes in S, M, L.)
>
> Lastly, I took a look out a Riese and Muller (front bucket style).
> Specifically, the Load and Packster models. They are quite expensive
> ($7k+), however they're available used for about the price of the Surly and
> others. They have suspension and the ride is both unfamiliar but also very
> stable and buttery smooth. The downside of the Riese seems to be all the
> moving parts that make the magic happen, or so it seems to me -- more
> potential points of failure. And it also comes in just one size, which also
> feels too small. But overall I liked it and could ride it for hours a day
> happily, I think.
>
> (Note: the size and kinds of cargo that can be carried by the Surly and
> the Riese & Muller really is different, but in my case both satisfy my
> needs sufficiently that this isn't a factor for my decision.)
>
> So, RBW peeps, I realize that Cargo e-bikes are very UN-Riv, however, I
> trust there are some open minded folks out there with good input or ideas
> on how to proceed. None of these options are ideal -- far from it. But last
> I checked Grant has no plans for a cargo e-bike, so I'm stuck with either
> the lazy and unhelpful Surly, which requires a lot of mods but seems the
> best platform; or the front loading Riese and Muller, which seems amazing
> but is so different than anything I know or have had that it makes me
> uncomfortable.
>
> Thanks for any help
> Kolby
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: [RBW] Cargo e-bikes are an amazing concept, but the options are imperfect

[Matt]

Mine's a vote for the bakfiets-style cargo bike:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/xENfGHN8LJikNpVx5

I've had my VanAndel/Workcycles for ten years now and I love:

- that the kids and the load is up front
- that it feels like riding on a rail

Chatting with the kids and watching things go by is so much nicer with them 
up front, you never have to turn around. It makes a huge difference. I love 
the way it handles, too, both loaded and unloaded. It's not as nimble as a 
long tail, but each style has its advantages. Really just depends on what 
your priorities are. I can't speak to any other model but the Workcycles 
one is absolutely bomb proof. Mine's ten years old—it spent two years 
outside—and I've had it tuned up exactly once a few years back and it still 
rides like new.

I got mine before the dawn of the Bosch, but I did have a chance to test 
ride the same model with electric assist and my (much older) kids in it 
recently when a shop near by was closing. All I can say is I sure wish I'd 
had that assist back in the day. The bike is 100 lbs unloaded, so add kids 
and groceries and you're putting in some WORK. But you know what? It's not 
a badge of honor. I would have taken them to many more places if I could 
have gotten there more quickly and not absolutely drenched in sweat. 

I love my regular bikes but for commuting and cargo? Give me that assist 
any day of the week. I can still ride and I can replace a car.




On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 7:34:05 PM UTC-7, David Bivins wrote:
>
> I don't know if this helps, but I bought the Tern/Xtracycle Cargo Node 
> via Kickstarter in 2016, and it's great. I love it, and my 8, then 9, 
> then 10-year-old passenger on the back loves it, too. It is not 
> electric, but it has a dyno-hub and front and back lights. So if you 
> find something in that geometry but with a battery, check it out. We 
> love it. It has quick releases, but you can change that easily. 
>
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:26 PM Kolby > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Hi all, 
> > 
> > Looking for some help/feedback on the topic of cargo e-bikes -- not 
> specifically whether they are a good idea or not, but about specific 
> designs currently out there and what I should be looking for. Here's the 
> background: 
> > 
> > I'm soon moving from Brooklyn to Austin, and as I'll need a second car I 
> figured I might finally get that cargo bike I've always wanted instead. I 
> have two younger kids and will likely have a commute of 15ish miles daily. 
> > 
> > As soon as I started looking around, I quickly realized that Bosch 
> motors are taking over the Cargo category. Even though I'd never ridden an 
> e-bike, this made sense to me. I mean, it's kinda fun hauling my kid, my 
> gear, and myself up hills on my Atlantis, but sometimes it's just joyless 
> drudgery and I'd rather be driving. So the ebike was interesting. (Several 
> test rides later and I think it's probably the best hope of getting most 
> people out of cars and onto bikes, but that's another topic! :)) 
> > 
> > So I started looking at the options. It just so happens that Surly 
> released a cargo e-bike this month: The Big Easy, which carries 400 pounds 
> and goes 20 mph. 
> > 
> > My LBS had a Big Easy for test rides, so I took it out. After 30 mins I 
> was having so much fun I called to say I need another 30 mins at least. I 
> went all over my neighborhood, and on "trails" in Prospect Park. I put an 
> adult friend on the back and we easily cruised up a hill at 15 mph. It was 
> a total blast, and it had a great ride and feel in all situations--it felt 
> like one of my own. It was kind of a bone shaker, but softer tires with 
> less air would fix that, I figured. 
> > 
> > Then I started looking closer at the Surly, and I disappointment set in: 
> the kickstand isn't a double (really!?), it uses quick releases instead of 
> thru axles on a bike that hauls 400 pounds (this seems unwise, right?), and 
> the extra battery is under the bottom bracket for some reason. Even more 
> annoying, Surly, true to the name, doesn't make it easy to add a kid seat 
> or lights. That would be understandable if it were cheaper, but it's $5k -- 
> the same price as the Xtracycle eswoop and the Tern CSD, both of which come 
> with lights, fenders, etc and assume you'll likely be adding a kid seat or 
> something else like that. 
> > 
> > Annoyed, I took the Tern and Xtracycle out for rides, but ... both had a 
> terrible ride quality IMO. I wouldn't enjoy either on a daily or even semi 
> regular basis. Mostly it's due to the fact that they only come in one size, 
> which of course just doesn't work. (The Surly comes in S, M, L.) 
> > 
> > Lastly, I took a look out a Riese and Muller (front bucket style). 
> Specifically, the Load and Packster models. They are quite expensive 
> ($7k+), however they're available used for about the price of the Surly and 
> others. They have suspension and the ride is both unfamiliar but also very 
> stable and buttery smo

Re: [RBW] Cargo e-bikes are an amazing concept, but the options are imperfect

[David Bivins]

I don't know if this helps, but I bought the Tern/Xtracycle Cargo Node
via Kickstarter in 2016, and it's great. I love it, and my 8, then 9,
then 10-year-old passenger on the back loves it, too. It is not
electric, but it has a dyno-hub and front and back lights. So if you
find something in that geometry but with a battery, check it out. We
love it. It has quick releases, but you can change that easily.

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 10:26 PM Kolby  wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Looking for some help/feedback on the topic of cargo e-bikes -- not 
> specifically whether they are a good idea or not, but about specific designs 
> currently out there and what I should be looking for. Here's the background:
>
> I'm soon moving from Brooklyn to Austin, and as I'll need a second car I 
> figured I might finally get that cargo bike I've always wanted instead. I 
> have two younger kids and will likely have a commute of 15ish miles daily.
>
> As soon as I started looking around, I quickly realized that Bosch motors are 
> taking over the Cargo category. Even though I'd never ridden an e-bike, this 
> made sense to me. I mean, it's kinda fun hauling my kid, my gear, and myself 
> up hills on my Atlantis, but sometimes it's just joyless drudgery and I'd 
> rather be driving. So the ebike was interesting. (Several test rides later 
> and I think it's probably the best hope of getting most people out of cars 
> and onto bikes, but that's another topic! :))
>
> So I started looking at the options. It just so happens that Surly released a 
> cargo e-bike this month: The Big Easy, which carries 400 pounds and goes 20 
> mph.
>
> My LBS had a Big Easy for test rides, so I took it out. After 30 mins I was 
> having so much fun I called to say I need another 30 mins at least. I went 
> all over my neighborhood, and on "trails" in Prospect Park. I put an adult 
> friend on the back and we easily cruised up a hill at 15 mph. It was a total 
> blast, and it had a great ride and feel in all situations--it felt like one 
> of my own. It was kind of a bone shaker, but softer tires with less air would 
> fix that, I figured.
>
> Then I started looking closer at the Surly, and I disappointment set in: the 
> kickstand isn't a double (really!?), it uses quick releases instead of thru 
> axles on a bike that hauls 400 pounds (this seems unwise, right?), and the 
> extra battery is under the bottom bracket for some reason. Even more 
> annoying, Surly, true to the name, doesn't make it easy to add a kid seat or 
> lights. That would be understandable if it were cheaper, but it's $5k -- the 
> same price as the Xtracycle eswoop and the Tern CSD, both of which come with 
> lights, fenders, etc and assume you'll likely be adding a kid seat or 
> something else like that.
>
> Annoyed, I took the Tern and Xtracycle out for rides, but ... both had a 
> terrible ride quality IMO. I wouldn't enjoy either on a daily or even semi 
> regular basis. Mostly it's due to the fact that they only come in one size, 
> which of course just doesn't work. (The Surly comes in S, M, L.)
>
> Lastly, I took a look out a Riese and Muller (front bucket style). 
> Specifically, the Load and Packster models. They are quite expensive ($7k+), 
> however they're available used for about the price of the Surly and others. 
> They have suspension and the ride is both unfamiliar but also very stable and 
> buttery smooth. The downside of the Riese seems to be all the moving parts 
> that make the magic happen, or so it seems to me -- more potential points of 
> failure. And it also comes in just one size, which also feels too small. But 
> overall I liked it and could ride it for hours a day happily, I think.
>
> (Note: the size and kinds of cargo that can be carried by the Surly and the 
> Riese & Muller really is different, but in my case both satisfy my needs 
> sufficiently that this isn't a factor for my decision.)
>
> So, RBW peeps, I realize that Cargo e-bikes are very UN-Riv, however, I trust 
> there are some open minded folks out there with good input or ideas on how to 
> proceed. None of these options are ideal -- far from it. But last I checked 
> Grant has no plans for a cargo e-bike, so I'm stuck with either the lazy and 
> unhelpful Surly, which requires a lot of mods but seems the best platform; or 
> the front loading Riese and Muller, which seems amazing but is so different 
> than anything I know or have had that it makes me uncomfortable.
>
> Thanks for any help
> Kolby
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Cargo e-bikes are an amazing concept, but the options are imperfect

[Kolby]

Hi all, 

Looking for some help/feedback on the topic of cargo e-bikes -- not 
specifically whether they are a good idea or not, but about specific 
designs currently out there and what I should be looking for. Here's the 
background:

I'm soon moving from Brooklyn to Austin, and as I'll need a second car I 
figured I might finally get that cargo bike I've always wanted instead. I 
have two younger kids and will likely have a commute of 15ish miles daily. 

As soon as I started looking around, I quickly realized that Bosch motors 
are taking over the Cargo category. Even though I'd never ridden an e-bike, 
this made sense to me. I mean, it's kinda fun hauling my kid, my gear, and 
myself up hills on my Atlantis, but sometimes it's just joyless drudgery 
and I'd rather be driving. So the ebike was interesting. (Several test 
rides later and I think it's probably the best hope of getting most people 
out of cars and onto bikes, but that's another topic! :))

So I started looking at the options. It just so happens that Surly released 
a cargo e-bike this month : The Big 
Easy, which carries 400 pounds and goes 20 mph.

My LBS had a Big Easy for test rides, so I took it out. After 30 mins I was 
having so much fun I called to say I need another 30 mins at least. I went 
all over my neighborhood, and on "trails" in Prospect Park. I put an adult 
friend on the back and we easily cruised up a hill at 15 mph. It was a 
total blast, and it had a great ride and feel in all situations--it felt 
like one of my own. It was kind of a bone shaker, but softer tires with 
less air would fix that, I figured.

Then I started looking closer at the Surly, and I disappointment set in: 
the kickstand isn't a double (really!?), it uses quick releases instead of 
thru axles on a bike that hauls 400 pounds (this seems unwise, right?), and 
the extra battery is under the bottom bracket for some reason. Even more 
annoying, Surly, true to the name, doesn't make it easy to add a kid seat 
or lights. That would be understandable if it were cheaper, but it's $5k -- 
the same price as the Xtracycle eswoop and the Tern CSD, both of which come 
with lights, fenders, etc and assume you'll likely be adding a kid seat or 
something else like that. 

Annoyed, I took the Tern and Xtracycle out for rides, but ... both had a 
terrible ride quality IMO. I wouldn't enjoy either on a daily or even semi 
regular basis. Mostly it's due to the fact that they only come in one size, 
which of course just doesn't work. (The Surly comes in S, M, L.)

Lastly, I took a look out a Riese and Muller (front bucket style). 
Specifically, the Load and Packster models. They are quite expensive 
($7k+), however they're available used for about the price of the Surly and 
others. They have suspension and the ride is both unfamiliar but also very 
stable and buttery smooth. The downside of the Riese seems to be all the 
moving parts that make the magic happen, or so it seems to me -- more 
potential points of failure. And it also comes in just one size, which also 
feels too small. But overall I liked it and could ride it for hours a day 
happily, I think. 

(Note: the size and kinds of cargo that can be carried by the Surly and the 
Riese & Muller really is different, but in my case both satisfy my needs 
sufficiently that this isn't a factor for my decision.) 

So, RBW peeps, I realize that Cargo e-bikes are very UN-Riv, however, I 
trust there are some open minded folks out there with good input or ideas 
on how to proceed. None of these options are ideal -- far from it. But last 
I checked Grant has no plans for a cargo e-bike, so I'm stuck with either 
the lazy and unhelpful Surly, which requires a lot of mods but seems the 
best platform; or the front loading Riese and Muller, which seems amazing 
but is so different than anything I know or have had that it makes me 
uncomfortable. 

Thanks for any help
Kolby

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