Re: [RBW] Legolas Mystique: If Riv offered a limited time only, prepaid Legolas run, would you buy one?

[Brian Campbell]

Mark Nobilette built/builds the Legolas frame set. It is Riv's design and 
he uses a mix of Columbus Life and Zona tubes.


On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 10:49:56 PM UTC-5, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Aeroperf:
>
> Interesting thread, and I’m not sure where I fall on this one. 
>
> For instance, I could buy a frame from a known builder (Weigle, Sachs, 
> etc.) and pay for having a bike produced by a singular craftsman. In this 
> scenario, you’re paying in part for the knowledge that a person—Weigle, 
> Sachs, etc.—made that particular bike. The frame is thus more than the sum 
> of its parts. Buying the same tubing, lugs, etc., and using the same 
> geometry but having Joe Smith build it (assuming Joe is a skilled 
> framebuilder) and you’re getting a nice bike, but it’s not a Sachs, for 
> instance. 
>
> On to the Legolas, which is more or less a production bike from Rivendell. 
> I admit I don’t know enough about the Legolas to know if a certain builder 
> was responsible for them, but my impression is that the frame’s 
> “Legolas-ness” is more the result of the materials and geometry than who 
> built it.
>
> For a similar scenario, look to the “Rene Herse” bikes being built by 
> Compass Cycles/Jan Heine. Jan bought the rights to make Rene Herses, and 
> they are very nice bikes that carry on the marque’s tradition. But … if I 
> were spending my money on one, I would look for a classic frame that 
> actually came from the Herse shop.
>
> So … if you copied a Legolas, what would it be? A nice bike. 
>
> P.S. I’ve only ever seen one Legolas in the wild, in Marin County, and it 
> was indeed very pretty.
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyo...@me.com 
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Jan 18, 2020, at 7:05 PM, aeroperf > 
> wrote:
>
>
> Joe made a good point - my comment was a bit obscure.
>
> Let me ask the question a different way.  I believe (correct me if wrong) 
> that Rivendell isn’t making Legolas decals any more because of reasons 
> (maybe copyright)?
> But you CAN get a custom with the exact same geometry, and paint job?  If 
> you did, would it still have the “Legolas Mystique”?
>
> So if there were a limited run (i.e. less pricey than a $4000 custom), 
> with Legolas geometry but that had to be called something else, say, the 
> Black Arrow, would it still have the mystique?
> Because this is what I thought Tom was going for in the thread.
>
> I posted the Temple Cycles to show that there are other beautiful 
> fully-lugged bikes out there.
> So other than collector’s value of a versatile, beautiful bike that is no 
> longer in production, what is the thing with the Legolas?
> Or is that the thing?
>
>
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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[RBW] Legolas Mystique: If Riv offered a limited time only, prepaid Legolas run, would you buy one?

[tc]

Thinking out loud here, I propose that if Riv continued to offer these 5 
frames, *some* of their financial worries would be diminished. Accepting the 
fact that I’ve enjoyed 2 glasses of Frank Family 2016 Lewis Vineyard Chardonnay:
1.  Original Atlantis geo
2.  Hunq
3.  Legolas
4.  Rodeo
5.  Sam. Who on earth, who’s been right-sized, does not love this bike??  
Lordy, it is so wonderfully versatile.. Canti, likely would win. OK.  But 
sidepull is just as awesome!

I don’t care if the former Legolas is renamed. How silly to abandon an 
apparently bucket list design because of a copyright or trademark name issue.   
That’s why I’m wondering what my original post asked ... what’s the big deal?  
If it’s a great design, why not continue to offer it?

Wife says it’s late. Thanks for your thoughts. 

Tom

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Re: [RBW] Legolas Mystique: If Riv offered a limited time only, prepaid Legolas run, would you buy one?

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Aeroperf:

Interesting thread, and I’m not sure where I fall on this one. 

For instance, I could buy a frame from a known builder (Weigle, Sachs, etc.) 
and pay for having a bike produced by a singular craftsman. In this scenario, 
you’re paying in part for the knowledge that a person—Weigle, Sachs, etc.—made 
that particular bike. The frame is thus more than the sum of its parts. Buying 
the same tubing, lugs, etc., and using the same geometry but having Joe Smith 
build it (assuming Joe is a skilled framebuilder) and you’re getting a nice 
bike, but it’s not a Sachs, for instance. 

On to the Legolas, which is more or less a production bike from Rivendell. I 
admit I don’t know enough about the Legolas to know if a certain builder was 
responsible for them, but my impression is that the frame’s “Legolas-ness” is 
more the result of the materials and geometry than who built it.

For a similar scenario, look to the “Rene Herse” bikes being built by Compass 
Cycles/Jan Heine. Jan bought the rights to make Rene Herses, and they are very 
nice bikes that carry on the marque’s tradition. But … if I were spending my 
money on one, I would look for a classic frame that actually came from the 
Herse shop.

So … if you copied a Legolas, what would it be? A nice bike. 

P.S. I’ve only ever seen one Legolas in the wild, in Marin County, and it was 
indeed very pretty.

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Jan 18, 2020, at 7:05 PM, aeroperf  wrote:
> 
> 
> Joe made a good point - my comment was a bit obscure.
> 
> Let me ask the question a different way.  I believe (correct me if wrong) 
> that Rivendell isn’t making Legolas decals any more because of reasons (maybe 
> copyright)?
> But you CAN get a custom with the exact same geometry, and paint job?  If you 
> did, would it still have the “Legolas Mystique”?
> 
> So if there were a limited run (i.e. less pricey than a $4000 custom), with 
> Legolas geometry but that had to be called something else, say, the Black 
> Arrow, would it still have the mystique?
> Because this is what I thought Tom was going for in the thread.
> 
> I posted the Temple Cycles to show that there are other beautiful 
> fully-lugged bikes out there.
> So other than collector’s value of a versatile, beautiful bike that is no 
> longer in production, what is the thing with the Legolas?
> Or is that the thing?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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> .
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>  
> .

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[RBW] Legolas Mystique: If Riv offered a limited time only, prepaid Legolas run, would you buy one?

[Philip Williamson]

Cross bikes are racing bikes. So most other Riv bikes would be better at more 
things than the Legolas, but the Legolas would be better at racing cross than 
most other Riv bikes. 

The Legolas is a grail bike, in my opinion, because they’re just so beautiful, 
especially in the larger sizes. Good lugs, pretty colors, graceful spare form, 
and excellent graphics. The name is probably top three in the Riv pantheon. 

My 45 cents, Philip
Santa Rosa, CA 

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[RBW] Legolas Mystique: If Riv offered a limited time only, prepaid Legolas run, would you buy one?

[Joe Bernard]

Thin tubes, higher BB, a name they might have decals for but can't officially 
provide (in fact I think they're not allowed to produce new decals). So it's a 
specific race bike at a custom price, which means why not just get a custom 
with "Rivendell" on the downtube? 

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[RBW] Legolas Mystique: If Riv offered a limited time only, prepaid Legolas run, would you buy one?

[tc]

What's the big deal?  I have never ridden one of these unicorns, but wow, 
they seem to be more popular than Rodeo.  So, I'm really intrigued.  Is it 
simply that you can't get them any longer (or only by special order at 
custom prices) -- so it's appealing because you can't easily get one?  
Could someone explain the use and appeal of these things?

>From what I've been able to piece together, they are supreme cross bikes.  
So, they're good at a lot of things.  Kinda like the Kona Jake when it came 
out.  

Tom

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