Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Andrew Turner]

There's the rub, no you cannot, unless you're feeling extra crafty. 

On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 12:08:00 PM UTC-5 Tirebiter ATX wrote:

> Watching ronsbikes video was a hoot.  Clever end run on racks.  But, you 
> can’t remove the sack without dismantling, no?
>
> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:37 AM Andrew Turner  
> wrote:
>
>> While this is also pretty expensive for what it is, it's still cheaper 
>> than a rack, or you could DIY something similar for a few bucks less. 
>> https://ronsbikes.com/products/not-a-rack 
>>
>> I'm using one now on a Carradice Camper Long Flap that I modded with 3 
>> leather, essentially, belt loops to the bottom for the horizontal rod to 
>> run through. Works great! 
>>
>> - Andrew
>>
>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 11:56:46 PM UTC-5 Hetchins52 wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick, and all,
>>> The Rivendell designs don't really have any stiffness to the front of 
>>> the bag (closest to the seat post and SQR) so their bags will collapse 
>>> around the SQR rack. I took my Homer out to RBWHQ in late 2018 to try out a 
>>> BaggaBond (and HappiSack) to see what the additional height of the SQR 
>>> system would do. It works, but not optimally.
>>> We also tried hoisting the BBond up with the string to the bottom loops 
>>> of the daisy chain trick. My saddle to tire distance is too small. And, I 
>>> don't use anything bigger than the old Medium SaddleSack, now.
>>> See attached photos.
>>>
>>> David Lipsky
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 4:41:46 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:

 More about the Carradice SQR system: I works well to hold regular (and 
 not just the purpose-designed Super C Slim) transverse saddlebags higher 
 than the rear of the saddle (tho' your have to be aware that you'll need 
 to 
 lift your leg higher when you swing it over the saddle, in case that is a 
 problem). I'd guess you get up to 3" of additional lift over the tire 
 compared to strapping it to Brooks slots -- note of course that the 
 bag-holding device is far more vertical than that built in to the Super C 
 Slim. I've used it with the Camper and the Nelson and the Junior to hold 
 the top of the bag above the rear of the saddle. However, I'm not sure if 
 it works well with the flatter, more horizontal Rivendell design. Perhaps 
 others can address this?

>>> -- 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Lyman Labry]

Watching ronsbikes video was a hoot.  Clever end run on racks.  But, you
can’t remove the sack without dismantling, no?

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 8:37 AM Andrew Turner 
wrote:

> While this is also pretty expensive for what it is, it's still cheaper
> than a rack, or you could DIY something similar for a few bucks less.
> https://ronsbikes.com/products/not-a-rack
>
> I'm using one now on a Carradice Camper Long Flap that I modded with 3
> leather, essentially, belt loops to the bottom for the horizontal rod to
> run through. Works great!
>
> - Andrew
>
> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 11:56:46 PM UTC-5 Hetchins52 wrote:
>
>> Patrick, and all,
>> The Rivendell designs don't really have any stiffness to the front of the
>> bag (closest to the seat post and SQR) so their bags will collapse around
>> the SQR rack. I took my Homer out to RBWHQ in late 2018 to try out a
>> BaggaBond (and HappiSack) to see what the additional height of the SQR
>> system would do. It works, but not optimally.
>> We also tried hoisting the BBond up with the string to the bottom loops
>> of the daisy chain trick. My saddle to tire distance is too small. And, I
>> don't use anything bigger than the old Medium SaddleSack, now.
>> See attached photos.
>>
>> David Lipsky
>>
>>
>> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 4:41:46 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> More about the Carradice SQR system: I works well to hold regular (and
>>> not just the purpose-designed Super C Slim) transverse saddlebags higher
>>> than the rear of the saddle (tho' your have to be aware that you'll need to
>>> lift your leg higher when you swing it over the saddle, in case that is a
>>> problem). I'd guess you get up to 3" of additional lift over the tire
>>> compared to strapping it to Brooks slots -- note of course that the
>>> bag-holding device is far more vertical than that built in to the Super C
>>> Slim. I've used it with the Camper and the Nelson and the Junior to hold
>>> the top of the bag above the rear of the saddle. However, I'm not sure if
>>> it works well with the flatter, more horizontal Rivendell design. Perhaps
>>> others can address this?
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Andrew Turner]

While this is also pretty expensive for what it is, it's still cheaper than 
a rack, or you could DIY something similar for a few bucks less. 
https://ronsbikes.com/products/not-a-rack 

I'm using one now on a Carradice Camper Long Flap that I modded with 3 
leather, essentially, belt loops to the bottom for the horizontal rod to 
run through. Works great! 

- Andrew

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 11:56:46 PM UTC-5 Hetchins52 wrote:

> Patrick, and all,
> The Rivendell designs don't really have any stiffness to the front of the 
> bag (closest to the seat post and SQR) so their bags will collapse around 
> the SQR rack. I took my Homer out to RBWHQ in late 2018 to try out a 
> BaggaBond (and HappiSack) to see what the additional height of the SQR 
> system would do. It works, but not optimally.
> We also tried hoisting the BBond up with the string to the bottom loops of 
> the daisy chain trick. My saddle to tire distance is too small. And, I 
> don't use anything bigger than the old Medium SaddleSack, now.
> See attached photos.
>
> David Lipsky
>
>
> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 4:41:46 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> More about the Carradice SQR system: I works well to hold regular (and 
>> not just the purpose-designed Super C Slim) transverse saddlebags higher 
>> than the rear of the saddle (tho' your have to be aware that you'll need to 
>> lift your leg higher when you swing it over the saddle, in case that is a 
>> problem). I'd guess you get up to 3" of additional lift over the tire 
>> compared to strapping it to Brooks slots -- note of course that the 
>> bag-holding device is far more vertical than that built in to the Super C 
>> Slim. I've used it with the Camper and the Nelson and the Junior to hold 
>> the top of the bag above the rear of the saddle. However, I'm not sure if 
>> it works well with the flatter, more horizontal Rivendell design. Perhaps 
>> others can address this?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Max Diener]

Thanks Patrick

Well, I realized my calculator was in radian mode instead of degrees. I think I 
have roughly 15" of clearance between saddle and tire... And I'm glad I'm not 
in high school geometry any more 

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Patrick Moore]

More about the Carradice SQR system: I works well to hold regular (and not
just the purpose-designed Super C Slim) transverse saddlebags higher than
the rear of the saddle (tho' your have to be aware that you'll need to lift
your leg higher when you swing it over the saddle, in case that is a
problem). I'd guess you get up to 3" of additional lift over the tire
compared to strapping it to Brooks slots -- note of course that the
bag-holding device is far more vertical than that built in to the Super C
Slim. I've used it with the Camper and the Nelson and the Junior to hold
the top of the bag above the rear of the saddle. However, I'm not sure if
it works well with the flatter, more horizontal Rivendell design. Perhaps
others can address this?

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 5:07 PM Max Diener  wrote:

> Thanks for all of the replies here; this is a very helpful community.
>
> I tend to agree the Nitto rack could make a great solution--I just don't
> know that I'm trying to spend that kind of money right now!
>
> Now I find myself in a pickle because I could have sworn that I measured
> 13" between top of tire and saddle loops when I was last with my bike, but
> I'm currently on an somewhat extended vacation to in laws and can't confirm
> because the bike in question is not with me. Something about the 13" number
> was nagging at me, so I started to do some napkin math:
>
> I am (about to) run Rat Trap Pass tires, which I read have an outer
> diameter when inflated of 67.5cm, so let's round that up to 68cm, and the
> frame has virtually zero BB drop. If I take half of that value, 34cm, as
> the starting height for my crank center and use RBW's Saddle Height of 78cm
> (with their formula based on my PBH of 89cm--which I think is close to how
> my bike is set up), I land at the saddle being roughly 112cm over the
> ground. This would give me a gap between seat loops (112cm) and tire (68cm)
> of 44cm, or 17in...much more substantial than I originally was remembering.
>
> Anyone care to poke a hole in that math? I feel like a crazy person
> writing that all out.
>
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Max Diener]

Whoops. Totally forgot to factor in that the saddle height is at a 70 degree 
angle. That puts me much closer to 12" between saddle and tire with my napkin 
math and if I'm remembering sohcahtoa right...

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[RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Max Diener]

Thanks for all of the replies here; this is a very helpful community. 

I tend to agree the Nitto rack could make a great solution--I just don't 
know that I'm trying to spend that kind of money right now!

Now I find myself in a pickle because I could have sworn that I measured 
13" between top of tire and saddle loops when I was last with my bike, but 
I'm currently on an somewhat extended vacation to in laws and can't confirm 
because the bike in question is not with me. Something about the 13" number 
was nagging at me, so I started to do some napkin math:

I am (about to) run Rat Trap Pass tires, which I read have an outer 
diameter when inflated of 67.5cm, so let's round that up to 68cm, and the 
frame has virtually zero BB drop. If I take half of that value, 34cm, as 
the starting height for my crank center and use RBW's Saddle Height of 78cm 
(with their formula based on my PBH of 89cm--which I think is close to how 
my bike is set up), I land at the saddle being roughly 112cm over the 
ground. This would give me a gap between seat loops (112cm) and tire (68cm) 
of 44cm, or 17in...much more substantial than I originally was remembering.

Anyone care to poke a hole in that math? I feel like a crazy person writing 
that all out. 

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[RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

['Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch]

If you'd settle for the previous generation large SaddleSack, in Olive (!), 
I have a barely used one. I don't commute anymore and have a grocery store 
in sight of my house. If I go to Trader Joe's, I use a medium Saddle Sack 
(thanks to Joe!) and pannier(s) if need be.
Let me know if you are interested! (And, note that you get two more pockets 
AND a detachable pouch than with the current model.)

You probably don't want to combine a Sackville of either generation or 
size, with the Carradice supports. The deeper Expedition model, like the 
Sport, has an upturned end and it doesn't play well with the flat bottom of 
the Sackvilles. The Carradice bags don't have flat bottoms.

The Erlen shape would be better but it would be forced to carry all the 
weight and movement of your load because it is not dropped low enough to 
put weight on the saddle loops of such a tall bag.

The Nitto bag supports do look less "racklike" when the struts are 
connected to the seat stays of your bike
How about a Nitto R-10?
https://www.benscycle.com/nitto-r10-rear-rack/rear_mount_rack_nitto__870-801-11/product

David Lipsky
Berkeley, CA

PS. I also have a never used Carradice Expedition QR if anyone has an 
interest I sold the Carradice Super C bag I bought it for and as above, 
the Sackvilles won't sit nicely on it.


On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 7:42:53 AM UTC-7, Max Diener wrote:
>
> I am really interested in buying a Sackville Baggabond (their current 
> large) Saddlebag, but also really would like to run it on a bike with no 
> rack.
>
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Joe Bernard]

Hey Max, if you can live with gray in a brand new Happisack for less than a 
brand new price, gimme a holler. I've never used the dang thing and I don't see 
that changing this year so maybe you can. Check me at:

joeremi62 gmail com
or text 415 786 4623

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Joe Bernard]

I've tried several times with various Sackvilles to make "not an inch to spare" 
work on rackless fenderless bikes and always discover the same thing: Works 
great unloaded, go to the store and buy some stuff, load bag, ride home with it 
dragging on the tire. You're probably going to need a rack

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Max Diener]

Gotcha--thanks. I asked because I do like the way those look, not quite a 
full on rack, so was curious if I could make it work.

Interesting thought on the stick--I'll have to think on that!

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Lyman Labry]

Yes. The Baggabond may be too large for the Erlen and maybe too heavy for
what its designed for.  Just a thought.
Back to the stick.  It’s kind of an “on the fly” approach.  But maybe a
piece of black bamboo and contrasting cord would be more elegant and appear
more purposeful.

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 12:58 PM Max Diener  wrote:

> @tirebiter - yes, I've seen the same thing re: a stick, though I have had
> a hard time conceptualizing what that would look like in practice. Seeing
> Paul's pic helps me to envision it. I do wonder if it would prematurely
> stretch the bag out if done regularly...
>
> Regarding the Erlen rack, maybe you can help me understand something. If
> I'm reading their product info correctly, it allows for a bag of up to 7"
> to rest on it before that bag would be hitting the seat. How would you fit
> the Baggabond in there without seat interference?
>
> On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 11:26:41 AM UTC-6, Tirebiter ATX wrote:
>>
>> I think I’ve seen somewhere in their blog that you could use a stick and
>> strap arrangement to help support the bag.  On the other hand, the Erlen
>> rack is a more elegant solution.
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:08 AM Paul Richardson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> just measured.  got 15".
>>>
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Max Diener]

A pic of the above referenced 7", in case that clarifies my question

[image: Erlen Saddle Bag Support - Nitto Production 2.0]

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Max Diener]

@tirebiter - yes, I've seen the same thing re: a stick, though I have had a 
hard time conceptualizing what that would look like in practice. Seeing 
Paul's pic helps me to envision it. I do wonder if it would prematurely 
stretch the bag out if done regularly...

Regarding the Erlen rack, maybe you can help me understand something. If 
I'm reading their product info correctly, it allows for a bag of up to 7" 
to rest on it before that bag would be hitting the seat. How would you fit 
the Baggabond in there without seat interference?

On Monday, July 13, 2020 at 11:26:41 AM UTC-6, Tirebiter ATX wrote:
>
> I think I’ve seen somewhere in their blog that you could use a stick and 
> strap arrangement to help support the bag.  On the other hand, the Erlen 
> rack is a more elegant solution.
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:08 AM Paul Richardson  > wrote:
>
>> just measured.  got 15".
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Lyman Labry]

I think I’ve seen somewhere in their blog that you could use a stick and
strap arrangement to help support the bag.  On the other hand, the Erlen
rack is a more elegant solution.

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 11:08 AM Paul Richardson 
wrote:

> just measured.  got 15".
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Paul Richardson]

just measured.  got 15".

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[RBW] Re: (Large) Sackville Saddlebag without a Rack?

[Max Diener]

Hey Paul, that's super helpful! Thanks for the report and the pic. Do you have 
a guesstimate on distance between top of tire and saddle loops?

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