[RBW] Re: 1947 French touring bike — Bombadil/Hunqapillar inspiration?

[Joe Bernard]

Tentacular! My dubious claim to fame is I called them tentacles here, then 
Grant replied with tentacular..I'm very proud 

THAT WAS 9 YEARS AGO? 

On Tuesday, March 7, 2023 at 12:37:06 PM UTC-8 Jeremy Till wrote:

> Such "Twin Lateral" reinforcements were fairly common on taller and 
> heavier-duty French touring bikes of the mid-to-late 20th century, and have 
> been featured in Bicycle Quarterly. They're generally found on bikes 
> intended for carrying heavy camping loads (hence "Campeur") rather than, 
> say, a "Randonneur" intended for more moderate loads and more "spirited" 
> riding. It's not unheard of to see lighter-duty bikes with reinforcements, 
> however, especially if they're intended for bigger/stronger bikes. I even 
> recall seeing a racing frameset from an Italian builder of a very large 
> size that featured Bombadil-esque reinforcements.
>
> Here's another example of a French Campeur: 
> https://flic.kr/s/aHsjuLmnvw
>
> Hard to say if such bikes were an inspiration for Breezer #1, maybe 
> somebody can ask Joe Breeze next time they're at the Marin Museum. It 
> wouldn't be impossible, given cycling's popularity in the Bay Area, that he 
> might have encountered such a bike before building his own. 
>
> Grant designed a custom with true twin lateral reinforcements back in 
> 2014, except they were "tentacular" in that one curved up to the seatstay 
> and the other curved down to the chainstay:
>
> https://flic.kr/p/mjNfJc
>
> It was for a relatively short rider who wouldn't normally have warranted 
> such reinforcement on their frame but I recall it was a specific request 
> from the customer, who was enamored with the "tentacular" diagatube setup 
> on the Proto-Appaloosa/"Mystery Bikes" (which were the genesis of the whole 
> "long chainstay" ethos, but that's another thread). She was a former list 
> member who went by the handle "Riv Chica Warrior," IIRC, and she had won 
> the frame in some kind of raffle that they held back then. Grant didn't 
> feel there was enough room on the headtube to braze in a full diagatube so 
> he went with the smaller diameter twin laterals.  
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA 
>
>
> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 6:38:03 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:
>
>> I'm starting a new thread here instead of pushing Eric M's epic 
>> mid-December thread "Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive 
>> thread " 
>> further afield.
>>
>> I have assumed that Joe Breeze's Breezer 1 
>>  
>> was 
>> the main inspiration for Bombadill and Hunqapillar designs. But after 
>> stumbling upon this fascinating *Bombapillar-like* French bike on eBay 
>> , I'm not so sure. The seller 
>> says it's a 1947 650b model, but info about it is scarce.The eBay page has 
>> a few other pics, too. The middle diagonal tube looks super cool to me.
>>
>> Is anyone here familiar with this bike? I'd love to hear about it if 
>> you've got info or history to share. I wonder if it was an actual 
>> production model or more of a one-off custom. 
>>
>> It looks robust, and has wide tires, a lugged stem (I think?), funky 
>> brake and shift levers, clean welds, racks, hammered fenders, generator 
>> lighting. I think it would be familiar in a crowd of Rivs, not a total 
>> oddball, anyway. 
>>
>> Curious what others think.
>>
>> Thanks! 
>> Jim
>>
>> (This photo would've been apropos on the cool thread "Celebrating 
>> Triangulation 
>> " 
>> from Sept. 24.)
>>
>> [image: 1947 French Bombapillar s-l1600-2.jpeg]
>>
>>  
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: 1947 French touring bike — Bombadil/Hunqapillar inspiration?

[Steven Sweedler]

I met a rider during Bikecentennial that had similar diagonal stay added to
a Raleigh Professional. He was happy with the result. No pictures though.
Steve

On Tue, Mar 7, 2023 at 3:37 PM Jeremy Till  wrote:

> Such "Twin Lateral" reinforcements were fairly common on taller and
> heavier-duty French touring bikes of the mid-to-late 20th century, and have
> been featured in Bicycle Quarterly. They're generally found on bikes
> intended for carrying heavy camping loads (hence "Campeur") rather than,
> say, a "Randonneur" intended for more moderate loads and more "spirited"
> riding. It's not unheard of to see lighter-duty bikes with reinforcements,
> however, especially if they're intended for bigger/stronger bikes. I even
> recall seeing a racing frameset from an Italian builder of a very large
> size that featured Bombadil-esque reinforcements.
>
> Here's another example of a French Campeur:
> https://flic.kr/s/aHsjuLmnvw
>
> Hard to say if such bikes were an inspiration for Breezer #1, maybe
> somebody can ask Joe Breeze next time they're at the Marin Museum. It
> wouldn't be impossible, given cycling's popularity in the Bay Area, that he
> might have encountered such a bike before building his own.
>
> Grant designed a custom with true twin lateral reinforcements back in
> 2014, except they were "tentacular" in that one curved up to the seatstay
> and the other curved down to the chainstay:
>
> https://flic.kr/p/mjNfJc
>
> It was for a relatively short rider who wouldn't normally have warranted
> such reinforcement on their frame but I recall it was a specific request
> from the customer, who was enamored with the "tentacular" diagatube setup
> on the Proto-Appaloosa/"Mystery Bikes" (which were the genesis of the whole
> "long chainstay" ethos, but that's another thread). She was a former list
> member who went by the handle "Riv Chica Warrior," IIRC, and she had won
> the frame in some kind of raffle that they held back then. Grant didn't
> feel there was enough room on the headtube to braze in a full diagatube so
> he went with the smaller diameter twin laterals.
>
> -Jeremy Till
> Sacramento, CA
>
>
> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 6:38:03 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:
>
>> I'm starting a new thread here instead of pushing Eric M's epic
>> mid-December thread "Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive
>> thread "
>> further afield.
>>
>> I have assumed that Joe Breeze's Breezer 1
>>  
>> was
>> the main inspiration for Bombadill and Hunqapillar designs. But after
>> stumbling upon this fascinating *Bombapillar-like* French bike on eBay
>> , I'm not so sure. The seller
>> says it's a 1947 650b model, but info about it is scarce.The eBay page has
>> a few other pics, too. The middle diagonal tube looks super cool to me.
>>
>> Is anyone here familiar with this bike? I'd love to hear about it if
>> you've got info or history to share. I wonder if it was an actual
>> production model or more of a one-off custom.
>>
>> It looks robust, and has wide tires, a lugged stem (I think?), funky
>> brake and shift levers, clean welds, racks, hammered fenders, generator
>> lighting. I think it would be familiar in a crowd of Rivs, not a total
>> oddball, anyway.
>>
>> Curious what others think.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Jim
>>
>> (This photo would've been apropos on the cool thread "Celebrating
>> Triangulation
>> "
>> from Sept. 24.)
>>
>> [image: 1947 French Bombapillar s-l1600-2.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>
-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[RBW] Re: 1947 French touring bike — Bombadil/Hunqapillar inspiration?

[Jeremy Till]

Such "Twin Lateral" reinforcements were fairly common on taller and 
heavier-duty French touring bikes of the mid-to-late 20th century, and have 
been featured in Bicycle Quarterly. They're generally found on bikes 
intended for carrying heavy camping loads (hence "Campeur") rather than, 
say, a "Randonneur" intended for more moderate loads and more "spirited" 
riding. It's not unheard of to see lighter-duty bikes with reinforcements, 
however, especially if they're intended for bigger/stronger bikes. I even 
recall seeing a racing frameset from an Italian builder of a very large 
size that featured Bombadil-esque reinforcements.

Here's another example of a French Campeur: 
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjuLmnvw

Hard to say if such bikes were an inspiration for Breezer #1, maybe 
somebody can ask Joe Breeze next time they're at the Marin Museum. It 
wouldn't be impossible, given cycling's popularity in the Bay Area, that he 
might have encountered such a bike before building his own. 

Grant designed a custom with true twin lateral reinforcements back in 2014, 
except they were "tentacular" in that one curved up to the seatstay and the 
other curved down to the chainstay:

https://flic.kr/p/mjNfJc

It was for a relatively short rider who wouldn't normally have warranted 
such reinforcement on their frame but I recall it was a specific request 
from the customer, who was enamored with the "tentacular" diagatube setup 
on the Proto-Appaloosa/"Mystery Bikes" (which were the genesis of the whole 
"long chainstay" ethos, but that's another thread). She was a former list 
member who went by the handle "Riv Chica Warrior," IIRC, and she had won 
the frame in some kind of raffle that they held back then. Grant didn't 
feel there was enough room on the headtube to braze in a full diagatube so 
he went with the smaller diameter twin laterals.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 


On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 6:38:03 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

> I'm starting a new thread here instead of pushing Eric M's epic 
> mid-December thread "Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive 
> thread " 
> further afield.
>
> I have assumed that Joe Breeze's Breezer 1 
>  
> was 
> the main inspiration for Bombadill and Hunqapillar designs. But after 
> stumbling upon this fascinating *Bombapillar-like* French bike on eBay 
> , I'm not so sure. The seller says 
> it's a 1947 650b model, but info about it is scarce.The eBay page has a few 
> other pics, too. The middle diagonal tube looks super cool to me.
>
> Is anyone here familiar with this bike? I'd love to hear about it if 
> you've got info or history to share. I wonder if it was an actual 
> production model or more of a one-off custom. 
>
> It looks robust, and has wide tires, a lugged stem (I think?), funky brake 
> and shift levers, clean welds, racks, hammered fenders, generator lighting. 
> I think it would be familiar in a crowd of Rivs, not a total oddball, 
> anyway. 
>
> Curious what others think.
>
> Thanks! 
> Jim
>
> (This photo would've been apropos on the cool thread "Celebrating 
> Triangulation 
> " 
> from Sept. 24.)
>
> [image: 1947 French Bombapillar s-l1600-2.jpeg]
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: 1947 French touring bike — Bombadil/Hunqapillar inspiration?

[Den John]

Horizontal double top-tubes like on the Bombadil-Hunqapillar are quite 
common on Dutch and Belgian town and cargo bikes. 
I wonder if this 

 
1920s Labor racing bike was the inspiration for the rainbow tube on the 
Atlantis.

Cheers,
Johnny in Belgium

On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 14:49:38 UTC+1 lconley wrote:

> Note that Grant does not use twin tubes for the diagonals from the head 
> tube - he uses a single tube, even on the mixte-ish frames and tandems. As 
> far as I know he has only done one frame with twin diagonal tubes, does 
> anyone know of another?
>
> [image: WorkS.jpg]
>
> One thing that I know about that French bike is that the stem is not 
> lugged, the French were fond of casting aluminum stems that looked lugged, 
> but were not. Pivo, AVA and ATAX were among them. There is an AVA stem that 
> is known as the death stem due its tendency to crack completely through, 
> maybe they have moved on to carbon fiber now. That stem on that bike looks 
> like a Pivo due to the elongated oval around the name - cannot make it out, 
> but AVA used a diamond shape.
>
> Laing
>
>
> On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 9:38:03 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> I'm starting a new thread here instead of pushing Eric M's epic 
>> mid-December thread "Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive 
>> thread " 
>> further afield.
>>
>> I have assumed that Joe Breeze's Breezer 1 
>>  
>> was 
>> the main inspiration for Bombadill and Hunqapillar designs. But after 
>> stumbling upon this fascinating *Bombapillar-like* French bike on eBay 
>> , I'm not so sure. The seller 
>> says it's a 1947 650b model, but info about it is scarce.The eBay page has 
>> a few other pics, too. The middle diagonal tube looks super cool to me.
>>
>> Is anyone here familiar with this bike? I'd love to hear about it if 
>> you've got info or history to share. I wonder if it was an actual 
>> production model or more of a one-off custom. 
>>
>> It looks robust, and has wide tires, a lugged stem (I think?), funky 
>> brake and shift levers, clean welds, racks, hammered fenders, generator 
>> lighting. I think it would be familiar in a crowd of Rivs, not a total 
>> oddball, anyway. 
>>
>> Curious what others think.
>>
>> Thanks! 
>> Jim
>>
>> (This photo would've been apropos on the cool thread "Celebrating 
>> Triangulation 
>> " 
>> from Sept. 24.)
>>
>> [image: 1947 French Bombapillar s-l1600-2.jpeg]
>>
>>  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: 1947 French touring bike — Bombadil/Hunqapillar inspiration?

[Joe Bernard]

I don't know anything about the French bike but I don't think Grant was 
inspired by any particular one when he started fiddling with extra tubes. 
There was an early Rivendell Reader (I guess they're all early now) with an 
article all about triangulation and bridge trusses and stuff, I think it 
started there. 

Joe Bernard 

On Monday, March 6, 2023 at 6:38:03 PM UTC-8 J J wrote:

> I'm starting a new thread here instead of pushing Eric M's epic 
> mid-December thread "Bombadil and Hunqapillar origins: The definitive 
> thread " 
> further afield.
>
> I have assumed that Joe Breeze's Breezer 1 
>  
> was 
> the main inspiration for Bombadill and Hunqapillar designs. But after 
> stumbling upon this fascinating *Bombapillar-like* French bike on eBay 
> , I'm not so sure. The seller says 
> it's a 1947 650b model, but info about it is scarce.The eBay page has a few 
> other pics, too. The middle diagonal tube looks super cool to me.
>
> Is anyone here familiar with this bike? I'd love to hear about it if 
> you've got info or history to share. I wonder if it was an actual 
> production model or more of a one-off custom. 
>
> It looks robust, and has wide tires, a lugged stem (I think?), funky brake 
> and shift levers, clean welds, racks, hammered fenders, generator lighting. 
> I think it would be familiar in a crowd of Rivs, not a total oddball, 
> anyway. 
>
> Curious what others think.
>
> Thanks! 
> Jim
>
> (This photo would've been apropos on the cool thread "Celebrating 
> Triangulation 
> " 
> from Sept. 24.)
>
> [image: 1947 French Bombapillar s-l1600-2.jpeg]
>
>  
>

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