[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

['Bikie#4646' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hunter,

You may be able to have your cake and eat it, too. When I found my sport 
tourer bike was a bit too wimpy for 4 full panniers and racks, I started 
using a BOB trailer when I went a-touring. On rail trails (read: flat, not 
always paved) I even used it on a SS ridged 29er mountain bike. It's a 
whole different experience towing the weight behind, admittedly, and not 
for everyone. But you might like it and you can get in and out of the 
trailer decision for cheap - especially if you find one used. (I think I 
paid about $200 for mine). I have an AHH now and think it would handle the 
trailer fine. 

I now have a dedicated touring bike I set up from a Sam Hillborne, so use 
Nitto racks and panniers. Sold the BOB since it was overlap. But, it gave 
me a chance to learn what I needed to know about touring and touring 
equipment over the couple years I used the BOB.

Downsides to a trailer? A bit harder to transport depending on your 
vehicle. Harder to get in and out of the bag(s) in a hurry if you need 
something like a jacket. (But you can always add a handlebar bag for 
snacks, jacket, etc., which is what I did). A bit more to store. Finally, 
towing the weight behind can take some getting used to - both for you and 
your touring partners following you and is harder to park, though they do 
make a kickstand for the Bob, which helped me a lot.

Paul Germain
Midlothian, Va.

On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-4, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> Hey guys--looking at a future dream bike, and since I'm dreaming, I might 
> as well dream. 
>
> I want a Rivendell bike that I can use for touring, don't want to pay for 
> a full custom job, and I want center-pull braze-ons (I am flexible in 
> real-life, but since this is a dream...indulge me)
>
> Riv can affordably add Centerpull mounts to the AHH, but that's it. Great! 
> Problem solved. But...Riv says the AHH isn't suitable for "self supported 
> long tours." Does anyone know why? I want a bike that I could, someday, 
> ride across the country, or put a baby in a seat on the back, or something 
> like that. I want to carry 30-40 pounds, not 40-60. I weigh 180. 
>
> Has anyone toured with their AHH, or know what its capable of carrying, or 
> know why Riv has relatively stringent limits on its carrying capacity?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Hunter "wants to be a iRBW Owners' Bunch member but is really only an iBob 
> member" Ellis
>

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[Joe Bernard]

I have CX70 cantis on my Appaloosa. Good power, excellent modulation, no 
squeal..the proverbial "invisible bike part" which does what it's supposed to 
do so well that you forget about it. They look good, too.

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[RichS]

Hunter, my Atlantis uses Shimano CX-70 cantis and I couldn't be more 
pleased with both. Regarding buying a less expensive interim bike, it could 
take some time to put a new AHH or Atlantis or Hunq in your hands. The time 
between paying a deposit and paying the balance could enable you to be 
creative with the financing; possibly you could work with Riv on that? 
Timeline for my Atlantis from order to delivery was eight months. Worth the 
wait!

Best of luck,
Richard

On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-4, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> Hey guys--looking at a future dream bike, and since I'm dreaming, I might 
> as well dream. 
>
> I want a Rivendell bike that I can use for touring, don't want to pay for 
> a full custom job, and I want center-pull braze-ons (I am flexible in 
> real-life, but since this is a dream...indulge me)
>
> Riv can affordably add Centerpull mounts to the AHH, but that's it. Great! 
> Problem solved. But...Riv says the AHH isn't suitable for "self supported 
> long tours." Does anyone know why? I want a bike that I could, someday, 
> ride across the country, or put a baby in a seat on the back, or something 
> like that. I want to carry 30-40 pounds, not 40-60. I weigh 180. 
>
> Has anyone toured with their AHH, or know what its capable of carrying, or 
> know why Riv has relatively stringent limits on its carrying capacity?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Hunter "wants to be a iRBW Owners' Bunch member but is really only an iBob 
> member" Ellis
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm no brake expert, and have canti's on both my Hunqapillar and Quickbeam. 
I think the canti modulation thing is a non-issue in actual use. I have no 
issue feathering my brakes or clamping them hard or everything in between. 
This includes nearly all riding conditions of surface, weather, load, etc. 
The most challenging braking conditions I've done is bikepacking down rocky 
mountain passes on single track and that worked beautifully.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 10:28:40 AM UTC-6, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> I've heard that the stopping power of brazed on centerpulls is equal to 
> canti's but with better modulation, making it just about the best 
> rim-braking option (except for the clearance issues).
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[Hunter Ellis]

Thanks again to all. A few things:

I have a perfectly lovely Bridgestone road bike that I've clamped racks on 
and am touring with shortly. I think I can get a very good deal on the VO 
frame and I already have the parts so that would not be a very significant 
investment, but I do appreciate the sentiment of holding out for the better 
frame.

I also agree more and more than getting the right bike for my daily riding 
is most important, and I fi want to load it up SOMETIMES, then I can do 
that.

As far as the centerpull thing goes, thank you for indulging me. From 
reading (not from experience), I've heard that the stopping power of brazed 
on centerpulls is equal to canti's but with better modulation, making it 
just about the best rim-braking option (except for the clearance issues).

But if I accept that this bike will be a daily rider, overnighter, and 
explorer (it sounds like I ride like Drew), then I'm not so worried. In 
fact, I'm excited!

Sounds like having a different bike dedicated as heavy loaded tourer--for 
the four or five times I go out for longer than a week--is the right 
approach. 

That being said, I appreciate the love for that Atlantis on here, and if I 
can get that damn brazed on centerpull fantasy out of my head, then I would 
totally lean further in that direction :-)

Thanks everyone!

On Sunday, August 7, 2016 at 8:13:52 AM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> I have four bicycles right now with centerpull brakes, one of which is 
> brazed on, the rest have a traditional mount through the fork crowns and 
> seat stay bridges. I would be hard-pressed to tell the difference. In fact, 
> the Dia Compes are my favorite brake. Visually, you need to be a 
> cognoscenti to even notice the difference between the two mounting options. 
> I will grant that having the brazed on posts is not an affectation, but it 
> will not change the enjoyment of the bicycle.
>
> My two cents:
>
> Get the AHH, since that is the bike you want. Get it stock, and put some 
> nice centerpulls on it. You can hardly tell if they are brazed or not, so I 
> don't think this will wreak havoc on your "classic road" aesthetic--in 
> fact, the braze-ons are not nearly ubiquitous enough (now or then) to 
> qualify as classic. If at some point down the road, you really really 
> really think your life will be improved by getting the braze on style, go 
> for it.
>
> Buying a bike that is purpose built for 5% of your riding (which may turn 
> out to be an overestimate, if you are like most folks) does not make much 
> sense. At a rider weight of 180, you will be able to tour with the baggage 
> you need.
>
> The VO Campeur is a nice bike, but if you really can't swing for the AHH 
> immediately, why not look for a used bike with centerpulls and wide 
> clearances and put the rest in the piggy bank so you can get the AHH that 
> much sooner--a new bike loses a big chunk of value as soon as it comes off 
> the floor. I picked up this Takara for $100 a few weeks ago--centerpulls 
> and clearance for 40mm tires easy, probably 38 with fenders. Even has 
> Rivish lugs. Here it is still with 27" wheels:
>
>
> 
>
> Of course if it were to be used for touring, everything--including water 
> bottle cages--would have to be clamped on.
>
>
> On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 9:35:58 PM UTC-4, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>>
>> You guys are all the best and very helpful.
>>
>> I realize it sounds a little silly, but yes, the bottom line is, I want a 
>> touring bike with centerpull posts. 
>>
>> I just like them, and I like the idea of them. I ride 28's now, which 
>> seem wide (I know, I know, I'm working my way up), so 38's sound plenty 
>> huge. From my emails with Vince and Rivendell, it sounds like its more 
>> complicated/expensive to REMOVE the canti posts and add centerpull posts. I 
>> don't know why exactly, but that's what he said. His suggestion was to add 
>> the to the AHH because they don't have any posts already. 
>>
>> Honestly, 95% of my riding time will be spent commuting, roaming, 
>> exploring, maybe doing a S48O, and basically carrying 5-15 lbs (in addition 
>> to my 180 lb self). I just want the OPTION to load it up for 2-3 weeks.
>>
>> I might acquire a VO Campeur before I can afford a Riv, in which case I 
>> could save that for dedicated touring and use my Riv as a wannabe 
>> Rando/commuter/country bike. I'd liek to be able to take it on some fire 
>> roads or even smooth singletrack, not cyclocross style or anything, just 
>> exploring-style.
>>
>> I'm also all about touring on "not the right bike," I just don't want to 
>> break it :-)
>>
>> The easy thing is just to accept canti brakes, but I just love the idea 
>> of centerpulls with posts. It fits more with the "classic road" aesthetic 
>> that I want in this baby.
>>
>> One option is to just go all in and get a custom rivendell. Anoth

Re: [RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have four bicycles right now with centerpull brakes, one of which is 
brazed on, the rest have a traditional mount through the fork crowns and 
seat stay bridges. I would be hard-pressed to tell the difference. In fact, 
the Dia Compes are my favorite brake. Visually, you need to be a 
cognoscenti to even notice the difference between the two mounting options. 
I will grant that having the brazed on posts is not an affectation, but it 
will not change the enjoyment of the bicycle.

My two cents:

Get the AHH, since that is the bike you want. Get it stock, and put some 
nice centerpulls on it. You can hardly tell if they are brazed or not, so I 
don't think this will wreak havoc on your "classic road" aesthetic--in 
fact, the braze-ons are not nearly ubiquitous enough (now or then) to 
qualify as classic. If at some point down the road, you really really 
really think your life will be improved by getting the braze on style, go 
for it.

Buying a bike that is purpose built for 5% of your riding (which may turn 
out to be an overestimate, if you are like most folks) does not make much 
sense. At a rider weight of 180, you will be able to tour with the baggage 
you need.

The VO Campeur is a nice bike, but if you really can't swing for the AHH 
immediately, why not look for a used bike with centerpulls and wide 
clearances and put the rest in the piggy bank so you can get the AHH that 
much sooner--a new bike loses a big chunk of value as soon as it comes off 
the floor. I picked up this Takara for $100 a few weeks ago--centerpulls 
and clearance for 40mm tires easy, probably 38 with fenders. Even has 
Rivish lugs. Here it is still with 27" wheels:



Of course if it were to be used for touring, everything--including water 
bottle cages--would have to be clamped on.


On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 9:35:58 PM UTC-4, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> You guys are all the best and very helpful.
>
> I realize it sounds a little silly, but yes, the bottom line is, I want a 
> touring bike with centerpull posts. 
>
> I just like them, and I like the idea of them. I ride 28's now, which seem 
> wide (I know, I know, I'm working my way up), so 38's sound plenty huge. 
> From my emails with Vince and Rivendell, it sounds like its more 
> complicated/expensive to REMOVE the canti posts and add centerpull posts. I 
> don't know why exactly, but that's what he said. His suggestion was to add 
> the to the AHH because they don't have any posts already. 
>
> Honestly, 95% of my riding time will be spent commuting, roaming, 
> exploring, maybe doing a S48O, and basically carrying 5-15 lbs (in addition 
> to my 180 lb self). I just want the OPTION to load it up for 2-3 weeks.
>
> I might acquire a VO Campeur before I can afford a Riv, in which case I 
> could save that for dedicated touring and use my Riv as a wannabe 
> Rando/commuter/country bike. I'd liek to be able to take it on some fire 
> roads or even smooth singletrack, not cyclocross style or anything, just 
> exploring-style.
>
> I'm also all about touring on "not the right bike," I just don't want to 
> break it :-)
>
> The easy thing is just to accept canti brakes, but I just love the idea of 
> centerpulls with posts. It fits more with the "classic road" aesthetic that 
> I want in this baby.
>
> One option is to just go all in and get a custom rivendell. Another option 
> is to get centerpull posts brazed on to a hillborne, but they can't do that 
> before they're painted, so it would require a re-paint.
>
> Ah the choices. But a million thanks to everyone on here who has given me 
> more to think about. 
>
> To hijack this thread slightly, what exactly are the experienced 
> differences between the appaloosa, hunq, and atlantis?
>
>
> On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 1:26:54 PM UTC-7, David Hays wrote:
>>
>> I have a AHH with Dia Comp 750 centerpulls, 650B and Hetres with fenders. 
>> I don’t see any limitation in the bike other than what I decide. 
>> David 
>>
>> > On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:50 PM, drew  wrote: 
>> > 
>> > Is it just a touring bike with centerpull posts that is in question? I 
>> assume rivendell can put centerpull posts on most of their bikes for a fee. 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. 
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>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[Garth]

  Hunter, You weigh 180 pounds and want to carry 30-40 on a bike and are 
concerned with "breaking it" ?  Wherever this idea came from, nowhere, it 
is complete nonsense and you know it. We're not speaking of 
super-lightweight frame here, Get the AHH and just simile :) 

   What Riv means about changing the brake mounts on a production frame 
from what I was told I was that in order to do this Grant has to change the 
plans, and Waterford charges extra to make any modifications to their "set 
workflow". In other words, they have a set blueprint of what each given 
frame is and , and so Riv says, don't like to deviate from it. Regardless, 
I just get the feeling either Grant or Waterford or both don't like the 
idea of deviating from "the plan". It seems more principle than cost. I can 
understand that. They want to keep a full custom a fully custom and full 
production frame a fully predetermined frame and that's that.  

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[drew]

ok so i think it has been answered that the homer can handle a load. 

But, 

if you are really looking for a touring bike, not a bike that can sometimes 
be loaded if necessary, i think it is silly to pick the homer just because 
it can be had with centerpull mounts. 

i had a miyata 1000 prior to a rivendell, and a trek 620 before that (my 
thinking is that the homer is probably fairly similar to these bikes). 
loaded up, they rode fine, and i didnt know any better. then i got a hunq 
with +50mm tires and it felt like a cadillac when loaded. just a joy to 
ride, even up hills and stuff. i wouldnt have ever broken the miyata or the 
trek from loading them, many people have toured the world on those models, 
but the hunqapillar is a markedly better and more comfortable touring bike 
that can go any of the places i want it to go. 

if you do end up touring, i think you'll really quickly want bigger tires. 
and after you get those, youll want even bigger ones. i also dont know what 
babies and seats weigh (knock on wood) but i think you could probably get 
up to 40lbs of stuff pretty fast. 

 i have to think that rivendell can get waterford to put on centerpull 
posts (and omit canti posts) for a fee that isnt as expensive as a full 
custom frame. 

re: your other question...
I've since purchased a 1999ish Atlantis (hang out on the group long enough 
and there are deals too good to pass up), so the specs are not exactly the 
same as the current model. the atlantis and hunq live in different cities, 
because there is a lot of overlap and they both can likely do  anything the 
other can, and i got them to do the same thing. The Atlantis has a more 
classic aesthetic and has a bit more zip unloaded. because of this, i think 
it it the more versatile bike. Loaded, they feel about the same. the main 
difference is in the fit for me. im not a geometry expert, but i think it 
is the longer top tube on the hunq. it is the most comfortable bike ive 
ever ridden, and i often choose it for road rides, despite its racks and 
fenders, because it is so much more comfortable than anything else.

disclaimer:
i dont do club rides and rarely ride with other people. i dont know or 
really care how fast i go, but i think its probably pretty slow. im not 
entirely sure what strava is. singletrack is a little nerve wracking for 
me. most of my riding consists of errands, days off where i go explore for 
5-6 hours, and 1-7 night camping tours.  so that's the lens through which 
im basing my opinion. 

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[dougP]

Hunter:

You mention "... But...Riv says the AHH isn't suitable for "self supported 
long tours.  Does anyone know why?."

Rivendell is pretty conservative in their recommendations as to suitability 
for a particular service.  What you describe is right in the Atlantis sweet 
spot.  BUT you have to ask yourself if this is the predominate use for the 
bike?  Lots of people spend the majority of their riding time unloaded, 
then add 30-40 lbs of gear a few times a year.  One bike to do it all is a 
nice approach.  Your weight is not unusual.  I'd venture either Homer or 
Atlantis would work for you.  If your heart is set on Homer, you won't 
regret it.  

It's always nice to have the "ideal bike" for whatever we're doing at the 
moment.  I've done quite a bit of touring on my Atlantis, and always meet 
people having at least as much fun on all manner of less than ideal bikes.  
Converted MTBs, 70s/80s era road bikes with racks fastened with p-clamps, 
touring bikes, you name it.  Homer would actually be more toward the 
touring end of the scale than lots of bikes I've seen.  As they say in Oz, 
"..she'll do..."

dougP

On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 11:15:06 PM UTC-7, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> Hey guys--looking at a future dream bike, and since I'm dreaming, I might 
> as well dream. 
>
> I want a Rivendell bike that I can use for touring, don't want to pay for 
> a full custom job, and I want center-pull braze-ons (I am flexible in 
> real-life, but since this is a dream...indulge me)
>
> Riv can affordably add Centerpull mounts to the AHH, but that's it. Great! 
> Problem solved. But...Riv says the AHH isn't suitable for "self supported 
> long tours." Does anyone know why? I want a bike that I could, someday, 
> ride across the country, or put a baby in a seat on the back, or something 
> like that. I want to carry 30-40 pounds, not 40-60. I weigh 180. 
>
> Has anyone toured with their AHH, or know what its capable of carrying, or 
> know why Riv has relatively stringent limits on its carrying capacity?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Hunter "wants to be a iRBW Owners' Bunch member but is really only an iBob 
> member" Ellis
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[Hunter Ellis]

You guys are all the best and very helpful.

I realize it sounds a little silly, but yes, the bottom line is, I want a 
touring bike with centerpull posts. 

I just like them, and I like the idea of them. I ride 28's now, which seem 
wide (I know, I know, I'm working my way up), so 38's sound plenty huge. 
>From my emails with Vince and Rivendell, it sounds like its more 
complicated/expensive to REMOVE the canti posts and add centerpull posts. I 
don't know why exactly, but that's what he said. His suggestion was to add 
the to the AHH because they don't have any posts already. 

Honestly, 95% of my riding time will be spent commuting, roaming, 
exploring, maybe doing a S48O, and basically carrying 5-15 lbs (in addition 
to my 180 lb self). I just want the OPTION to load it up for 2-3 weeks.

I might acquire a VO Campeur before I can afford a Riv, in which case I 
could save that for dedicated touring and use my Riv as a wannabe 
Rando/commuter/country bike. I'd liek to be able to take it on some fire 
roads or even smooth singletrack, not cyclocross style or anything, just 
exploring-style.

I'm also all about touring on "not the right bike," I just don't want to 
break it :-)

The easy thing is just to accept canti brakes, but I just love the idea of 
centerpulls with posts. It fits more with the "classic road" aesthetic that 
I want in this baby.

One option is to just go all in and get a custom rivendell. Another option 
is to get centerpull posts brazed on to a hillborne, but they can't do that 
before they're painted, so it would require a re-paint.

Ah the choices. But a million thanks to everyone on here who has given me 
more to think about. 

To hijack this thread slightly, what exactly are the experienced 
differences between the appaloosa, hunq, and atlantis?


On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 1:26:54 PM UTC-7, David Hays wrote:
>
> I have a AHH with Dia Comp 750 centerpulls, 650B and Hetres with fenders. 
> I don’t see any limitation in the bike other than what I decide. 
> David 
>
> > On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:50 PM, drew > 
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Is it just a touring bike with centerpull posts that is in question? I 
> assume rivendell can put centerpull posts on most of their bikes for a fee. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[David Hays]

I have a AHH with Dia Comp 750 centerpulls, 650B and Hetres with fenders.
I don’t see any limitation in the bike other than what I decide.
David

> On Aug 6, 2016, at 3:50 PM, drew  wrote:
> 
> Is it just a touring bike with centerpull posts that is in question? I assume 
> rivendell can put centerpull posts on most of their bikes for a fee. 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[drew]

Is it just a touring bike with centerpull posts that is in question? I assume 
rivendell can put centerpull posts on most of their bikes for a fee. 

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[Michael Hechmer]

Ellis, you have received lots of replies but allow me to add a few more 
points.  I own, among other bikes, an early  63 cm version of the Saluki, 
which is the frame that the AHH grew out of.  If memory serves me right the 
AHH was originally introduced in the larger sizes in 700C and the Saluki 
remained the smaller 650B offering.  Mine is 650B.

The Saluki is noticeably heavier and stiffer than my Ramboulliet.  I would 
not hesitate to use it for "loaded touring", unless perhaps I was headed 
for Tierra Del Fuego, in which case I would want at least an Atlantis, or 
maybe a Comotion Americano.  The Saluki is much more of an All Arounder and 
I suspect the AHH is too.  I think you would find it more responsive and 
more fun for everday commuting and club riding.

My Saluki currently has the 41mm Fatty Bumbkin tires and Al fenders but it 
has Paul's Cant Brakes.  Our tandem originally had Paul's posted CPs and I 
loved the action, but they maxed out at a 55 mm fender and 38 mm tire.  I 
understand that the Compass brakes exceed that but I think that in the long 
run you will have more options and more success with good canti  brakes 
than any other choice.

Michael

On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 2:15:06 AM UTC-4, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> Hey guys--looking at a future dream bike, and since I'm dreaming, I might 
> as well dream. 
>
> I want a Rivendell bike that I can use for touring, don't want to pay for 
> a full custom job, and I want center-pull braze-ons (I am flexible in 
> real-life, but since this is a dream...indulge me)
>
> Riv can affordably add Centerpull mounts to the AHH, but that's it. Great! 
> Problem solved. But...Riv says the AHH isn't suitable for "self supported 
> long tours." Does anyone know why? I want a bike that I could, someday, 
> ride across the country, or put a baby in a seat on the back, or something 
> like that. I want to carry 30-40 pounds, not 40-60. I weigh 180. 
>
> Has anyone toured with their AHH, or know what its capable of carrying, or 
> know why Riv has relatively stringent limits on its carrying capacity?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Hunter "wants to be a iRBW Owners' Bunch member but is really only an iBob 
> member" Ellis
>

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[Will]

Get an Atlantis. Has canti-posts, can take really fat tires, can take 
bullet proof touring tires... with fenders. Put Tubus racks on it. Haul 
what-ever you want. When done... put 38s on it and rocket around town. It's 
not a sled. It's a great, I'd say, brilliant, bike. I love mine. It's the 
bomb. 

Second choice... Sam. Sam will do-all too, but you give up the cantis and 
better tire selection.

There's a reason Atlantis put Riv on the map. It's probably the best 
designed all rounder bike ever. And don't worry about speed/sporty... it's 
as fast as you are. Lively too.   

On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 1:15:06 AM UTC-5, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> Hey guys--looking at a future dream bike, and since I'm dreaming, I might 
> as well dream. 
>
> I want a Rivendell bike that I can use for touring, don't want to pay for 
> a full custom job, and I want center-pull braze-ons (I am flexible in 
> real-life, but since this is a dream...indulge me)
>
> Riv can affordably add Centerpull mounts to the AHH, but that's it. Great! 
> Problem solved. But...Riv says the AHH isn't suitable for "self supported 
> long tours." Does anyone know why? I want a bike that I could, someday, 
> ride across the country, or put a baby in a seat on the back, or something 
> like that. I want to carry 30-40 pounds, not 40-60. I weigh 180. 
>
> Has anyone toured with their AHH, or know what its capable of carrying, or 
> know why Riv has relatively stringent limits on its carrying capacity?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Hunter "wants to be a iRBW Owners' Bunch member but is really only an iBob 
> member" Ellis
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[James Warren]

It's nice to give people the benefit of the doubt. I reject a statement that 
characterizes an individual, given limited information about the circumstances.

> On Aug 6, 2016, at 7:23 AM,
> 
> Sometimes he's grouchy.

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[Ginz]

I would make sure you are completely comfortable with the tire size you can fit 
with fenders under the center pulls. That is, by far, the most limiting factor 
and I think that's what Grant would say. 

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[John]

Sometimes the people at Riv have given me differing and/or opposing advice 
depending on who I spoke to.

You might consider calling Riv and asking to speak to Grant. Ask him if he 
has a few minutes and make sure he's having a good day. Sometimes he's 
grouchy. 

Tell him you're interested in the AHH. Tell him what kind of roads you plan 
on riding, and what kinds of touring you want to do, and how much you plan 
on carrying.

Ask him for his recommendation on how to carry those loads: front vs back, 
panniers vs saddlebag vs basket or front bag.

Then weigh what you hear from Grant against what AHH owners here have to 
say. And ride one in your size if you can and see how the Homer feels to 
you.

I believe I've seen photos of Homers with child seats on the back posted by 
someone here in the group.

John





On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 11:15:06 PM UTC-7, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> Hey guys--looking at a future dream bike, and since I'm dreaming, I might 
> as well dream. 
>
> I want a Rivendell bike that I can use for touring, don't want to pay for 
> a full custom job, and I want center-pull braze-ons (I am flexible in 
> real-life, but since this is a dream...indulge me)
>
> Riv can affordably add Centerpull mounts to the AHH, but that's it. Great! 
> Problem solved. But...Riv says the AHH isn't suitable for "self supported 
> long tours." Does anyone know why? I want a bike that I could, someday, 
> ride across the country, or put a baby in a seat on the back, or something 
> like that. I want to carry 30-40 pounds, not 40-60. I weigh 180. 
>
> Has anyone toured with their AHH, or know what its capable of carrying, or 
> know why Riv has relatively stringent limits on its carrying capacity?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Hunter "wants to be a iRBW Owners' Bunch member but is really only an iBob 
> member" Ellis
>

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[Deacon Patrick]

Atlantis, Appaloosa, and Samuel Hillborne all fall squarely in the space 
you describe, as intended by Rivendell. Homer *can* do a loaded tour, just 
as a Quickbeam *can*. (I don't own a Homer, but have a QB, and they are 
somewhat similar in their country road intentions and lightness). But it's 
underbiking and will have the bike defining the experience more than 
flowing through it, if it is anything like when I underbike my Quickbeam on 
single track. Underbiking is a fantastic exercise in increasing bike 
confidence and handling skills, but I do not recommend intentionally 
underbuying for your primary stated purpose.

Much like you, in 2012 I was seeking "the one bike to rule them all." I 
described my version of what I was hoping to do to Grant (touring, much as 
yours is). Grant strongly urged me to go Hunqapillar, and I am delighted he 
did. My "touring" ended up being primary remote backroad and singletrack 
bikepacking and similar day rides, plus grocery getting. After a few years, 
I got a "go fast" QB to compliment my riding and have a second bike for 
whenever the "one" is down. They are both beloved and near essential.

I can't speak to the Homer's fork, but I notice a lot of flex with the QB's 
fork and it is clear on steep braking on trails that I am underbiking (in 
case 38 mm tires over rocks and roots weren't enough. Grin.). I would be 
very hesitant to do anything other than credit card touring on my QB (and 
that I wouldn't hesitate to do at all, if I did that type of touring).

All a very meandoneering way of saying buy a bike that centers on your 
intended purpose. It is made to perform brilliantly there. You will find it 
capable of doing a wide variety besides, but may eventually find joy in 
getting an AHH or Rodeo to compliment it. Grin. Thus, focus your dream, by 
possibly eventually expanding it to two bikes, and delight in a touring 
bike and all the wonders it offers along the way.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Saturday, August 6, 2016 at 12:15:06 AM UTC-6, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> Hey guys--looking at a future dream bike, and since I'm dreaming, I might 
> as well dream. 
>

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[RBW] Re: AHH For Loaded Touring?

[cyclotour...@gmail.com]

Hi Hunter, there is no rule that says no, you can't use an AHH as a loaded 
tourer. Load it up and go! The only downsides are that the frame will be 
really flexy with all that weight, and tire size is limited (especially 
with fenders). But people have gone touring with flexy bikes and skinny 
tires for the last 120 years, so you'll be fine. 



The flip side is, if you want a solid bike when you're weighed down, and 
want some fat tires with fenders, I think you'll feel limited with an AHH. 
An Atlantis would be the better bike to address those shortcomings. My 
recommendation would be to get an Atlantis for what you mentioned. If you 
want the one bike that does it all, that's the way to go. 

YMMV of course.

On Friday, August 5, 2016 at 11:15:06 PM UTC-7, Hunter Ellis wrote:
>
> Hey guys--looking at a future dream bike, and since I'm dreaming, I might 
> as well dream. 
>
> I want a Rivendell bike that I can use for touring, don't want to pay for 
> a full custom job, and I want center-pull braze-ons (I am flexible in 
> real-life, but since this is a dream...indulge me)
>
> Riv can affordably add Centerpull mounts to the AHH, but that's it. Great! 
> Problem solved. But...Riv says the AHH isn't suitable for "self supported 
> long tours." Does anyone know why? I want a bike that I could, someday, 
> ride across the country, or put a baby in a seat on the back, or something 
> like that. I want to carry 30-40 pounds, not 40-60. I weigh 180. 
>
> Has anyone toured with their AHH, or know what its capable of carrying, or 
> know why Riv has relatively stringent limits on its carrying capacity?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Hunter "wants to be a iRBW Owners' Bunch member but is really only an iBob 
> member" Ellis
>

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