[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
Overall I think this a fun thought exercise, but it's really easy to go through the looking glass in pursuit of it. As noted, the aluminum in a Paul's component, isn't MUSA, nor is probably the steel, rubber, plastic, etc in any other part. But of course raw meterials are only a small part of the equation. It seems that a large component of the MUSA goal is to keep the majority of the financial benefit in the USA. If so, you'd want to focus on the highest value added parts of the process being MUSA, and of course you'd want to pay the highest price through as many middle-men as possible to distribute that benefit. -Pete (Single Sixty Sidepull Sam) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/7s4sYMlEazEJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
DT Swiss, I believe, makes (assembles?) some of their rims/hubs/spokes/ wheels in Grand Junction, CO. On Dec 20, 10:48 am, Dave Rivbike d...@rivbike.com wrote: Gestating the idea of an All American Roadeo. Is it possible? Would have gone with say an Atlantis, but I think the MUSA quill stem doesn't exist. Roadeo Frame White Industries Crank Phil BB, Spokes Hubs Chris King Headset Paul Brakes Thomson threadless stem, seatpost Thomson even makes bolts Here's the sticky stuff: Chain, Cassette, Tires, Cabling, Shifters, Brake Levers, Rims, Handlebars Not sure if Bontrager stuff is all MUSA or not anymore, but they do rims (complete wheels), handlebars, tires, saddles, bottle cages Phil and White both make a single speed cogs but no cassettes... Paul makes brake levers, but not for drops Is it possible? Any ideas for those last bits? Is Bontrager MUSA? Am I missing some great MUSA manufacturer? I know of a custom knifemaker who machines his own cassettes, but to buy one would probably be $999 or so. More questions than answers. A monumental invoice total I'm sure, but primo stuff. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I'm aware of the overseas nature of the lugs themselves, figured someone would point that out. Even if you pounded out the lugs here, who knows where the steel came from right? I realized the great lengths you'd have to go to to be totally pure USA, but the thread has been useful so far. I learned of a few things I didn't know about. Guess that's just the way it is these days, you'll get an overseas pad on your US brake, overseas rails on your saddle, etc.. On Dec 21, 12:58 pm, Greg J gregkj...@gmail.com wrote: Not to rain on your parade, but my guess is that at least the dropouts and the lugs are made in Taiwan, so you're already in the realm of assembled in the US. Of course, you have to draw the line somewhere, and yours is a perfectly reasonable one. My impression is that American Classic has been sourcing at least some of its products from Asia for about 10 years now. I don't think post-Trek Bontrager is MUSA. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
Maybe if Tony Pereira could be convinced to make you one of those swell lever front derailleurs you see on some of his bikes. There are a few U.S. builders who make quill stems. Be ready for a long wait though. I ordered one in April and still do not have mine. On Dec 20, 11:48 am, Dave Rivbike d...@rivbike.com wrote: Gestating the idea of an All American Roadeo. Is it possible? Would have gone with say an Atlantis, but I think the MUSA quill stem doesn't exist. Roadeo Frame White Industries Crank Phil BB, Spokes Hubs Chris King Headset Paul Brakes Thomson threadless stem, seatpost Thomson even makes bolts Here's the sticky stuff: Chain, Cassette, Tires, Cabling, Shifters, Brake Levers, Rims, Handlebars Not sure if Bontrager stuff is all MUSA or not anymore, but they do rims (complete wheels), handlebars, tires, saddles, bottle cages Phil and White both make a single speed cogs but no cassettes... Paul makes brake levers, but not for drops Is it possible? Any ideas for those last bits? Is Bontrager MUSA? Am I missing some great MUSA manufacturer? I know of a custom knifemaker who machines his own cassettes, but to buy one would probably be $999 or so. More questions than answers. A monumental invoice total I'm sure, but primo stuff. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
Along these lines, just found a post on Guitar-Ted's page about bicycles and MUSA http://www.g-tedproductions.blogspot.com/2011/12/friday-news-and-views_23.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/bfQSAOqJO7oJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I'm thinking of ordering a bamboo Calfee. The bike is built in the US. I know the bamboo is imported but, by the fact that it is only grown overseas and not actually manufactured, would that be OK? Bill Louisville, Ky On Dec 21, 2011, at 4:54 PM, Dave Rivbike wrote: I'm aware of the overseas nature of the lugs themselves, figured someone would point that out. Even if you pounded out the lugs here, who knows where the steel came from right? I realized the great lengths you'd have to go to to be totally pure USA, but the thread has been useful so far. I learned of a few things I didn't know about. Guess that's just the way it is these days, you'll get an overseas pad on your US brake, overseas rails on your saddle, etc.. On Dec 21, 12:58 pm, Greg J gregkj...@gmail.com wrote: Not to rain on your parade, but my guess is that at least the dropouts and the lugs are made in Taiwan, so you're already in the realm of assembled in the US. Of course, you have to draw the line somewhere, and yours is a perfectly reasonable one. My impression is that American Classic has been sourcing at least some of its products from Asia for about 10 years now. I don't think post-Trek Bontrager is MUSA. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
sarcastic subroutine INITIATE If you were to pay retail for all the MUSA parts, and then pay an American citizen to steal the non-MUSA parts, then you be camped out on the true moral highground. What a view from up there! sarcastic subroutine TERMINATE -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/LLmJput-a7kJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
Renovo hardwood bikes use imported hardwoods as well. When I worked at a Kestrel dealer in the early 90s the rep told us they got their carbon from American corn! If there's one thing we have in plentitude it's American corn. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/vxqfesQPCfUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I've been enjoying this discussion, and have tried, unsuccessfully, 3x to join it. I'm a big supporter of buy local in all parts of my life and my bikes are mostly fitted with PW BB; White hubs cranks, Paul's brakes, Cane Creek levers, HS (a great 1HS BTW), thudbuster and a nice vintage American Classic seatpost. I'm not a purist and doubt anyone is going to make a derailler better than the new RD 6700 from Shimano or Wipperman Conex chains. BTW I think tange tubing is made here but it is counterproductive to force a builder to use a certain tube set mfg. michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/S7-AKpXiUysJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I was bidding briefly on a set of Paul Rasta-colored derailleurs on eBay (because every soon to be 59 year old needs a set of Rasta derailleurs!), but it quickly got way too expensive for me. The final price was well over $1000, IIRC. On Dec 21, 2011, at 3:17 PM, Joe Bernard mailto:joerem...@gmail.comjoerem...@gmail.commailto:joerem...@gmail.com wrote: My Waterford AHH has a Precision Billet Proshift rear derailer. No luck finding the front derailer and twist shifters yet. If I got that far, the next step would be Paul centerpulls. You're right, this could become obscenely expensive! Joe Bernard Vallejo, CA. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/CiNAyOKymaIJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/CiNAyOKymaIJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/CiNAyOKymaIJ. To post to this group, send email to mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.commailto:rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
Those rasta mechs are crazy-money. My NIB Proshift was listed at 500, but I ended up doing the deal with the seller locally for 250. It's black, not my first choice, but it looks good on my light green AHH. The other colors probably would have sold for more; I'd love to find a silver one. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Rr8r5MoYWrkJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I'm not sure how buying NIB or NOS items off ebay actually helps US manufacturers. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/kb-W_iw8VscJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
It seems the point is to buy from extant US manufacturers when possible, but to try to find vintage US-made stuff otherwise. On Thursday, December 22, 2011 1:00:04 PM UTC-5, Kevin M wrote: I'm not sure how buying NIB or NOS items off ebay actually helps US manufacturers. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/IfCFcoYbIrYJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I think Kevin knew that, but thought it would be awesome to make a wisecrack. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/pqABzP4AXKYJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
There is a Paul front derailleur on eBay right now - http://tinyurl.com/7t6qqph Part of the clamp is missing. No affiliation with the seller. Have also tossed around the idea a few times of a U.S. sourced bike. Never have followed up on it. Do have US parts, but nothing cohesive. For handlebars - there are the Jones Loop bars. However, one would need a threadless stem. Finding a quill to threadless adapter made in the States might be possible. Have never looked. For quill stems - American Bicycle Manufacturing used to have a US made quill stem. Had one of the prototypes from Joe Breeze. Lost it many years ago. They still show up on eBay and local bike shops occasionally. Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Dec 22, 1:13 pm, Joe Bernard joerem...@gmail.com wrote: I think Kevin knew that, but thought it would be awesome to make a wisecrack. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I don't think anything is really 100% made in the USA, most stuff is imported and then assembled here. I think it is awesome to buy MUSA though, even if they are assembling the stuff it still creates jobs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/UQ20l9OIjGsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
The OP merely inquired if it was possible to assemble an all-USA bike. Divergences into supporting current US manufacturers, and determining the source of materials that go into a MUSA product, are pretty far beyond his question. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/1aCKBwKGbkUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I dunno, Joe. If we're going to make a special to effort to buy MUSA, then maybe it's important to define what MUSA actually means. Otherwise it's an empty feel-good term. If vintage parts, no longer made, are acceptable, why not just cut to the chase and buy an old Schwinn ballooner, in its MUSA entirety, from a yard sale? I once had a Toyota that was made by Americans (I assume) in Indiana. When I say made, I mean final assembly. The components most likely were made somewhere else. By that definition, any bicycle assembled at RBW in Walnut Creek, or by my shop in Minneapolis, is MUSA. Is it better ir worse than a good MUSA Ford, assembled in Mexico? Paul and Phil and White and the other boutique brands left in USA use aluminum, which almost certainly is non-MUSA, since the US lacks that resource. Riv frames use Taiwanese lugs and a mix of different tubing. Paint and decals? Who knows! What if Taiwanese Maxway used American-sourced frame components, but Waterford used Taiwanese-sourced frame components? Which, if either, is MUSA? My point with all this is not to be snarky or ooutside the scope of the discussion, but to illustrate that the MUSA vs non-MUSA distinction ain't as simple as it maybe was 40ish years ago when cheap imports (cars, at first) came into the American consciousness. My opinion: you buy what you feel good about buying, and hope the guy you bought it from doesn't do something disagreeable with the money that was formerly yours! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/nllu6PAutAkJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I would also like to point out that there are several middle-men to muddy the waters about MUSA. Say you have a Surly or Taiwan-made Hillborne frame (both manufactured by the same outfit, I think). Both Surly and Rivendell are American brands. Their headquarters are here. Their idea and design and marketing and distribution and customer service personnel are here. If you buy either through your LBS, yet another MUSA hand is leaving fingerprints (and making a couple bucks) on your Taiwanese frame. The country of manufacture almost seems like an arbitrary detail of the frame's life! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ST8iGxYhPMAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
Paul Brakes come with koolstop pads and hardware which I imagine might not be 100% MUSA. Also the hanger has historically been a generic one, and I imagine still is. All the bolts, also, Paul doesn't make. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/9MU_gLtZNPwJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
My Waterford AHH has a Precision Billet Proshift rear derailer. No luck finding the front derailer and twist shifters yet. If I got *that *far, the next step would be Paul centerpulls. You're right, this could become obscenely expensive! Joe Bernard Vallejo, CA. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/CiNAyOKymaIJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
I think this is a laudable goal and my Ram and tandem share it. But you do have to decide how much you are willing to sacrifice and whether it is really worth being a purist. I like Cane Creek, both as products and a company. They have mfg both on and off shore but without asking them directly it is hard to know where parts come from without asking. I have a 1 headset from them that is great, as are there brake levers, tandem levers, and thudbuster seat post, which my stoker really likes.. I also have an older American Classic seat post, which is light and strong, but i gather they have discontinued the silver version. On the other hand I use German made Wipperman Connex chains exclusively. And have to admit my new Shimano 6700 RD is the best shifting derailleur I have owned in 30 years of cycling. Thanks for starting this thread. michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/45iWn9VZxJsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
Hey, I probably have the only Rivendell with an American derailer! That's cool. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/pDDAGA0QV5AJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: All American Roadeo
Not to rain on your parade, but my guess is that at least the dropouts and the lugs are made in Taiwan, so you're already in the realm of assembled in the US. Of course, you have to draw the line somewhere, and yours is a perfectly reasonable one. My impression is that American Classic has been sourcing at least some of its products from Asia for about 10 years now. I don't think post-Trek Bontrager is MUSA. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/Dcw68dDCfEUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
