Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Todd G.]

I’ve been using Dumonde Tech for a number of years and like it. I use it 
year round, and it seems to do the job for me. It lasts somewhere around 
150 miles or so before I feel the need to wipe the chain down and re-apply 
the lube. 

Around a year ago, a friend gave me a bottle of Muc Off dry lube. I was a 
little skeptical at first because when I was a kid I used White Lightening 
dry lube, and it was a hot mess. So taking in to consideration I didn’t 
really know what the heck I was doing at that time, I used it. A sit turns 
out I really like the stuff, especially in dusty dry conditions. My entire 
drivetrain stays pretty clean, however I don’t feel like I get very much 
mileage out of a single application. 75 miles or so and I feel like I need 
to wipe down the chain and re-apply.
 
I have some Rock-n-Roll gold that I have had sitting in a cabinet for 
somewhere around 10 years or so. I need to finish the bottle off. I have no 
idea what it was that I heard, but I heard something about the owner of 
Rock-n-Roll that really rubbed me the wrong way. This was at least 10 years 
ago. So, now that I can’t recall what it was that I heard, maybe I’ll get a 
few rides in with it on a clean chain and report back. FOr whatver it’s 
worth, I feel like the Muc Off keeps the drivetrain the cleanest overall.

As far as cleaning, sometimes I use the Sonic Cleaner at work, sometimes I 
remove teh chain and put it into a screw top container filled with warm 
water and a gentle eco-friendly laundry detergent, and shake, shake, shake, 
air dry, or let it bake in the sun until it is completely dry. Those two 
are my best and most favorite methods. Between lubes I run the chain 
through a shop rag for a minute or so, changing to clean spots on the rag, 
then re-apply lube, run t through one more time to remove any excess, and 
I’m ready to ride. 

That’s my routine for the most part. I don’t really deviate from that, and 
I get good mileage out of my drivetrains, so I’m sticking to it!

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 9:34:51 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks; wasn't aware of the PTFE. And I see just now that ProLink Gold has 
> very good reviews; Ed Pavelka for one. And, it's a known -- to me -- 
> quantity.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 8:41 AM James / Analog Cycles  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> Between Rock n Roll and Prolink, I'd recommend Prolink.  No PTFE.  Read 
>> up on it if you have never done so.  Rock N Roll Gold is just teflon solids 
>> suspended in solvent, more or less.
>>
>> I'd have to look at the sludge that falls off the chain.  The crud you 
>> are trying to get rid of isn't dirt per se, it's the metal filing the chain 
>> produces in the course of use.  Those, when trapped in the rollers, are a 
>> bigger source of chain wear than anything else I can think of.  If there is 
>> no metal in the sludge, it's just a superficial cleaning.  
>>
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks; wasn't aware of the PTFE. And I see just now that ProLink Gold has
very good reviews; Ed Pavelka for one. And, it's a known -- to me --
quantity.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 8:41 AM James / Analog Cycles 
wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> Between Rock n Roll and Prolink, I'd recommend Prolink.  No PTFE.  Read up
> on it if you have never done so.  Rock N Roll Gold is just teflon solids
> suspended in solvent, more or less.
>
> I'd have to look at the sludge that falls off the chain.  The crud you are
> trying to get rid of isn't dirt per se, it's the metal filing the chain
> produces in the course of use.  Those, when trapped in the rollers, are a
> bigger source of chain wear than anything else I can think of.  If there is
> no metal in the sludge, it's just a superficial cleaning.
>

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Joel Stern]

Thanks James

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 10:34 AM James / Analog Cycles <
analogcyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Joel,
>
> I'd say for everyone who values their time, and wants a functional
> drivetrain, a bottle of prolink is the current best bet on the market. If
> you have wet conditions, use prolink to clean, and finish line wet lube to
> lube.
>
> -James
>
> On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 10:43:46 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:
>
>> I ride on dry Conditions only and was steered to Fastline dry lube.  I
>> also read about Rock and Roll gold.  For my riding are you saying Prolink,
>> and no degreaser?
>>
>> Thanks
>> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:10 AM James / Analog Cycles <
>> analog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Patrick,
>>>
>>> By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink
>>> as you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is
>>> ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and
>>> prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.
>>> It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your
>>> bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on
>>> this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.
>>>
>>> So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.
>>> Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works
>>> as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few
>>> minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post
>>> lube rim cleaning.
>>>
>>> Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to
>>> be fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone
>>> has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been
>>> impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very
>>> eco friendly to fly lube over from England.
>>>
>>> -James
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and
 cog longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and
 cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior.

 On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity.
> Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and
> also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.
>
> Thoughts and suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>

 --

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[James / Analog Cycles]

Hi Patrick,

Between Rock n Roll and Prolink, I'd recommend Prolink.  No PTFE.  Read up 
on it if you have never done so.  Rock N Roll Gold is just teflon solids 
suspended in solvent, more or less.

I'd have to look at the sludge that falls off the chain.  The crud you are 
trying to get rid of isn't dirt per se, it's the metal filing the chain 
produces in the course of use.  Those, when trapped in the rollers, are a 
bigger source of chain wear than anything else I can think of.  If there is 
no metal in the sludge, it's just a superficial cleaning.  

Best, james

On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 12:47:41 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks, James. I've recently applied "Rock 'n' Roll Gold" which I guess is 
> a "dry" lube to a chain and wiped and wiped; was surprised to see how dry 
> the outside of the chain felt the next morning. I'll have to test this 
> again with a little more attention to see if it holds the squeaks at bay 
> for 400 miles (road bike) and to see if the outside of the chain remains 
> clean. If it works, I may switch to this or to Pro Link again.
>
> The wax method does clean the chain, btw; first, there's very little dirt 
> that accumulates on the chain, and second, what does falls off in the 
> melted wax and forms a sludge on the bottom of the crockpot.
>
> But easy as waxing is, you are right, applying Pro Link, etc to the chain 
> while it is on the bike, and wiping half a dozen times is easier yet.
>
> Aside: Long ago -- 2010? -- I used White Lightning, supposed to be dry and 
> clean. It didn't attract sand, but it built up thick coils of grunge on the 
> cogs that you had to scrape off. I'm still finishing up the last 8 oz 
> bottle, probably a good 8-10 years old, by putting a bit on my pedals' clip 
> mechanism every so often; not sure it does much good ...
>
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 8:10 AM James / Analog Cycles  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink 
>> as you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is 
>> ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and 
>> prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.  
>> It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your 
>> bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on 
>> this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.  
>>
>> So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.  
>> Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works 
>> as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few 
>> minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post 
>> lube rim cleaning.
>>
>> Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to 
>> be fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone 
>> has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been 
>> impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very 
>> eco friendly to fly lube over from England.
>>
>> -James
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and 
>>> cog longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and 
>>> cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior. 
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity. 
 Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and 
 also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.

 Thoughts and suggestions?

 Thanks.

>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3273377b-66ad-4516-917b-c0c8d443f15cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[James / Analog Cycles]

Hi Joel, 

I'd say for everyone who values their time, and wants a functional 
drivetrain, a bottle of prolink is the current best bet on the market. If 
you have wet conditions, use prolink to clean, and finish line wet lube to 
lube.  

-James

On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 10:43:46 AM UTC-4 Joel S wrote:

> I ride on dry Conditions only and was steered to Fastline dry lube.  I 
> also read about Rock and Roll gold.  For my riding are you saying Prolink, 
> and no degreaser? 
>
> Thanks
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:10 AM James / Analog Cycles  
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Patrick,
>>
>> By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink 
>> as you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is 
>> ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and 
>> prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.  
>> It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your 
>> bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on 
>> this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.  
>>
>> So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.  
>> Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works 
>> as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few 
>> minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post 
>> lube rim cleaning.
>>
>> Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to 
>> be fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone 
>> has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been 
>> impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very 
>> eco friendly to fly lube over from England.
>>
>> -James
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and 
>>> cog longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and 
>>> cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior. 
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity. 
 Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and 
 also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.

 Thoughts and suggestions?

 Thanks.

>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/W--0htIVlqg/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3273377b-66ad-4516-917b-c0c8d443f15cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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> history, which includes my email address and maybe others. It is a courtesy 
> to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all 
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> addresses, prevents viruses from being propagated, and limits the 
> proliferation of spam. Also, please use the “BCC” area instead of “TO” and 
> “CC” when forwarding to several people at once.
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, James. I've recently applied "Rock 'n' Roll Gold" which I guess is
a "dry" lube to a chain and wiped and wiped; was surprised to see how dry
the outside of the chain felt the next morning. I'll have to test this
again with a little more attention to see if it holds the squeaks at bay
for 400 miles (road bike) and to see if the outside of the chain remains
clean. If it works, I may switch to this or to Pro Link again.

The wax method does clean the chain, btw; first, there's very little dirt
that accumulates on the chain, and second, what does falls off in the
melted wax and forms a sludge on the bottom of the crockpot.

But easy as waxing is, you are right, applying Pro Link, etc to the chain
while it is on the bike, and wiping half a dozen times is easier yet.

Aside: Long ago -- 2010? -- I used White Lightning, supposed to be dry and
clean. It didn't attract sand, but it built up thick coils of grunge on the
cogs that you had to scrape off. I'm still finishing up the last 8 oz
bottle, probably a good 8-10 years old, by putting a bit on my pedals' clip
mechanism every so often; not sure it does much good ...

On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 8:10 AM James / Analog Cycles 
wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink
> as you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is
> ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and
> prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.
> It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your
> bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on
> this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.
>
> So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.
> Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works
> as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few
> minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post
> lube rim cleaning.
>
> Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to
> be fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone
> has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been
> impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very
> eco friendly to fly lube over from England.
>
> -James
>
> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and cog
>> longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and
>> cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity.
>>> Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and
>>> also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.
>>>
>>> Thoughts and suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
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> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Joel Stern]

I ride on dry Conditions only and was steered to Fastline dry lube.  I also
read about Rock and Roll gold.  For my riding are you saying Prolink, and
no degreaser?

Thanks
On Wed, Oct 7, 2020 at 10:10 AM James / Analog Cycles <
analogcyc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink
> as you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is
> ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and
> prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.
> It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your
> bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on
> this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.
>
> So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.
> Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works
> as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few
> minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post
> lube rim cleaning.
>
> Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to
> be fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone
> has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been
> impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very
> eco friendly to fly lube over from England.
>
> -James
>
> On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and cog
>> longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and
>> cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity.
>>> Actually, my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and
>>> also shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.
>>>
>>> Thoughts and suggestions?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
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>
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If you forward this email, please highlight and delete the forwarding
history, which includes my email address and maybe others. It is a courtesy
to me and others who may not wish to have their email addresses sent all
over the world. Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from obtaining
addresses, prevents viruses from being propagated, and limits the
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[James / Analog Cycles]

Hi Patrick,

By your own writing, you have the same maintenance interval with prolink as 
you do with wax.  400 miles on road, 200 off.  I'd say the difference is 
ease of use with prolink.  It's faster, and all you need is a rag and 
prolink.  It's less expensive.  It cleans the chain, which wax does not.  
It has no PTFE, which is just about the worst thing you can use on your 
bike if you are fond of the outdoors.  Ski resorts are ahead of the game on 
this, banning PTFE from ski waxes on their slopes.  

So, really, I'd recommend the same thing we use up here in the wet.  
Prolink and a rag.  I wouldn't apply the prolink sparingly, it only works 
as a cleaner if you get it dripping wet.  Let it sit for a just a few 
minutes, then wipe 95% of it off.  Done.  10 minutes, tops, with the post 
lube rim cleaning.

Obviously, everyone is gunna have their own best method.  I want mine to be 
fast, effective, affordable and relatively eco friendly.  BTW, if anyone 
has used a GOOD actual eco lube, I'm all ears.  I've tried many, been 
impressed by none.  Requirements: has to be available stateside.  Not very 
eco friendly to fly lube over from England.

-James

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and cog 
> longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and 
> cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior. 
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity. Actually, 
>> my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and also 
>> shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.
>>
>> Thoughts and suggestions?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Patrick Moore]

Sheesh: More clearly and accurately: the main criteria are: chain and cog
longevity; shifting performance; time between lubes; ease of lubing and
cleaning; and distant fourth, a clean chain exterior.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 6:44 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity. Actually,
> my rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and also
> shifting performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.
>
> Thoughts and suggestions?
>
> Thanks.
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Patrick Moore]

James: I'm curious what chain lube and what chain maintenance you would
recommend for very dusty or sandy riding conditions -- Albuquerque has
little grass on the verges and a great deal of sand even on pavement; I
ride in sand off road

I've used very many of the "dry lubes" momentarily popular between about
1990 and 2010, with sporadic tests of later ones to the present; the best
I've used (without doing any serious comparison tests) being ProLink,
Purple something or another, and currently Rock 'n' Roll "Gold" -- all of
these applied sparingly and then wiped, wiped, wiped lasting ~400 miles of
pavement and at least 200 miles of riverine silt.

But a few years ago I started using Molten Speed Wax, and this seems to be
a good compromise between ease of maintenance and length of lubrication:
~200 miles in dirt, double that on pavement; this of course in dry
conditions -- ~9" precipitation per year, max. That is twice plain old
paraffin, even with small quantities of stuff like transmission fluid and
30 weight added.

My target in all of this experimentation was to keep grit off the outside
of the chain, in the belief that this grit would wear down the cogs and
rings if not the innards of the chain.

The wax process is easy with a crockpot and master link: remover chain,
coil, and drape over wax; plug and wait for ~2 hours (depends on ambient
temp and crockpot), pluck out carefully, wipe, let cool, and install; add
drop of ProLink to masterlink. No need to clean chain after initial
cleaning.

But the main criterion is chain and cog and ring longevity. Actually, my
rings last forever, so let's say cog and chain longevity; and also shifting
performance, tho' I presently have onlhy 1 derailleur bike.

Thoughts and suggestions?

Thanks.

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 7:59 AM James / Analog Cycles 
wrote:

> As a mechanic for the last 20+ years, I'll add my two cents here.  Park
> chain cleaner boxes are a hot mess, and degreaser is bad.  We don't even
> have degreaser in the shop.  I just keep it around the house to clean up
> bacon splatters and grease stains on my pants.
>
> Here's a write up from our site on prolink, but it talks about cleaning a
> chain, how to do it, how to relube, with no box, minimal mess, no premature
> drivetrain wear:
>
> *Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean lubes
> are giving something up to be clean. Maybe it’s the need to apply to a
> completely clean chain, maybe they don’t protect against rust as well, but
> there is no free lunch. Clean lubes are not as effective at protecting your
> chain as greasy gross wet lubes.  Is the ball joint of your car clean? Heck
> no, it’s horrible, covered in a goopy mess of black grease. You don’t see
> them using ‘clean’ or clear grease in there.*
>
> *Prolink makes a good really thin chain lube.  It’s like WD-40, but for
> bikes. WD-40 has a whole bunch of solvents in it.  These help break down
> rust and flush out thicker lubes. When the solvents dry, there is a bit of
> lube in the WD-40.  Not enough to actually do a good job lubing a chain,
> but enough to keep a door hinge swinging freely. Prolink is similar, but it
> has a higher lube content.  Still a ton of solvents, but more lube. That
> means Prolink is a great lube to clean your chain with. What??!*
>
> *Cleaning your chain with degreaser is bonkers.  If the degreaser is
> strong enough to break down the old chain lube, guess what, it’s strong
> enough to keep the fresh stuff from getting in.  Sure, you can flush the
> chain with water, after degreasing it, then use a combo of time and an air
> compressor to blow the water out of the chain.  Me, I don’t like to use an
> air compressor on a chain. Not only is it hard on our generator, but it
> also flings black water all over the place, including but not limited such
> places as your rims, tan sidewalls and disc rotors.  Just air drying a
> chain could take over a day. I don’t have time for that. I have firewood to
> process. If you clean your chain with prolink, you flush two things outta
> the chain: grit (composed of road grit and bits of your chain) and old
> lube.  *
>
> *Continue on for more True Facts about Chain Lube:*
>
> *Analog’s Cardinal Rules of Chain Lube:*
>
>- *Chain lube (or anything really) should NOT have PTFE in it.  Why
>not? It’s exceptionally bad for the environment.
>
> 
>  Actually
>it’s inordinately bad for everything.  *
>- *Chain lube should not cost an arm and a leg.  Even our favorite
>lubes really, should be cheaper.  I wish we found a cheap, good, bio lube
>that we could sell.  But as it is, the two lubes we offer are pretty cheap,
>in the scheme of things.*
>- *Chain lube shouldn’t have wax in it.  It clumps, esp in cold
>weather. *
>- *Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean
>lubes are giving something up to be 

Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[ascpgh]

Thanks for that perspective compendium James. Much of what becomes 
contentious about various lubes does focus on a very narrow aspect of its 
function (or impact) and environment of use.  Props for the article too. 
Time remains the most powerful legal tool.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Sunday, October 4, 2020 at 9:59:28 AM UTC-4 James / Analog Cycles wrote:

> As a mechanic for the last 20+ years, I'll add my two cents here.  Park 
> chain cleaner boxes are a hot mess, and degreaser is bad.  We don't even 
> have degreaser in the shop.  I just keep it around the house to clean up 
> bacon splatters and grease stains on my pants.  
>
> Here's a write up from our site on prolink, but it talks about cleaning a 
> chain, how to do it, how to relube, with no box, minimal mess, no premature 
> drivetrain wear:
>
> *Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean lubes 
> are giving something up to be clean. Maybe it’s the need to apply to a 
> completely clean chain, maybe they don’t protect against rust as well, but 
> there is no free lunch. Clean lubes are not as effective at protecting your 
> chain as greasy gross wet lubes.  Is the ball joint of your car clean? Heck 
> no, it’s horrible, covered in a goopy mess of black grease. You don’t see 
> them using ‘clean’ or clear grease in there.*
>
> *Prolink makes a good really thin chain lube.  It’s like WD-40, but for 
> bikes. WD-40 has a whole bunch of solvents in it.  These help break down 
> rust and flush out thicker lubes. When the solvents dry, there is a bit of 
> lube in the WD-40.  Not enough to actually do a good job lubing a chain, 
> but enough to keep a door hinge swinging freely. Prolink is similar, but it 
> has a higher lube content.  Still a ton of solvents, but more lube. That 
> means Prolink is a great lube to clean your chain with. What??!*
>
> *Cleaning your chain with degreaser is bonkers.  If the degreaser is 
> strong enough to break down the old chain lube, guess what, it’s strong 
> enough to keep the fresh stuff from getting in.  Sure, you can flush the 
> chain with water, after degreasing it, then use a combo of time and an air 
> compressor to blow the water out of the chain.  Me, I don’t like to use an 
> air compressor on a chain. Not only is it hard on our generator, but it 
> also flings black water all over the place, including but not limited such 
> places as your rims, tan sidewalls and disc rotors.  Just air drying a 
> chain could take over a day. I don’t have time for that. I have firewood to 
> process. If you clean your chain with prolink, you flush two things outta 
> the chain: grit (composed of road grit and bits of your chain) and old 
> lube.  *
>
> *Continue on for more True Facts about Chain Lube:*
>
> *Analog’s Cardinal Rules of Chain Lube:*
>
>- *Chain lube (or anything really) should NOT have PTFE in it.  Why 
>not? It’s exceptionally bad for the environment. 
>
> 
>  Actually 
>it’s inordinately bad for everything.  * 
>- *Chain lube should not cost an arm and a leg.  Even our favorite 
>lubes really, should be cheaper.  I wish we found a cheap, good, bio lube 
>that we could sell.  But as it is, the two lubes we offer are pretty 
> cheap, 
>in the scheme of things.* 
>- *Chain lube shouldn’t have wax in it.  It clumps, esp in cold 
>weather. * 
>- *Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean 
>lubes are giving something up to be clean. Maybe it’s the need to apply to 
>a completely clean chain, maybe they don’t protect against rust as well, 
>but there is no free lunch. Clean lubes are not as effective at protecting 
>your chain as greasy gross wet lubes.  Is the ball joint of your car 
> clean? 
>Heck no, it’s horrible, covered in a goopy mess of black grease. You don’t 
>see them using ‘clean’ or clear grease in there.* 
>- *Chain lube should be easy on, and relatively easy off.  You 
>shouldn’t have to take your chain off, or scrub your cassette, or take a 
>dental pick to your derailleur pulleys every time you wanna lube your 
>chain.  If your chain isn’t horrendously gross looking, you should be able 
>to just add a bit more lube and keep going. If it’s really bad, you should 
>be able to clean it, with a rag, while on the bike.  If you can’t, you 
> have 
>the wrong lube.* 
>- *Ideally, chain lube should be sticky enough to last for a few weeks 
>of riding in whatever conditions you like to ride in.  So in the winter, 
>your lube should be heavier and stickier, and in the dry of summer, it can 
>be thinner, if it’s not all rainy and muddy out.  * 
>- *That’s it.  * 
>
> *The process is super simple:  Shift into the big ring up front and the 
> hardest gear in the back.  Apply Prolink generously, so that when you stop 
> pedaling, it’s dripping on 

Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[James / Analog Cycles]

As a mechanic for the last 20+ years, I'll add my two cents here.  Park 
chain cleaner boxes are a hot mess, and degreaser is bad.  We don't even 
have degreaser in the shop.  I just keep it around the house to clean up 
bacon splatters and grease stains on my pants.  

Here's a write up from our site on prolink, but it talks about cleaning a 
chain, how to do it, how to relube, with no box, minimal mess, no premature 
drivetrain wear:

*Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean lubes 
are giving something up to be clean. Maybe it’s the need to apply to a 
completely clean chain, maybe they don’t protect against rust as well, but 
there is no free lunch. Clean lubes are not as effective at protecting your 
chain as greasy gross wet lubes.  Is the ball joint of your car clean? Heck 
no, it’s horrible, covered in a goopy mess of black grease. You don’t see 
them using ‘clean’ or clear grease in there.*

*Prolink makes a good really thin chain lube.  It’s like WD-40, but for 
bikes. WD-40 has a whole bunch of solvents in it.  These help break down 
rust and flush out thicker lubes. When the solvents dry, there is a bit of 
lube in the WD-40.  Not enough to actually do a good job lubing a chain, 
but enough to keep a door hinge swinging freely. Prolink is similar, but it 
has a higher lube content.  Still a ton of solvents, but more lube. That 
means Prolink is a great lube to clean your chain with. What??!*

*Cleaning your chain with degreaser is bonkers.  If the degreaser is strong 
enough to break down the old chain lube, guess what, it’s strong enough to 
keep the fresh stuff from getting in.  Sure, you can flush the chain with 
water, after degreasing it, then use a combo of time and an air compressor 
to blow the water out of the chain.  Me, I don’t like to use an air 
compressor on a chain. Not only is it hard on our generator, but it also 
flings black water all over the place, including but not limited such 
places as your rims, tan sidewalls and disc rotors.  Just air drying a 
chain could take over a day. I don’t have time for that. I have firewood to 
process. If you clean your chain with prolink, you flush two things outta 
the chain: grit (composed of road grit and bits of your chain) and old 
lube.  *

*Continue on for more True Facts about Chain Lube:*

*Analog’s Cardinal Rules of Chain Lube:*

   - *Chain lube (or anything really) should NOT have PTFE in it.  Why not? 
   It’s exceptionally bad for the environment. 
   

 Actually 
   it’s inordinately bad for everything.  * 
   - *Chain lube should not cost an arm and a leg.  Even our favorite lubes 
   really, should be cheaper.  I wish we found a cheap, good, bio lube that we 
   could sell.  But as it is, the two lubes we offer are pretty cheap, in the 
   scheme of things.* 
   - *Chain lube shouldn’t have wax in it.  It clumps, esp in cold 
   weather. * 
   - *Chain lube should keep your chain lubed, not looking nice.  Clean 
   lubes are giving something up to be clean. Maybe it’s the need to apply to 
   a completely clean chain, maybe they don’t protect against rust as well, 
   but there is no free lunch. Clean lubes are not as effective at protecting 
   your chain as greasy gross wet lubes.  Is the ball joint of your car clean? 
   Heck no, it’s horrible, covered in a goopy mess of black grease. You don’t 
   see them using ‘clean’ or clear grease in there.* 
   - *Chain lube should be easy on, and relatively easy off.  You shouldn’t 
   have to take your chain off, or scrub your cassette, or take a dental pick 
   to your derailleur pulleys every time you wanna lube your chain.  If your 
   chain isn’t horrendously gross looking, you should be able to just add a 
   bit more lube and keep going. If it’s really bad, you should be able to 
   clean it, with a rag, while on the bike.  If you can’t, you have the wrong 
   lube.* 
   - *Ideally, chain lube should be sticky enough to last for a few weeks 
   of riding in whatever conditions you like to ride in.  So in the winter, 
   your lube should be heavier and stickier, and in the dry of summer, it can 
   be thinner, if it’s not all rainy and muddy out.  * 
   - *That’s it.  * 

*The process is super simple:  Shift into the big ring up front and the 
hardest gear in the back.  Apply Prolink generously, so that when you stop 
pedaling, it’s dripping on the floor.  Do something else for a few minutes. 
For instance, buy a water bottle from us.  Then mosey back over.  The 
solvent has done its thing.  Take a dry T shirt, preferably your roommates, 
and drag the chain through it, holding the chain very loosely in a bundle 
of shirt.  You can do this on the upper run of chain or the lower. I don’t 
care, just don’t get your fingers caught in the chainrings. Pedal backward. 
 Keep flipping the shirt to a fresh spot of cotton and keep wiping. Do this 
routine until 

Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Ray.  I ordered some the other day but always good to get another
endorsement.

Joel
On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 6:10 PM Ray Varella  wrote:

>
> I also use simple green.
> I use diesel fuel for my parts cleaning. I find it works very well as a
> solvent and even if you leave it uncovered, the evaporation rate is
> extremely slow.
>
> Back to simple green, you can adjust the ratio of cleaner to water if you
> buy the concentrate.
>
> Here’s my endorsement: I drive rigs and occasionally someone will drag the
> air lines and power cord across the 5th wheel skid plate.
> These skid plates are covered with the thickest, dirtiest most tenacious
> grease you’ve ever gotten on yourself.
> A couple applications of simple green and a shop rag will wipe away a
> thick coating of this greasy mess.
> No part on any bicycle will ever accumulate this sort of grease.
> It’s also safe to use on many other household chores.
>
> Ray
> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:38:24 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:
>>
>> I used the finish line product but it goes very fast, then greased with
>> finis line.  Have hear talk of using a citrus based product.  Will use with
>> the park chain cleaning tank.  Any recommendations?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Joel
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Ray Varella]

I also use simple green. 
I use diesel fuel for my parts cleaning. I find it works very well as a 
solvent and even if you leave it uncovered, the evaporation rate is 
extremely slow. 

Back to simple green, you can adjust the ratio of cleaner to water if you 
buy the concentrate. 

Here’s my endorsement: I drive rigs and occasionally someone will drag the 
air lines and power cord across the 5th wheel skid plate. 
These skid plates are covered with the thickest, dirtiest most tenacious 
grease you’ve ever gotten on yourself. 
A couple applications of simple green and a shop rag will wipe away a thick 
coating of this greasy mess. 
No part on any bicycle will ever accumulate this sort of grease. 
It’s also safe to use on many other household chores. 

Ray
On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:38:24 AM UTC-7, Joel S wrote:
>
> I used the finish line product but it goes very fast, then greased with 
> finis line.  Have hear talk of using a citrus based product.  Will use with 
> the park chain cleaning tank.  Any recommendations?
>
> Thank you
>
> Joel 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Tim Quinlan]

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:52 PM Ray  wrote:

> Simple Green. It might be my favorite product of any variety ever period.
> It's like magic.
>

Also works great as a laundry pre-treatment for greasy clothes.

Tim, Pittsburgh, PA, USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Joel Stern]

Thanks aeroperf.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 3:19 PM aeroperf  wrote:

>
> What Ray said - Simple Green.  It works in my chain cleaner, is easily
> available, and cheap.
> Finish Line is another citrus based product, but pricey.
>
> I've stayed away from Purple Power since the manufacturer says:
> "Purple Power is not recommended for use when washing cars as it could
>
> possibly destroy the clear coat surface and damage the paint."
> "Do not use Purple Power on Stainless Steel or Aluminum as it could leave
>
> white streaks or a hazy film. If accidentally used on Stainless Steel
>
> or Aluminum and you have this residue, try buffing with a Metal Polish,
>
> such as Wenols or Mothers Metal Polish to restore finish."
> "Purple Power is not recommended for use on Chrome or Copper.  Chrome can
> become etched and will be permanently damaged."
>
> Since my Sam has painted surfaces, aluminum chainrings, and some chrome
> bits, I'll stick with Simple Green.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Benz.  Basically just to keep the chain clean, especially after
season for winter storage.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 2:01 PM Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA <
benzouy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:38:24 AM UTC-7 Joel S wrote:
>
>> I used the finish line product but it goes very fast, then greased with
>> finis line.  Have hear talk of using a citrus based product.  Will use with
>> the park chain cleaning tank.  Any recommendations?
>
>
> Finish Line citrus degreaser is one of the strongest degreasers I've tried
> outside of industrial degreasers. If you require its full degreasing power,
> you'll find that the popular alternatives like Simple Green probably won't
> work as well. In between Simple Green and Finish Line citrus degreaser are
> the automotive degreasers. I find full-strength Purple Power to be
> sufficiently powerful enough to easily degrease chains and chainrings. It's
> also remarkably inexpensive, with gallon jugs selling for about $5 at
> Walmart.
>
> If you still want to continue with citrus degreaser, try buying in bulk
> from non-bicycle sources. They're usually sold as "100% D-Limonene" for
> much less than $14/20oz.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Joel Stern]

Thanks Ray.


On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 1:52 PM Ray  wrote:

> Simple Green. It might be my favorite product of any variety ever period.
> It's like magic.
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 12:38:24 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>
>> I used the finish line product but it goes very fast, then greased with
>> finis line.  Have hear talk of using a citrus based product.  Will use with
>> the park chain cleaning tank.  Any recommendations?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Joel
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[aeroperf]

What Ray said - Simple Green.  It works in my chain cleaner, is easily 
available, and cheap.
Finish Line is another citrus based product, but pricey.

I've stayed away from Purple Power since the manufacturer says:
"Purple Power is not recommended for use when washing cars as it could 
possibly destroy the clear coat surface and damage the paint."
"Do not use Purple Power on Stainless Steel or Aluminum as it could leave 
white streaks or a hazy film. If accidentally used on Stainless Steel or 
Aluminum and you have this residue, try buffing with a Metal Polish, such 
as Wenols or Mothers Metal Polish to restore finish."
"Purple Power is not recommended for use on Chrome or Copper.  Chrome can 
become etched and will be permanently damaged."

Since my Sam has painted surfaces, aluminum chainrings, and some chrome 
bits, I'll stick with Simple Green.

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[RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

['Tom M' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm a big fan of the El Duke degreaser Rivendell sells. Works amazingly 
well. Silca sells these gear wipes 
(https://silca.cc/collections/workbench/products/hirobel-gear-wipes-canister-110-sheets)
 
I've taken to using on our bikes after wet rides. One towel will pretty 
much clean a whole bike, though maybe not the chain or cassette. Saves the 
need to use an old T-shirt and a separate degreaser.
Tom Milani
Alexandria, VA

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 1:52:01 PM UTC-4, Ray wrote:
>
> Simple Green. It might be my favorite product of any variety ever period. 
> It's like magic.
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 12:38:24 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:
>
>> I used the finish line product but it goes very fast, then greased with 
>> finis line.  Have hear talk of using a citrus based product.  Will use with 
>> the park chain cleaning tank.  Any recommendations?
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> Joel 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Benz Ouyang, Sunnyvale, CA]

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 10:38:24 AM UTC-7 Joel S wrote:

> I used the finish line product but it goes very fast, then greased with 
> finis line.  Have hear talk of using a citrus based product.  Will use with 
> the park chain cleaning tank.  Any recommendations?


Finish Line citrus degreaser is one of the strongest degreasers I've tried 
outside of industrial degreasers. If you require its full degreasing power, 
you'll find that the popular alternatives like Simple Green probably won't 
work as well. In between Simple Green and Finish Line citrus degreaser are 
the automotive degreasers. I find full-strength Purple Power to be 
sufficiently powerful enough to easily degrease chains and chainrings. It's 
also remarkably inexpensive, with gallon jugs selling for about $5 at 
Walmart.

If you still want to continue with citrus degreaser, try buying in bulk 
from non-bicycle sources. They're usually sold as "100% D-Limonene" for 
much less than $14/20oz.

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[RBW] Re: Any particular grease cleaner you would recommend!

[Ray]

Simple Green. It might be my favorite product of any variety ever period. 
It's like magic.

On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 12:38:24 PM UTC-5 Joel S wrote:

> I used the finish line product but it goes very fast, then greased with 
> finis line.  Have hear talk of using a citrus based product.  Will use with 
> the park chain cleaning tank.  Any recommendations?
>
> Thank you
>
> Joel 
>

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