Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
I've seen alot broken cables in STI shifters for years, sometimes resulting in the need for a new brifter. Jim (in icy Madison, WI been wrenching for 25+ years) On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:28:32 PM UTC-6, Brewster Fong wrote: On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:20:23 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: We're seeing a lot of broken right hand shift cables these days: there's some sort of fatigue point inside many Shimano STI units. But when the cable breaks, it's always at the shifter. Yup, it appears that ever since Shimano decided to put their cabling under the handlebar tape, there's been problems with the head of the shifter cable breaking inside the STI lever: http://jimlangley.blogspot.com/2007/09/q-cable-stuck-inside-shimano-sti.html This didn't seem to happen when Shimano had their STI cables outside of the handlebar tape. That leaves lots of perfectly good cable attached to the rear derailleur. So unscrew the bolts on a water bottle cage. With your thumb push the rear derailleur in so that the chain lines up with a sprocket that will give you a couple of usable gears on your two chain rings, and put tension on the derailleur cable to hold it in place. Catch the cable under the water bottle cage and screw the bolts back down to hold the tension. Great advice! Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:20:23 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote: So unscrew the bolts on a water bottle cage. With your thumb push the rear derailleur in so that the chain lines up with a sprocket that will give you a couple of usable gears on your two chain rings, and put tension on the derailleur cable to hold it in place. Catch the cable under the water bottle cage and screw the bolts back down to hold the tension. Ok, I know we're supposed to let this thread die, but, dang, that's ingenious. Brilliant. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
RE: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Everyone on that ride has adhered to the oath of secrecy, but I guess I'm free to describe my own stupidity, and the incredible good fortune that saved us at least 50 miles of extra riding on Day 1 of Riv Rally East 2012. The stupidity part: 1. Knowing my son Hank, who was riding a long ride for the first time, didn't have anything approaching an appropriate bike, I built up a SimpleOne frame for him the night before the ride began. 2. As a result, we had no opportunity to test ride the bike. 3. On the GAP trail, at least 20 miles from any bike shop, Hank said, My left pedal seems wobbly. 4. We stopped, I began to examine the pedal, and the left crank arm fell off in my hand... 5. ...because the crank bolt, which I had in my haste the night before apparently failed to tighten, had fallen out -- not in situ, but somewhere back along the 20 miles we had just covered. The luck is not always the residue of design part: 1. At Hank's suggestion, we started walking back down the trail in the direction we'd come from (with me muttering that it was a stupid idea), and actually found the crank bolt lying on the ground about 1/2 mile up the trail. Eureka! Except... 2. ...my tools did not include the necessary Allen wrench required to reinstall the crank bolt. 3. No problem! Just as we arrived back at the wounded bike, a convoy of Boy Scouts on bikes pedaled by, with their leader at the rear. Seeing our distress, he stopped, was told the problem, and volunteered that he had a full toolkit, including a variety of crank-related wrenches. He found the right one, we used it on our miraculously recovered crank bolt, and -- voilà -- we were on our way. I still recall Steve P shaking his head that night at dinner at the dumb luck of some people. But I now (a) tighten every bolt on my bike(s) before leaving on a long ride, and (b) always have a crank bolt wrench in my toolkit. Live and learn. -Original Message- From: Steve Palincsar [mailto:palin...@his.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:53 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Cc: Allingham II, Thomas J (WIL) Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole On 12/18/2013 04:22 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Noted. Thank goodness spokes, 1/4 ball bearings and crank extractors do grow on trees. At least Mother Nature provides for us some of what we need. ROTFL! Apropos of Mother Nature providing, ask Thomas Allingham about crank bolts on the GAP. I'm not sure the story's been told here, and so, it certainly bears repetition. -- To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Always be prepared On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 5:00 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J thomas.alling...@skadden.com wrote: Everyone on that ride has adhered to the oath of secrecy, but I guess I'm free to describe my own stupidity, and the incredible good fortune that saved us at least 50 miles of extra riding on Day 1 of Riv Rally East 2012. The stupidity part: 1. Knowing my son Hank, who was riding a long ride for the first time, didn't have anything approaching an appropriate bike, I built up a SimpleOne frame for him *the night before** the ride began.* 2. As a result, we had no opportunity to test ride the bike. 3. On the GAP trail, at least 20 miles from any bike shop, Hank said, My left pedal seems wobbly. 4. We stopped, I began to examine the pedal, and the left crank arm fell off in my hand… 5. …because the crank bolt, which I had in my haste the night before apparently failed to tighten, had fallen out -- not *in situ*, but somewhere back along the 20 miles we had just covered. The luck is not *always* the residue of design part: 1. At Hank's suggestion, we started walking back down the trail in the direction we'd come from (with me muttering that it was a stupid idea), and actually found the crank bolt lying on the ground about 1/2 mile up the trail. Eureka! Except… 2. …my tools did not include the necessary Allen wrench required to reinstall the crank bolt. 3. No problem! Just as we arrived back at the wounded bike, a convoy of Boy Scouts on bikes pedaled by, with their leader at the rear. Seeing our distress, he stopped, was told the problem, and volunteered that he had a full toolkit, including a variety of crank-related wrenches. He found the right one, we used it on our miraculously recovered crank bolt, and -- voilà -- we were on our way. I still recall Steve P shaking his head that night at dinner at the dumb luck of some people. But I now (a) tighten every bolt on my bike(s) before leaving on a long ride, and (b) always have a crank bolt wrench in my toolkit. Live and learn. -Original Message- From: Steve Palincsar [mailto:palin...@his.com palin...@his.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:53 PM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Cc: Allingham II, Thomas J (WIL) Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole On 12/18/2013 04:22 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Noted. Thank goodness spokes, 1/4 ball bearings and crank extractors do grow on trees. At least Mother Nature provides for us some of what we need. ROTFL! Apropos of Mother Nature providing, ask Thomas Allingham about crank bolts on the GAP. I'm not sure the story's been told here, and so, it certainly bears repetition. -- To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein. This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any email) and any printout thereof. Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their professional qualifications will be provided upon request. == -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On 12/19/2013 05:00 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J wrote: Everyone on that ride has adhered to the oath of secrecy, but I guess I'm free to describe my own stupidity, and the incredible good fortune that saved us at least 50 miles of extra riding on Day 1 of Riv Rally East 2012. The stupidity part: 1. Knowing my son Hank, who was riding a long ride for the first time, didn't have anything approaching an appropriate bike, I built up a SimpleOne frame for him */the night before/**/the ride began./* 2. As a result, we had no opportunity to test ride the bike. 3. On the GAP trail, at least 20 miles from any bike shop, Hank said, My left pedal seems wobbly. 4. We stopped, I began to examine the pedal, and the left crank arm fell off in my hand... 5. ...because the crank bolt, which I had in my haste the night before apparently failed to tighten, had fallen out -- not /in situ/, but somewhere back along the 20 miles we had just covered. The luck is not */always/* the residue of design part: 1. At Hank's suggestion, we started walking back down the trail in the direction we'd come from (with me muttering that it was a stupid idea), and actually found the crank bolt lying on the ground about 1/2 mile up the trail. Eureka! Except... 2. ...my tools did not include the necessary Allen wrench required to reinstall the crank bolt. 3. No problem! Just as we arrived back at the wounded bike, a convoy of Boy Scouts on bikes pedaled by, with their leader at the rear. Seeing our distress, he stopped, was told the problem, and volunteered that he had a full toolkit, including a variety of crank-related wrenches. He found the right one, we used it on our miraculously recovered crank bolt, and -- voilà -- we were on our way. I still recall Steve P shaking his head that night at dinner at the dumb luck of some people. A Guardian Angel was certainly on the job looking out for you that day. A thousand million of us could replicate that situation and I doubt a one of them would find both the bolt and someone with the right tools, as though to order. I marveled with amazement then, and I still do. Talk about nature providing! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 6:08:08 PM UTC-8, Liesl wrote: On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:56:36 AM UTC-6, Cecily Walker wrote: What about female retrogrouches? Do we just let our leg hair grow out? :-D Already done! And I'm puttin' corn rows down my shins! :) I have some beads you can borrow, if you want to go for that Venus Williams in the early years look. :-D -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
and what's with electronic shifting? On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:12:06 PM UTC-6, RJM wrote: Disks on roadbikes is going to be an awful fad. On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:56:56 PM UTC-6, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Many cyclists' brakes are failing and more will unless they hear of this recall. There is no reason to dance here. There is every reason to help get the word out. With abandon, Patrick On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 8:56:56 PM UTC-7, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
What about female retrogrouches? Do we just let our leg hair grow out? :-D On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:56:56 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
What about female retrogrouches? Do we just let our leg hair grow out? :-D Well sure1 Why not ;) Of course I do not ride at speeds some other cyclists do, but my two bikes, one with braze-on center pulls the other with dual pivot side pulls both stop so well I just do not understand the push to add the complexity inherent with hydraulic brakes. I could see pushing to make rim brakes and cables lighter or prettier or what not. Just don't understand the all out push to eliminate altogether. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
a tandem is the one place a rear disc is a big advantage. Long descents on a tandem with rim brakes can heat the wheel enough to blow out a tire. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 8:24:50 AM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote: What about female retrogrouches? Do we just let our leg hair grow out? :-D Well sure1 Why not ;) Of course I do not ride at speeds some other cyclists do, but my two bikes, one with braze-on center pulls the other with dual pivot side pulls both stop so well I just do not understand the push to add the complexity inherent with hydraulic brakes. I could see pushing to make rim brakes and cables lighter or prettier or what not. Just don't understand the all out push to eliminate altogether. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Snow or mud in joyous amounts are the only other reasons I can think of for disk brakes. Should I get a Surly 29er+ or fatter, I'll likely go with cable disk brakes for those two reasons so I simply don't have to worry about it. With abandon, Patrick On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:30:48 AM UTC-7, Ron Mc wrote: a tandem is the one place a rear disc is a big advantage. Long descents on a tandem with rim brakes can heat the wheel enough to blow out a tire. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 8:24:50 AM UTC-6, Matthew J wrote: What about female retrogrouches? Do we just let our leg hair grow out? :-D Well sure1 Why not ;) Of course I do not ride at speeds some other cyclists do, but my two bikes, one with braze-on center pulls the other with dual pivot side pulls both stop so well I just do not understand the push to add the complexity inherent with hydraulic brakes. I could see pushing to make rim brakes and cables lighter or prettier or what not. Just don't understand the all out push to eliminate altogether. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
and now they have disc brakes On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 8:53:25 AM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 12/18/2013 09:30 AM, Ron Mc wrote: a tandem is the one place a rear disc is a big advantage. Long descents on a tandem with rim brakes can heat the wheel enough to blow out a tire. And back in the day, tandems had a drum brake on the rear wheel for just that purpose -- a purpose for which, some have said, disk brakes are unsuitable. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Disclaimer: I admit I'm a slightly over-zealous, biased proponent of hydraulic disc brakes, so please take this as nothing more than absolute truth :). I'm sure SRAM will solve whatever problem is plaguing these particular disc brakes, but I have to say in the last 10 years of riding in sub-freezing weather on hydraulic discs without a single failure, I have only experienced superior performance and reliability with hydraulic discs under severe conditions. Look, we all know rim brakes (under the right conditions) are a time-tested, simple and reliable technology, BUT can be subject to all kinds of rim variables and conditions that can affect their reliabilty... (e.g. muck, wet, snow ice that collects on the rims, misaligned pads, poor lever/cable setup, trueness of rim, etc.). Disc brakes are generally not impacted by these same rim conditions (other than poor setup/adjustment... which still leads to lousy braking regardless). Cable-actuated disc brakes are less-impacted by mud, muck and ice, but still have moving, semi-exposed cables, calipers and springs that can really stiffen up in cold weather. Hydraulic disc brakes are less-impacted by mud, much and ice, and are mostly sealed to the elements. Besides the plunger at the lever and the pistons, fluid (in a sealed environment) is the only thing moving. Just like automobile brakes and heavy equipment hydraulics, hydraulic brakes on bikes are designed to function reliably in extreme conditions. And anyone who claims hydraulic brake lines can't easily be fixed out in the wilds just hasn't done it, that's all. It's not rocket science. In fact if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes... but then again there's also a very high probability I'd never need to use it. Like em or not, it takes a much stronger case to bash hydraulic disc brakes.Hydraulic rim brakes? Sorry, can't argue that one... End of rant. BB On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:56:56 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Look, we all know rim brakes (under the right conditions) are a time-tested, simple and reliable technology, BUT can be subject to all kinds of rim variables and conditions that can affect their reliabilty... (e.g. muck, wet, snow ice that collects on the rims, misaligned pads, poor lever/cable setup, trueness of rim, etc.). But that BUT is a big but ;) Provided you have otherwise set up and maintain your rim brake equipped bike well, the problems you site are wholly manageable. It will be interesting to see if SRAM is able to resolve its issues. As I understand the SRAM dilemma is a result of trying to work a hydraulic disc system for road riding that does not require the beefier forks and chain stays which are fine on MTBs but take away from some of the pleasures of road riding. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:28:25 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote: Disclaimer: I admit I'm a slightly over-zealous, biased proponent of hydraulic disc brakes, so please take this as nothing more than absolute truth :). I'm sure SRAM will solve whatever problem is plaguing these particular disc brakes, but I have to say in the last 10 years of riding in sub-freezing weather on hydraulic discs without a single failure, I have only experienced superior performance and reliability with hydraulic discs under severe conditions. Look, we all know rim brakes (under the right conditions) are a time-tested, simple and reliable technology, BUT can be subject to all kinds of rim variables and conditions that can affect their reliabilty... (e.g. muck, wet, snow ice that collects on the rims, misaligned pads, poor lever/cable setup, trueness of rim, etc.). Disc brakes are generally not impacted by these same rim conditions (other than poor setup/adjustment... which still leads to lousy braking regardless). Cable-actuated disc brakes are less-impacted by mud, muck and ice, but still have moving, semi-exposed cables, calipers and springs that can really stiffen up in cold weather. Hydraulic disc brakes are less-impacted by mud, much and ice, and are mostly sealed to the elements. Besides the plunger at the lever and the pistons, fluid (in a sealed environment) is the only thing moving. Just like automobile brakes and heavy equipment hydraulics, hydraulic brakes on bikes are designed to function reliably in extreme conditions. And anyone who claims hydraulic brake lines can't easily be fixed out in the wilds just hasn't done it, that's all. It's not rocket science. In fact if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes... but then again there's also a very high probability I'd never need to use it. Like em or not, it takes a much stronger case to bash hydraulic disc brakes.Hydraulic rim brakes? Sorry, can't argue that one... End of rant. BB On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:56:56 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Well said Bobby. The crux of this particular problem is that SRAM seems to have rushed it's product to market in order to compete with Shimano and meet market expectations. In doing so SRAM seems to have neglected to do enough RD on the redesign of the road versions of their hydro calipers. It always baffles me that companies would rather deal with warranties and recalls rather than make sure the products were correctly designed and speced, even if it means they come to market a bit later than the competitors. Though if they had waited longer they would most likely have missed the opportunity to sell their components to bike manufactures who have speced them on their 2014 and 2015 models. Again, it still baffles me that SRAM chooses to operate under the quick to market but with good warranty service model. In my opinion quality of product should be paramount which will help drive sales in the long term. Such is capitalism though. I've grown tired of razzing my friends who have discs on their steel cross bikes, which is too bad because I took such a perverse pleasure in doing so. It should be noted though that none of them run SRAM hydros, and they are all much more skilled and experienced riders than I. Gabe -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
How you you manage mud, muck, snow, and ice on your rim brakes, Matthew? With abandon, Patrick On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:59:32 AM UTC-7, Matthew J wrote: Look, we all know rim brakes (under the right conditions) are a time-tested, simple and reliable technology, BUT can be subject to all kinds of rim variables and conditions that can affect their reliabilty... (e.g. muck, wet, snow ice that collects on the rims, misaligned pads, poor lever/cable setup, trueness of rim, etc.). But that BUT is a big but ;) Provided you have otherwise set up and maintain your rim brake equipped bike well, the problems you site are wholly manageable. It will be interesting to see if SRAM is able to resolve its issues. As I understand the SRAM dilemma is a result of trying to work a hydraulic disc system for road riding that does not require the beefier forks and chain stays which are fine on MTBs but take away from some of the pleasures of road riding. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:28:25 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote: Disclaimer: I admit I'm a slightly over-zealous, biased proponent of hydraulic disc brakes, so please take this as nothing more than absolute truth :). I'm sure SRAM will solve whatever problem is plaguing these particular disc brakes, but I have to say in the last 10 years of riding in sub-freezing weather on hydraulic discs without a single failure, I have only experienced superior performance and reliability with hydraulic discs under severe conditions. Look, we all know rim brakes (under the right conditions) are a time-tested, simple and reliable technology, BUT can be subject to all kinds of rim variables and conditions that can affect their reliabilty... (e.g. muck, wet, snow ice that collects on the rims, misaligned pads, poor lever/cable setup, trueness of rim, etc.). Disc brakes are generally not impacted by these same rim conditions (other than poor setup/adjustment... which still leads to lousy braking regardless). Cable-actuated disc brakes are less-impacted by mud, muck and ice, but still have moving, semi-exposed cables, calipers and springs that can really stiffen up in cold weather. Hydraulic disc brakes are less-impacted by mud, much and ice, and are mostly sealed to the elements. Besides the plunger at the lever and the pistons, fluid (in a sealed environment) is the only thing moving. Just like automobile brakes and heavy equipment hydraulics, hydraulic brakes on bikes are designed to function reliably in extreme conditions. And anyone who claims hydraulic brake lines can't easily be fixed out in the wilds just hasn't done it, that's all. It's not rocket science. In fact if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes... but then again there's also a very high probability I'd never need to use it. Like em or not, it takes a much stronger case to bash hydraulic disc brakes.Hydraulic rim brakes? Sorry, can't argue that one... End of rant. BB On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:56:56 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On 12/18/2013 01:10 PM, oldmangabe wrote: The crux of this particular problem is that SRAM seems to have rushed it's product to market in order to compete with Shimano and meet market expectations. In doing so SRAM seems to have neglected to do enough RD on the redesign of the road versions of their hydro calipers. It always baffles me that companies would rather deal with warranties and recalls rather than make sure the products were correctly designed and speced, even if it means they come to market a bit later than the competitors. Didn't NASA have a similar problem with O-rings with the Space Shuttle? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On 12/18/2013 11:28 AM, Montclair BobbyB wrote: And anyone who claims hydraulic brake lines can't easily be fixed out in the wilds just hasn't done it, that's all. It's not rocket science. In fact if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes... but then again there's also a very high probability I'd never need to use it. Where do you get the proper hydraulic fluid out in the wild? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On 12/18/2013 10:34 AM, Ron Mc wrote: and now they have disc brakes As I said, I've heard that disk brakes are unsuitable for drag brake use on a tandem. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Richard Feynman has not written up his report on the SRAM issue. Also, thusfar, the SRAM issue has vaporized zero brave American Astronauts, so I would call those two problems not similar On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:28:08 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 12/18/2013 01:10 PM, oldmangabe wrote: The crux of this particular problem is that SRAM seems to have rushed it's product to market in order to compete with Shimano and meet market expectations. In doing so SRAM seems to have neglected to do enough RD on the redesign of the road versions of their hydro calipers. It always baffles me that companies would rather deal with warranties and recalls rather than make sure the products were correctly designed and speced, even if it means they come to market a bit later than the competitors. Didn't NASA have a similar problem with O-rings with the Space Shuttle? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On 12/18/2013 01:38 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Richard Feynman has not written up his report on the SRAM issue. Also, thusfar, the SRAM issue has vaporized zero brave American Astronauts, so I would call those two problems not similar Consequences are not similar but O ring fails in cold weather certainly does sound similar to me... On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:28:08 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 12/18/2013 01:10 PM, oldmangabe wrote: The crux of this particular problem is that SRAM seems to have rushed it's product to market in order to compete with Shimano and meet market expectations. In doing so SRAM seems to have neglected to do enough RD on the redesign of the road versions of their hydro calipers. It always baffles me that companies would rather deal with warranties and recalls rather than make sure the products were correctly designed and speced, even if it means they come to market a bit later than the competitors. Didn't NASA have a similar problem with O-rings with the Space Shuttle? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Soft seals can lose flexibility at low temperature, something you would expect a company in Chicago to know. One would expect they would have simply used similar seals as used in motor vehicle brakes. dougP On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:56:56 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
How you you manage mud, muck, snow, and ice on your rim brakes, Matthew? There are really only a few days out of the year where mud, muck and snow are significant enough to cause issues in Chicago. On those days when the streets are packed, I admittedly do have to stop and wipe off the rims and tires every now and then during the ride. But this really is not much of an effort, nor, in my mind anyway, is it all that much of an inconvenience compared to auto commuters who plan around a longer commute on bad weather days. The real problem winder cycling in Chicago is the salt getting into everything. And I imagine that is as much a headache with discs as it is with rim brakes. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:11:05 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote: How you you manage mud, muck, snow, and ice on your rim brakes, Matthew? With abandon, Patrick On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:59:32 AM UTC-7, Matthew J wrote: Look, we all know rim brakes (under the right conditions) are a time-tested, simple and reliable technology, BUT can be subject to all kinds of rim variables and conditions that can affect their reliabilty... (e.g. muck, wet, snow ice that collects on the rims, misaligned pads, poor lever/cable setup, trueness of rim, etc.). But that BUT is a big but ;) Provided you have otherwise set up and maintain your rim brake equipped bike well, the problems you site are wholly manageable. It will be interesting to see if SRAM is able to resolve its issues. As I understand the SRAM dilemma is a result of trying to work a hydraulic disc system for road riding that does not require the beefier forks and chain stays which are fine on MTBs but take away from some of the pleasures of road riding. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:28:25 AM UTC-6, Montclair BobbyB wrote: Disclaimer: I admit I'm a slightly over-zealous, biased proponent of hydraulic disc brakes, so please take this as nothing more than absolute truth :). I'm sure SRAM will solve whatever problem is plaguing these particular disc brakes, but I have to say in the last 10 years of riding in sub-freezing weather on hydraulic discs without a single failure, I have only experienced superior performance and reliability with hydraulic discs under severe conditions. Look, we all know rim brakes (under the right conditions) are a time-tested, simple and reliable technology, BUT can be subject to all kinds of rim variables and conditions that can affect their reliabilty... (e.g. muck, wet, snow ice that collects on the rims, misaligned pads, poor lever/cable setup, trueness of rim, etc.). Disc brakes are generally not impacted by these same rim conditions (other than poor setup/adjustment... which still leads to lousy braking regardless). Cable-actuated disc brakes are less-impacted by mud, muck and ice, but still have moving, semi-exposed cables, calipers and springs that can really stiffen up in cold weather. Hydraulic disc brakes are less-impacted by mud, much and ice, and are mostly sealed to the elements. Besides the plunger at the lever and the pistons, fluid (in a sealed environment) is the only thing moving. Just like automobile brakes and heavy equipment hydraulics, hydraulic brakes on bikes are designed to function reliably in extreme conditions. And anyone who claims hydraulic brake lines can't easily be fixed out in the wilds just hasn't done it, that's all. It's not rocket science. In fact if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes... but then again there's also a very high probability I'd never need to use it. Like em or not, it takes a much stronger case to bash hydraulic disc brakes.Hydraulic rim brakes? Sorry, can't argue that one... End of rant. BB On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 10:56:56 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Soft seals can lose flexibility at low temperature, something you would expect a company in Chicago to know Good point. Of course I think SRAM's Chicago presence is limited to a few execs, marketers and contract managers! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Fair enough. I made the mistake thinking that you were responding directly to the quote you quoted. A guy makes a comment about rushing to market and then you say didn't NASA have a similar problem. I thought you were accusing NASA of rushing to market. You've clarified it for me. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:40:44 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 12/18/2013 01:38 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Richard Feynman has not written up his report on the SRAM issue. Also, thusfar, the SRAM issue has vaporized zero brave American Astronauts, so I would call those two problems not similar Consequences are not similar but O ring fails in cold weather certainly does sound similar to me... On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:28:08 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 12/18/2013 01:10 PM, oldmangabe wrote: The crux of this particular problem is that SRAM seems to have rushed it's product to market in order to compete with Shimano and meet market expectations. In doing so SRAM seems to have neglected to do enough RD on the redesign of the road versions of their hydro calipers. It always baffles me that companies would rather deal with warranties and recalls rather than make sure the products were correctly designed and speced, even if it means they come to market a bit later than the competitors. Didn't NASA have a similar problem with O-rings with the Space Shuttle? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
I think what SRAM did was simply a mistake.They now will live up to their warranty the way a decent company should. The Oring failures, if that's what the problem was, are a simple fix. SRAM makes a lot of things, Orings aren't one of them. If they got some that weren't up to spec, expect them to be suing one of their suppliers. I have yet to replace the hydraulic Orings in my 13 year old truck, my 17 year old car or my 10 year old motorcycle. I also have a set of Magura hydraulic rim brakes from the mid-nineties that are still going strong. Good Orings last. Until you start screwing with them. As long as they were up to par to begin with. Not sure of where the hippieness and braiding and not shaving comes from, but please ladies, keep it smooth. Cheers, Scott Henry Dayton, OH FTM-PTB On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Fair enough. I made the mistake thinking that you were responding directly to the quote you quoted. A guy makes a comment about rushing to market and then you say didn't NASA have a similar problem. I thought you were accusing NASA of rushing to market. You've clarified it for me. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:40:44 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 12/18/2013 01:38 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Richard Feynman has not written up his report on the SRAM issue. Also, thusfar, the SRAM issue has vaporized zero brave American Astronauts, so I would call those two problems not similar Consequences are not similar but O ring fails in cold weather certainly does sound similar to me... On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 10:28:08 AM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 12/18/2013 01:10 PM, oldmangabe wrote: The crux of this particular problem is that SRAM seems to have rushed it's product to market in order to compete with Shimano and meet market expectations. In doing so SRAM seems to have neglected to do enough RD on the redesign of the road versions of their hydro calipers. It always baffles me that companies would rather deal with warranties and recalls rather than make sure the products were correctly designed and speced, even if it means they come to market a bit later than the competitors. Didn't NASA have a similar problem with O-rings with the Space Shuttle? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Shimano disc brakes use a special mineral oil (which comes in a small, easy to carry sealed plastic bottle). Other brakes use DOT brake fluid... Easy to find, even in the wilds. BB -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On 12/18/2013 02:56 PM, Montclair BobbyB wrote: Shimano disc brakes use a special mineral oil (which comes in a small, easy to carry sealed plastic bottle). Other brakes use DOT brake fluid... Easy to find, even in the wilds. BB Perhaps we have a different understanding of wilds. If you are out there with Jan on one of those abandoned logging roads in the Cascade Mountains fifty miles from the nearest town, I doubt you are going to find many caches of DOT brake fluid concealed in the forest. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
My friend Bobby said earlier (and I quote): if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes Would you like him to describe the contents of this kit? I'll wager that DOT brake fluid is one of the items. Correspondingly, I bet you and Jan would carry a brake cable in your kit, since brake cables also do not grow on trees (so to speak). On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:08:49 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 12/18/2013 02:56 PM, Montclair BobbyB wrote: Shimano disc brakes use a special mineral oil (which comes in a small, easy to carry sealed plastic bottle). Other brakes use DOT brake fluid... Easy to find, even in the wilds. BB Perhaps we have a different understanding of wilds. If you are out there with Jan on one of those abandoned logging roads in the Cascade Mountains fifty miles from the nearest town, I doubt you are going to find many caches of DOT brake fluid concealed in the forest. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On 12/18/2013 03:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: My friend Bobby said earlier (and I quote): if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes Would you like him to describe the contents of this kit? I'll wager that DOT brake fluid is one of the items. Correspondingly, I bet you and Jan would carry a brake cable in your kit, since brake cables also do not grow on trees (so to speak). Tell you what else, shift cables do not grow on trees either. And when you have front and rear panniers on your bike and you're riding in rural West Virginia when your shift cable breaks, you will quickly discover, as I did, that in a town without a bike shop there isn't anything you can find in a hardware store that will work as a substitute. And believe you me, picture hanging wire just won't do: I know. I tried. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Is it just me or is this thread getting ridiculously cranky? Ah, yes, it's December...the usual winter surliness. Smile and go for a ride if you can! That's what I'm about to do... Regards, Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technologyhttp://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/ *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committeehttp://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On 12/18/2013 03:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: My friend Bobby said earlier (and I quote): if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes Would you like him to describe the contents of this kit? I'll wager that DOT brake fluid is one of the items. Correspondingly, I bet you and Jan would carry a brake cable in your kit, since brake cables also do not grow on trees (so to speak). Tell you what else, shift cables do not grow on trees either. And when you have front and rear panniers on your bike and you're riding in rural West Virginia when your shift cable breaks, you will quickly discover, as I did, that in a town without a bike shop there isn't anything you can find in a hardware store that will work as a substitute. And believe you me, picture hanging wire just won't do: I know. I tried. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
GRRR. NO! IT'S JUST YOU, ADDISON. GRR. Grin. With abandon, Patrick, who trusts that my math teacher was right and two negatives make a positive, at least when one of them is in sardonic jest. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 1:34:43 PM UTC-7, Addison wrote: Is it just me or is this thread getting ridiculously cranky? Ah, yes, it's December...the usual winter surliness. Smile and go for a ride if you can! That's what I'm about to do... Regards, Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technologyhttp://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/ *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committeehttp://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.comjavascript: wrote: On 12/18/2013 03:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: My friend Bobby said earlier (and I quote): if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes Would you like him to describe the contents of this kit? I'll wager that DOT brake fluid is one of the items. Correspondingly, I bet you and Jan would carry a brake cable in your kit, since brake cables also do not grow on trees (so to speak). Tell you what else, shift cables do not grow on trees either. And when you have front and rear panniers on your bike and you're riding in rural West Virginia when your shift cable breaks, you will quickly discover, as I did, that in a town without a bike shop there isn't anything you can find in a hardware store that will work as a substitute. And believe you me, picture hanging wire just won't do: I know. I tried. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Noted. Thank goodness spokes, 1/4 ball bearings and crank extractors do grow on trees. At least Mother Nature provides for us some of what we need. Bill we're not fighting, we're just stinking up the board unnecessarily Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 12:27:24 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: On 12/18/2013 03:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: My friend Bobby said earlier (and I quote): if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes Would you like him to describe the contents of this kit? I'll wager that DOT brake fluid is one of the items. Correspondingly, I bet you and Jan would carry a brake cable in your kit, since brake cables also do not grow on trees (so to speak). Tell you what else, shift cables do not grow on trees either. And when you have front and rear panniers on your bike and you're riding in rural West Virginia when your shift cable breaks, you will quickly discover, as I did, that in a town without a bike shop there isn't anything you can find in a hardware store that will work as a substitute. And believe you me, picture hanging wire just won't do: I know. I tried. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Naahhh... Steve P and I are good friends... he just loves to bust my chops... no worries. I'm feelin the love. Peace, BB On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:34:43 PM UTC-5, Addison wrote: Is it just me or is this thread getting ridiculously cranky? Ah, yes, it's December...the usual winter surliness. Smile and go for a ride if you can! That's what I'm about to do... Regards, Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technologyhttp://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/ *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committeehttp://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.comjavascript: wrote: On 12/18/2013 03:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: My friend Bobby said earlier (and I quote): if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes Would you like him to describe the contents of this kit? I'll wager that DOT brake fluid is one of the items. Correspondingly, I bet you and Jan would carry a brake cable in your kit, since brake cables also do not grow on trees (so to speak). Tell you what else, shift cables do not grow on trees either. And when you have front and rear panniers on your bike and you're riding in rural West Virginia when your shift cable breaks, you will quickly discover, as I did, that in a town without a bike shop there isn't anything you can find in a hardware store that will work as a substitute. And believe you me, picture hanging wire just won't do: I know. I tried. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Glad to hear it...i was going to make a joke about how I always carry an identical 2nd complete bike on my rides in the wilds because you never know when one might break. Cheers! Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technologyhttp://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/ *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committeehttp://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com wrote: Naahhh... Steve P and I are good friends... he just loves to bust my chops... no worries. I'm feelin the love. Peace, BB On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:34:43 PM UTC-5, Addison wrote: Is it just me or is this thread getting ridiculously cranky? Ah, yes, it's December...the usual winter surliness. Smile and go for a ride if you can! That's what I'm about to do... Regards, Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technologyhttp://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/ *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committeehttp://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.comwrote: On 12/18/2013 03:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: My friend Bobby said earlier (and I quote): if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes Would you like him to describe the contents of this kit? I'll wager that DOT brake fluid is one of the items. Correspondingly, I bet you and Jan would carry a brake cable in your kit, since brake cables also do not grow on trees (so to speak). Tell you what else, shift cables do not grow on trees either. And when you have front and rear panniers on your bike and you're riding in rural West Virginia when your shift cable breaks, you will quickly discover, as I did, that in a town without a bike shop there isn't anything you can find in a hardware store that will work as a substitute. And believe you me, picture hanging wire just won't do: I know. I tried. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Keep that kind of comment where it belongson the What I carried on my Rivendell thread. I carried a whole spare bike! :-) On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 1:28:26 PM UTC-8, Addison wrote: Glad to hear it...i was going to make a joke about how I always carry an identical 2nd complete bike on my rides in the wilds because you never know when one might break. Cheers! Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technologyhttp://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/ *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committeehttp://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 1:25 PM, Montclair BobbyB montcla...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: Naahhh... Steve P and I are good friends... he just loves to bust my chops... no worries. I'm feelin the love. Peace, BB On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:34:43 PM UTC-5, Addison wrote: Is it just me or is this thread getting ridiculously cranky? Ah, yes, it's December...the usual winter surliness. Smile and go for a ride if you can! That's what I'm about to do... Regards, Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technologyhttp://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/ *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committeehttp://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.comwrote: On 12/18/2013 03:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: My friend Bobby said earlier (and I quote): if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes Would you like him to describe the contents of this kit? I'll wager that DOT brake fluid is one of the items. Correspondingly, I bet you and Jan would carry a brake cable in your kit, since brake cables also do not grow on trees (so to speak). Tell you what else, shift cables do not grow on trees either. And when you have front and rear panniers on your bike and you're riding in rural West Virginia when your shift cable breaks, you will quickly discover, as I did, that in a town without a bike shop there isn't anything you can find in a hardware store that will work as a substitute. And believe you me, picture hanging wire just won't do: I know. I tried. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On 12/18/2013 04:22 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Noted. Thank goodness spokes, 1/4 ball bearings and crank extractors do grow on trees. At least Mother Nature provides for us some of what we need. ROTFL! Apropos of Mother Nature providing, ask Thomas Allingham about crank bolts on the GAP. I'm not sure the story's been told here, and so, it certainly bears repetition. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Steve, owner of the bike shop where I worked sporadically last summer, told me that one particular brand of hydraulic disks (Magura?) would seize up in very hot weather as the working fluid expanded beyond spec. Has anyone experienced this? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
my, my my... We're really discussing a SRAM recall here? And now it's spiraled out into this galaxy of snipes and counter-snipes? I realize that it's the winter months for many of us on the list, but can we let this thread drop and die, please? Thanks! - Jim / list admin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Is it just me or is this thread getting ridiculously cranky? Ah, yes, it's December...the usual winter surliness. Hope no one feels I am being cranky about this. I think we can take it for granted in some bad weather scenarios disc brakes have advantages over rim. We also have to take for granted that even the best built disc brake at this point in time is going to have to have extra steel at critical points of the bike that will impact ride and feel. The rider has to compromise between consistent stopping regardless the road conditions or overall road feel. SRAM is trying to come up with disc brakes for road bikes that obviate the compromise. My operating theory anyway is the recall demonstrates SRAM's effort may be more difficult than they think. Not sure if it is impossible. But I do not think we are there yet. As for me, given where I live and ride, road feel - thus rim brakes - take precedent. I'm willing to suffer a couple of inconvenient rides per year in order to get the best possible road feel. If I lived and rode somewhere those bad rides were 20 times a year or more, I might well have a different mindset. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 2:34:43 PM UTC-6, Addison wrote: Is it just me or is this thread getting ridiculously cranky? Ah, yes, it's December...the usual winter surliness. Smile and go for a ride if you can! That's what I'm about to do... Regards, Addison Wilhite, M.A. Academy of Arts, Careers and Technologyhttp://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/ *“Blazing the Trail to College and Career Success”* Educator: Professional Portfolio http://addisonwilhite.blogspot.com/ Blogger: Reno Rambler http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/ Bicycle Advocate: Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian Advisory Committeehttp://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Steve Palincsar pali...@his.comjavascript: wrote: On 12/18/2013 03:16 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: My friend Bobby said earlier (and I quote): if I were embarking on a multi-day tour away from civilization, I'd have a lightweight, compact kit with me that would get me through any potential jam with my brakes Would you like him to describe the contents of this kit? I'll wager that DOT brake fluid is one of the items. Correspondingly, I bet you and Jan would carry a brake cable in your kit, since brake cables also do not grow on trees (so to speak). Tell you what else, shift cables do not grow on trees either. And when you have front and rear panniers on your bike and you're riding in rural West Virginia when your shift cable breaks, you will quickly discover, as I did, that in a town without a bike shop there isn't anything you can find in a hardware store that will work as a substitute. And believe you me, picture hanging wire just won't do: I know. I tried. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript: . Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Sorry Jim, appears as though I was sending my post when you sent yours. On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:02:16 PM UTC-6, Cyclofiend Jim wrote: my, my my... We're really discussing a SRAM recall here? And now it's spiraled out into this galaxy of snipes and counter-snipes? I realize that it's the winter months for many of us on the list, but can we let this thread drop and die, please? Thanks! - Jim / list admin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 2:00:54 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote: Steve, owner of the bike shop where I worked sporadically last summer, told me that one particular brand of hydraulic disks (Magura?) would seize up in very hot weather as the working fluid expanded beyond spec. Has anyone experienced this? Yes. I really liked Maguras for ease of installation, set-up, and cold performance, but they are very easy to overheat here on the sides of Mt. Diablo. The rotors get hot enough to scar a calf (my lower leg, but I'm sure it would brand a baby cow too). Their proprietary fluid is, perhaps, intended for Teutonic cold. I've since switched to Formula brakes, and the Italians seem to know how to control for heat, at least on disc brakes. jim m wc ca -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 2:11:21 PM UTC-8, Matthew J wrote: Sorry Jim, appears as though I was sending my post when you sent yours. My apologies too for extending an OT thread. jim m wc ca -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
So if Tom used wired castle nuts with a threaded BB spindle to keep those crankarms onboard, he'd have to carry this: http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd187/MyG503Pictures/M-7.jpg and this: http://www.malinco.com/aerospace-lockwire.html Half the fun is trying to figure out what to do to get by when things fail, albeit a cyclist's perspective. Pilots on the list will have a different view. Parallelograms of front and rear derailleurs are wonderful receptacles for just the right sized stick or pebble to hold a single chainring or cog for the ride out. Shift cables are in fact dear anymore. Was with some folks on a ride toward the setting sun and it's ocean when the other three in my group began shedding STI units in alarming unison. Good thing I had a set of DT shifters in my bag. Turns out they were used much more than my spare tire once the others had taken their turns. One's itinerary makes it the difference of making it back to your car or another town, city or state. Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 4:52:52 PM UTC-5, Steve wrote: On 12/18/2013 04:22 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Noted. Thank goodness spokes, 1/4 ball bearings and crank extractors do grow on trees. At least Mother Nature provides for us some of what we need. ROTFL! Apropos of Mother Nature providing, ask Thomas Allingham about crank bolts on the GAP. I'm not sure the story's been told here, and so, it certainly bears repetition. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On 12/18/2013 05:59 PM, ascpgh wrote: Parallelograms of front and rear derailleurs are wonderful receptacles for just the right sized stick or pebble to hold a single chainring or cog for the ride out. No need to go hunting for sticks or pebbles to hold the rear derailleur onto an appropriate single sprocket if the cable breaks. We're seeing a lot of broken right hand shift cables these days: there's some sort of fatigue point inside many Shimano STI units. But when the cable breaks, it's always at the shifter. That leaves lots of perfectly good cable attached to the rear derailleur. So unscrew the bolts on a water bottle cage. With your thumb push the rear derailleur in so that the chain lines up with a sprocket that will give you a couple of usable gears on your two chain rings, and put tension on the derailleur cable to hold it in place. Catch the cable under the water bottle cage and screw the bolts back down to hold the tension. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:20:23 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: We're seeing a lot of broken right hand shift cables these days: there's some sort of fatigue point inside many Shimano STI units. But when the cable breaks, it's always at the shifter. Yup, it appears that ever since Shimano decided to put their cabling under the handlebar tape, there's been problems with the head of the shifter cable breaking inside the STI lever: http://jimlangley.blogspot.com/2007/09/q-cable-stuck-inside-shimano-sti.html This didn't seem to happen when Shimano had their STI cables outside of the handlebar tape. That leaves lots of perfectly good cable attached to the rear derailleur. So unscrew the bolts on a water bottle cage. With your thumb push the rear derailleur in so that the chain lines up with a sprocket that will give you a couple of usable gears on your two chain rings, and put tension on the derailleur cable to hold it in place. Catch the cable under the water bottle cage and screw the bolts back down to hold the tension. Great advice! Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
One more vote for Campy! And yes, great hack, Steve! On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:28:32 PM UTC-8, Brewster Fong wrote: On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 3:20:23 PM UTC-8, Steve Palincsar wrote: We're seeing a lot of broken right hand shift cables these days: there's some sort of fatigue point inside many Shimano STI units. But when the cable breaks, it's always at the shifter. Yup, it appears that ever since Shimano decided to put their cabling under the handlebar tape, there's been problems with the head of the shifter cable breaking inside the STI lever: http://jimlangley.blogspot.com/2007/09/q-cable-stuck-inside-shimano-sti.html This didn't seem to happen when Shimano had their STI cables outside of the handlebar tape. That leaves lots of perfectly good cable attached to the rear derailleur. So unscrew the bolts on a water bottle cage. With your thumb push the rear derailleur in so that the chain lines up with a sprocket that will give you a couple of usable gears on your two chain rings, and put tension on the derailleur cable to hold it in place. Catch the cable under the water bottle cage and screw the bolts back down to hold the tension. Great advice! Good Luck! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On Wednesday, December 18, 2013 7:56:36 AM UTC-6, Cecily Walker wrote: What about female retrogrouches? Do we just let our leg hair grow out? :-D Already done! And I'm puttin' corn rows down my shins! :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
I have no idea what the Snob is talking about I've had flowers weaved in my beard long before this recall...seriously what Bobby said sums it up, discs have their application and purpose and I figure one of these days I'll have a bicycle outfitted with em especially if I plan on riding in a region with precipitation. ~Hugh On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:56:56 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
Disks on roadbikes is going to be an awful fad. On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 9:56:56 PM UTC-6, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
[RBW] Re: Dancing Around the Lugged Steel Maypole
On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 7:56:56 PM UTC-8, Doug Williams wrote: I'm weaving flowers into my beard right now and looking for a lugged steel maypole. Care to join me? From SRAM and the Bike Snob New York: Doug *It has recently come to our attention that during last weekend’s Cyclocross racing in the US, in sub freezing temperatures, several failures were reported. In these conditions the master cylinder seals failed to hold pressure resulting in abrupt loss of brake power, and an inability to stop the bike. These failures are related to product that is outside the originally stated date code range and unrelated to the original failure mode. No injuries have been reported to date.* *As a result of this new finding, SRAM requests that anyone who has a bike equipped with SRAM Hydraulic Disc or Hydraulic Rim Brakes stop using the bike immediately. All products shipped to date, and currently in the market or in inventory will be recalled.* Upon reading this, retrogrouches around the world wove flowers into their beards and danced arm-in-arm around the lugged steel maypole, reveling in the irony that the very conditions in which hydrolic dick breaks are supposed to excel were instead their undoing. Meanwhile, the experts at SRAM have been working around the clock to find a new way to convince people that you need hydraulic braking for slow bicycle races that last only 45 minutes to an hour in which you have access to a spare bicycle roughly every five minutes. As for the hydraulic rim brakes, all SRAM has to say about that is that if you actually bought those then the joke's on you. Its actually worse, this is going to be very expensive for Sram: http://www.bicycleretailer.com/recalls/2013/12/17/sram-says-brake-recall-disruptive-and-painful#.UrEgovRDuSo I can see the lawyers lining up now. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
