Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Nice country riding around Cedartown. If you would, send me an email per 
your address so I can add it to the list. 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 8:59:15 AM UTC-5, Fullylugged wrote:
>
> I live near Montgomery, AL but every other week work in Cedartown with a 
> Rambouillet packed in the car. I ride a couple of nights after work, 
> usually solo, but sometimes with the Rome Rides A Bike gang.  Give a shout 
> anytime you want to set something steel framed up!

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Rich, Tony lives in the Decatur area. A friend of mine rides with him 
regularly. 

I used to do Ride to the Capital, but I'm over-committed for March as is!

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, Ga

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 3:44:28 PM UTC-5, RichS wrote:
>
> Hi Bill:
>
> Bill, thanks for compiling a list of ATL Riv/Rivish riders. I don't know 
> Tony Scott. Which area of ATL does he live in?
>
> Best regards,
> Richard
>
>
>
> On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 1:37:06 AM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
>>
>> Hi Rich,
>>
>> I'm attempting to compile a list of RBW/iBob riders in the area. 
>>
>> I don't yet have a Riv, but I have a stable of steel bikes, Bridgestone, 
>> Trek and Bianchi. 
>>
>> Do you know Tony Scott? He just got a beautiful Terra Firma. 
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill in Roswell, GA
>>
>> On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 10:23:28 AM UTC-5, RichS wrote:
>>>
>>> Very good! Nice to see more GA based Riv owners showing up here. Which 
>>> models do you ride? 
>>>
>>> Regards, 
>>> Richard 
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone 
>>>
>>> > On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:58 AM, 'Jennings' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: 
>>> > 
>>> > There are two more of us with Riv's in South Forsyth/Cumming that 
>>> would like to meet up.  We've been talking about doing a local ride and 
>>> finishing up with a Jekyl brewery tour. 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
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>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[RichS]

Hi Bill:

Bill, thanks for compiling a list of ATL Riv/Rivish riders. I don't know 
Tony Scott. Which area of ATL does he live in?

Best regards,
Richard



On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 1:37:06 AM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
>
> Hi Rich,
>
> I'm attempting to compile a list of RBW/iBob riders in the area. 
>
> I don't yet have a Riv, but I have a stable of steel bikes, Bridgestone, 
> Trek and Bianchi. 
>
> Do you know Tony Scott? He just got a beautiful Terra Firma. 
>
> Cheers,
> Bill in Roswell, GA
>
> On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 10:23:28 AM UTC-5, RichS wrote:
>>
>> Very good! Nice to see more GA based Riv owners showing up here. Which 
>> models do you ride? 
>>
>> Regards, 
>> Richard 
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone 
>>
>> > On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:58 AM, 'Jennings' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote: 
>> > 
>> > There are two more of us with Riv's in South Forsyth/Cumming that would 
>> like to meet up.  We've been talking about doing a local ride and finishing 
>> up with a Jekyl brewery tour. 
>> > 
>> > -- 
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>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Fullylugged]

I live near Montgomery, AL but every other week work in Cedartown with a 
Rambouillet packed in the car. I ride a couple of nights after work, usually 
solo, but sometimes with the Rome Rides A Bike gang.  Give a shout anytime you 
want to set something steel framed up!

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Hi Rich,

I'm attempting to compile a list of RBW/iBob riders in the area. 

I don't yet have a Riv, but I have a stable of steel bikes, Bridgestone, 
Trek and Bianchi. 

Do you know Tony Scott? He just got a beautiful Terra Firma. 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 10:23:28 AM UTC-5, RichS wrote:
>
> Very good! Nice to see more GA based Riv owners showing up here. Which 
> models do you ride? 
>
> Regards, 
> Richard 
>
> Sent from my iPhone 
>
> > On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:58 AM, 'Jennings' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote: 
> > 
> > There are two more of us with Riv's in South Forsyth/Cumming that would 
> like to meet up.  We've been talking about doing a local ride and finishing 
> up with a Jekyl brewery tour. 
> > 
> > -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Jennings,

I lost track of your email address. My riding has been sporadic. About to 
start on knee physical therapy again, so hopefully back up to speed in a 
few weeks. 

Did a shortish 20 milers out near Milton couple of weeks ago. Traffic keeps 
getting heavier and now a developer is doing another big expanse on 
Providence west of Bham Hwy. 

What is your email? I can't recall how to make it show on on here. 

Jock Dewey is in Athens and he wants to do some rides, too, as does Rich in 
Decatur. 

Cheers,'
Bill

On Friday, December 16, 2016 at 7:58:15 AM UTC-5, Jennings wrote:
>
> There are two more of us with Riv's in South Forsyth/Cumming that would 
> like to meet up.  We've been talking about doing a local ride and finishing 
> up with a Jekyl brewery tour.

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

['Jennings' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have a hunqapillar and my friend has a hilsen and quickbeam 

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[R Shannon]

Very good! Nice to see more GA based Riv owners showing up here. Which models 
do you ride?

Regards,
Richard

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 16, 2016, at 7:58 AM, 'Jennings' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> There are two more of us with Riv's in South Forsyth/Cumming that would like 
> to meet up.  We've been talking about doing a local ride and finishing up 
> with a Jekyl brewery tour.
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

['Jennings' via RBW Owners Bunch]

There are two more of us with Riv's in South Forsyth/Cumming that would like to 
meet up.  We've been talking about doing a local ride and finishing up with a 
Jekyl brewery tour.

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[R Shannon]

If it's a sage green Sam then quite possibly. I rode to St. Mtn. one day last 
week to look at the tent camping sites. For me an easy Sub 24 ride/camp out. A 
little over an hour one way from my house.

Riv/iBob ride would be great!

Best regards,
Richard



Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 15, 2016, at 8:12 PM, Bill in Roswell GA  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Rich,
> 
> Is that your green Riv I see near Stone Mtn sometimes? I used to ride there 
> when my friend lived in Avondale Estates. 
> 
> Indeed, we'll get up a RBW/iBob group ride after the holidays!
> 
> Cheers
> Bill in Roswell, GA
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 9:16:56 PM UTC-5, RichS wrote:
>> Jumping in here with the Georgia list members to include Decatur! As the 
>> signs say: "A Bicycle Friendly Community"
>> Riv Ride south in the offing?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Richard
>> 
>>> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-5, Joe Gates wrote:
>>> Bill and Jock: I am about halfway between you two in Winder!  Perhaps one 
>>> day we can all meet up for a ride!  
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/15/2016 10:09 PM, Belopsky wrote:
I'd love a L'however you spell it, but I also don't 'need' it - I 
don't front load or anything, I like the look, want a 650b bike. I 
guess the Touissant could be that on the cheap (as far as frame goes) 
but..




If you "don't front load" then you really do *not* want one. Nor the 
Touissant, either.



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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Belopsky]

I'd love a L'however you spell it, but I also don't 'need' it - I don't 
front load or anything, I like the look, want a 650b bike. I guess the 
Touissant could be that on the cheap (as far as frame goes) but..

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[John Hawrylak]

Bill

What is a "bike packing bike"  ??

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Hi Rich,

Is that your green Riv I see near Stone Mtn sometimes? I used to ride there 
when my friend lived in Avondale Estates. 

Indeed, we'll get up a RBW/iBob group ride after the holidays!

Cheers
Bill in Roswell, GA



On Wednesday, December 14, 2016 at 9:16:56 PM UTC-5, RichS wrote:
>
> Jumping in here with the Georgia list members to include Decatur! As the 
> signs say: "A Bicycle Friendly Community"
> Riv Ride south in the offing?
>
> Best regards,
> Richard
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-5, Joe Gates wrote:
>>
>> Bill and Jock: I am about halfway between you two in Winder!  Perhaps one 
>> day we can all meet up for a ride!  
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Steve Palincsar]

On 12/14/2016 08:44 PM, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
Thanks, Steve. I know when Jan was in Japan he was touring with a 
front load, which is where I want to be. He was bombing down some 
mountain roads on that thing!


A close friend has an old ti Litespeed Appalachia touring bike that 
has been just about everywhere in the US and parts of Canada. Yet it 
has a lively ride sans load -we have to ride up the same long hill on 
the way home.


After I talked with a guy on an Atlantis locally (only the second Riv 
I'd ever seen) I aspired to own one. Such a beautiful bike. I rarely 
see one for sale in my size (53/54).*Jeff Lyon has a L'Avec w a 54.5 
top tube, which is the same as all the bikes I have so fit won't be an 
issue.*


I also like Rob Park's Ramblers, but he is just now putting together 
another production run.


Too many choices!





Seems pretty obvious to me, Bill...


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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[RichS]

Jumping in here with the Georgia list members to include Decatur! As the 
signs say: "A Bicycle Friendly Community"
Riv Ride south in the offing?

Best regards,
Richard

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-5, Joe Gates wrote:
>
> Bill and Jock: I am about halfway between you two in Winder!  Perhaps one 
> day we can all meet up for a ride!  

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Thanks, Steve. I know when Jan was in Japan he was touring with a front 
load, which is where I want to be. He was bombing down some mountain roads 
on that thing!

A close friend has an old ti Litespeed Appalachia touring bike that has 
been just about everywhere in the US and parts of Canada. Yet it has a 
lively ride sans load -we have to ride up the same long hill on the way 
home. 

After I talked with a guy on an Atlantis locally (only the second Riv I'd 
ever seen) I aspired to own one. Such a beautiful bike. I rarely see one 
for sale in my size (53/54). Jeff Lyon has a L'Avec w a 54.5 top tube, 
which is the same as all the bikes I have so fit won't be an issue.

I also like Rob Park's Ramblers, but he is just now putting together 
another production run. 

Too many choices!

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA


On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 5:10:54 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> 20 lb is not a very heavy touring load.  Over on the 650B list, Alex 
> Wetmore has made the point more than once that a lightweight, flexible 
> front-loader like the L'Avecaise can handle that sort of a load up front on 
> low-riders very well without needing the sort of stiffness that might be 
> required of a rear-loaded touring bike.   Consider Jan Heine's "mule":
>
>
>
>
> That's ultra-lightweight tubing except for the OS downtube, but that 
> load's got to be a hell of a lot more than 20 lb.
>
>
>
> On 12/13/2016 04:31 PM, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
>
> Bill, you do make some good points. I just want it all - lively ride that 
> can carry a 20 lb. camping load (being a lightweight backpacker). Yeah, 
> nothing can do everything well. If I were going to do a heavy duty tour I 
> would get a bike appropriate for that. 
>
> The Roadeo is much like bikes I already have. And you are correct, I 
> should get rid of some bikes! 
>
> Cheers,
> Bill in Roswell, GA
>
>   
>
>  
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:14:02 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
>>
>> What debate?  The obvious answer is both. The L'Avecaise is not a bike 
>> packing bike. It's a cyclotouring bike at most. The Riv model it most 
>> resembles would be a Roadeo. If you want a real touring bike or a bike 
>> packing bike, the Lyon is not necessarily that.  But if you want a light 
>> flexible road machine for fat tires, the Rivendell is maybe overbuilt.  You 
>> really need one of each, or maybe need to clear out your existing stable to 
>> make room 
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

No kidding? Joe, you're in the middle of good, long country ride territory. 
Yup, we'll have to do that after the holidays. Orthopedic told me yesterday 
that I can't really exercise until after holidays as it takes a while for 
synthetic cartilage to settle in. Long, slow bike rides will be just the 
physical therapy needed by then - physically and mentally!

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 6:50:36 PM UTC-5, Joe Gates wrote:
>
> Bill and Jock: I am about halfway between you two in Winder!  Perhaps one 
> day we can all meet up for a ride!  

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Daniel Jackson]

 Anybody know what pump that is on Jan's bike?

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Joe Gates]

Bill and Jock: I am about halfway between you two in Winder!  Perhaps one day 
we can all meet up for a ride!  

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Jock Dewey]

Oh, yes, yes...you are right about the rain!! And if we don't get it now 
through the winter, we're screwed! Our local reservoir was down maybe 10' 
I'll bet. 

Good, we should def make some plans. There aren't a whole lot of us around, 
you know; weed out the carbons and it would be just about left to me, ha! 
Oh, I do have pal here who actually builds frames (just for himself, too 
bad) so that's one more. Wow, 2 of us!

I think all of my bikes are right about 24.5 lbs. Who knows how accurate my 
scale is but either add or unwind some tape and they'd all be the same. I 
simply can't tell the difference, certainly not riding, that's why I got 
brave and tried the scale. I was afraid of more, and I didn't want to know! 
We're a screwy bunch, that's for sure.

Good luck with the L'Avecaise. Great looking bike, surely a great ride, and 
from all accounts a good guy building them. Properly priced, too, IMHO. 

Merry Christmas, Bill, and keep in touch.

JD


On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 4:43:54 PM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
>
> Thank you for sharing the photos, Jock. Great to see them all. You have 
> quite the stable. I didn't know you have a Ram, also. 
>
> Is the Soma a Stanyan? I know a few guys who've built up Smoothies. The 
> Stanyan is slightly lighter tubing? A bit surprised that the Ebisu is 
> heavier. 
>
> I will definitely plan a ride with you after the holidays. Athens has 
> better country riding for sure. I haven't been riding regularly due to some 
> knee issues. Getting rounds of synthetic cartilage injections the next few 
> weeks. The Dr. told me to take it easy, don't cause any swelling while 
> tissues are absorbing the knee goo. 
>
> Can't complain about the rainy weather since a few weeks ago half of the 
> places I hike were closed due to forest fires! 
>
> Cheers,
> Bill in Roswell, GA
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 10:49:07 AM UTC-5, Jock Dewey wrote:
>>
>> Hey, Bill:
>>
>> Definitely YES, do the L'Avecaise! Then c'mon over to Athens so I can 
>> have a go at it. 
>>
>> My quandry is, I haven't had skinny tubes since those days my Eisentraut 
>> (now hanging up) was on the road. What if L'Avecaise was so magical my 
>> Ebisu or Ram no longer came out of the house? Oh, that would be sad because 
>> I'm so fond of both (and after 13 years just had JB respray Ram).
>>
>> Of course, much of this mystifies me. I built Soma--nice stainless 
>> headlugs--a couple years ago with a bunch of nice bits I'd been collecting. 
>> (I got pro-deal on frame so it was really inexpensive.) Despite frame specs 
>> at which many would scoff, I grab this bike all the time as I love the way 
>> it 'feels'. I guess I still don't know what that quite means totally, even 
>> after more than 60 years aboard. To wit, I ride Ebisu all day, then hop on 
>> the yellow bike and despite its on-paper shortcomings, it's full of life. 
>> Sprightly, comfortable and fast, too. When I'm challenged by my kid to keep 
>> his wheel, I often grab Soma.
>>
>> Last spring I had some time on a rainy day, my wife was in CA with 
>> family, so I took off bags, pumps, water bottles--but left on fenders, 
>> pedals, etc--and crudely weighed them all on a hanging scale. I must admit, 
>> I wasn't sure I really wanted to know. Surprise, surprise, pleasant 
>> surprise...they all weighed about 24 1/2 lbs. As comparison (and to make 
>> sure scale was sort-of working), Waterford AC1900 came in at 28 lbs. and 
>> kid's Columbus Bianchi racing bike with featherweight Chronometro Aerohead 
>> wheels weighed in at just ever so slightly over 23 lbs. Wow.
>>
>> (Oh, another data point, all my bikes share same wheel spec, i.e. Open 
>> Pro / 32 / XTR hubs / 15g spokes / light, responsive 30mm tires. All other 
>> very-nice components quite similar).
>>
>> So now I wonder/ponder, thinking back to other bikes and experiences, 
>> tandems included, I recall being stunned when I first rode my now-long-gone 
>> Litespeed. THAT was breathtaking...so so so light. Oh my gosh. I was 
>> instantly 20 years younger.
>>
>> Therefore, what is the mystical IT? Is there a mystical IT? I'm thinking 
>> weight, other spex relatively equal, really does have something quite 
>> crucial to say about *it. *
>>
>> I guess what I'm realizing is (and answering my own question), at this 
>> point, I should probably just quit while I'm ahead. Enticing as today's 
>> choices are and they ARE enticing, perhaps more so than they've ever been, 
>> maybe I should continue to ride and care for the joys I gots rather than 
>> entertain dreams of the ones I ain't gots. 
>>
>> But, Bill, if you DO pull the trigger and go L'Avecaise, still c'mon over 
>> so I can admire. And you would let me ride it around the block, right?
>>
>> Oh and BTW, someone once told me 'the best day is when you buy a boat and 
>> the next best day is when you sell it.' 
>>
>> BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>
>>
>> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 10:56:32 PM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA 

[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Thank you for sharing the photos, Jock. Great to see them all. You have 
quite the stable. I didn't know you have a Ram, also. 

Is the Soma a Stanyan? I know a few guys who've built up Smoothies. The 
Stanyan is slightly lighter tubing? A bit surprised that the Ebisu is 
heavier. 

I will definitely plan a ride with you after the holidays. Athens has 
better country riding for sure. I haven't been riding regularly due to some 
knee issues. Getting rounds of synthetic cartilage injections the next few 
weeks. The Dr. told me to take it easy, don't cause any swelling while 
tissues are absorbing the knee goo. 

Can't complain about the rainy weather since a few weeks ago half of the 
places I hike were closed due to forest fires! 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 10:49:07 AM UTC-5, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Hey, Bill:
>
> Definitely YES, do the L'Avecaise! Then c'mon over to Athens so I can have 
> a go at it. 
>
> My quandry is, I haven't had skinny tubes since those days my Eisentraut 
> (now hanging up) was on the road. What if L'Avecaise was so magical my 
> Ebisu or Ram no longer came out of the house? Oh, that would be sad because 
> I'm so fond of both (and after 13 years just had JB respray Ram).
>
> Of course, much of this mystifies me. I built Soma--nice stainless 
> headlugs--a couple years ago with a bunch of nice bits I'd been collecting. 
> (I got pro-deal on frame so it was really inexpensive.) Despite frame specs 
> at which many would scoff, I grab this bike all the time as I love the way 
> it 'feels'. I guess I still don't know what that quite means totally, even 
> after more than 60 years aboard. To wit, I ride Ebisu all day, then hop on 
> the yellow bike and despite its on-paper shortcomings, it's full of life. 
> Sprightly, comfortable and fast, too. When I'm challenged by my kid to keep 
> his wheel, I often grab Soma.
>
> Last spring I had some time on a rainy day, my wife was in CA with family, 
> so I took off bags, pumps, water bottles--but left on fenders, pedals, 
> etc--and crudely weighed them all on a hanging scale. I must admit, I 
> wasn't sure I really wanted to know. Surprise, surprise, pleasant 
> surprise...they all weighed about 24 1/2 lbs. As comparison (and to make 
> sure scale was sort-of working), Waterford AC1900 came in at 28 lbs. and 
> kid's Columbus Bianchi racing bike with featherweight Chronometro Aerohead 
> wheels weighed in at just ever so slightly over 23 lbs. Wow.
>
> (Oh, another data point, all my bikes share same wheel spec, i.e. Open Pro 
> / 32 / XTR hubs / 15g spokes / light, responsive 30mm tires. All other 
> very-nice components quite similar).
>
> So now I wonder/ponder, thinking back to other bikes and experiences, 
> tandems included, I recall being stunned when I first rode my now-long-gone 
> Litespeed. THAT was breathtaking...so so so light. Oh my gosh. I was 
> instantly 20 years younger.
>
> Therefore, what is the mystical IT? Is there a mystical IT? I'm thinking 
> weight, other spex relatively equal, really does have something quite 
> crucial to say about *it. *
>
> I guess what I'm realizing is (and answering my own question), at this 
> point, I should probably just quit while I'm ahead. Enticing as today's 
> choices are and they ARE enticing, perhaps more so than they've ever been, 
> maybe I should continue to ride and care for the joys I gots rather than 
> entertain dreams of the ones I ain't gots. 
>
> But, Bill, if you DO pull the trigger and go L'Avecaise, still c'mon over 
> so I can admire. And you would let me ride it around the block, right?
>
> Oh and BTW, someone once told me 'the best day is when you buy a boat and 
> the next best day is when you sell it.' 
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>
>
> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 10:56:32 PM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA 
> wrote:
>>
>> The little devil on my shoulder awoke when I saw that Jeff Lyon wants to 
>> move some L'Avecaise frames out with fork and headset (customer gets to 
>> pick the single, solid paint color). I'd been thinking Riv for years, but 
>> never justified pulling the trigger (I'm pretty happy with my stable, but 
>> I'm missing something to do bikepacking with - was thinking Wolverine, but 
>> then - you know - that NYT article came out; plus I just got rid of the 
>> monthly boat anchor at the local marina).
>>
>> So, given the choice for the same price and knowing I can't go wrong 
>> either way, would you pick a Riv or L'Avecaise? 
>>
>> I'm just interested in hearing some different points of view because my 
>> feeble brain isn't capable of thinking of every angle of consideration!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill in Roswell, GA 
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Bill, you do make some good points. I just want it all - lively ride that 
can carry a 20 lb. camping load (being a lightweight backpacker). Yeah, 
nothing can do everything well. If I were going to do a heavy duty tour I 
would get a bike appropriate for that.

The Roadeo is much like bikes I already have. And you are correct, I should 
get rid of some bikes! 

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

 

 

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:14:02 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> What debate?  The obvious answer is both. The L'Avecaise is not a bike 
> packing bike. It's a cyclotouring bike at most. The Riv model it most 
> resembles would be a Roadeo. If you want a real touring bike or a bike 
> packing bike, the Lyon is not necessarily that.  But if you want a light 
> flexible road machine for fat tires, the Rivendell is maybe overbuilt.  You 
> really need one of each, or maybe need to clear out your existing stable to 
> make room 

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Steve P is correct. The list was on Paceline. $1600 for frame, fork, 
headset, and one color paint. 

The Wolverine wasn't in NYT! NYT had an article about how getting what you 
love is more satisfying. However, getting what you love doesn't necessarily 
mean you'll stop wanting something else!

Cheers
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:07:42 PM UTC-5, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
>
> I* saw that Jeff Lyon wants to move some L'Avecaise frames out with fork 
> and headset *
>
> May I ask where you saw this information?  I looked up his website and 
> didn't see anything on a sale or promotion.
> thanks!
>
> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 10:56:32 PM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA 
> wrote:
>
>> The little devil on my shoulder awoke when I saw that Jeff Lyon wants to 
>> move some L'Avecaise frames out with fork and headset (customer gets to 
>> pick the single, solid paint color). I'd been thinking Riv for years, but 
>> never justified pulling the trigger (I'm pretty happy with my stable, but 
>> I'm missing something to do bikepacking with - was thinking Wolverine, but 
>> then - you know - that NYT article came out; plus I just got rid of the 
>> monthly boat anchor at the local marina).
>>
>> So, given the choice for the same price and knowing I can't go wrong 
>> either way, would you pick a Riv or L'Avecaise? 
>>
>> I'm just interested in hearing some different points of view because my 
>> feeble brain isn't capable of thinking of every angle of consideration!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill in Roswell, GA 
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Sure looks good to me and I'm liking that Porche in the background too!

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 1:56:21 PM UTC-5, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Hey, Brewster, et. al.:
>
> I apologize for crowding the internet this a.m., but to my delight I just 
> found & scanned pix circa '77 of my old 'traut...ready to ride. Oh happy 
> day!
>
> Twenty years, nearly to the day I suspect, since that Blue Streak love 
> affair. I'm pretty close, right? This green bike even looks good by today's 
> standards, if I'm not mistaken.
>
> If I do say myself, sweet!!
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey
>
> On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:59:12 PM UTC-5, Brewster Fong wrote:
>>
>>  Jock wrote:
>>
>> > (now hanging up) was on the road.>
>>
>> Wait, you have an Eisentraut and it's hanging on the wall?!  Why? If it 
>> is not damaged, why not fix that up and get it going?!  Although now 
>> retired, Albert Eisentraut's frames are second to none!  
>>
>> Good Luck!  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Jock Dewey]

Yes, Brewster, thanks.

Although it's "Limited" and not the "A", so some would say not-so-great. It 
was a fantastic ride for many years and many thousands of miles--so 
well-crafted. Gorgeous. It's right above my bench. The thing's in wonderful 
shape and will put it back together one of these days. A little small, but 
everyone in '75 or so crammed themselves on frames too small, saved weight, 
made 'em stiffer, ha! I recall reading Jan talk about leaving his rubber 
Mafac brake hoods off to 'save weight'! We just can't get away from it.

BEST / Jock

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:59:12 PM UTC-5, Brewster Fong wrote:
>
>  Jock wrote:
>
>  (now hanging up) was on the road.>
>
> Wait, you have an Eisentraut and it's hanging on the wall?!  Why? If it is 
> not damaged, why not fix that up and get it going?!  Although now retired, 
> Albert Eisentraut's frames are second to none!  
>
> Good Luck!  
>

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Brewster Fong]

 Jock wrote:



Wait, you have an Eisentraut and it's hanging on the wall?!  Why? If it is 
not damaged, why not fix that up and get it going?!  Although now retired, 
Albert Eisentraut's frames are second to none!  

Good Luck!  

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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Steve Palincsar]

On his flickr site, as noted in one of the forums, either Paceline or 
Vsalon, and also discussed at some length on the BOB list.



On 12/13/2016 12:07 PM, Chris Birkenmaier wrote:
I*saw that Jeff Lyon wants to move some L'Avecaise frames out with 
fork and headset *


May I ask where you saw this information?  I looked up his website and 
didn't see anything on a sale or promotion.

thanks!

On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 10:56:32 PM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA 
wrote:


The little devil on my shoulder awoke when I saw that Jeff Lyon
wants to move some L'Avecaise frames out with fork and headset
(customer gets to pick the single, solid paint color). I'd been
thinking Riv for years, but never justified pulling the trigger
(I'm pretty happy with my stable, but I'm missing something to do
bikepacking with - was thinking Wolverine, but then - you know -
that NYT article came out; plus I just got rid of the monthly boat
anchor at the local marina).

So, given the choice for the same price and knowing I can't go
wrong either way, would you pick a Riv or L'Avecaise?

I'm just interested in hearing some different points of view
because my feeble brain isn't capable of thinking of every angle
of consideration!

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA




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Re: [RBW] Re: My Debate

[Patrick Moore]

Jock: It seems that you already have a pretty darned nice collection. That
Soma looks very rideable indeed, not to mention pretty.

Why did you dump the Litespeed if it felt so good?

Patrick Moore, who also ought to be riding more and buying less - but who
still has a few other possibilities in mind 

On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 8:49 AM, Jock Dewey  wrote:

> Hey, Bill:
>
> Definitely YES, do the L'Avecaise! Then c'mon over to Athens so I can have
> a go at it.
>
> My quandry is, I haven't had skinny tubes since those days my Eisentraut
> (now hanging up) was on the road. What if L'Avecaise was so magical my
> Ebisu or Ram no longer came out of the house? Oh, that would be sad because
> I'm so fond of both (and after 13 years just had JB respray Ram).
>
> Of course, much of this mystifies me. I built Soma--nice stainless
> headlugs--a couple years ago with a bunch of nice bits I'd been collecting.
> (I got pro-deal on frame so it was really inexpensive.) Despite frame specs
> at which many would scoff, I grab this bike all the time as I love the way
> it 'feels'. I guess I still don't know what that quite means totally, even
> after more than 60 years aboard. To wit, I ride Ebisu all day, then hop on
> the yellow bike and despite its on-paper shortcomings, it's full of life.
> Sprightly, comfortable and fast, too. When I'm challenged by my kid to keep
> his wheel, I often grab Soma.
>
> Last spring I had some time on a rainy day, my wife was in CA with family,
> so I took off bags, pumps, water bottles--but left on fenders, pedals,
> etc--and crudely weighed them all on a hanging scale. I must admit, I
> wasn't sure I really wanted to know. Surprise, surprise, pleasant
> surprise...they all weighed about 24 1/2 lbs. As comparison (and to make
> sure scale was sort-of working), Waterford AC1900 came in at 28 lbs. and
> kid's Columbus Bianchi racing bike with featherweight Chronometro Aerohead
> wheels weighed in at just ever so slightly over 23 lbs. Wow.
>
> (Oh, another data point, all my bikes share same wheel spec, i.e. Open Pro
> / 32 / XTR hubs / 15g spokes / light, responsive 30mm tires. All other
> very-nice components quite similar).
>
> So now I wonder/ponder, thinking back to other bikes and experiences,
> tandems included, I recall being stunned when I first rode my now-long-gone
> Litespeed. THAT was breathtaking...so so so light. Oh my gosh. I was
> instantly 20 years younger.
>
> Therefore, what is the mystical IT? Is there a mystical IT? I'm thinking
> weight, other spex relatively equal, really does have something quite
> crucial to say about *it. *
>
> I guess what I'm realizing is (and answering my own question), at this
> point, I should probably just quit while I'm ahead. Enticing as today's
> choices are and they ARE enticing, perhaps more so than they've ever been,
> maybe I should continue to ride and care for the joys I gots rather than
> entertain dreams of the ones I ain't gots.
>
> But, Bill, if you DO pull the trigger and go L'Avecaise, still c'mon over
> so I can admire. And you would let me ride it around the block, right?
>
> Oh and BTW, someone once told me 'the best day is when you buy a boat and
> the next best day is when you sell it.'
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>
>
> On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 10:56:32 PM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA
> wrote:
>>
>> The little devil on my shoulder awoke when I saw that Jeff Lyon wants to
>> move some L'Avecaise frames out with fork and headset (customer gets to
>> pick the single, solid paint color). I'd been thinking Riv for years, but
>> never justified pulling the trigger (I'm pretty happy with my stable, but
>> I'm missing something to do bikepacking with - was thinking Wolverine, but
>> then - you know - that NYT article came out; plus I just got rid of the
>> monthly boat anchor at the local marina).
>>
>> So, given the choice for the same price and knowing I can't go wrong
>> either way, would you pick a Riv or L'Avecaise?
>>
>> I'm just interested in hearing some different points of view because my
>> feeble brain isn't capable of thinking of every angle of consideration!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill in Roswell, GA
>>
>>
>>
>> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Chris Birkenmaier]

I* saw that Jeff Lyon wants to move some L'Avecaise frames out with fork 
and headset *

May I ask where you saw this information?  I looked up his website and 
didn't see anything on a sale or promotion.
thanks!

On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 10:56:32 PM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:

> The little devil on my shoulder awoke when I saw that Jeff Lyon wants to 
> move some L'Avecaise frames out with fork and headset (customer gets to 
> pick the single, solid paint color). I'd been thinking Riv for years, but 
> never justified pulling the trigger (I'm pretty happy with my stable, but 
> I'm missing something to do bikepacking with - was thinking Wolverine, but 
> then - you know - that NYT article came out; plus I just got rid of the 
> monthly boat anchor at the local marina).
>
> So, given the choice for the same price and knowing I can't go wrong 
> either way, would you pick a Riv or L'Avecaise? 
>
> I'm just interested in hearing some different points of view because my 
> feeble brain isn't capable of thinking of every angle of consideration!
>
> Cheers,
> Bill in Roswell, GA 
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[ascpgh]

Fast front loader? All road, all load? Specifics matter.

Generally. I could see myself with one of each. I'm halfway there!

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, December 12, 2016 at 10:56:32 PM UTC-5, Bill in Roswell GA wrote:
>
> The little devil on my shoulder awoke when I saw that Jeff Lyon wants to 
> move some L'Avecaise frames out with fork and headset (customer gets to 
> pick the single, solid paint color). I'd been thinking Riv for years, but 
> never justified pulling the trigger (I'm pretty happy with my stable, but 
> I'm missing something to do bikepacking with - was thinking Wolverine, but 
> then - you know - that NYT article came out; plus I just got rid of the 
> monthly boat anchor at the local marina).
>
> So, given the choice for the same price and knowing I can't go wrong 
> either way, would you pick a Riv or L'Avecaise? 
>
> I'm just interested in hearing some different points of view because my 
> feeble brain isn't capable of thinking of every angle of consideration!
>
> Cheers,
> Bill in Roswell, GA 
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Belopsky]

I am interested to see what the Roadini will be, but since it's probably a 
cheaper TIGd Roadeo, I think my BJ Audax E-E fills that void. A Lyon 
however could be added (or similar)

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Tony DeFilippo]

What's the NYT article on the Wolverine?

If bike packing is the hole your looking to fill in your stable and you've had 
your eye on Riv's I think that's your answer... One of the 650b Atlanti or June 
would be sweet.

That being said those Lyon's appear to be a great bike at an attainable price 
point!

Tony

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[RBW] Re: My Debate

[Les Lammers]

On Tuesday, December 13, 2016 at 12:14:02 AM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> What debate?  The obvious answer is both. The L'Avecaise is not a bike 
> packing bike. It's a cyclotouring bike at most. The Riv model it most 
> resembles would be a Roadeo. If you want a real touring bike or a bike 
> packing bike, the Lyon is not necessarily that.  But if you want a light 
> flexible road machine for fat tires, the Rivendell is maybe overbuilt.  You 
> really need one of each, or maybe need to clear out your existing stable to 
> make room 


+1 and/or you could wait and see what the Roadini project provides.  

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