Re: [RBW] Re: New chain skipping
...and I agree with you agreeing with me... On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 1:54:38 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 13:26 -0700, William wrote: > > > > I agree 70% of the time in the large chainring (mine's a 44) is not > > controversial. But I use my 44x11 less than 1% of the time. If I > > used my 44x11 for 2700 miles my knees would be gone, and that 11T cog > > would be shot. > > And I agree with what you just said. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/ALIWvzpeqwsJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: New chain skipping
On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 13:26 -0700, William wrote: > > I agree 70% of the time in the large chainring (mine's a 44) is not > controversial. But I use my 44x11 less than 1% of the time. If I > used my 44x11 for 2700 miles my knees would be gone, and that 11T cog > would be shot. And I agree with what you just said. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: New chain skipping
"And it is in the smallest cog on the cassette in the largest chain ring. That's where I do most of my riding - probably 70% of the time." I must've misread it then. I see that telling me smallest cog on the cassette in the largest chain ringprobably 70% of the time. I agree 70% of the time in the large chainring (mine's a 44) is not controversial. But I use my 44x11 less than 1% of the time. If I used my 44x11 for 2700 miles my knees would be gone, and that 11T cog would be shot. On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 12:59:50 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: > > On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 12:33 -0700, William wrote: > > I mean this in the nicest possible way, but unless I'm > > misunderstanding something terribly, there's no way you should be > > spending 70% of your time riding in your highest gear. It makes my > > knees hurt just thinking about it. > > He said 70% of his time in the big ring, not in his highest gear. If > your big ring is geared low enough, for example a 46 or 48T, you might > not have to shift to a smaller chain ring until you need a gear lower > than 50 inches or so. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/XZIC0sgF48QJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New chain skipping
Ah ha! You ride in this smallest cog most of the time! Take another look but the back side of the teeth on that cog are most likely cupped (increasing slope of the tooth until it becomes an overhang near the top). This is good news as buying a new final cog is easy and much cheaper than a whole cassette. This is also bad news as you are riding in your biggest gear all the time. Something is wrong here. You either need much higher gearing, or more likely, your leg speed is really slow and you need to learn to use your gears more efficently. You want a leg speed of something at or greater to 70 rpm on the flats, 90 rpm is better. On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 11:59:56 AM UTC-6, pam wrote: > I tried looking at the cog but I can't tell much. I'm not very > mechanical. I'll look at the chainring too. It wasn't knocked out of > adjustment because I watched him install it. I checked the master > link. It looks ok. It may be the derailleur but I have friction > shifters so I wouldn't think it was that. I'm not going to make any > adjustments. I'll take it back to the LBS to check. It's not very > often - just twice in 14 miles yesterday. > > And it is in the smallest cog on the cassette in the largest chain > ring. That's where I do most of my riding - probably 70% of the > time. > > On Apr 16, 11:32 am, Peter Morgano wrote: > > Only skipping in smallest cog makes me think it is a deraileur > adjustment, > > maybe they knocked it out of whack a bit on the install. Did you try > > adjusting the tension back there? I dont know your level of expertise > but > > if you havent done this kind of thing before just remember to go slow > and > > make small adjustments or else you will have it back at the LBS paying > them > > to do it. The late great Sheldon Brown has a few articles on the net > about > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:26 AM, pam wrote: > > > More detail - the chain and cassette were new last May from > > > Rivendell. I've ridden about 2700 miles and I just learned about > > > keeping the chain clean so I understood I needed a new chain. The new > > > chain does have a master link. If the cassette is worn, do I replace > > > the whole thing? I've only noticed the skipping in the smallest cog. > > > Can the cog just be replaced or the whole thing? I'll look at the cog > > > and try to see. > > > > > On Apr 15, 8:39 pm, newenglandbike wrote: > > > > Hi Pam, > > > > > > I'd maybe take a look at your cogs and chainrings (if you haven't > > > replaced > > > > those too), and make sure that the teeth aren't too worn.You'll > know > > > if > > > > the teeth end in sharp points like a shark fin. > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:31:56 PM UTC-4, pam wrote: > > > > > > > I just got a new chain after LBS told me the old one was worn out. > > > > > The new one occasionally skips. The old one never did. What's > the > > > > > problem? > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/hCa03hmuMaQJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: New chain skipping
On Tue, 2012-04-17 at 12:33 -0700, William wrote: > I mean this in the nicest possible way, but unless I'm > misunderstanding something terribly, there's no way you should be > spending 70% of your time riding in your highest gear. It makes my > knees hurt just thinking about it. He said 70% of his time in the big ring, not in his highest gear. If your big ring is geared low enough, for example a 46 or 48T, you might not have to shift to a smaller chain ring until you need a gear lower than 50 inches or so. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New chain skipping
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but unless I'm misunderstanding something terribly, there's no way you should be spending 70% of your time riding in your highest gear. It makes my knees hurt just thinking about it. You should be trying to ride in approximately the 90-100RPM range. "Spinners" might tell you higher. "Mashers" might tell you lower. 90-100 is a good medium. If I was riding in my highest gear at 90RPM, I'd be going 30MPH. I use my highest gear much less than 1% of the time. Completely separate from drivetrain wear, I recommend you get some advice on that front. Focussing on drivetrain wear, if you ride 2700 miles on a single 12 or 11 tooth cog, it's probably worn out. Replace. On Tuesday, April 17, 2012 10:59:56 AM UTC-7, pam wrote: > > I tried looking at the cog but I can't tell much. I'm not very > mechanical. I'll look at the chainring too. It wasn't knocked out of > adjustment because I watched him install it. I checked the master > link. It looks ok. It may be the derailleur but I have friction > shifters so I wouldn't think it was that. I'm not going to make any > adjustments. I'll take it back to the LBS to check. It's not very > often - just twice in 14 miles yesterday. > > And it is in the smallest cog on the cassette in the largest chain > ring. That's where I do most of my riding - probably 70% of the > time. > > On Apr 16, 11:32 am, Peter Morgano wrote: > > Only skipping in smallest cog makes me think it is a deraileur > adjustment, > > maybe they knocked it out of whack a bit on the install. Did you try > > adjusting the tension back there? I dont know your level of expertise > but > > if you havent done this kind of thing before just remember to go slow > and > > make small adjustments or else you will have it back at the LBS paying > them > > to do it. The late great Sheldon Brown has a few articles on the net > about > > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:26 AM, pam wrote: > > > More detail - the chain and cassette were new last May from > > > Rivendell. I've ridden about 2700 miles and I just learned about > > > keeping the chain clean so I understood I needed a new chain. The new > > > chain does have a master link. If the cassette is worn, do I replace > > > the whole thing? I've only noticed the skipping in the smallest cog. > > > Can the cog just be replaced or the whole thing? I'll look at the cog > > > and try to see. > > > > > On Apr 15, 8:39 pm, newenglandbike wrote: > > > > Hi Pam, > > > > > > I'd maybe take a look at your cogs and chainrings (if you haven't > > > replaced > > > > those too), and make sure that the teeth aren't too worn.You'll > know > > > if > > > > the teeth end in sharp points like a shark fin. > > > > > > Matt > > > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:31:56 PM UTC-4, pam wrote: > > > > > > > I just got a new chain after LBS told me the old one was worn out. > > > > > The new one occasionally skips. The old one never did. What's > the > > > > > problem? > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > For more options, visit this group at > > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/omtfxlaKv0cJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New chain skipping
I tried looking at the cog but I can't tell much. I'm not very mechanical. I'll look at the chainring too. It wasn't knocked out of adjustment because I watched him install it. I checked the master link. It looks ok. It may be the derailleur but I have friction shifters so I wouldn't think it was that. I'm not going to make any adjustments. I'll take it back to the LBS to check. It's not very often - just twice in 14 miles yesterday. And it is in the smallest cog on the cassette in the largest chain ring. That's where I do most of my riding - probably 70% of the time. On Apr 16, 11:32 am, Peter Morgano wrote: > Only skipping in smallest cog makes me think it is a deraileur adjustment, > maybe they knocked it out of whack a bit on the install. Did you try > adjusting the tension back there? I dont know your level of expertise but > if you havent done this kind of thing before just remember to go slow and > make small adjustments or else you will have it back at the LBS paying them > to do it. The late great Sheldon Brown has a few articles on the net about > it. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:26 AM, pam wrote: > > More detail - the chain and cassette were new last May from > > Rivendell. I've ridden about 2700 miles and I just learned about > > keeping the chain clean so I understood I needed a new chain. The new > > chain does have a master link. If the cassette is worn, do I replace > > the whole thing? I've only noticed the skipping in the smallest cog. > > Can the cog just be replaced or the whole thing? I'll look at the cog > > and try to see. > > > On Apr 15, 8:39 pm, newenglandbike wrote: > > > Hi Pam, > > > > I'd maybe take a look at your cogs and chainrings (if you haven't > > replaced > > > those too), and make sure that the teeth aren't too worn. You'll know > > if > > > the teeth end in sharp points like a shark fin. > > > > Matt > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:31:56 PM UTC-4, pam wrote: > > > > > I just got a new chain after LBS told me the old one was worn out. > > > > The new one occasionally skips. The old one never did. What's the > > > > problem? > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New chain skipping
I needed a small chainring when I did my winter overhaul on the Hilsen. New chain and the hooky teeth wanted to pull it up like precursor to chainsuck. They were pretty sharkfin-ish. On Monday, April 16, 2012 11:48:18 AM UTC-7, Lynne Fitz wrote: > > Check your chainrings. That was the problem I had, once. Replaced > the chain. Replaced the cassette. Finally took it into the shop. > Head mechanic: "did no one look at your chainrings?" > > Bleriot's chainrings (13500+ mi) are starting to look suspect, but > nothing is skipping... yet. > > Lynne > > On Apr 16, 9:16 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery > wrote: > > If it is the smallest cog only, then the stiff link hypothesis has a > point in its favor, as the stiff link will be most obvious on the smallest > cog, which has the tightest curvature. > > > > You can generally buy a small cog for your cassette if it turns out to > be worn. Seems unlikely, because most people don't ride many miles on the > smallest cog...unless they're also riding in one of the smaller chainrings. > This "cross-chaining" practice prematurely wears cogs, rings, and chains > and should be avoided. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/nQ0Q25aq_dcJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New chain skipping
Check your chainrings. That was the problem I had, once. Replaced the chain. Replaced the cassette. Finally took it into the shop. Head mechanic: "did no one look at your chainrings?" Bleriot's chainrings (13500+ mi) are starting to look suspect, but nothing is skipping... yet. Lynne On Apr 16, 9:16 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery wrote: > If it is the smallest cog only, then the stiff link hypothesis has a point in > its favor, as the stiff link will be most obvious on the smallest cog, which > has the tightest curvature. > > You can generally buy a small cog for your cassette if it turns out to be > worn. Seems unlikely, because most people don't ride many miles on the > smallest cog...unless they're also riding in one of the smaller chainrings. > This "cross-chaining" practice prematurely wears cogs, rings, and chains and > should be avoided. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New chain skipping
If it is the smallest cog only, then the stiff link hypothesis has a point in its favor, as the stiff link will be most obvious on the smallest cog, which has the tightest curvature. You can generally buy a small cog for your cassette if it turns out to be worn. Seems unlikely, because most people don't ride many miles on the smallest cog...unless they're also riding in one of the smaller chainrings. This "cross-chaining" practice prematurely wears cogs, rings, and chains and should be avoided. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/IzfO642LFRAJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: New chain skipping
Only skipping in smallest cog makes me think it is a deraileur adjustment, maybe they knocked it out of whack a bit on the install. Did you try adjusting the tension back there? I dont know your level of expertise but if you havent done this kind of thing before just remember to go slow and make small adjustments or else you will have it back at the LBS paying them to do it. The late great Sheldon Brown has a few articles on the net about it. On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:26 AM, pam wrote: > More detail - the chain and cassette were new last May from > Rivendell. I've ridden about 2700 miles and I just learned about > keeping the chain clean so I understood I needed a new chain. The new > chain does have a master link. If the cassette is worn, do I replace > the whole thing? I've only noticed the skipping in the smallest cog. > Can the cog just be replaced or the whole thing? I'll look at the cog > and try to see. > > > On Apr 15, 8:39 pm, newenglandbike wrote: > > Hi Pam, > > > > I'd maybe take a look at your cogs and chainrings (if you haven't > replaced > > those too), and make sure that the teeth aren't too worn.You'll know > if > > the teeth end in sharp points like a shark fin. > > > > Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:31:56 PM UTC-4, pam wrote: > > > > > I just got a new chain after LBS told me the old one was worn out. > > > The new one occasionally skips. The old one never did. What's the > > > problem? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New chain skipping
More detail - the chain and cassette were new last May from Rivendell. I've ridden about 2700 miles and I just learned about keeping the chain clean so I understood I needed a new chain. The new chain does have a master link. If the cassette is worn, do I replace the whole thing? I've only noticed the skipping in the smallest cog. Can the cog just be replaced or the whole thing? I'll look at the cog and try to see. On Apr 15, 8:39 pm, newenglandbike wrote: > Hi Pam, > > I'd maybe take a look at your cogs and chainrings (if you haven't replaced > those too), and make sure that the teeth aren't too worn. You'll know if > the teeth end in sharp points like a shark fin. > > Matt > > > > > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:31:56 PM UTC-4, pam wrote: > > > I just got a new chain after LBS told me the old one was worn out. > > The new one occasionally skips. The old one never did. What's the > > problem? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: New chain skipping
That would be the answer. Replacing a worn chain resulting in skipping should always make you think "worn cassette". If no amount of adjusting dials it in, it's time for a new cassette. I didn't see the original thread here, but if you're using a master link, make sure it's installed properly. If it isn't seated properly, it may be shorter than it should be at that link. If you have a Wipperman link, there's an orientation that you need to worry about. Barring that, new cassette. Joe Joe Bartoe Synaptic Cycles Bicycle Rentals, Inc. email: j...@synapticcycles.com website: www.synapticcycles.com Twitter: @synapticcycles phone: 949-374-6079 > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:12:06 -0700 > Subject: [RBW] Re: New chain skipping > From: tki...@comcast.net > To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com > > I agree. Both of those answers are probably the two most likely > suspects. Your old chain and your cassette wore together, and when you > put the new chain on, it revealed the wear in the cassette that was > hidden before. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New chain skipping
I agree. Both of those answers are probably the two most likely suspects. Your old chain and your cassette wore together, and when you put the new chain on, it revealed the wear in the cassette that was hidden before. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: New chain skipping
Maybe a stiff link in the new chain? On Apr 15, 2012 8:39 PM, "newenglandbike" wrote: > Hi Pam, > > I'd maybe take a look at your cogs and chainrings (if you haven't replaced > those too), and make sure that the teeth aren't too worn.You'll know if > the teeth end in sharp points like a shark fin. > > Matt > > > > On Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:31:56 PM UTC-4, pam wrote: >> >> I just got a new chain after LBS told me the old one was worn out. >> The new one occasionally skips. The old one never did. What's the >> problem? >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/saol7PpmEBUJ. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: New chain skipping
Hi Pam, I'd maybe take a look at your cogs and chainrings (if you haven't replaced those too), and make sure that the teeth aren't too worn.You'll know if the teeth end in sharp points like a shark fin. Matt On Sunday, April 15, 2012 8:31:56 PM UTC-4, pam wrote: > > I just got a new chain after LBS told me the old one was worn out. > The new one occasionally skips. The old one never did. What's the > problem? > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/saol7PpmEBUJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
