[RBW] Re: The Riv goes "Spinal Tap"
The bike nerdery is the best part of the whole thing. This is the one place that we can all appreciate it. Thanks for the post. Friction and bar ends are the way to go! On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 12:02:54 PM UTC-5 Drew Saunders wrote: > Nick, > > Thanks for that information. This explains all the various options well: > https://brainybiker.com/can-you-put-an-11-speed-cassette-on-a-10-speed-hub-fast-answer/ > > Shimano’s SLX line is reasonably affordable, and they make an 11-40. More > stuff to contemplate for next winter. > > Drew > > On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 2:23:27 AM UTC-8 Nick Payne wrote: > >> On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 9:11:13 am UTC+11 Drew Saunders wrote: >> >> The hub on the Ibis is 8/9/10 only, but I may convert it to 2x10 next >> rainy season. >> >> >> The Shimano 11-34 11s cassettes fit fine on 8/9/10-speed HG hubs. As do >> all the larger 11s MTB cassettes. The bracing angle of the spokes means >> that the large cog on those cassettes can sit further inwards than the >> large cog on smaller cassettes, so they are made with the large cog >> overhanging to the inside, and will fit on the older hubs. If you fit one >> of those cassettes to a hub intended for 11s road cassettes, you need to >> fit a 1.8mm spacer on the inside of the cassette, or the lockring will >> bottom out before it has tightened on the cassette. >> >> Nick Payne >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ad945eb8-9470-4f5e-b4a5-7178ca611a5en%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: The Riv goes "Spinal Tap"
Nick, Thanks for that information. This explains all the various options well: https://brainybiker.com/can-you-put-an-11-speed-cassette-on-a-10-speed-hub-fast-answer/ Shimano’s SLX line is reasonably affordable, and they make an 11-40. More stuff to contemplate for next winter. Drew On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 2:23:27 AM UTC-8 Nick Payne wrote: > On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 9:11:13 am UTC+11 Drew Saunders wrote: > > The hub on the Ibis is 8/9/10 only, but I may convert it to 2x10 next > rainy season. > > > The Shimano 11-34 11s cassettes fit fine on 8/9/10-speed HG hubs. As do > all the larger 11s MTB cassettes. The bracing angle of the spokes means > that the large cog on those cassettes can sit further inwards than the > large cog on smaller cassettes, so they are made with the large cog > overhanging to the inside, and will fit on the older hubs. If you fit one > of those cassettes to a hub intended for 11s road cassettes, you need to > fit a 1.8mm spacer on the inside of the cassette, or the lockring will > bottom out before it has tightened on the cassette. > > Nick Payne > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/9cf13fc2-0ed0-43e7-9f11-6449e861cbcbn%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: The Riv goes "Spinal Tap"
On Sunday, 26 February 2023 at 9:11:13 am UTC+11 Drew Saunders wrote: The hub on the Ibis is 8/9/10 only, but I may convert it to 2x10 next rainy season. The Shimano 11-34 11s cassettes fit fine on 8/9/10-speed HG hubs. As do all the larger 11s MTB cassettes. The bracing angle of the spokes means that the large cog on those cassettes can sit further inwards than the large cog on smaller cassettes, so they are made with the large cog overhanging to the inside, and will fit on the older hubs. If you fit one of those cassettes to a hub intended for 11s road cassettes, you need to fit a 1.8mm spacer on the inside of the cassette, or the lockring will bottom out before it has tightened on the cassette. Nick Payne -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ca1b6786-bbb2-472d-874c-eba824fe5523n%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: The Riv goes "Spinal Tap"
Thanks, Luke and Ryan, for the kind comments. There was enough of a break in the rain to take it out for a ride today. I’m visiting my mom in Florida next week, so I won’t get in another ride for a while. The 11 speed friction shifting with Silver bar-ends and my old Ultegra 9-speed RD worked great! I didn’t miss a single downshift, only shifted two cogs where I wanted to shift one once, and only had a little grumbling on one upshift, which was easily corrected. With a bit more practice, it’ll be smoother than my 9 speed indexed shifting. It’s already *Much* quieter! Oddly, even though I have a more standard high-normal RD (Rapid Rise is also called “low normal,” with the difference being which end of the range the derailleur goes to with no cable tension), I found it easier to downshift than up. I suppose this is the result of 40 years of refinements to the chains and cassettes for indexing making them so easy to friction shift. Being old, I learned on a 2x5 “10 speed” with downtube Shimano 600 friction shifting. My 1989 college graduation present was a Bianchi Volpe with Suntour 3x7 indexed, and Suntour didn’t index very well, so I switched it to friction after a year or so. My next experience with friction was when the 8 speed bar-end shifters on my Ibis Mojo MTB got sloppy after about 12 years, so the derailleur didn’t consistently get to the right spot, so I moved the adjuster to friction and used them that way for a season, then converted that bike to 3x9 indexed. Shimano clearly learned a lesson, as my 9 speed bar-cons are much stiffer than the 8, but have lasted 15+ years without any change in the quality of their shifting. Still, that stiffness can be a bother. As expected for a flat ride, I never moved the front derailleur, and somehow got it in just the right spot so I didn’t have to trim it to avoid chain rub as I ran the whole cassette. I didn’t really need the 42-28, I just wanted to test the whole range a couple of times. I’m not sure if I just had great luck, or if I’ll be able to consistently find this sweet spot, we’ll see after I try a hillier ride and use the small ring. I kept reaching for the left shifter out of habit, but I’ll be happy to do most of my rides in “one-by” mode. The hub on the Ibis is 8/9/10 only, but I may convert it to 2x10 next rainy season. Drew On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 4:38:08 AM UTC-8 Ryan wrote: > I remember you writing about that bike! Nice! I'm glad you still have it.I > think it was the reason I ordered a 2nd Riv , a Riv road in 2000...and I > almost went for red but switched to Harvest Gold > > Off-topic...I can relate about working in IT and being on-call. Before I > retired in 2018 from Canada Life as a software developer, I was on call > either from 6am to 6pm or 24X7 for roughly one week per month and the 24X7 > shifts meant you were pretty much tethered to the homestead...and of > course, once the phone rings or pager goes off, you have to get on it. And > just try going back to sleep after fixing a problem at 3am. Don't miss it, > that's for sure > > On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 1:28:47 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson wrote: > >> >> Drew, >> >> This bike is utterly perfect! Great choice in gearing, too. >> On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 3:03:56 PM UTC-8 Drew Saunders wrote: >> >>> "This goes to eleven!" >>> After having to get a new rear wheel for my 1999 Red Rivendell, which >>> came with a spacer to use less than 11 speeds (I had a 9-speed cassette), I >>> got to thinking, then I got to budgeting, then I got to buying and today, >>> since I'm on call for work (I work in IT, and one week in 10 I have to be >>> on call should some important network device have issues off hours, so I >>> don't go on long bike rides on my on-call weekend), I decided to change my >>> Riv from 3x9 to 2x11. It now "goes to eleven!" just like Nigel Tufnel's >>> amps! >>> >>> I ordered the silver bar-end shifters and pods and hoped that everyone >>> was correct in that these would shift 11 speeds with a traditional 9-speed >>> rear derailleur. I have an Ultegra "long cage" from about 15 years ago (?) >>> that has served me well, and still works fine. Spoiler alert: works fine! >>> >>> I had originally wanted to get the Rene Herse cranks, but they were >>> perpetually out of stock, then Soma had their big holiday sale, so I got >>> the New Albion 26-42-chainguard cranks and IRD BB for about 1/3 of the >>> price of the Rene Herse. >>> >>> I found a Campagnolo Croce D'Aune front derailleur on Ebay from the UK >>> which the previous owner had scrubbed so well it looked new. This FD is >>> probably from 1990 or so. >>> >>> I added a SRAM chain and 11-28 cassette, and I also picked up new >>> Ritchey pedals (my previous ones were quite worn out) and Newbaum's padded >>> cotton bar tape. >>> >>> I don't have a garage, so have to drag my stand out of storage and use >>> the micro back "yard" behind my apartment
[RBW] Re: The Riv goes "Spinal Tap"
I remember you writing about that bike! Nice! I'm glad you still have it.I think it was the reason I ordered a 2nd Riv , a Riv road in 2000...and I almost went for red but switched to Harvest Gold Off-topic...I can relate about working in IT and being on-call. Before I retired in 2018 from Canada Life as a software developer, I was on call either from 6am to 6pm or 24X7 for roughly one week per month and the 24X7 shifts meant you were pretty much tethered to the homestead...and of course, once the phone rings or pager goes off, you have to get on it. And just try going back to sleep after fixing a problem at 3am. Don't miss it, that's for sure On Tuesday, February 21, 2023 at 1:28:47 AM UTC-6 Luke Hendrickson wrote: > > Drew, > > This bike is utterly perfect! Great choice in gearing, too. > On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 3:03:56 PM UTC-8 Drew Saunders wrote: > >> "This goes to eleven!" >> After having to get a new rear wheel for my 1999 Red Rivendell, which >> came with a spacer to use less than 11 speeds (I had a 9-speed cassette), I >> got to thinking, then I got to budgeting, then I got to buying and today, >> since I'm on call for work (I work in IT, and one week in 10 I have to be >> on call should some important network device have issues off hours, so I >> don't go on long bike rides on my on-call weekend), I decided to change my >> Riv from 3x9 to 2x11. It now "goes to eleven!" just like Nigel Tufnel's >> amps! >> >> I ordered the silver bar-end shifters and pods and hoped that everyone >> was correct in that these would shift 11 speeds with a traditional 9-speed >> rear derailleur. I have an Ultegra "long cage" from about 15 years ago (?) >> that has served me well, and still works fine. Spoiler alert: works fine! >> >> I had originally wanted to get the Rene Herse cranks, but they were >> perpetually out of stock, then Soma had their big holiday sale, so I got >> the New Albion 26-42-chainguard cranks and IRD BB for about 1/3 of the >> price of the Rene Herse. >> >> I found a Campagnolo Croce D'Aune front derailleur on Ebay from the UK >> which the previous owner had scrubbed so well it looked new. This FD is >> probably from 1990 or so. >> >> I added a SRAM chain and 11-28 cassette, and I also picked up new Ritchey >> pedals (my previous ones were quite worn out) and Newbaum's padded cotton >> bar tape. >> >> I don't have a garage, so have to drag my stand out of storage and use >> the micro back "yard" behind my apartment when I want to work on my bikes, >> so it's a good thing that it's a warm and sunny February day. >> >> Before: >> [image: 1-Before.jpg] >> >> Here she is, nearly naked! >> [image: 4-Cleaned-up-wide.jpg] >> >> I bottomed out the barrel adjuster, backed out the low set screw, and got >> the RD to shift the whole range pretty easily! Here's the 42-28, which >> doesn't overly stress the chain, and makes no funky noises. >> [image: 5-42-28-works!.jpg] >> >> Yes, the Riv stubby FD would probably work better, than the Campy, but >> how pretty is this? >> [image: 6-Campy-and-New-Albion.jpg] >> >> Let's just say my bar wrapping and twine finishing look good for "20/20" >> vision: If you're 20 or more feet away and/or I'm going 20 or more mph! >> (Oh, the padded Newbaum's need at least 10' of twine per side, so the teal >> twine I ordered didn't work, but my wife will happily use it). I chose this >> blue as it's closest to the blue for Colon Cancer awareness, plus I was >> getting bored of black tape. When this bar tape starts getting gaps, I >> think I'll get the padded cloth tape again, as it does seem very >> comfortable. I can do a lot of work on my bike well enough, I just can't >> wrap bars to save my life, and, yes I watched the Riv YouTube video 3 times >> before starting! >> [image: 7-All-Done.jpg] >> >> I took it around the neighborhood and the shifting is really smooth, and >> absolutely silent! I'm sure it'll get noisy in time, but I didn't miss a >> shift once. There's a tiny steep hill that I tested the 42x28 and 26x28 >> (spinning away like an eggbeater, it's not that steep) and can confirm that >> the gearing works as I like. >> >> I'm going to keep the Suntour triple FD, Sugino crank, and 9-speed >> bar-ends for a future bike build, as those are getting hard to find. >> >> Now for some bike nerdery, and if you're not interested in gear charts >> and so forth, just look at the pretty pictures! >> I used to have 24-36-46, 11-23 9-speed (I like small hops), and tested >> out how much I would miss the large gear by only using the 46x12 instead of >> the 11 for the past 6 months or so. I didn't really miss it, so I knew a >> 42x11 would be fine (essentially the same gear as a 46x12). I also wanted >> to not shift my FD much, only when going up the steep hills, so I wanted a >> "one-by" most of the time, except when I head up the Santa Cruz mountains. >> I'm fine with only using 8 out of 11 cogs with the 26. The
[RBW] Re: The Riv goes "Spinal Tap"
Drew, This bike is utterly perfect! Great choice in gearing, too. On Monday, February 20, 2023 at 3:03:56 PM UTC-8 Drew Saunders wrote: > "This goes to eleven!" > After having to get a new rear wheel for my 1999 Red Rivendell, which came > with a spacer to use less than 11 speeds (I had a 9-speed cassette), I got > to thinking, then I got to budgeting, then I got to buying and today, since > I'm on call for work (I work in IT, and one week in 10 I have to be on call > should some important network device have issues off hours, so I don't go > on long bike rides on my on-call weekend), I decided to change my Riv from > 3x9 to 2x11. It now "goes to eleven!" just like Nigel Tufnel's amps! > > I ordered the silver bar-end shifters and pods and hoped that everyone was > correct in that these would shift 11 speeds with a traditional 9-speed rear > derailleur. I have an Ultegra "long cage" from about 15 years ago (?) that > has served me well, and still works fine. Spoiler alert: works fine! > > I had originally wanted to get the Rene Herse cranks, but they were > perpetually out of stock, then Soma had their big holiday sale, so I got > the New Albion 26-42-chainguard cranks and IRD BB for about 1/3 of the > price of the Rene Herse. > > I found a Campagnolo Croce D'Aune front derailleur on Ebay from the UK > which the previous owner had scrubbed so well it looked new. This FD is > probably from 1990 or so. > > I added a SRAM chain and 11-28 cassette, and I also picked up new Ritchey > pedals (my previous ones were quite worn out) and Newbaum's padded cotton > bar tape. > > I don't have a garage, so have to drag my stand out of storage and use the > micro back "yard" behind my apartment when I want to work on my bikes, so > it's a good thing that it's a warm and sunny February day. > > Before: > [image: 1-Before.jpg] > > Here she is, nearly naked! > [image: 4-Cleaned-up-wide.jpg] > > I bottomed out the barrel adjuster, backed out the low set screw, and got > the RD to shift the whole range pretty easily! Here's the 42-28, which > doesn't overly stress the chain, and makes no funky noises. > [image: 5-42-28-works!.jpg] > > Yes, the Riv stubby FD would probably work better, than the Campy, but how > pretty is this? > [image: 6-Campy-and-New-Albion.jpg] > > Let's just say my bar wrapping and twine finishing look good for "20/20" > vision: If you're 20 or more feet away and/or I'm going 20 or more mph! > (Oh, the padded Newbaum's need at least 10' of twine per side, so the teal > twine I ordered didn't work, but my wife will happily use it). I chose this > blue as it's closest to the blue for Colon Cancer awareness, plus I was > getting bored of black tape. When this bar tape starts getting gaps, I > think I'll get the padded cloth tape again, as it does seem very > comfortable. I can do a lot of work on my bike well enough, I just can't > wrap bars to save my life, and, yes I watched the Riv YouTube video 3 times > before starting! > [image: 7-All-Done.jpg] > > I took it around the neighborhood and the shifting is really smooth, and > absolutely silent! I'm sure it'll get noisy in time, but I didn't miss a > shift once. There's a tiny steep hill that I tested the 42x28 and 26x28 > (spinning away like an eggbeater, it's not that steep) and can confirm that > the gearing works as I like. > > I'm going to keep the Suntour triple FD, Sugino crank, and 9-speed > bar-ends for a future bike build, as those are getting hard to find. > > Now for some bike nerdery, and if you're not interested in gear charts and > so forth, just look at the pretty pictures! > I used to have 24-36-46, 11-23 9-speed (I like small hops), and tested out > how much I would miss the large gear by only using the 46x12 instead of the > 11 for the past 6 months or so. I didn't really miss it, so I knew a 42x11 > would be fine (essentially the same gear as a 46x12). I also wanted to not > shift my FD much, only when going up the steep hills, so I wanted a > "one-by" most of the time, except when I head up the Santa Cruz mountains. > I'm fine with only using 8 out of 11 cogs with the 26. The chain isn't too > slack in the 26x14, so that will suit me fine. I cut the new chain 1 link > pair longer than the previous one. > > If you want to compare my before and after gearing, see here: > http://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=DERS=24,36,46=11,12,13,14,15,17,19,21,23=2150=90=3=KMH=teeth=DERS=26,42=11,12,13,14,15,16,17,19,22,25,28=2150 > > SRAM, Shimano and Microshift have different 11-28 11-speeds. SRAM and > Microshift have 11-19 for the 8 highest cogs, but SRAM (which I chose) > finished with 22-25-28, Microshift finishes with 21-24-28. Shimano drops > the 16, and has 19-21-23-25-28. I think I got the jumps that most closely > match what I used to have. For my brief ride, it worked well. (I said the > post ended with serious gearing nerdery, didn't I?) > > Next weekend, I'm not on call, but it's expected
