Re: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
I agree, Tim, especially if someone is buying my stuff! On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > > This is an excellent point. Shop victoriously! > > > -- Ken Freeman Ann Arbor, MI USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
I'm riding a custom Rivendell. Bought it new, paid retail. Asked that it be modeled after my Romulus. For me it's a nicer riding bike than the Romulus. It's a great riding bike and pretty as a peach. I plan to keep it forever. For me cm has it right, my custom is worth more than I paid for it. Had I found this as a used bike I'd think I'd died and gone to heaven. -JimD On Mar 10, 2010, at 9:24 AM, cm wrote: snip... So when a person buys a cutom Rivendell, what are they buying? and what percentage of that retains in the used example? It is not just a bike, or we'd all be on surly's. I would think that it is worth MORE than they paid for it, though less than what a new example might cost. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
On Mar 10, 2010, at 11:04 AM, Sean Whelan wrote: The thrill of victory is another factor with eBay. Bidders get emotionally invested in the "contest" aspect of the bidding and they want to "win." This is an excellent point. Shop victoriously! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
All excellent perspectives. Whenever it comes to things like this, when I have no clue whatsoever what somebody out there is willing to pay for my thing, I always start the bidding at the absolute lowest price I'd be willing to see it go for. Most of the time, I start ebay auctions at $1 for that reason. It's usually stuff I don't need anymore, and if a good friend asked me to give it to him, I would. So, start it at $1 and let the free market tell you what it's worth. Just like the entertainment value of 'shopping competitively' and winning, it's entertaining for me to watch the free market tell me what stuff is worth. This seller and lots of others I think have a 'buy it now' or equivalent mindset to try to get away with a price that is pushing the limits. I get that mindset. It's kind of like the opposite of buyers remorse: "what if I could have sold that thing for a little bit more?". Setting a really high buy it now kind of price is no longer an auction of course. One thing I really used to enjoy is buying used bikes that were fairly priced, update the build and resell them, usually to friends. It's pretty much impossible to do that on ebay anymore. A 20 year old $200 10-speed is $180 Buy-it-now these days, plus $120 shipping. Forget that. On Mar 10, 9:51 am, LF wrote: > > > > What do you think the resale value of a used $3000 custom riv frameset > > is? > > I own a Riv Custom bicycle (Joe & Joe), purchased without wheels > from an iBob. It is priceless, and not for sale. I enjoy riding a > work of art. When I'm done with it, I hope it becomes a family > heirloom. > > The original owner, IMO, suffered from "princess and the pea" > syndrome; he sold a bunch of Rivs that he couldn't get comfortable on, > and then flamed the basic design of Riv bikes. He simply set it up > wrong for him. Get a good bike, in the right fit ballpark, and you > can make it as comfortable as is possible -- with seat, stem, and > handlebar adjustments. > > Same with my Sheldon-assist Raleigh-Twenty build. It's priceless. > > The used market is quite variable. Best advice: try to buy low and > sell high. The resale value varies according to what the whims of > the market at the moment. > > An early (1996-7) 50 cm Waterford built Custom Riv complete bike with > 26" wheels sold this past Feb. on e-bay for $1000. IF a 58-61 cm > complete bike with 700c wheels, is offered for sale in May who > knows what the value will be? Many e-bay sellers have been very > surprised with the sale price of their items. > > Best, > Larry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
> What do you think the resale value of a used $3000 custom riv frameset > is? I own a Riv Custom bicycle (Joe & Joe), purchased without wheels from an iBob. It is priceless, and not for sale. I enjoy riding a work of art. When I'm done with it, I hope it becomes a family heirloom. The original owner, IMO, suffered from "princess and the pea" syndrome; he sold a bunch of Rivs that he couldn't get comfortable on, and then flamed the basic design of Riv bikes. He simply set it up wrong for him. Get a good bike, in the right fit ballpark, and you can make it as comfortable as is possible -- with seat, stem, and handlebar adjustments. Same with my Sheldon-assist Raleigh-Twenty build. It's priceless. The used market is quite variable. Best advice: try to buy low and sell high. The resale value varies according to what the whims of the market at the moment. An early (1996-7) 50 cm Waterford built Custom Riv complete bike with 26" wheels sold this past Feb. on e-bay for $1000. IF a 58-61 cm complete bike with 700c wheels, is offered for sale in May who knows what the value will be? Many e-bay sellers have been very surprised with the sale price of their items. Best, Larry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
I have never been a fan of the "it's worth what someone is willing to pay" argument. Yes, of course in order to sell something you need to have a buyer who is willing to pay that something, but it always seems like stating the obvious. Things do have value and that value can be determined, or at least approximated to some degree. So is a 15 year old custom worth more than what it cost new? I think that depends. Somethings seem to fetch more than they did when they were new-- rolex watches come to mind. And somethings fetch shockingly less-- high end sports cars for instance. And maybe the "it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it argument" works to some degree, I think it has more to do with what the original purchaser paid for and what percentage of that still exists as related to a new example of the same. For instance, a 500 class Mercedes from 1999 that sold for over $100,000 new might not sell for $10,000. I would argue that is b/c the original purchaser wasnt paying just for the car itself, but was paying for a new high end Mercedes. As it aged and became less new, less high end, less cutting edge, the value dropped significantly-- maybe to the point that it is only worth the value of the car itself. With a rolex, the models dont change that often and when they do, it is usually more in the workings rather than cosmetically. The person who buys it new is buying more than a watch (or they would have bought a timex) and the rolex retains those extra things long after they purchase it. That keeps the value high and what people are willing to pay high. So when a person buys a cutom Rivendell, what are they buying? and what percentage of that retains in the used example? It is not just a bike, or we'd all be on surly's. I would think that it is worth MORE than they paid for it, though less than what a new example might cost. Unless there is something unique about it that makes it more collectible, desirable, or now has more of that "extra" than it did when they bought it (akin to buying a painting from an artist before they have a big break). Cheers! cm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
The thrill of victory is another factor with eBay. Bidders get emotionally invested in the "contest" aspect of the bidding and they want to "win." A bidder starts imagining just how that old Carradice bag is going to come in handy on next week's ride and they bid higher than they normally would. In the case of my Silver shifters, I included a link to Riv, who were selling them in stock at the time. My shipping was flat rate, so not likely better or worse than Riv. They only went for a few dollars more, but it totally cracked me up. I have sold some other components for far more than I thought I would get, and have purchased things for as little as 99 cents. I love eBay. Sean --- On Wed, 3/10/10, EricP wrote: From: EricP Subject: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom? To: "RBW Owners Bunch" Date: Wednesday, March 10, 2010, 8:01 AM Another one who would argue it's worth what someone is willing to pay. Because haven't been back "into" bikes long enough (just under six years), hard to judge on used bicycle (and part) prices. eBay is an interesting market as others have mentioned. Things can go for more than "retail". But then, I'll argue it's only retail if the place has it in stock. Probably am remembering this wrong, but when Sean had his shifters for sale, Rivendell had been out of them for a bit. It's also possible the buyer doesn't want to deal with a particular retail seller. Things are also subject to fads. If folks have noticed, a few Bleriot frames have sold recently for well more than new. But custom bikes? Really hard to predict. Can be the same way with custom guitars. Especially acoustics. Have seen really nice, expensive instruments sell used for very little. Especially when one considers the type and quality of wood involved. Not to mention building time. Yet, if the builder is someone who is in demand, used can go for nearly as much as new. (Kevin Ryan and Jim Olson guitars come to mind). Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Mar 9, 11:00 pm, rob markwardt wrote: > In the add it mentioned it was featured in RR#8. Just read the > article... frame at that time was $1050...though this one does come > with BB and headset. I remember passing on an Atlantis a few years > ago because the seller wanted more than what the frame orignally sold > for. Peanuts compared to what they cost now...kind of wish I'd bought > it! > > On Mar 9, 12:18 pm, William wrote: > > > > > Good point. This one on ebay claims to have been built by Waterford. > > That was the basis for my hypothetical. Do you think this Waterford > > Custom retailed for a lot less than $3000? > > > On Mar 9, 12:10 pm, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:07 PM, William wrote: > > > > So, if a new custom costs $3000 and a new stock frame costs $2000 from > > > > the same builder (Waterford Rivs, for example), then your used custom > > > > is worth some percentage less than $2000, in my opinion. Am I wrong > > > > about that? Would you pay more for a used custom Riv (that fit you) > > > > than you would for a used Hilsen (in your best size)? I think they > > > > have identical value, assuming they are the right bike for the > > > > application, etc etc. > > > > Well - a custom isn't made at waterford, iirc. Mark(?) Nobliette(sp?) > > > is doing those. > > > -sv- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
Another one who would argue it's worth what someone is willing to pay. Because haven't been back "into" bikes long enough (just under six years), hard to judge on used bicycle (and part) prices. eBay is an interesting market as others have mentioned. Things can go for more than "retail". But then, I'll argue it's only retail if the place has it in stock. Probably am remembering this wrong, but when Sean had his shifters for sale, Rivendell had been out of them for a bit. It's also possible the buyer doesn't want to deal with a particular retail seller. Things are also subject to fads. If folks have noticed, a few Bleriot frames have sold recently for well more than new. But custom bikes? Really hard to predict. Can be the same way with custom guitars. Especially acoustics. Have seen really nice, expensive instruments sell used for very little. Especially when one considers the type and quality of wood involved. Not to mention building time. Yet, if the builder is someone who is in demand, used can go for nearly as much as new. (Kevin Ryan and Jim Olson guitars come to mind). Eric Platt St. Paul, MN On Mar 9, 11:00 pm, rob markwardt wrote: > In the add it mentioned it was featured in RR#8. Just read the > article... frame at that time was $1050...though this one does come > with BB and headset. I remember passing on an Atlantis a few years > ago because the seller wanted more than what the frame orignally sold > for. Peanuts compared to what they cost now...kind of wish I'd bought > it! > > On Mar 9, 12:18 pm, William wrote: > > > > > Good point. This one on ebay claims to have been built by Waterford. > > That was the basis for my hypothetical. Do you think this Waterford > > Custom retailed for a lot less than $3000? > > > On Mar 9, 12:10 pm, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:07 PM, William wrote: > > > > So, if a new custom costs $3000 and a new stock frame costs $2000 from > > > > the same builder (Waterford Rivs, for example), then your used custom > > > > is worth some percentage less than $2000, in my opinion. Am I wrong > > > > about that? Would you pay more for a used custom Riv (that fit you) > > > > than you would for a used Hilsen (in your best size)? I think they > > > > have identical value, assuming they are the right bike for the > > > > application, etc etc. > > > > Well - a custom isn't made at waterford, iirc. Mark(?) Nobliette(sp?) > > > is doing those. > > > -sv- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
In the add it mentioned it was featured in RR#8. Just read the article... frame at that time was $1050...though this one does come with BB and headset. I remember passing on an Atlantis a few years ago because the seller wanted more than what the frame orignally sold for. Peanuts compared to what they cost now...kind of wish I'd bought it! On Mar 9, 12:18 pm, William wrote: > Good point. This one on ebay claims to have been built by Waterford. > That was the basis for my hypothetical. Do you think this Waterford > Custom retailed for a lot less than $3000? > > On Mar 9, 12:10 pm, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:07 PM, William wrote: > > > So, if a new custom costs $3000 and a new stock frame costs $2000 from > > > the same builder (Waterford Rivs, for example), then your used custom > > > is worth some percentage less than $2000, in my opinion. Am I wrong > > > about that? Would you pay more for a used custom Riv (that fit you) > > > than you would for a used Hilsen (in your best size)? I think they > > > have identical value, assuming they are the right bike for the > > > application, etc etc. > > > Well - a custom isn't made at waterford, iirc. Mark(?) Nobliette(sp?) > > is doing those. > > -sv- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
On Mar 9, 2010, at 9:13 PM, Esteban wrote: On Mar 9, 5:57 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:20 PM, Michael_S wrote: On Mar 9, 4:45 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: It's what the market will bear, of course. I'll probably get myself in trouble here. IMHO the Rivendell community in general tends to overestimate the value of their used gear. Used gear, to me, is generally to be sold at garage sale prices but we all tend to ask "collector's" prices. And, being a polite non-argumentive bunch we tend to pay those prices. But really, something you've used for 4 years should not be sold at 25% off retail. It should be sold at 25% of retail. As you can guess, I don't buy a lot of used stuff as a result. :-) It's all about supply and demand , baby! Well, *perceived* supply and demand anyway. Just one comment, Tim, I generally agree with you, but EBAY has totally changed the world of used bike gear. I am consistently amazed at what people will pay for used stuff. I've sold many things that went for higher prices than new and the items were still available! It's amazing sometimes, you are right on the money. I have tastes in music that are not readily satisfied at the local record stores and often search eBay only to find items priced for used higher than I would pay at Amazon.com for new. And I see this happen with bike stuff regularly. And also other silly stuff, like a 10 year old clapped out pair of MTB shoes that should be thrown in the garbage- but nope, for auction with a starting price of $20. Well... in terms of value, what about something like this: Ram new went for what, $2300 complete? A new Roadeo is gonna be $4K complete. Its a nice bike and well worth the money. But considering the cost of an equitable new replacement, there's now way a Ram should sell for $600. It matters less what it cost than what the value of the bike means in today's dollars. As with all sales of used items, condition figures highly as does age, scarcity, etc. So that complete Rambouillet went for $2300 a few years ago. Say it'd cost $4000 to do it now based on the Roadeo frame. It's 4 years old, it's seen 20,000 miles of use. Is it "worth" $1700 used just because Rivendell's prices went up? Or is it maybe worth $3000 now because the Roadeo would be $4000? Would my 1996 All-Rounder ($1400 for the frame, fork and headset, IIRC) be worth $4,000 because a new custom might cost $5,000 (I actually saw something very much like that on eBay)? When I bought my 1990 Volvo used in 2001, I paid $3800 because that was the fair market value for its age, condition and maintenance record. If I sold it now it wouldn't be worth more than $1000 despite the fact that it's in excellent mechanical condition and probably good for another 100,000 miles. The price of the 240 was not influenced by the fact that a new Volvo would have cost 10 times as much. Nor should the price of a used bike. In my estimation a 4 year old Rambouillet would be worth much closer to $600 than to $1700. I wouldn't pay you even $750 for it, frankly, because I think that'd be too much (unless it was extremely pristine and happened to have my favorite parts on it). You may evaluate that differently and might be willing to pay more and feel like you got a good deal. That's fine because it's between you and the seller. I can only tell you how I think about this stuff which is not the same as telling you how you should do it. As for selling, I've had occasion to sell three bikes in the past 30 years, all of them old race bikes I was no longer using. They were priced according to the ideas I've expressed. The buyers got good bikes and I felt I got a fair price. I select my bikes very carefully and as a result I don't feel much need to sell and am planning to keep them a long time- I've got three bikes now and two of them are over 10 years old, the other one is about 5 years old. With a little maintenance they may very well see me out. What got me thinking about this a few years ago reading some articles by Brian Walker about his bike, a mid 50s Jack Taylor that he rode for five decades (with the same Carradice saddle bag). A half a century of riding- tours, pottering around, nipping down to the pub or the store, rides with buddies- on one bike! Every time you see that bike you are reminded of all those times. It becomes a touchstone for your life. What a wonderful thing! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
Yeah, a smooth fillet is a thing of beauty! On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: > > On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:51 PM, cyclotourist wrote: > > Waterford Rivs don't have the same cache as a Joe/Curt/Mark bike. Again, >> functionally the same though. >> > > I will admit to preferring the Waterford era bikes. I liked that they were > made with 753. And I preferred the simpler aesthetic, I find some of the > Joe/Curt era bikes to have too much gingerbread for my tastes. But then I > prefer fillets to lugs anyway. I've always liked the looks of fillets. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA "Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym." ~Bill Nye, scientist guy -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:51 PM, cyclotourist wrote: Waterford Rivs don't have the same cache as a Joe/Curt/Mark bike. Again, functionally the same though. I will admit to preferring the Waterford era bikes. I liked that they were made with 753. And I preferred the simpler aesthetic, I find some of the Joe/Curt era bikes to have too much gingerbread for my tastes. But then I prefer fillets to lugs anyway. I've always liked the looks of fillets. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
Well... in terms of value, what about something like this: Ram new went for what, $2300 complete? A new Roadeo is gonna be $4K complete. Its a nice bike and well worth the money. But considering the cost of an equitable new replacement, there's now way a Ram should sell for $600. It matters less what it cost than what the value of the bike means in today's dollars. On Mar 9, 5:57 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: > On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:20 PM, Michael_S wrote: > > > On Mar 9, 4:45 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: > >> It's what the market will bear, of course. > > >> I'll probably get myself in trouble here. IMHO the Rivendell > >> community in general tends to overestimate the value of their used > >> gear. Used gear, to me, is generally to be sold at garage sale > >> prices but we all tend to ask "collector's" prices. And, being a > >> polite non-argumentive bunch we tend to pay those prices. But > >> really, something you've used for 4 years should not be sold at 25% > >> off retail. It should be sold at 25% of retail. > > >> As you can guess, I don't buy a lot of used stuff as a result. :-) > > It's all about supply and demand , baby! > > Well, *perceived* supply and demand anyway. > > > Just one comment, Tim, I generally agree with you, but EBAY has > > totally changed the world of used bike gear. > > I am consistently amazed at what people will pay for used stuff. I've > > sold many things that went for higher prices than new and the items > > were still available! > > It's amazing sometimes, you are right on the money. I have tastes in > music that are not readily satisfied at the local record stores and > often search eBay only to find items priced for used higher than I > would pay at Amazon.com for new. And I see this happen with bike > stuff regularly. And also other silly stuff, like a 10 year old > clapped out pair of MTB shoes that should be thrown in the garbage- > but nope, for auction with a starting price of $20. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
On Mar 9, 2010, at 7:20 PM, Michael_S wrote: On Mar 9, 4:45 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: It's what the market will bear, of course. I'll probably get myself in trouble here. IMHO the Rivendell community in general tends to overestimate the value of their used gear. Used gear, to me, is generally to be sold at garage sale prices but we all tend to ask "collector's" prices. And, being a polite non-argumentive bunch we tend to pay those prices. But really, something you've used for 4 years should not be sold at 25% off retail. It should be sold at 25% of retail. As you can guess, I don't buy a lot of used stuff as a result. :-) It's all about supply and demand , baby! Well, *perceived* supply and demand anyway. Just one comment, Tim, I generally agree with you, but EBAY has totally changed the world of used bike gear. I am consistently amazed at what people will pay for used stuff. I've sold many things that went for higher prices than new and the items were still available! It's amazing sometimes, you are right on the money. I have tastes in music that are not readily satisfied at the local record stores and often search eBay only to find items priced for used higher than I would pay at Amazon.com for new. And I see this happen with bike stuff regularly. And also other silly stuff, like a 10 year old clapped out pair of MTB shoes that should be thrown in the garbage- but nope, for auction with a starting price of $20. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
It's all about supply and demand , baby! Just one comment, Tim, I generally agree with you, but EBAY has totally changed the world of used bike gear. I am consistently amazed at what people will pay for used stuff. I've sold many things that went for higher prices than new and the items were still available! On Mar 9, 4:45 pm, Tim McNamara wrote: > It's what the market will bear, of course. > > I'll probably get myself in trouble here. IMHO the Rivendell > community in general tends to overestimate the value of their used > gear. Used gear, to me, is generally to be sold at garage sale > prices but we all tend to ask "collector's" prices. And, being a > polite non-argumentive bunch we tend to pay those prices. But > really, something you've used for 4 years should not be sold at 25% > off retail. It should be sold at 25% of retail. > > As you can guess, I don't buy a lot of used stuff as a result. :-) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
I once sold a set of Silver Shifters that I bought from Rivendell for more than they sell for at Rivendell. My eBay Auction even said, "These sell for $75 at Rivbike.com: Maybe your shipping was cheaper and/or faster than Riv. ...Roy On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Sean Whelan wrote: > Ebay values for stuff have little to do with the original purchase price. > Values for used frames vary hugely based on the size, and the current market > for the frame. > > A special vintage French touring bike might go for much more than its > original price, due to its rarity, while a 3 year old "Racing" Aluminum Trek > might go for peanuts. > > I once sold a set of Silver Shifters that I bought from Rivendell for more > than they sell for at Rivendell. My eBay Auction even said, "These sell for > $75 at Rivbike.com: > > Hmmm. > > Sean > > --- On *Tue, 3/9/10, William * wrote: > > > From: William > Subject: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom? > To: "RBW Owners Bunch" > Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 3:18 PM > > Good point. This one on ebay claims to have been built by Waterford. > That was the basis for my hypothetical. Do you think this Waterford > Custom retailed for a lot less than $3000? > > > On Mar 9, 12:10 pm, Seth Vidal > http://mc/compose?to=skvi...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:07 PM, William > > http://mc/compose?to=tapebu...@gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > So, if a new custom costs $3000 and a new stock frame costs $2000 from > > > the same builder (Waterford Rivs, for example), then your used custom > > > is worth some percentage less than $2000, in my opinion. Am I wrong > > > about that? Would you pay more for a used custom Riv (that fit you) > > > than you would for a used Hilsen (in your best size)? I think they > > > have identical value, assuming they are the right bike for the > > > application, etc etc. > > > > Well - a custom isn't made at waterford, iirc. Mark(?) Nobliette(sp?) > > is doing those. > > -sv > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com> > . > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+ > unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<http://mc/compose?to=unsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
Well, a "custom" will be single-make frame/fork with Riv's lugs and details that only go into a custom. Any bike bought new will be sold for less. But sometimes, I would suspect, inflation comes into play: an Atlantis f/f bout a few years ago at $1400 could possible be sold for that price, considering now the f/f is $2300. A bike is worth what you want to pay for it. Usually, a complete bike is a better deal than buying all the parts separate. That's a nice bike on Ebay. I'd just get a Legolas if it were something I was looking for. Hmmm... I never thought of that. Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Mar 9, 1:12 pm, Sean Whelan wrote: > Ebay values for stuff have little to do with the original purchase price. > Values for used frames vary hugely based on the size, and the current market > for the frame. > > A special vintage French touring bike might go for much more than its > original price, due to its rarity, while a 3 year old "Racing" Aluminum Trek > might go for peanuts. > > I once sold a set of Silver Shifters that I bought from Rivendell for more > than they sell for at Rivendell. My eBay Auction even said, "These sell for > $75 at Rivbike.com: > > Hmmm. > > Sean > > --- On Tue, 3/9/10, William wrote: > > From: William > Subject: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom? > To: "RBW Owners Bunch" > Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 3:18 PM > > Good point. This one on ebay claims to have been built by Waterford. > That was the basis for my hypothetical. Do you think this Waterford > Custom retailed for a lot less than $3000? > > On Mar 9, 12:10 pm, Seth Vidal wrote: > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:07 PM, William wrote: > > > So, if a new custom costs $3000 and a new stock frame costs $2000 from > > > the same builder (Waterford Rivs, for example), then your used custom > > > is worth some percentage less than $2000, in my opinion. Am I wrong > > > about that? Would you pay more for a used custom Riv (that fit you) > > > than you would for a used Hilsen (in your best size)? I think they > > > have identical value, assuming they are the right bike for the > > > application, etc etc. > > > Well - a custom isn't made at waterford, iirc. Mark(?) Nobliette(sp?) > > is doing those. > > -sv > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
Ebay values for stuff have little to do with the original purchase price. Values for used frames vary hugely based on the size, and the current market for the frame. A special vintage French touring bike might go for much more than its original price, due to its rarity, while a 3 year old "Racing" Aluminum Trek might go for peanuts. I once sold a set of Silver Shifters that I bought from Rivendell for more than they sell for at Rivendell. My eBay Auction even said, "These sell for $75 at Rivbike.com: Hmmm. Sean --- On Tue, 3/9/10, William wrote: From: William Subject: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom? To: "RBW Owners Bunch" Date: Tuesday, March 9, 2010, 3:18 PM Good point. This one on ebay claims to have been built by Waterford. That was the basis for my hypothetical. Do you think this Waterford Custom retailed for a lot less than $3000? On Mar 9, 12:10 pm, Seth Vidal wrote: > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:07 PM, William wrote: > > So, if a new custom costs $3000 and a new stock frame costs $2000 from > > the same builder (Waterford Rivs, for example), then your used custom > > is worth some percentage less than $2000, in my opinion. Am I wrong > > about that? Would you pay more for a used custom Riv (that fit you) > > than you would for a used Hilsen (in your best size)? I think they > > have identical value, assuming they are the right bike for the > > application, etc etc. > > Well - a custom isn't made at waterford, iirc. Mark(?) Nobliette(sp?) > is doing those. > -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
I think I kind of agree with the OP. ³Custom² doesn¹t mean much in the used market. I think of most custom-made objects as curiosities ‹ priceless to the person it was made for, and worthless to anyone else -- regardless of who built it. Oh, sure, if you happened upon a for-sale bike that had been built special for someone else, and you were close to the same physical dimensions as the owner, and your intended use, riding style, and component preferences were nearly identical, and it were your favorite color and in as-new condition, then you might want to consider comparing it to a new custom, and paying some substantial fraction of its new price. But even if all of the above were true, will a 15-year-old Waterford-built custom Rivendell serve you better than, say, a new Waterford-built Hilsen in any practical way? -- Jon ³Adding Nothing Substantial, As Per Usual² Grant, in Austin, Texas -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
You are right on all those measurable upgrades, of course. I'm basing the value-spent part on the stuff that is not measurably better than a stock bike. Possibly I'm stating the obvious with that. I have two examples. When I worked at a Specialized/Cannondale dealer, I couldn't find a road frame to fit me just right. I custom ordered a Davidson Signature out of Seattle. After I ordered it but before I got it I visited a Bridgestone shop, and found that I had spec'd a 56cm RB1 identically. So, if I tried to sell it and said "It's custom sized, you can't get a bike fit like this" you could say "Yes I can. I can get an RB1". The fact that there was a stock bike that fit exactly like my custom fit bike did reduce the resale value to anyone who knows that both frames exist. I'll never sell it, though, for exactly the reason you stated, the experience of getting it just for me. It's mine. It's me, in a way. Second, I worked at Missing Link for several years. A guy brought in a trade in. A touring bike with a god-awful yellow with black sponge smears paintjob. We offered him a trade in value and he was shocked at how low it was. "That was a $600 paintjob alone!" he complained. It was an awesome bike, but nobody was going to pay anything for that color. The paintjob made the great bike less valuable (to anyone with taste). On Mar 9, 12:26 pm, Bill Connell wrote: > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:07 PM, William wrote: > > On ebay (I'm sure you've all noticed) is a used custom Rivendell > > frame. It started at $2700 I think, then for sure eventually went > > down to $2200 and now is at $1985. The seller is not even the > > original owner, but claims the value in that this frame is 'good as > > new' and you don't have to wait a couple years to get one. > > > I, for one, have always been amazed at what people think the re-sale > > value is for custom stuff. Here's a news flash: after the original > > purchaser has made their custom decisions, it is NO LONGER CUSTOM. > > When I buy your used frame, it's not custom. I don't get to choose > > the color, the fit, the braze-ons. They are stock. Your used custom > > is at best, one of a kind, and you can describe it as having been > > custom built, but it's not custom anymore. That ship has sailed. > > > So, if a new custom costs $3000 and a new stock frame costs $2000 from > > the same builder (Waterford Rivs, for example), then your used custom > > is worth some percentage less than $2000, in my opinion. Am I wrong > > about that? Would you pay more for a used custom Riv (that fit you) > > than you would for a used Hilsen (in your best size)? I think they > > have identical value, assuming they are the right bike for the > > application, etc etc. > > > What do you think the resale value of a used $3000 custom riv frameset > > is? > > I disagree on some of the points, depending on the frame in question. > If it has different specs - tubing, geometry, details - than available > on a production frame, it's still a custom. The degree that it's > different might be all over the map, but it's still a custom bike. The > value is exactly what someone will pay for it, and that value will > come from how much those different details are worth it to you. > > For example (not knowing this frame), if it's basically an Atlantis > but with horizontal dropouts, it wouldn't be worth more than an > Atlantis plus that modification plus a paint job. If it's a more rare > custom made with very light tubing (for example), it could arguably be > worth more than any current production frame, if that's what you want. > > Personally, the value of getting a custom would be the experience of > getting it new, made just for me. Once it's a used purchase, it's a > simple measure of the features of that particular frame -vs- other > similar available frames. > > -- > Bill Connell > St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Seth Vidal wrote: > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:18 PM, William wrote: >> Good point. This one on ebay claims to have been built by Waterford. >> That was the basis for my hypothetical. Do you think this Waterford >> Custom retailed for a lot less than $3000? >> > > Likely just means its fairly older. IIRC, it's been many years since Waterford made the custom frames - over 10 maybe? It seems unlikely that many of them cost $3000 new, but the new price has very little to do with current value. -- Bill Connell St. Paul, MN -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:18 PM, William wrote: > Good point. This one on ebay claims to have been built by Waterford. > That was the basis for my hypothetical. Do you think this Waterford > Custom retailed for a lot less than $3000? > Likely just means its fairly older. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: What would you pay for a used custom?
Good point. This one on ebay claims to have been built by Waterford. That was the basis for my hypothetical. Do you think this Waterford Custom retailed for a lot less than $3000? On Mar 9, 12:10 pm, Seth Vidal wrote: > On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 3:07 PM, William wrote: > > So, if a new custom costs $3000 and a new stock frame costs $2000 from > > the same builder (Waterford Rivs, for example), then your used custom > > is worth some percentage less than $2000, in my opinion. Am I wrong > > about that? Would you pay more for a used custom Riv (that fit you) > > than you would for a used Hilsen (in your best size)? I think they > > have identical value, assuming they are the right bike for the > > application, etc etc. > > Well - a custom isn't made at waterford, iirc. Mark(?) Nobliette(sp?) > is doing those. > -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
