subject:"\[RBW\] Re\: eCLEM"

Laing: Yes, they make 26" and 700C. There's also a singlespeed version for 120 
dropouts like Quickbeam. 

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

I told Leah I might do red cables (I have some stashed around here somewhere). 
Whaddyathink? 

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-23 Thread lconley

Do they make a 700c wheel? - The red would go well on a Betty Foy.

Laing
Cocoa FL

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 1:30:49 PM UTC-4, REC (Roberta) wrote:

> With the wheel, I actually liked the look with the red bag you had 
> originally on it (and that is from someone with all black bags).  To me it 
> says "I'm accessorizing with red."
>
> On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 11:26:36 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Thanks, Roberta! I appreciate this more than you know because I've been 
>> struggling with how the wheel looks. Not enough to remove it - I'm not 
>> crazy! (some would disagree) - but it's so RED. I'll work on seeing it with 
>> your eyes 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-23 Thread REC (Roberta)

With the wheel, I actually liked the look with the red bag you had 
originally on it (and that is from someone with all black bags).  To me it 
says "I'm accessorizing with red."

On Wednesday, October 23, 2019 at 11:26:36 AM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Thanks, Roberta! I appreciate this more than you know because I've been 
> struggling with how the wheel looks. Not enough to remove it - I'm not 
> crazy! (some would disagree) - but it's so RED. I'll work on seeing it with 
> your eyes 

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

Indeed, Ryan, one thing I like about its extreme noticeability is I don't feel 
like I'm lying when I pass some poor carbon roadie wondering why that old guy 
on a step-thru just blew by him. The wheel says "I have a motor, I'm not trying 
to pull one over on you, Lance!" 

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-23 Thread 'Abcyclehank' via RBW Owners Bunch

Joe, 

I agree with Roberta it definitely looks like it belongs on the Clem L.  The 
red is definitely attention generating initially I thought a more subdued color 
would be desired.
Now the color symbolizes for me that the owner is a bike lover first but open 
to enhancing their riding experience whether out of need or desire.  In my 
opinion the pedal assist nature of the Copenhagen Wheel separates into a 
completely different e-bike than throttle based versions.
Ryan “joining the club today” Hankinson

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

Thanks, Roberta! I appreciate this more than you know because I've been 
struggling with how the wheel looks. Not enough to remove it - I'm not crazy! 
(some would disagree) - but it's so RED. I'll work on seeing it with your eyes 

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-23 Thread REC (Roberta)

Joe,

I really like the look of that wheel with the Clem L--those two belong 
together, even more than the wheel with the All Rounder.  

Happy riding,
Roberta

On Friday, October 18, 2019 at 10:30:44 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:

> Due to the overwhelming response to this, I've decided to show updated 
> photos. Ok no one responded but I'm doing it anyway!
>
> Pardon the recycling bin as kickstand, it was crazy windy out there and I 
> needed something sturdy so my shiney new bicycle didn't go crashing to the 
> ground. I finally got to use the wood fenders Erl (WETH) giftee me years 
> ago, and they look sooo nice with the grilver. That big red hub kinda 
> interrupts the whole thing, but the upcoming rack and panniers should calm 
> that effect a bit. It's SUCH a great bike..Clem(entine)s rule!
>
> On Thursday, October 17, 2019 at 7:33:49 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
> > My first was my first e-build, a pretty clunky and terrible 
> throttle-only rear hub on a 45cm Clem H. Grant rode it! Then I put a 
> stupid-fast Bafang mid-drive on a 52cm L which was great on the monster 
> hill I lived in back then, but it was a little ridiculous. 
> > 
> > Now we have a 45 L frame I just grabbed from the web sale. Yes it looks 
> a bit gangly with all that post and stem showing, but I needed the 26-inch 
> wheels and I knew the size would work with the bolt-upright seating 
> position my arthritis requires now. 
> > 
> > The Copenhagen Wheel is late of the All Rounder I recently showed, that 
> lovely bicycle is getting a new non-electric mission now. 
> > 
> > Rich-built Deore/Atlas front wheel, mixed Schwalbe 1.75 tires. 
> > Origin8 shorty 145mm cranks, single 42t ring, Paul Chainkeeper. 
> > XT Shadow derailer, SRAM 11-32 (maybe it's 34) cassette, Connex chain. 
> > Shimano 9-speed shifter on Paul mount, left side where my not-so-bad 
> hand can push/pull it. 
> > Avid levers (thanks, Bill!). 
> > Nitto cromo upjutter stem, cromo Boscos shortened one inch, Jones H 
> Grips, German mirror.
> > Stock post, Brooks ti B17. 
> > Bombshell v-brakes. 
> > Deity pedals (thanks, Analog Cycles!)
> > 
> > I need to shorten the cables up, add a rack and Happisack, maybe some 
> wood fenders a listmember (WETH?) gave me years ago and take better pics. 
> Enjoy these now! 
> > 
> > Joe Bernard
> > Novato CA.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-21 Thread Joe Bernard

Hi Kiley!

Yes, I think Clem is an excellent Riv for a project like this, but really any 
model with v-brakes and moderately stout tubes will do. It's a significant 
weight and power gain, so I would lean towards bikes designed at the outset for 
full loads. 

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-21 Thread Kiley Demond

Hey, Joe: This is so cool! It is still on my "to do" list and I will get it 
done in the next couple of years. Thank you for all the investigative work; 
I doubt I would attempt it without your pioneering. The Clem is still the 
best Riv bike to 'electrify', yes? -Kiley

P.S. I came back to the Bay Area (Peninsula) twice this past summer for 
work. It was so crowded I didn't venture out much, every place made me 
think about how fortunate I was to be there for 30 years (1984-2014), and 
not there now. I think I have completely adapted to the AZ high country! 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-20 Thread Joe Bernard

Used. I got it from a guy selling on Bentrider Online. 

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-20 Thread Jim D Massachusetts


Thanks for the info. Did you buy the wheel from a dealer or direct from the 
mfg? Jim D   Massachusetts

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-19 Thread Ian A

Thanks for the info Joe. That's a seriously impressive system.

IanA

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-19 Thread Joe Bernard

Thanks, Erl! 

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-19 Thread WETH

Joe, the fenders look great. So glad you could put them to good use.
All the best,
Erl

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-19 Thread Joe Bernard

Btw, a disclaimer: I like motorbikes as Grant calls them and know they aren't 
classically bicycles, it's a different thing. I also like Rivendells better 
than any other bicycles, they do everything I like and nothing I don't. So 
sometimes I combine the two things into a Rivendell motorbike, and all frame 
warranties real or implied or hoped for are bupkus. The Copenhagen Wheel works 
on this bike and I dig it, but Grant didn't design it for this. It's on me ‍♂️

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-18 Thread Joe Bernard

Hi Ian,

Yes, it's the most "bicycle like" of all the systems I've messed with, and I've
messed with a bunch. The motor, controller and battery are all in the hub so
there's no hassle with finding places to mount things, and no wires ziptied to
the frame. You power on with a switch on the wheel, then the assist levels are
managed on a phone app.

It's torque-sensing so the harder you pedal, the more "tailwind" it gives you.
One cool feature with this is you can slow right down to a crawl on a very
sharp turn - like in a park or parking lot - then press the pedal and the power
picks right back up to get you out of it. I've ridden cadence systems where
this wasn't possible, if the pedals were moving you had power trying to jet you
forward..there's no fighting the motor with the Copenhagen Wheel. Top speed is
25mph for the US market, which is about as fast as I want to go on a Clem. It
may be 25kph for Canada, I don't know the ebike laws there.

Range is limited due to the small battery required to fit in the casing. I can
get around 30 miles if I stay out of full power (Turbo) and don't jam the
pedals all day; easily dropping down to 10 for Turbo blasts. It's an urban A to
B system, you won't be doing any touring unless you ride long stretches with O
power. I'm going to try 50-miler at some point, though, just to see if I can
realistically do one. It pedals fine in O, just heavy..I'll bet with some
judicious running in 0 and Eco and coasting down hills I could pull it off.

Another feature - which is exclusive to this wheel - is it supposedly "learns"
how you ride and adapts the system to you. In practice this benefit is
invisible, but I love the way everything works so maybe that's part of it.

The one major drawback is the same as all hub drive ebikes: pulling that heavy
bolt-on wheel for a flat is not going to be fun out on the road. I use a thick
Schwalbe tire and hope for the best! 爛

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-18 Thread Ian A

Looking good, Joe, especially properly dressed with fenders. I am curious about 
the Copenhagen wheel. From what I understand it is entirely self-contained, app 
controlled and pedal assist only. Seems like almost the perfect electric 
bicycle solution. It remains a bicycle, albeit a bionic version.

If you could expand on the way the hub works and feels in practical day to day 
riding, it would be interesting to learn more. What sort of range does it allow?

IanA Alberta Canada

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[RBW] Re: eClem again

2019-10-18 Thread Joe Bernard

Yes I know I need to cut the stays on the rear fender. I've already kicked them 
like you do when a car has a trailer hitch sticking out. OW!

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2017-09-24 Thread Joe Bernard

Chris: Yes, I think most Rivs are excellent platforms for e-kits. Mark @ 
Rivendell joked that I should start doing conversions to sell to people. Hey 
Grant, gimme a little space in the shop and I'll get to work!
In the year since I started this thread I've de-electrified and sold that frame 
- it was a smidge too small - and now have this CLEM L with a Bafang BBS02 
mid-drive. It's nifty!

https://goo.gl/photos/HqvPx24LBJhmVpjv9

Joe Bernard
Vallejo CA. 

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2017-09-24 Thread 'Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch

I had some time to kill yesterday so I stopped into a big LBS that I have 
only been to once, several years ago.  My primary purpose was to see 
in-person and possibly ride a "+" bike.  I ended up killing many birds with 
one stone, when the owner came out and chatted me up and asked if I had 
time to ride an e-bike.  He had a whole row of demo bikes and he asked me 
what type bike I like and I emphasized that I like "FAT" tires.  So, he put 
me on a full-suspension, 27.5+ e-bike.  This let me experience:  an e-bike, 
27.5,  plus size tires, current progressive trail geometry (slack head 
angle, really short stem, wide handlebar) and front AND rear suspension. 
 All of these are things I've been curious about.  

I would encourage everyone to go out and try an e-bike.  

This video I found last night sums up my experience perfectly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fAtNi2Nozc=131sThe bike I rode was 
the FS version of the bike in the video.

Things I learned:

1)  I definately liked the plus tires and want them (probably 27.5) on my 
next bike.
2)  I loved the short stem-wide handlebar combination.
3)  I definately want a front suspension (I have arthritis in my shoulders 
and am getting more and more into off-road riding and my 2.10" tires don't 
provide enough cushion)
4)  Rear suspension wasn't a bad thing and I might consider it for my next 
bike.
5)  Schwalbe Rocket Ron tires handle and turn better than my Maxxis Torch 
29's, which are basically slicks.  
6)  Riding an e-bike is the most fun I've ever had on a bicycle.

I'm not sure I would want an e-bike for trail riding but a nice, cushy 
e-Rivendell is something that should exist and something I would love to 
own.  

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 1:19:23 AM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I did the deed and you can see it here. I bought this kit used and 
> attached to a hybrid, then decided I liked it so much that I wanted it on a 
> nicer bike. It still needs wood fenders installed, and the wires need a 
> better cover than that blue plastic I jury-rigged to avoid today's 
> after-rain spray. Check it out, people who check out things!
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/18972972@N08/shares/GR3Qjv
>
> Joe "Electric Avenue" Bernard
> Vallejo, CA.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2017-06-27 Thread Mike Horgan

Thanks for the warm welcome Patrick.   I've read a good number of your 
posts here and appreciate all your contributions to the group.

On this bike I'm limited to 38mm tires and yes, I am running Schwalbes with 
their flat protection. Which seems to work well, as I've got 2 years / 2.5 
seasons under them without any problems.  I usually run them at 60 PSI; 
I'll try taking that down a bit, maybe to 40?  I do try to unweight over 
rough stuff, but sometimes you just don't see it coming.

A 58 or 62 Hunqa build would be perfect, I'll start saving ;)

Best,
Mike Horgan



On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 11:01:20 AM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Dear Mike,
>
> Awesome use of an e-bike, Mike! Kudos! Welcome to the group and the rabbit 
> hole! Grin.
>
> Having no idea on the differences between tubing and more I can't speak to 
> the "sturdier" aspect, but the craftsmanship Grant and Co. put into their 
> bikes is stunning. I have beaten the living daylights out of my fully 
> loaded Hunqapillar for over 5 years and it keeps asking for more. I suspect 
> you would fine the Clem perfect for your needs. However, it is also worth 
> naming factors that decrease riding impact:
>
> -- do you unweight the seat for rough spots? Shift your weight to your 
> feet and handlebars, let the bike rock, bounce, jounce, and roll beneath 
> you. I imagine an e-bike and those constant speeds increases such need. 
> Grant has a chapter on this in "Just Ride," well worth reading.
>
> -- tires. Wide tires inflated to lower pressures absorb impact much more 
> than narrower and/or higher pressures. Tires with stiffer sidewalls and 
> flat protection (likely what you prefer for commuting) won't absorb as much 
> as supple tires (like Compass tires). Of course, there is the whole e-bike 
> rated tire thing, which I know nothing about.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
>
> On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 8:34:34 AM UTC-6, Mike Horgan wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'm thinking that a Clem would be a sturdier base upon which to build a 
>> reliable commuter.  Would you guys generally agree?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2017-06-22 Thread Mike Horgan

Thanks Joe.   Great to hear from the person who seems to be the primary 
ebike proponent in this group. For me, riding an assisted bike for the 
first time was a lightning bolt moment. I can't see going back as far as 
for daily transportation.  I read some posts here about ebikes on group 
rides and that doesn't seem like a good cultural fit (at least for a 
mostly-able rider).  But for basic shopping, getting to work, riding into 
town for an evening event I can't think of a more enjoyable way to travel. 
 If you're riding specifically to work up a sweat then more power to you, 
but for getting around with as little stress, fuss and cost as possible 
ebikes rock.

Although the higher-end Rivs are very (very!) attractive to me, I think I 
agree with you that the stout frame and limousine proportions of a clem is 
probably the best option.  My current bike will probably make it through 
this season with a little TLC (this weekend I replaced the broken saddle 
and tightened up a few loose bolts) so maybe a new build over the winter 
will be just the thing.

I'd say 'Enjoy!' to you too, but I think you already do ;)

On Wednesday, June 21, 2017 at 8:33:34 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Hi Mike, that's my CLEM that I put a rather primitive and heavy e-kit on 
> last year. It looks like you're using a Bafang mid-drive which is much 
> better and lighter (I have a BBS02 on a folding bike). I highly recommend 
> swapping to a CLEM: it's a stout frame and the long wheelbase (with fat 
> tires) makes for a very stable ride at the speeds you're doing. Enjoy!

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2017-06-21 Thread Joe Bernard

Hi Mike, that's my CLEM that I put a rather primitive and heavy e-kit on last 
year. It looks like you're using a Bafang mid-drive which is much better and 
lighter (I have a BBS02 on a folding bike). I highly recommend swapping to a 
CLEM: it's a stout frame and the long wheelbase (with fat tires) makes for a 
very stable ride at the speeds you're doing. Enjoy!

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2017-06-19 Thread Deacon Patrick

Dear Mike,

Awesome use of an e-bike, Mike! Kudos! Welcome to the group and the rabbit 
hole! Grin.

Having no idea on the differences between tubing and more I can't speak to 
the "sturdier" aspect, but the craftsmanship Grant and Co. put into their 
bikes is stunning. I have beaten the living daylights out of my fully 
loaded Hunqapillar for over 5 years and it keeps asking for more. I suspect 
you would fine the Clem perfect for your needs. However, it is also worth 
naming factors that decrease riding impact:

-- do you unweight the seat for rough spots? Shift your weight to your feet 
and handlebars, let the bike rock, bounce, jounce, and roll beneath you. I 
imagine an e-bike and those constant speeds increases such need. Grant has 
a chapter on this in "Just Ride," well worth reading.

-- tires. Wide tires inflated to lower pressures absorb impact much more 
than narrower and/or higher pressures. Tires with stiffer sidewalls and 
flat protection (likely what you prefer for commuting) won't absorb as much 
as supple tires (like Compass tires). Of course, there is the whole e-bike 
rated tire thing, which I know nothing about.

With abandon,
Patrick



On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 8:34:34 AM UTC-6, Mike Horgan wrote:
>
>
> I'm thinking that a Clem would be a sturdier base upon which to build a 
> reliable commuter.  Would you guys generally agree?
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2017-06-19 Thread Mike Horgan

Hello People -

First post, just discovered this group.  I decided to reply to this older 
thread because I am also considering building an eClem.

I've been commuting on this electrified pseudo-Riv for 2 years now:





It's made by Brooklyn Bicycles, who were lucky to have Grant as a 
consultant when they were starting up. It has a 7-speed Shimano IGH which I 
really love.

Unfortunately, constantly cruising 18 - 20 mph over rough New England roads 
have taken a toll; a seat rail and fender mount snapped this week and there 
seems to be some general 'klankiness' happening somewhere in the front end 
over broken pavement. It also maxes out at 38mm tires when 50s would be a 
huge help.

I'm thinking that a Clem would be a sturdier base upon which to build a 
reliable commuter.  Would you guys generally agree?

Happy to answer any questions about my ebiking experience. I'll say up 
front that arriving at work in street clothes and unsweaty beats continuing 
to soak though my shirt for 30 minutes after arriving at my desk.  It's 
also faster (because traffic) and 1000% more fun than driving.  I really 
look forward to commuting every morning now.

Mike
Arlington, MA


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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-07-18 Thread Surlyprof

I got to ride a Butcher and Bicycles MK1e Cargo Bike in Copenhagen and 
thought it was the ultimate car replacement.  Unfortunately, I think it 
also costs as much as my truck!

John

On Monday, July 11, 2016 at 11:56:07 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Cargo bikes are where I see e-assist being the most relevant application 
> for bicycles. I use it for fun and to cover longer, hillier distances than 
> I normally would, but where it really comes in as car replacement is when 
> you can do heavy hauling trips you would never do without the motor. 

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-07-12 Thread Joe Bernard

Cargo bikes are where I see e-assist being the most relevant application for 
bicycles. I use it for fun and to cover longer, hillier distances than I 
normally would, but where it really comes in as car replacement is when you can 
do heavy hauling trips you would never do without the motor. 

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-07-11 Thread Evan Baird

Talk to a whole mess of ebike nerds at the New Wheel open house. Different 
aesthetic preferences abound. I did check out a 29+ cargo bike that might 
just be my next dream bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-23 Thread Joe Bernard

Yeah, it's kind of a lark in the unlikely event that someone wants to pay that. 
I'm trying to finance a new blue Appaloosa I hadn't planned on buying (which 
I'm on the way to RBW to pick up right now). I'm just going to let the ad 
lapse, though..I'm pretty fond of that eCLEM, and will be happy to keep it. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-23 Thread Surlyprof

Joe,

This isn't your eClem on CL is it?  
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/5644170918.html

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-22 Thread Joe Bernard

That electric fatbike is decent for the price, but there's already a dozen of 
them at various 'entry level' price points. For that money you get lots of 
weight and cheap parts..money I'd rather spend on kitting an actual good 
bicycle. Like CLEM!

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-22 Thread Patrick Moore

Interesting new "eBike for the masses" on Bike Radar:

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/news/article/lectro-999-electric-fat-bike-first-look-47321/

Also: Did you know that you don't *really* need disc brakes? -- at least if
you are looking for a modestly priced bike.

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/gear/article/road-discs-are-great-but-do-you-actually-need-them-47325/

The article says in effect, "rim brakes are fully good enough if you're not
really riding hard."

Now, I prefer discs off road, largely because of the rims it lets me use,
but as far as solid braking, any type of good rim brake is fully as good as
mechanical discs in dry weather, with 30 mm tires, and on pavement. (Well,
perhaps not Mafac cantis.)

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-07 Thread Evan Baird

Unfortunately it's probably going to be a lot sooner than that. I'm almost 
a cripple as it is. But hand cycles are cool!

On Tuesday, June 7, 2016 at 12:34:11 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> When you're old enough to actually need a knee replacement (or, for that 
> matter, a coronary by-pass) you'll probably be on Medicare.
>
> On 06/07/2016 01:58 PM, Evan Baird wrote:
>
> That's good to know, although I doubt I'd be able to afford that kind of 
> surgery (I work for republicans after all).
>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 2:39:41 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote: 
>>
>>
>> On 06/02/2016 05:30 PM, Evan Baird wrote: 
>> > For the record, I'm keeping it all organic until my shitty joints 
>> finally crap out. 
>> > 
>>
>> Even when they do, prosthetics don't require electric powered bicycles 
>> (having half an artificial knee I can speak with personal knowledge on 
>> this subject).  Actually most everyone I know using e-bikes has either 
>> blocked coronary arteries or a heart damaged by an MI.  That could just 
>> be the demographic I hang out with, though... 
>>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-07 Thread Steve Palincsar

When you're old enough to actually need a knee replacement (or, for that 
matter, a coronary by-pass) you'll probably be on Medicare.

On 06/07/2016 01:58 PM, Evan Baird wrote:
That's good to know, although I doubt I'd be able to afford that kind 
of surgery (I work for republicans after all).

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 2:39:41 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

On 06/02/2016 05:30 PM, Evan Baird wrote:
> For the record, I'm keeping it all organic until my shitty
joints finally crap out.
>

Even when they do, prosthetics don't require electric powered
bicycles
(having half an artificial knee I can speak with personal
knowledge on
this subject).  Actually most everyone I know using e-bikes has
either
blocked coronary arteries or a heart damaged by an MI.  That could
just
be the demographic I hang out with, though...

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-07 Thread masmojo

Yes, a good observation Joe, I was just noticing the other day how many Ebikes 
had fatter tires. Heck, a fair number are fatbikes!
I put fatter (2.2") tires on my Clementine the other day and just the 
additional weight of the tires themselves over my previous ones,  gave me pause 
to think about the consequences of adding power & weight!

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-07 Thread Evan Baird

That's good to know, although I doubt I'd be able to afford that kind of 
surgery (I work for republicans after all).

On Thursday, June 2, 2016 at 2:39:41 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
> On 06/02/2016 05:30 PM, Evan Baird wrote: 
> > For the record, I'm keeping it all organic until my shitty joints 
> finally crap out. 
> > 
>
> Even when they do, prosthetics don't require electric powered bicycles 
> (having half an artificial knee I can speak with personal knowledge on 
> this subject).  Actually most everyone I know using e-bikes has either 
> blocked coronary arteries or a heart damaged by an MI.  That could just 
> be the demographic I hang out with, though... 
>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-06 Thread Joe Bernard

Someone mentioned I would need fatter tires (Patrick Moore?), and I blew it off 
with "later after the skinny slicks wear out..I'll be fine." Wrong! I greatly 
underestimated how harsh the ride would be on a now-heavy bicycle capable of 
running a consistent 20mph. Sheesh! I have Continental "Traffic II" 2.1-inch 
tires on the way.  

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-02 Thread David Person

Very cool Joe.


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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-02 Thread Joe Bernard

To be clear - I'm not sure it is anymore in this long thread - my interest in 
ebikes is primarily because they're fun. Yes it makes my big hill easier to 
climb, but I didn't buy my first electric for any other reason than I found one 
cheap on Craigslist in my area, and thought it would be interesting to try. It 
turned out to be WAY more fun than I anticipated, which is how we got to eCLEM. 
I can still climb the hill on my non-asist bikes, and sometimes still do. 
Sometimes I don't!

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-02 Thread Steve Palincsar



On 06/02/2016 05:30 PM, Evan Baird wrote:

For the record, I'm keeping it all organic until my shitty joints finally crap 
out.



Even when they do, prosthetics don't require electric powered bicycles 
(having half an artificial knee I can speak with personal knowledge on 
this subject).  Actually most everyone I know using e-bikes has either 
blocked coronary arteries or a heart damaged by an MI.  That could just 
be the demographic I hang out with, though...


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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-02 Thread Evan Baird

For the record, I'm keeping it all organic until my shitty joints finally crap 
out.

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-01 Thread Ryan Fleming

Not ready to go there yet, but it's something to consider especially that 
I'm on the tail end of the boomer generation (born in 1952) where health 
issues can start...arthritis, heart issues...whatever and it looks like you 
can turn the assist off. If it prolongs your bike-riding life then I say go 
for it. I've seen a few electric/gas-powered assist McGivered  bikes in 
Winnipeg. Joe, I think you did a very interesting thing there, actually. 
 Yes, you should ride it to Walnut Creek and show it off! 

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 4:04:43 AM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I'm a current motorhead (I love auto racing and my FIAT Abarth) and ex 
> motorcycle rider, so this clicks several boxes for me. I don't consider 
> eCLEM a replacement for my non-assist bikes; it's kind of a different 
> thing, like a really light, low-power motorbike you can pedal. 
>
> I know Grant had no intention of accomplishing it, but his long-chainstay 
> design and stable handling is a fabulous platform for electric assist. I 
> did a very hilly ride today, mostly with the assist at low levels so I was 
> still doing some of the work, and it was an absurd amount of fun. 
>
> I'm not here to convert anyone to electric, I'm just showing it because 
> it's on my Riv, and this is where people show their Rivs. Am I the first to 
> try it? I know Dave at RBW intends to do one eventually, but I don't think 
> he's gotten to it yet. I should ride it to Walnut Creek and show him!
>
>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-06-01 Thread Joe Bernard

Evan, I'm not sure Grant had much thought of ebikes in the development of CLEM, 
but I'll buy that the youngsters may have given it some thought. I know Dave 
rode a bunch of electrics in Taiwan, and plans to get a shop CLEM boosted one 
of these days. It's definitely a good platform for it, although I think the 
commuter market is in turnkey ebikes, not kit conversions. I would be shocked 
if we ever saw a dedicated eRiv..I suspect just reading that sentence would 
make GP blanch ;-)

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-31 Thread Evan Baird

When I first saw the geometry for these I figured that was Riv's plan all 
along. It makes perfect sense. The ebike commuter market in California is 
set to grow far in excess of the rest of the bike industry combined, and 
there bikes are loads more appealing to the target demographics (aka non 
spandorks).

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-25 Thread Joe Bernard

Thanks, Cecily!

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-25 Thread Cecily Walker

This is definitely relevant to my interests! Great job, Joe!

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:19:23 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I did the deed and you can see it here. I bought this kit used and 
> attached to a hybrid, then decided I liked it so much that I wanted it on a 
> nicer bike. It still needs wood fenders installed, and the wires need a 
> better cover than that blue plastic I jury-rigged to avoid today's 
> after-rain spray. Check it out, people who check out things!
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/18972972@N08/shares/GR3Qjv
>
> Joe "Electric Avenue" Bernard
> Vallejo, CA.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-25 Thread David Person

I meant to say that the steps between gears on the 8 speed Nexus/Alfine are not 
as even as the 2 x 9 setup on the Sam.  

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-23 Thread Joe Bernard

Yep yep, that's the way I would go if I was starting from scratch with a new 
kit. This one pulled from an old KHS is very rear-heavy, which works well 
enough on the very stable CLEM with long chainstays, but it's not ideal. The 
first thing I'll change when this battery wears out is to put a new pack in a 
frame bag. 

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-23 Thread David Person

Thanks Joe.  The Alfine/Nexus IGH works quite will with the e-assist, being 
able to downshift while stationary if I forget to do so before stopping for 
a light.  It adds noticeable weight to the rear wheel and the steps are as 
nice as the 2 x 9 on my Sam, but they balance out the weight of the front 
hub motor well, especially with the battery on the downtube.

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 8:13:42 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I like your Public D8. They make pretty bikes. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-23 Thread Joe Bernard

Yes, the varying levels of pedal assist make for a much more bicycle-like ride 
than the ones where you just jam the throttle and hold on. Mine has both, but 
Faraday makes a lovely PAS-only bike; they purposely eschew a throttle so that 
their classicly styled double-tuber remains a bicycle. 

I did my second ride on eCLEM yesterday and did about half of it with no power 
at all, then used 1-3 later in the day as the winds started howling. I still 
got a decent workout, but managed to make it back before dark. I was very 
grateful for the option right about then, 'cause that slog home after the winds 
kicked in would've been endless. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-23 Thread masmojo

To those people who have tried Ebikes only one thing I would mention &  that is 
that not all systems work the same AND in only the last couple years most 
systems have improved measurably. 
I don't have any real knowledge of this unfortunately,  beyond my recent online 
research on the subject,  there's a local shop that only sells Ebikes and I do 
intend to get over there and try some out.
That said, some systems are like a throttle pull & go! Others newer systems are 
really just assistances, with the amount of assistance set by situation.  
Riding on a flat or downhill? Dial the assist back; going up hill or gotta 
boggie? Crank it up. 
Should Ebike riders join normal club rides!? Wow, no I don't think so! I 
personally would feel weird doing that.  E assist shouldn't be used to somehow 
make you feel like Greg Lemond. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-23 Thread Shoji Takahashi

Hi Joe,
I think the eCLEM is awesome. I'm tempted to help with shlepping the kids 
and also having my spouse out more with me/us on rides. Don't think we're 
in the market for it now, though.

Tailwinds-- just dial it up by throttle!

shoji



On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 4:19:02 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> A couple other Riv comments: 1. The Choco-Moose is a fabulous bar. It 
> feels like the grip position and angle were custom fit for me..amazing. 2. 
> That mustard Appaloosa is gorgeous. There's a 51 Ready To Ride at RBW right 
> now, and I'd dearly love to find the cash for it. It would not get an 
> electric motor :)

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

I like your Public D8. They make pretty bikes. 

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread David Person

Enjoy the ride.

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 4:01:23 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Yep, I'm ordering one tonight. Not a fan of the wheel floppage!

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

Yep, I'm ordering one tonight. Not a fan of the wheel floppage!

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread David Person

But I still love my Sam Hillborne.

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 3:05:31 PM UTC-7, David Person wrote:
>
> I did the same with my Public D8i and my wife's Linus M8i.  Now we stay 
> together and actually ride more.
>
>>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread David Person

Joe, might I suggest one of these, especially with the double kickstand:

http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/vo-wheel-stabilizer.html

Makes a big difference in keeping that front wheel from flopping over when 
parked.

David

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:19:23 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I did the deed and you can see it here. I bought this kit used and 
> attached to a hybrid, then decided I liked it so much that I wanted it on a 
> nicer bike. It still needs wood fenders installed, and the wires need a 
> better cover than that blue plastic I jury-rigged to avoid today's 
> after-rain spray. Check it out, people who check out things!
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/18972972@N08/shares/GR3Qjv
>
> Joe "Electric Avenue" Bernard
> Vallejo, CA.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

A couple other Riv comments: 1. The Choco-Moose is a fabulous bar. It feels 
like the grip position and angle were custom fit for me..amazing. 2. That 
mustard Appaloosa is gorgeous. There's a 51 Ready To Ride at RBW right now, and 
I'd dearly love to find the cash for it. It would not get an electric motor :)

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

Personally, I think mixing an e-bike into a group ride - fast or recreational - 
kinda defeats the purpose of the group's ride. I wouldn't do it, but them again 
I don't do group rides so this isn't an issue I need to sort out. I electrified 
one of my bikes because I think it's fun. It's not going to do 15mph for 50 
miles, which is ok because I don't do that on regular bikes, either. 

Where it's made the biggest difference in my life is this: I used to have days 
on my big hill where I blew off a ride because I just didn't feel like doing 
that long, slow slog home, so I ended up on the couch. Now those days become 
assisted rides where I'm still outside and still pedaling. Upgrade!

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread Steve Palincsar




On 05/22/2016 03:19 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

Understood..I'm not trying to convince you that e-bikes are a thing you should 
like. Mine is set up with a 0-5 pedal-assist, and I would use 0 for the riding 
situation you described. I like this motor on this frame in the conditions I 
ride in, but there are scenarios - like a MUP with joggers and people pushing 
strollers - where it would NOT be welcome.

To reiterate before this turns into a helmet-type thread: This is a thing I did 
with my Riv, so I hollered about it on the Riv forum. YRMV, including thinking 
it's perfectly awful. That's ok! Now I better hush up and go riding...



No, I think collectively we are all a very, very long way from the way 
helmet threads are.  Positions aren't hardened here; I think many people 
are trying to understand whether and where these things might be of 
value, and where they absolutely don't belong.  That's the exact 
opposite of the helmet situation.


The folks I know in the bike club who use them are all to some extent 
physically handicapped: blocked coronary arteries, damage done by 
previous heart attacks, or "just plain got old and tired." Those folks 
have managed to integrate pretty well into a group while riding a fairly 
busy MUP, at least for short distances (the rides in question don't stay 
on the path where there's a real alternative).


I have seen the occasional electrified commuter who is clearly in too 
much of a hurry for the trail -- even the major league pathletes don't 
go quite as fast as that guy with the electrified Bike Friday -- and 
I've heard some major complaints from club riders about a guy who 
brought a pedelec on a club ride and used it to effortlessly zoom to the 
head of the pack while they were grunting up a long steep hill; somehow 
they viewed that as cheating.


One of those friends with an e-bike also mentioned another issue he's 
noted: speed vs range.  He brought the e-bike to a moderately long and 
not slow (not fast, either, nothing like the higher rated classes) club 
ride, and discovered that he couldn't keep up with a 13 mph average 
speed group on a 50 mile ride without having to use so much power he ran 
out of battery before the end of the ride, and once that happened thanks 
to the additional weight of the e-bike he no longer could keep up on 
pedal power alone.   To do 50 miles, he'd have to go slower to extend 
the range; but the groups that ride at that slower speed also ride 
shorter rides, and besides he could keep up with those folks on a 
non-electrified bike... provided they stay away from harder, steeper 
climbs, which they do as a matter of course.


So, then is there a role for a pedelec on a recreational ride? Where, if 
anywhere, do they fit in, and under what circumstances? Some of us are 
still trying to understand that.


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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

Ah, I think I saw that back thing, Patrick. The 500 is not an easy car to rack 
if you have the sunroof or convertible, so there was a lot of bodging going on 
at first. I have the cabrio, which I never even *tried* to figure out. If I 
need to transport, I pull the wheels off a regular bike and stuff the frame in 
the back seat, or take a folder. Easy!

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread Patrick Moore

IIRC, I came across this man very shortly after the neo retro F 500 came
into the US market, so he may have been too far on the front of the wave.

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Wow, Patrick, that's quite a bodge. Someone should tell that guy he can
> buy bike racks actually designed for FIAT 500s...
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread Patrick Moore

Joe: FWIW, I think your electrification is truly Rivendellian. If the motor
serves a real purpose, and you can use a Rivendell to accomplish that
purpose, then you have hit a true sweet spot.

On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 1:19 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Understood..I'm not trying to convince you that e-bikes are a thing you
> should like. Mine is set up with a 0-5 pedal-assist, and I would use 0 for
> the riding situation you described. I like this motor on this frame in the
> conditions I ride in, but there are scenarios - like a MUP with joggers and
> people pushing strollers - where it would NOT be welcome.
>
> To reiterate before this turns into a helmet-type thread: This is a thing
> I did with my Riv, so I hollered about it on the Riv forum. YRMV, including
> thinking it's perfectly awful. That's ok! Now I better hush up and go
> riding...
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

Wow, Patrick, that's quite a bodge. Someone should tell that guy he can buy 
bike racks actually designed for FIAT 500s...

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

Understood..I'm not trying to convince you that e-bikes are a thing you should 
like. Mine is set up with a 0-5 pedal-assist, and I would use 0 for the riding 
situation you described. I like this motor on this frame in the conditions I 
ride in, but there are scenarios - like a MUP with joggers and people pushing 
strollers - where it would NOT be welcome. 

To reiterate before this turns into a helmet-type thread: This is a thing I did 
with my Riv, so I hollered about it on the Riv forum. YRMV, including thinking 
it's perfectly awful. That's ok! Now I better hush up and go riding...

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread Steve Palincsar




On 05/22/2016 02:50 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:
Expensive, but cheaper than a car. I wonder how they compare with 
Whizzer motors.


A lot less exhaust stink and noise, for sure.


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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

1. The highest speed I've seen with this kit on its original KHS frame; and now 
CLEM yesterday; is a pedal-pushed 28mph, which is easily do-able on descents 
around here without a motor. It rides like a normal stoutish-built Rivendell 
with a bunch of weight added in. The motor's top speed on flat ground is around 
20.

Concerning one poster's comment about charging out into traffic with a big 
burst of frame-stressing speed, DON'T DO THAT. I wouldn't grab a handful of 
throttle on an e-bike any more than I would a motorcycle. I ride it like a 
normal bicycle that has a massive tailwind for the very steep climb back to my 
house after a day's journey.

2. I told Grant about this before it was finished, and sent him and Dave 
finished photos yesterday. Dave expressed some interest in electric on the Blug 
a few months ago, and we chatted about them then. None of us ever mentioned a 
warranty 'cause making a claim on one after putting a motor on their frame 
would be madness. I bought it, I modified it, I break it, I own it. Done!

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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread Steve Palincsar


On 05/22/2016 01:33 PM, Lungimsam wrote:

I dont temember the model. Only know what the salesman said.



Quoting the Wikipedia:

   /An //*electric bicycle*//, also known as an //*e-bike*//or
   //*booster bike*//, is a //bicycle
   //with an integrated
   //electric motor
   //which can be used
   for propulsion. There are a great variety of e-bikes available
   worldwide, from e-bikes that only have a small motor to assist the
   rider's pedal-power (i.e., //pedelecs
   //) to somewhat more powerful
   e-bikes which tend closer to //moped
   //-style functionality: all,
   however, retain the ability to be //pedalled
   //by the rider and are
   therefore not //electric motorcycles
   //. E-bikes use
   rechargeable batteries and the lighter varieties can travel up to 25
   to 32 km/h (16 to 20 mph), depending on the laws of the country in
   which they are sold, while the more high-powered varieties can often
   do in excess of 45 km/h (28 mph). In some markets, such as Germany,
   they are gaining in popularity and taking some market share away
   from conventional bicycles,//^[1]
    //while
   in others, such as China, they are replacing //fossil fuel
   //-powered //mopeds
   //and small motorcycles.//^[2]
   
   //^[3]
   
   /

   /Depending on local laws, many e-bikes (e.g., //pedelecs//) are
   legally classified as bicycles rather than //mopeds
   //or //motorcycles
   //, so they are not
   subject to the more stringent laws regarding their certification and
   operation, unlike the more powerful two-wheelers which are often
   classed as //electric motorcycles
   //. //

   /

While higher power models obviously exist, I think mostly what the bike 
shops are pushing are pedelecs aimed at commuters.  Around here (metro 
DC area) that's typically a 20 mph top speed pedelec, like the Trek I 
linked to.  I know a few people who have that bike or one similar but 
lacking the Headshok suspension.  There are far more expensive models 
(Specialized has an electric mountain bike that's around ten thousand 
bucks, but I have no idea of its top speed) but based on everything I've 
read, if they've got one that can get up to 40 mph in as small a space 
as a typical LBS parking lot that's got to be an electric motorcycle.  I 
doubt most cars can get up to 40 in that small a space even using Launch 
Control and doing a furious burn-out.  Perhaps the salesman is 
exaggerating?  Of course, they would never lie...


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Re: [RBW] Re: eCLEM

I dont temember the model. Only know what the salesman said.

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

I am just guessing, based on the report that at my LBS they say that their 
model can get up to 40mph inside their parking lot. I don't think too many 
humans could get a bike going that fast in such a short distance based on 
leg power. So I was deducing the possibility of acute strain on chainstays, 
etc. to jam that much power through the stays in such a short time frame. 
Of course, I know nothing about these things so I could be wrong.

I don't know what speeds Joe's eClem pulls but just thought it would be 
good to check with RBW so he doesn't get an unwarranty claim rejected 
because he's using an electric assist.

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

The only concerns I would have with continuing with the eClemming are:

1. That battery looks heavy. Might make it easy to pop unwanted wheelies.

2. If you plan to keep running this e-version of a Clem, maybe call RBW to 
confirm that it will not void your un-warranty. With the recent blug post 
about disque brakes and forces on tubes, they might have some thoughts on 
eClemming. 

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

The kit is the highest-power one from Doug in Fairfield, CA. Great guy..I 
bought it used, then he sold me the pedal-assist parts (it was throttle only) 
and relaced the wheel to 26 inch. Tell 'im Joe sent ya! gocarlite.com

2013 Abarth
https://flic.kr/p/GYMJsQ

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread Jeremy Tavan

That seems like a fabulous idea to me. I've been trying to figure out the 
role that each of my bikes will fill, and the idea of an electric-assist 
conversion for the clem hadn't occurred to me. But you're right, the clem 
would make a nice, roomy, stable platform for such a conversion, and it 
would make the Clem a sufficiently different beast from other wide-tire 
utility bikes that it would have a distinct role. What motor and battery 
kit is that? I think you've inspired me!

Thanks,
/Jeremy

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:19:23 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I did the deed and you can see it here. I bought this kit used and 
> attached to a hybrid, then decided I liked it so much that I wanted it on a 
> nicer bike. It still needs wood fenders installed, and the wires need a 
> better cover than that blue plastic I jury-rigged to avoid today's 
> after-rain spray. Check it out, people who check out things!
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/18972972@N08/shares/GR3Qjv
>
> Joe "Electric Avenue" Bernard
> Vallejo, CA.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread LLM

Make and model?

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

Very cool.
Looks like fun.
My wife wants an ebike for her next bike.
A Ricendell with Copenhagen wheel would be cool. Rivendell could just sell 
Copenhagen wheels on their site. But they are very expensive.

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM

2016-05-22 Thread masmojo

I am not opposed to E-assist, in some cases; a motor sports fan myself.  I do 
have to admit out of all the bikes I have, my Clementine is the one I feel 
could benefit the most from something like this & when I am plodding up a hill 
with 12lbs of crap in the basket,  cartoon images of typhoon tail winds, 
antigravity devices & motors dance through my head.
My main fear is that out of all my bikes the Clementine gets the call up more 
often then I'd like to admit,  if I put a motor on her, I might never ride 
anything else!?

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[RBW] Re: eCLEM