Re: [RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

2020-09-30 Thread Grady Wright 
I have had the same experience with my new silver shifters. They will not 
hold their position even when I tighten them to the point It's to difficult 
to shift. I am using an old M952 xtr derailleur.  They've even frayed and 
broken the shifter cable. I emailed them about it a couple time with no 
response but seems from the latest blog I believe that they are addressing 
at least the issue with it cutting the cable. Little disappointed as they 
are really nice looking shifters.  

On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 11:32:06 p.m. UTC-6 Sam Perez wrote:

> Oh I didn't think of that I'm only just now tinkering with more than just 
> changing handle bars. I don't remember the last time I purchased a 
> replacement. I remember I broke the chain 2 years ago and replaced it. 
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 12:55 PM tuolumne bikes  wrote:
>
>> Are you absolutely sure the cable is slipping? Does it always move in the 
>> same direction? (Gets harder to pedal for traditional rear derailleur.) 
>> Never happens in index mode? Skipping on worn cogs with a newer chain can 
>> seem like a shifting problem especially if it's on the larger cogs and 
>> you're pedaling hard uphill. If the cassette is oldish, replacing it can 
>> narrow down the possibilities.
>>
>> Carl
>> On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:
>>
>>> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
>>> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
>>> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>>>
>>> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
>>> shifts. (lots of hills)
>>> -tightened the bolt (done) 
>>> -tightened the D ring (done)
>>> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>>>
>>> any thoughts?
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

2020-08-27 Thread Sam Perez 
Oh I didn't think of that I'm only just now tinkering with more than just
changing handle bars. I don't remember the last time I purchased a
replacement. I remember I broke the chain 2 years ago and replaced it.

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020, 12:55 PM tuolumne bikes 
wrote:

> Are you absolutely sure the cable is slipping? Does it always move in the
> same direction? (Gets harder to pedal for traditional rear derailleur.)
> Never happens in index mode? Skipping on worn cogs with a newer chain can
> seem like a shifting problem especially if it's on the larger cogs and
> you're pedaling hard uphill. If the cassette is oldish, replacing it can
> narrow down the possibilities.
>
> Carl
> On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:
>
>> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold
>> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace
>> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>>
>> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few
>> shifts. (lots of hills)
>> -tightened the bolt (done)
>> -tightened the D ring (done)
>> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done)
>>
>> any thoughts?
>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

2020-08-27 Thread tuolumne bikes 
Are you absolutely sure the cable is slipping? Does it always move in the 
same direction? (Gets harder to pedal for traditional rear derailleur.) 
Never happens in index mode? Skipping on worn cogs with a newer chain can 
seem like a shifting problem especially if it's on the larger cogs and 
you're pedaling hard uphill. If the cassette is oldish, replacing it can 
narrow down the possibilities.

Carl
On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:

> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>
> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
> shifts. (lots of hills)
> -tightened the bolt (done) 
> -tightened the D ring (done)
> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>
> any thoughts?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

2020-08-27 Thread Andreas 
As you state this occurs under hard efforts, it could be that this is due 
to a "soft" frame and has nothing to do with the shifting setup.

Andreas

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 10:14:40 AM UTC-4, Sam Perez wrote:
>
> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>
> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
> shifts. (lots of hills)
> -tightened the bolt (done) 
> -tightened the D ring (done)
> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>
> any thoughts?
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

2020-08-27 Thread Sam Perez 
On the silver shifter I have a Shimano xt rear derailleur and on the dura
ace down tube I have a micro shift short cage deraliur. Hmm 樂 I tightened
it to the point it takes effort to shift so, looks like this could be frame
flex/Rd shifter combo/ need of adjustible locktight..

On Thu, Aug 20, 2020, 9:15 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Yes, many good mechanics know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that
> wont hold gears under hard effort
>
> My thoughts are that there is one of two things going on: Either you are
> never getting it tight enough, or it is loosening itself up.
>
> The reason you may not be able to get it tight enough is that the bolt
> that threads into the downtube shifter boss is bottoming out at the bottom
> of the threaded hole.  It feels tight in your hand, because it's bottoming
> out, but it's not actually squeezing the friction bits any harder.  To test
> this, tighten it to confirm whether it is possible to make it too-tight.
> Can you tighten it to a point where the friction is clearly too firm?  If
> so, then this is not what is going on.  Alternatively remove the shifter
> entirely and install only the bolt and observe how far in you can thread it
> before it bottoms out.  See what that looks like and what it feels like.
> If you determine the bolt is bottoming out, carefully file 0.5mm off the
> end and you should be good.
>
> If you can get it tight enough, and it transitions from 'tight enough' to
> 'not tight enough' over a few shifts, then the bolt is loosening itself.
> Consider using a not-too-permanent threadlocker.  I'd start with blue
> Loctite.  Also decide if you have parts that don't fit well on the shifter
> boss that are free to wobble somewhat, and that wobbling helps auto-extract
> the bolt.
>
> If the judgement calls are difficult, find a good mechanic you trust to
> put their eyes on it.  One other contributor can be excessive friction on
> the cable at the BB.  Your hard efforts cause the cable to very slightly
> tighten and loosen as you flex the frame.  The friction between the cable
> and the housing or guides at the BB can 'win' in the tug-of-war with the
> shifter.
>
> The last thing is to question whether the return spring on your rear
> derailler is just too strong.  If you are using an RD that is clearly
> intended for index-only operation, or one with a known super-burly spring,
> you just may have a poor combo of parts.
>
> These are the things I'd go through if the bike(s) were in my stand
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito CA
>
> On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:
>
>> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold
>> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace
>> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>>
>> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few
>> shifts. (lots of hills)
>> -tightened the bolt (done)
>> -tightened the D ring (done)
>> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done)
>>
>> any thoughts?
>>
>> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1bf8cf26-66e7-4afe-8c15-a0fe2050209an%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

2020-08-20 Thread Bill Lindsay 
Yes, many good mechanics know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that 
wont hold gears under hard effort

My thoughts are that there is one of two things going on: Either you are 
never getting it tight enough, or it is loosening itself up.  

The reason you may not be able to get it tight enough is that the bolt that 
threads into the downtube shifter boss is bottoming out at the bottom of 
the threaded hole.  It feels tight in your hand, because it's bottoming 
out, but it's not actually squeezing the friction bits any harder.  To test 
this, tighten it to confirm whether it is possible to make it too-tight.  
Can you tighten it to a point where the friction is clearly too firm?  If 
so, then this is not what is going on.  Alternatively remove the shifter 
entirely and install only the bolt and observe how far in you can thread it 
before it bottoms out.  See what that looks like and what it feels like.  
If you determine the bolt is bottoming out, carefully file 0.5mm off the 
end and you should be good.  

If you can get it tight enough, and it transitions from 'tight enough' to 
'not tight enough' over a few shifts, then the bolt is loosening itself.  
Consider using a not-too-permanent threadlocker.  I'd start with blue 
Loctite.  Also decide if you have parts that don't fit well on the shifter 
boss that are free to wobble somewhat, and that wobbling helps auto-extract 
the bolt.  

If the judgement calls are difficult, find a good mechanic you trust to put 
their eyes on it.  One other contributor can be excessive friction on the 
cable at the BB.  Your hard efforts cause the cable to very slightly 
tighten and loosen as you flex the frame.  The friction between the cable 
and the housing or guides at the BB can 'win' in the tug-of-war with the 
shifter.  

The last thing is to question whether the return spring on your rear 
derailler is just too strong.  If you are using an RD that is clearly 
intended for index-only operation, or one with a known super-burly spring, 
you just may have a poor combo of parts.  

These are the things I'd go through if the bike(s) were in my stand

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito CA  

On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:

> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>
> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
> shifts. (lots of hills)
> -tightened the bolt (done) 
> -tightened the D ring (done)
> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>
> any thoughts?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: friction mode on silver shifters and shimano down tube dura ace shifters slip!

2020-08-20 Thread Cyclofiend Jim 
Check the cable routing, especially the ferrule fit. A minor movement 
between the cable and ferrule or the ferrule and a cable stop can sometimes 
cause this.
Double-check that there is not a "second" ferrule stuck in a stop somewhere 
(including the derailleur). 
If the bike was built up with too tight of a cable/housing run, that 
sometimes causes that.  
Too tight of an arc at the RD.
Derailleur not completely tightened/attached.
Bent derailleur hanger

Since it's happening on two different sets of shifters, the problem is 
likely in the cable run or derailleur. 
Also, you might make sure that the bike was built up with the proper type 
of housing - brake housing and derailleur housing are not the same. 

Hope that helps!

- Jim


On Thursday, August 20, 2020 at 7:14:40 AM UTC-7, Sam Perez wrote:
>
> does any one know how to trouble shoot friction shifters that wont hold 
> gears under hard effort, i have riv silver shifters and 9speed dura ace 
> down tube shifters that slip on friction mode.
>
> I have done the following only to have the lever loose grip after a few 
> shifts. (lots of hills)
> -tightened the bolt (done) 
> -tightened the D ring (done)
> -adjusted the rear  deralure (done) 
>
> any thoughts?
>
>

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