Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
It's not impossible that there was something incorrect in their installation, but I do have other bikes with DiaComp centerpulls, plus the usual assortment of sidepulls, V-brakes, cantilever brakes, and disk brakes, so I think the problem was not installation-related. The fork I was using was built for 700C and required long-reach Tektro 559's to reach the rims. Then I switched it over to 650B and used some Tektro cyclo-cross sidepulls which worked fine (they got me through PBP in 2011) but have no quick-release, so they were a pain in the butt. That's why I switched to the Raid's, on which the pad-holders had to be pushed right down the bottom of the slot, maximizing the length of the lever arm. Standing astride the bike, squeezing the brake as hard as I can, and pushing hard down and forward, I could rock the bike and see the brake arms flex back and forth several mm at the pad-end. Enough that if I set the pads parallel to the rim, then under braking force their front tips would angle upward toward the edge of the tire. So I set the angle pointed slightly downward so that under braking force with the arms flexed forward, the pads would be parallel to the rim. The Raid brakes themselves were bought on EBay from some charity in France that buys old bike parts and then resells them and donates the proceeds to charity. They were clearly used, but I would not think that that would make them more flexible, just more likely to fail. I did replace the red plastic pivot sheaths with brass ones bought from a guy in Israel, which helped somewhat. If your Compass centerpulls had been available when I decided to get the new fork made, I might well have gone with them. But buying NOS Raid's, plus fancier build requirements to get the Mafac braze-ons correct, was too daunting so I went the easy, cantilever route. Anyway, for long-reach centerpulls, braze-ons are the way to go, in my opinion! Nick On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 4:23:35 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote: I think there was something very wrong with your Raid setup, so I am glad you are using a better-performing brake now! Being able to stop well is important, and it's not worth risking an emergency room visit to try and save a few dollars. Your braking problem is difficult to diagnose from a distance, and there are many variables with bolt-on centerpulls. The interface between the yoke and the fork crown matters greatly (unlike on a modern sidepull, where the bolt takes all the load). If the fork crown is shaped in a way that makes that interface less-than-optimal, it might affect your brake power. For example, a curved surface, or a raised lip around the hole... That would be my first guess. That is one of the reasons we offer the Compass centerpull brakes only for braze-on mounting. With dedicated braze-ons, you eliminate any flex at the fork crown/brake yoke interface, as well as within the brake yoke itself. As long as you have decent pads and rims, your stopping power and modulation will be among the best of any brake ever made. Jan Heine Compass Bicycles Ltd. Seattle WA USA http://www.compasscycle.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 8:15:11 AM UTC-7, NickBull wrote: Sorry, don't know. I was just comparing between bikes so ... on the Ram I could come to a full stop before the house number painted on the curb, but with the Raid's I came to a full stop about ten feet after. I would guess the stopping distance was about 25 feet on the Ram, but that doesn't mean a whole lot because I don't remember my target speed, and of course the downward angle of the road matters. On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 9:49:12 PM UTC-4, ted wrote: Guess I'm lucky and/or not discerning, since I'm pretty satisfied with how my Raid brake is working. Mildly curious, what was your stopping distance with with Shimano medium-reach brakes on your Rambouillet? On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 9:21:45 AM UTC-7, NickBull wrote: After a couple of years of trying to get my Raid brakes with arches and Kool Stop red pads to 1) not squeal intermittently, and 2) brake effectively, I finally gave up and bought a new fork for which I could mount cantilever brakes. The final straw was a comparison test that I did on a gentle hill near where I live, where I rode several bikes at a constant 20mph speed toward a particularly noticeable crack crossing the road and then did a panic stop at that point. The stopping distance was best for the Shimano medium-reach brakes that came on my Rambouillet, and only slightly worse for Dia Compe 600's and for Tektro CR720's and R559's. For the Raid's it was a good ten feet of additional stopping distance. Note that on my Raid brakes, in order for them to contact the rim at the correct angle, the pad-holders were slammed as far down as possible in the slots, creating the longest possible lever
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
Sorry, don't know. I was just comparing between bikes so ... on the Ram I could come to a full stop before the house number painted on the curb, but with the Raid's I came to a full stop about ten feet after. I would guess the stopping distance was about 25 feet on the Ram, but that doesn't mean a whole lot because I don't remember my target speed, and of course the downward angle of the road matters. On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 9:49:12 PM UTC-4, ted wrote: Guess I'm lucky and/or not discerning, since I'm pretty satisfied with how my Raid brake is working. Mildly curious, what was your stopping distance with with Shimano medium-reach brakes on your Rambouillet? On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 9:21:45 AM UTC-7, NickBull wrote: After a couple of years of trying to get my Raid brakes with arches and Kool Stop red pads to 1) not squeal intermittently, and 2) brake effectively, I finally gave up and bought a new fork for which I could mount cantilever brakes. The final straw was a comparison test that I did on a gentle hill near where I live, where I rode several bikes at a constant 20mph speed toward a particularly noticeable crack crossing the road and then did a panic stop at that point. The stopping distance was best for the Shimano medium-reach brakes that came on my Rambouillet, and only slightly worse for Dia Compe 600's and for Tektro CR720's and R559's. For the Raid's it was a good ten feet of additional stopping distance. Note that on my Raid brakes, in order for them to contact the rim at the correct angle, the pad-holders were slammed as far down as possible in the slots, creating the longest possible lever arm. That may be why I had so much difficulty getting these adjusted for acceptable braking distances. Bolt-on Raid's would probably (but not definitely) have solved the problem, so I had to make a hard choice between having Waterford build up a cantilever fork or one with Mafac braze-ons. Since they had no experience with the latter, I was not all that confident that they'd get it right, and since my Raid's were bought used and have some noticeable wear, I decided that the millions of people riding on cantilever brakes (including me on my Burley tandem and Soma Grand Randonneur) are probably not making too big of a mistake, and I joined them. Nick On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 11:04:48 PM UTC-5, ted wrote: Minor update. This morning I took a little time and got the toe in down to something approaching the amount I typically find works well on other brakes I have set up. Rode up hill and down dale after that. The raid worked just fine. Lever travel is about what I like. No squealing (except one or two modest very low speed chirps). Braking power seemed fine to me. Controlled speed and stopped the bike just fine. One caveat, I don't think I am a particularly demanding brake user. I've got no complaints about how the CR720s and R559s I have used perform. I gather some find those under powered and can't stand em, so as usual YMMV. On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 7:53:45 AM UTC-8, A. L Young wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:19 PM, ted ted@comcast.net wrote: It's a bit lost in the mists of time, but I think I bought the aero levers to replace older non aero levers, and that they seemed the same (except for being aero). Do you know when levers started having more mechanical advantage? Was that a Mafac versus others differentiator? My understanding is that the more modern aero levers have more mechanical advantage than the older non-aero style due to the position of the pivot in the handle and direction of cable pull. I've used both types and when set up correctly had no complaints about braking, so maybe the mechanical-advantage advantage isn't the biggest issue. Aaron Young The Dalles, OR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
I think there was something very wrong with your Raid setup, so I am glad you are using a better-performing brake now! Being able to stop well is important, and it's not worth risking an emergency room visit to try and save a few dollars. Your braking problem is difficult to diagnose from a distance, and there are many variables with bolt-on centerpulls. The interface between the yoke and the fork crown matters greatly (unlike on a modern sidepull, where the bolt takes all the load). If the fork crown is shaped in a way that makes that interface less-than-optimal, it might affect your brake power. For example, a curved surface, or a raised lip around the hole... That would be my first guess. That is one of the reasons we offer the Compass centerpull brakes only for braze-on mounting. With dedicated braze-ons, you eliminate any flex at the fork crown/brake yoke interface, as well as within the brake yoke itself. As long as you have decent pads and rims, your stopping power and modulation will be among the best of any brake ever made. Jan Heine Compass Bicycles Ltd. Seattle WA USA http://www.compasscycle.com Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/ On Tuesday, March 10, 2015 at 8:15:11 AM UTC-7, NickBull wrote: Sorry, don't know. I was just comparing between bikes so ... on the Ram I could come to a full stop before the house number painted on the curb, but with the Raid's I came to a full stop about ten feet after. I would guess the stopping distance was about 25 feet on the Ram, but that doesn't mean a whole lot because I don't remember my target speed, and of course the downward angle of the road matters. On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 9:49:12 PM UTC-4, ted wrote: Guess I'm lucky and/or not discerning, since I'm pretty satisfied with how my Raid brake is working. Mildly curious, what was your stopping distance with with Shimano medium-reach brakes on your Rambouillet? On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 9:21:45 AM UTC-7, NickBull wrote: After a couple of years of trying to get my Raid brakes with arches and Kool Stop red pads to 1) not squeal intermittently, and 2) brake effectively, I finally gave up and bought a new fork for which I could mount cantilever brakes. The final straw was a comparison test that I did on a gentle hill near where I live, where I rode several bikes at a constant 20mph speed toward a particularly noticeable crack crossing the road and then did a panic stop at that point. The stopping distance was best for the Shimano medium-reach brakes that came on my Rambouillet, and only slightly worse for Dia Compe 600's and for Tektro CR720's and R559's. For the Raid's it was a good ten feet of additional stopping distance. Note that on my Raid brakes, in order for them to contact the rim at the correct angle, the pad-holders were slammed as far down as possible in the slots, creating the longest possible lever arm. That may be why I had so much difficulty getting these adjusted for acceptable braking distances. Bolt-on Raid's would probably (but not definitely) have solved the problem, so I had to make a hard choice between having Waterford build up a cantilever fork or one with Mafac braze-ons. Since they had no experience with the latter, I was not all that confident that they'd get it right, and since my Raid's were bought used and have some noticeable wear, I decided that the millions of people riding on cantilever brakes (including me on my Burley tandem and Soma Grand Randonneur) are probably not making too big of a mistake, and I joined them. Nick On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 11:04:48 PM UTC-5, ted wrote: Minor update. This morning I took a little time and got the toe in down to something approaching the amount I typically find works well on other brakes I have set up. Rode up hill and down dale after that. The raid worked just fine. Lever travel is about what I like. No squealing (except one or two modest very low speed chirps). Braking power seemed fine to me. Controlled speed and stopped the bike just fine. One caveat, I don't think I am a particularly demanding brake user. I've got no complaints about how the CR720s and R559s I have used perform. I gather some find those under powered and can't stand em, so as usual YMMV. On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 7:53:45 AM UTC-8, A. L Young wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:19 PM, ted ted@comcast.net wrote: It's a bit lost in the mists of time, but I think I bought the aero levers to replace older non aero levers, and that they seemed the same (except for being aero). Do you know when levers started having more mechanical advantage? Was that a Mafac versus others differentiator? My understanding is that the more modern aero levers have more mechanical advantage than the older non-aero style due to the position of the pivot in the handle and direction of cable pull. I've used both types and when
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
After a couple of years of trying to get my Raid brakes with arches and Kool Stop red pads to 1) not squeal intermittently, and 2) brake effectively, I finally gave up and bought a new fork for which I could mount cantilever brakes. The final straw was a comparison test that I did on a gentle hill near where I live, where I rode several bikes at a constant 20mph speed toward a particularly noticeable crack crossing the road and then did a panic stop at that point. The stopping distance was best for the Shimano medium-reach brakes that came on my Rambouillet, and only slightly worse for Dia Compe 600's and for Tektro CR720's and R559's. For the Raid's it was a good ten feet of additional stopping distance. Note that on my Raid brakes, in order for them to contact the rim at the correct angle, the pad-holders were slammed as far down as possible in the slots, creating the longest possible lever arm. That may be why I had so much difficulty getting these adjusted for acceptable braking distances. Bolt-on Raid's would probably (but not definitely) have solved the problem, so I had to make a hard choice between having Waterford build up a cantilever fork or one with Mafac braze-ons. Since they had no experience with the latter, I was not all that confident that they'd get it right, and since my Raid's were bought used and have some noticeable wear, I decided that the millions of people riding on cantilever brakes (including me on my Burley tandem and Soma Grand Randonneur) are probably not making too big of a mistake, and I joined them. Nick On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 11:04:48 PM UTC-5, ted wrote: Minor update. This morning I took a little time and got the toe in down to something approaching the amount I typically find works well on other brakes I have set up. Rode up hill and down dale after that. The raid worked just fine. Lever travel is about what I like. No squealing (except one or two modest very low speed chirps). Braking power seemed fine to me. Controlled speed and stopped the bike just fine. One caveat, I don't think I am a particularly demanding brake user. I've got no complaints about how the CR720s and R559s I have used perform. I gather some find those under powered and can't stand em, so as usual YMMV. On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 7:53:45 AM UTC-8, A. L Young wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:19 PM, ted ted@comcast.net wrote: It's a bit lost in the mists of time, but I think I bought the aero levers to replace older non aero levers, and that they seemed the same (except for being aero). Do you know when levers started having more mechanical advantage? Was that a Mafac versus others differentiator? My understanding is that the more modern aero levers have more mechanical advantage than the older non-aero style due to the position of the pivot in the handle and direction of cable pull. I've used both types and when set up correctly had no complaints about braking, so maybe the mechanical-advantage advantage isn't the biggest issue. Aaron Young The Dalles, OR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
Interesting. Not immediately related, but similar: I had problems with cold weather squealing with my single pivot, normal reach front equipped with salmon pads; the rims are quite narrow. Modifying the shoe position for better arch clearance for fenders, I installed thick washers behind the pads -- and coincidentally, took the opportunity, while the pads were removed, to give them a good sanding. The brakes not only clear the fender better, but are stronger and don't squeal -- very refreshing. On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 10:21 AM, NickBull nick.bike.b...@gmail.com wrote: After a couple of years of trying to get my Raid brakes with arches and Kool Stop red pads to 1) not squeal intermittently, and 2) brake effectively, I finally gave up and bought a new fork for which I could mount cantilever brakes. The final straw was a comparison test that I did on a gentle hill near where I live, where I rode several bikes at a constant 20mph speed toward a particularly noticeable crack crossing the road and then did a panic stop at that point. The stopping distance was best for the Shimano medium-reach brakes that came on my Rambouillet, and only slightly worse for Dia Compe 600's and for Tektro CR720's and R559's. For the Raid's it was a good ten feet of additional stopping distance. Note that on my Raid brakes, in order for them to contact the rim at the correct angle, the pad-holders were slammed as far down as possible in the slots, creating the longest possible lever arm. That may be why I had so much difficulty getting these adjusted for acceptable braking distances. Bolt-on Raid's would probably (but not definitely) have solved the problem, so I had to make a hard choice between having Waterford build up a cantilever fork or one with Mafac braze-ons. Since they had no experience with the latter, I was not all that confident that they'd get it right, and since my Raid's were bought used and have some noticeable wear, I decided that the millions of people riding on cantilever brakes (including me on my Burley tandem and Soma Grand Randonneur) are probably not making too big of a mistake, and I joined them. Nick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
Since they had no experience with the latter, I was not all that confident that they'd get it right, and since my Raid's were bought used and have some noticeable wear, I decided that the millions of people riding on cantilever brakes (including me on my Burley tandem and Soma Grand Randonneur) are probably not making too big of a mistake, and I joined them. I had a bike with braze-on MaxiCars. Stopped on a dime. You would definitely want someone who knows what they are doing setting up for you though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
Sorry, had MaxiCar hubs on the brain when I posted above. Should read: braze-on Mafacs. On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 12:30:57 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: Since they had no experience with the latter, I was not all that confident that they'd get it right, and since my Raid's were bought used and have some noticeable wear, I decided that the millions of people riding on cantilever brakes (including me on my Burley tandem and Soma Grand Randonneur) are probably not making too big of a mistake, and I joined them. I had a bike with braze-on MaxiCars. Stopped on a dime. You would definitely want someone who knows what they are doing setting up for you though. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
Guess I'm lucky and/or not discerning, since I'm pretty satisfied with how my Raid brake is working. Mildly curious, what was your stopping distance with with Shimano medium-reach brakes on your Rambouillet? On Monday, March 9, 2015 at 9:21:45 AM UTC-7, NickBull wrote: After a couple of years of trying to get my Raid brakes with arches and Kool Stop red pads to 1) not squeal intermittently, and 2) brake effectively, I finally gave up and bought a new fork for which I could mount cantilever brakes. The final straw was a comparison test that I did on a gentle hill near where I live, where I rode several bikes at a constant 20mph speed toward a particularly noticeable crack crossing the road and then did a panic stop at that point. The stopping distance was best for the Shimano medium-reach brakes that came on my Rambouillet, and only slightly worse for Dia Compe 600's and for Tektro CR720's and R559's. For the Raid's it was a good ten feet of additional stopping distance. Note that on my Raid brakes, in order for them to contact the rim at the correct angle, the pad-holders were slammed as far down as possible in the slots, creating the longest possible lever arm. That may be why I had so much difficulty getting these adjusted for acceptable braking distances. Bolt-on Raid's would probably (but not definitely) have solved the problem, so I had to make a hard choice between having Waterford build up a cantilever fork or one with Mafac braze-ons. Since they had no experience with the latter, I was not all that confident that they'd get it right, and since my Raid's were bought used and have some noticeable wear, I decided that the millions of people riding on cantilever brakes (including me on my Burley tandem and Soma Grand Randonneur) are probably not making too big of a mistake, and I joined them. Nick On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 11:04:48 PM UTC-5, ted wrote: Minor update. This morning I took a little time and got the toe in down to something approaching the amount I typically find works well on other brakes I have set up. Rode up hill and down dale after that. The raid worked just fine. Lever travel is about what I like. No squealing (except one or two modest very low speed chirps). Braking power seemed fine to me. Controlled speed and stopped the bike just fine. One caveat, I don't think I am a particularly demanding brake user. I've got no complaints about how the CR720s and R559s I have used perform. I gather some find those under powered and can't stand em, so as usual YMMV. On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 7:53:45 AM UTC-8, A. L Young wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:19 PM, ted ted@comcast.net wrote: It's a bit lost in the mists of time, but I think I bought the aero levers to replace older non aero levers, and that they seemed the same (except for being aero). Do you know when levers started having more mechanical advantage? Was that a Mafac versus others differentiator? My understanding is that the more modern aero levers have more mechanical advantage than the older non-aero style due to the position of the pivot in the handle and direction of cable pull. I've used both types and when set up correctly had no complaints about braking, so maybe the mechanical-advantage advantage isn't the biggest issue. Aaron Young The Dalles, OR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:19 PM, ted ted.ke...@comcast.net wrote: It's a bit lost in the mists of time, but I think I bought the aero levers to replace older non aero levers, and that they seemed the same (except for being aero). Do you know when levers started having more mechanical advantage? Was that a Mafac versus others differentiator? My understanding is that the more modern aero levers have more mechanical advantage than the older non-aero style due to the position of the pivot in the handle and direction of cable pull. I've used both types and when set up correctly had no complaints about braking, so maybe the mechanical-advantage advantage isn't the biggest issue. Aaron Young The Dalles, OR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
At risk of veering off topic, I wish some clever producer would figure out a Speedial variable leverage setup for road levers. There's so much variation in brake MA, hand strength, and just personal preference, I think it'd be a killer product. Even moreso now with road discs that could generally use more lever pull. I've ridden all sorts of road setups, and almost all of them had too much MA for my liking. Best, joe broach portland, or On Sat, Mar 7, 2015 at 7:53 AM, Aaron Young 1ce...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:19 PM, ted ted.ke...@comcast.net wrote: It's a bit lost in the mists of time, but I think I bought the aero levers to replace older non aero levers, and that they seemed the same (except for being aero). Do you know when levers started having more mechanical advantage? Was that a Mafac versus others differentiator? My understanding is that the more modern aero levers have more mechanical advantage than the older non-aero style due to the position of the pivot in the handle and direction of cable pull. I've used both types and when set up correctly had no complaints about braking, so maybe the mechanical-advantage advantage isn't the biggest issue. Aaron Young The Dalles, OR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
Minor update. This morning I took a little time and got the toe in down to something approaching the amount I typically find works well on other brakes I have set up. Rode up hill and down dale after that. The raid worked just fine. Lever travel is about what I like. No squealing (except one or two modest very low speed chirps). Braking power seemed fine to me. Controlled speed and stopped the bike just fine. One caveat, I don't think I am a particularly demanding brake user. I've got no complaints about how the CR720s and R559s I have used perform. I gather some find those under powered and can't stand em, so as usual YMMV. On Saturday, March 7, 2015 at 7:53:45 AM UTC-8, A. L Young wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 6:19 PM, ted ted@comcast.net javascript: wrote: It's a bit lost in the mists of time, but I think I bought the aero levers to replace older non aero levers, and that they seemed the same (except for being aero). Do you know when levers started having more mechanical advantage? Was that a Mafac versus others differentiator? My understanding is that the more modern aero levers have more mechanical advantage than the older non-aero style due to the position of the pivot in the handle and direction of cable pull. I've used both types and when set up correctly had no complaints about braking, so maybe the mechanical-advantage advantage isn't the biggest issue. Aaron Young The Dalles, OR -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
Thanks. I'm about to execute a M.A.F.A.C. Racer project and I'm noticing the stock brake lever pulls a ton of cable. Modern levers don't pull as much. So if the brakes want you to pull a bunch of cable and you have the pads all the way up and you use levers that don't pull a lot of cable, that's the triple whammy for squishy (but powerful) braking. The math gets kind of gnarly but that's the tendency. I want to have it sorted before I get these posts brazed on. I'm leaning towards using the stock levers -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
If I remember right (all markings have worn off), the levers are Dia-Comp Grand Comp aero. I think they are fairly typical pre brifter aero levers. On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 4:45:43 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote: Thanks for sharing. What brakelevers did you use? On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 4:40:40 PM UTC-8, ted wrote: I was curious about trying out a mafac raid front brake on my AHH (650b) and found a pair for a price I thought wasn't too much. It's still early days yet, but I thought I would offer a few preliminary observations. First and last, these are big brakes. I have seen the reach on these quoted as starting at 66mm. The RBW geometry charts says reach for my bike is 65mm. I have the pad holders slammed to the top of the slot and I think they will be ok, but I really would rather have more room to go up with them. Of course getting braze-on pivots would allow a bit of latitude on the reach. If you want to run 40+mm tires with fenders, and easily get your wheel out without letting out air, a Raid will do that. I extended the slot in the L bracket on my front longboard about 1/8 inch and have it all the way up. That gives reasonable clearance over my soma GR tire and the brake arm barely touches the fender when I release the straddle cable. I would say there is room in there for a 50mm fender, and that that would be better with a tire that size (~42mm). It seems like the leverage is relatively high since any compliance in the system, or significant gap between the pads and the rim, results in a bunch of lever travel. They can squeal really badly if not toed in enough. Jan Heine has said that they stop squealing after a few rainy rides, but I live in the SF bay area (land of drought) so that's not gonna help me much. I have not yet sorted out how much toe in is needed and gotten that and no more dialed in. I suspect I have more toe in than necessary at the moment. I currently have more lever travel than I would like, so I hope I will be able to sort things out with less toe in, but no squealing, and firm up the feel. The old pads that came with my brakes didn't seem very good. The new kool-stop pads from Compass bikes seem like, well Matthauser pads. So not much to complain about there. I expect stopping power will go up a bit now that I have the new pads fitted. If anybody else is interested in doing similar experimenting, a guy on the 650B group (nobody I know) is selling a pair. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
I wouldn't argue against going with components made for each other. I think you'r on solid ground there. I also completely agree about wanting to know what you'r likely to get before having pivots brazed on. That's one reason I was happy to find an old pair of Raids with the stock arches. Much less commitment than paying for the new Compass brakes and dealing with getting custom torch work done. It would be nice if Jan could see his way clear to getting bolt on arches forged. I understand that the development costs are a significant impediment. Perhaps if the brakes sell well, he can start getting arches too so more folks can have access to his new release of this old cult classic. It's a bit lost in the mists of time, but I think I bought the aero levers to replace older non aero levers, and that they seemed the same (except for being aero). Do you know when levers started having more mechanical advantage? Was that a Mafac versus others differentiator? I don't know if I would conclude a lot about the Racers based on the Raids, or vice-versa. The geometry is quite different, though perhaps the ratios (and thus the behavior) are about the same. Decades ago I had a bike with Mafac Racers on it. I eventually replaced them with Dia-Comp or SunTour campi copy side pulls. I don't recall being disappointed with the performance of the side pulls, though I did live in much flatter territory then so ... Have you posted in a prior thread about your Racer project? I am curious how you find them compared to say typical dual pivot side pulls. On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 5:33:52 PM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote: Thanks. I'm about to execute a M.A.F.A.C. Racer project and I'm noticing the stock brake lever pulls a ton of cable. Modern levers don't pull as much. So if the brakes want you to pull a bunch of cable and you have the pads all the way up and you use levers that don't pull a lot of cable, that's the triple whammy for squishy (but powerful) braking. The math gets kind of gnarly but that's the tendency. I want to have it sorted before I get these posts brazed on. I'm leaning towards using the stock levers -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
On 03/06/2015 08:33 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: Thanks. I'm about to execute a M.A.F.A.C. Racer project and I'm noticing the stock brake lever pulls a ton of cable. Modern levers don't pull as much. So if the brakes want you to pull a bunch of cable and you have the pads all the way up and you use levers that don't pull a lot of cable, that's the triple whammy for squishy (but powerful) braking. The math gets kind of gnarly but that's the tendency. I want to have it sorted before I get these posts brazed on. I'm leaning towards using the stock levers I had Mafac levers on my first tandem, which also had Mafac brakes. The lever effort for emergency braking was so high squeezing that double-drilled lever would make my eyes bulge make the veins on my neck stand out. I have bolt-on Mafac Raids on my Kogswell, operated by Shimano aero brake levers and the combination is just perfect. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: mafac raid brake
Thanks for sharing. What brakelevers did you use? On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 4:40:40 PM UTC-8, ted wrote: I was curious about trying out a mafac raid front brake on my AHH (650b) and found a pair for a price I thought wasn't too much. It's still early days yet, but I thought I would offer a few preliminary observations. First and last, these are big brakes. I have seen the reach on these quoted as starting at 66mm. The RBW geometry charts says reach for my bike is 65mm. I have the pad holders slammed to the top of the slot and I think they will be ok, but I really would rather have more room to go up with them. Of course getting braze-on pivots would allow a bit of latitude on the reach. If you want to run 40+mm tires with fenders, and easily get your wheel out without letting out air, a Raid will do that. I extended the slot in the L bracket on my front longboard about 1/8 inch and have it all the way up. That gives reasonable clearance over my soma GR tire and the brake arm barely touches the fender when I release the straddle cable. I would say there is room in there for a 50mm fender, and that that would be better with a tire that size (~42mm). It seems like the leverage is relatively high since any compliance in the system, or significant gap between the pads and the rim, results in a bunch of lever travel. They can squeal really badly if not toed in enough. Jan Heine has said that they stop squealing after a few rainy rides, but I live in the SF bay area (land of drought) so that's not gonna help me much. I have not yet sorted out how much toe in is needed and gotten that and no more dialed in. I suspect I have more toe in than necessary at the moment. I currently have more lever travel than I would like, so I hope I will be able to sort things out with less toe in, but no squealing, and firm up the feel. The old pads that came with my brakes didn't seem very good. The new kool-stop pads from Compass bikes seem like, well Matthauser pads. So not much to complain about there. I expect stopping power will go up a bit now that I have the new pads fitted. If anybody else is interested in doing similar experimenting, a guy on the 650B group (nobody I know) is selling a pair. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
