Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Jim Whorton]

Great question and thread.  I've been wondering the same thing.  While I 
appreciate Riv's insistence on keeping stuff like frame weights and tube 
specs in the background, I have wondered what kind of difference I'd feel 
between the 59cm Clem H that I have now and an Atlantis.  We had a great 
Riv dealer here in Rochester for a while, but Yellow Haus has closed, 
unfortunately, so a test ride is unlikely.

Like Joe and Jason, I've found the Clem rides really nicely with a load.

Jim in Rochester, NY


On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 10:44:35 PM UTC-4 max.c@gmail.com wrote:

> Haha, that got a laugh out of me! I'm saving as we speak...
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:21:16 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Money buys lugs and butted tubing, baby. Buy up! 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:18:17 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> If there is one thing you can count on this group for, it's the up-sell. 
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 6:10 PM max.c@gmail.com  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think 
 (so far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my 
 mid 80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, 
 which is what I think I'm after.

 On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to 
> carry a load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was 
> loaded 
> down for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more 
> of a lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.  
>
> I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option 
> in terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 
> 45cm 
> stays).  That could have a lot to do with it. 
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike 
>> to do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an 
>> unique 
>> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
>> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which 
>> isn't 
>> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry 
>> lots 
>> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
>> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
>> opinion.  
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget 
>>> "cruiser" addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of 
>>> sins (quoting St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a 
>>> frame 
>>> that didn't feel dead.
>>>
>>> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) 
>>> Riv frames?
>>>
>>> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not 
>>> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike 
 through and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of 
 ride 
 ...

>>> -- 
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>> .
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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[max.c....@gmail.com]

Haha, that got a laugh out of me! I'm saving as we speak...

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 9:21:16 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Money buys lugs and butted tubing, baby. Buy up! 
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:18:17 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> If there is one thing you can count on this group for, it's the up-sell. 
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 6:10 PM max.c@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think 
>>> (so far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my 
>>> mid 80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, 
>>> which is what I think I'm after.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to 
 carry a load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was 
 loaded 
 down for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more 
 of a lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.  

 I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option 
 in terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm 
 stays).  That could have a lot to do with it. 

 On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike 
> to do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique 
> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which 
> isn't 
> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry 
> lots 
> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
> opinion.  
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" 
>> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins 
>> (quoting 
>> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't 
>> feel 
>> dead.
>>
>> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) 
>> Riv frames?
>>
>> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not 
>> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through 
>>> and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>>>
>> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
 -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Joe Bernard]

Money buys lugs and butted tubing, baby. Buy up! 



On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:18:17 PM UTC-7 Jason Fuller wrote:

> If there is one thing you can count on this group for, it's the up-sell. 
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 6:10 PM max.c@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think (so 
>> far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my mid 
>> 80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, which 
>> is what I think I'm after.
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry 
>>> a load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down 
>>> for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a 
>>> lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.  
>>>
>>> I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in 
>>> terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm 
>>> stays).  That could have a lot to do with it. 
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
 It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike 
 to do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique 
 ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
 kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't 
 going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry 
 lots 
 of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
 scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
 opinion.  



 On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" 
> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins 
> (quoting 
> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't 
> feel 
> dead.
>
> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) 
> Riv frames?
>
> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not 
> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  
> wrote:
>
>> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through 
>> and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>>
> -- 
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 .

>>> -- 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d2769324-1907-4354-b6d1-8cf7ae516d9an%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Jason Fuller]

If there is one thing you can count on this group for, it's the up-sell.

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 6:10 PM max.c@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think (so
> far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my mid
> 80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, which
> is what I think I'm after.
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry
>> a load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down
>> for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a
>> lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.
>>
>> I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in
>> terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm
>> stays).  That could have a lot to do with it.
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to
>>> do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique
>>> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it
>>> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't
>>> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots
>>> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the
>>> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my
>>> opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser"
 addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting
 St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel
 dead.

 Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?)
 Riv frames?

 Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not
 present itself as 'dead'" Moore



 On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller 
 wrote:

> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through
> and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>
 --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/cE7vIVSOK6c/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3b2b29ef-6690-458e-b68a-7c45d2478025n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[max.c....@gmail.com]

Thanks all for weighing in -- it's been helpful! It has made me think (so 
far) that the Clem would give me more of what I currently have with my mid 
80s Schwinn Cimarron and the Atlantis would give me a new experience, which 
is what I think I'm after.

On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 6:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry a 
> load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down 
> for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a 
> lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.  
>
> I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in 
> terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm 
> stays).  That could have a lot to do with it. 
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to 
>> do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique 
>> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
>> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't 
>> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots 
>> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
>> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
>> opinion.  
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" 
>>> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting 
>>> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel 
>>> dead.
>>>
>>> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv 
>>> frames?
>>>
>>> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not 
>>> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>>
 ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through 
 and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...

>>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/cE7vIVSOK6c/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3b2b29ef-6690-458e-b68a-7c45d2478025n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Jason Fuller]

That's a good point, Joe - I think the Clem's tubing is "tuned" to carry a
load. Thinking more about it, the bike rode best when it was loaded down
for me.  I imagine this is true of the Atlantis too but perhaps more of a
lightweight camp gear load, not heavy groceries load.

I was also on the 45cm H model, which is the stiffest possible option in
terms of triangulation (tight front triangle, and relatively short 45cm
stays).  That could have a lot to do with it.

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:16 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to
> do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique
> ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it
> kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't
> going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots
> of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the
> scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my
> opinion.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser"
>> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting
>> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel
>> dead.
>>
>> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv
>> frames?
>>
>> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not
>> present itself as 'dead'" Moore
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>>
>>> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through and
>>> through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Joe Bernard]

It's definitely different, you just have to know what you want a bike to 
do. I've owned several Clems (both styles) and they all have an unique 
ability to gain momentum and keep it..like once you get up to speed it 
kinda wants to stay there. But it's a relatively heavy cruiser which isn't 
going to win any races, especially up hill. Its trick is it will carry lots 
of stuff all day and leave you alone to sit up and look around at the 
scenery. A great bike for the things it's supposed to be great at, in my 
opinion.  



On Sunday, June 27, 2021 at 4:04:53 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser" 
> addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting 
> St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel 
> dead.
>
> Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv 
> frames?
>
> Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not present 
> itself as 'dead'" Moore
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:
>
>> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through and 
>> through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Patrick Moore]

This interests me, since I've thought of a Clem as a budget "cruiser"
addition to my bike wardrobe. "Cruiser" covers a multitude of sins (quoting
St Paul out of context), but all equal, I'd prefer a frame that didn't feel
dead.

Others: Do you find the Clem "non-lively" compared to other (which?) Riv
frames?

Patrick "OTOH, my perfectly acceptable 2012 Monocog frame does not present
itself as 'dead'" Moore



On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 4:56 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> ...  it cannot be overstated that the Clem is a utility bike through and
> through:  the tubing is heavy and offers no liveliness of ride ...
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[Jason Fuller]

Similar to others, I am in-between Clem sizes and therefore sold mine 
largely just due to poor fit, but also it cannot be overstated that the 
Clem is a utility bike through and through:  the tubing is heavy and offers 
no liveliness of ride, but it will last a lifetime of grocery store runs 
and doing whatever you ask of it, as long as you don't ask it to be 
sporty.  

If you want ride quality, get the Atlantis for sure. Even though it's a 
stout bike, the Atlantis was designed with ride quality much higher up the 
priority list than the Clem IMO. 

On Thursday, 24 June 2021 at 11:54:05 UTC-7 E. Ricky Creek wrote:

> It is time for me to fess up as to how many Riv's were (until recently) in 
> my garage: 7. I ride a Waterford Atlantis, a Waterford Hillborne (rare 
> canti/double TT 56cm), a Simpleone, and I recently sold a Gomez and a Clem 
> H. My wife rides a Cheviot and an Appaloosa (both are in my size range). I 
> rode the Clem H for 5-6 years and every time I rode it I thought "I just 
> don't love this bike, but it is the bike I ride the most (commuter)." I 
> ride a 58cm traditionally sized bike and found the 52 Clem H just never fit 
> right (too small). The 60cm Yves Gomez was too big and never felt 
> comfortable. Much like you my dream bike (since 2004) was the Atlantis. 
> I've had mine for 4 years. If I only could keep one bike, it would be the 
> Atlantis. I am not as fond of the long chainstays as others here are, but I 
> have ridden them and didn't think they are bad, but I prefer the ride of my 
> Hillborne and Atlantis (and sometimes when my knees are feeling okay the 
> Simpleone). If you are into bikes and dream of different bikes and spent 
> crazy amounts of time looking at bikes (and parts!), thinking that X bike 
> will complete your bike quest, then buying your dream bike now may not 
> truly satisfy your hunger. I bought, rode, sold, traded, gave away many 
> bikes on my journey to my current stable, which is perfect for me. But if 
> I'd started way back in 2003 (when I got into riding as an "adult") with 
> this bunch of bikes I likely wouldn't feel the way about them as I do now. 
> I don't know what the answer is for you, nor does anyone, really, but you 
> can't go wrong with any bike that fits you and you enjoy riding. Plus if 
> you score a Clem on this list, it will still be worth what you paid in a 
> year (maybe more?!), and folks on this list are always up for a "new" bike. 
>
> That was long winded and didn't answer your question. The Clem H rode slow 
> and fat for me (as I am slow and fat), and it didn't fit me right because 
> of the huge gap between sizes. The Atlantis (original style) rides much 
> more like a traditional touring bike (stable, easy handling), which I 
> prefer. I rode a LHT for years and the Atlantis rides more similar, though 
> much better, that that. The bikes were set up with upright bars (though the 
> Atlantis now has wide drops, which I prefer). 
>
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:09:41 PM UTC-5 dougP wrote:
>
>> Max:
>>
>> I have a 58 cm 2003 Atlantis that has seen extensive use in all the 
>> categories Jim mentioned and agree with his evaluations.  I have fitted 50 
>> mm tires to it but chosen to run 40 mm as my optimal size.  The bike is 
>> amazingly versatile & came with drop bars which were fine for years until 
>> the penny dropped & I went upright for even more comfort.  I've used 
>> several kinds of racks on it, both for light around town use & fully loaded 
>> touring.  It handles everything with style.  
>>
>> I've never ridden a Clem so obviously I'm highly biased in this but if 
>> the Atlantis is your dream bike, go for it.  A frequent comment from list 
>> members who've sold an Atlantis is "I wish I hadn't done that".  
>>
>> Used ones pop up here from time to time, usually in the common frame 
>> sizes.  While there is nothing like a brand new bike (I still remember 
>> pulling mine out of the shipping box), a used Atlantis is still a great 
>> bike.  It's not as if steel frames wear out.  Besides, if the Atlantis is 
>> your dream bike & you pass on it, you will always wonder "...what if?...".  
>>
>> dougP
>>
>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 10:30:09 AM UTC-7 max.c@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback Jimmy!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:37:29 AM UTC-5 Jimmy Warren wrote:
>>>

 I’m an Atlantis owner and a family member of a Clem owner, which I have 
 ridden. Disclaimer: that Clem is 2 cm above my ideal size.

 If it were me, I’d save up and get an Atlantis, especially if 
 pre-owned. A used one probably has less tire room, but still has a lot of 
 tire room, and the newest ones, according to the Riv site fit 2.4”, which 
 I 
 think matches the Clem. And it rides better, more efficient. It’s all 
 around a more versatile bike if you’re looking for a do-all with 
 road-riding in mind as well as trails.

 And even if you find one of 

Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[E. Ricky Creek]

It is time for me to fess up as to how many Riv's were (until recently) in 
my garage: 7. I ride a Waterford Atlantis, a Waterford Hillborne (rare 
canti/double TT 56cm), a Simpleone, and I recently sold a Gomez and a Clem 
H. My wife rides a Cheviot and an Appaloosa (both are in my size range). I 
rode the Clem H for 5-6 years and every time I rode it I thought "I just 
don't love this bike, but it is the bike I ride the most (commuter)." I 
ride a 58cm traditionally sized bike and found the 52 Clem H just never fit 
right (too small). The 60cm Yves Gomez was too big and never felt 
comfortable. Much like you my dream bike (since 2004) was the Atlantis. 
I've had mine for 4 years. If I only could keep one bike, it would be the 
Atlantis. I am not as fond of the long chainstays as others here are, but I 
have ridden them and didn't think they are bad, but I prefer the ride of my 
Hillborne and Atlantis (and sometimes when my knees are feeling okay the 
Simpleone). If you are into bikes and dream of different bikes and spent 
crazy amounts of time looking at bikes (and parts!), thinking that X bike 
will complete your bike quest, then buying your dream bike now may not 
truly satisfy your hunger. I bought, rode, sold, traded, gave away many 
bikes on my journey to my current stable, which is perfect for me. But if 
I'd started way back in 2003 (when I got into riding as an "adult") with 
this bunch of bikes I likely wouldn't feel the way about them as I do now. 
I don't know what the answer is for you, nor does anyone, really, but you 
can't go wrong with any bike that fits you and you enjoy riding. Plus if 
you score a Clem on this list, it will still be worth what you paid in a 
year (maybe more?!), and folks on this list are always up for a "new" bike. 

That was long winded and didn't answer your question. The Clem H rode slow 
and fat for me (as I am slow and fat), and it didn't fit me right because 
of the huge gap between sizes. The Atlantis (original style) rides much 
more like a traditional touring bike (stable, easy handling), which I 
prefer. I rode a LHT for years and the Atlantis rides more similar, though 
much better, that that. The bikes were set up with upright bars (though the 
Atlantis now has wide drops, which I prefer). 

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 1:09:41 PM UTC-5 dougP wrote:

> Max:
>
> I have a 58 cm 2003 Atlantis that has seen extensive use in all the 
> categories Jim mentioned and agree with his evaluations.  I have fitted 50 
> mm tires to it but chosen to run 40 mm as my optimal size.  The bike is 
> amazingly versatile & came with drop bars which were fine for years until 
> the penny dropped & I went upright for even more comfort.  I've used 
> several kinds of racks on it, both for light around town use & fully loaded 
> touring.  It handles everything with style.  
>
> I've never ridden a Clem so obviously I'm highly biased in this but if the 
> Atlantis is your dream bike, go for it.  A frequent comment from list 
> members who've sold an Atlantis is "I wish I hadn't done that".  
>
> Used ones pop up here from time to time, usually in the common frame 
> sizes.  While there is nothing like a brand new bike (I still remember 
> pulling mine out of the shipping box), a used Atlantis is still a great 
> bike.  It's not as if steel frames wear out.  Besides, if the Atlantis is 
> your dream bike & you pass on it, you will always wonder "...what if?...".  
>
> dougP
>
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 10:30:09 AM UTC-7 max.c@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the feedback Jimmy!
>>
>> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:37:29 AM UTC-5 Jimmy Warren wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I’m an Atlantis owner and a family member of a Clem owner, which I have 
>>> ridden. Disclaimer: that Clem is 2 cm above my ideal size.
>>>
>>> If it were me, I’d save up and get an Atlantis, especially if pre-owned. 
>>> A used one probably has less tire room, but still has a lot of tire room, 
>>> and the newest ones, according to the Riv site fit 2.4”, which I think 
>>> matches the Clem. And it rides better, more efficient. It’s all around a 
>>> more versatile bike if you’re looking for a do-all with road-riding in mind 
>>> as well as trails.
>>>
>>> And even if you find one of the oldest models (mine’s generation 1 from 
>>> 2000) the tire clearance will still be close to 2”. And the tire room only 
>>> got better as the model evolved from 2000 to now.
>>>
>>> I’ve used my Atlantis for every kind of riding I enjoy (which does not 
>>> include steep downhill fast rocky mountain biking!)
>>>
>>> Touring - amazing
>>> Dirt road bike packing - amazing
>>> Commuting - amazing
>>> Cross country mountain biking and dirt climbing - amazing
>>> Drop bar road riding - very good
>>>
>>> - Jimmy W.
>>>
>>> On Jun 24, 2021, at 7:33 AM, max.c@gmail.com  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all, I am a wannabe Riv owner. One day, when the mood of my wife and 
>>> bank account align...at least that's my hope. 
>>>
>>> I browse a 

Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[dougP]

Max:

I have a 58 cm 2003 Atlantis that has seen extensive use in all the 
categories Jim mentioned and agree with his evaluations.  I have fitted 50 
mm tires to it but chosen to run 40 mm as my optimal size.  The bike is 
amazingly versatile & came with drop bars which were fine for years until 
the penny dropped & I went upright for even more comfort.  I've used 
several kinds of racks on it, both for light around town use & fully loaded 
touring.  It handles everything with style.  

I've never ridden a Clem so obviously I'm highly biased in this but if the 
Atlantis is your dream bike, go for it.  A frequent comment from list 
members who've sold an Atlantis is "I wish I hadn't done that".  

Used ones pop up here from time to time, usually in the common frame 
sizes.  While there is nothing like a brand new bike (I still remember 
pulling mine out of the shipping box), a used Atlantis is still a great 
bike.  It's not as if steel frames wear out.  Besides, if the Atlantis is 
your dream bike & you pass on it, you will always wonder "...what if?...".  

dougP

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 10:30:09 AM UTC-7 max.c@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback Jimmy!
>
> On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:37:29 AM UTC-5 Jimmy Warren wrote:
>
>>
>> I’m an Atlantis owner and a family member of a Clem owner, which I have 
>> ridden. Disclaimer: that Clem is 2 cm above my ideal size.
>>
>> If it were me, I’d save up and get an Atlantis, especially if pre-owned. 
>> A used one probably has less tire room, but still has a lot of tire room, 
>> and the newest ones, according to the Riv site fit 2.4”, which I think 
>> matches the Clem. And it rides better, more efficient. It’s all around a 
>> more versatile bike if you’re looking for a do-all with road-riding in mind 
>> as well as trails.
>>
>> And even if you find one of the oldest models (mine’s generation 1 from 
>> 2000) the tire clearance will still be close to 2”. And the tire room only 
>> got better as the model evolved from 2000 to now.
>>
>> I’ve used my Atlantis for every kind of riding I enjoy (which does not 
>> include steep downhill fast rocky mountain biking!)
>>
>> Touring - amazing
>> Dirt road bike packing - amazing
>> Commuting - amazing
>> Cross country mountain biking and dirt climbing - amazing
>> Drop bar road riding - very good
>>
>> - Jimmy W.
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2021, at 7:33 AM, max.c@gmail.com  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hey all, I am a wannabe Riv owner. One day, when the mood of my wife and 
>> bank account align...at least that's my hope. 
>>
>> I browse a lot of used listings and sometimes will see a deal pop up that 
>> I'm interested in, but feel like I don't have enough info to confidently 
>> purchase. Looking for some insight especially from those who have ridden 
>> multiple Riv models.
>>
>> I have a special nostalgia for the Rivendell Atlantis -- the color, the 
>> geometry; it just seems like my dream bike and I don't have a 
>> justification. The price is steep, though. I have been curious what the 
>> difference in ride quality is when compared with the Clem H, as that's more 
>> in my price range and I see used ones come up for sale much more 
>> frequently. Obviously it's a different look and I'm missing lugs, etc, but 
>> it does have those crazy long stays. What's the difference in ride quality? 
>> Especially if I'm riding upright.
>>
>> A couple of notes: I live in very flat Dallas, I primarily use my bike as 
>> a commuter (towing my HappiSack) with a 10 mile radius but would also like 
>> to do some light touring. My preferred set up is riding upright.
>>
>> If anyone else would care to weigh in with a comparison between the ride 
>> quality of the Atlantis and other Riv models, I'd be interested in those 
>> too! Just trying to arm myself with information in a market where I often 
>> am shopping online and unable to try before I buy.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Max
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e4484b96-0f19-4394-8d74-9ca38da8f660n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[max.c....@gmail.com]

Thanks for the feedback Jimmy!

On Thursday, June 24, 2021 at 11:37:29 AM UTC-5 Jimmy Warren wrote:

>
> I’m an Atlantis owner and a family member of a Clem owner, which I have 
> ridden. Disclaimer: that Clem is 2 cm above my ideal size.
>
> If it were me, I’d save up and get an Atlantis, especially if pre-owned. A 
> used one probably has less tire room, but still has a lot of tire room, and 
> the newest ones, according to the Riv site fit 2.4”, which I think matches 
> the Clem. And it rides better, more efficient. It’s all around a more 
> versatile bike if you’re looking for a do-all with road-riding in mind as 
> well as trails.
>
> And even if you find one of the oldest models (mine’s generation 1 from 
> 2000) the tire clearance will still be close to 2”. And the tire room only 
> got better as the model evolved from 2000 to now.
>
> I’ve used my Atlantis for every kind of riding I enjoy (which does not 
> include steep downhill fast rocky mountain biking!)
>
> Touring - amazing
> Dirt road bike packing - amazing
> Commuting - amazing
> Cross country mountain biking and dirt climbing - amazing
> Drop bar road riding - very good
>
> - Jimmy W.
>
> On Jun 24, 2021, at 7:33 AM, max.c@gmail.com  
> wrote:
>
> Hey all, I am a wannabe Riv owner. One day, when the mood of my wife and 
> bank account align...at least that's my hope. 
>
> I browse a lot of used listings and sometimes will see a deal pop up that 
> I'm interested in, but feel like I don't have enough info to confidently 
> purchase. Looking for some insight especially from those who have ridden 
> multiple Riv models.
>
> I have a special nostalgia for the Rivendell Atlantis -- the color, the 
> geometry; it just seems like my dream bike and I don't have a 
> justification. The price is steep, though. I have been curious what the 
> difference in ride quality is when compared with the Clem H, as that's more 
> in my price range and I see used ones come up for sale much more 
> frequently. Obviously it's a different look and I'm missing lugs, etc, but 
> it does have those crazy long stays. What's the difference in ride quality? 
> Especially if I'm riding upright.
>
> A couple of notes: I live in very flat Dallas, I primarily use my bike as 
> a commuter (towing my HappiSack) with a 10 mile radius but would also like 
> to do some light touring. My preferred set up is riding upright.
>
> If anyone else would care to weigh in with a comparison between the ride 
> quality of the Atlantis and other Riv models, I'd be interested in those 
> too! Just trying to arm myself with information in a market where I often 
> am shopping online and unable to try before I buy.
>
> Thanks,
> Max
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e4484b96-0f19-4394-8d74-9ca38da8f660n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[James Warren]

I’m an Atlantis owner and a family member of a Clem owner, which I have ridden. 
Disclaimer: that Clem is 2 cm above my ideal size.

If it were me, I’d save up and get an Atlantis, especially if pre-owned. A used 
one probably has less tire room, but still has a lot of tire room, and the 
newest ones, according to the Riv site fit 2.4”, which I think matches the 
Clem. And it rides better, more efficient. It’s all around a more versatile 
bike if you’re looking for a do-all with road-riding in mind as well as trails.

And even if you find one of the oldest models (mine’s generation 1 from 2000) 
the tire clearance will still be close to 2”. And the tire room only got better 
as the model evolved from 2000 to now.

I’ve used my Atlantis for every kind of riding I enjoy (which does not include 
steep downhill fast rocky mountain biking!)

Touring - amazing
Dirt road bike packing - amazing
Commuting - amazing
Cross country mountain biking and dirt climbing - amazing
Drop bar road riding - very good

- Jimmy W.

> On Jun 24, 2021, at 7:33 AM, max.c@gmail.com  
> wrote:
> 
> Hey all, I am a wannabe Riv owner. One day, when the mood of my wife and bank 
> account align...at least that's my hope. 
> 
> I browse a lot of used listings and sometimes will see a deal pop up that I'm 
> interested in, but feel like I don't have enough info to confidently 
> purchase. Looking for some insight especially from those who have ridden 
> multiple Riv models.
> 
> I have a special nostalgia for the Rivendell Atlantis -- the color, the 
> geometry; it just seems like my dream bike and I don't have a justification. 
> The price is steep, though. I have been curious what the difference in ride 
> quality is when compared with the Clem H, as that's more in my price range 
> and I see used ones come up for sale much more frequently. Obviously it's a 
> different look and I'm missing lugs, etc, but it does have those crazy long 
> stays. What's the difference in ride quality? Especially if I'm riding 
> upright.
> 
> A couple of notes: I live in very flat Dallas, I primarily use my bike as a 
> commuter (towing my HappiSack) with a 10 mile radius but would also like to 
> do some light touring. My preferred set up is riding upright.
> 
> If anyone else would care to weigh in with a comparison between the ride 
> quality of the Atlantis and other Riv models, I'd be interested in those too! 
> Just trying to arm myself with information in a market where I often am 
> shopping online and unable to try before I buy.
> 
> Thanks,
> Max
> 
> -- 
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
> .
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/e4484b96-0f19-4394-8d74-9ca38da8f660n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> .

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[RBW] Ride Quality Difference between the Atlantis and Clem H?

[max.c....@gmail.com]

Hey all, I am a wannabe Riv owner. One day, when the mood of my wife and 
bank account align...at least that's my hope. 

I browse a lot of used listings and sometimes will see a deal pop up that 
I'm interested in, but feel like I don't have enough info to confidently 
purchase. Looking for some insight especially from those who have ridden 
multiple Riv models.

I have a special nostalgia for the Rivendell Atlantis -- the color, the 
geometry; it just seems like my dream bike and I don't have a 
justification. The price is steep, though. I have been curious what the 
difference in ride quality is when compared with the Clem H, as that's more 
in my price range and I see used ones come up for sale much more 
frequently. Obviously it's a different look and I'm missing lugs, etc, but 
it does have those crazy long stays. What's the difference in ride quality? 
Especially if I'm riding upright.

A couple of notes: I live in very flat Dallas, I primarily use my bike as a 
commuter (towing my HappiSack) with a 10 mile radius but would also like to 
do some light touring. My preferred set up is riding upright.

If anyone else would care to weigh in with a comparison between the ride 
quality of the Atlantis and other Riv models, I'd be interested in those 
too! Just trying to arm myself with information in a market where I often 
am shopping online and unable to try before I buy.

Thanks,
Max

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