Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 8:16 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Nice commuter under 25 lb equipped but not laden. Mine is probably under 23 lb with rack but no bag. How does this work? First of all, why are you weighing a commuting bike without bags, when every single time you commute on it, you will use bags? It seems to me, to make meaningful comparisons, we should weigh our bikes as ridden. That is, a meaningful weight of a commuter bike is the weight of the bike with everything you normally have on your commuter bike when you take out the things you take out at work or when you get home (your laptop, any clothes you change into at work, your lunch, and so forth). I just weighed my Atlantis, without water bottles but otherwise as ridden. It weighs 35.5 pounds. I don't understand how I could possibly have something that I could call a commute bike that weighed 23 pounds. Commute bikes, by their very nature, have fenders, lights and some kind of bag or basket. Every time I get on the bike, I carry a lock, a spare tube, a few tools, a patch kit. So my bike weighs almost half again as much as Patrick's rule. I'm ten pounds over. How am I supposed to put this bike on a diet, assuming I want to? Let's say I'm at my Spanish class and it's time to come home. It's ten o'clock at night, it's 40 degrees, it's dark, it's raining. I walk out of class carrying my notebook, dictionary and purse, already wearing my rain clothes. I'm about to load up my 23-pound bike and ride home. What does that 23 pound bike look like? How is it 12.5 pounds less than my actual 35.5 pound bike? -- -- Anne Paulson My hovercraft is full of eels -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 1:33 PM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 8:16 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Nice commuter under 25 lb equipped but not laden. Mine is probably under 23 lb with rack but no bag. How does this work? First of all, why are you weighing a commuting bike without bags, when every single time you commute on it, you will use bags? It seems to me, to make meaningful comparisons, we should weigh our bikes as ridden. That is, a meaningful weight of a commuter bike is the weight of the bike with everything you normally have on your commuter bike when you take out the things you take out at work or when you get home (your laptop, any clothes you change into at work, your lunch, and so forth). Sure, but I am not always meaningful. Seriously, this commuter is often ridden sans bags, so ... Add the pair of bags -- small Ortliebs -- and you are probably talking about another 3 1/2 lbs. Load -- anyone's guess, of course. The real point is that there is a noticeable difference between this bike and the Motobecane which is, similarly weighed, at least 5 lb heavier. Commuter is misleading since I really don't commute any more; this is the fun bike I ride when I want to, say, stop at the PO or buy a few things at the grocery. I just weighed my Atlantis, without water bottles but otherwise as ridden. It weighs 35.5 pounds. I don't understand how I could possibly have something that I could call a commute bike that weighed 23 pounds. Commute bikes, by their very nature, have fenders, lights and some kind of bag or basket. Every time I get on the bike, I carry a lock, a spare tube, a few tools, a patch kit. So my bike weighs almost half again as much as Patrick's rule. I'm ten pounds over. How am I supposed to put this bike on a diet, assuming I want to? Don't try, with an Atlantis. My so called commuter is this: https://picasaweb.google.com/BERTIN753/BIKESMISCELLANEA#5563676048065808626 As pictured, 23 lb give or take an ounce or two. Actually, if Chauncey ever gets back to me, the Riv ought to soon have a nice, ss, custom mini rear rack suitable for 20 lb max or so to replace the Fly. Let's say I'm at my Spanish class and it's time to come home. It's ten o'clock at night, it's 40 degrees, it's dark, it's raining. I walk out of class carrying my notebook, dictionary and purse, already wearing my rain clothes. I'm about to load up my 23-pound bike and ride home. What does that 23 pound bike look like? How is it 12.5 pounds less than my actual 35.5 pound bike? Magic. See above. Really, though, it was my commuter back when I commuted 30 miles rt (I often took the bus 1/4 way). Rain or shine (well, not too much rain here), shine or dark for sure. I guess my usual commute load, when I commuted, was generally sub 10 lb with bag: lunch, a few papers, outer layer and gloves in the evenings, perhaps a pair of shoes, tho' I left a large wardrobe at work. My Fargo is heavier than your Atlantis, at least if I add two larger Ortliebs, but then the wheels are massively heavy. I use that for errands, too, and it's fun, but it's a different ride altogether, and that is really the point about all this claptrap about weight. -- -- Anne Paulson My hovercraft is full of eels -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 12:33 -0700, Anne Paulson wrote: I don't understand how I could possibly have something that I could call a commute bike that weighed 23 pounds. Commute bikes, by their very nature, have fenders, lights and some kind of bag or basket. You might very well think so, but during my many commuting years I often saw people on lightweight racing bikes with enormous backpacks carrying their gear. I'll bet when they weighed their bikes they didn't weigh the backpack...! No fenders, no lights, narrow tires on famously beat to crap potholed and cracked downtown Washington DC streets. Certainly nothing I'd ever choose to do. And to top it all off, that ungainly, unbalanced and undoubtedly uncomfortable giant backpack! But they sure had light bikes. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: You might very well think so, but during my many commuting years I often saw people on lightweight racing bikes with enormous backpacks carrying their gear. I'll bet when they weighed their bikes they didn't weigh the backpack...! Ah yes, the well-known theorem that things weigh less when carried than when attached to your bike. A corollary is the equally well-known theorem that food you don't pay for has no calories. -- -- Anne Paulson My hovercraft is full of eels -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
I should clarify something here: when I pronounce that a commuter ought to weigh no more than 25 lb, I am speaking solely for myself and speaking of my own admittedly idiosyncratic preferences. I also intend the weight to measure the bike ready to ride but unladen, with bags if you prefer but without any contents. That has been my practice (tho' I admit having commuted on much heavier bikes dedicated to commuting), but it is hardly a general rule. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
On Fri, Mar 18, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 12:33 -0700, Anne Paulson wrote: I don't understand how I could possibly have something that I could call a commute bike that weighed 23 pounds. Commute bikes, by their very nature, have fenders, lights and some kind of bag or basket. My 62cm 650b Boulder bicycle is approx. 24.5 pounds with Zefal frame pump and rack and fenders and front and rear generator lighting. I could likely shave off another pound by shortening the excess steerer, adding a lighter saddle lighter cranks, bb, inner tubes, pedals, and brake levers. That would get it very close to the 23 pounds and the bicycle would still likely be a reliable commuter that could be used on road and gravel. Running this as a 700c frame with 30mm tires would likely get it below 23 pounds with little impact on durability, weather worthiness, and long distance comfort. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
OK, now that we have dispensed with helmets, allow me to raise another controversial topic. This is not like, when am I too heavy, which is easy right now. I have 4 bikes, well 6 really, but we wont go into those details. All four of them are around 62 cm and get ridden regularly - a 1988 classic stage racing frame, weighing around 22 lbs; a Rambouillet, outfitted with White/ Open Pro wheels, a White dbl crank, Honjo fenders, a Mark's Rack, and light tires also weighing about 22 lbs.; a 1984 Trek (Reynolds 531 standard gauge tubing) with Shimano 9 speed cranks and shifters, SKS Fenders, Passella 32 mm T Guards and coming in around 25 lbs; and An Ebisu All Purpose, with front and real steel racks, steel fenders, MA 40 Rims, triple DaVinci Cranks, and 38 mm Avocet Cross tires that weighs in at a hefty 30 lbs. I live in Vermont, which has lots of rolling hills and some significant climbs. Do you think the 5 lbs alone, between the Trek and Ebisu is enough to effect the performance? What about the 3 lb difference between the Rambouillet and the Trek? Or, are the perceived differences imaginary? michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
I believe there is more to than just weight. 3 lbs even 5 lbs isn't noticeable to most people. Notice the word most as there is always someone saying they can tell the difference when a water bottle filled. Anyway I thing tires, geometry, fit, and such will make a bike feel fast or slow more than the 5 lbs. To contradict myself.. Yes there is a performance penalty for any and all weight though slight. Kelly Sent from my iPhone On Mar 17, 2011, at 7:54 PM, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: OK, now that we have dispensed with helmets, allow me to raise another controversial topic. This is not like, when am I too heavy, which is easy right now. I have 4 bikes, well 6 really, but we wont go into those details. All four of them are around 62 cm and get ridden regularly - a 1988 classic stage racing frame, weighing around 22 lbs; a Rambouillet, outfitted with White/ Open Pro wheels, a White dbl crank, Honjo fenders, a Mark's Rack, and light tires also weighing about 22 lbs.; a 1984 Trek (Reynolds 531 standard gauge tubing) with Shimano 9 speed cranks and shifters, SKS Fenders, Passella 32 mm T Guards and coming in around 25 lbs; and An Ebisu All Purpose, with front and real steel racks, steel fenders, MA 40 Rims, triple DaVinci Cranks, and 38 mm Avocet Cross tires that weighs in at a hefty 30 lbs. I live in Vermont, which has lots of rolling hills and some significant climbs. Do you think the 5 lbs alone, between the Trek and Ebisu is enough to effect the performance? What about the 3 lb difference between the Rambouillet and the Trek? Or, are the perceived differences imaginary? michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
My Seven Alaris is 18 lbs and my Romulus is 27 lbs. I notice a huge difference, but not just in the weight. On Seven's customization scale, it's a 10 on drive chain rigidity and weight to performance so the frame is significantly heavier than a standard quality titanium frame. It's also a model down from the Axiom so the tubes are straight gauge making it heavier all things being equal. But it's perfect for me as I'm 190 lbs and not very light on my bikes. My favorite quality is that it has almost the rigidity and acceleration of a track bike so I can mash on it with no worries, and it is also unfairly comfortable (somehow, have no idea why) on the distance rides — did a 200K on it last year with no pain — and it's just more fun to ride fast than the Romulus. However, it's much more of a pain to commute with than the Romulus and of course I can't put racks and panniers on the Seven. There's also that steel feel which is no worse or better than ti, but is so familiar to me I appreciate just being on it. Not to mention the paint. I love Riv paint. And it gets all of the compliments. The Seven doesn't get any from non-cyclists. It's also about where the weight is of course, the stuff you have to move around like tires (which I notice more than anything), wheels (rims), cranks, pedals, shoes, etc. I think it's why I tinker so uncontrollably. Curtis On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 9:48 PM, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: My bikes range from 23.5 to 29 lbs (as built up with everything attached but no bottles and empty bags.) The difference in weight isn't a material factor in my avg pace over the same course. I do use the bikes for different routes though. The bike which feels fastest is not the lightest, either. Let me put it this way. If you lost 5 lbs, how would that effect your performance? From: MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com To: RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, March 17, 2011 7:54:52 PM Subject: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy? Do you think the 5 lbs alone, between the Trek and Ebisu is enough to effect the performance? What about the 3 lb difference between the Rambouillet and the Trek? Or, are the perceived differences imaginary? michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Curtis R Schmitt 646.481.2625 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
I think a bike is too heavy when you don't enjoy riding it and all you can blame that on is the weight. My Ram is the heaviest bike I own, and with rare exception, the only bike I ride. On 3/17/2011 5:54 PM, MichaelH wrote: OK, now that we have dispensed with helmets, allow me to raise another controversial topic. This is not like, when am I too heavy, which is easy right now. I have 4 bikes, well 6 really, but we wont go into those details. All four of them are around 62 cm and get ridden regularly - a 1988 classic stage racing frame, weighing around 22 lbs; a Rambouillet, outfitted with White/ Open Pro wheels, a White dbl crank, Honjo fenders, a Mark's Rack, and light tires also weighing about 22 lbs.; a 1984 Trek (Reynolds 531 standard gauge tubing) with Shimano 9 speed cranks and shifters, SKS Fenders, Passella 32 mm T Guards and coming in around 25 lbs; and An Ebisu All Purpose, with front and real steel racks, steel fenders, MA 40 Rims, triple DaVinci Cranks, and 38 mm Avocet Cross tires that weighs in at a hefty 30 lbs. I live in Vermont, which has lots of rolling hills and some significant climbs. Do you think the 5 lbs alone, between the Trek and Ebisu is enough to effect the performance? What about the 3 lb difference between the Rambouillet and the Trek? Or, are the perceived differences imaginary? michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] When is a bike to heavy?
Oh good, another controversy to jump into. Herewith: 1. I imagine that heavy is said relative to rider weight, no? If a 17 lb bike is light for me, it would be simply fragile for a 250 pounder. 2. Ditto for the bikes purpose: a fixie gofast has a different standard than a touring or mountain bike. 3. The tolerable limits also have to do with one's preferences for owning fewer multipurpose or more single purpose bikes. Having disposed of that: For me, 170: gofast, certainly under 20 lb equipped. Mine is (ahem) 17 3/4 lb exactly. Nice commuter under 25 lb equipped but not laden. Mine is probably under 23 lb with rack but no bag. But when you get to errand beaters and tourer/offroad bikes, who is to say? I'd love a 20 lb ss 29er, but I'd rather have my multipurpose Fargo, which is porcine at 33 lb, than a single use, lightweight ss off road bike if I had to choose just one. My Motobecane is unweighed but, equipped and unladen, I'd guess it is at least 28 lb despite the nicely light frame thanks to heavy wheels, non-SON20R dynohub, luggage and so forth. I did some windy hills this afternoon, about 17 or 18 miles (no computer! So I can fudge!) on the gofast and let me tell you, climbing those hills, especially with SW 21 G 33 winds, is far easier when your bike is 10 lb less (and of course the wheels are far, far lighter). OTOH, the porcine Motobecane and grossly obese Fargo are still fun to ride -- funner than many a lighter bike I've ridden. I'd choose fun over light any day. (Still, how can I drop 10 lb from the Fargo.?) On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 6:54 PM, MichaelH mhech...@gmail.com wrote: OK, now that we have dispensed with helmets, allow me to raise another controversial topic. This is not like, when am I too heavy, which is easy right now. I have 4 bikes, well 6 really, but we wont go into those details. All four of them are around 62 cm and get ridden regularly - a 1988 classic stage racing frame, weighing around 22 lbs; a Rambouillet, outfitted with White/ Open Pro wheels, a White dbl crank, Honjo fenders, a Mark's Rack, and light tires also weighing about 22 lbs.; a 1984 Trek (Reynolds 531 standard gauge tubing) with Shimano 9 speed cranks and shifters, SKS Fenders, Passella 32 mm T Guards and coming in around 25 lbs; and An Ebisu All Purpose, with front and real steel racks, steel fenders, MA 40 Rims, triple DaVinci Cranks, and 38 mm Avocet Cross tires that weighs in at a hefty 30 lbs. I live in Vermont, which has lots of rolling hills and some significant climbs. Do you think the 5 lbs alone, between the Trek and Ebisu is enough to effect the performance? What about the 3 lb difference between the Rambouillet and the Trek? Or, are the perceived differences imaginary? michael -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- Patrick Moore Albuquerque, NM For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW at patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
