Re: [RBW] Panniers vs Bikepacking bags

[Will Ashe]

I'd be very curious to see front random bag vs rear saddlebag. I think I've 
heard in the past that a rando bag acts as a faring and is more 
aerodynamic. 



On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 3:47:36 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Very interesting; thanks for posting this. I was particularly interested 
> to see that he found very little difference between front and rear 
> panniers; IIRC, BQ claimed that fronts dragged less than rears. Am I right, 
> or am I not remembering correctly? At any rate, this matters to me, because 
> based on the belief that fronts drag less than rears, I installed my front 
> lowriders to accommodate my Sports Packers, hoping for lower drag than rear 
> rack with Rollers. If this is not the case, I will remove the lowriders and 
> reconfigure the Sports Packers to fit on the rear rack, which has to stay 
> in place since it holds the rear light and wiring.
>
> Too bad he did not include rear saddlebags or front rando bags. Can anyone 
> extrapolate usefully to saddlebags or rando bags? Will I be 35.1172% faster 
> with a Saddlesack Large instead of those Roller Packers?
>
> And: He could probably enjoy the convenience of Ortliebs f and r without 
> penalty by swapping those Marathons for Compasses.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Will Ashe  > wrote:
>
>> I came across this article today, and while it is not totally scientific, 
>> it is interesting.
>>
>>
>> http://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-difference-between-panniers-bikepacking-bags-aerodynamic-testing-results/
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Will Ashe
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Panniers vs Bikepacking bags

[Patrick Moore]

Very interesting; thanks for posting this. I was particularly interested to
see that he found very little difference between front and rear panniers;
IIRC, BQ claimed that fronts dragged less than rears. Am I right, or am I
not remembering correctly? At any rate, this matters to me, because based
on the belief that fronts drag less than rears, I installed my front
lowriders to accommodate my Sports Packers, hoping for lower drag than rear
rack with Rollers. If this is not the case, I will remove the lowriders and
reconfigure the Sports Packers to fit on the rear rack, which has to stay
in place since it holds the rear light and wiring.

Too bad he did not include rear saddlebags or front rando bags. Can anyone
extrapolate usefully to saddlebags or rando bags? Will I be 35.1172% faster
with a Saddlesack Large instead of those Roller Packers?

And: He could probably enjoy the convenience of Ortliebs f and r without
penalty by swapping those Marathons for Compasses.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Will Ashe  wrote:

> I came across this article today, and while it is not totally scientific,
> it is interesting.
>
> http://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-difference-between-
> panniers-bikepacking-bags-aerodynamic-testing-results/
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Will Ashe
>
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kickback for any referral resulting in fully paid, list-price contract. And
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parts, that are period compatible with my AM hub, circa 1937 to 1961. See
my website for what I do and what I charge; email for details.*

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
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**
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[RBW] Panniers vs Bikepacking bags

[Bob K.]

Thanks for posting this, Will. It's definitely an interesting read. To me, his 
testing proves that bikepacking bags don't make all that much sense for a 
relaxed tour that will generally be on tarmac and/or relatively well cared for 
gravel roads. If the time penalty for front panniers vs. bikepacking bags given 
the same amount of effort over the course of 60 miles is just a measly 15 
minutes, why not go with panniers? Again, this only really applies for road 
touring, though, because panniers (front or rear) are pains in the butt on 
off-road hike-a-bikes with lots of elevation change. That said, his test 
assumes the same weight for all setups, which generally wouldn't be the case 
since most folks, myself included, would take a few more things given the extra 
cargo capacity of panniers. 

One side note: I've only taken one trip since buying a Porcelain Rocket Mr. 
Fusion seat bag--my setup was front low rider panniers, a few small dry bags 
(tools, rain gear, etc.) in a front basket, and the PR seat bag--but I would've 
rather used a traditional saddlebag like my Carradice Super C, mostly because 
it's so much easier to access the contents vs. the PR bag. I'm waiting to make 
a final call on this, though, until I take a couple of wholly off-road trips 
this summer. I might find that the benefits of the seat bag will outweigh the 
small annoyance of packing and unpacking.

Hopefully I didn't digress too much here. Looking forward to hearing others' 
thoughts.

Bob K. in Baltimore

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[RBW] Panniers vs Bikepacking bags

[Will Ashe]

I came across this article today, and while it is not totally scientific, it is 
interesting. 

http://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-difference-between-panniers-bikepacking-bags-aerodynamic-testing-results/

Thoughts?

Will Ashe

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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Richard Lawrence]

On Sunday, August 17, 2014 3:41:03 AM UTC-7, Peter Adler wrote:

 There are roll-top pannier people, and there are flappy-top pannier 
 people. The only way to find out which one you *really* are is to buy the 
 other kind of panniers, ride around with them for a while, and realize how 
 much you hate them.


Indeed.  Well, I've decided to give the Carsicks a try; hopefully I am not 
about to find out that I'm more of a flappy-top, 
every-little-thing-in-its-place kind of person.  (I haven't owned panniers, 
but I seriously doubt that I am such a person, based on the state of 
various other things in my life...)

Besides the roll-top design and the exterior pockets, one reason I'm going 
with Carsick is that they have offered to add an additional strip of 
webbing to the back of the bags at no charge.  This will allow me to use 
the elastic/S-hook attachment with my Nitto R-15 rack, whose lowest bar is 
only about 8 inches below the top bar, but also move to a more traditional 
rack at some point without having to swap or modify my panniers.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Best,
Richard

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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Peter Adler]

There are roll-top pannier people, and there are flappy-top pannier people. 
The only way to find out which one you *really* are is to buy the other 
kind of panniers, ride around with them for a while, and realize how much 
you hate them.

I used to ride around town with a full set of purple OverLand flap+pocket 
panniers that I got in a bike swap trade. I used them for groceries and 
general errands. After a few months, I realized that I hated the design. I 
am not an organized person, and having lots of little pockets does not help 
me keep things in their proper locations; it gives me more places to lose 
things and get frustrated when they don't come immediately to hand. And the 
flap-top design is a huge failure for me - the waterproofing method is a 
dry-sack with a drawstring. When I was buying groceries, and coming out of 
a brightly lit grocery store into a dark parking lot, I'd flip up the top 
flap and start shoving groceries into the dark space, which would accept 
some stuff...only to pour out the groceries onto my shoes, as the shallow 
bowl created by the top of the dry-sack collapsed under the weight.

That sent me into a furious public rage more times than I care to remember.

For me, the real appeal of the roll-top design was that it's one great big 
pouch, with one great big hole on the top. The only way to get anything in 
is to open up the great big hole. Then you stuff in as much as you can, and 
roll the top down over the results. For me, it's a much more manageable 
system. But I would never have known that for sure if I hadn't used a 
different infuriating system for a few years beforehand.

I replaced the flappybags with a set of miscellaneous Ortlieb rolltops - 
all rears, mounted on Bruce Gordon racks (you can run Ortlieb Backrollers 
on lowrider front racks, as long as you stay on paved roads and don't make 
super-sharp turns). I have three Classics (the heavier PVC bags) and one 
Plus (the lighter rubberized Cordura). I strongly recommend the Ortlieb 
Plus over the Ortlieb Classic, if you can afford them: they're much 
lighter, and you can roll the tops down tighter, which makes a better water 
seal.

I think the flap+pocket panniers might work well for an organized person - 
someone who's good at keeping things in particular places, and remembering 
where they keep things. I am not that kind of person.

As for Ortlieb over other brands, Anne's point is spot-on: The mounting 
system works. You can feel it securely SNAPping into place.

Peter Adler
no actual touring experience, but with years of day-to-day hands-on pannier 
use in
Berkeley, CA/USA

What makes the roll-top design better?  Is it because it is more 
 weatherproof? more accessible? allows more overstuffing? 


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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Anne, I think your are reading way too much into this.  Back when Carsick 
first started making bags I wanted one of their barrel bags.  At that time 
it was my impression the wife ran the business and he made the bags.  She 
responded to all my e-mails, was willing to meet me personally on a street 
corner to make the transaction, and in the end coordinated the exchange 
through a local retailer. Although I never met her in person, she seemed 
like a very independant lady; hardly someone's pet who couldn't be trusted 
to make decisions.

Matt

On Friday, August 15, 2014 12:27:14 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:

 One random thing I'm going to add, though. Here's some text from a Carsick 
 page: 

 Trying to talk your gal into going on a bicycle tour with you? This 
 one-of-a-kind set of bicycle panniers might just be the answer. (If 
 she likes pink camo). They are light, roomy, and look sharp! 

 Apparently, in Carsick's mind,  women cyclists are like pets. The 
 little woman couldn't possibly read the web page herself, or choose, 
 herself, what she wants to buy, and then buy it. Oh no. Men must buy 
 bike gear for their gals. Vomit. 

 On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Richard Lawrence wyl...@gmail.com 
 javascript: wrote: 
  Hi everyone, 
  
  I am looking for a set of panniers, and I've been considering both a set 
  from Carsick Designs and the Sackville TourSacks for my new-to-me Sam. 
  
  I've seen a few people on the list recommend the Carsick panniers, and a 
 few 
  people express mild dissatisfaction with the TourSacks.  I am wondering 
 if 
  anyone here has experience with both and can offer an informed 
 comparison. 
  I like that the Carsick panniers are roll-top, usable individually, and 
 have 
  exterior pockets for U-lock/water bottle/fuel bottle, but this is just 
 an 
  in-theory preference: I have not owned a set of panniers before and 
 don't 
  know if those are real advantages, or if there are other things I should 
 be 
  considering. 
  
  I mostly plan to use them for camping and touring; I use a saddle bag 
 for 
  daily commuting, though I could see that changing, too.  I am especially 
  curious about: 
- relative volume and packability 
- permeability to the elements (rain, dust, whatever) 
  
  Any thoughts? 
  
  (Also, if anyone has a used pair of either that they're looking to 
 offload, 
  let me know!) 
  
  Thanks! 
  
  Best, 
  Richard 
  
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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Ron Mc]

you have a good point Matt.  Reviewing my e-mails from Brian and Monica 
when we were waiting for olive canvas from their supplier, I had many more 
contacts with Monica.  

On Saturday, August 16, 2014 11:11:19 AM UTC-5, hangtownmatt wrote:

 Anne, I think your are reading way too much into this.  Back when Carsick 
 first started making bags I wanted one of their barrel bags.  At that time 
 it was my impression the wife ran the business and he made the bags.  She 
 responded to all my e-mails, was willing to meet me personally on a street 
 corner to make the transaction, and in the end coordinated the exchange 
 through a local retailer. Although I never met her in person, she seemed 
 like a very independant lady; hardly someone's pet who couldn't be trusted 
 to make decisions.

 Matt

 On Friday, August 15, 2014 12:27:14 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:

 One random thing I'm going to add, though. Here's some text from a 
 Carsick page: 

 Trying to talk your gal into going on a bicycle tour with you? This 
 one-of-a-kind set of bicycle panniers might just be the answer. (If 
 she likes pink camo). They are light, roomy, and look sharp! 

 Apparently, in Carsick's mind,  women cyclists are like pets. The 
 little woman couldn't possibly read the web page herself, or choose, 
 herself, what she wants to buy, and then buy it. Oh no. Men must buy 
 bike gear for their gals. Vomit. 

 On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Richard Lawrence wyl...@gmail.com 
 wrote: 
  Hi everyone, 
  
  I am looking for a set of panniers, and I've been considering both a 
 set 
  from Carsick Designs and the Sackville TourSacks for my new-to-me Sam. 
  
  I've seen a few people on the list recommend the Carsick panniers, and 
 a few 
  people express mild dissatisfaction with the TourSacks.  I am wondering 
 if 
  anyone here has experience with both and can offer an informed 
 comparison. 
  I like that the Carsick panniers are roll-top, usable individually, and 
 have 
  exterior pockets for U-lock/water bottle/fuel bottle, but this is just 
 an 
  in-theory preference: I have not owned a set of panniers before and 
 don't 
  know if those are real advantages, or if there are other things I 
 should be 
  considering. 
  
  I mostly plan to use them for camping and touring; I use a saddle bag 
 for 
  daily commuting, though I could see that changing, too.  I am 
 especially 
  curious about: 
- relative volume and packability 
- permeability to the elements (rain, dust, whatever) 
  
  Any thoughts? 
  
  (Also, if anyone has a used pair of either that they're looking to 
 offload, 
  let me know!) 
  
  Thanks! 
  
  Best, 
  Richard 
  
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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi Anne,

Thanks for your advice!

On Friday, August 15, 2014 11:48:55 AM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:

 I have Ortlieb roll-top panniers, which I have used on many 
 long and short tours. 


Would you choose the Ortliebs over either the Carsick or SackVille panniers 
for touring and camping?  If so, why?  I am guessing it would mainly be the 
weatherproofing, but are there other reasons?
 

 If I were choosing between Carsick and TourSack for touring, I'd use 
 Carsick, and the decision is not close. I tour a lot with panniers, 
 and I like being able to easily remove and install panniers 
 separately. I also like the roll-top design. In my experience-- and, 
 as I said, I tour a lot, and in fact I just got back from a little 
 tour in Glacier National Park-- almost all road tourists are using 
 roll-tops now. 


What makes the roll-top design better?  Is it because it is more 
weatherproof? more accessible? allows more overstuffing? 

Thanks!

Best,
Richard

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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Richard! My question exactly, who not too long ago traded Ortlieb
Packer Pluses for Rollers.

For my own uses, largely grocery getting, the Rollers are better because
they have a much simpler closing system -- no flap, neck, drawstring,
multiple super-imposed straps. But I am puzzled as to why the Packers would
not be very good for touring, where - I conjecture -- one packs in the
morning at one's leisure and unpacks at night, also at leisure.

I vote for rain proofing.

Aside: one annoyance with at least the Ortliebe Rollers I have is that, if
you store them in a cold garage in winter, the heavily plasticized fabric
becomes stiff and this makes it moderately awkward to fold them together
and roll them up. Picking at nits, but a nit I have picked.


On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 10:02 AM, Richard Lawrence wyle...@gmail.com
wrote:


 What makes the roll-top design better?  Is it because it is more
 weatherproof? more accessible? allows more overstuffing?


*Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, Bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
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*
  * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never
was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it.
Where is there a place for you to be? No place.*
* Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to
look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind
it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into
somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your
daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is
all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was
any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there,
because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where
in your time and your body can they be?*
 * Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried.
Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where
Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of
you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood  *

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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Anne Paulson]

I would choose the Ortliebs over the Carsick or Sackville panniers
because the Ortliebs have a better attachment mechanism. The hooks
lock onto your rack, wrapping completely around the rack. To engage
them, you just put the hook over the rack and push down. To disengage,
you pull up the handle, which is the same carrying handle you're going
to be using to carry the panniers anyway. I've had other panniers come
off. The Ortliebs never do, unless I failed to put them on properly.

I also like the Ortlieb complete weatherproofing. They are absolutely
waterproof: you can carry water in them. I've used an Ortlieb to wash
clothes in.

I also like the Ortlieb roll-top mechanism. Very simple, very secure,
very waterproof.

Ortliebs are easy to use, and they always work. That gets my vote.

On Sat, Aug 16, 2014 at 9:02 AM, Richard Lawrence wyle...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Anne,

 Thanks for your advice!


 On Friday, August 15, 2014 11:48:55 AM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:

 I have Ortlieb roll-top panniers, which I have used on many
 long and short tours.


 Would you choose the Ortliebs over either the Carsick or SackVille panniers
 for touring and camping?  If so, why?  I am guessing it would mainly be the
 weatherproofing, but are there other reasons?


 If I were choosing between Carsick and TourSack for touring, I'd use
 Carsick, and the decision is not close. I tour a lot with panniers,
 and I like being able to easily remove and install panniers
 separately. I also like the roll-top design. In my experience-- and,
 as I said, I tour a lot, and in fact I just got back from a little
 tour in Glacier National Park-- almost all road tourists are using
 roll-tops now.


 What makes the roll-top design better?  Is it because it is more
 weatherproof? more accessible? allows more overstuffing?

 Thanks!

 Best,
 Richard

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It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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[RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Richard Lawrence]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for a set of panniers, and I've been considering both a set 
from Carsick Designs and the Sackville TourSacks for my new-to-me Sam.

I've seen a few people on the list recommend the Carsick panniers, and a 
few people express mild dissatisfaction with the TourSacks.  I am wondering 
if anyone here has experience with both and can offer an informed 
comparison.  I like that the Carsick panniers are roll-top, usable 
individually, and have exterior pockets for U-lock/water bottle/fuel 
bottle, but this is just an in-theory preference: I have not owned a set of 
panniers before and don't know if those are real advantages, or if there 
are other things I should be considering.

I mostly plan to use them for camping and touring; I use a saddle bag for 
daily commuting, though I could see that changing, too.  I am especially 
curious about: 
  - relative volume and packability
  - permeability to the elements (rain, dust, whatever)

Any thoughts?

(Also, if anyone has a used pair of either that they're looking to offload, 
let me know!)

Thanks!

Best,
Richard

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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Anne Paulson]

My son has a pair of the TourSacks. I think I bought them on sale.
They remain permanently attached to his Rambouillet, which he uses for
commuting. I have Ortlieb roll-top panniers, which I have used on many
long and short tours.

If I were choosing between Carsick and TourSack for touring, I'd use
Carsick, and the decision is not close. I tour a lot with panniers,
and I like being able to easily remove and install panniers
separately. I also like the roll-top design. In my experience-- and,
as I said, I tour a lot, and in fact I just got back from a little
tour in Glacier National Park-- almost all road tourists are using
roll-tops now.

On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Richard Lawrence wyle...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 I am looking for a set of panniers, and I've been considering both a set
 from Carsick Designs and the Sackville TourSacks for my new-to-me Sam.

 I've seen a few people on the list recommend the Carsick panniers, and a few
 people express mild dissatisfaction with the TourSacks.  I am wondering if
 anyone here has experience with both and can offer an informed comparison.
 I like that the Carsick panniers are roll-top, usable individually, and have
 exterior pockets for U-lock/water bottle/fuel bottle, but this is just an
 in-theory preference: I have not owned a set of panniers before and don't
 know if those are real advantages, or if there are other things I should be
 considering.

 I mostly plan to use them for camping and touring; I use a saddle bag for
 daily commuting, though I could see that changing, too.  I am especially
 curious about:
   - relative volume and packability
   - permeability to the elements (rain, dust, whatever)

 Any thoughts?

 (Also, if anyone has a used pair of either that they're looking to offload,
 let me know!)

 Thanks!

 Best,
 Richard

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It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.

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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Ron Mc]

I love my Carsick panniers.  They are heavy duty, also heavy, but they 
really load up.  Work great on a Nitto rack, and the roll top makes them 
very versatile.  

On Friday, August 15, 2014 1:48:55 PM UTC-5, Anne Paulson wrote:

 My son has a pair of the TourSacks. I think I bought them on sale. 
 They remain permanently attached to his Rambouillet, which he uses for 
 commuting. I have Ortlieb roll-top panniers, which I have used on many 
 long and short tours. 

 If I were choosing between Carsick and TourSack for touring, I'd use 
 Carsick, and the decision is not close. I tour a lot with panniers, 
 and I like being able to easily remove and install panniers 
 separately. I also like the roll-top design. In my experience-- and, 
 as I said, I tour a lot, and in fact I just got back from a little 
 tour in Glacier National Park-- almost all road tourists are using 
 roll-tops now. 

 On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Richard Lawrence wyl...@gmail.com 
 javascript: wrote: 
  Hi everyone, 
  
  I am looking for a set of panniers, and I've been considering both a set 
  from Carsick Designs and the Sackville TourSacks for my new-to-me Sam. 
  
  I've seen a few people on the list recommend the Carsick panniers, and a 
 few 
  people express mild dissatisfaction with the TourSacks.  I am wondering 
 if 
  anyone here has experience with both and can offer an informed 
 comparison. 
  I like that the Carsick panniers are roll-top, usable individually, and 
 have 
  exterior pockets for U-lock/water bottle/fuel bottle, but this is just 
 an 
  in-theory preference: I have not owned a set of panniers before and 
 don't 
  know if those are real advantages, or if there are other things I should 
 be 
  considering. 
  
  I mostly plan to use them for camping and touring; I use a saddle bag 
 for 
  daily commuting, though I could see that changing, too.  I am especially 
  curious about: 
- relative volume and packability 
- permeability to the elements (rain, dust, whatever) 
  
  Any thoughts? 
  
  (Also, if anyone has a used pair of either that they're looking to 
 offload, 
  let me know!) 
  
  Thanks! 
  
  Best, 
  Richard 
  
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 Groups 
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 -- 
 -- Anne Paulson 

 It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 


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Re: [RBW] Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Anne Paulson]

One random thing I'm going to add, though. Here's some text from a Carsick page:

Trying to talk your gal into going on a bicycle tour with you? This
one-of-a-kind set of bicycle panniers might just be the answer. (If
she likes pink camo). They are light, roomy, and look sharp!

Apparently, in Carsick's mind,  women cyclists are like pets. The
little woman couldn't possibly read the web page herself, or choose,
herself, what she wants to buy, and then buy it. Oh no. Men must buy
bike gear for their gals. Vomit.

On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Richard Lawrence wyle...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 I am looking for a set of panniers, and I've been considering both a set
 from Carsick Designs and the Sackville TourSacks for my new-to-me Sam.

 I've seen a few people on the list recommend the Carsick panniers, and a few
 people express mild dissatisfaction with the TourSacks.  I am wondering if
 anyone here has experience with both and can offer an informed comparison.
 I like that the Carsick panniers are roll-top, usable individually, and have
 exterior pockets for U-lock/water bottle/fuel bottle, but this is just an
 in-theory preference: I have not owned a set of panniers before and don't
 know if those are real advantages, or if there are other things I should be
 considering.

 I mostly plan to use them for camping and touring; I use a saddle bag for
 daily commuting, though I could see that changing, too.  I am especially
 curious about:
   - relative volume and packability
   - permeability to the elements (rain, dust, whatever)

 Any thoughts?

 (Also, if anyone has a used pair of either that they're looking to offload,
 let me know!)

 Thanks!

 Best,
 Richard

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[RBW] panniers

[Don]

OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of lighting 
I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a very 
inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. These 
would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I have 
most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. 
Thanks

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Re: [RBW] panniers

[PATRICK MOORE]

I have a pair of Ortlieb Packer Pluses and a front pair of Ortlieb
Packer Sports or whatever they are called. The nicest panniers I've
used (not that I've used many: Carradice small ones, Axioms both Dutch
and Standard, Avenirs, Nashbars). The QR mounting system with quick
adjust features is excellent.

Carradice also have a very nice mounting system.

Beware of unstructured, unstiffened panniers. These work fine with a
rack that fully protects the wheel -- ie, one with many struts like my
Tubus Logo -- but these things flop and get into the spokes otherwise,
making their use a purgatory.

Shopping panniers: I asked not too long ago for recommendations and
received many; after once again using my modified Axiom Dutch
panniers, I decided that these are really fine for short grocery rides
and that I don't need to spend more money on grocery packers. (I
reinforced the openings' lips with aluminum strut.) Any money I spend
on new panniers will be for more Ortliebs or Carradices.

Patrick Moore, who just yesterday evening carried home 35+ lbs of
groceries (including 8 lbs of sirloin on sale!!) in his Dutch Axioms.

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Don donl...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of lighting
 I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a very
 inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. These
 would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I have
 most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have front
 and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful
 including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada.
 Thanks

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-- 
Vote early, vote often, vote Rhinoceros!
http://tinyurl.com/d7muj2t

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-

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Re: [RBW] panniers

[Don]

Wow, Patrick you get the award. 35 pounds of groceries. Actually I was 
thinking of picking up a BOB Yak 28 Plus for grocery runs.

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:02:01 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

 I have a pair of Ortlieb Packer Pluses and a front pair of Ortlieb 
 Packer Sports or whatever they are called. The nicest panniers I've 
 used (not that I've used many: Carradice small ones, Axioms both Dutch 
 and Standard, Avenirs, Nashbars). The QR mounting system with quick 
 adjust features is excellent. 

 Carradice also have a very nice mounting system. 

 Beware of unstructured, unstiffened panniers. These work fine with a 
 rack that fully protects the wheel -- ie, one with many struts like my 
 Tubus Logo -- but these things flop and get into the spokes otherwise, 
 making their use a purgatory. 

 Shopping panniers: I asked not too long ago for recommendations and 
 received many; after once again using my modified Axiom Dutch 
 panniers, I decided that these are really fine for short grocery rides 
 and that I don't need to spend more money on grocery packers. (I 
 reinforced the openings' lips with aluminum strut.) Any money I spend 
 on new panniers will be for more Ortliebs or Carradices. 

 Patrick Moore, who just yesterday evening carried home 35+ lbs of 
 groceries (including 8 lbs of sirloin on sale!!) in his Dutch Axioms. 

 On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Don don...@bellsouth.net javascript: 
 wrote: 
  OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of 
 lighting 
  I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a very 
  inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. 
 These 
  would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I 
 have 
  most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
 front 
  and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
  including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while 
 enchilada. 
  Thanks 
  
  -- 
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups 
  RBW Owners Bunch group. 
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  https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/eyRdgdTm3eEJ. 
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  rbw-owne...@googlegroups.comjavascript:. 

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 -- 
 Vote early, vote often, vote Rhinoceros! 
 http://tinyurl.com/d7muj2t 

 - 
 Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA 
 For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW 
 http://resumespecialties.com/index.html 
 - 


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Re: [RBW] panniers

[Toshi Takeuchi]

I too use Ortlieb Sport panniers. Another benefit is that they are bright
yellow for good visibility.

I also like have the small (front) Carridice Super C panniers, but have not
used them in the rain.

Toshi


On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Anne Paulson anne.paul...@gmail.comwrote:

 There's a reason why Ortliebs are so popular among tourists. That
 reason is not fashion. The first day you ride hours and hours in the
 rain, and are then able to pull out dry clothes (or not), is the day
 you realize you want Ortliebs.

 On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 10:50 AM, Don donl...@bellsouth.net wrote:
  OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of
 lighting
  I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a very
  inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade.
 These
  would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I
 have
  most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have
 front
  and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful
  including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while
 enchilada.
  Thanks
 

 --
 -- Anne Paulson

 My hovercraft is full of eels

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Re: [RBW] panniers

[PATRICK MOORE]

I once grunted 45 lb (including bags) up a 4/10 mile, 20% grade on my
erstwhile 67 '73 Motobecane grocery fixie at 20 rpm (4 mph).
Yesterday it was the 24/24 at 60 on the Fargo.

Odd: the Motobecane, now belonging to Eric Norris, was built from
light 531 and weighed less than my Riv frames, yet it carried rear
loads better.

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Don donl...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 Wow, Patrick you get the award. 35 pounds of groceries. Actually I was
 thinking of picking up a BOB Yak 28 Plus for grocery runs.


 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:02:01 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

 I have a pair of Ortlieb Packer Pluses and a front pair of Ortlieb
 Packer Sports or whatever they are called. The nicest panniers I've
 used (not that I've used many: Carradice small ones, Axioms both Dutch
 and Standard, Avenirs, Nashbars). The QR mounting system with quick
 adjust features is excellent.

 Carradice also have a very nice mounting system.

 Beware of unstructured, unstiffened panniers. These work fine with a
 rack that fully protects the wheel -- ie, one with many struts like my
 Tubus Logo -- but these things flop and get into the spokes otherwise,
 making their use a purgatory.

 Shopping panniers: I asked not too long ago for recommendations and
 received many; after once again using my modified Axiom Dutch
 panniers, I decided that these are really fine for short grocery rides
 and that I don't need to spend more money on grocery packers. (I
 reinforced the openings' lips with aluminum strut.) Any money I spend
 on new panniers will be for more Ortliebs or Carradices.

 Patrick Moore, who just yesterday evening carried home 35+ lbs of
 groceries (including 8 lbs of sirloin on sale!!) in his Dutch Axioms.

 On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Don don...@bellsouth.net wrote:
  OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of
  lighting
  I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a very
  inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade.
  These
  would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I
  have
  most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have
  front
  and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful
  including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while
  enchilada.
  Thanks
 
  --
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 --
 Vote early, vote often, vote Rhinoceros!
 http://tinyurl.com/d7muj2t

 -
 Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
 For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
 http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
 -

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-- 
Vote early, vote often, vote Rhinoceros!
http://tinyurl.com/d7muj2t

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
-

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Re: [RBW] panniers

[PATRICK MOORE]

More accurately, the steepest parts of that hill are 20% or more;
there are shallower sections.

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:23 PM, PATRICK MOORE bertin...@gmail.com wrote:
 I once grunted 45 lb (including bags) up a 4/10 mile, 20% grade on my
 erstwhile 67 '73 Motobecane grocery fixie at 20 rpm (4 mph).
 Yesterday it was the 24/24 at 60 on the Fargo.

 Odd: the Motobecane, now belonging to Eric Norris, was built from
 light 531 and weighed less than my Riv frames, yet it carried rear
 loads better.

 On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 12:13 PM, Don donl...@bellsouth.net wrote:
 Wow, Patrick you get the award. 35 pounds of groceries. Actually I was
 thinking of picking up a BOB Yak 28 Plus for grocery runs.


 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:02:01 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:

 I have a pair of Ortlieb Packer Pluses and a front pair of Ortlieb
 Packer Sports or whatever they are called. The nicest panniers I've
 used (not that I've used many: Carradice small ones, Axioms both Dutch
 and Standard, Avenirs, Nashbars). The QR mounting system with quick
 adjust features is excellent.

 Carradice also have a very nice mounting system.

 Beware of unstructured, unstiffened panniers. These work fine with a
 rack that fully protects the wheel -- ie, one with many struts like my
 Tubus Logo -- but these things flop and get into the spokes otherwise,
 making their use a purgatory.

 Shopping panniers: I asked not too long ago for recommendations and
 received many; after once again using my modified Axiom Dutch
 panniers, I decided that these are really fine for short grocery rides
 and that I don't need to spend more money on grocery packers. (I
 reinforced the openings' lips with aluminum strut.) Any money I spend
 on new panniers will be for more Ortliebs or Carradices.

 Patrick Moore, who just yesterday evening carried home 35+ lbs of
 groceries (including 8 lbs of sirloin on sale!!) in his Dutch Axioms.

 On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Don don...@bellsouth.net wrote:
  OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of
  lighting
  I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a very
  inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade.
  These
  would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I
  have
  most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have
  front
  and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful
  including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while
  enchilada.
  Thanks
 
  --
  You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
  Groups
  RBW Owners Bunch group.
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 Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
 For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
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 Vote early, vote often, vote Rhinoceros!
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 -
 Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
 For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
 http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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Vote early, vote often, vote Rhinoceros!
http://tinyurl.com/d7muj2t

-
Patrick Moore, Albuquerque, NM, USA
For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
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[RBW] panniers

[jandrews_nyc]

I think I read somewhere that Riv is going to release a pannier set...
Does anyone know if this is true? I'm in the market for a set...maybe
two and don't want to purchase until I see what Riv comes up with...
Will they be part of the Sackville lineup?
WIll they be more for commuting or touring specific?
Anyone have any ideas?
Also..still on the prowl for an appropriate Sam Hillborne Green paint
touch up source...
Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] panniers

[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:35 PM, jandrews_nyc jasonaschwa...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think I read somewhere that Riv is going to release a pannier set...
 Does anyone know if this is true? I'm in the market for a set...maybe
 two and don't want to purchase until I see what Riv comes up with...
 Will they be part of the Sackville lineup?
 WIll they be more for commuting or touring specific?
 Anyone have any ideas?

I hadn't heard about panniers but I would love to see new bags in the
brand-v line. I like mine very much so far.

-sv

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[RBW] panniers

[Hill n' Dale]

I'm looking to purchase a used set of front panniers to compliment a
set of baggins that I have in back, not low riders or ones made out of
cordura.  I'll be using them for touring fire roads and trails.  Any
suggestions of where to look?  I tried ebay, mostly junk.

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