Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[dougP]

I have the new version 2 Silvers on my Atlantis.  The right one works fine 
but the left one seems overly fussy.  I'm wondering if the FD has more 
resistance or a stronger spring than the RD?  Naturally, I've checked out 
all the usual suspects & everything is good.  Installed new cables with the 
new shifters so no problems there.  I have to crank the D ring so much it 
discourages front shifting.

Still tinkering, 

DougP

On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 5:53:14 PM UTC-7, Eric Marth wrote:
>
> Installed Silver (v1) shifters on Shimano pods last night/this morning. I 
> had a problem very similar to what Nikko described above. The lever for the 
> rear derailleur worked like a dream. But the one operating the front mech 
> was difficult to use. 
>
> Surly LHT, Albatross bars, Shimano pods. Front derailleur is a Shimano 
> Tiagra FD-4503.
>
> After some trial and error I have them working nicely. The Shimano levers 
> I removed worked just fine. I installed the new Silvers using instructions 
> for SuperMix Shifters from a 1999 Riv catalog: Snipped and modified the 
> shifter boss stop, mounted lever and washers, applied beeswax to the wing 
> nut. Installed cables as normal. The lever for the rear worked just fine. 
> The lever for the front was *very *difficult to operate. At first I 
> thought I couldn't move it at all. 
>
> I took the troubled lever off. With a closer look I noticed the shifter 
> boss wasn't sitting perfectly flat. The channel I cut there needed to be a 
> bit wider to clear the nub in the shifter pod. So I filed that down some 
> more. And I had incorrectly run the cable at the pinch bolt. I had been 
> going under the tab, I needed to go over top the tab (consulted 
> installation manual and some forums). This changed the leverage a bit to my 
> advantage. 
>
> While doing this I also replaced the cable and housing. I didn't see 
> anything troublesome in the cables and housing so far as crimps, dimples or 
> kinks. I applied some additional beeswax to the threads of the wing nut. 
> Reassembled. 
>
> Now the shifter is working as expected. 
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 8:41:51 PM UTC-4 JohnS wrote:
>
>> I second the N+1 for the cassette cog count to the chain. I have a 
>> Shimano 9 speed cassette and a 10 speed SRAM chain ( PC-1031), work very 
>> well together with my Suntour down tube shifters. RD shifter stays put, but 
>> the FD shifter comes loose with frequent shifting. I just keep tightening 
>> the D ring, may switch to the Silver DT shifters. We'll see.
>>
>> JohnS
>>
>> On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 12:49:23 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> BTW, the finicky chain tracking is not necessarily related to slipping 
>>> shifters; I've had it happen with shifters that never slipped. But for 
>>> slipping, to repeat it again, loudly: blue Loctite fixed my Silvers as it 
>>> did the old Campy Record DT shifters that are notorious for loosening, and 
>>> that I used on the ineffably nice Kelly Take-Off mounts.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Nikko in Oakland]

Shoulda updated y'all!! 


*> And I had incorrectly run the cable at the pinch bolt. I had been going 
under the tab, I needed to go over top the tab (consulted installation 
manual and some forums). This changed the leverage a bit to my advantage*
Yes, I actually did the *sme *thing. Once I run over top the tab 
instead of under, it started working as expected. Finally took a longer 
ride yesterday with the shifters and it's a bit stiff, but I think that's 
just me getting used to it vs having them on the downtube. I feel like it 
was just a rookie mistake on my behalf, but happy with them now. 
On Monday, October 12, 2020 at 5:53:14 PM UTC-7 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Installed Silver (v1) shifters on Shimano pods last night/this morning. I 
> had a problem very similar to what Nikko described above. The lever for the 
> rear derailleur worked like a dream. But the one operating the front mech 
> was difficult to use. 
>
> Surly LHT, Albatross bars, Shimano pods. Front derailleur is a Shimano 
> Tiagra FD-4503.
>
> After some trial and error I have them working nicely. The Shimano levers 
> I removed worked just fine. I installed the new Silvers using instructions 
> for SuperMix Shifters from a 1999 Riv catalog: Snipped and modified the 
> shifter boss stop, mounted lever and washers, applied beeswax to the wing 
> nut. Installed cables as normal. The lever for the rear worked just fine. 
> The lever for the front was *very *difficult to operate. At first I 
> thought I couldn't move it at all. 
>
> I took the troubled lever off. With a closer look I noticed the shifter 
> boss wasn't sitting perfectly flat. The channel I cut there needed to be a 
> bit wider to clear the nub in the shifter pod. So I filed that down some 
> more. And I had incorrectly run the cable at the pinch bolt. I had been 
> going under the tab, I needed to go over top the tab (consulted 
> installation manual and some forums). This changed the leverage a bit to my 
> advantage. 
>
> While doing this I also replaced the cable and housing. I didn't see 
> anything troublesome in the cables and housing so far as crimps, dimples or 
> kinks. I applied some additional beeswax to the threads of the wing nut. 
> Reassembled. 
>
> Now the shifter is working as expected. 
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 8:41:51 PM UTC-4 JohnS wrote:
>
>> I second the N+1 for the cassette cog count to the chain. I have a 
>> Shimano 9 speed cassette and a 10 speed SRAM chain ( PC-1031), work very 
>> well together with my Suntour down tube shifters. RD shifter stays put, but 
>> the FD shifter comes loose with frequent shifting. I just keep tightening 
>> the D ring, may switch to the Silver DT shifters. We'll see.
>>
>> JohnS
>>
>> On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 12:49:23 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> BTW, the finicky chain tracking is not necessarily related to slipping 
>>> shifters; I've had it happen with shifters that never slipped. But for 
>>> slipping, to repeat it again, loudly: blue Loctite fixed my Silvers as it 
>>> did the old Campy Record DT shifters that are notorious for loosening, and 
>>> that I used on the ineffably nice Kelly Take-Off mounts.
>>>
>>>
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Eric Marth]

Installed Silver (v1) shifters on Shimano pods last night/this morning. I 
had a problem very similar to what Nikko described above. The lever for the 
rear derailleur worked like a dream. But the one operating the front mech 
was difficult to use. 

Surly LHT, Albatross bars, Shimano pods. Front derailleur is a Shimano 
Tiagra FD-4503.

After some trial and error I have them working nicely. The Shimano levers I 
removed worked just fine. I installed the new Silvers using instructions 
for SuperMix Shifters from a 1999 Riv catalog: Snipped and modified the 
shifter boss stop, mounted lever and washers, applied beeswax to the wing 
nut. Installed cables as normal. The lever for the rear worked just fine. 
The lever for the front was *very *difficult to operate. At first I thought 
I couldn't move it at all. 

I took the troubled lever off. With a closer look I noticed the shifter 
boss wasn't sitting perfectly flat. The channel I cut there needed to be a 
bit wider to clear the nub in the shifter pod. So I filed that down some 
more. And I had incorrectly run the cable at the pinch bolt. I had been 
going under the tab, I needed to go over top the tab (consulted 
installation manual and some forums). This changed the leverage a bit to my 
advantage. 

While doing this I also replaced the cable and housing. I didn't see 
anything troublesome in the cables and housing so far as crimps, dimples or 
kinks. I applied some additional beeswax to the threads of the wing nut. 
Reassembled. 

Now the shifter is working as expected. 

On Friday, October 9, 2020 at 8:41:51 PM UTC-4 JohnS wrote:

> I second the N+1 for the cassette cog count to the chain. I have a Shimano 
> 9 speed cassette and a 10 speed SRAM chain ( PC-1031), work very well 
> together with my Suntour down tube shifters. RD shifter stays put, but the 
> FD shifter comes loose with frequent shifting. I just keep tightening the D 
> ring, may switch to the Silver DT shifters. We'll see.
>
> JohnS
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 12:49:23 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> BTW, the finicky chain tracking is not necessarily related to slipping 
>> shifters; I've had it happen with shifters that never slipped. But for 
>> slipping, to repeat it again, loudly: blue Loctite fixed my Silvers as it 
>> did the old Campy Record DT shifters that are notorious for loosening, and 
>> that I used on the ineffably nice Kelly Take-Off mounts.
>>
>>
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Eric Marth]

Nikko – I'm having the same problem with a set of Silvers I installed 
today. Anything improve your shifting? 

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 8:32:24 PM UTC-4 Nikko in Oakland wrote:

> Hey Sam, 
>
> I just got some brand new Silver Shifters (v1) today that I put on with 
> some VO thumbies. I'm having a similar-ish problem and wondering if you're 
> experiencing the same, but more along the lines of the problem J L 
> mentioned (spring return) . 
>
> My problem is that the shifting for the front shifter is suuper hard 
> to do. Is this similar to your problem? I push the shifter pretty hard and 
> I feel like I'm definitely forcing it. I finally get it to shift, but then 
> I do that a couple more times, and at this point the cable is looser than 
> it was before, getting pulled out of the tensioning screw. Do you think the 
> problem is similar, or is this really just a difference in the spring 
> return of the front derailleur? 
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 4:31 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Note that the levers would loosen and slip even when the plastic tension 
>> washers were whole. Blue Loctite solved the slipping problem but not the 
>> washer breakage (or shifter body breakage) problem.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> I applied blue Loctite to the tension bolts, and this worked. But the 
>>> need to do this, and my experience of breaking 2 right-side Silver shifter 
>>> bodies when my bikes fell over, took me back to the old Suntour Bar Cons -- 
>>> where I have to use blue Loctite anyway to ensure that the shiny and very 
>>> hard to find locknuts don't fall off.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Sam Perez  wrote:
>>>
 hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, 
 i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens 
 with 
 multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost 
 shift under load.

 thanks

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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
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>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguLD9ck-ktPgZ1DYnF7etVBxL9UVyA8dyFMCMLFYFv3tw%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Onward, 
> Nikko Mendoza
> nikkog...@gmail.com
> 757-618-1124
>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[JohnS]

I second the N+1 for the cassette cog count to the chain. I have a Shimano 
9 speed cassette and a 10 speed SRAM chain ( PC-1031), work very well 
together with my Suntour down tube shifters. RD shifter stays put, but the 
FD shifter comes loose with frequent shifting. I just keep tightening the D 
ring, may switch to the Silver DT shifters. We'll see.

JohnS

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 12:49:23 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> BTW, the finicky chain tracking is not necessarily related to slipping 
> shifters; I've had it happen with shifters that never slipped. But for 
> slipping, to repeat it again, loudly: blue Loctite fixed my Silvers as it 
> did the old Campy Record DT shifters that are notorious for loosening, and 
> that I used on the ineffably nice Kelly Take-Off mounts.
>
>
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Patrick Moore]

BTW, the finicky chain tracking is not necessarily related to slipping
shifters; I've had it happen with shifters that never slipped. But for
slipping, to repeat it again, loudly: blue Loctite fixed my Silvers as it
did the old Campy Record DT shifters that are notorious for loosening, and
that I used on the ineffably nice Kelly Take-Off mounts.


Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Patrick Moore]

Again, blue Loctite solved the slipping problem with my first gen Silver
BES.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 7:50 AM lambbo  wrote:

> Nikko, I've had the same problem with my Silver 2 Shifters...very handsome
> but (besides immediate rusting on the bolts) they just don't really work -
> I have to tighten them so much that they're hard to shift, and then they
> slip back again a few shifts later.  I don't have this problem with my old
> Silver shifters, set up downtube.
>
> On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 8:21:21 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> Note that if you use brake housing or non-index shifter cable housing for
>> your shifter cable housing, it can cause derailleur movement under load and
>> when turning if your shifters are bar or stem mounted. This was not of
>> concern back when freewheels had five (yes I am old) or six widely spaced
>> cogs, but if you are running 9, 10, 11+ cogs, it may contribute to unwanted
>> gear changes. Irrelevant if the shifter is slipping because it is loose,
>> but something to check if the shifter is not at fault
>>
>> Laing
>> Delray Beach FL
>>
>>>
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> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Patrick Moore]

I've experienced finicky chain tracking myself on the middle cogs, but I've
found one can replace the troublesome cogs with others of the same size
that aren't as finicky. Even better, my most recent cassette, built out of
real Miche 10-speed cogs (instead of 7, 8, and 9 speed leftovers from my
cog box) keeps the chain tracking wonderfully even when shifting with the
far lower MA Suntour bar cons; perhaps this is because I tried the trick
(per Bike Radar) of using an 11 speed chain on the 10 speed cassette.

That said, IME, otherwise HG cogs work very well with friction; at least as
well as non HG cogs, and I think, overall, better.

Perhaps try the trick of using a chain 1 generation thinner than your
cassette.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2020 at 3:22 AM Garth  wrote:

>
>
>FWIW, I've noticed on my 9sp 12-36 cassette the middle cogs in
> particular have to spot-on with the chain in order to hold the gear.
> Contrast that to my Sachs 7sp FW that offers a whole lotta leeway in that
> regard. The cassette cogs are so contoured/shaped to facilitate ease of
> shifts with their indexed shifters. With a friction shifter such isn't
> necessary or helpful, even maddening at times as you have experienced Sam.
>
>   Since I ride bike with both cassettes and freewheels it sometimes takes
> some "time to remember" the seemingly wacky nature of shifting cassette
> cogs compared to freewheel cogs.
>
>   The Sprint shifters never were very good at holding the gear without the
> assistance of a thread locker. Back when they came out in the 80's I always
> preferred Campy DT shifters as they held their tension. Contrast the Sprint
> with SunTour's original thumbshifters, which are excellent at holding the
> gear with only modest tension of the bolt, never ever requiring thread
> lockers. The difference between the two is the innards, the thumbshifter
> having a larger radius ratcheting mechanism inside, and the thumbshifters
> have metal washers, no plastic is to found anywhere in those.
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-4, Sam Perez wrote:
>>
>> Interesting perhaps it's also somthing else in the drivetrain. Like the
>> cassette? I have had the bike for 8 years but this one was seldom used.
>> Let's see if the locktight not only helps with lever slip but with the
>> pedals free spinning for a quarter revolution at random times, as a
>> possible slip symptom.
>>
>> Thanks all I'll report back after I test it on some hills.
>>
>>>
>>> --
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> .
>


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---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[lambbo]

Nikko, I've had the same problem with my Silver 2 Shifters...very handsome 
but (besides immediate rusting on the bolts) they just don't really work - 
I have to tighten them so much that they're hard to shift, and then they 
slip back again a few shifts later.  I don't have this problem with my old 
Silver shifters, set up downtube.  

On Thursday, October 8, 2020 at 8:21:21 AM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> Note that if you use brake housing or non-index shifter cable housing for 
> your shifter cable housing, it can cause derailleur movement under load and 
> when turning if your shifters are bar or stem mounted. This was not of 
> concern back when freewheels had five (yes I am old) or six widely spaced 
> cogs, but if you are running 9, 10, 11+ cogs, it may contribute to unwanted 
> gear changes. Irrelevant if the shifter is slipping because it is loose, 
> but something to check if the shifter is not at fault
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
>>


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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[lconley]

Note that if you use brake housing or non-index shifter cable housing for 
your shifter cable housing, it can cause derailleur movement under load and 
when turning if your shifters are bar or stem mounted. This was not of 
concern back when freewheels had five (yes I am old) or six widely spaced 
cogs, but if you are running 9, 10, 11+ cogs, it may contribute to unwanted 
gear changes. Irrelevant if the shifter is slipping because it is loose, 
but something to check if the shifter is not at fault

Laing
Delray Beach FL

>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Garth]

   FWIW, I've noticed on my 9sp 12-36 cassette the middle cogs in 
particular have to spot-on with the chain in order to hold the gear. 
Contrast that to my Sachs 7sp FW that offers a whole lotta leeway in that 
regard. The cassette cogs are so contoured/shaped to facilitate ease of 
shifts with their indexed shifters. With a friction shifter such isn't 
necessary or helpful, even maddening at times as you have experienced Sam. 

  Since I ride bike with both cassettes and freewheels it sometimes takes 
some "time to remember" the seemingly wacky nature of shifting cassette 
cogs compared to freewheel cogs. 

  The Sprint shifters never were very good at holding the gear without the 
assistance of a thread locker. Back when they came out in the 80's I always 
preferred Campy DT shifters as they held their tension. Contrast the Sprint 
with SunTour's original thumbshifters, which are excellent at holding the 
gear with only modest tension of the bolt, never ever requiring thread 
lockers. The difference between the two is the innards, the thumbshifter 
having a larger radius ratcheting mechanism inside, and the thumbshifters 
have metal washers, no plastic is to found anywhere in those. 




On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 1:06:11 PM UTC-4, Sam Perez wrote:
>
> Interesting perhaps it's also somthing else in the drivetrain. Like the 
> cassette? I have had the bike for 8 years but this one was seldom used. 
> Let's see if the locktight not only helps with lever slip but with the 
> pedals free spinning for a quarter revolution at random times, as a 
> possible slip symptom. 
>
> Thanks all I'll report back after I test it on some hills.
>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Bill Lindsay]

It sounds like it may be worthwhile for you to have a good mechanic inspect 
your setup.  Diagnosis shouldn't take long for a good mechanic.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Wednesday, October 7, 2020 at 10:06:11 AM UTC-7 Sam Perez wrote:

> Interesting perhaps it's also somthing else in the drivetrain. Like the 
> cassette? I have had the bike for 8 years but this one was seldom used. 
> Let's see if the locktight not only helps with lever slip but with the 
> pedals free spinning for a quarter revolution at random times, as a 
> possible slip symptom. 
>
> Thanks all I'll report back after I test it on some hills.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 10:25 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Sam: FWIW, I used my Silvers, original version, with an old 8-speed-era 
>> XT rd as well as several others; I didin't notice that slippage was worse 
>> with the XT than with the Dura Ace or Microshift or LX reverse pull, but at 
>> any rate, blue Loctite kept the lever firm with all these derailleurs.
>>
>> (And, just in case, blue also fixed any slipping problem with XT, LX, and 
>> Dura Ace front derailleurs.)
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:06 PM Sam Perez  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm begining to think the xt rear derailleur has a big part in it. It's 
>>> a thick steel  mt bike frame  I'm sure flex has a minor part bc I tried to 
>>> slowly crank up a hill without leveraging the bars as to not flex the bike, 
>>> and the silver shifter slipped to the next gear. After a few shifts it only 
>>> loosened. I just got home from the hardware store. Gonna apply locktight. 
>>> My silver shifter is the first model so the washer i have is the one that 
>>> they later improved on. I don't know where to get a list of deraliurs with 
>>> strong springs or if there is a list of deraliurs that are not as 
>>> compatible with silver DT shifters. I'll report back after some rides.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 5:32 PM Nikko Mendoza  wrote:
>>>
 Hey Sam, 

 I just got some brand new Silver Shifters (v1) today that I put on with 
 some VO thumbies. I'm having a similar-ish problem and wondering if you're 
 experiencing the same, but more along the lines of the problem J L 
 mentioned (spring return) . 

 My problem is that the shifting for the front shifter is suuper 
 hard to do. Is this similar to your problem? I push the shifter pretty 
 hard 
 and I feel like I'm definitely forcing it. I finally get it to shift, but 
 then I do that a couple more times, and at this point the cable is looser 
 than it was before, getting pulled out of the tensioning screw. Do you 
 think the problem is similar, or is this really just a difference in the 
 spring return of the front derailleur? 

 On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 4:31 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Note that the levers would loosen and slip even when the plastic 
> tension washers were whole. Blue Loctite solved the slipping problem but 
> not the washer breakage (or shifter body breakage) problem.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Moore  
> wrote:
>
>> I applied blue Loctite to the tension bolts, and this worked. But the 
>> need to do this, and my experience of breaking 2 right-side Silver 
>> shifter 
>> bodies when my bikes fell over, took me back to the old Suntour Bar Cons 
>> -- 
>> where I have to use blue Loctite anyway to ensure that the shiny and 
>> very 
>> hard to find locknuts don't fall off.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Sam Perez  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under 
>>> load, i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly 
>>> loosens with multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence 
>>> that i 
>>> wont ghost shift under load.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJN34zkhXhsXVh9YiLKsT-Sbg4MBmqcEHh1%3DLTXqNZK_KcQWvw%40mail.gmail.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -- 
> You received this message 

Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Sam Perez]

Interesting perhaps it's also somthing else in the drivetrain. Like the
cassette? I have had the bike for 8 years but this one was seldom used.
Let's see if the locktight not only helps with lever slip but with the
pedals free spinning for a quarter revolution at random times, as a
possible slip symptom.

Thanks all I'll report back after I test it on some hills.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 10:25 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Sam: FWIW, I used my Silvers, original version, with an old 8-speed-era XT
> rd as well as several others; I didin't notice that slippage was worse with
> the XT than with the Dura Ace or Microshift or LX reverse pull, but at any
> rate, blue Loctite kept the lever firm with all these derailleurs.
>
> (And, just in case, blue also fixed any slipping problem with XT, LX, and
> Dura Ace front derailleurs.)
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:06 PM Sam Perez  wrote:
>
>> I'm begining to think the xt rear derailleur has a big part in it. It's a
>> thick steel  mt bike frame  I'm sure flex has a minor part bc I tried to
>> slowly crank up a hill without leveraging the bars as to not flex the bike,
>> and the silver shifter slipped to the next gear. After a few shifts it only
>> loosened. I just got home from the hardware store. Gonna apply locktight.
>> My silver shifter is the first model so the washer i have is the one that
>> they later improved on. I don't know where to get a list of deraliurs with
>> strong springs or if there is a list of deraliurs that are not as
>> compatible with silver DT shifters. I'll report back after some rides.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 5:32 PM Nikko Mendoza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Sam,
>>>
>>> I just got some brand new Silver Shifters (v1) today that I put on with
>>> some VO thumbies. I'm having a similar-ish problem and wondering if you're
>>> experiencing the same, but more along the lines of the problem J L
>>> mentioned (spring return) .
>>>
>>> My problem is that the shifting for the front shifter is suuper hard
>>> to do. Is this similar to your problem? I push the shifter pretty hard and
>>> I feel like I'm definitely forcing it. I finally get it to shift, but then
>>> I do that a couple more times, and at this point the cable is looser than
>>> it was before, getting pulled out of the tensioning screw. Do you think the
>>> problem is similar, or is this really just a difference in the spring
>>> return of the front derailleur?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 4:31 PM Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Note that the levers would loosen and slip even when the plastic
 tension washers were whole. Blue Loctite solved the slipping problem but
 not the washer breakage (or shifter body breakage) problem.

 On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Moore 
 wrote:

> I applied blue Loctite to the tension bolts, and this worked. But the
> need to do this, and my experience of breaking 2 right-side Silver shifter
> bodies when my bikes fell over, took me back to the old Suntour Bar Cons 
> --
> where I have to use blue Loctite anyway to ensure that the shiny and very
> hard to find locknuts don't fall off.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Sam Perez 
> wrote:
>
>> hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under
>> load, i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly
>> loosens with multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence 
>> that i
>> wont ghost shift under load.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJN34zkhXhsXVh9YiLKsT-Sbg4MBmqcEHh1%3DLTXqNZK_KcQWvw%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

 --

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

 --
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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
 an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Patrick Moore]

Sam: FWIW, I used my Silvers, original version, with an old 8-speed-era XT
rd as well as several others; I didin't notice that slippage was worse with
the XT than with the Dura Ace or Microshift or LX reverse pull, but at any
rate, blue Loctite kept the lever firm with all these derailleurs.

(And, just in case, blue also fixed any slipping problem with XT, LX, and
Dura Ace front derailleurs.)

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:06 PM Sam Perez  wrote:

> I'm begining to think the xt rear derailleur has a big part in it. It's a
> thick steel  mt bike frame  I'm sure flex has a minor part bc I tried to
> slowly crank up a hill without leveraging the bars as to not flex the bike,
> and the silver shifter slipped to the next gear. After a few shifts it only
> loosened. I just got home from the hardware store. Gonna apply locktight.
> My silver shifter is the first model so the washer i have is the one that
> they later improved on. I don't know where to get a list of deraliurs with
> strong springs or if there is a list of deraliurs that are not as
> compatible with silver DT shifters. I'll report back after some rides.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 5:32 PM Nikko Mendoza 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Sam,
>>
>> I just got some brand new Silver Shifters (v1) today that I put on with
>> some VO thumbies. I'm having a similar-ish problem and wondering if you're
>> experiencing the same, but more along the lines of the problem J L
>> mentioned (spring return) .
>>
>> My problem is that the shifting for the front shifter is suuper hard
>> to do. Is this similar to your problem? I push the shifter pretty hard and
>> I feel like I'm definitely forcing it. I finally get it to shift, but then
>> I do that a couple more times, and at this point the cable is looser than
>> it was before, getting pulled out of the tensioning screw. Do you think the
>> problem is similar, or is this really just a difference in the spring
>> return of the front derailleur?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 4:31 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> Note that the levers would loosen and slip even when the plastic tension
>>> washers were whole. Blue Loctite solved the slipping problem but not the
>>> washer breakage (or shifter body breakage) problem.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I applied blue Loctite to the tension bolts, and this worked. But the
 need to do this, and my experience of breaking 2 right-side Silver shifter
 bodies when my bikes fell over, took me back to the old Suntour Bar Cons --
 where I have to use blue Loctite anyway to ensure that the shiny and very
 hard to find locknuts don't fall off.

 On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Sam Perez 
 wrote:

> hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under
> load, i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly
> loosens with multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that 
> i
> wont ghost shift under load.
>
> thanks
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJN34zkhXhsXVh9YiLKsT-Sbg4MBmqcEHh1%3DLTXqNZK_KcQWvw%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>


 --

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum


>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguLD9ck-ktPgZ1DYnF7etVBxL9UVyA8dyFMCMLFYFv3tw%40mail.gmail.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Onward,
>> Nikko Mendoza
>> nikkogmend...@gmail.com
>> 757-618-1124
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> 

Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Sam Perez]

I'm begining to think the xt rear derailleur has a big part in it. It's a
thick steel  mt bike frame  I'm sure flex has a minor part bc I tried to
slowly crank up a hill without leveraging the bars as to not flex the bike,
and the silver shifter slipped to the next gear. After a few shifts it only
loosened. I just got home from the hardware store. Gonna apply locktight.
My silver shifter is the first model so the washer i have is the one that
they later improved on. I don't know where to get a list of deraliurs with
strong springs or if there is a list of deraliurs that are not as
compatible with silver DT shifters. I'll report back after some rides.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 5:32 PM Nikko Mendoza  wrote:

> Hey Sam,
>
> I just got some brand new Silver Shifters (v1) today that I put on with
> some VO thumbies. I'm having a similar-ish problem and wondering if you're
> experiencing the same, but more along the lines of the problem J L
> mentioned (spring return) .
>
> My problem is that the shifting for the front shifter is suuper hard
> to do. Is this similar to your problem? I push the shifter pretty hard and
> I feel like I'm definitely forcing it. I finally get it to shift, but then
> I do that a couple more times, and at this point the cable is looser than
> it was before, getting pulled out of the tensioning screw. Do you think the
> problem is similar, or is this really just a difference in the spring
> return of the front derailleur?
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 4:31 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Note that the levers would loosen and slip even when the plastic tension
>> washers were whole. Blue Loctite solved the slipping problem but not the
>> washer breakage (or shifter body breakage) problem.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> I applied blue Loctite to the tension bolts, and this worked. But the
>>> need to do this, and my experience of breaking 2 right-side Silver shifter
>>> bodies when my bikes fell over, took me back to the old Suntour Bar Cons --
>>> where I have to use blue Loctite anyway to ensure that the shiny and very
>>> hard to find locknuts don't fall off.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Sam Perez 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load,
 i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with
 multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost
 shift under load.

 thanks

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
 an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit
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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguLD9ck-ktPgZ1DYnF7etVBxL9UVyA8dyFMCMLFYFv3tw%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
> Onward,
> Nikko Mendoza
> nikkogmend...@gmail.com
> 757-618-1124
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAESSHAwxgj07X8Abonwnftf67cEp4Wo-Mo3mbmT3L4LH6KA9bQ%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Nikko Mendoza]

Hey Sam,

I just got some brand new Silver Shifters (v1) today that I put on with
some VO thumbies. I'm having a similar-ish problem and wondering if you're
experiencing the same, but more along the lines of the problem J L
mentioned (spring return) .

My problem is that the shifting for the front shifter is suuper hard to
do. Is this similar to your problem? I push the shifter pretty hard and I
feel like I'm definitely forcing it. I finally get it to shift, but then I
do that a couple more times, and at this point the cable is looser than it
was before, getting pulled out of the tensioning screw. Do you think the
problem is similar, or is this really just a difference in the spring
return of the front derailleur?

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 4:31 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Note that the levers would loosen and slip even when the plastic tension
> washers were whole. Blue Loctite solved the slipping problem but not the
> washer breakage (or shifter body breakage) problem.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> I applied blue Loctite to the tension bolts, and this worked. But the
>> need to do this, and my experience of breaking 2 right-side Silver shifter
>> bodies when my bikes fell over, took me back to the old Suntour Bar Cons --
>> where I have to use blue Loctite anyway to ensure that the shiny and very
>> hard to find locknuts don't fall off.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Sam Perez 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load,
>>> i tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with
>>> multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost
>>> shift under load.
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJN34zkhXhsXVh9YiLKsT-Sbg4MBmqcEHh1%3DLTXqNZK_KcQWvw%40mail.gmail.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguLD9ck-ktPgZ1DYnF7etVBxL9UVyA8dyFMCMLFYFv3tw%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
Onward,
Nikko Mendoza
nikkogmend...@gmail.com
757-618-1124

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Patrick Moore]

Note that the levers would loosen and slip even when the plastic tension
washers were whole. Blue Loctite solved the slipping problem but not the
washer breakage (or shifter body breakage) problem.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 5:30 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I applied blue Loctite to the tension bolts, and this worked. But the need
> to do this, and my experience of breaking 2 right-side Silver shifter
> bodies when my bikes fell over, took me back to the old Suntour Bar Cons --
> where I have to use blue Loctite anyway to ensure that the shiny and very
> hard to find locknuts don't fall off.
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Sam Perez  wrote:
>
>> hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i
>> tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with
>> multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost
>> shift under load.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJN34zkhXhsXVh9YiLKsT-Sbg4MBmqcEHh1%3DLTXqNZK_KcQWvw%40mail.gmail.com
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Patrick Moore]

I applied blue Loctite to the tension bolts, and this worked. But the need
to do this, and my experience of breaking 2 right-side Silver shifter
bodies when my bikes fell over, took me back to the old Suntour Bar Cons --
where I have to use blue Loctite anyway to ensure that the shiny and very
hard to find locknuts don't fall off.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 9:44 AM Sam Perez  wrote:

> hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i
> tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with
> multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost
> shift under load.
>
> thanks
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAJN34zkhXhsXVh9YiLKsT-Sbg4MBmqcEHh1%3DLTXqNZK_KcQWvw%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[J L]

Some derailers have a stronger return spring than others. I would put it 
further down the list, though. 

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Clayton Scott]

Maybe add a little blue loctite or beeswax to the bolts.

Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

On Tuesday, October 6, 2020 at 2:09:27 PM UTC-7, Sam Perez wrote:
>
> It's the original silver shifters , they were in storage and not used 
> untill now. The washers seem okay but I'll look into the new ones .
>
> On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 8:56 AM Jay Lonner > 
> wrote:
>
>> Are these OG Silvers or Silver Mk II? I several sets of the originals 
>> (and the the Suntour Sprints they were based on) and the weak point in the 
>> system is the little plastic washer that sits right under the bolt. If 
>> that’s cracked or missing you won’t be able to snug things down enough. 
>> Luckily Riv sells (or used to sell, haven’t checked recently) replacements 
>> that appear to be made of a more durable material. 
>>
>> Jay Lonner
>> Bellingham, WA
>>
>> Sent from my Atari 400
>>
>> On Oct 6, 2020, at 8:44 AM, Sam Perez > 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i 
>> tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with 
>> multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost 
>> shift under load.
>>
>> thanks
>>
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Sam Perez]

It's the original silver shifters , they were in storage and not used
untill now. The washers seem okay but I'll look into the new ones .

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020, 8:56 AM Jay Lonner  wrote:

> Are these OG Silvers or Silver Mk II? I several sets of the originals (and
> the the Suntour Sprints they were based on) and the weak point in the
> system is the little plastic washer that sits right under the bolt. If
> that’s cracked or missing you won’t be able to snug things down enough.
> Luckily Riv sells (or used to sell, haven’t checked recently) replacements
> that appear to be made of a more durable material.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Oct 6, 2020, at 8:44 AM, Sam Perez  wrote:
>
> 
> hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i
> tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with
> multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost
> shift under load.
>
> thanks
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> 
> .
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Jay Lonner]

Are these OG Silvers or Silver Mk II? I several sets of the originals (and the 
the Suntour Sprints they were based on) and the weak point in the system is the 
little plastic washer that sits right under the bolt. If that’s cracked or 
missing you won’t be able to snug things down enough. Luckily Riv sells (or 
used to sell, haven’t checked recently) replacements that appear to be made of 
a more durable material. 

Jay Lonner
Bellingham, WA

Sent from my Atari 400

> On Oct 6, 2020, at 8:44 AM, Sam Perez  wrote:
> 
> 
> hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i 
> tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with 
> multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost 
> shift under load.
> 
> thanks
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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[RBW] silver shifter slip under load

[Sam Perez]

hi guys, how do you keep your silver shifters form slipping under load, i
tighten the retention bolt but when i play with it it slowly loosens with
multiple shifts, i do lots of hills and need confidence that i wont ghost
shift under load.

thanks

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