Re: [RBW] ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

2023-06-13 Thread JohnS 
This thread is getting kind of long, so excuse me if this has already been 
mentioned, but has the derailleur cable and it's housing been replaced 
recently? Over time some dirt can build up and cause friction, which can 
cause poor shifting, especially for bar end shifters. Also, one time I had 
a cable strand come un-wound when I slid the cable into the short section 
of cable housing between the frame and the derailleur. That caused a lot of 
poor shifting until I replaced the cable. It wasn't obvious since the 
unwound cable strand was inside of the housing.

JohnS

On Tuesday, June 13, 2023 at 5:53:26 AM UTC-4 iamkeith wrote:

> If I understand correctly that the problems began iafter february, when 
> you had the cassette and chain replaced, I wonder if something was done 
> wrong or poorly, or even just different. For instance:  
>
> - Does the chain width (referred to by the number of rear sprockets it is 
> intended to work with) match the rest of drivetrain?  Including the 
> derailleurs (width of shift cage), chainrings (width of rings and spacing 
> between them) and cassette (number of cogs plus same width/spacing concerns 
> as with rings).  One of the benefits of friction shifting is that you can 
> usually get away with mixing and matching a bit.  For instance, a 9 speed 
> chain on rings spaced for an 8 speed era drivetrain, or a 10 speed 
> cassette.  Or a narrower 10 speed chain working on an otherwise all-9 speed 
> system.  Etc., etc.  But if you're not super comfortable with friction, 
> you're going to be better off if everything matches.  
>
> - is there a wobble in the cassette when the wheel is spinning?  Maybe it 
> got installed with some dirt behind it, or with the lockring not fully 
> secured?
>
> Otherwise, I agree with many of the above suggestions as place to start 
> and things to rule out, and that it doesn't strike me as a "shifter" issue 
> at all:  Hanger alignment; possibility that you're simply worn out the 
> chainrings or rear derailleur.  (The former woul appear as "shart-fin" 
> tooth profiles, and the latter would be evidenced by any play in the 
> mechanism if you try to wiggle it.)
>
> Lastly,  make sure your drive-side crank arm isn't working loose from the 
> bottom bracket spindle.
>
> On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 10:16:31 AM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:
>
>> Caroline,
>> If you recently had the chain and cassette replace, then your problems 
>> with the chain dropping may be because the chainring is worn. Most 
>> chainrings are aluminum, which wears faster than steel cogs. And since the 
>> same chainring is used for all riding while the cogs are changed by 
>> shifting, the wear is more concentrated on the chainring. Both of these 
>> lead to chainrings wiring out faster than cogs, and a worn chainring will 
>> not hold the chain securely. This can act in combination with problems 
>> others hav suggested here - especially bent detailer hanger and too-slack 
>> chain - to drop the chain off the chainring.
>> -Wes
>>
>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7 Caroline Golum wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks everyone! I had the chain + cassette replaced in February, both 
>>> new parts, so I'm assuming they both have plenty of life left. 
>>>
>>> The last mechanic I spoke with assured me the limits on my derailleur 
>>> were good. FWIW I've had the same Shimano 105 rear derailleur since I built 
>>> the bike in 2009. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:42:45 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>>>
 Did the derailleur service include verification that the derailleur 
 hanger is straight?

 Agree that it is unlikely to be a shifter issue.

 Laing

 On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:34:54 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:

> That sounds like an issue with chain retention and not the shifter. 
> Clutch RD ? New rings ? New chain ?
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 10:32 AM Caroline Golum  
> wrote:
>
>> Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps 
>> coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've 
>> had 
>> the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc. 
>>
>> Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 
>> 8/9spd in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2 
>> .  
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/665b64a1-dea4-47b8-8417-d2b1ce26392bn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

--

Re: [RBW] ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

2023-06-13 Thread iamkeith 
If I understand correctly that the problems began iafter february, when you 
had the cassette and chain replaced, I wonder if something was done wrong 
or poorly, or even just different. For instance:  

- Does the chain width (referred to by the number of rear sprockets it is 
intended to work with) match the rest of drivetrain?  Including the 
derailleurs (width of shift cage), chainrings (width of rings and spacing 
between them) and cassette (number of cogs plus same width/spacing concerns 
as with rings).  One of the benefits of friction shifting is that you can 
usually get away with mixing and matching a bit.  For instance, a 9 speed 
chain on rings spaced for an 8 speed era drivetrain, or a 10 speed 
cassette.  Or a narrower 10 speed chain working on an otherwise all-9 speed 
system.  Etc., etc.  But if you're not super comfortable with friction, 
you're going to be better off if everything matches.  

- is there a wobble in the cassette when the wheel is spinning?  Maybe it 
got installed with some dirt behind it, or with the lockring not fully 
secured?

Otherwise, I agree with many of the above suggestions as place to start and 
things to rule out, and that it doesn't strike me as a "shifter" issue at 
all:  Hanger alignment; possibility that you're simply worn out the 
chainrings or rear derailleur.  (The former woul appear as "shart-fin" 
tooth profiles, and the latter would be evidenced by any play in the 
mechanism if you try to wiggle it.)

Lastly,  make sure your drive-side crank arm isn't working loose from the 
bottom bracket spindle.

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 10:16:31 AM UTC-6 Wesley wrote:

> Caroline,
> If you recently had the chain and cassette replace, then your problems 
> with the chain dropping may be because the chainring is worn. Most 
> chainrings are aluminum, which wears faster than steel cogs. And since the 
> same chainring is used for all riding while the cogs are changed by 
> shifting, the wear is more concentrated on the chainring. Both of these 
> lead to chainrings wiring out faster than cogs, and a worn chainring will 
> not hold the chain securely. This can act in combination with problems 
> others hav suggested here - especially bent detailer hanger and too-slack 
> chain - to drop the chain off the chainring.
> -Wes
>
> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7 Caroline Golum wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone! I had the chain + cassette replaced in February, both 
>> new parts, so I'm assuming they both have plenty of life left. 
>>
>> The last mechanic I spoke with assured me the limits on my derailleur 
>> were good. FWIW I've had the same Shimano 105 rear derailleur since I built 
>> the bike in 2009. 
>>
>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:42:45 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> Did the derailleur service include verification that the derailleur 
>>> hanger is straight?
>>>
>>> Agree that it is unlikely to be a shifter issue.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:34:54 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 That sounds like an issue with chain retention and not the shifter. 
 Clutch RD ? New rings ? New chain ?

 On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 10:32 AM Caroline Golum  
 wrote:

> Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps 
> coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've 
> had 
> the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc. 
>
> Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 
> 8/9spd in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2 
> .  
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/665b64a1-dea4-47b8-8417-d2b1ce26392bn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>


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Re: [RBW] ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

2023-06-12 Thread KenP 
sometimes a chainring gets bumped and half bent out of alignment

On Friday, June 9, 2023 at 12:16:31 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:

> Caroline,
> If you recently had the chain and cassette replace, then your problems 
> with the chain dropping may be because the chainring is worn. Most 
> chainrings are aluminum, which wears faster than steel cogs. And since the 
> same chainring is used for all riding while the cogs are changed by 
> shifting, the wear is more concentrated on the chainring. Both of these 
> lead to chainrings wiring out faster than cogs, and a worn chainring will 
> not hold the chain securely. This can act in combination with problems 
> others hav suggested here - especially bent detailer hanger and too-slack 
> chain - to drop the chain off the chainring.
> -Wes
>
> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7 Caroline Golum wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone! I had the chain + cassette replaced in February, both 
>> new parts, so I'm assuming they both have plenty of life left. 
>>
>> The last mechanic I spoke with assured me the limits on my derailleur 
>> were good. FWIW I've had the same Shimano 105 rear derailleur since I built 
>> the bike in 2009. 
>>
>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:42:45 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> Did the derailleur service include verification that the derailleur 
>>> hanger is straight?
>>>
>>> Agree that it is unlikely to be a shifter issue.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:34:54 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 That sounds like an issue with chain retention and not the shifter. 
 Clutch RD ? New rings ? New chain ?

 On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 10:32 AM Caroline Golum  
 wrote:

> Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps 
> coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've 
> had 
> the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc. 
>
> Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 
> 8/9spd in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2 
> .  
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/665b64a1-dea4-47b8-8417-d2b1ce26392bn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>


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Re: [RBW] ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

2023-06-09 Thread Wesley 
Caroline,
If you recently had the chain and cassette replace, then your problems with 
the chain dropping may be because the chainring is worn. Most chainrings 
are aluminum, which wears faster than steel cogs. And since the same 
chainring is used for all riding while the cogs are changed by shifting, 
the wear is more concentrated on the chainring. Both of these lead to 
chainrings wiring out faster than cogs, and a worn chainring will not hold 
the chain securely. This can act in combination with problems others hav 
suggested here - especially bent detailer hanger and too-slack chain - to 
drop the chain off the chainring.
-Wes

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 10:53:07 AM UTC-7 Caroline Golum wrote:

> Thanks everyone! I had the chain + cassette replaced in February, both new 
> parts, so I'm assuming they both have plenty of life left. 
>
> The last mechanic I spoke with assured me the limits on my derailleur were 
> good. FWIW I've had the same Shimano 105 rear derailleur since I built the 
> bike in 2009. 
>
> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:42:45 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> Did the derailleur service include verification that the derailleur 
>> hanger is straight?
>>
>> Agree that it is unlikely to be a shifter issue.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:34:54 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> That sounds like an issue with chain retention and not the shifter. 
>>> Clutch RD ? New rings ? New chain ?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 10:32 AM Caroline Golum  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps 
 coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've had 
 the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc. 

 Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 
 8/9spd in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2 
 .  

 -- 
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 .

>>>

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Re: [RBW] ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

2023-06-08 Thread Caroline Golum 
Thanks Laing, appreciate it <3

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:58:22 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> I will take that as a no, the derailleur hanger was not checked. I would 
> make sure that the derailleur hanger was straight.
>
> Laing
>
> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:53:07 PM UTC-4 Caroline Golum wrote:
>
>> Thanks everyone! I had the chain + cassette replaced in February, both 
>> new parts, so I'm assuming they both have plenty of life left. 
>>
>> The last mechanic I spoke with assured me the limits on my derailleur 
>> were good. FWIW I've had the same Shimano 105 rear derailleur since I built 
>> the bike in 2009. 
>>
>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:42:45 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> Did the derailleur service include verification that the derailleur 
>>> hanger is straight?
>>>
>>> Agree that it is unlikely to be a shifter issue.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:34:54 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 That sounds like an issue with chain retention and not the shifter. 
 Clutch RD ? New rings ? New chain ?

 On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 10:32 AM Caroline Golum  
 wrote:

> Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps 
> coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've 
> had 
> the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc. 
>
> Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 
> 8/9spd in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2 
> .  
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/665b64a1-dea4-47b8-8417-d2b1ce26392bn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>


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Re: [RBW] ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

2023-06-08 Thread lconley 
I will take that as a no, the derailleur hanger was not checked. I would 
make sure that the derailleur hanger was straight.

Laing

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:53:07 PM UTC-4 Caroline Golum wrote:

> Thanks everyone! I had the chain + cassette replaced in February, both new 
> parts, so I'm assuming they both have plenty of life left. 
>
> The last mechanic I spoke with assured me the limits on my derailleur were 
> good. FWIW I've had the same Shimano 105 rear derailleur since I built the 
> bike in 2009. 
>
> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:42:45 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:
>
>> Did the derailleur service include verification that the derailleur 
>> hanger is straight?
>>
>> Agree that it is unlikely to be a shifter issue.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:34:54 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> That sounds like an issue with chain retention and not the shifter. 
>>> Clutch RD ? New rings ? New chain ?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 10:32 AM Caroline Golum  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps 
 coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've had 
 the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc. 

 Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 
 8/9spd in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2 
 .  

 -- 
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 .

>>>

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Re: [RBW] ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

2023-06-08 Thread Caroline Golum 
Thanks everyone! I had the chain + cassette replaced in February, both new 
parts, so I'm assuming they both have plenty of life left. 

The last mechanic I spoke with assured me the limits on my derailleur were 
good. FWIW I've had the same Shimano 105 rear derailleur since I built the 
bike in 2009. 

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:42:45 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> Did the derailleur service include verification that the derailleur hanger 
> is straight?
>
> Agree that it is unlikely to be a shifter issue.
>
> Laing
>
> On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:34:54 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> That sounds like an issue with chain retention and not the shifter. 
>> Clutch RD ? New rings ? New chain ?
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 10:32 AM Caroline Golum  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps 
>>> coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've had 
>>> the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc. 
>>>
>>> Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 
>>> 8/9spd in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2 
>>> .  
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/665b64a1-dea4-47b8-8417-d2b1ce26392bn%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

2023-06-08 Thread lconley 
Did the derailleur service include verification that the derailleur hanger 
is straight?

Agree that it is unlikely to be a shifter issue.

Laing

On Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 1:34:54 PM UTC-4 eliot...@gmail.com wrote:

> That sounds like an issue with chain retention and not the shifter. Clutch 
> RD ? New rings ? New chain ?
>
> On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 10:32 AM Caroline Golum  
> wrote:
>
>> Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps 
>> coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've had 
>> the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc. 
>>
>> Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 
>> 8/9spd in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2 
>> .  
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/665b64a1-dea4-47b8-8417-d2b1ce26392bn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] ISO Better Bar-End Friction Shifting!

2023-06-08 Thread Eliot Balogh 
That sounds like an issue with chain retention and not the shifter. Clutch
RD ? New rings ? New chain ?

On Thu, Jun 8, 2023 at 10:32 AM Caroline Golum 
wrote:

> Currently running 1x10 and friction bar-end shifting. The chain keeps
> coming off my crank, not hitting the right gear in the rear, etc. I've had
> the derailleur serviced, it's fine, etc.
>
> Time to get a new shifter? Switch to indexed shifting? Switch to an 8/9spd
> in the rear? The bar-end shifter is RBW's Shifter - Silver2
> .
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>

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