Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Donzaemon]

Thanks for the suggestion, Joe. I didn’t know that’s how Shimano designed 
the trigger shifters for my derailleur. I’ve been using the same approach 
to shifting as I do with the 1x 12 speed drivetrain on my other bike. Looks 
like I’m likely going about it the wrong way. If that doesn’t work out, 
I’ll swap the m960 with an m952 and see if that improves things. 

As for your m3020 suggestion, I considered it when I was first speccing out 
this build. I ended up choosing aesthetics over function because I’m silly 
like that. 

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 10:57:34 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Don, 
>
> You might try overshifting a bit in the cogs that are giving you trouble, 
> that's actually how Shimano designed the index-shifting in the trigger 
> shifters for your derailleur: Give the thumbie a proper shove - almost like 
> you're planning to skip over a cog - then pull back a smidge to drop the 
> chain full center on the cog you want. This should help a bit but I think 
> you are correct that you're experiencing a bit of rumbling and grumbling 
> from the chain because the road link has placed the derailleur further from 
> the smaller cogs than intended. 
>
> Speaking of the chain, if it's new you may just need to run it in a bit. 
> New chains are always a little grumbly and finicky for me on the first few 
> rides. 
>
> Joe "this may not make sense and I may be completely wrong" Bernard 
>
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 1:24:48 AM UTC-8 Donzaemon wrote:
>
>> Joe, I'm using Silver2 friction shifters with thumbshifter mounts.  Same 
>> as this:
>>
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/cdn/shop/products/stemshiftersilverclose-7_750x.jpg
>> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 12:39:55 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Don, 
>>>
>>> What shifters are you using? Are they index or friction? 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 6:03:50 PM UTC-8 Donzaemon wrote:
>>>
 So I'm about a couple weeks into owning my Homer, which I'm loving so 
 far. Its use has been limited to pavement save for a short segment of dirt 
 trail that connects official segments of SF Bay Trail in Alameda, CA. I've 
 made a couple of observations so far:

 *Cockpit*
 I enjoy the relaxed upright position that the Billie Bars provide. It's 
 done wonders keeping me comfortable and has not made any of my existing 
 neck and lower back issues worse. That said, it feels a little awkward to 
 make u-turns or any other decent turns at lower speed. While I don't 
 intend 
 on taking this bike on the many singletrack trails that make up a large 
 portion of the natural surface trails in the SF Bay, I would like to take 
 it on gravel climbs when and if possible. I realize I can use the 
 positions 
 directly in front of the brake levers on the Billie Bars, but I'm not sure 
 if that'll provide the lever control that I'm looking for. 

 I'm thinking about switching to wide-ish drop bars with some flare. I'm 
 using Ritchey Corralitos (480mm) bars on my Ascent and I love them. I'd 
 get 
 a pair for the Homer if they were available in silver. I'm intrigued by 
 the 
 Crust Towel Rack, but I'm afraid they'd be a little on the wide side for 
 me. Rune Bicycles is on the verge of releasing their Hilt Bars that hits 
 pretty much all my checkboxes so I may opt for those when they're 
 released. 
 For those of you who do similar mixed-terrain rides with your Homers, what 
 are your handlebar preference, and why?

 *Drivetrain*
 For my first build, I went with a 42/28 double with a 11-40 8sp 
 cassette. I'm controlling the derailleurs (ultegra front and xtr rd-m960 
 rear with roadlink) with thumbies and love them. That said, shifting 
 hasn't 
 been what I had hoped. I find the shifts to be sloppy when shifting the 
 range of cogs in the middle of the cassette. I'm not sure if I'm 
 describing 
 this correctly, but the gears sometimes slip during shifting resulting in 
 two "clunks" before fully engaging. Also, the gears don't feel smooth 
 between the middle to smallest cogs. Could this be due to the roadlink? I 
 like the range of the 11-40 cassette and it's been nice using the big cog 
 on climbs when needed so I'd prefer not to get rid of the roadlink and 
 switch to an 11-34 cassette. I have an XTR RD-M952 I can try out instead? 
 For those of you with similar gearing, what components have you settled on 
 to get flawless shifting?

 Thanks, in advance, for the feedback!

 -Don
 On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:12:11 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Bill, I will be keeping an eye out for you on Mt. Diablo so I can give 
> you a thumbs up when you pass me! 
>
> Sarah
>
> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 5:16:41 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> A couple weeks back I said:
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Joe Bernard]

Don, 

You might try overshifting a bit in the cogs that are giving you trouble, 
that's actually how Shimano designed the index-shifting in the trigger 
shifters for your derailleur: Give the thumbie a proper shove - almost like 
you're planning to skip over a cog - then pull back a smidge to drop the 
chain full center on the cog you want. This should help a bit but I think 
you are correct that you're experiencing a bit of rumbling and grumbling 
from the chain because the road link has placed the derailleur further from 
the smaller cogs than intended. 

Speaking of the chain, if it's new you may just need to run it in a bit. 
New chains are always a little grumbly and finicky for me on the first few 
rides. 

Joe "this may not make sense and I may be completely wrong" Bernard 

On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 1:24:48 AM UTC-8 Donzaemon wrote:

> Joe, I'm using Silver2 friction shifters with thumbshifter mounts.  Same 
> as this:
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/cdn/shop/products/stemshiftersilverclose-7_750x.jpg
> On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 12:39:55 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Don, 
>>
>> What shifters are you using? Are they index or friction? 
>>
>> Joe Bernard 
>>
>> On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 6:03:50 PM UTC-8 Donzaemon wrote:
>>
>>> So I'm about a couple weeks into owning my Homer, which I'm loving so 
>>> far. Its use has been limited to pavement save for a short segment of dirt 
>>> trail that connects official segments of SF Bay Trail in Alameda, CA. I've 
>>> made a couple of observations so far:
>>>
>>> *Cockpit*
>>> I enjoy the relaxed upright position that the Billie Bars provide. It's 
>>> done wonders keeping me comfortable and has not made any of my existing 
>>> neck and lower back issues worse. That said, it feels a little awkward to 
>>> make u-turns or any other decent turns at lower speed. While I don't intend 
>>> on taking this bike on the many singletrack trails that make up a large 
>>> portion of the natural surface trails in the SF Bay, I would like to take 
>>> it on gravel climbs when and if possible. I realize I can use the positions 
>>> directly in front of the brake levers on the Billie Bars, but I'm not sure 
>>> if that'll provide the lever control that I'm looking for. 
>>>
>>> I'm thinking about switching to wide-ish drop bars with some flare. I'm 
>>> using Ritchey Corralitos (480mm) bars on my Ascent and I love them. I'd get 
>>> a pair for the Homer if they were available in silver. I'm intrigued by the 
>>> Crust Towel Rack, but I'm afraid they'd be a little on the wide side for 
>>> me. Rune Bicycles is on the verge of releasing their Hilt Bars that hits 
>>> pretty much all my checkboxes so I may opt for those when they're released. 
>>> For those of you who do similar mixed-terrain rides with your Homers, what 
>>> are your handlebar preference, and why?
>>>
>>> *Drivetrain*
>>> For my first build, I went with a 42/28 double with a 11-40 8sp 
>>> cassette. I'm controlling the derailleurs (ultegra front and xtr rd-m960 
>>> rear with roadlink) with thumbies and love them. That said, shifting hasn't 
>>> been what I had hoped. I find the shifts to be sloppy when shifting the 
>>> range of cogs in the middle of the cassette. I'm not sure if I'm describing 
>>> this correctly, but the gears sometimes slip during shifting resulting in 
>>> two "clunks" before fully engaging. Also, the gears don't feel smooth 
>>> between the middle to smallest cogs. Could this be due to the roadlink? I 
>>> like the range of the 11-40 cassette and it's been nice using the big cog 
>>> on climbs when needed so I'd prefer not to get rid of the roadlink and 
>>> switch to an 11-34 cassette. I have an XTR RD-M952 I can try out instead? 
>>> For those of you with similar gearing, what components have you settled on 
>>> to get flawless shifting?
>>>
>>> Thanks, in advance, for the feedback!
>>>
>>> -Don
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:12:11 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Bill, I will be keeping an eye out for you on Mt. Diablo so I can give 
 you a thumbs up when you pass me! 

 Sarah

 On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 5:16:41 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> A couple weeks back I said:
>
> "The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit 
> #6 
> will be on a derailleurless bike."
>
> When I state a goal, I feel committed, even if the RBW Group isn't 
> expending energy to hold me accountable, there is accountability when I 
> type it out.  Anyhow, I got a start on the above today with my first 
> summit 
> of Mount Diablo for 2024.  I did it on my current stripped down road 
> bike, 
> my Black Mountain Cycles Road.  I 

Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Toshi Takeuchi]

The smallest ring available (to my knowledge) for a road triple crank is a
24.  A mountain crank has a 22. You should be able to grab a 44-32-22 if
desired.  If you go for a vintage crank you might be able to find a silver
one.  Most of them seem to be black.

Toshi in Oakland

On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 6:11 AM Sarah Carlson 
wrote:

> Luke, I am bookmarking your gearing because that does sound perfect for
> the hills situation around here. Through practice I have learned my
> favorite gear is 34 (from riding my Atlantis) and that going down hills I
> am still spinning out in a 42 on my Platypus. That 22 sounds like a lovely
> gear to approach a hill in. You may see me try that out! I'm waiting until
> closer to build time to make the final decision... but more and more I am
> feeling pulled in the triple direction!
>
> Sarah
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Donzaemon]

Joe, I'm using Silver2 friction shifters with thumbshifter mounts.  Same as 
this:

https://www.rivbike.com/cdn/shop/products/stemshiftersilverclose-7_750x.jpg
On Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 12:39:55 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Don, 
>
> What shifters are you using? Are they index or friction? 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 6:03:50 PM UTC-8 Donzaemon wrote:
>
>> So I'm about a couple weeks into owning my Homer, which I'm loving so 
>> far. Its use has been limited to pavement save for a short segment of dirt 
>> trail that connects official segments of SF Bay Trail in Alameda, CA. I've 
>> made a couple of observations so far:
>>
>> *Cockpit*
>> I enjoy the relaxed upright position that the Billie Bars provide. It's 
>> done wonders keeping me comfortable and has not made any of my existing 
>> neck and lower back issues worse. That said, it feels a little awkward to 
>> make u-turns or any other decent turns at lower speed. While I don't intend 
>> on taking this bike on the many singletrack trails that make up a large 
>> portion of the natural surface trails in the SF Bay, I would like to take 
>> it on gravel climbs when and if possible. I realize I can use the positions 
>> directly in front of the brake levers on the Billie Bars, but I'm not sure 
>> if that'll provide the lever control that I'm looking for. 
>>
>> I'm thinking about switching to wide-ish drop bars with some flare. I'm 
>> using Ritchey Corralitos (480mm) bars on my Ascent and I love them. I'd get 
>> a pair for the Homer if they were available in silver. I'm intrigued by the 
>> Crust Towel Rack, but I'm afraid they'd be a little on the wide side for 
>> me. Rune Bicycles is on the verge of releasing their Hilt Bars that hits 
>> pretty much all my checkboxes so I may opt for those when they're released. 
>> For those of you who do similar mixed-terrain rides with your Homers, what 
>> are your handlebar preference, and why?
>>
>> *Drivetrain*
>> For my first build, I went with a 42/28 double with a 11-40 8sp cassette. 
>> I'm controlling the derailleurs (ultegra front and xtr rd-m960 rear with 
>> roadlink) with thumbies and love them. That said, shifting hasn't been what 
>> I had hoped. I find the shifts to be sloppy when shifting the range of cogs 
>> in the middle of the cassette. I'm not sure if I'm describing this 
>> correctly, but the gears sometimes slip during shifting resulting in two 
>> "clunks" before fully engaging. Also, the gears don't feel smooth between 
>> the middle to smallest cogs. Could this be due to the roadlink? I like the 
>> range of the 11-40 cassette and it's been nice using the big cog on climbs 
>> when needed so I'd prefer not to get rid of the roadlink and switch to an 
>> 11-34 cassette. I have an XTR RD-M952 I can try out instead? For those of 
>> you with similar gearing, what components have you settled on to get 
>> flawless shifting?
>>
>> Thanks, in advance, for the feedback!
>>
>> -Don
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:12:11 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill, I will be keeping an eye out for you on Mt. Diablo so I can give 
>>> you a thumbs up when you pass me! 
>>>
>>> Sarah
>>>
>>> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 5:16:41 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 A couple weeks back I said:

 "The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
 Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
 going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
 do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
 will be on a derailleurless bike."

 When I state a goal, I feel committed, even if the RBW Group isn't 
 expending energy to hold me accountable, there is accountability when I 
 type it out.  Anyhow, I got a start on the above today with my first 
 summit 
 of Mount Diablo for 2024.  I did it on my current stripped down road bike, 
 my Black Mountain Cycles Road.  I picked today to avoid the pockets of 
 rain 
 that are hitting us with some regularity.  It was sunny and cool, but not 
 cold.  One down, four to go.  Highlights included a rider on a 2TT 
 Hillborne with Albatross bars.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

 On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
> paths have crossed lately.  
>
> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the 
> filmmaker.  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>
> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
> do it on 5 

Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Joe Bernard]

Don, 

What shifters are you using? Are they index or friction? 

Joe Bernard 

On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 6:03:50 PM UTC-8 Donzaemon wrote:

> So I'm about a couple weeks into owning my Homer, which I'm loving so far. 
> Its use has been limited to pavement save for a short segment of dirt trail 
> that connects official segments of SF Bay Trail in Alameda, CA. I've made a 
> couple of observations so far:
>
> *Cockpit*
> I enjoy the relaxed upright position that the Billie Bars provide. It's 
> done wonders keeping me comfortable and has not made any of my existing 
> neck and lower back issues worse. That said, it feels a little awkward to 
> make u-turns or any other decent turns at lower speed. While I don't intend 
> on taking this bike on the many singletrack trails that make up a large 
> portion of the natural surface trails in the SF Bay, I would like to take 
> it on gravel climbs when and if possible. I realize I can use the positions 
> directly in front of the brake levers on the Billie Bars, but I'm not sure 
> if that'll provide the lever control that I'm looking for. 
>
> I'm thinking about switching to wide-ish drop bars with some flare. I'm 
> using Ritchey Corralitos (480mm) bars on my Ascent and I love them. I'd get 
> a pair for the Homer if they were available in silver. I'm intrigued by the 
> Crust Towel Rack, but I'm afraid they'd be a little on the wide side for 
> me. Rune Bicycles is on the verge of releasing their Hilt Bars that hits 
> pretty much all my checkboxes so I may opt for those when they're released. 
> For those of you who do similar mixed-terrain rides with your Homers, what 
> are your handlebar preference, and why?
>
> *Drivetrain*
> For my first build, I went with a 42/28 double with a 11-40 8sp cassette. 
> I'm controlling the derailleurs (ultegra front and xtr rd-m960 rear with 
> roadlink) with thumbies and love them. That said, shifting hasn't been what 
> I had hoped. I find the shifts to be sloppy when shifting the range of cogs 
> in the middle of the cassette. I'm not sure if I'm describing this 
> correctly, but the gears sometimes slip during shifting resulting in two 
> "clunks" before fully engaging. Also, the gears don't feel smooth between 
> the middle to smallest cogs. Could this be due to the roadlink? I like the 
> range of the 11-40 cassette and it's been nice using the big cog on climbs 
> when needed so I'd prefer not to get rid of the roadlink and switch to an 
> 11-34 cassette. I have an XTR RD-M952 I can try out instead? For those of 
> you with similar gearing, what components have you settled on to get 
> flawless shifting?
>
> Thanks, in advance, for the feedback!
>
> -Don
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:12:11 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Bill, I will be keeping an eye out for you on Mt. Diablo so I can give 
>> you a thumbs up when you pass me! 
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 5:16:41 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> A couple weeks back I said:
>>>
>>> "The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
>>> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
>>> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
>>> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
>>> will be on a derailleurless bike."
>>>
>>> When I state a goal, I feel committed, even if the RBW Group isn't 
>>> expending energy to hold me accountable, there is accountability when I 
>>> type it out.  Anyhow, I got a start on the above today with my first summit 
>>> of Mount Diablo for 2024.  I did it on my current stripped down road bike, 
>>> my Black Mountain Cycles Road.  I picked today to avoid the pockets of rain 
>>> that are hitting us with some regularity.  It was sunny and cool, but not 
>>> cold.  One down, four to go.  Highlights included a rider on a 2TT 
>>> Hillborne with Albatross bars.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
 across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
 paths have crossed lately.  

 She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the 
 filmmaker.  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  

 The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
 Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
 going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
 do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
 will be on a derailleurless bike.  

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA
 On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry
>
> I found a 

Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Donzaemon]

So I'm about a couple weeks into owning my Homer, which I'm loving so far. 
Its use has been limited to pavement save for a short segment of dirt trail 
that connects official segments of SF Bay Trail in Alameda, CA. I've made a 
couple of observations so far:

*Cockpit*
I enjoy the relaxed upright position that the Billie Bars provide. It's 
done wonders keeping me comfortable and has not made any of my existing 
neck and lower back issues worse. That said, it feels a little awkward to 
make u-turns or any other decent turns at lower speed. While I don't intend 
on taking this bike on the many singletrack trails that make up a large 
portion of the natural surface trails in the SF Bay, I would like to take 
it on gravel climbs when and if possible. I realize I can use the positions 
directly in front of the brake levers on the Billie Bars, but I'm not sure 
if that'll provide the lever control that I'm looking for. 

I'm thinking about switching to wide-ish drop bars with some flare. I'm 
using Ritchey Corralitos (480mm) bars on my Ascent and I love them. I'd get 
a pair for the Homer if they were available in silver. I'm intrigued by the 
Crust Towel Rack, but I'm afraid they'd be a little on the wide side for 
me. Rune Bicycles is on the verge of releasing their Hilt Bars that hits 
pretty much all my checkboxes so I may opt for those when they're released. 
For those of you who do similar mixed-terrain rides with your Homers, what 
are your handlebar preference, and why?

*Drivetrain*
For my first build, I went with a 42/28 double with a 11-40 8sp cassette. 
I'm controlling the derailleurs (ultegra front and xtr rd-m960 rear with 
roadlink) with thumbies and love them. That said, shifting hasn't been what 
I had hoped. I find the shifts to be sloppy when shifting the range of cogs 
in the middle of the cassette. I'm not sure if I'm describing this 
correctly, but the gears sometimes slip during shifting resulting in two 
"clunks" before fully engaging. Also, the gears don't feel smooth between 
the middle to smallest cogs. Could this be due to the roadlink? I like the 
range of the 11-40 cassette and it's been nice using the big cog on climbs 
when needed so I'd prefer not to get rid of the roadlink and switch to an 
11-34 cassette. I have an XTR RD-M952 I can try out instead? For those of 
you with similar gearing, what components have you settled on to get 
flawless shifting?

Thanks, in advance, for the feedback!

-Don
On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:12:11 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com wrote:

> Bill, I will be keeping an eye out for you on Mt. Diablo so I can give you 
> a thumbs up when you pass me! 
>
> Sarah
>
> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 5:16:41 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> A couple weeks back I said:
>>
>> "The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
>> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
>> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
>> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
>> will be on a derailleurless bike."
>>
>> When I state a goal, I feel committed, even if the RBW Group isn't 
>> expending energy to hold me accountable, there is accountability when I 
>> type it out.  Anyhow, I got a start on the above today with my first summit 
>> of Mount Diablo for 2024.  I did it on my current stripped down road bike, 
>> my Black Mountain Cycles Road.  I picked today to avoid the pockets of rain 
>> that are hitting us with some regularity.  It was sunny and cool, but not 
>> cold.  One down, four to go.  Highlights included a rider on a 2TT 
>> Hillborne with Albatross bars.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
>>> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
>>> paths have crossed lately.  
>>>
>>> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
>>>  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>>>
>>> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
>>> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
>>> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
>>> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
>>> will be on a derailleurless bike.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry

 I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 

 On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:

> All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
> all the help. Thank you!
>
> On Thursday, November 

Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Sarah Carlson]

Bill, I will be keeping an eye out for you on Mt. Diablo so I can give you 
a thumbs up when you pass me! 

Sarah

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 5:16:41 PM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> A couple weeks back I said:
>
> "The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
> will be on a derailleurless bike."
>
> When I state a goal, I feel committed, even if the RBW Group isn't 
> expending energy to hold me accountable, there is accountability when I 
> type it out.  Anyhow, I got a start on the above today with my first summit 
> of Mount Diablo for 2024.  I did it on my current stripped down road bike, 
> my Black Mountain Cycles Road.  I picked today to avoid the pockets of rain 
> that are hitting us with some regularity.  It was sunny and cool, but not 
> cold.  One down, four to go.  Highlights included a rider on a 2TT 
> Hillborne with Albatross bars.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
>> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
>> paths have crossed lately.  
>>
>> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
>>  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>>
>> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
>> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
>> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
>> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
>> will be on a derailleurless bike.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry
>>>
>>> I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:
>>>
 All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
 all the help. Thank you!

 On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
>> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
>> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs 
>> ride 
>> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
>> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
>> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. 
>> On 
>> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% 
>> grade, 
>> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
>> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
>> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you 
>> can 
>> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>>
>>> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
>>> list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding 
>>> on 
>>> these roads.  
>>>
>>> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, 
>>> with what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for 
>>> dirt), and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or 
>>> even a 28 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But 
>>> as 
>>> mentioned already, only you know what works for you.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Sarah Carlson]

Luke, I am bookmarking your gearing because that does sound perfect for the 
hills situation around here. Through practice I have learned my favorite 
gear is 34 (from riding my Atlantis) and that going down hills I am still 
spinning out in a 42 on my Platypus. That 22 sounds like a lovely gear to 
approach a hill in. You may see me try that out! I'm waiting until closer 
to build time to make the final decision... but more and more I am feeling 
pulled in the triple direction!

Sarah

On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 10:06:09 AM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> I live in the Bay Area (San Francisco) and my daily commute has around 
> 2,500 feet in elevation gain with weekend rides often having double that. I 
> really, really like 46-34-22 on my Atlantis with an 11-34 8s in the back. I 
> just switched to a Rapid Rise rd and that’s been a treat when going from 
> descent to climb to descent.
>
> A lot of great input and advice in here along with some very strong 
> opinions. Love it!
>
> Luke in SF who works at Merry Sales and loves bikes more than he should
>
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 9:09:46 AM UTC-8 weste...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Bill, 
>>
>> This makes me wonder if there's a Rohloff-equipped bike in your stable! 
>>  ;) 
>>
>> Julian Westerhout
>> Bloomington, IL 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 10:48:53 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
>>> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
>>> paths have crossed lately.  
>>>
>>> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
>>>  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>>>
>>> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
>>> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
>>> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
>>> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
>>> will be on a derailleurless bike.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry

 I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 

 On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:

> All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
> all the help. Thank you!
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 
>>
>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
>>> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
>>> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs 
>>> ride 
>>> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
>>> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
>>> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. 
>>> On 
>>> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% 
>>> grade, 
>>> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
>>> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in 
>>> the 
>>> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you 
>>> can 
>>> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>>>
 @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
 list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding 
 on 
 these roads.  

 For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, 
 with what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for 
 dirt), and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 
 or 
 even a 28 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  
 But as 
 mentioned already, only you know what works for you.

 Greg



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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Jason Fuller]

Nice work, Bill! Maybe it's high time for a 2024 plans and goals thread. 
I'm not so much about the resolutions, but working towards some healthy and 
joyful goals is a great thing.  

On Thursday 4 January 2024 at 17:16:41 UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> A couple weeks back I said:
>
> "The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
> will be on a derailleurless bike."
>
> When I state a goal, I feel committed, even if the RBW Group isn't 
> expending energy to hold me accountable, there is accountability when I 
> type it out.  Anyhow, I got a start on the above today with my first summit 
> of Mount Diablo for 2024.  I did it on my current stripped down road bike, 
> my Black Mountain Cycles Road.  I picked today to avoid the pockets of rain 
> that are hitting us with some regularity.  It was sunny and cool, but not 
> cold.  One down, four to go.  Highlights included a rider on a 2TT 
> Hillborne with Albatross bars.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
>> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
>> paths have crossed lately.  
>>
>> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
>>  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>>
>> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
>> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
>> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
>> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
>> will be on a derailleurless bike.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry
>>>
>>> I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:
>>>
 All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
 all the help. Thank you!

 On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
>> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
>> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs 
>> ride 
>> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
>> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
>> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. 
>> On 
>> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% 
>> grade, 
>> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
>> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
>> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you 
>> can 
>> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>>
>>> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
>>> list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding 
>>> on 
>>> these roads.  
>>>
>>> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, 
>>> with what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for 
>>> dirt), and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or 
>>> even a 28 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But 
>>> as 
>>> mentioned already, only you know what works for you.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Bill Lindsay]

A couple weeks back I said:

"The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
will be on a derailleurless bike."

When I state a goal, I feel committed, even if the RBW Group isn't 
expending energy to hold me accountable, there is accountability when I 
type it out.  Anyhow, I got a start on the above today with my first summit 
of Mount Diablo for 2024.  I did it on my current stripped down road bike, 
my Black Mountain Cycles Road.  I picked today to avoid the pockets of rain 
that are hitting us with some regularity.  It was sunny and cool, but not 
cold.  One down, four to go.  Highlights included a rider on a 2TT 
Hillborne with Albatross bars.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
> paths have crossed lately.  
>
> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
>  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>
> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
> will be on a derailleurless bike.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry
>>
>> I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 
>>
>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:
>>
>>> All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
>>> all the help. Thank you!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 

 On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs 
> ride 
> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. On 
> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% grade, 
> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you can 
> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>
>> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
>> list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding on 
>> these roads.  
>>
>> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, 
>> with what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for 
>> dirt), and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or 
>> even a 28 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But 
>> as 
>> mentioned already, only you know what works for you.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Sarah Carlson]

Bill, I have been trying to get my friend to try Mt. Diablo with me and we 
got an accidental chance to on a group ride a few weeks ago. It was 
advertised as a flat 28 mile ride but the leader somehow got lost and took 
us up Mt. Diablo. (The group turned around and my friend and I continued 
until I realized I would be late for my hair appointment if we went all the 
way up). It was actually that ride that inspired me to build a bike with a 
better gear range for hills. So maybe a Summit goal is in order!

I used to ride up it in High School... but I'm finding a lot of rides feel 
different now. 

Sarah

On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 8:48:53 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
> paths have crossed lately.  
>
> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
>  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>
> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
> will be on a derailleurless bike.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry
>>
>> I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 
>>
>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:
>>
>>> All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
>>> all the help. Thank you!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 

 On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs 
> ride 
> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. On 
> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% grade, 
> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you can 
> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>
>> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
>> list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding on 
>> these roads.  
>>
>> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, 
>> with what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for 
>> dirt), and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or 
>> even a 28 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But 
>> as 
>> mentioned already, only you know what works for you.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Bill Lindsay]

Julian

There is not a Rohloff-equipped bike in my stable.  There are several 
derailleur less multi-speed single speeds in my stable.  

Bill

On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 9:09:46 AM UTC-8 weste...@gmail.com wrote:

> Bill, 
>
> This makes me wonder if there's a Rohloff-equipped bike in your stable! 
>  ;) 
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, IL 
>
>
>
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 10:48:53 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
>> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
>> paths have crossed lately.  
>>
>> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
>>  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>>
>> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
>> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
>> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
>> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
>> will be on a derailleurless bike.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry
>>>
>>> I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:
>>>
 All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
 all the help. Thank you!

 On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
>> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
>> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs 
>> ride 
>> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
>> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
>> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. 
>> On 
>> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% 
>> grade, 
>> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
>> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
>> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you 
>> can 
>> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>>
>>> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
>>> list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding 
>>> on 
>>> these roads.  
>>>
>>> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, 
>>> with what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for 
>>> dirt), and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or 
>>> even a 28 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But 
>>> as 
>>> mentioned already, only you know what works for you.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Julian Westerhout]

Bill, 

This makes me wonder if there's a Rohloff-equipped bike in your stable!  ;) 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, IL 



On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 10:48:53 AM UTC-6 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run 
> across her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our 
> paths have crossed lately.  
>
> She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
>  Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  
>
> The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited 
> Diablo maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm 
> going to start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to 
> do it on 5 different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 
> will be on a derailleurless bike.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
> On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry
>>
>> I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 
>>
>> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:
>>
>>> All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
>>> all the help. Thank you!
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 

 On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs 
> ride 
> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. On 
> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% grade, 
> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you can 
> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>
>> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
>> list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding on 
>> these roads.  
>>
>> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, 
>> with what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for 
>> dirt), and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or 
>> even a 28 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But 
>> as 
>> mentioned already, only you know what works for you.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Bill Lindsay]

Therese is a delightful person and a very good rider.  I used to run across 
her a lot in the East Bay and at SFR events, but I don't think our paths 
have crossed lately.  

She's also a fair bit more enlightened about gearing than the filmmaker. 
 Her set up isn't perfect, but it's close (IMHO).  

The film makes me want to set a Diablo goal for 2024.  I've summited Diablo 
maybe 10 times, but I want to do multiple summits this year.  I'm going to 
start with 5 as my goal, with the extra challenge that I want to do it on 5 
different bikes in my stable.  If I manage that, then summit #6 will be on 
a derailleurless bike.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA
On Friday, December 22, 2023 at 7:53:19 AM UTC-8 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry
>
> I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 
>
> On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:
>
>> All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate 
>> all the help. Thank you!
>>
>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
 lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
 frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs ride 
 as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
 especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
 still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. On 
 my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% grade, 
 which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
 order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
 greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you can 
 never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!

 On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:

> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
> list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding on 
> these roads.  
>
> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, 
> with what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for 
> dirt), and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or 
> even a 28 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But 
> as 
> mentioned already, only you know what works for you.
>
> Greg
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Sarah Carlson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed2-hdvGWjU_channel=Henrywildeberry

I found a youtube video that is exactly how I want to ride 

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 5:04:42 AM UTC-8 Sarah Carlson wrote:

> All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate all 
> the help. Thank you!
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 
>>
>> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
>>> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
>>> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs ride 
>>> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
>>> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
>>> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. On 
>>> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% grade, 
>>> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
>>> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
>>> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you can 
>>> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>>>
 @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local 
 list members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding on 
 these roads.  

 For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, with 
 what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for dirt), 
 and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or even a 28 
 may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But as mentioned 
 already, only you know what works for you.

 Greg



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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Sarah Carlson]

All these responses have given me so much to think about, I appreciate all 
the help. Thank you!

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 7:01:05 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 
>
> On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
>> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
>> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs ride 
>> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
>> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
>> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. On 
>> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% grade, 
>> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
>> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
>> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you can 
>> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>>
>>> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local list 
>>> members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding on these 
>>> roads.  
>>>
>>> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, with 
>>> what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for dirt), 
>>> and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or even a 28 
>>> may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But as mentioned 
>>> already, only you know what works for you.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Joe Bernard]

My low on a 650B bike in Lake County, CA., is 26 x 50. It's useful! 

On Thursday, November 30, 2023 at 1:25:54 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah 
> lives). Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) 
> frequently drop their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs ride 
> as a matter of course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, 
> especially if you're carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and 
> still couldn't climb anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. On 
> my single bike I have a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% grade, 
> which required shifting my weight between the rear and front wheels in 
> order to keep both wheels on the ground while grinding away. Here in the 
> greater San Francisco Bay Area, your bike can never be too light, you can 
> never be too wealthy, and you can never have gears too low!
>
> On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:
>
>> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local list 
>> members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding on these 
>> roads.  
>>
>> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, with 
>> what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for dirt), 
>> and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or even a 28 
>> may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But as mentioned 
>> already, only you know what works for you.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[藍俊彪]

The Greater Bay Area is full of 13-24% grades (which is where Sarah lives).
Visitors from other areas (including places like Colorado) frequently drop
their jaws when they see what the local touring clubs ride as a matter of
course. A 24x36 drivetrain isn't too low a gear here, especially if you're
carrying a load. On my triplet, I had a 24x36 and still couldn't climb
anything over a 12% grade when carrying panniers. On my single bike I have
a 40x51, and just manage to make it up a 30% grade, which required shifting
my weight between the rear and front wheels in order to keep both wheels on
the ground while grinding away. Here in the greater San Francisco Bay Area,
your bike can never be too light, you can never be too wealthy, and you can
never have gears too low!

On Thu, Nov 30, 2023 at 1:13 PM Greg J  wrote:

> @Sarah - maybe the easiest thing is to go on a ride with some local list
> members who can give you some ideas while you're actually riding on these
> roads.
>
> For example, have you ridden a 24T granny on the road---and if so, with
> what rear cog?  A 24 is really very low for the road (but not for dirt),
> and a 24T - 32 in the back may be too low to be useful.  A 26 or even a 28
> may be a better granny depending on your cassette range.  But as mentioned
> already, only you know what works for you.
>
> Greg
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Sarah Carlson]

Thank you for bringing up the redundant gears... in my brain I'm telling 
myself maybe it's overkill... but is it really such a terrible thing?

On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 5:27:48 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> You bring up a good point Ted about so-called redundant gears, which is 
> something many cyclists try to eliminate as much as possible to their own 
> practical detriment. It's better to approach planning a drivetrain by 
> identifying how low you want your low gear to be, how high you want your 
> high gear to be, and then finding the most user-friendly combination to get 
> there. A big issue with wide-range doubles is that you'll find that you 
> need to drop into the small ring for every hill, whereas if you have a 
> triple, you can generally stay in the middle ring most of the time and save 
> a lot of front shifts, even though you have more rings up there. 
>
> For me, I find I don't need anything above about 95 gear inches - above 
> that and I'm going to coast, maybe tuck in and get aero. Maybe 100 tops. On 
> the low end, if it's used off-road or to carry loads I'll want something in 
> the 18-20 gear inch range, but if it's a roadish bike, 24-25 inches is 
> good. So what I tend to do is run a double but size the rings such that I 
> truncate the big gears I'll almost never use, so that I can run a big ring 
> on the double that I can stay in on gentle climbs. 40/28 to 11-34 is a 
> great combo, for instance. Even 38/26 to 11-28 to get some smaller steps on 
> the back, and 38-11 is a big enough top gear for most situations 
>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 1:45 PM Ted Durant  wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 12:34:51 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>> I would echo that triples are pretty nice - not only do you get more 
>> range, but the 10-tooth jumps in the front are a lot less 'disruptive' if 
>> you know what I mean. I find the smaller chainring jump means that when I 
>> hit the base of a hill I can often just drop a chainring and leave the rear 
>> alone, and it is a natural gear reduction .. whereas on the wide-low 
>> double, you would be spinning like crazy if you tried the same thing
>>
>>
>> Excellent point, and one that launches me into bike nerd mode... 
>> apologies in advance if this is too much.
>>
>> The "standard" chainring gap became 16 teeth when "compact double" 50x34 
>> combos became all the rage. That's a 39% jump, the way I measure it 
>> (Ln(50/34)), or about 2.5 times the 15.4% jump from 18 to 21 in back. Now, 
>> if you keep that 16 tooth gap but go down to 40x24, that's a ginormous 51% 
>> jump, which is 3.3x the 18-21 jump. I have a 42x26 on my Waterford ST-22, 
>> and it's definitely jarring to drop to the small ring when you hit a hill, 
>> requiring a bit of advance planning to shift a cog harder in the rear, 
>> first. I spent plenty of time riding half-step gearing, so I'm facile with 
>> double-shifting, but after a couple hundred kms I'm too tired for that. For 
>> my Breadwinner G-Road I went with 44x32, which is a gentle 32% jump. It 
>> means there's more overlap in the gearing, or to put it another way, I'm 
>> not maximizing the total range of the system, but I very much prefer to 
>> make that trade-off. At 41%, the 14-tooth gap on the Silver 42x28's on my 
>> Sams is pretty much the outer limit for me. The Wide-Low (38x24) is a 46% 
>> jump which is pretty high.
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Sarah Carlson]

Yes please!


On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 6:53:10 PM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi Sarah. I was just reading this thread & realized I have a friend with a 
> Mimic saddle for sale. It apparently did not work for her but it’s brand 
> new & probably a deal? If that is of interest to you I can put you in touch 
> with her. I will see if I can attach a pic…
> [image: image0.png]
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 26, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Sarah Carlson  wrote:
>
> 
>
> And it was a beginner ride with a avg 12 mile posted pace. I almost told 
> him i hoped I hadn't held him back from making a personal best time on that 
> ride!
>
> My other bikes are set up perfect for what I do, so no stripping! Although 
> I might have to consider that myself to bring in money for my bike habit.
>
> On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 7:45:47 AM UTC-8 Ted Durant wrote:
>
>> On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 9:25:01 AM UTC-6 sarahlik...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>> You always need a Hilly Bike... Do it!
>>
>> A list full of enablers :-)
>>  
>>
>> I had an injury (shoulder) last year and had what I would call total 
>> fitness depletion so I have been building back up from what feels like 
>> zero. 
>>
>> I'm very sympathetic to that.  I've had a bunch of weird stuff happen 
>> over the last few years, including a drug that started killing my red blood 
>> cells, so I have felt like I've had to restart the engine a few times. That 
>> might be one reason why my bikes are all set up the same way ... trying to 
>> stick with what works in terms of positioning, while I get the other things 
>> going.
>>  
>>
>>  So while I figure that out I'm open to seeing what a lighter built up 
>> bike can do. 
>>
>> Far be it for me not to be the enabler of buying another Riv, but have 
>> you considered stripping down one of your existing bikes and trying some 
>> nice, light tires? In my experience, tires make by far and away the biggest 
>> difference to how a bike feels, and if you've dialed in a good riding 
>> position, you could start there (and maybe a wider range set of gears in 
>> back). Removing a rear rack can also remove some stiffness from the rear of 
>> the bike, but I don't know how many people would feel that difference, 
>> especially on a bike that's already fairly stout and on cushy tires.
>>
>> with exception to the guy who led the first beginner ride I went on, 
>> looked at my bike and stated, "I hope I can ride slow enough..." 
>>
>>
>> Hoo boy, just the kind of person you want leading a group ride...  one of 
>> the reasons I stopped going on group rides.
>>
>> Ted Durant
>> Milwaukee, WI USA
>>
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> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: A Homer Hill build....

[Jason Fuller]

You bring up a good point Ted about so-called redundant gears, which is
something many cyclists try to eliminate as much as possible to their own
practical detriment. It's better to approach planning a drivetrain by
identifying how low you want your low gear to be, how high you want your
high gear to be, and then finding the most user-friendly combination to get
there. A big issue with wide-range doubles is that you'll find that you
need to drop into the small ring for every hill, whereas if you have a
triple, you can generally stay in the middle ring most of the time and save
a lot of front shifts, even though you have more rings up there.

For me, I find I don't need anything above about 95 gear inches - above
that and I'm going to coast, maybe tuck in and get aero. Maybe 100 tops. On
the low end, if it's used off-road or to carry loads I'll want something in
the 18-20 gear inch range, but if it's a roadish bike, 24-25 inches is
good. So what I tend to do is run a double but size the rings such that I
truncate the big gears I'll almost never use, so that I can run a big ring
on the double that I can stay in on gentle climbs. 40/28 to 11-34 is a
great combo, for instance. Even 38/26 to 11-28 to get some smaller steps on
the back, and 38-11 is a big enough top gear for most situations

On Sun, Nov 26, 2023 at 1:45 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

> On Sunday, November 26, 2023 at 12:34:51 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> I would echo that triples are pretty nice - not only do you get more
> range, but the 10-tooth jumps in the front are a lot less 'disruptive' if
> you know what I mean. I find the smaller chainring jump means that when I
> hit the base of a hill I can often just drop a chainring and leave the rear
> alone, and it is a natural gear reduction .. whereas on the wide-low
> double, you would be spinning like crazy if you tried the same thing
>
>
> Excellent point, and one that launches me into bike nerd mode... apologies
> in advance if this is too much.
>
> The "standard" chainring gap became 16 teeth when "compact double" 50x34
> combos became all the rage. That's a 39% jump, the way I measure it
> (Ln(50/34)), or about 2.5 times the 15.4% jump from 18 to 21 in back. Now,
> if you keep that 16 tooth gap but go down to 40x24, that's a ginormous 51%
> jump, which is 3.3x the 18-21 jump. I have a 42x26 on my Waterford ST-22,
> and it's definitely jarring to drop to the small ring when you hit a hill,
> requiring a bit of advance planning to shift a cog harder in the rear,
> first. I spent plenty of time riding half-step gearing, so I'm facile with
> double-shifting, but after a couple hundred kms I'm too tired for that. For
> my Breadwinner G-Road I went with 44x32, which is a gentle 32% jump. It
> means there's more overlap in the gearing, or to put it another way, I'm
> not maximizing the total range of the system, but I very much prefer to
> make that trade-off. At 41%, the 14-tooth gap on the Silver 42x28's on my
> Sams is pretty much the outer limit for me. The Wide-Low (38x24) is a 46%
> jump which is pretty high.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee, WI USA
>
>
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> .
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