Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Jeremy Till]

The bright green long chainstay bike was one of the original series of 
"mystery bike" protos, that Rivendell had Nobilette build as a test 
bed/demo bike for the concept and was in their showroom for a while before 
selling it.  I had the pleasure of riding it then, and it sold me on the 
concept of upright bars for all kinds of riding, and the awesomeness of 
Bosco bars.  I happen to know that it currently belongs to Riv/ SF Bay Area 
local Finn Taylor.  

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 11:24:56 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>   I'm not sure who owns that green frame , someone is riding it somewhere 
> or it's at Riv HQ . 
>
> Keven also has one too , a 58.7 proto-Appaloosa . 
> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff3.htm
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 1:40:02 PM UTC-4, Pudge wrote:
>>
>> Beautiful – whose bike is that?  List member?
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] 
>> *On Behalf Of *Garth
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2015 12:56 PM
>> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch
>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Garth]

 Yeah Leisl , of all the Riv frames I must say your design is the absolute 
coolest !  *Truly long and low with style* !  

I cannot see either why the next production frame will not have the 50cm+ 
chainstays, given the talk-up in the blug saying essentially "there's no 
reason why not to" !   Seeing that prototype's are just what they are , 
"test" frames , I take the "sam-like" test frame for sale as just that , a 
tester , but as such is ever subject to change. Not final. It may be well 
decided to go with the long chainstays for the next frame and for whatever 
reason it was time to put up the "sam-like" frame for sale. 



On Wednesday, September 2, 2015 at 10:00:40 PM UTC-4, Liesl wrote:
>
> Fun to see a link to my custom; thanks Garth! Yep, my custom differs from 
> the Mystery Bike in that the mid stays are doubled and go right into the 
> asymmetric  tentacular stays. And yep it's a Nobilette. 
>
> I thought of it as a Custom Appaloosa because of the badge on the Mystery 
> (which is what the custom was besed on) but perhaps it's not. So I too am 
> confused that the proto Appaloosa doesn't have the 50+ chainstays. I for 
> one *love* them.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Lungimsam]

It's good to have a new name.
Then less confusion on which "Sam" you are looking at in a given  "FS:" 
listing. The long stay wider tire version or the 42mm tire max version.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Lungimsam]

It's good to have a new name.
Then less confusion on which "Sam" you are looking at in a given  "FS:" 
listing. The long stay wider tire version or the 42mm tire max version.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Liesl]

Fun to see a link to my custom; thanks Garth! Yep, my custom differs from the 
Mystery Bike in that the mid stays are doubled and go right into the asymmetric 
 tentacular stays. And yep it's a Nobilette. 

I thought of it as a Custom Appaloosa because of the badge on the Mystery 
(which is what the custom was besed on) but perhaps it's not. So I too am 
confused that the proto Appaloosa doesn't have the 50+ chainstays. I for one 
*love* them.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Jim Bronson]

There's a plethora of builders who can help you with that.  Rivendell will
not be one of them.

I don't think rando is un-racerish enough for Grant, and he's definitely
not a fan of low-trail.



On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Lungimsam  wrote:

> I'm holding out for a super light tubing, standard tube width, low trail,
> canti brake, 650b, carbon brush in the headrube,  seat tube taillight
> braze-on, wireless front dropouts,  Rivrandobike.
>
> They have done everything but, I think, so far.
> MTN, all road, road, touring, country, single speed, Mixte, and
> comfort/hybrid/cruiser, have all been touched upon. Tandem is in the works.
> Unicycle, and bmx and kid bikes haven't been done yet though.
>
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Keep the metal side up and the rubber side down!

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Ron Mc]

Jim nailed that one

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:18:45 AM UTC-5, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> ...
> I don't think rando is un-racerish enough for Grant, and he's definitely 
> not a fan of low-trail.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[BenG]

Hi Garth,
I bought one of the proto long bikes late in that program. Seems to me like it 
was "an experiment, a step in the right direction, a successive approximation" 
(says so on the decal) that led to the Cheviot, the first production long bike. 
 Mine has the horse head badge that will show up on some production bike; long 
chainstays that are currently in production; and tentacular extrastays that are 
probably forever limited to Mr. Nobilette's handiwork.  I squeezed 50's under 
its fenders and love the cush, but's too tight for gravel, let alone sticks. I 
have a Sam, and a long bike, and for me, a Cheviot that fits 2" tires under 
fenders would be a really nice bike.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Garth]

  BenG, You mean you have a frame like the green one I linked above ? 
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8186/8419517174_1e94722b62_b.jpg

I like those frames !  

Yes, the Chev looks nice .  My next frame will likely be custom as I have 
yet to meet another production frame that can "add to" the fit and 
qualities of my early model Bombadil. Close but no cigar yet !  


On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 12:11:05 PM UTC-4, BenG wrote:
>
> Hi Garth, 
> I bought one of the proto long bikes late in that program. Seems to me 
> like it was "an experiment, a step in the right direction, a successive 
> approximation" (says so on the decal) that led to the Cheviot, the first 
> production long bike.  Mine has the horse head badge that will show up on 
> some production bike; long chainstays that are currently in production; and 
> tentacular extrastays that are probably forever limited to Mr. Nobilette's 
> handiwork.  I squeezed 50's under its fenders and love the cush, but's too 
> tight for gravel, let alone sticks. I have a Sam, and a long bike, and for 
> me, a Cheviot that fits 2" tires under fenders would be a really nice bike.

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RE: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

So, back to calling the long bikes "Mystery Bikes"?

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Garth
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2015 2:17 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet


Thanks Bill !  So I'll consider a Appaloosa to mean "prototype" generically 
then , even though it bears nothing to do with the words meaning or origin .


On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:33:45 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
You are only confused because it's kind of confusing.

They've liked the name "Appaloosa" for a long while, and have several bike 
concepts in the pipeline.  They fully developed the appaloosa name, by getting 
a badge made and presumably all the other decal work.  So they are going to use 
that name, no matter what, on some bike.  Which bike gets that name has changed 
over time.  That LONG BIKE is a bike in the pipeline, that maybe will 
eventually get made.  That LONG BIKE just won't have the name Appaloosa, even 
though there have been LONG BIKE prototypes that have been called Appaloosa, 
and some that even have the Appaloosa badge.

On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 9:01:30 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:


   I'm a bit confused  I thought the Appaloosa was suppose to have really 
long chainstays, a diagonal tube, and more rake .

This one : https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8186/8419517174_1e94722b62_b.jpg
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Bill Lindsay]

Mystery bikes, or "tentacular long bikes".  Rosco Bubbe and Bosco Rubbe 
also were placeholders for possible bike names.  Remember that BMX-ish bike 
with a fork crown that was on the Blug, or was it the knot-hole.  They 
referred to it as Rosco Bubbe.  Looking back on that, that was most likely 
not an actual prototype BMX or kids' bike.  It was more likely a prototype 
merely to enable Riv to evaluate the joining-work of their vendor on a bike 
that was part-tigged and partly lugged.  If all you need to see are a bunch 
of joints, and if you prefer to see them in a completed frame of some kind, 
then I suppose it makes sense that it be little.  

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:15:27 AM UTC-7, Pudge wrote:
>
> So, back to calling the long bikes "Mystery Bikes"?
>
>  
>
> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Garth
> *Sent:* Friday, August 28, 2015 2:17 PM
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch
> *Subject:* [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet
>
>  
>
>
> Thanks Bill !  So I'll consider a Appaloosa to mean "prototype" 
> generically then , even though it bears nothing to do with the words 
> meaning or origin .
>
>
> On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 1:33:45 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> You are only confused because it's kind of confusing.   
>
>  
>
> They've liked the name "Appaloosa" for a long while, and have several bike 
> concepts in the pipeline.  They fully developed the appaloosa name, by 
> getting a badge made and presumably all the other decal work.  So they are 
> going to use that name, no matter what, on some bike.  Which bike gets that 
> name has changed over time.  That LONG BIKE is a bike in the pipeline, that 
> maybe will eventually get made.  That LONG BIKE just won't have the name 
> Appaloosa, even though there have been LONG BIKE prototypes that have been 
> called Appaloosa, and some that even have the Appaloosa badge.  
>
> On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 9:01:30 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>
>
>I'm a bit confused  I thought the Appaloosa was suppose to have 
> really long chainstays, a diagonal tube, and more rake .
>
> This one : https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8186/8419517174_1e94722b62_b.jpg
>
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RE: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Beautiful – whose bike is that?  List member?

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Garth
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 12:56 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet


  BenG, You mean you have a frame like the green one I linked above ? 
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8186/8419517174_1e94722b62_b.jpg

I like those frames !

Yes, the Chev looks nice .  My next frame will likely be custom as I have yet 
to meet another production frame that can "add to" the fit and qualities of my 
early model Bombadil. Close but no cigar yet !


On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 12:11:05 PM UTC-4, BenG wrote:
Hi Garth,
I bought one of the proto long bikes late in that program. Seems to me like it 
was "an experiment, a step in the right direction, a successive approximation" 
(says so on the decal) that led to the Cheviot, the first production long bike. 
 Mine has the horse head badge that will show up on some production bike; long 
chainstays that are currently in production; and tentacular extrastays that are 
probably forever limited to Mr. Nobilette's handiwork.  I squeezed 50's under 
its fenders and love the cush, but's too tight for gravel, let alone sticks. I 
have a Sam, and a long bike, and for me, a Cheviot that fits 2" tires under 
fenders would be a really nice bike.
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Garth]

   FWIW, Here also is Leisl's frame .  It appears to differ in there are 2 
diagonal tubes, like really long chainstay kinda tubes. The green one uses 
one main tube and uses a lug on the seat tube . Regardless, I love this 
style !  

http://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/80720787036/heres-the-story-of-our-latest-custom-bike-for

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Garth]

  I'm not sure who owns that green frame , someone is riding it somewhere 
or it's at Riv HQ . 

Keven also has one too , a 58.7 proto-Appaloosa . 
http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/staff3.htm



On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 1:40:02 PM UTC-4, Pudge wrote:
>
> Beautiful – whose bike is that?  List member?
>
>  
>
> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Garth
> *Sent:* Monday, August 31, 2015 12:56 PM
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch
> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet
>
>  
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[BenG]

A brown "mystery bike" is my commuting bike.  For me, the 50mm tires make it 
wonderful, the long stays make it different, and the curvy tentacles make it 
(nearly) unique.  Based on my own saddle time on Sam and the long one, the 
fat-tired Sam called an Appaloosa prototype, the one that started this thread, 
seems great.  Every non-racing bike should fit fatties fine (oops).

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Reid]

But getting back to the original subject, the Appaloosa, can anyone compare 
it to known Riv models? One description on the web site says it's like an 
Atlantis with upsloping head tube. So does that mean Atlantis weight tubing 
rather than AHH weight tubing? Specs that allow for drop bars? Mostly a 
city bike, road bike, touring bike, off roader??? Just what is it?

Inquiring minds and all that.

Reid

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Lungimsam]

I'm holding out for a super light tubing, standard tube width, low trail, canti 
brake, 650b, carbon brush in the headrube,  seat tube taillight braze-on, 
wireless front dropouts,  Rivrandobike.

They have done everything but, I think, so far.
MTN, all road, road, touring, country, single speed, Mixte, and 
comfort/hybrid/cruiser, have all been touched upon. Tandem is in the works.
Unicycle, and bmx and kid bikes haven't been done yet though.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/30/2015 05:03 PM, Lungimsam wrote:

I'm holding out for a super light tubing, standard tube width, low trail, canti 
brake, 650b, carbon brush in the headrube,  seat tube taillight braze-on, 
wireless front dropouts,  Rivrandobike.


Odds are, you won't get any of that from Rivendell except the canti brakes.

What you /will/ get is a super stout frame with oversize tubing, a 
double top tube and high trail geometry.   Tail lights will be bolt-on, 
and headlights will be battery stap-ons.   There probably will be fender 
mounts, but odds are the mounting points will be spaced so as to make it 
impossible to achieve an even fender line.   You'll probably get a 
unique lug set (because Grant loves designing lugs) and a long top tube 
because the bike will be designed for use with cruiser bars rather than 
drop bars.   Chances are it'll come with 3 different sizes: small, 
medium and large, with the small size designed for 559 tires, the medium 
for 650B and the large size for 700C.


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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Ron Mc]

A Sam by any other name.

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 1:33:23 AM UTC-5, Reid wrote:

 But getting back to the original subject, the Appaloosa, can anyone 
 compare it to known Riv models? One description on the web site says it's 
 like an Atlantis with upsloping head tube. So does that mean Atlantis 
 weight tubing rather than AHH weight tubing? Specs that allow for drop 
 bars? Mostly a city bike, road bike, touring bike, off roader??? Just what 
 is it?

 Inquiring minds and all that.

 Reid



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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[cyclotourist]

Could be. But if this does everything and more, that would be a lot of
redundancy.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:37 AM, Daniel D. dddon...@gmail.com wrote:

 But folks at riv keep on mentioning that the Sam is in fact coming back
 next year?

 On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 6:45:21 AM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:

 When a Riv model goes away, it never comes back (Legolas the partial
 exception). So don't plan seeing a Hillborne anytime soon.

 But really, why should it come back if the Appaloosa is mostly the same
 bike but with wider clearances.? I think Sam geometry and a bike w/ wider
 tires is great (presuming tubing isn't heavier)!

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Garth]

 They have not done a production long chainstay frame for individual sale , 
like the one I linked above, or like Leisl's custom . No, the Clems don't 
count as they were budgeted as complete bikes only and very limited in 
sizing. 


As for low trail , how long can you hold your breath ? Ahahahah !   Keep 
holding  
https://signalvnoise.com/posts/2772-bootstrapped-profitable-proud-rivendell

*“I don’t want anybody to feel ashamed for asking us to drill holes in 
 forks or make a bike with low ‘trail,’ but I’m resolved not to do it for 
 the same reason Doug Merrick held his ground.* 

 *“To a customer, a custom frame can mean ‘I pay you money and you let me 
 design the bike,’ but that’s not what custom means here. We’ve turned down 
 ‘custom’ orders when it’s meant all we do is collect the money and 
 facilitate the customer’s own design. It can be seen as not 
 customer-friendly, but in the end it means I know that every custom has the 
 qualities I value and a certain amount of integrity. If you stand for 
 something and are committed to it, then you dilute it if you introduce 
 something that’s less pure or hard-core.”*



There are many builders that make just what you want, including Boulder 
Bikes . 


On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 5:03:09 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:

 I'm holding out for a super light tubing, standard tube width, low trail, 
 canti brake, 650b, carbon brush in the headrube,  seat tube taillight 
 braze-on, wireless front dropouts,  Rivrandobike. 

 They have done everything but, I think, so far. 
 MTN, all road, road, touring, country, single speed, Mixte, and 
 comfort/hybrid/cruiser, have all been touched upon. Tandem is in the works. 
 Unicycle, and bmx and kid bikes haven't been done yet though.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[cyclotourist]

When a Riv model goes away, it never comes back (Legolas the partial
exception). So don't plan seeing a Hillborne anytime soon.

But really, why should it come back if the Appaloosa is mostly the same
bike but with wider clearances.? I think Sam geometry and a bike w/ wider
tires is great (presuming tubing isn't heavier)!

As for model designation, a new name is better than calling it the second
generation Sam. That avoids any confusion about which ones have wider
clearances or other features (How come my bike won't fit an XXX tire,
Rivendell said it would...).

Signing off (trying to get in a ride before it heats up).

David (loves parenthesis this morning) in the new Arizona.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 5:42 AM, Tony DeFilippo vpi...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm interested to see how the pricing shakes out of these new Riv
 models...  If the Appaloosa ends up looking like this web special why would
 they ever bring the Sam back in the line up.  We've all been conditioned to
 want wider and wider tires after all. It's a great head badge to!

 Periodically retiring models and continuing to tweak the designs send to
 be the overriding hallmark of Riv product management.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Tony DeFilippo]

I'm interested to see how the pricing shakes out of these new Riv models...  If 
the Appaloosa ends up looking like this web special why would they ever bring 
the Sam back in the line up.  We've all been conditioned to want wider and 
wider tires after all. It's a great head badge to!

Periodically retiring models and continuing to tweak the designs send to be the 
overriding hallmark of Riv product management.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Daniel D.]

But folks at riv keep on mentioning that the Sam is in fact coming back 
next year?

On Sunday, August 30, 2015 at 6:45:21 AM UTC-7, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:

 When a Riv model goes away, it never comes back (Legolas the partial 
 exception). So don't plan seeing a Hillborne anytime soon.

 But really, why should it come back if the Appaloosa is mostly the same 
 bike but with wider clearances.? I think Sam geometry and a bike w/ wider 
 tires is great (presuming tubing isn't heavier)!



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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Lungimsam]

Well, they gotta know there's a big market for it. Lotsa lugged Rando builders 
around these days in the USA. Randonneuring seems to be exploding in the USA. I 
think in this years PBP, the USA had more riders than any other country except 
France. Riv could go Taiwan or Toyo  and undercut the competition. Plus, Riv 
has the best looking frames/lugs in the industry. They'd be the prettiest.

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Justin August]

Many things can be said about Riv and GP but responding to the market and 
following others' leads aren't some of them!

-J

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[James Warren]

I ride Big Ben 50's on my Sam a lot, and it has sidepulls. It's why I think 
it's such an amazing bike. The 50's are the limit of the bike's tire clearance, 
and if there were mud, I'd have some interference problems. But do Californians 
know what mud is anymore?

One of the shots shows a two millimeter clearance with the fender tab, but I 
don't worry about it:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/17071337951/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/17070605792/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15646856530/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15831687195/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15645878559/in/dateposted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15646528257/in/dateposted-public/


On Aug 29, 2015, at 2:42 PM, Surlyprof wrote:

 +1 on the maroon and creme.  They don't do reds often but, when they do, they 
 do it well.  Can't justify the purchase when the bike looks so similar to my 
 canti-Hillborne.  I am wondering if this is a variation on the Hillborne with 
 capability for wider tires.  If so, that would be fantastic.  This has got me 
 wondering about adding the Big Ben 50s to the Sam.  It handles the 45 Smart 
 Sams well (and I love the bouncy, smooth trail ride) but it is getting a 
 little tight around the chainstays.
 
 John
 
 On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 6:24:35 PM UTC-7, Daniel D. wrote:
 Love that maroon w/cream
 
 On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 3:44:34 PM UTC-7, drew wrote:
 now there is a reddish 55cm up. am i looking at a hunq fork crown on these 
 guys? it seems like the slightly more affordable, slightly more off roady 
 line up they are working towards is gonna be pretty cool and well timed, 
 trend wise.  
 
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jimcwar...@earthlink.net

- 700x33






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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[James Warren]

I've gotten at most two flats on Big Bens in 2.4 years.

They are great on dirt, not sure about gravel.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 29, 2015, at 5:15 PM, Surlyprof jmcclu...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 
 We see mud only if we spill our drink in the dirt.  Of course, if that drink 
 was water, the spill will be followed by the appropriate scornful looks.
 
 Thanks for posting the photos.  How have the Big Bens been for flat 
 protection and riding on gravel?  Most of my commute is along a gravel path 
 and then (sometimes glass covered) city streets.
 
 John
 
 On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 3:16:17 PM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:
 
 I ride Big Ben 50's on my Sam a lot, and it has sidepulls. It's why I think 
 it's such an amazing bike. The 50's are the limit of the bike's tire 
 clearance, and if there were mud, I'd have some interference problems. But 
 do Californians know what mud is anymore?
 
 One of the shots shows a two millimeter clearance with the fender tab, but I 
 don't worry about it:
 
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/17071337951/in/dateposted-public/
 
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/17070605792/in/dateposted-public/
 
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15646856530/in/dateposted-public/
 
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15831687195/in/dateposted-public/
 
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15645878559/in/dateposted-public/
 
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15646528257/in/dateposted-public/
 
 
 On Aug 29, 2015, at 2:42 PM, Surlyprof wrote:
 
 +1 on the maroon and creme.  They don't do reds often but, when they do, 
 they do it well.  Can't justify the purchase when the bike looks so similar 
 to my canti-Hillborne.  I am wondering if this is a variation on the 
 Hillborne with capability for wider tires.  If so, that would be fantastic. 
  This has got me wondering about adding the Big Ben 50s to the Sam.  It 
 handles the 45 Smart Sams well (and I love the bouncy, smooth trail ride) 
 but it is getting a little tight around the chainstays.
 
 John
 
 On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 6:24:35 PM UTC-7, Daniel D. wrote:
 Love that maroon w/cream
 
 On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 3:44:34 PM UTC-7, drew wrote:
 now there is a reddish 55cm up. am i looking at a hunq fork crown on 
 these guys? it seems like the slightly more affordable, slightly more off 
 roady line up they are working towards is gonna be pretty cool and well 
 timed, trend wise.  
 
 
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 James Warren
 jimcw...@earthlink.net
 
 - 700x33
 
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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Sample Appaloosa is pretty sweet

[Surlyprof]

We see mud only if we spill our drink in the dirt.  Of course, if that 
drink was water, the spill will be followed by the appropriate scornful 
looks.

Thanks for posting the photos.  How have the Big Bens been for flat 
protection and riding on gravel?  Most of my commute is along a gravel path 
and then (sometimes glass covered) city streets.

John

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 3:16:17 PM UTC-7, James Warren wrote:


 I ride Big Ben 50's on my Sam a lot, and it has sidepulls. It's why I 
 think it's such an amazing bike. The 50's are the limit of the bike's tire 
 clearance, and if there were mud, I'd have some interference problems. But 
 do Californians know what mud is anymore?

 One of the shots shows a two millimeter clearance with the fender tab, but 
 I don't worry about it:


 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/17071337951/in/dateposted-public/


 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/17070605792/in/dateposted-public/


 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15646856530/in/dateposted-public/


 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15831687195/in/dateposted-public/


 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15645878559/in/dateposted-public/


 https://www.flickr.com/photos/46035786@N07/15646528257/in/dateposted-public/


 On Aug 29, 2015, at 2:42 PM, Surlyprof wrote:

 +1 on the maroon and creme.  They don't do reds often but, when they do, 
 they do it well.  Can't justify the purchase when the bike looks so similar 
 to my canti-Hillborne.  I am wondering if this is a variation on the 
 Hillborne with capability for wider tires.  If so, that would be fantastic. 
  This has got me wondering about adding the Big Ben 50s to the Sam.  It 
 handles the 45 Smart Sams well (and I love the bouncy, smooth trail ride) 
 but it is getting a little tight around the chainstays.

 John

 On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 6:24:35 PM UTC-7, Daniel D. wrote:

 Love that maroon w/cream

 On Friday, August 28, 2015 at 3:44:34 PM UTC-7, drew wrote:

 now there is a reddish 55cm up. am i looking at a hunq fork crown on 
 these guys? it seems like the slightly more affordable, slightly more off 
 roady line up they are working towards is gonna be pretty cool and well 
 timed, trend wise.  


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 jimcw...@earthlink.net javascript:

 - 700x33








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