Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle Height

[Matt]

This is all very helpful. 55cm seems more versatile. I'm unlikely to put 
drop bars on it, but, still. If I can find a used bargain I'll try a 60, 
else I'll go for the 55. Really appreciate the kind and quality of feedback 
here.

On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 7:32:21 AM UTC-7 exliontamer wrote:

> Aside from the subjectivity of saddle height I would attempt to try 
> different sizes of bikes to see which feels better to you. I realize that's 
> next to impossible with a Rivendell but if you have bikes that fit you well 
> I think the knowledge can work laterally. I had a friend buy an Appaloosa 
> from Riv, went off of their sizing method/recommendation over the phone and 
> ended up with a bike they felt was too big. Fast forward years later, we 
> just visited the shop a month ago, they test rode an Appaloosa that was a 
> size smaller and strongly preferred it. We're all built differently and 
> even with experience it's difficult to tell how you feel about it before 
> you actually ride it. 
> Also they obviously know what they're doing & their sizing methods/bar & 
> stem recommendations have steered my wife right twice. Just wanted to relay 
> that story 'cos them bikes is expensive.
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 8:03:10 AM UTC-5 DavidP wrote:
>
>> Welcome, Matt! 
>> Saddle height is a bit subjective - but the heel on pedal method gets me 
>> in the ballpark.
>> If your PBH is 83cm I think a 60cm Platy might be cutting it close just 
>> due to saddle height - I feel I'm towards the lower end of the 60cm 
>> Platypus PBH range at 87cm PBH. I'm using a lower profile saddle (compared 
>> to something like a Brooks B17) and don't have a lot of seatpost showing, 
>> but I also run my saddle a bit lower than the PBH - 11cm guideline.
>>
>> Given that Grant has made a 64cm Clem fit him at 85cm 
>> , you 
>> could likely get a 60cm Platypus to fit but it may limit saddle, seatpost, 
>> stem, and bar options.
>>
>> -Dave (near Boston)
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-4 Matt wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, all! It seems more art than science. I usually cycle in sandals 
>>> (I refuse to call them flip flops), so I assume that grown-up shoes will 
>>> add some. Nice to be here.
>>>
>>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 6:27:48 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Of the methods I've read about that is and older one (1960s?) and gives 
 a lower saddle than others; for me, a saddle quite a bit too low -- I did 
 use it myself long ago. Of course, all of these methods are simply 
 starting 
 points.

 To the OP: be sure to get your saddle fore-and-aft position in place 
 too as well as saddle height before making other measurements; and even 
 saddle tilt in addition to both the forgoing can affect preferred reach to 
 pedals.

 On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 1:20 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I heard somewhere a million years ago that you should be able to rest 
> your heel on the pedal with a straight leg. If you stretch it's too high, 
> if your knee is bent it's too low. Sounds ridiculous but it's never 
> failed 
> me. 
>
>
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-7 Matt wrote:
>
>> Newb here, but long time Rivendell lurker. Chatted to Will today 
>> about a Platypus and he mentioned saddle height. My BPH is 83cm (self 
>> measured - pretty sure it was to bone but maybe another cm?). Currently 
>> riding an ebike, which feels like driving an automatic only worse, so 
>> I'm 
>> not sure the saddle height is a good indication of what's ideal with a 
>> real 
>> bicycle. Any thoughts on measuring or extrapolating from PBH? 
>>
>> btw looking for 55/60cm Platypus, but may well wait for the next 
>> stock. 
>>
>> Lovely group, this. Thanks for the edification.
>>
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> 
> .
>


 -- 
 --
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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 Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters,

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle Height

[exliontamer]

Aside from the subjectivity of saddle height I would attempt to try 
different sizes of bikes to see which feels better to you. I realize that's 
next to impossible with a Rivendell but if you have bikes that fit you well 
I think the knowledge can work laterally. I had a friend buy an Appaloosa 
from Riv, went off of their sizing method/recommendation over the phone and 
ended up with a bike they felt was too big. Fast forward years later, we 
just visited the shop a month ago, they test rode an Appaloosa that was a 
size smaller and strongly preferred it. We're all built differently and 
even with experience it's difficult to tell how you feel about it before 
you actually ride it. 
Also they obviously know what they're doing & their sizing methods/bar & 
stem recommendations have steered my wife right twice. Just wanted to relay 
that story 'cos them bikes is expensive.
On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 8:03:10 AM UTC-5 DavidP wrote:

> Welcome, Matt! 
> Saddle height is a bit subjective - but the heel on pedal method gets me 
> in the ballpark.
> If your PBH is 83cm I think a 60cm Platy might be cutting it close just 
> due to saddle height - I feel I'm towards the lower end of the 60cm 
> Platypus PBH range at 87cm PBH. I'm using a lower profile saddle (compared 
> to something like a Brooks B17) and don't have a lot of seatpost showing, 
> but I also run my saddle a bit lower than the PBH - 11cm guideline.
>
> Given that Grant has made a 64cm Clem fit him at 85cm 
> , you 
> could likely get a 60cm Platypus to fit but it may limit saddle, seatpost, 
> stem, and bar options.
>
> -Dave (near Boston)
>
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-4 Matt wrote:
>
>> Thanks, all! It seems more art than science. I usually cycle in sandals 
>> (I refuse to call them flip flops), so I assume that grown-up shoes will 
>> add some. Nice to be here.
>>
>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 6:27:48 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Of the methods I've read about that is and older one (1960s?) and gives 
>>> a lower saddle than others; for me, a saddle quite a bit too low -- I did 
>>> use it myself long ago. Of course, all of these methods are simply starting 
>>> points.
>>>
>>> To the OP: be sure to get your saddle fore-and-aft position in place too 
>>> as well as saddle height before making other measurements; and even saddle 
>>> tilt in addition to both the forgoing can affect preferred reach to pedals.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 1:20 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
 I heard somewhere a million years ago that you should be able to rest 
 your heel on the pedal with a straight leg. If you stretch it's too high, 
 if your knee is bent it's too low. Sounds ridiculous but it's never failed 
 me. 



 On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-7 Matt wrote:

> Newb here, but long time Rivendell lurker. Chatted to Will today about 
> a Platypus and he mentioned saddle height. My BPH is 83cm (self measured 
> - 
> pretty sure it was to bone but maybe another cm?). Currently riding an 
> ebike, which feels like driving an automatic only worse, so I'm not sure 
> the saddle height is a good indication of what's ideal with a real 
> bicycle. 
> Any thoughts on measuring or extrapolating from PBH? 
>
> btw looking for 55/60cm Platypus, but may well wait for the next 
> stock. 
>
> Lovely group, this. Thanks for the edification.
>
 -- 
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 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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 .

>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> --
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters,
>>>
>>> and other less well defined but still important writing services.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>>
>>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>>
>>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>>
>>> *With words that made them known.*
>>>
>>> Shakespeare, Tempest, Act 1 Scene 2
>>>
>>

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To 

Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle Height

[Matt]

Thanks, all! It seems more art than science. I usually cycle in sandals (I 
refuse to call them flip flops), so I assume that grown-up shoes will add 
some. Nice to be here.

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 6:27:48 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Of the methods I've read about that is and older one (1960s?) and gives a 
> lower saddle than others; for me, a saddle quite a bit too low -- I did use 
> it myself long ago. Of course, all of these methods are simply starting 
> points.
>
> To the OP: be sure to get your saddle fore-and-aft position in place too 
> as well as saddle height before making other measurements; and even saddle 
> tilt in addition to both the forgoing can affect preferred reach to pedals.
>
> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 1:20 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> I heard somewhere a million years ago that you should be able to rest 
>> your heel on the pedal with a straight leg. If you stretch it's too high, 
>> if your knee is bent it's too low. Sounds ridiculous but it's never failed 
>> me. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-7 Matt wrote:
>>
>>> Newb here, but long time Rivendell lurker. Chatted to Will today about a 
>>> Platypus and he mentioned saddle height. My BPH is 83cm (self measured - 
>>> pretty sure it was to bone but maybe another cm?). Currently riding an 
>>> ebike, which feels like driving an automatic only worse, so I'm not sure 
>>> the saddle height is a good indication of what's ideal with a real bicycle. 
>>> Any thoughts on measuring or extrapolating from PBH? 
>>>
>>> btw looking for 55/60cm Platypus, but may well wait for the next stock. 
>>>
>>> Lovely group, this. Thanks for the edification.
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5b451c1a-124b-4fb3-ade5-8e35f1c387cfn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> --
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters,
>
> and other less well defined but still important writing services.
>
>
> --
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>
> Shakespeare, Tempest, Act 1 Scene 2
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle Height

[Patrick Moore]

Of the methods I've read about that is and older one (1960s?) and gives a
lower saddle than others; for me, a saddle quite a bit too low -- I did use
it myself long ago. Of course, all of these methods are simply starting
points.

To the OP: be sure to get your saddle fore-and-aft position in place too as
well as saddle height before making other measurements; and even saddle
tilt in addition to both the forgoing can affect preferred reach to pedals.

On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 1:20 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> I heard somewhere a million years ago that you should be able to rest your
> heel on the pedal with a straight leg. If you stretch it's too high, if
> your knee is bent it's too low. Sounds ridiculous but it's never failed me.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, August 20, 2023 at 4:46:05 PM UTC-7 Matt wrote:
>
>> Newb here, but long time Rivendell lurker. Chatted to Will today about a
>> Platypus and he mentioned saddle height. My BPH is 83cm (self measured -
>> pretty sure it was to bone but maybe another cm?). Currently riding an
>> ebike, which feels like driving an automatic only worse, so I'm not sure
>> the saddle height is a good indication of what's ideal with a real bicycle.
>> Any thoughts on measuring or extrapolating from PBH?
>>
>> btw looking for 55/60cm Platypus, but may well wait for the next stock.
>>
>> Lovely group, this. Thanks for the edification.
>>
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> 
> .
>


-- 
--
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters,

and other less well defined but still important writing services.

--

*When thou didst not, savage,*

*Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*

*A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*

*With words that made them known.*

Shakespeare, Tempest, Act 1 Scene 2

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle height vs PBH

[Christopher Cote]

Yes, back when I rode with clipless pedals that had limited float (SPD on 
the MTB, Look on the road), I had to set the cleats up carefully taking 
into account the width of the cranks. I later switched to Speedplay frogs 
with 30 degrees of float. I just needed to ensure that I could rotate my 
heels in on the most flared cranks I had, and they worked on narrower 
cranks just fine. Now I'm free of those encumbrances, and life is much 
simpler. As a side note, I found that I could not ride clipless pedals and 
cranks with straight arms like the old TA Cyclotouriste. I need a bit more 
heel clearance.

Chris


On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 4:51:17 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> A tangential but related question to that about saddle height: Do you 
> others who use cycling specific shoes favor different shoes for different 
> pedals and cranks? I find that even a slight difference in sole thickness 
> can make a saddle feel awkward; add to this the "flare" of the crank arms 
> and Q, and the attempt to avoid the inside of the shoe rubbing the arms, 
> and it's much easier to set up 1 shoe for each pedal/crank combo. 
>
> For example, the gofast with DA 7410 SPDs and converted Sidi road shoes 
> has a slightly lower saddle than the '03 with M 540s and ancient Shimano 
> spd shoes (both have the same crank). 
>
> Is this peculiar? Are others as sensitive to this sort of thing as I?
>
> Patrick "Dear Abby: Does it make me look fat?" Moore
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle height vs PBH

[Garth]

   Well sure Patrick, I get what you mean.  It also depends on the pedals 
and *their* width too. Back when I rode all straight arms and racing pedals 
of any kind I needed a narrow shoe not so much for the cranks but the 
pedals were so narrow. On the Stumpie with wider flat cage Suntour pedals 
w/o retention I could wear any shoes, even my light hiking shoes. Though by 
todays standards of flat bmx style pedals they were still narrow in width 
and cage size. 

  As far as you needing different heights of seat for the same crank and 
shoes, were the frames exactly the same STA and saddle and position of the 
saddle fore/aft/tilt ?  And differences would be noticed. 


On Tuesday, August 1, 2017 at 4:51:17 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> A tangential but related question to that about saddle height: Do you 
> others who use cycling specific shoes favor different shoes for different 
> pedals and cranks? I find that even a slight difference in sole thickness 
> can make a saddle feel awkward; add to this the "flare" of the crank arms 
> and Q, and the attempt to avoid the inside of the shoe rubbing the arms, 
> and it's much easier to set up 1 shoe for each pedal/crank combo. 
>
> For example, the gofast with DA 7410 SPDs and converted Sidi road shoes 
> has a slightly lower saddle than the '03 with M 540s and ancient Shimano 
> spd shoes (both have the same crank). 
>
> Is this peculiar? Are others as sensitive to this sort of thing as I?
>
> Patrick "Dear Abby: Does it make me look fat?" Moore
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle height vs PBH

[Patrick Moore]

A tangential but related question to that about saddle height: Do you
others who use cycling specific shoes favor different shoes for different
pedals and cranks? I find that even a slight difference in sole thickness
can make a saddle feel awkward; add to this the "flare" of the crank arms
and Q, and the attempt to avoid the inside of the shoe rubbing the arms,
and it's much easier to set up 1 shoe for each pedal/crank combo.

For example, the gofast with DA 7410 SPDs and converted Sidi road shoes has
a slightly lower saddle than the '03 with M 540s and ancient Shimano spd
shoes (both have the same crank).

Is this peculiar? Are others as sensitive to this sort of thing as I?

Patrick "Dear Abby: Does it make me look fat?" Moore

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Re: [RBW] Re: Saddle height vs PBH

[Jeff Lesperance]

I've never measured saddle height, well, I suppose I tried once and I
observed that there appeared to be enough room for error and variability in
measuring based on the type and position of my saddle that I wasn't sure I
could use a tape measure measurement as a baseline to set saddle height
across my array of bikes. How do you all measure consistently, and is it
necessary to take into account varying setback across different bikes?

I've mostly standardized to two different saddle models that have no
padding but do squish/deflect some (Brooks C-17 and B17 models) so saddle
make up does cause variance, but seat tube angles, seatpost setback, saddle
rail length and desired seating position (close to or further from KOPS)
pending riding style/bike style create enough perceived variability for me
that I just put the saddle where I think I want it to be fore/aft (usually
as aft as possible), put on my most common riding shoes (Keen Newports) and
put the saddle in position whereas my leg is as straight as can be when my
heel is on the pedal and the crank is straight down. From bike to bike,
across the variables I've mentioned, I've found that I've had to make up to
+/- 2 cm adjustments, but that's pretty rare, and really only tends to rear
its head as a necessity for longer-than-average mileage days. I think I
used to be more sensitive to saddle height over shorter distances when I
used foot retention, but since going to flat pedals and sandals I know that
I move my foot around on the pedal over the course of a day, not unlike the
way I move my hands around my handlebars.

-Jeff
Silver Spring, MD

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Christopher Cote <
christopherjamesc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Good point, I do shove the saddle back as far as it goes on an offset seat
> post. I've been measuring along the seat tube. That would make a difference.
>
> Chris "trigonometry" Cote
>
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