Re: [RBW] Re: Sag Wagon Camping Test Run

2017-07-14 Thread GAJett 
Many years ago I was near Salida, CO. Was intrigued that, what I would only 
describe as a bad 4x4 road actually had a County road number. (Too long ago to 
remember the number though.)
Cheers!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sag Wagon Camping Test Run

2017-07-13 Thread Deacon Patrick 
I find DeLorme Gazeteers problematic in that the road numbers often (very 
often, for entire areas) do not match the physical designations on the road 
in actuality. They also do not distinguish between 4x4 road and dirt road, 
at least in their Colorado Gazetter. Their road lines for smaller roads are 
so fine as to be challenging for me to see and follow and route find. And 
from the checks I've done vs. my other maps, including Benchmark Atlases 
and Trails Illustrated, vs areas I know well, they have at least as many 
errors if not more.

That said, I have bumbled my way about with them, it just makes for more 
adventure. Sardonic grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, July 13, 2017 at 2:19:10 PM UTC-6, Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
> Thanks Garth, my go to maps are the DeLorme Gazeteers, I have quite a 
> pile. On those maps, the smallest roads often become trails, shown by a 
> broken rather than continuous line. Many of these are rideable, but also 
> many are washed out and not much fun with a bike. Thanks for the reply. 
> Steve
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 3:58 PM Garth  
> wrote:
>
>>  SureSteven, "here" as in Jefferson County Ohio, even in my own 
>> neighborhhod. There are lots of township and other local roads that may or 
>> may not always be where the maps show, it depends on the paper or online 
>> maps. I still trust a paper map more than digital ones though, and find 
>> driving with a digital device for a map instead of large paper one to take 
>> way too much attention from driving, which is the whole point of driving, 
>> to just drive !
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 8:39:13 PM UTC-4, Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>
>>> Garth, without prying where is "all over the place Here" for a bit of 
>>> context. Steve
>>>
>> Plymouth, NH 
>>>
>> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 7:23 PM Garth  wrote:
>>>
>> There's nothing like actually being there !

 We have roads all over the place here that are shown on various local 
 paper maps but do not exist. Online maps are all incorrect also. so 
 much for maps.  For entertainment use only it seems !

 Beauty is everywhere in the Beautiful Eye .

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>>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>>
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> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sag Wagon Camping Test Run

2017-07-13 Thread Steven Sweedler 
Thanks Garth, my go to maps are the DeLorme Gazeteers, I have quite a pile.
On those maps, the smallest roads often become trails, shown by a broken
rather than continuous line. Many of these are rideable, but also many are
washed out and not much fun with a bike. Thanks for the reply. Steve
On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 3:58 PM Garth  wrote:

>  SureSteven, "here" as in Jefferson County Ohio, even in my own
> neighborhhod. There are lots of township and other local roads that may or
> may not always be where the maps show, it depends on the paper or online
> maps. I still trust a paper map more than digital ones though, and find
> driving with a digital device for a map instead of large paper one to take
> way too much attention from driving, which is the whole point of driving,
> to just drive !
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 8:39:13 PM UTC-4, Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
>> Garth, without prying where is "all over the place Here" for a bit of
>> context. Steve
>>
> Plymouth, NH
>>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 7:23 PM Garth  wrote:
>>
> There's nothing like actually being there !
>>>
>>> We have roads all over the place here that are shown on various local
>>> paper maps but do not exist. Online maps are all incorrect also. so
>>> much for maps.  For entertainment use only it seems !
>>>
>>> Beauty is everywhere in the Beautiful Eye .
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>
>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>
>> --
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
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-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sag Wagon Camping Test Run

2017-07-13 Thread Garth 
 SureSteven, "here" as in Jefferson County Ohio, even in my own 
neighborhhod. There are lots of township and other local roads that may or 
may not always be where the maps show, it depends on the paper or online 
maps. I still trust a paper map more than digital ones though, and find 
driving with a digital device for a map instead of large paper one to take 
way too much attention from driving, which is the whole point of driving, 
to just drive !



On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 8:39:13 PM UTC-4, Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
> Garth, without prying where is "all over the place Here" for a bit of 
> context. Steve
> Plymouth, NH 
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 7:23 PM Garth  
> wrote:
>
>> There's nothing like actually being there !
>>
>> We have roads all over the place here that are shown on various local 
>> paper maps but do not exist. Online maps are all incorrect also. so 
>> much for maps.  For entertainment use only it seems !
>>
>> Beauty is everywhere in the Beautiful Eye .
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
> -- 
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sag Wagon Camping Test Run

2017-07-12 Thread Steven Sweedler 
Garth, without prying where is "all over the place Here" for a bit of
context. Steve
Plymouth, NH
On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 7:23 PM Garth  wrote:

> There's nothing like actually being there !
>
> We have roads all over the place here that are shown on various local
> paper maps but do not exist. Online maps are all incorrect also. so
> much for maps.  For entertainment use only it seems !
>
> Beauty is everywhere in the Beautiful Eye .
>
> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>
-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] Re: Sag Wagon Camping Test Run

2017-07-12 Thread Tim Butterfield 
Patrick,

That sounds fun.  Even modern data can be a bit off.  We once took a drive
in our low slung 2004 Audi S4 to our farm in the Missouri Ozarks.  I set
the nearly new Garmin GPS to keep us off of the interstates and it surely
did that.  It routed us on one road that dwindled to gravel and then to
barely visible tracks in the overgrown grass of the cow pasture we crossed
before it turned back into gravel on the other side.  I'm not sure I would
really classify what we crossed as a 'road' in the normal sense of the
word.  There might have once been a road there, but it disappeared long
before the GPS used the data.  Still, it was a fun and interesting
diversion.  My AHH would be a better candidate for traversing it than the
S4.

Even local knowledge can be less than helpful when it depends on
familiarity.  For example, after just moving to a new area in NC, my wife
once received instructions, "Go up til you get to the Brown's farm and take
a right" like she was supposed to know where that was.  :)

Tim

On Wed, Jul 12, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> The road did not exist. Here's the response from the map company... not
> very reassuring, but I'm not sure what might be more reassuring. Sardonic
> grin. Rather reminds me of the first backbacking trip my wife and I took in
> the San Juans. Trail vanished an hour in to the second day. That should
> have been our clue to turn around. Instead I taught her how to triangulate
> via map and compass and we did great until the third day when we couldn't
> find the lake we were heading to. Anywhere. Figuring we were lost, we
> worked our way out to the Million Dollar Highway (we were going from Ouray
> to Silverton). We learned we were in the right spot, but the lake had been
> mined under. Checked the date on your USGS maps. 1954. This was 1990. Oops.
> That's when we learned to ask locally. For all the good it did with the
> vanished road. Sardonic grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
> ~~~
> It looks like we are wrong in showing FR254 connecting to County Rd 59.
> Attached are screenshots from our atlas, Google Maps, Google Streetview,
> and the MVUM (motor vehicle use map) for South Park Ranger District of
> Pike-San Isabel NF.
>
> You can see that our atlas shows what is seen in Streetview as the through
> 4WD rd. This is wrong as you found out.
>
> The MVUM map, published this year by the Forest Service is what we should
> show, and will show in the next edition of the CO atlas. FR 254 is
> accessible from FR890 and ends well short of County Rd 59. Here is a link
> to this free map via the Pike-San Isabel NF website.
> https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd544976.pdf
>
> Maybe this road did connect at one time, the data we used for CO certainly
> says so.
>
> I hope this helps clear up the discrepancy.
> ~~~
>
> On Wednesday, July 5, 2017 at 5:13:59 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> In which we discover families love the flexibility of riding some, all,
>> or none of a given days ride, maps and signs don’t always agree and who’s
>> to say who’s right, roads on the map may or may not exist in reality, and
>> aspen shade on a hot day of climbing is delightful.
>> http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/test-run-for-sag-wagon-camping
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> www.CredoFamily.org
>> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>>
>>
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