Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
Congrats! It will be a great ride. Are you going Albas for the cockpit? On Sep 20, 2014, at 5:03 PM, DS davecst...@gmail.com wrote: alright, #@)* it. getting a cheviot. rode one today a bit around walnut creek. so long hard earned money. hello new bike (next month). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
Yep - I really wanted a bike that worked well with Albatross bars and the Cheviot I read was built around it. My other bikes are a Hunq/Albastache and Gunnar/drops. Only thing I need to add now is a quickbeam or quickbeam successor with Jitensha bars. And my life will be complete. No more new bikes. No more bike tinkering. I can live peacefully. N + 1 will just be 'N' ;) On Saturday, September 20, 2014 6:35:26 PM UTC-7, danmc wrote: Congrats! It will be a great ride. Are you going Albas for the cockpit? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
I did look into they Yves a bit and kind of remember it from the website back in the day when I could only window shop. Totally open to that too. Can't recall every seeing one pop up for sale on the list or my saved ebay searches though. On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 9:53 PM, 'hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: DS, if you are leaning towards a Mixte have you considered a discontinued Betty Foy or the manly Yves Gomez? I ask, because I see a trend happening at Rivendell where the chain stays keep getting longer and longer. And I think the chain stays on the Chevoit are longer than the previous model, and future models (i.e. Clem Smith and mystery bike) may be even longer. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but shorter chain stays do make for a sportier ride, and this feature could become non-existent in Rivendell's future entry level line-up. I have a Sam and I'm glad I do. I'm sorry to see them go, and suspect they will never be back; just like the Quickbeam, Simpleone, Bomba-whatever and so on. JMHO, Matt On Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:57:43 PM UTC-7, DS wrote: While I patiently wait for a 54cm Quickbeam (ahemanyone?) to show up for sale one place or another, I'm starting to think about a Sam or Cheviot for an all rounder/commuter/child seat carrier/grocery run/dyno light and fenders/all weather/occasional road ride/s240 bike. I have a Hunqapillar that fits that bill now, but I think long term I'll leave the Hunq as a dedicated mtn bike and fix up a Sam or Cheviot as my city bike. I also have another fast-ish road bike but that doesn't and won't have any racks or fenders or lights. Or as another option, wait on these new bikes (Clem Smith and mystery bike). So, for all you Rivsters, if you were to buy a bike like that today, would you go Sam or Cheviot (since those are the lower priced models, they're the only thing on the radar). Or if you already have one for that purpose, would you stick with it or buy the other? (Personally, I'm leaning towards the Cheviot as having a step through in conjunction with a stem mounted child seat makes getting on and off the bike easier. But in a few years that won't matter, and these bikes are a buy it for life, or a long time anyway). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/HahmkuphNjM/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
I was rather surprised to find that the chainstays of my Ram are 1-1.5 cm shorter than those on my 2 customs -- 43.5 per the geom chart versus 44.5 (center of horizontal dropouts) and yet the customs handle a bit quicker than does the Ram. The customs exhibit an unerring straight line stability while having perfectly intuitive turn-in. The Ram is more stable but slightly more sluggish in the turn-in. In fact, the two customs -- pure road machines -- have stays as long as those on the Fargo. On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 10:27 AM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Matt I was merely pointing out the counter-opinion to your humble opinion that chainstay length has something to do with ride quality. Your opinion is the majority opinion, no question. Jan and Grant have a different opinion, that's all. They are in the minority, but they might be right. On Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:53:40 PM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote: [...] shorter chain stays do make for a sportier ride, and this feature could become non-existent in Rivendell's future entry level line-up. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
I buy into the idea that it's all a matter of how upright you sit. When you sit way upright (as encouraged by Cheviot and Appaloosa) the center of mass does move backward. In that case, lengthening the support base through longer chainstay seems to make sense. Rivs' chainstays have generally lengthened during a number of years that has coincided with new, more upright cockpit options. -Jim W. -Original Message- From: Bill Lindsay <tapebu...@gmail.com>Sent: Sep 19, 2014 7:10 AM To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com Subject: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder? Jan disagrees with the notion that short chainstays result in a sportier ride. "Some riders and builders believe that longer chainstays make the bike more stableIn practice, we have found chainstay length does not noticeably influence the bike's stability."Bicycle Quarterly Volume 10 No 2. page 46.Jan goes on to describe the controlled experiment he conducted to arrive at his conclusion that chainstay length doesn't matter. One of the many topics where Jan and Grant agree, and disagree with a lot of conventional wisdom. I've ridden the Betty Foy, the Cheviut and the Appaloosa, and they are all incredibly fun to ride. On Thursday, September 18, 2014 9:53:40 PM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote: DS, if you are leaning towards a Mixte have you considered a discontinued Betty Foy or the manly Yves Gomez? I ask, because I see a trend happening at Rivendell where the chain stays keep getting longer and longer. And I "think" the chain stays on the Chevoit are longer than the previous model, and future models (i.e. Clem Smith and mystery bike) may be even longer. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but shorter chain stays do make for a sportier ride, and this feature could become non-existent in Rivendell's future entry level line-up. I have a Sam and I'm glad I do. I'm sorry to see them go, and suspect they will never be back; just like the Quickbeam, Simpleone, Bomba-whatever and so on. JMHO, Matt On Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:57:43 PM UTC-7, DS wrote: While I patiently wait for a 54cm Quickbeam (ahemanyone?) to show up for sale one place or another, I'm starting to think about a Sam or Cheviot for an all rounder/commuter/child seat carrier/grocery run/dyno light and fenders/all weather/occasional road ride/s240 bike. I have a Hunqapillar that fits that bill now, but I think long term I'll leave the Hunq as a dedicated mtn bike and fix up a Sam or Cheviot as my city bike. I also have another fast-ish road bike but that doesn't and won't have any racks or fenders or lights. Or as another option, wait on these new bikes (Clem Smith and mystery bike). So, for all you Rivsters, if you were to buy a bike like that today, would you go Sam or Cheviot (since those are the lower priced models, they're the only thing on the radar). Or if you already have one for that purpose, would you stick with it or buy the other? (Personally, I'm leaning towards the Cheviot as having a step through in conjunction with a stem mounted child seat makes getting on and off the bike easier. But in a few years that won't matter, and these bikes are a buy it for life, or a long time anyway).-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
Yeah, I don't know about that color, maybe it looks awesome in person, anyway...already got a green bike ;). Isn't the whole n+1 thing about collecting colors anyway? On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: I'd preorder a Cheviut in that swank new metallic barfo green. You can be the first person to get one! On Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:57:43 PM UTC-7, DS wrote: While I patiently wait for a 54cm Quickbeam (ahemanyone?) to show up for sale one place or another, I'm starting to think about a Sam or Cheviot for an all rounder/commuter/child seat carrier/grocery run/dyno light and fenders/all weather/occasional road ride/s240 bike. I have a Hunqapillar that fits that bill now, but I think long term I'll leave the Hunq as a dedicated mtn bike and fix up a Sam or Cheviot as my city bike. I also have another fast-ish road bike but that doesn't and won't have any racks or fenders or lights. Or as another option, wait on these new bikes (Clem Smith and mystery bike). So, for all you Rivsters, if you were to buy a bike like that today, would you go Sam or Cheviot (since those are the lower priced models, they're the only thing on the radar). Or if you already have one for that purpose, would you stick with it or buy the other? (Personally, I'm leaning towards the Cheviot as having a step through in conjunction with a stem mounted child seat makes getting on and off the bike easier. But in a few years that won't matter, and these bikes are a buy it for life, or a long time anyway). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/HahmkuphNjM/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
Color collecting is a big part of it. I was projecting my desire for a barfo green Cheviut onto you. I already have three orange bikes and zero green ones, so On Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:30:39 PM UTC-7, DS wrote: Yeah, I don't know about that color, maybe it looks awesome in person, anyway...already got a green bike ;). Isn't the whole n+1 thing about collecting colors anyway? On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Bill Lindsay tape...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I'd preorder a Cheviut in that swank new metallic barfo green. You can be the first person to get one! On Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:57:43 PM UTC-7, DS wrote: While I patiently wait for a 54cm Quickbeam (ahemanyone?) to show up for sale one place or another, I'm starting to think about a Sam or Cheviot for an all rounder/commuter/child seat carrier/grocery run/dyno light and fenders/all weather/occasional road ride/s240 bike. I have a Hunqapillar that fits that bill now, but I think long term I'll leave the Hunq as a dedicated mtn bike and fix up a Sam or Cheviot as my city bike. I also have another fast-ish road bike but that doesn't and won't have any racks or fenders or lights. Or as another option, wait on these new bikes (Clem Smith and mystery bike). So, for all you Rivsters, if you were to buy a bike like that today, would you go Sam or Cheviot (since those are the lower priced models, they're the only thing on the radar). Or if you already have one for that purpose, would you stick with it or buy the other? (Personally, I'm leaning towards the Cheviot as having a step through in conjunction with a stem mounted child seat makes getting on and off the bike easier. But in a few years that won't matter, and these bikes are a buy it for life, or a long time anyway). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/HahmkuphNjM/unsubscribe . To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
I went Cheviot for just those purposes. Actually for rear-mounted child seat but the ability to stand without worry is a big plus in either child seat scenario. Also figured that a step-through frame would be a bonus as the years go by. And the Cheviot is still a great bike for trails and S24Os. The green is gong to be awesome but the orange is pretty great. Dan On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote: Color collecting is a big part of it. I was projecting my desire for a barfo green Cheviut onto you. I already have three orange bikes and zero green ones, so On Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:30:39 PM UTC-7, DS wrote: Yeah, I don't know about that color, maybe it looks awesome in person, anyway...already got a green bike ;). Isn't the whole n+1 thing about collecting colors anyway? On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Bill Lindsay tape...@gmail.com wrote: I'd preorder a Cheviut in that swank new metallic barfo green. You can be the first person to get one! On Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:57:43 PM UTC-7, DS wrote: While I patiently wait for a 54cm Quickbeam (ahemanyone?) to show up for sale one place or another, I'm starting to think about a Sam or Cheviot for an all rounder/commuter/child seat carrier/grocery run/dyno light and fenders/all weather/occasional road ride/s240 bike. I have a Hunqapillar that fits that bill now, but I think long term I'll leave the Hunq as a dedicated mtn bike and fix up a Sam or Cheviot as my city bike. I also have another fast-ish road bike but that doesn't and won't have any racks or fenders or lights. Or as another option, wait on these new bikes (Clem Smith and mystery bike). So, for all you Rivsters, if you were to buy a bike like that today, would you go Sam or Cheviot (since those are the lower priced models, they're the only thing on the radar). Or if you already have one for that purpose, would you stick with it or buy the other? (Personally, I'm leaning towards the Cheviot as having a step through in conjunction with a stem mounted child seat makes getting on and off the bike easier. But in a few years that won't matter, and these bikes are a buy it for life, or a long time anyway). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ topic/rbw-owners-bunch/HahmkuphNjM/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
Step-throughs are really great. Can't say enough good things about them! On Thursday, September 18, 2014 3:41:09 PM UTC-7, danmc wrote: I went Cheviot for just those purposes. Actually for rear-mounted child seat but the ability to stand without worry is a big plus in either child seat scenario. Also figured that a step-through frame would be a bonus as the years go by. And the Cheviot is still a great bike for trails and S24Os. The green is gong to be awesome but the orange is pretty great. Dan On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Bill Lindsay tape...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Color collecting is a big part of it. I was projecting my desire for a barfo green Cheviut onto you. I already have three orange bikes and zero green ones, so On Thursday, September 18, 2014 1:30:39 PM UTC-7, DS wrote: Yeah, I don't know about that color, maybe it looks awesome in person, anyway...already got a green bike ;). Isn't the whole n+1 thing about collecting colors anyway? On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Bill Lindsay tape...@gmail.com wrote: I'd preorder a Cheviut in that swank new metallic barfo green. You can be the first person to get one! On Thursday, September 18, 2014 12:57:43 PM UTC-7, DS wrote: While I patiently wait for a 54cm Quickbeam (ahemanyone?) to show up for sale one place or another, I'm starting to think about a Sam or Cheviot for an all rounder/commuter/child seat carrier/grocery run/dyno light and fenders/all weather/occasional road ride/s240 bike. I have a Hunqapillar that fits that bill now, but I think long term I'll leave the Hunq as a dedicated mtn bike and fix up a Sam or Cheviot as my city bike. I also have another fast-ish road bike but that doesn't and won't have any racks or fenders or lights. Or as another option, wait on these new bikes (Clem Smith and mystery bike). So, for all you Rivsters, if you were to buy a bike like that today, would you go Sam or Cheviot (since those are the lower priced models, they're the only thing on the radar). Or if you already have one for that purpose, would you stick with it or buy the other? (Personally, I'm leaning towards the Cheviot as having a step through in conjunction with a stem mounted child seat makes getting on and off the bike easier. But in a few years that won't matter, and these bikes are a buy it for life, or a long time anyway). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/ topic/rbw-owners-bunch/HahmkuphNjM/unsubscribe. To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
Thinking about it for a bit, the only drawback to the Cheviot is the lack of bottle cage mounts. The 55 has one. A second one could go on the down tube as on the Sam. Sure there is a reason for it being the way it is. Using a Pass and Stow porteur rack with a Freight Baggage rack bag so there plenty of room to carry additional liquids. But it is a minus for riding without the rack and bag. On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Will waller.will...@gmail.com wrote: Cheviot. Three reasons: 1) long chainstays give you great pannier clearance. 2) the second set of seat stays = really strong rear triangle = great for cargo trailers. 3) mixte bikes are less attractive to thieves. On Thursday, September 18, 2014 2:57:43 PM UTC-5, DS wrote: While I patiently wait for a 54cm Quickbeam (ahemanyone?) to show up for sale one place or another, I'm starting to think about a Sam or Cheviot for an all rounder/commuter/child seat carrier/grocery run/dyno light and fenders/all weather/occasional road ride/s240 bike. I have a Hunqapillar that fits that bill now, but I think long term I'll leave the Hunq as a dedicated mtn bike and fix up a Sam or Cheviot as my city bike. I also have another fast-ish road bike but that doesn't and won't have any racks or fenders or lights. Or as another option, wait on these new bikes (Clem Smith and mystery bike). So, for all you Rivsters, if you were to buy a bike like that today, would you go Sam or Cheviot (since those are the lower priced models, they're the only thing on the radar). Or if you already have one for that purpose, would you stick with it or buy the other? (Personally, I'm leaning towards the Cheviot as having a step through in conjunction with a stem mounted child seat makes getting on and off the bike easier. But in a few years that won't matter, and these bikes are a buy it for life, or a long time anyway). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Sam or Cheviot - what would you get for an all rounder?
A lot of love for the Cheviot! The single set of water bottle mounts is strange for rivendell. But agreed, the only time i'd really need two sets are for s240's and i can carry additional water in a rack or bag at that point. Step thru definitely seems to be an important piece here. And I definitely thought about theft appeal on Cheviot v. Sam. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
