Re: [RBW] Re: YAHT (Yet Another Handlebar Thread) :D

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

I couldn't remember offhand while drafting my initial reply exactly which 
new Crust drop offering I was thinking, but I remembered among their 
various models there was one with a more classic general shape, 26.0 clamp, 
and longer ramps than the Noodle and Nitto RM-013.  It's the Bonneville and 
comes in a 52cm end to end measurement with 46mm hood/ramp spacing similar 
to both the 52cm RM-013 or 48cm Noodle.  This is on my own shortlist of 
those I'd eventually like to compare to my RM-013 for the extra reach/ramp 
length.  Just putting this here before I forget and in case it helps your 
or anyone on a similar journey and following this discussion.
https://crustbikes.com/collections/handlebars/products/nitto-x-crust-bonneville-bar
On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 4:52:10 PM UTC-5 Coal Bee Rye Anne wrote:

> Hi Modemmisuser,
>
> Best of luck on your bar search and congrats to your spouse on her return 
> to cycling!  I certainly endorse bar/stem swapping... both on the bike and 
> off the bike (via trades.)  I have been in your scenario feeling 'meh' with 
> certain set-ups and previously bought some new parts here or there to try 
> when I actually had some disposable income as well as more free time for 
> wrenching.  Since then my available funds and free time have significantly 
> reduced but I've still managed to opportunistically offload and obtain 
> various bars and components through mutually beneficial trades in recent 
> years with the added bonus of simply covering your own shipping, thus 
> avoiding any other exchange of funds in many cases.  They don't all 
> necessarily balance out exactly and some were larger or more complex multi 
> component trade arrangements growing out of a single WTT/WTB or FS post 
> while some had occasional partial fund exchanges to offset value 
> imbalances, etc.  Some just end up lopsided on the shipping end but 
> ultimately it's been a wash in my view even if on the losing end of a 
> shipping disparity as it's helped reduce my own excess while gaining 
> something desired and avoiding managing my own garage sale of spare parts.  
> That may sound like I'm against selling parts.  I'm NOT!  I just know I 
> don't personally have the capacity right now to manage my own listings and 
> then add some seller remorse from a part here or there so I've kind of 
> hoarded what remains while awaiting an opportune moment to either use, 
> trade, or sell when ready.  Sorry for the digression, that's not even 
> relevant to your query.
>
> With so many drop bars out there I'm sure there may be one that will meet 
> all your needs and may take time to try and identify it.  It may even 
> require a compromise on stem preference or aesthetics if willing to 
> consider other clamp diameters.  I may have missed it but don't think you 
> mentioned what exact size Noodle you have?  I went through several 
> different bars and ultimately found the Nitto RM013 (in 52cm) got me about 
> 90% where I wanted to be with drops once I acquired the wider size.  I was 
> initially very confused on how so many drops are sized differently... even 
> among Nitto made models like the Noodle vs. RM-013 Dirt Drop which are 
> measured completely different for size designation!  Once I got to try the 
> next size up (finding my middle sized 48cm just a little too narrow for me) 
> I found a near goldilocks bar offering most of what I wanted in a varied 
> drop and liked the unique drop only flare with traditional ramps for mixed 
> terrain riding.  Now I'm back to lacking a drop bar build with the dirt 
> drops in reserve again.
>
> I tried RM-016 Moustache as well as a butterfly trekking bar on various 
> builds and these comparisons led me to believe I'd like an Albastache to 
> kind of meet in the middle between the two styles/widths but then I 
> ultimately found some unexpected results with both a Chocomoose as well as 
> a Soma Urban Pursuit bar.  These are now mounted on two different builds 
> but actually have similar characteristics in their long uninterrupted 
> 'ramp' type grip area once I switched to bar end brake levers and a full 
> grip tape wrap from end to stem junction on the Chocomoose.  On the Soma 
> pursuit bar the bar end brake levers are out front kind of like hooded road 
> levers and have nice and looong, flat ramp sections giving lots of room to 
> move.  These are admittedly on single speeds with no concern for shifter 
> placement but with potential for thumb or stem shifters away from the grip 
> areas.  I briefly used the Urban Pursuit bar with a traditional Sturmey 
> Archer three speed trigger shifter mounted on the bottom side of the right 
> corner along the flats with tape over the clamp and that worked pretty well 
> until I went a different direction with the bike.  You obviously lose the 
> drop area when moving to something like the moustache, pursuit, or Choco 
> bar but once I realized I appreciated having a long uninterrupted grip to 
> move around I 

Re: [RBW] Re: YAHT (Yet Another Handlebar Thread) :D

[Coal Bee Rye Anne]

Hi Modemmisuser,

Best of luck on your bar search and congrats to your spouse on her return 
to cycling!  I certainly endorse bar/stem swapping... both on the bike and 
off the bike (via trades.)  I have been in your scenario feeling 'meh' with 
certain set-ups and previously bought some new parts here or there to try 
when I actually had some disposable income as well as more free time for 
wrenching.  Since then my available funds and free time have significantly 
reduced but I've still managed to opportunistically offload and obtain 
various bars and components through mutually beneficial trades in recent 
years with the added bonus of simply covering your own shipping, thus 
avoiding any other exchange of funds in many cases.  They don't all 
necessarily balance out exactly and some were larger or more complex multi 
component trade arrangements growing out of a single WTT/WTB or FS post 
while some had occasional partial fund exchanges to offset value 
imbalances, etc.  Some just end up lopsided on the shipping end but 
ultimately it's been a wash in my view even if on the losing end of a 
shipping disparity as it's helped reduce my own excess while gaining 
something desired and avoiding managing my own garage sale of spare parts.  
That may sound like I'm against selling parts.  I'm NOT!  I just know I 
don't personally have the capacity right now to manage my own listings and 
then add some seller remorse from a part here or there so I've kind of 
hoarded what remains while awaiting an opportune moment to either use, 
trade, or sell when ready.  Sorry for the digression, that's not even 
relevant to your query.

With so many drop bars out there I'm sure there may be one that will meet 
all your needs and may take time to try and identify it.  It may even 
require a compromise on stem preference or aesthetics if willing to 
consider other clamp diameters.  I may have missed it but don't think you 
mentioned what exact size Noodle you have?  I went through several 
different bars and ultimately found the Nitto RM013 (in 52cm) got me about 
90% where I wanted to be with drops once I acquired the wider size.  I was 
initially very confused on how so many drops are sized differently... even 
among Nitto made models like the Noodle vs. RM-013 Dirt Drop which are 
measured completely different for size designation!  Once I got to try the 
next size up (finding my middle sized 48cm just a little too narrow for me) 
I found a near goldilocks bar offering most of what I wanted in a varied 
drop and liked the unique drop only flare with traditional ramps for mixed 
terrain riding.  Now I'm back to lacking a drop bar build with the dirt 
drops in reserve again.

I tried RM-016 Moustache as well as a butterfly trekking bar on various 
builds and these comparisons led me to believe I'd like an Albastache to 
kind of meet in the middle between the two styles/widths but then I 
ultimately found some unexpected results with both a Chocomoose as well as 
a Soma Urban Pursuit bar.  These are now mounted on two different builds 
but actually have similar characteristics in their long uninterrupted 
'ramp' type grip area once I switched to bar end brake levers and a full 
grip tape wrap from end to stem junction on the Chocomoose.  On the Soma 
pursuit bar the bar end brake levers are out front kind of like hooded road 
levers and have nice and looong, flat ramp sections giving lots of room to 
move.  These are admittedly on single speeds with no concern for shifter 
placement but with potential for thumb or stem shifters away from the grip 
areas.  I briefly used the Urban Pursuit bar with a traditional Sturmey 
Archer three speed trigger shifter mounted on the bottom side of the right 
corner along the flats with tape over the clamp and that worked pretty well 
until I went a different direction with the bike.  You obviously lose the 
drop area when moving to something like the moustache, pursuit, or Choco 
bar but once I realized I appreciated having a long uninterrupted grip to 
move around I didn't really miss the drop on those builds that much.

At one point I really liked *most *things about the widest Salsa Cowbell 
EXCEPT the reach and short ramp.  Maybe on a geared road bike with big 
brifters I wouldn't have minded but with the non-brifter Tektro levers I 
was using I just couldn't find a happy spot along the short ramps and 
didn't like being limited to the hood itself.  Otherwise the width, flare, 
drops, flats all felt great (to me) after ruling out various other drops.

Again, best of luck on your bar adventure!

Brian Cole




On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 3:34:59 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Fwiw, just a few observations in case they help someone find an ideal bar 
> shape.
>
> For a medium+ size American man (ideal level tt size is 60 c-c), I've got 
> relatively short arms and small hands, and yet my favorite bar of all time 
> is a long reach traditional bend Maes Parallel, precisely because 

Re: [RBW] Re: YAHT (Yet Another Handlebar Thread) :D

[Patrick Moore]

Fwiw, just a few observations in case they help someone find an ideal bar
shape.

For a medium+ size American man (ideal level tt size is 60 c-c), I've got
relatively short arms and small hands, and yet my favorite bar of all time
is a long reach traditional bend Maes Parallel, precisely because of the
long ramps. I install my bars with ends parallel to the ground, and that
does effectively shorten the ramps somewhat, since I like my brake levers
positioned rather higher than the old-fasiohned "ends of lever even with
bottom of hooks" standard, but nonetheless it is the long ramps of the MP
-- 115 mm, 20 mm longer than the Noodle. The difference is the relatively
shallow drop: 125 mm versus 140 mm. I make up for the longer reach with a
relatively short stem: 8 cm (typical effective length and not Nitto
length).

I switched from short reach (95 mm) large drop (140 mm) Nitto drop bar with
agressive hooks* to the Maes Parallels. I compensated by raising the stem
from 7.5  cm below saddle to the current 3-3.5 cm below saddle to
accommodate an aging neck, but the longer ramps still allow a comfortable
aero position on the hoods and in the hooks because of the longer reach,
while the middle of the long ramps allow a more upright cruising position
and the flats are closer, thanks to the higher stem, than with the earlier
one. Altogether the best of all worlds, imo.

* Nitto 165? IIRC the Nitto Dream Bar, #176, was a Rivendell modification
of the one I have in mind.

OTOH, if you want what is effectively a no-reach bar: I installed a
Specialized Hover bar on the Monocog because even trimmed and adjusted
upright bar (MAP/Ahearne) with Ergon grips were not as comfortable as
drops; yet I needed a short bar to compensate for the long top tube.

With a 7 cm +30* stem the Hover gives me a riding position rather more
upright and relaxed than my already rather relaxed road drop position,
though with the Monocog I could probably benefit even further with a
miniscule 30 mm or so reach Analog stem, as long as the rise was great
enough. The Hover has essentially no ramps between flat and hoods, only
enough required by the bends in the tubing. It's pretty comfortable, but
even better would be a sufficiently high no-extension stem with -- yep, a
wider Maes Parallel. If I replace the Moncog and can't get a custom with
short top tube, I'll use an Analog stem and a wide 44 cm Maes Parallel a cm
or 2 above saddle.


On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 12:46 PM Elisabeth Sherwood <
elisabeth.sherw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Modemmisuser,
>
> Just my $0.02, but as someone who could never figure out the attraction of
> Nitto Noodles (I have relatively short arms and small hands, so any
> remotely long-reach handlebar will just never work...), I find Soma's
> Highway One (Hwy 1) handlebar to be just perfect -- short reach,
> shallow-ish drop, comfortable bends.  (Absence of pressure on hands in our
> cases is probably the result of other aspects of the set-up, though.)
>
> I've had it on my Saluki, and it's currently on a Bianchi Volpe that's
> done up with silver bits.  My boyfriend uses it on his Sam Hillborne (2008
> or so vintage) and his Long Haul Trucker.  I use STI levers with it;
> boyfriend has bar ends, for the moment, on both of his set-ups.  Super
> comfortable.
>
> As they say, though, your mileage may vary!  Good luck!
>
> -- Liz
> Washington, DC
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: YAHT (Yet Another Handlebar Thread) :D

[Patrick Moore]

Fwiw, just a few observations in case they help someone find an ideal bar
shape.

For a medium+ size American man (ideal level tt size is 60 c-c), I've got
relatively short arms and small hands, and yet my favorite bar of all time
is a long reach traditional bend Maes Parallel, precisely because of the
long ramps. I install my bars with ends parallel to the ground, and that
does effectively shorten the ramps somewhat, since I like my brake levers
positioned rather higher than the old-fasiohned "ends of lever even with
bottom of hooks" standard, but nonetheless it is the long ramps of the MP
-- 115 mm, 20 mm longer than the Noodle. The difference is the relatively
shallow drop: 125 mm versus 140 mm. I make up for the longer reach with a
relatively short stem: 8 cm (typical effective length and not Nitto
length).

I switched from short reach (95 mm) large drop (140 mm) Nitto drop bar with
agressive hooks* to the Maes Parallels. I compensated by raising the stem
from 7.5  cm below saddle to the current 3-3.5 cm below saddle to
accommodate an aging neck, but the longer ramps still allow a comfortable
aero position on the hoods and in the hooks because of the longer reach,
while the middle of the long ramps allow a more upright cruising position
and the flats are closer, thanks to the higher stem, than with the earlier
one. Altogether the best of all worlds, imo.

* Nitto 165? IIRC the Nitto Dream Bar, #176, was a Rivendell modification
of the one I have in mind.



On Fri, Nov 17, 2023 at 12:46 PM Elisabeth Sherwood <
elisabeth.sherw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Modemmisuser,
>
> Just my $0.02, but as someone who could never figure out the attraction of
> Nitto Noodles (I have relatively short arms and small hands, so any
> remotely long-reach handlebar will just never work...), I find Soma's
> Highway One (Hwy 1) handlebar to be just perfect -- short reach,
> shallow-ish drop, comfortable bends.  (Absence of pressure on hands in our
> cases is probably the result of other aspects of the set-up, though.)
>
> I've had it on my Saluki, and it's currently on a Bianchi Volpe that's
> done up with silver bits.  My boyfriend uses it on his Sam Hillborne (2008
> or so vintage) and his Long Haul Trucker.  I use STI levers with it;
> boyfriend has bar ends, for the moment, on both of his set-ups.  Super
> comfortable.
>
> As they say, though, your mileage may vary!  Good luck!
>
> -- Liz
> Washington, DC
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 9:54:02 AM UTC-5 modemm...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I have a 2016 Sam, from the batch of completes that year.  I love the
>> bike, and now that I'm riding a lot more (my wife was gifted with being
>> able to ride again after not being able to for years; she has a '16 Sam
>> too), I swapped bars from the stock (Nitto Noodle) to an Albastache.
>>
>> The Noodle was only giving me ONE hand position, on the hoods.  The drops
>> didn't feel usable to me and the flats are just too narrow for my comfort.
>> The hoods position was putting a lot of pressure on the meaty part of my
>> hands behind the thumbs.
>>
>> The 'Stache fixes that and gives me a lot of hand positions - on the
>> "hoods" (but it's a big flat on the 'Stache of course), behind them, and
>> pretty much all along the rest of the bar.  I like it, but...
>>
>> I do miss the hand position that only comes from having a drop bar on
>> being on those hoods in that orientation; I just need one that will put
>> them in a spot that doesn't put all the weight on the meaty-hand-part
>> behind the thumbs.
>>
>> I have to admit I also miss how the bike looks with a drop bar. O_o  I
>> dunno, I guess the bike just "wants" that look, to me.
>>
>> I'd also like to not run the shifters as barend shifters... So I'd go
>> thumbie or some type of (S DON'T TELL GRANT) brifter.
>>
>> The other issue I don't have access to the funds that some others around
>> here seem to. :)  These bikes were EXPENSIVE to us ($2,600 a pop and we've
>> added front and rear racks, fenders, etc.)
>>
>> Ideas, comments, questions, help, etc, etc?  I'm sure lots around here
>> have Sams and have done this handlebar/cockpit rodeo lots of times!
>>
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> 
> .
>


-- 
-
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Executive