Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Philip Williamson]

Extra drag on a coaster brake? No. 
Big drag rebuilding the hub with two kinds of grease? Yes. 


Philip
Santa Rosa, CA 


On Sunday, January 14, 2018 at 2:05:00 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Thanks. 2 more questions:
>
> Did you feel any additional drag with the coaster brake edition?
>
> And: do you feel safe riding a freewheel with just a front brake? (A 
> second brake of course is largely for backup purposes, since most braking 
> is done with the front.) I know that British Racing Tr*cycles have only 
> front braking, but also have 2 front brakes controlled by the 2 levers, not 
> for more braking power but for backup. But I have been tempted ...
>
> I don't care about flipping the cranks at stops; I'd find that only a 
> minor annoyance.
>
> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 9:52 PM, Philip Williamson  > wrote:
>
>> I’m pretty happy with the S2. I sold the original Quickbeam wheelset to a 
>> friend, so I’ll probably keep the S2 for another year or so. The overdrive 
>> feels fine, and I’ve come to enjoy the click-click-click of the high gear.
>>
>> I had a vintage 2 speed automatic wheel with a coaster brake, and the 
>> brake was kind of a buzz-kill. You can’t flip the cranks around at a light 
>> in the same way that you can with a fixed or coasting drivetrain, and the 
>> hub is heavy. I’d put a rear brake on or risk a front brake failure before 
>> I used a coaster brake again.
>>
>> Philip
>> Santa Rosa, CA
>>
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>
>
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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks. 2 more questions:

Did you feel any additional drag with the coaster brake edition?

And: do you feel safe riding a freewheel with just a front brake? (A second
brake of course is largely for backup purposes, since most braking is done
with the front.) I know that British Racing Tr*cycles have only front
braking, but also have 2 front brakes controlled by the 2 levers, not for
more braking power but for backup. But I have been tempted ...

I don't care about flipping the cranks at stops; I'd find that only a minor
annoyance.

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 9:52 PM, Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’m pretty happy with the S2. I sold the original Quickbeam wheelset to a
> friend, so I’ll probably keep the S2 for another year or so. The overdrive
> feels fine, and I’ve come to enjoy the click-click-click of the high gear.
>
> I had a vintage 2 speed automatic wheel with a coaster brake, and the
> brake was kind of a buzz-kill. You can’t flip the cranks around at a light
> in the same way that you can with a fixed or coasting drivetrain, and the
> hub is heavy. I’d put a rear brake on or risk a front brake failure before
> I used a coaster brake again.
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Joe Bernard]

My bad..three clamps, not four. 

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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Philip Williamson]

I’m pretty happy with the S2. I sold the original Quickbeam wheelset to a 
friend, so I’ll probably keep the S2 for another year or so. The overdrive 
feels fine, and I’ve come to enjoy the click-click-click of the high gear. 

I had a vintage 2 speed automatic wheel with a coaster brake, and the brake was 
kind of a buzz-kill. You can’t flip the cranks around at a light in the same 
way that you can with a fixed or coasting drivetrain, and the hub is heavy. I’d 
put a rear brake on or risk a front brake failure before I used a coaster brake 
again.

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Joe Bernard]

Yep, you can mount two cogs with four of these things for a 2-speed, or just 
use spacers. RBW sells both, plus several sizes of single cogs.

 GearClamp SingleSpeed Conversion Kit for Shimano/SRAM Freehub, each (n – 
Rivendell Bicycle Works
https://www.rivbike.com/collections/cassettes/products/gear-clamp-ss

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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Ian A]

Doug

You are correct in your assumption that cassette hubs are incompatible with 
freewheels. You can quite easily make a cassette hub a single speed with cog 
and spacer kits. 

IanA

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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Eric Norris]

Doug:

You can turn your freewheel into a single (and probably two-speed) with 
spacers. There are kits out there to do this.

Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Jan 13, 2018, at 11:47 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> 
> The ENO is a screw-on freewheel.
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 7:27 AM, Doug Bloch  wrote:
>> Thanks for the education, Phillip. Am I right that the DOS ENO only works 
>> with freewheel hubs and not cassette hubs? Forgive my ignorance.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Doug
>> 
>> On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 9:54:51 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>> > I'm a big fan of the dingle cog in practice. With two rings and a quick 
>> > release, you can manually shift very quickly by moving the axle and 
>> > rolling the bike. You'd only shift for long climbs or offroad riding. 
>> > You can't use it with a derailleur, but you could use a DOS ENO freewheel 
>> > with a derailleur. 
>> >
>> >
>> > Currently my Quickbeam has an S2 kickback hub, and my Ross has a single 
>> > fixed gear, but I'll keep the dingle cogs for the future. 
>> >
>> >
>> > Philip
>> > Santa Rosa, CA
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 8:53:04 AM UTC-8, Doug Bloch wrote:The 
>> > Dingle is one of these things I’ve suspected for awhile I would like in 
>> > theory but not in practice.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I could never get over the idea of having to stop and move the chain 
>> > manually, and I was never clear if this could be engineered to be used 
>> > with a derailleur, essentially giving you a geared fixed gear bike. The 
>> > same goes for the White Industries DOS ENO.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Doug Bloch
>> >
>> > Alameda CA USA
>> 
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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Patrick Moore]

The ENO is a screw-on freewheel.

On Sat, Jan 13, 2018 at 7:27 AM, Doug Bloch  wrote:

> Thanks for the education, Phillip. Am I right that the DOS ENO only works
> with freewheel hubs and not cassette hubs? Forgive my ignorance.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug
>
> On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 9:54:51 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
> > I'm a big fan of the dingle cog in practice. With two rings and a quick
> release, you can manually shift very quickly by moving the axle and rolling
> the bike. You'd only shift for long climbs or offroad riding.
> > You can't use it with a derailleur, but you could use a DOS ENO
> freewheel with a derailleur.
> >
> >
> > Currently my Quickbeam has an S2 kickback hub, and my Ross has a single
> fixed gear, but I'll keep the dingle cogs for the future.
> >
> >
> > Philip
> > Santa Rosa, CA
> >
> >
> >
> > On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 8:53:04 AM UTC-8, Doug Bloch wrote:The
> Dingle is one of these things I’ve suspected for awhile I would like in
> theory but not in practice.
> >
> >
> >
> > I could never get over the idea of having to stop and move the chain
> manually, and I was never clear if this could be engineered to be used with
> a derailleur, essentially giving you a geared fixed gear bike. The same
> goes for the White Industries DOS ENO.
> >
> >
> >
> > Doug Bloch
> >
> > Alameda CA USA
>
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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Doug Bloch]

Thanks for the education, Phillip. Am I right that the DOS ENO only works with 
freewheel hubs and not cassette hubs? Forgive my ignorance.

Thanks,

Doug

On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 9:54:51 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
> I'm a big fan of the dingle cog in practice. With two rings and a quick 
> release, you can manually shift very quickly by moving the axle and rolling 
> the bike. You'd only shift for long climbs or offroad riding. 
> You can't use it with a derailleur, but you could use a DOS ENO freewheel 
> with a derailleur. 
> 
> 
> Currently my Quickbeam has an S2 kickback hub, and my Ross has a single fixed 
> gear, but I'll keep the dingle cogs for the future. 
> 
> 
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 8:53:04 AM UTC-8, Doug Bloch wrote:The Dingle 
> is one of these things I’ve suspected for awhile I would like in theory but 
> not in practice.
> 
> 
> 
> I could never get over the idea of having to stop and move the chain 
> manually, and I was never clear if this could be engineered to be used with a 
> derailleur, essentially giving you a geared fixed gear bike. The same goes 
> for the White Industries DOS ENO.
> 
> 
> 
> Doug Bloch
> 
> Alameda CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Patrick Moore]

Philip: How do you like the S2 hub? Do you notice drag in overdrive?

I've seriously considered kickbacks, SRAM or SA, as second wheels for my
fixie Rivs, but unfortunately both are overdrive rather than underdrive,
requiring either swapping out a ring for a small one, or installing a cog
too large for my dropouts (if I keep the same chain, which I want to do).
Of course, with 9 speed or older SRAM masterlinks, it would be easy to
splice in or out a section of chain to accomodate a larger rear cog without
pulling the axle off the dropouts ... I certainly don't want to mess with
my rings.

For example: on the errand Riv: 48 X 17/19 Dingle with 24.75" wheel = 70"
and 63"; with 17/20 Dingle, 70 and 60. If I were to use a 24 t cog on a S2,
that would give me a 50" low/direct and a 68" overdrive.

On the gofast, I've thought of installing a kickback with coaster brake,
since the gofast has only a front caliper. 46 X 15 = 76" on the "normal "
wheel, but with a 21t cog on the S2, I'd get a 54" direct and a 75"
overdrive high.

The S2, at least the non-coaster brake one, weighs about the same as the
S3X.

I probably would have been better off with S2s than the S3X.



On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 10:54 AM, Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm a big fan of the dingle cog in practice. With two rings and a quick
> release, you can manually shift very quickly by moving the axle and rolling
> the bike. You'd only shift for long climbs or offroad riding.
> You can't use it with a derailleur, but you could use a DOS ENO freewheel
> with a derailleur.
>
> Currently my Quickbeam has an S2 kickback hub, and my Ross has a single
> fixed gear, but I'll keep the dingle cogs for the future.
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
>
>
> On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 8:53:04 AM UTC-8, Doug Bloch wrote:
>>
>> The Dingle is one of these things I’ve suspected for awhile I would like
>> in theory but not in practice.
>>
>> I could never get over the idea of having to stop and move the chain
>> manually, and I was never clear if this could be engineered to be used with
>> a derailleur, essentially giving you a geared fixed gear bike. The same
>> goes for the White Industries DOS ENO.
>>
>> Doug Bloch
>> Alameda CA USA
>
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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Patrick Moore]

As Philip said, you don't shift as with a usual multiple gear system, but
only for hills long enough to make it worthwhile. Personally, I use the
bigger of the 2 cogs very rarely, but when I do, they're useful -- eg, one
ride involves a ~ 3-4 mile climb; another a 5-6 mile climb; those make
stopping to shift, even stopping to flip a wheel around for a cog on the
other side of the hub, worth it.

You can't use any derailleur with fixed cogs (one exception) because the
momentum of the wheel/cog if you should stop pedaling to keep the ring
strictly in time with the cog will make the chain wrap up on the cog, and
if you stop pedaling fast enough long enough or suddenly enough, the chain
will yank the rd up and break it, in the same way that getting a stick into
the derailleur will break it.

There was a German rd in the 40s or 50s that could handle 2 fixed cogs if
they were no more than 2 teeth or so apart; the slack takeup requirement
was so minimal that the rd could be designed to withstand the chain wrapup
forces. At any rate, that was the idea -- it didn't last, so maybe it
didn't work.

On Fri, Jan 12, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Doug Bloch  wrote:

> The Dingle is one of these things I’ve suspected for awhile I would like
> in theory but not in practice.
>
> I could never get over the idea of having to stop and move the chain
> manually, and I was never clear if this could be engineered to be used with
> a derailleur, essentially giving you a geared fixed gear bike. The same
> goes for the White Industries DOS ENO.
>
> Doug Bloch
> Alameda CA USA
>
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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Philip Williamson]

I'm a big fan of the dingle cog in practice. With two rings and a quick 
release, you can manually shift very quickly by moving the axle and rolling 
the bike. You'd only shift for long climbs or offroad riding. 
You can't use it with a derailleur, but you could use a DOS ENO freewheel 
with a derailleur. 

Currently my Quickbeam has an S2 kickback hub, and my Ross has a single 
fixed gear, but I'll keep the dingle cogs for the future. 

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA


On Friday, January 12, 2018 at 8:53:04 AM UTC-8, Doug Bloch wrote:
>
> The Dingle is one of these things I’ve suspected for awhile I would like 
> in theory but not in practice. 
>
> I could never get over the idea of having to stop and move the chain 
> manually, and I was never clear if this could be engineered to be used with 
> a derailleur, essentially giving you a geared fixed gear bike. The same 
> goes for the White Industries DOS ENO. 
>
> Doug Bloch 
> Alameda CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Doug Bloch]

The Dingle is one of these things I’ve suspected for awhile I would like in 
theory but not in practice.

I could never get over the idea of having to stop and move the chain manually, 
and I was never clear if this could be engineered to be used with a derailleur, 
essentially giving you a geared fixed gear bike. The same goes for the White 
Industries DOS ENO.

Doug Bloch
Alameda CA USA

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Re: [RBW] Surly Dingle Cog Discontinued

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for the heads up. I ordered a couple. "ModernEbike.com" has 17/19
and 17/20 for $50 with no shipping charge.

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 5:21 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Heads up if you are planning on using a Dingle Cog on a fixed build and
> haven’t ordered one yet. The 17/21 is gone, but there are some of the
> others available and various venders. Get um while the gettin’s good!
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.CredoFamily.org
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>
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Patrick Moore
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*Auditis an me ludit amabilis insania?*

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