Re: [RDA-L] Title proper choice (multiple parallel titles)

2013-06-11 Thread Adam Schiff 
I am sure that both John Attig and Kathy Glennan are reading these emails, 
as are the good folks at LC.  Hopefully they agree that the instruction is 
incomplete as currently written.


Adam

-Original Message- 
From: Deborah Fritz

Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 7:34 AM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Title proper choice (multiple parallel titles)

I agree with Adam that a rule revision might be needed here. The original
draft for this instruction said: "If the source of information for the title
proper bears a title in more than one language or script, choose as the
title proper the one in the language or script of the main written, spoken,
or sung content of the resource. If this criterion is not applicable, choose
the title proper on the basis of the sequence, layout, or typography of the
titles on the source of information."

I think the last sentence was dropped somewhere along the line.

Perhaps this could even be a fast track, to get this back?

Will you bring it up with the ALA Liaison, Adam?

Deborah

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -
Deborah Fritz
TMQ, Inc.
debo...@marcofquality.com
www.marcofquality.com

-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 6:09 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] Title proper choice (multiple parallel titles)

I am trying to figure out what RDA says to do when the preferred source has
parallel titles and the content is equally divided among different
languages.

2.3.2.4 says:

Title in More Than One Language or Script

If:

the content of the resource is written, spoken, or sung

and

the source of information for the title proper has a title in more than one
language or script

then:

choose as the title proper the title in the language or script of the main
content of the resource.

If the content is not written, spoken, or sung, choose the title proper on
the basis of the sequence, layout, or typography of the titles on the source
of information.

This instruction does not address what to do if there is no "main content"
of the resource.  I am wondering if something got left out of the final
paragraph or if there should be another paragraph that says what to do when
the content is multiple languages/scripts with no main content?  My
presumption is that you should choose the title proper on the basis of the
sequence, layout, or typography of the titles on the source of information,
but nothing tells us to do this.

Here's a specific real example:

Title page has titles in this order:

Arabic title
Chinese title
English title
French title
Russian title
Spanish title

(Yes, you guessed, it's a UN document).  The same content is present in all
of these language, but curiously the order of the content as you page
through the book is English text, French text, Spanish text, Chinese text,
Russian text, Arabic text.

AACR2 1.1B8 did say what to do:  If the chief source of information bears
titles in two or more languages or scripts, transcribe as the title proper
the one in the language or script of the main written, spoken, or sung
content of the item. If this criterion is not applicable, choose the title
proper by reference to the order of titles on, or the layout of, the chief
source of information. Record the other titles as parallel titles.

It seems to me that RDA as rewritten from AACR2 gets the criterion wrong.
It shouldn't be that the content is not written, spoken, or sung, it should
be that there is no main content in a single language.

In any case, there is nothing in RDA at present that tells me what title
proper to choose in the example I've given above.  Is a rule revision or
LC-PCC policy statement needed for this?

Adam Schiff

^^
Adam L. Schiff
Principal Cataloger
University of Washington Libraries
Box 352900
Seattle, WA 98195-2900
(206) 543-8409
(206) 685-8782 fax
asch...@u.washington.edu
http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff
~~

Re: [RDA-L] Title proper choice (multiple parallel titles)

2013-06-11 Thread Deborah Fritz 
I agree with Adam that a rule revision might be needed here. The original
draft for this instruction said: "If the source of information for the title
proper bears a title in more than one language or script, choose as the
title proper the one in the language or script of the main written, spoken,
or sung content of the resource. If this criterion is not applicable, choose
the title proper on the basis of the sequence, layout, or typography of the
titles on the source of information."

I think the last sentence was dropped somewhere along the line. 

Perhaps this could even be a fast track, to get this back?

Will you bring it up with the ALA Liaison, Adam? 

Deborah

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  
Deborah Fritz
TMQ, Inc.
debo...@marcofquality.com
www.marcofquality.com

-Original Message-
From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access
[mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Adam L. Schiff
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 6:09 PM
To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA
Subject: [RDA-L] Title proper choice (multiple parallel titles)

I am trying to figure out what RDA says to do when the preferred source has
parallel titles and the content is equally divided among different
languages.

2.3.2.4 says:

Title in More Than One Language or Script

If:

the content of the resource is written, spoken, or sung

and

the source of information for the title proper has a title in more than one
language or script

then:

choose as the title proper the title in the language or script of the main
content of the resource.

If the content is not written, spoken, or sung, choose the title proper on
the basis of the sequence, layout, or typography of the titles on the source
of information.

This instruction does not address what to do if there is no "main content" 
of the resource.  I am wondering if something got left out of the final
paragraph or if there should be another paragraph that says what to do when
the content is multiple languages/scripts with no main content?  My
presumption is that you should choose the title proper on the basis of the
sequence, layout, or typography of the titles on the source of information,
but nothing tells us to do this.

Here's a specific real example:

Title page has titles in this order:

Arabic title
Chinese title
English title
French title
Russian title
Spanish title

(Yes, you guessed, it's a UN document).  The same content is present in all
of these language, but curiously the order of the content as you page
through the book is English text, French text, Spanish text, Chinese text,
Russian text, Arabic text.

AACR2 1.1B8 did say what to do:  If the chief source of information bears
titles in two or more languages or scripts, transcribe as the title proper
the one in the language or script of the main written, spoken, or sung
content of the item. If this criterion is not applicable, choose the title
proper by reference to the order of titles on, or the layout of, the chief
source of information. Record the other titles as parallel titles.

It seems to me that RDA as rewritten from AACR2 gets the criterion wrong. 
It shouldn't be that the content is not written, spoken, or sung, it should
be that there is no main content in a single language.

In any case, there is nothing in RDA at present that tells me what title
proper to choose in the example I've given above.  Is a rule revision or
LC-PCC policy statement needed for this?

Adam Schiff

^^
Adam L. Schiff
Principal Cataloger
University of Washington Libraries
Box 352900
Seattle, WA 98195-2900
(206) 543-8409
(206) 685-8782 fax
asch...@u.washington.edu
http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff
~~

Re: [RDA-L] Title proper choice (multiple parallel titles)

2013-06-10 Thread J. McRee Elrod 
Adam Schiff asked what to do

>when the content is multiple languages/scripts with no main content?
  
We are pragmatic about this, just accepting the order on the title
page (or other chief source).  I do see an advantage in changing the
order to have a Roman alphabet title first. if other scripts are
romanized; it seems best to have the title proper be in original
script.

In the case of DVDs, the container order of titles influences us.

In your case, the order of languages in the texts might be followed as
opposed to the title page?  It would bring English first, which might
be better for your patrons?  Perhaps a 546 saying the order of titles
reflects the order of languages in the document?  I assume you will  
have a 246 for each parallel title.


   __   __   J. McRee (Mac) Elrod (m...@slc.bc.ca)
  {__  |   / Special Libraries Cataloguing   HTTP://www.slc.bc.ca/
  ___} |__ \__

Re: [RDA-L] Title proper choice (multiple parallel titles)

2013-06-10 Thread Gene Fieg 
I would go with AACR1 or 2.  Use the first title listed, especially if the
fixed field for Lang in MARC is the same language as the first title listed
on the t.p.




On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Adam L. Schiff wrote:

> I am trying to figure out what RDA says to do when the preferred source
> has parallel titles and the content is equally divided among different
> languages.
>
> 2.3.2.4 says:
>
> Title in More Than One Language or Script
>
> If:
>
> the content of the resource is written, spoken, or sung
>
> and
>
> the source of information for the title proper has a title in more than
> one language or script
>
> then:
>
> choose as the title proper the title in the language or script of the main
> content of the resource.
>
> If the content is not written, spoken, or sung, choose the title proper on
> the basis of the sequence, layout, or typography of the titles on the
> source of information.
>
> This instruction does not address what to do if there is no "main content"
> of the resource.  I am wondering if something got left out of the final
> paragraph or if there should be another paragraph that says what to do when
> the content is multiple languages/scripts with no main content?  My
> presumption is that you should choose the title proper on the basis of the
> sequence, layout, or typography of the titles on the source of information,
> but nothing tells us to do this.
>
> Here's a specific real example:
>
> Title page has titles in this order:
>
> Arabic title
> Chinese title
> English title
> French title
> Russian title
> Spanish title
>
> (Yes, you guessed, it's a UN document).  The same content is present in
> all of these language, but curiously the order of the content as you page
> through the book is English text, French text, Spanish text, Chinese text,
> Russian text, Arabic text.
>
> AACR2 1.1B8 did say what to do:  If the chief source of information bears
> titles in two or more languages or scripts, transcribe as the title proper
> the one in the language or script of the main written, spoken, or sung
> content of the item. If this criterion is not applicable, choose the title
> proper by reference to the order of titles on, or the layout of, the chief
> source of information. Record the other titles as parallel titles.
>
> It seems to me that RDA as rewritten from AACR2 gets the criterion wrong.
> It shouldn't be that the content is not written, spoken, or sung, it should
> be that there is no main content in a single language.
>
> In any case, there is nothing in RDA at present that tells me what title
> proper to choose in the example I've given above.  Is a rule revision or
> LC-PCC policy statement needed for this?
>
> Adam Schiff
>
> ^^**
> Adam L. Schiff
> Principal Cataloger
> University of Washington Libraries
> Box 352900
> Seattle, WA 98195-2900
> (206) 543-8409
> (206) 685-8782 fax
> asch...@u.washington.edu
> http://faculty.washington.edu/**~aschiff
> ~~**
>



-- 
Gene Fieg
Cataloger/Serials Librarian
Claremont School of Theology
gf...@cst.edu

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