Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP +
Way back in my more Liberal days, I was a union member and supporter. But over the past 20-25 years I have done a 180, and one of the main reasons was the giant unions attempts at taking over the solar installation business. Somehow NABCEP got itself associated with the IBEW, at least in perception. And perception is what matters to the less informed (which is 99.9% of everyone). NABCEP might want to make it more clear that it is not IBEW/big union associated - ie, non partisan. Overall, I think that some sort of nationwide certification is the future, and right now NABCEP looks like the best bet for that. -Original Message- From: Conrad Geyser Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 4:49 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP + The advantage of having NABCEP is that it at least creates the idea and maybe lays the groundwork for licensing provisions for solar installers. Here in Massachusetts, we still can't pull our own electrical permits. And by the way, that's BECAUSE of the electricians union. The whole thing has actually gone South quite a bit but that's another story. As far as I know, in most other States with significant RE programs, us solar bozo's can at least wire back to the inverter under their PV license. Did it not take an extra year for California to get the million solar roofs initiative passed because the C-10s commandeered the bill? So from my perspective, if it's less hassle we want, we want NABCEP to become stronger. My two cents, Conrad Cotuit Solar -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Problem with NABCEP ad As PV becomes more and more mainstream, more and more organizations (including state licensing boards, unions and other certifying bodies) will weigh in on the subject of certifying installers for PV installation. We also have Professional Engineers that can provide expert opinions on the subject of sound engineering design. I think one of the more interesting conflicts (in California at least) is the insistence by some AHJs (and clients) that certain work be performed by a licensed electrical contractor (C-10 in CA) as opposed to a licensed solar contractor (C-46). Gosh, some schools require a C-10 license to teach PV design and installation! It is my understanding (and I am prepared to be corrected) that there is nothing in the C-10 license requirements (experience, skills, examination) that would argue that the holder of a C-10 license has any PV-specific knowledge, such as design of a PV system (orientation, shading, string sizing, proper PV ampacity calculations, maximum and minimum system voltages, proper loading analysis, anchoring and attachment of PV systems on roof tops), commissioning/troubleshooting or calculation of annual energy production, or financial metrics such as payback and IRR. But I digress. As for NABCEP certification, there are of course different levels and different specialties. If we stick to the Entry Level exam for PV installers and the (full-up) Certified Solar PV Installer (of which I have some knowledge) -- I think both have their value. An individual who passes the Entry Level Exam demonstrates that they have a certain level of knowledge about solar resources, PV system design and installation, system performance, troubleshooting, safety practices, and some financial metrics. What it doesn't deal with is experience and practical skills. If I were contemplating hiring for an entry level installer position, I would give considerable weight to some one who passed the Entry Level Exam. I would of course also evaluate the individual's skills and construction trade experience. As for the Certified Solar PV Installer, the requirements to sit for the exam include a significant amount of actual hands-on PV installation experience. There are a number of ways to qualify and I think that NABCEP has recognized a fairly broad number of paths to demonstrating this experience. There is recognition of academic instruction but it must be coupled with hands-on experience. There is also a code of ethics and requirements for continuing education as a requirement for recertification. And then there is the exam. I can vouch for the fact that the exam is thorough and difficult. As an anecdote, when I took the exam not one single person left the exam before the end of the time period. I won't hazard a guess as to the pass rate, perhaps someone else can provide some insight. With all this work that NABCEP has put into standards and certification, I would expect them to promote the value of their standards and certifications. (full disclosure: I haven't seen the ad in Home Power; could someone provide me with issue and page number?). Is insist too strong a word? I don't know. I hear advertising all the time like Insist on genuine
Re: [RE-wrenches] FX inverter shutting itself off
Kinda reminds me of a remote site problem I had down south... Dead winter of course anyway -- new OB VFX7248 (w/ flexnet DC), new 5000 series Rolls (installed Inside) and a new Kohler 10K gen set.. system kept crashing on low battery cutout / gen start error (UU on the gen display)... same story.. 2 hr drive to get there.. hit the reset button.. everything fired up just fine.. two days later, same problem.. then a care taker noticed fresh tracks in the snow out by the propane tanks.. so he set up a critter cam.. sure enough.. seems a neighbor didn't like the gen set noise and took to shutting off the fuel supply.. which caused the gen set to spit out "UU" which requires a manual reset.. a certified letter from the man did the trick... dbDan BrownFoxfire Energy Corp.Renewable Energy Systems(802)-483-2564www.Foxfire-Energy.comNABCEP #092907-44
Original Message
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FX inverter shutting itself off
From: Bob-O Schultze bo...@electronconnection.com
Date: Sun, February 06, 2011 11:57 pm
To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
John,Sounds like low voltage cutouts. And it is the dead of winter so the batts will be voltage depressed. Try installing the temp sensor directly into the FM60 rather than to the Hub. Also, unless those L16s are sealed, maybe bump the absorption voltage up to 30VDC or even a bit more for the winter.Good Luck, Bob-OOn Feb 6, 2011, at 8:21 PM, john wrote: Wrenches, I have a mountaintop transmitter site with an FX3524, Flex Max 60, some PV and 12 L16 Bateries. They are set up in a small building used for the ski patrol at a ski area. There is a 25' freestanding lattice tower on the roof with high speed wireless internet transmitter and receiver antennas. It is a relay site and direct signals to customers. We have a problem with the inverter shutting off ("off" indicating on the mate ) somewhat randomly as far as # of days apart but strangely all the shutoffs have happened between 10:08 PM and 10:30 PM. We thought it might be an inverter or mate problem so we replaced both with new units. The problem continued with the new equipment. We then suspected the data logging connection may be sending a stray signal so we removed the data connection from the FX (removed the connection from the mate). I then also removed theconnection from the FM 60 to the HUB, connected another MATE directly to the FM 60 and connected this new mate to our data aquisition so that we could still monitor battery voltage. The only common connection now is the batteries and also our data system is being powered from the AC out on the inverter. Now. after almost 3 days of operation, the inverter has shut off again at 10:15 PM yesterday. We know this as the data stopped coming in due to the loss of AC power at the site. My take is that the data monitoringequipment has nothing todo with the problem... also reinforced from several similar setups workingflawlessly. The only thought I have is that the nearby cell tower is sending out some interference. Does anyone have a clue as to what this problem could be. My customer is really MAD. All their brand new high speed internet customersare having regular long outages. We have totrailer asnowmobile to the mountain almost an hour away and go to the top to push the ON button. Also, any comments on other data systemswhichcouldturn the inverter on remotely. John Blittersdorf Central Vermont Solar Wind. ___List sponsored by Home Power magazineList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgOptions settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me!
Bob-O, It sounds like you have some influence as to running this ad when you stated NO FREAKIN' WAY! as a response to me asking NABCEP to either stop running it or alter it so it doesn't have a negative effect on non-certificants. Obviously, from the responses to my thread, the ad offends some non-certificants. If NABCEP wants to continue to offend, then go ahead, continue to run the ad. Please keep in mind that the ad not only offends some non certificants but may also affect their business in a negative way. Offending is one thing but negatively affecting livelihoods is quite another. Grid-tie PV is hard enough to sell as is without the added burden of countering the certification argument as someone suggested. I know NABCEP wants everyone to be certified and we all want to be certified but until we all have the time, money and the stress to do so or until it is actually required then please use your influence to get NABCEP to stop running of this ad. Thank you. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com On Feb 6, 2011, at 11:36 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote: Larry, Aram, etc, Let me put this as succinctly as I can: NO FREAKIN' WAY! I've sat on the NABCEP BoD for many years -almost since it began. I am not an IBEW or NECA member, nor have I ever been. I've had my CA C-10 since 1991 and I've been a NABCEP Certified PV installer since 2003. For many years we had no IBEW or NECA representation at NABCEP, but because we subscribe to the Big Tent theory and feel that all the players need a place at the table, we invited both of those organizations to participate in NABCEP some time ago. We are proud that both of them -along with many others- now sit with us and help to make our testing better and more relevant to today's RE markets. The IBEW is a large and very powerful union, but they do not control NABCEP -not even close. As long as I (and others) serve on the Board, they never will. I'm sorry that you have a problem with our Home Power ad, but we're not backing down or changing it. Do you buy your components through distribution? Your distributor is going to tout their dealers as the best in the biz and they all support Certification. You bitching them out too or just us? While there are many highly qualified Wrenches who have not yet achieved Certification or don't seek it for whatever reasons, those that have are among the best in the business. Can a Certificant screw up and make a mistake? Sure. Ain't nobody walking on water here. Do we have a very few Certificants who gamed the system and aren't as good as they should be? Probably. Are you going to stop using medical doctors because of a couple of quacks? Same thing. Certification not for you? Fine. Be well and good luck. You might want to consider, however, that Certificants command a better wage or get more jobs than the average installer. While it's hard to accurately put a price on that, our research indicates that Certification adds $10K-$15K a year to an installer's pocket. Certification costs $400. and is good for three years. Do the math. Peace, Bob-O On Feb 6, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Aram Alexander wrote: No you are not. I have been installing grid tied PV for 10 years in ca. Nabcep is union based and all though it is good but it does not mean by any means the best as we have to fix several nabcep installed systems. I personally don't like there advertising either Aram On Feb 6, 2011, at 9:13 AM, wire...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Wrenches, NABCEP has a full page ad in Home Power magazine that tells potential PV buyers to Insist on a NABCEP Certified Installer. That's a great ad if you are certified but not so good if you are not. I know many of you are but lots of us are not yet certified. NABCEP is doing a great job to ensure that PV is installed by qualified personal but is it their job to unintentionally cause non NABCEP certified installers who are otherwise very qualified to lose business. I don't think so. I contacted NABCEP about the consequences of this ad and actually asked them to stop running it or at least tone it down so it doesn't cause installers like to me to lose business. They disagreed with me. Am I being too sensitive here? Thank you. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP What's the problem?
I can't believe that reputable installers are actually trying to have this ad removed and have a problem with NABCEP's efforts to give this industry some standards. I can't even count how many jobs I have fixed that were installed by professionals 10 years ago. It is just scary what some installers try to get away with. If someone has been in the industry for 10+ years they should be able to pass the NABCEP. If they expect someone to pay big bucks for their service don't you think they should have some way of backing up their claim of professionalism other than the fact that others have trusted their work? It seems to me that if the test is to hard, takes to long, or is a financial burden to anyone in this industry; you are in the wrong line of work. I pay way more per year in liability insurance and other costs to keep by business open that the $400 test fee (for 3 years) is really just a drop in the bucket. And yes I am NABCEP Certified and proud of it. Aaron Mandelkorn Renewable Energy Outfitters P.O. Box 65 Salida CO 81201 (970)596-3744 reoso...@gmail.com www.reosolar.com On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:59 AM, wire...@gmail.com wrote: Bob-O, It sounds like you have some influence as to running this ad when you stated NO FREAKIN' WAY! as a response to me asking NABCEP to either stop running it or alter it so it doesn't have a negative effect on non-certificants. Obviously, from the responses to my thread, the ad offends some non-certificants. If NABCEP wants to continue to offend, then go ahead, continue to run the ad. Please keep in mind that the ad not only offends some non certificants but may also affect their business in a negative way. Offending is one thing but negatively affecting livelihoods is quite another. Grid-tie PV is hard enough to sell as is without the added burden of countering the certification argument as someone suggested. I know NABCEP wants everyone to be certified and we all want to be certified but until we all have the time, money and the stress to do so or until it is actually required then please use your influence to get NABCEP to stop running of this ad. Thank you. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com On Feb 6, 2011, at 11:36 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote: Larry, Aram, etc, Let me put this as succinctly as I can: NO FREAKIN' WAY! I've sat on the NABCEP BoD for many years -almost since it began. I am not an IBEW or NECA member, nor have I ever been. I've had my CA C-10 since 1991 and I've been a NABCEP Certified PV installer since 2003. For many years we had no IBEW or NECA representation at NABCEP, but because we subscribe to the Big Tent theory and feel that all the players need a place at the table, we invited both of those organizations to participate in NABCEP some time ago. We are proud that both of them -along with many others- now sit with us and help to make our testing better and more relevant to today's RE markets. The IBEW is a large and very powerful union, but they do not control NABCEP -not even close. As long as I (and others) serve on the Board, they never will. I'm sorry that you have a problem with our Home Power ad, but we're not backing down or changing it. Do you buy your components through distribution? Your distributor is going to tout their dealers as the best in the biz and they all support Certification. You bitching them out too or just us? While there are many highly qualified Wrenches who have not yet achieved Certification or don't seek it for whatever reasons, those that have are among the best in the business. Can a Certificant screw up and make a mistake? Sure. Ain't nobody walking on water here. Do we have a very few Certificants who gamed the system and aren't as good as they should be? Probably. Are you going to stop using medical doctors because of a couple of quacks? Same thing. Certification not for you? Fine. Be well and good luck. You might want to consider, however, that Certificants command a better wage or get more jobs than the average installer. While it's hard to accurately put a price on that, our research indicates that Certification adds $10K-$15K a year to an installer's pocket. Certification costs $400. and is good for three years. Do the math. Peace, Bob-O On Feb 6, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Aram Alexander wrote: No you are not. I have been installing grid tied PV for 10 years in ca. Nabcep is union based and all though it is good but it does not mean by any means the best as we have to fix several nabcep installed systems. I personally don't like there advertising either Aram On Feb 6, 2011, at 9:13 AM, wire...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Wrenches, NABCEP has a full page ad in Home Power magazine that tells potential PV buyers to Insist on a NABCEP Certified Installer. That's a great ad if you are
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP +
Hi Warren, A couple of comments. From my viewpoint, NABCEP wants to be all things to all solar people, at least in those select solar areas where there is money to be made. As you might surmise, making money is, IMHO, the key to all NABCEP interests, witness the plethora of certifications that now exist and the straphanger training crowd willing to get some mileage out of NABCEP eligible training during the current solar tax credit boondoggle. I see NABCEP, at best, sort of like the US Green Building folks, LEED, Energy Star, etc. admirable in concept but often so sorely lacking in execution as to be laughable and oftentimes even disingenuous. While I would welcome some type of nationwide certification, that hasn't happened with Doctors, engineers, or even electricians; where there is certainly less regional variation than there is with solar, so I won't hold my breath for anyone to accomplish that desirable outcome for a long, long, long time.Until then, state certification is the defacto benchmark. I oftentimes remind myself that it was the giant SONY who first introduced a standardized videotape format, the BetaMax, but yet it was the, Johnny come late, upstart Phillips who prevailed with VHS. Thanks, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar - Original Message - From: Warren Lauzon war...@wind-sun.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 6:11 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP + Way back in my more Liberal days, I was a union member and supporter. But over the past 20-25 years I have done a 180, and one of the main reasons was the giant unions attempts at taking over the solar installation business. Somehow NABCEP got itself associated with the IBEW, at least in perception. And perception is what matters to the less informed (which is 99.9% of everyone). NABCEP might want to make it more clear that it is not IBEW/big union associated - ie, non partisan. Overall, I think that some sort of nationwide certification is the future, and right now NABCEP looks like the best bet for that. -Original Message- From: Conrad Geyser Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 4:49 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP + The advantage of having NABCEP is that it at least creates the idea and maybe lays the groundwork for licensing provisions for solar installers. Here in Massachusetts, we still can't pull our own electrical permits. And by the way, that's BECAUSE of the electricians union. The whole thing has actually gone South quite a bit but that's another story. As far as I know, in most other States with significant RE programs, us solar bozo's can at least wire back to the inverter under their PV license. Did it not take an extra year for California to get the million solar roofs initiative passed because the C-10s commandeered the bill? So from my perspective, if it's less hassle we want, we want NABCEP to become stronger. My two cents, Conrad Cotuit Solar -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:20 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Problem with NABCEP ad As PV becomes more and more mainstream, more and more organizations (including state licensing boards, unions and other certifying bodies) will weigh in on the subject of certifying installers for PV installation. We also have Professional Engineers that can provide expert opinions on the subject of sound engineering design. I think one of the more interesting conflicts (in California at least) is the insistence by some AHJs (and clients) that certain work be performed by a licensed electrical contractor (C-10 in CA) as opposed to a licensed solar contractor (C-46). Gosh, some schools require a C-10 license to teach PV design and installation! It is my understanding (and I am prepared to be corrected) that there is nothing in the C-10 license requirements (experience, skills, examination) that would argue that the holder of a C-10 license has any PV-specific knowledge, such as design of a PV system (orientation, shading, string sizing, proper PV ampacity calculations, maximum and minimum system voltages, proper loading analysis, anchoring and attachment of PV systems on roof tops), commissioning/troubleshooting or calculation of annual energy production, or financial metrics such as payback and IRR. But I digress. As for NABCEP certification, there are of course different levels and different specialties. If we stick to the Entry Level exam for PV installers and the (full-up) Certified Solar PV Installer (of which I have some knowledge) -- I think both have their value. An individual who passes the Entry Level Exam demonstrates that they have a certain level of knowledge about solar resources, PV system design and installation, system performance,
Re: [RE-wrenches] Problem with NABCEP ad
Larry, I was glad to read your post. It tells me that the effort to establish NABCEP is proving to be worthwhile. If NABCEP didn't matter, you wouldn't have written, as it wouldn't have affected you. You have been doing RE work (likely with great skill from the testimonials on your website) for 20 years, and with your own business for about seven. NABCEP has been offering certification for about that same length of time. Now that there is a critical mass of some 1,500 certified installers, and there has been plenty of time for installers to choose whether to attempt to become certified or not, it seems to me that it's perfectly appropriate for NABCEP to advertise to the public that there's a standard to use to compare installers. Like our president said when asked if he inhaled, "Of course. That's the point." Some longtime Wrenches have chosen not to become certified. That, too, is the point: it's optional. Yes, some jurisdictions have chosen to make it a requisite for rebate levels or participation in incentive programs - that's their right, but NABCEP can't control this beyond discouraging the practice. It's intended to be a voluntary certification, separate from licensure or any state requirements. In 2000 Trace (before it became Xanthra- er, Xantrex, and long before it became Schneider) offered the first "Certified Dealer" program in the industry. I became one back then because it was the only game in town. I saw the benefit, both to set our company apart with some good marketing differentiation, and to begin to add to the professionalism of the whole immature PV industry by supporting professional standards and certifications. In 2001, NABCEP was just coming into being as a concept, and I was asked by the organizers to present and support the idea of a national certification for installers to independent installers on this list, which I did. There were some really lively discussions in 2001 and 2002. I took the first exam for the same reasons as with Trace, along with one other - that it may not mean much now, but someday it will set us apart and people will have heard about it and will value it. That day came at different times in different states. In New Mexico, that day is just coming around. Suddenly, we too have plenty of new solar companies. Many claim to be the premier solar installer in the state, with years or decades of experience. Most will sell a system for less than we will - that's a common way for new companies to gain a track record. Anyone can claim anything in their marketing and on their website. What do we have to back up our own claims? Reputation. Referrals. Published testimonials. And more NABCEP certificants than anyone in our state. All of these carry weight and keep us busy. Larry, you are being too sensitive. You have been in business long enough to qualify. It's your own business, so you must have led all of your jobs. Weigh the pros and cons as they affect your business, and either get certified or don't, but don't criticize NABCEP for promoting its certified installers - that's its job. On the other hand, how can it be NABCEP's "job to unintentionally cause" anything? I think that's an oxymoron. Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 2/6/2011 9:13 AM, wire...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Wrenches, NABCEP has a full page ad in Home Power magazine that tells potential PV buyers to "Insist on a NABCEP Certified Installer". That's a great ad if you are certified but not so good if you are not. I know many of you are but lots of us are not yet certified. NABCEP is doing a great job to ensure that PV is installed by qualified personal but is it their job to unintentionally cause non NABCEP certified installers who are otherwise very qualified to lose business. I don't think so. I contacted NABCEP about the consequences of this ad and actually asked them to stop running it or at least tone it down so it doesn't cause installers like to me to lose business. They disagreed with me. Am I being too sensitive here? Thank you. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me!
Larry My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a considerable edge over my competition because I have invested the time energy and went through the stress of taking the exam. It is the same way with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and stress to get the qualification. I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a break! You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit and so do I! Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course not. If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business. Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are continually learning more and growing as an industry. Otherwise there would not be much use in this blog at all. All an exam really means is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism. It is about time our industry grows up! Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be. I applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off. If you can do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry! Bill -- Bill Hoffer PE NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC 2504 Columbia Ave NW East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941 suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762 Cell(509)679-6165 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me!
I spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level exam, so I have that. I spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this time. I'm 62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking tests. When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't have to rely on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on boats for 30 years. I'm sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a competitive person and the ad ticked me off. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote: Larry My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a considerable edge over my competition because I have invested the time energy and went through the stress of taking the exam. It is the same way with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and stress to get the qualification. I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a break! You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit and so do I! Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course not. If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business. Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are continually learning more and growing as an industry. Otherwise there would not be much use in this blog at all. All an exam really means is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism. It is about time our industry grows up! Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be. I applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off. If you can do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry! Bill -- Bill Hoffer PE NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC 2504 Columbia Ave NW East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941 suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762 Cell(509)679-6165 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing
Larry, It's easy to become frustrated browsing, or studying, anyone's marketing these days. It's OK to squeak once in a while on topics like this (in my opinion). NABCEP has not been discussed too much lately and your comment brought some good discussion to the group. Sounds like you are doing some good things in your business. Many professionals have not passed the test on the first take. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of wire...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me! I spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level exam, so I have that. I spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this time. I'm 62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking tests. When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't have to rely on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on boats for 30 years. I'm sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a competitive person and the ad ticked me off. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote: Larry My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a considerable edge over my competition because I have invested the time energy and went through the stress of taking the exam. It is the same way with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and stress to get the qualification. I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a break! You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit and so do I! Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course not. If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business. Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are continually learning more and growing as an industry. Otherwise there would not be much use in this blog at all. All an exam really means is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism. It is about time our industry grows up! Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be. I applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off. If you can do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry! Bill -- Bill Hoffer PE NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerT Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC 2504 Columbia Ave NW East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941 suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762 Cell(509)679-6165 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing
To become NABCEP certified, you only need to have installed 2 PV systems. 1 of those systems can be at a training class, and the other can be on your brothers house. All that NABCEP Certified means is that I studied a list of questions, and then passed the test. It is good to know that a handrailing should be 39-45 tall, and not 36-42. However, that should not come with any title, like 'Certified PV Installer.' The experience requirements should be more stringent. If it required some real experience, it would mean something, but NABCEP wants as many participants as possible, so anyone can sit for it. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Mon, February 7, 2011 11:10:21 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing Larry, It’s easy to become frustrated browsing, or studying, anyone’s marketing these days. It’s OK to squeak once in a while on topics like this (in my opinion). NABCEP has not been discussed too much lately and your comment brought some good discussion to the group. Sounds like you are doing some good things in your business. Many professionals have not passed the test on the first take. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of wire...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me! I spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level exam, so I have that. I spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this time. I'm 62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking tests. When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't have to rely on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on boats for 30 years. I'm sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a competitive person and the ad ticked me off. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote: Larry My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a considerable edge over my competition because I have invested the time energy and went through the stress of taking the exam. It is the same way with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and stress to get the qualification. I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a break! You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit and so do I! Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course not. If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business. Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are continually learning more and growing as an industry. Otherwise there would not be much use in this blog at all. All an exam really means is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism. It is about time our industry grows up! Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be. I applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off. If you can do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry! Bill -- Bill Hoffer PE NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC 2504 Columbia Ave NW East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941 suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762 Cell(509)679-6165 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me!
Hi Larry, Thanks for your hard dollar numbers (beyond the $400 fee, for one NABCEP test). If you look back in the Wrench archives, the willingness of NABCEP to take their exam to the users was also discussed. I can remember one very specific example where the user was told the exam would be scheduled in their neighborhood and once the fee was paid, the user also had massive travel expenses. Caveat Emptor. Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar PS You might take heart that there are some very, very knowledgeable, first class installers on this RE-wrenches List who have expressed their non interest in NABCEP for a variety of reasons. - Original Message - From: wire...@gmail.com To: RE-wrenches Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me! I spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level exam, so I have that. I spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this time. I'm 62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking tests. When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't have to rely on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on boats for 30 years. I'm sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a competitive person and the ad ticked me off. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote: Larry My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a considerable edge over my competition because I have invested the time energy and went through the stress of taking the exam. It is the same way with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and stress to get the qualification. I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a break! You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit and so do I! Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course not. If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business. Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are continually learning more and growing as an industry. Otherwise there would not be much use in this blog at all. All an exam really means is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism. It is about time our industry grows up! Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be. I applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off. If you can do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry! Bill -- Bill Hoffer PE NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC 2504 Columbia Ave NW East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941 suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762 Cell(509)679-6165 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] outback mate question
HI All, I'm curious if anyone can shed light on this one. I've got a customer whos telling me their mate changes from USE to drop on its own. they say they set it on USE, come back and check it and its on Drop? Ive never seen this one. any thoughts other than user error? system is 6 years old, probably original mate, no AGS, sealed fx thanks, jay peltz power PS the site is a 8hr drive each way, not my install, just trying to help out. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] outback mate question
Do they have a PC connected to the Mate? Thank you, Maverick Maverick Brown BSEET, NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® President CEO Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. Office: 512-919-4493 Cell:512-460-9825 Sent from an iPhone. On Feb 7, 2011, at 7:33 PM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: HI All, I'm curious if anyone can shed light on this one. I've got a customer whos telling me their mate changes from USE to drop on its own. they say they set it on USE, come back and check it and its on Drop? Ive never seen this one. any thoughts other than user error? system is 6 years old, probably original mate, no AGS, sealed fx thanks, jay peltz power PS the site is a 8hr drive each way, not my install, just trying to help out. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] outback mate question
Jay, I've seen that happen. I concluded that it was associated with an AGS fault status. I also reset the Mate to factory defaults and reprogrammed all the AGS settings for the customer. No problem since then. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. jay peltz wrote: HI All, I'm curious if anyone can shed light on this one. I've got a customer whos telling me their mate changes from USE to drop on its own. they say they set it on USE, come back and check it and its on Drop? Ive never seen this one. any thoughts other than user error? system is 6 years old, probably original mate, no AGS, sealed fx thanks, jay peltz power PS the site is a 8hr drive each way, not my install, just trying to help out. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing
From what I see, NABCEP is heavily hardware oriented, with only a smidgen of actual problem solving and/or theory. It totally falls apart with battery based systems, generally way undersizing them. The actual electrical knowledge required is minimal except for code and wiring/hardware issues. Being certified will not make you capable of much – if any – real troubleshooting. From: Nick Soleil Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 2:16 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing To become NABCEP certified, you only need to have installed 2 PV systems. 1 of those systems can be at a training class, and the other can be on your brothers house. All that NABCEP Certified means is that I studied a list of questions, and then passed the test. It is good to know that a handrailing should be 39-45 tall, and not 36-42. However, that should not come with any title, like 'Certified PV Installer.' The experience requirements should be more stringent. If it required some real experience, it would mean something, but NABCEP wants as many participants as possible, so anyone can sit for it. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 From: Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Mon, February 7, 2011 11:10:21 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing Larry, It’s easy to become frustrated browsing, or studying, anyone’s marketing these days. It’s OK to squeak once in a while on topics like this (in my opinion). NABCEP has not been discussed too much lately and your comment brought some good discussion to the group. Sounds like you are doing some good things in your business. Many professionals have not passed the test on the first take. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of wire...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me! I spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level exam, so I have that. I spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this time. I'm 62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking tests. When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't have to rely on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on boats for 30 years. I'm sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a competitive person and the ad ticked me off. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote: Larry My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a considerable edge over my competition because I have invested the time energy and went through the stress of taking the exam. It is the same way with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and stress to get the qualification. I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a break! You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit and so do I! Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course not. If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business. Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are continually learning more and growing as an industry. Otherwise there would not be much use in this blog at all. All an exam really means is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism. It is about time our industry grows up! Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be. I applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off. If you can do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry! Bill -- Bill Hoffer PE NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Sunergy Engineering
