Re: [RE-wrenches] UL warns of counterfeit UL Mark on photovoltaic panels
Wrenches will especially enjoy the IMP and ISC values, pictured in the final image of the UL notice. On 2013/4/16 13:29, Jason Szumlanski wrote: Ray Johnson in Florida has done an excellent job documenting this fiasco on his blow in the article below and several other articles. http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/blog/post/2013/04/solar-contractors-installers-beware-of-the-panel-warranty-bait-switch W e lost several jobs to this company in the past due to unsustainable low competitive prices. I was sounding the alarm on this a couple of years ago - I thought they were dumping product on the market to establish their contracting/sales arm. It seems they were up to much more than that. *Jason Szumlanski* /Fafco Solar/ On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Nik Ponzio npon...@buildingenergyus.com mailto:npon...@buildingenergyus.com wrote: http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/newsroom/publicnotices/detail/index.jsp?cpath=/global/eng/pages/newsroom/publicnotices/detail/data/ul-warns-of-counterfeit-ul-mark-on-photovoltaic_2013041507.xml UL warns of counterfeit UL Mark on photovoltaic panels (Release 13PN-20) *NORTHBROOK, IL - April 15, 2013 -* The following is a notification from UL to Authorities Having Jurisdiction, distributors, installers and users that the photovoltaic panels identified below bear counterfeit UL Marks for the United States and Canada . The photovoltaic (solar) panels have not been evaluated by UL to the appropriate Standards for Safety and it is unknown if these photovoltaic panels comply with UL's safety requirements for the United States or Canada. *Name of Product:* ASP - Advanced Solar Photonics (also known as Bluechip Energy) Models AP-240PK, AP-245MK and ASP-390M Note that ASP is a tradename for the parent company Bluechip Energy LLC *Identification: */On the product:/ The products bear a counterfeit UL Mark and one of the markings shown below: Note that the labels include additional electrical rating information, but the values may differ from that shown in the photographs below. *Photos of Product: * *Photo of typical installation* ** *Counterfeit nameplate from Model AP-240PK* The nameplate label for Model AP-245MK is identical to the label above except for Model number and electrical ratings. ** *Counterfeit nameplate from Model ASP-390M* ** *Sold at: *Known to be sold by SunWorks Solar and may be sold by other distributors ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fuse sizing in battery circuits
Hi Ray, Not saying he was right, but it was explained to me by an inspector that the pipe electrode mentioned in 250.166(C) is different than a water main. The justification being that 250.52(A)(1) lists requirements for a metal underground water pipe electrode, while 250.52(A)(5) lists pipe electrode separately. I agree a water main fits the description of a pipe, but I suppose it could depend on the mood of the inspector. I've managed to avoid it myself, but have heard horror stories of 4/0 GECs being required by inspectors. Good point about 250.53(D)(2) Supplemental Electrode Required. Although it does list a pipe again as a possible supplemental electrode to the water main. 250.166(C) just seems a little unclear with respect to a water main electrode. I have seen a number of sites that do not have a supplemental electrode in addition to the water main, but I suppose you could simply install a rod, bond it to the water main, and use #6 copper for the DC GEC. Thanks, Garrison -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 2:22 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fuse sizing in battery circuits First, a water main is no longer allowed to be used as the primary grounding electrode by itself, it needs an additional electrode added to it 25053(D)2. You still are required to bond to it 250.104(A)1, but it doesn't count as the electrode. Also, 250.166 (C) specifically lists pipe as one of the exceptions. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 4/16/2013 1:06 PM, Garrison Riegel wrote: Hi Ray and All, 250.166 says the GEC must be sized as specified in (A) Not smaller than the neutral conductor, or (B) Not smaller than the largest conductor supplied by the system, except as permitted by (C) through (E). A water main [as in 250.52(A)(1)] is not listed as an exception in (C) through (E). So if the GE is a water main wouldn't the GEC need to be 4/0, if the battery cables were 4/0? Not saying it makes sense, especially if the water main is 3/4, but this has always made me wonder. Thoughts? Garrison Riegel Project Manager | Solar Service Inc [p] 847-677-0950 | garri...@solarserviceinc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalT -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 12:52 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fuse sizing in battery circuits Hi Drake; Read down a bit more and 250.166(C) and (D) limit the size of the GEC to #4 or #6 max., depending on what electrode is used. This used to not be the case, and systems in the 90s had 4/0 cable to a 5/8 electrode: which just like your 1/2 pipe example was absolutely ridiculous. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 4/16/2013 9:31 AM, Drake wrote: So, in a standard battery system, with a charge control, ground fault protection and an array, the DC system will likely need grounding. If the DC system is grounded, then the battery cables are grounded also. In 250.166 (B) it says the grounding electrode conductor (GEC) shall not be smaller than the largest conductor supplied by the system. If the battery cables are supplied by the system doesn't this imply that the GEC should be the size of the battery cable? This is the logic that has led some inspectors to require a 4/0 copper wire to be bonded to a 1/2 water pipe. This is, of course, technically absurd. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:
Re: [RE-wrenches] UL warns of counterfeit UL Mark on photovoltaic panels
Neat trick! Nice catch! *Jason Szumlanski** * *Fafco Solar* http://www.wisestamp.com/apps/wordpress?utm_source=extensionutm_medium=emailutm_term=wordpressutm_campaign=apps On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:22 AM, Dave Click davecl...@fsec.ucf.edu wrote: Wrenches will especially enjoy the IMP and ISC values, pictured in the final image of the UL notice. On 2013/4/16 13:29, Jason Szumlanski wrote: Ray Johnson in Florida has done an excellent job documenting this fiasco on his blow in the article below and several other articles. http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/blog/post/2013/04/solar-contractors-installers-beware-of-the-panel-warranty-bait-switch W e lost several jobs to this company in the past due to unsustainable low competitive prices. I was sounding the alarm on this a couple of years ago - I thought they were dumping product on the market to establish their contracting/sales arm. It seems they were up to much more than that. *Jason Szumlanski* *Fafco Solar* On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Nik Ponzio npon...@buildingenergyus.com wrote: http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/newsroom/publicnotices/detail/index.jsp?cpath=/global/eng/pages/newsroom/publicnotices/detail/data/ul-warns-of-counterfeit-ul-mark-on-photovoltaic_2013041507.xml UL warns of counterfeit UL Mark on photovoltaic panels (Release 13PN-20) *NORTHBROOK, IL - April 15, 2013 -* The following is a notification from UL to Authorities Having Jurisdiction, distributors, installers and users that the photovoltaic panels identified below bear counterfeit UL Marks for the United States and Canada . The photovoltaic (solar) panels have not been evaluated by UL to the appropriate Standards for Safety and it is unknown if these photovoltaic panels comply with UL's safety requirements for the United States or Canada. *Name of Product:* ASP - Advanced Solar Photonics (also known as Bluechip Energy) Models AP-240PK, AP-245MK and ASP-390M Note that ASP is a tradename for the parent company Bluechip Energy LLC *Identification: **On the product:* The products bear a counterfeit UL Mark and one of the markings shown below: Note that the labels include additional electrical rating information, but the values may differ from that shown in the photographs below. *Photos of Product: * *Photo of typical installation* * * *Counterfeit nameplate from Model AP-240PK* The nameplate label for Model AP-245MK is identical to the label above except for Model number and electrical ratings. ** *Counterfeit nameplate from Model ASP-390M* * * *Sold at: *Known to be sold by SunWorks Solar and may be sold by other distributors ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Fuse sizing in battery circuits
A metal underground water pipe is still a pipe in all cases, so I think I'm missing your inspector's logic. A water main is always going to be made out of pipe, so I think the exception to 250.166 (C) should always apply. (unless some places make them square?;-) ) The difference in pipe between 250.52A1 and A5 is that one is a pipe set in the ground by an electrician with the sole purpose of being a grounding electrode, while the other is used for water and is set by the plumber. The reason I heard that water lines into the house had to have supplementary grounding is that they often transition to PVC and so aren't always continuous metal. They also might be cut and changed later by a plumber. That also was a change from earlier code, that used to allow the water main to be used as the sole grounding electrode. EIther way, 250.166 does not make a distinction, it just says Pipe and would cover all GEC connections. The 4/0 GEC horror stories probably are from earlier editions of the code. BIll Brooks can tell us when that changed. My guess is that it was a pre 2002 code requirement, as I saw that on 90s PV systems. Your final suggested install should be code compliant with all the various NEC sections (IMHO); just use a lay in lug type pipe grounding clamp, to keep the GEC continuous to the rod. Some of this code stuff makes you wonder whether we should have studied law to be a Wrench.(ugh) R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 4/17/2013 7:44 AM, Garrison Riegel wrote: Hi Ray, Not saying he was right, but it was explained to me by an inspector that the pipe electrode mentioned in 250.166(C) is different than a water main. The justification being that 250.52(A)(1) lists requirements for a metal underground water pipe electrode, while 250.52(A)(5) lists pipe electrode separately. I agree a water main fits the description of a pipe, but I suppose it could depend on the mood of the inspector. I've managed to avoid it myself, but have heard horror stories of 4/0 GECs being required by inspectors. Good point about 250.53(D)(2) Supplemental Electrode Required. Although it does list a pipe again as a possible supplemental electrode to the water main. 250.166(C) just seems a little unclear with respect to a water main electrode. I have seen a number of sites that do not have a supplemental electrode in addition to the water main, but I suppose you could simply install a rod, bond it to the water main, and use #6 copper for the DC GEC. Thanks, Garrison -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 2:22 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fuse sizing in battery circuits First, a water main is no longer allowed to be used as the primary grounding electrode by itself, it needs an additional electrode added to it 25053(D)2. You still are required to bond to it 250.104(A)1, but it doesn't count as the electrode. Also, 250.166 (C) specifically lists pipe as one of the exceptions. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 4/16/2013 1:06 PM, Garrison Riegel wrote: Hi Ray and All, 250.166 says the GEC must be sized as specified in (A) Not smaller than the neutral conductor, or (B) Not smaller than the largest conductor supplied by the system, except as permitted by (C) through (E). A water main [as in 250.52(A)(1)] is not listed as an exception in (C) through (E). So if the GE is a water main wouldn't the GEC need to be 4/0, if the battery cables were 4/0? Not saying it makes sense, especially if the water main is 3/4, but this has always made me wonder. Thoughts? Garrison Riegel Project Manager | Solar Service Inc [p] 847-677-0950 | garri...@solarserviceinc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalT -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 12:52 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fuse sizing in battery circuits Hi Drake; Read down a bit more and 250.166(C) and (D) limit the size of the GEC to #4 or #6 max., depending on what electrode is used. This used to not be the case, and systems in the 90s had 4/0 cable to a 5/8 electrode: which just like your 1/2 pipe example was absolutely ridiculous. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 4/16/2013 9:31 AM, Drake wrote: So, in a standard battery system, with a charge control, ground fault protection and an array, the DC system will likely need grounding. If the DC system is grounded, then the battery cables are grounded also. In 250.166 (B) it says
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form
Bruce, Please call me, I have a fix for your issue. SMA America, LLC Steve Jefferson Supervisor, Service Line 6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300 Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714 U.S.A. Tel: +1 916 625 0870 Fax: +1 916 624-2445 Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free) Email: steve.jeffer...@sma-america.com www.SMA-America.com This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Erickson Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 11:37 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form I'm having a similar issue with a GRID-TIE inverter just now. SMA 5000US which, when it wakes up every morning, removes the date and time from the programming in the customers' Monitor brand kerosene heater. They have to re-enter it daily, which is annoying enough, but when they go out of town, they have to leave the inverter off to avoid coming home to a cold house. So far SMA has had us move the breaker as far as possible from the heater breaker, to no avail. They had no other suggestions. I used a Panamax plug-in power conditioner with 50 dB of EMI filtering on the heater outlet, which has reduced the frequency of the problem to once a day, when it wakes up, from a few times a day. Trying a different heater is out of the question due to cost, so I'm stumped as how to avoid an unhappy customer, unless the answer is experimenting with more robust power conditioners. Bruce Erickson Mendocino Solar Service PO Box 1252 Mendocino, CA 95460 707-937-1701 707-937-1741 fax br...@mendocinosolar.com On Apr 16, 2013, at 11:12 AM, Dave Palumbo wrote: Jeremy, What to look for? Unfortunately, probably a different coffee maker. I've gone through this with several different appliances over the years on sine wave inverter output. Washing machines, refrigerators, dishwashers it could be anything with electronics. Specific manufacturers typically cannot be avoided in order to solve this issue. Year to year manufacturers may change the design of their appliances, so blanket statements on what works and what doesn't are unreliable. All appliances (excepting a few) are designed to operate on utility power, not inverter power. Inverter power (excepting Exeltech and possibly others) typically has more distortion than utility power. Some appliances cannot tolerate the simulated inverter sine wave power. I always council my inverter customers that I cannot guarantee that all appliances with work flawlessly and that some may not work at all. I advise off-grid clients to buy appliances where there is a liberal return policy. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of All Solar Sent: Tuesday, April 16, 2013 12:47 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form Have a client with a new coffee maker that will not run from their new dual outback setup. Has anyone heard of this lately. We have had no problems with appliances and sine wave inverters. What to look for? Sent from Jeremy's IPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Advanced PV Training Solar Living Institute - class needs students
On the off-chance that anyone out there is interested in an advanced off-grid training class on the 25th 26th of this month for about $400 in Hopland, CA... The advanced off-grid course (PV 290) needs more participants lest it should be postponed until October. Just thought I'd post because I was planning to take this course... Eric SunHarvest - Original Message - From: Jesse Dahl To: RE-wrenches Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Advanced PV Training Recommendations The MREA (Midwest renewable energy association) offers classes, some on-line now. Really good Instructors. www.midwestrenew.org Jesse Sent from my iPhone On Apr 12, 2013, at 8:03 PM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote: HI Eric, I'm going to advise you to look at SEI Solar energy international. http://www.solarenergy.org/ Full disclosure, I teach part time from them. Cheers, jay peltz power On Apr 12, 2013, at 12:46 PM, SunHarvest wrote: Wrenchers - I am in need of hands-on advanced training for my own continuing education. I have a California C46 solar contractor's license and plenty of experience designing and installing systems. But, as you all know, there are always more details to master, code issues to be clarified, and new technologies coming down the pike. I'd like to focus on off-grid and on-grid w/BB systems over straight grid-tie. I'm looking at Solar Living Institute as that's here in NorCal, where I live. Are there any training schools/programs that you guys would recommend? My main requirements are that the instructor has 20+ years of hands-on experience and that the training is hands-on and fully comprehensive. I am interested in getting NABCEP certified but I'm more concerned with getting professional, in-depth training than with qualifying for NABCEP exam requirements. Thanks! Eric SunHarvest - Original Message - From: John Berdner To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Combining conductors Larry: Yes, you can parallel conductors (there is an NEC limit on minimum size allowed to parallel). You just add the ampacity of the two conductors. To convince yourself you can also check Table 8 Conductor Properties and sum the cross sectional areas of all the parallel conductors to see the equivalency to a single larger conductor. Best Regards, John Berdner General Manager, North America SolarEdge Technologies, Inc. 3347 Gateway Boulevard, Fremont CA 94538 USA (*Please note of our new address.) T: 510.498.3200, X 747 M: 530.277.4894 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2013 9:51 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Combining conductors Wrenches, Here's a tough one for me to understand. I am installing 2 volt AGM batteries. There are two terminals for each battery polarity. I have some height limits so I need to use the minimum wire size. Here's my question: If I combine two identical conductors, what is the equivalent single conductor size? I found one rule of thumb that says doubling like conductors creates a AWG decrease of 3. Example: two #2 will be equivalent to 2/0. Is this true? Thank you, Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail and its attachments are intended only for the use of the individual or entity who is the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure or any type of use under applicable law. If the reader of this e-mail is not the intended recipient, or the employee, agent, or representative responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or other use of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please reply immediately to the sender. P Please think of the environment before printing this email ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form
The old 50uF cap trick worked on Trace SW Inverters as well to run other Hi Efficiency washers. I thought it was the zero crossing issue, but what you're showing for PF makes more sense. I knew the caps worked, I just didn't fully understand why. Thanks, Larry. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 4/17/2013 1:09 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: We experience issues like this from time to time. PF seems to be the culprit. Have you measured it or looked at the waveform yet? How an inverter deals with PF seems to vary broadly. For example, the Splendide XC2100 washer/dryer will not work on a Magnum Energy and a few other sine wave inverters. However, it will run on a low cost GoPower or Samlex sine wave inverter. Below is a scope trace of voltage/current of the Magnum inverter Splendide washer. Upper trace is voltage By adding a 50uF run capacitor inline, it somewhat tames the current phase and the sine wave so the Magnum can operate the washer. (Special thanks to Al for the discovery and photos) Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Apr 16, 2013, at 9:46 AM, All Solar allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Have a client with a new coffee maker that will not run from their new dual outback setup. Has anyone heard of this lately. We have had no problems with appliances and sine wave inverters. What to look for? Sent from Jeremy's IPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] BP SX mods and inverter failure?
Hi all, I know the BP SX module failure has come up often on past posts, but I was wondering if anyone has seen the failures effecting the systems inverters. I have inherited several systems from an installer who is no longer in the area. I have been picking up the task of replacing the failed/or failing modules over the last few years. The two catastrophic failures of the modules I have seen (melted j-boxes, and spidered glass) have also been connected to a inverter (2 different models) that has failed. The OCP has checked out, ground fault fuses intact, no evidence of hot/melted wires (other than the failed mods). This could be coincidence , or not? Questions of replacing the inverter, and having the remaining modules still in service is a concern. Just seeing if any of you have seen anything similar. Also wondering if anyone has some insight unto trying to test mods that don't have the signature burn marks, or come up with a compelling case for a full array replacement. It seems my last BP contact is no longer with them, and not sure how this round will turn out. Thanks, Jay Poz www.nunatakenergy.com 970-349-3432 NABCEP Certified PV Installer: Cert.#031310-177 IREC Affiliated Instructor ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase compatibility heads up
Hi William, You can use the Sharp 235s with M190s. The M190s will work with all 60 cell and 72 cell products. On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 4:54 PM, William Miller will...@millersolar.comwrote: Colleagues: I had occasion today to use the Enphase on-line compatibility calculator. My client bought some modules and M190 inverters from an E-bay vendor. The exact module model number was not listed on the compatibility list so I was recommended by Enphase to use the calculator. The result showed the module was compatible only with the M215 inverter. Further research revealed that the calculator will never indicate compatibility with M190s even if your module is indeed compatible. The reason I was given for this is that since Enphase no longer makes M190s the calculator would not recommend them. This is silly since we still encounter M190s in the field. Be aware of this situation if you ever need to use the calculator. I informed the customer support person of this concern and recommended that this tool be corrected to show all compatibilities. I don't know if they will change this, but I hope so. By the way does anyone know if the Sharp NU-US235F9 BX modules will work with the Enphase M190? It appears so, but I don't want to recommend something that does not work. Thanks, William Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 __**_ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: re-wrenc...@lists.re-wrenches.**orgRE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/**options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-**wrenches.orghttp://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/**pipermail/re-wrenches-re-** wrenches.orghttp://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.**htmhttp://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Cordially, *Nick Soleil* *Field Applications Engineer * *Enphase Energy* Mobile: (707) 321-2937 ** *Enphase Commercial Solar.* *Limitless.*http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=emailutm_medium=sigutm_campaign=Comm2012 * *http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=emailutm_medium=sigutm_campaign=Comm2012 1420 North McDowell Petaluma, CA 94954 www.enphase.com http://www.enphaseenergy.com/ P: (707) 763-4784 x7267 F: (707) 763-0784 E: nsol...@enphaseenergy.com [image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 “Don’t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It’s just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there’s an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it’s wireless! .” - William McDonough This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. image002.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form
Wrenches, While the addition of a capacitor may resolve issues associated with various inverter/appliance/motor combinations, please make sure the capacitor(s) get switched OUT of the circuit (disconnected) when the load itself is disconnected. Failure to do so could under some circumstances cause the inverter control-loop circuitry to go unstable, leading to unpredictable inverter operation, and possible damage/failure in the power system. Disconnecting the capacitor with the load alleviate this possibility. Regards to all... Dan Lepinski --- On Wed, 4/17/13, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: From: Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 2:09 PM We experience issues like this from time to time. PF seems to be the culprit. Have you measured it or looked at the waveform yet? How an inverter deals with PF seems to vary broadly. For example, the Splendide XC2100 washer/dryer will not work on a Magnum Energy and a few other sine wave inverters. However, it will run on a low cost GoPower or Samlex sine wave inverter. Below is a scope trace of voltage/current of the Magnum inverter Splendide washer. Upper trace is voltage By adding a 50uF run capacitor inline, it somewhat tames the current phase and the sine wave so the Magnum can operate the washer. (Special thanks to Al for the discovery and photos) Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Apr 16, 2013, at 9:46 AM, All Solar allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Have a client with a new coffee maker that will not run from their new dual outback setup. Has anyone heard of this lately. We have had no problems with appliances and sine wave inverters. What to look for? Sent from Jeremy's IPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form
Thanks Dan. I should have mentioned that this fix is for the washer only and should be installed in a switchable circuit inside the washer or on the washer only circuit. Larry On Apr 17, 2013, at 12:51 PM, Exeltech exelt...@yahoo.com wrote: Wrenches, While the addition of a capacitor may resolve issues associated with various inverter/appliance/motor combinations, please make sure the capacitor(s) get switched OUT of the circuit (disconnected) when the load itself is disconnected. Failure to do so could under some circumstances cause the inverter control-loop circuitry to go unstable, leading to unpredictable inverter operation, and possible damage/failure in the power system. Disconnecting the capacitor with the load alleviate this possibility. Regards to all... Dan Lepinski --- On Wed, 4/17/13, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com wrote: From: Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 2:09 PM We experience issues like this from time to time. PF seems to be the culprit. Have you measured it or looked at the waveform yet? How an inverter deals with PF seems to vary broadly. For example, the Splendide XC2100 washer/dryer will not work on a Magnum Energy and a few other sine wave inverters. However, it will run on a low cost GoPower or Samlex sine wave inverter. Below is a scope trace of voltage/current of the Magnum inverter Splendide washer. Upper trace is voltage By adding a 50uF run capacitor inline, it somewhat tames the current phase and the sine wave so the Magnum can operate the washer. (Special thanks to Al for the discovery and photos) Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Apr 16, 2013, at 9:46 AM, All Solar allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Have a client with a new coffee maker that will not run from their new dual outback setup. Has anyone heard of this lately. We have had no problems with appliances and sine wave inverters. What to look for? Sent from Jeremy's IPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___i ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form
Wrenches, regarding installing these capacitors in parallel with the load, how do you size the capacitor, from a input current or power perspective, and also a capacitance rating perspective? On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 1:51 PM, Exeltech exelt...@yahoo.com wrote: Wrenches, While the addition of a capacitor may resolve issues associated with various inverter/appliance/motor combinations, please make sure the capacitor(s) get switched OUT of the circuit (disconnected) when the load itself is disconnected. Failure to do so could under some circumstances cause the inverter control-loop circuitry to go unstable, leading to unpredictable inverter operation, and possible damage/failure in the power system. Disconnecting the capacitor with the load alleviate this possibility. Regards to all... Dan Lepinski --- On *Wed, 4/17/13, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com* wrote: From: Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback wave form To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Date: Wednesday, April 17, 2013, 2:09 PM We experience issues like this from time to time. PF seems to be the culprit. Have you measured it or looked at the waveform yet? How an inverter deals with PF seems to vary broadly. For example, the Splendide XC2100 washer/dryer will not work on a Magnum Energy and a few other sine wave inverters. However, it will run on a low cost GoPower or Samlex sine wave inverter. Below is a scope trace of voltage/current of the Magnum inverter Splendide washer. Upper trace is voltage By adding a 50uF run capacitor inline, it somewhat tames the current phase and the sine wave so the Magnum can operate the washer. (Special thanks to Al for the discovery and photos) Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Apr 16, 2013, at 9:46 AM, All Solar allso...@scswifi.nethttp://mc/compose?to=allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Have a client with a new coffee maker that will not run from their new dual outback setup. Has anyone heard of this lately. We have had no problems with appliances and sine wave inverters. What to look for? Sent from Jeremy's IPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orghttp://mc/compose?to=RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orghttp://mc/compose?to=RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis * Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Cleaning Modules
Greetings Wrenches, I am wondering if anyone can offer tried-and-true tips for cleaning modules: tools, materials, methods? -- Corey Shalanski Joule Energy http://joule-energy.com/ New Orleans, LA ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] ground mount options?
Schletter has a nice small kit package if you are looking for something in AL. Terrasmart is also a favorite of ours for challenging soil conditions - their ground screws go through anything. Great team over there too. Sunlink LGMS flies up if you have good flat soil. Pricey at small sizes but cost effective for larger projects. On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Jesse Dahl dahlso...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I've been asked to put together a proposal for a local community and the only option is a ground mount (pole mount would work too). I've looked at a few options today and was wondering if anyone has any opinions on the DPW Power Peak mounting system? Also, I would be interested in any other ground mount options that people like/recommend. I've used the two-tier mount on a few projects and the DPW MPM and liked them good enough, but I'm always interested in trying new mounts. Thanks! Jesse ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Regards, Chris Anderson Chief Technology Officer Borrego Solar Systems 1115 Westford Street, 2nd floor Lowell, MA 01851 M: 603-732-2411 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
