Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum. http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output terminals on the Magnum. Under normal operation, the Magnum passes the power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the grid. If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the Magnum and the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to make a sine wave that the UI inverter will export power to. You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%). Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on is out yet or not. I've never done this, but I am about to. Any wrenches have experience doing an AC coupled magnum? On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: Ray, The battery-based inverter in an AC-coupled system should not be grid-interactive. The grid passes through the BB inverter to the grid-direct inverter(s). The BB inverter is there to create a stable grid-like signal for the grid-direct inverters when the grid is not present, and to manage the batteries. Thus, the pass-through AC capability of the BB inverters normally (there is a complicated work-around) must be able to handle all of the PV AC output, when loads are low. You probably are aware, but to make it clear in this thread: the system needs to have some method to protect the batteries from overcharging, as a result of the grid-direct inverter output when the grid is down and loads can't use all the solar energy available. With the Sunny Islands it's done by a signal that reduces output from the Sunny Boys without disconnecting them. With Outback and others it's done with a installer-designed relay that disconnects the grid-direct inverter when the battery voltage gets to a set point. We haven't done an AC-coupled system with the Radian, yet. Sounds like the remote controlled breaker is Outback's approved and listed way to do it. About time. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP PV Installation Professional WA Electrical Administrator ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH FAX: 360.678.7131 On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: The Outback rep got me some good info, and I'm liking the Radian with the Remote controlled breaker to control the GT inverter when the grid is out. I've heard of quite a few problems related to the Sunny Island frequency controlled system. My question is can off grid inverters like the Magnum be AC coupled? I'm trying to get the price down, and still handle the 240 vac input from the GT inverter. I penciled out the Radian and I was topping $10k before installation. This customer is hoping for a solution under $10k, and closer to $5k if possible. I think an elegant lower cost solution for Grid tie with battery back up is in order. A Radian Lite? For backup, it could even be mod sine, as it wouldn't be much worse than generator power or the average UPS setup. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 7/30/2013 2:59 PM, Ray Walters wrote: Hi All; I know AC coupled systems have been covered before, but I have a new issue: positive grounding. A customer with an existing 8kw Sunpower system wants to add backup. He was put off by the high cost the Sunny Island, so I was steering him towards a single Outback VFX coupled to just one of his 3 inverters. The issue is how will the VFX work with positive grounded inverters. I'm assuming that since the two inverters will only be connected by AC, that the positive vs negative grounding of their separate DC systems will not matter. Any experience with this particular scenario: Sunpower system AC coupled to an Outback? Also, would I even need a GVFX, since the inverter would only be used during outages (which might allow a generator to be used later as well) A VFX should still AC couple to the GT inverter during an outage, right? Thanks as always, ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum. http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output terminals on the Magnum. If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the Magnum and the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to make a sine wave. You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through rating on the internal relays, and the grid connected inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%). Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on is out yet or not. I've never done this, but I am about to. Any wrenches have experience doing an AC coupled magnum? On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 11:37 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind ke...@whidbeysunwind.com wrote: Ray, The battery-based inverter in an AC-coupled system should not be grid-interactive. The grid passes through the BB inverter to the grid-direct inverter(s). The BB inverter is there to create a stable grid-like signal for the grid-direct inverters when the grid is not present, and to manage the batteries. Thus, the pass-through AC capability of the BB inverters normally (there is a complicated work-around) must be able to handle all of the PV AC output, when loads are low. You probably are aware, but to make it clear in this thread: the system needs to have some method to protect the batteries from overcharging, as a result of the grid-direct inverter output when the grid is down and loads can't use all the solar energy available. With the Sunny Islands it's done by a signal that reduces output from the Sunny Boys without disconnecting them. With Outback and others it's done with a installer-designed relay that disconnects the grid-direct inverter when the battery voltage gets to a set point. We haven't done an AC-coupled system with the Radian, yet. Sounds like the remote controlled breaker is Outback's approved and listed way to do it. About time. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP PV Installation Professional WA Electrical Administrator ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH FAX: 360.678.7131 On Jul 30, 2013, at 4:23 PM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: The Outback rep got me some good info, and I'm liking the Radian with the Remote controlled breaker to control the GT inverter when the grid is out. I've heard of quite a few problems related to the Sunny Island frequency controlled system. My question is can off grid inverters like the Magnum be AC coupled? I'm trying to get the price down, and still handle the 240 vac input from the GT inverter. I penciled out the Radian and I was topping $10k before installation. This customer is hoping for a solution under $10k, and closer to $5k if possible. I think an elegant lower cost solution for Grid tie with battery back up is in order. A Radian Lite? For backup, it could even be mod sine, as it wouldn't be much worse than generator power or the average UPS setup. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 7/30/2013 2:59 PM, Ray Walters wrote: Hi All; I know AC coupled systems have been covered before, but I have a new issue: positive grounding. A customer with an existing 8kw Sunpower system wants to add backup. He was put off by the high cost the Sunny Island, so I was steering him towards a single Outback VFX coupled to just one of his 3 inverters. The issue is how will the VFX work with positive grounded inverters. I'm assuming that since the two inverters will only be connected by AC, that the positive vs negative grounding of their separate DC systems will not matter. Any experience with this particular scenario: Sunpower system AC coupled to an Outback? Also, would I even need a GVFX, since the inverter would only be used during outages (which might allow a generator to be used later as well) A VFX should still AC couple to the GT inverter during an outage, right? Thanks as always, ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Hi Kelly; I agree the Radian system is appealing. Its basically uses a circuit breaker that can be controlled like a relay as well, and just disconnects the GT inverter. I'm going to offer a brief table of what I've found for my choices: Brand Control Method Pros Cons SMA Sunny Island Frequency shift to disconnect GT inverter simplest wiring, Trusted GT industry player most expensive, Freq shift can cause other problems Outback Radian Remote controlled Circuit breaker disconnects GT inverter fairly simple wiring, relay and breaker are combined, better control of battery charging still expensive, not available in smaller than 8 kw model Magnum Diversion load controls for battery regulation (soon to offer AC load control) lower cost, proven technology, freq shift control offered as fail safe most complicated wiring, diversion loads not always reliable or available Modsine Backup system no AC coupling, just an old fashioned backup system low cost complicated, needs customer interaction, not as efficient, GT PV not used, dedicated PV modules only charge backup system Generator No AC coupling, generator runs backup loads lowest cost, backup power available for as long as outage (no batteries) best for week long outages that only occur every few years Not Renewable, fuel storage issues, doesn't switch fast enough to maintain computers, etc. I'm still pricing out the options, but the SI and Radian seem a bit overkill for smaller systems. Backup inverter power of just a couple thousand watts is all that most people need. The Magnum is appealing, but I have quite a bit of experience with load diversion controls from wind and Hydro systems, and I really feel that its overly complicated for the less than 1% of the time that the grid is out. Keeping the battery from being damaged is what's important, but maintaining full 3 stage charging for a couple of days a year is not. The batteries can be properly charged once the grid returns. May be able to use Outback's ROCB with the Magnum? That might get the best of both worlds. If I was building the entire system to start, I'd just use a single Outback GVFX with its own PV array, and add GT inverters and array that were independent for the rest of the GT requirements. This project however is retrofitting an existing GT system. I've done many backup systems in the days before Grid Tie, and they work fairly well. Basically either the modules are not used much of the time, or the customer has a few circuits that are on the backup system (off grid) all the time. They operate it just like an off grid system, the only difference is that when its time to run a generator, they can just switch to the grid. These are not for your average customer, but can work well for someone that likes to save money and tinker. Another consideration is that if the battery bank is large enough relative to the array, over charging becomes less of an issue; especially with flooded cells that can stand a bit of over charging (equalization) every now and then. However, I can see that the average small sealed battery bank hooked up to several KWs of PV could get ruined in a day. I'll close with a quote from Joe Swartz in his 2012 Solar pro magazine article : AC coupling is still the Wild West of renewable energy applications R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 7/30/2013 11:37 PM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun Wind wrote: Ray, The battery-based inverter in an AC-coupled system should not be grid-interactive. The grid passes through the BB inverter to the grid-direct inverter(s). The BB inverter is there to create a stable grid-like signal for the grid-direct inverters when the grid is not present, and to manage the batteries. Thus, the pass-through AC capability of the BB inverters normally (there is a complicated work-around) must be able to handle all of the PV AC output, when loads are low. You probably are aware, but to make it clear in this thread: the system needs to have some method to protect the batteries from overcharging, as a result of the grid-direct inverter output when the grid is down and loads can't use all the solar energy available. With the Sunny Islands it's done by a signal that reduces output from the Sunny Boys without disconnecting them. With Outback and others it's done with a installer-designed relay that disconnects the grid-direct inverter when the battery voltage gets to a set point. We haven't done an AC-coupled system with the Radian, yet. Sounds like the remote controlled breaker is Outback's approved and listed way to do it. About time. -Kelly Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP PV Installation Professional WA Electrical Administrator
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Ray
You did not mention the XW, it frequency dithers so it is a pretty
straight forward setup. It also comes in 4, 4.5 and 6KW
Ryan
On 7/31/2013 2:04 PM, Ray Walters
wrote:
Hi Kelly;
I agree the Radian system is appealing. Its basically uses a
circuit breaker that can be controlled like a relay as well, and
just disconnects the GT inverter.
I'm going to offer a brief table of what I've found for my
choices:
Brand
Control Method
Pros
Cons
SMA Sunny Island
Frequency shift to disconnect GT inverter
simplest wiring, Trusted GT industry
player
most expensive, Freq shift can cause
other problems
Outback Radian
Remote controlled Circuit breaker
disconnects GT inverter
fairly simple wiring, relay and breaker
are combined, better control of battery charging
still expensive, not available in smaller
than 8 kw model
Magnum
Diversion load controls for battery
regulation (soon to offer AC load control)
lower cost, proven technology, freq shift
control offered as fail safe
most complicated wiring, diversion loads
not always reliable or available
Modsine Backup system
no AC coupling, just an old fashioned
backup system
low cost
complicated, needs customer interaction,
not as efficient, GT PV not used, dedicated PV modules
only charge backup system
Generator
No AC coupling, generator runs backup
loads
lowest cost, backup power available for
as long as outage (no batteries)
best for week long outages that only occur every few
years
Not Renewable, fuel storage issues,
doesn't switch fast enough to maintain computers, etc.
I'm still pricing out the options, but the SI and Radian seem a
bit overkill for smaller systems. Backup inverter power of just
a couple thousand watts is all that most people need. The
Magnum is appealing, but I have quite a bit of experience with
load diversion controls from wind and Hydro systems, and I
really feel that its overly complicated for the less than 1% of
the time that the grid is out. Keeping the battery from being
damaged is what's important, but maintaining full 3 stage
charging for a couple of days a year is not. The batteries can
be properly charged once the grid returns. May be able to use
Outback's ROCB with the Magnum? That might get the best of both
worlds.
If I was building the entire system to start, I'd just use a
single Outback GVFX with its own PV array, and add GT inverters
and array that were independent for the rest of the GT
requirements. This project however is retrofitting an existing
GT system.
I've done many backup systems in the days before Grid Tie, and
they work fairly well. Basically either the modules are not
used much of the time, or the customer has a few circuits that
are on the backup system (off grid) all the time. They operate
it just like an off grid system, the only difference is that
when its time to run a generator, they can just switch to the
grid. These are not for your average customer, but can work
well for someone that likes to save money and tinker.
Another consideration is that if the battery bank is large
enough relative to the array, over charging becomes less of an
issue; especially with flooded cells that can stand a bit of
over charging ("equalization") every now and then. However, I
can see that the average small sealed battery bank hooked up to
several KWs of PV could get ruined in a day.
I'll close with a quote from Joe Swartz in his 2012 Solar pro
magazine article :
"AC coupling is still the Wild West of
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Mac, We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year. Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way to do this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced remote control (ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified battery voltage setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. Unfortunately the cheapest way sometimes comes back to haunt us in the form of unanticipated extra costs. We had two customer callbacks indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut down - site visit revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend at least investing in a good quality relay if you choose this route. One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive inverters are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power One Aurora string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid mode - we have had to switch out Auroras on two projects because of this. We have had no such synchronization issues with SMA inverters so far. -- Corey Shalanski Joule Energy New Orleans, LA On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum. http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output terminals on the Magnum. Under normal operation, the Magnum passes the power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the grid. If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the Magnum and the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to make a sine wave that the UI inverter will export power to. You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%). Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on is out yet or not. I've never done this, but I am about to. Any wrenches have experience doing an AC coupled magnum? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Right, Corey. All critical loads and their wiring aside, the GT only inverter cannot put out more current than the pass through relay in the BB inverter is rated for. For example, you would not want to use a 100 kW PV-GT only inverter on the AC output of a 4 kW BB inverter. When grid is up, the GT only inverter is in parallel with the grid just like it would be if it were not going through the pass through relay except that the relay in the BB inverter AC current and voltage ratings must be payed attention to. boB On 7/31/2013 11:24 AM, Corey Shalanski wrote: Mac, We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year. Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way to do this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced remote control (ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified battery voltage setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. Unfortunately the cheapest way sometimes comes back to haunt us in the form of unanticipated extra costs. We had two customer callbacks indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut down - site visit revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend at least investing in a good quality relay if you choose this route. One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive inverters are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power One Aurora string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid mode - we have had to switch out Auroras on two projects because of this. We have had no such synchronization issues with SMA inverters so far. -- Corey Shalanski Joule Energy New Orleans, LA On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com mailto:maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum. http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output terminals on the Magnum. Under normal operation, the Magnum passes the power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the grid. If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the Magnum and the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to make a sine wave that the UI inverter will export power to. You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%). Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on is out yet or not. I've never done this, but I am about to. Any wrenches have experience doing an AC coupled magnum? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Corey; Would you mind sharing what relay didn't work, and which ones did, along with inverter output current? Since the relays will be running for hours at inverter rated output, my thinking would be to oversize the relay by at least a factor of three. I might try Outback's relay/ breaker ( ROCB) if possible. Thanks again for sharing, R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 7/31/2013 12:24 PM, Corey Shalanski wrote: Mac, We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year. Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way to do this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced remote control (ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified battery voltage setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. Unfortunately the cheapest way sometimes comes back to haunt us in the form of unanticipated extra costs. We had two customer callbacks indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut down - site visit revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend at least investing in a good quality relay if you choose this route. One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive inverters are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power One Aurora string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid mode - we have had to switch out Auroras on two projects because of this. We have had no such synchronization issues with SMA inverters so far. -- Corey Shalanski Joule Energy New Orleans, LA On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com mailto:maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum. http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output terminals on the Magnum. Under normal operation, the Magnum passes the power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the grid. If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the Magnum and the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to make a sine wave that the UI inverter will export power to. You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%). Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on is out yet or not. I've never done this, but I am about to. Any wrenches have experience doing an AC coupled magnum? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Unknown rail.
snapnrack Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-592-3958 o On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 1:21 PM, All Solar allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Can anyone please identify the rail on the photo? Regards Jeremy Rodriguez AllSolar Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Unknown rail.
Looks like SnapNRack. Get some new bolt and clamp sets before you start loosening anything. The SS bolts can spall, and the last one we worked on, we had to replace 1/3 of the hardware. We used anti-seize thread lubricant and a torque wrench on reinstallation. SnapN Rack seems pretty decent overall, just hard to remove if over torqued. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 7/31/2013 2:21 PM, All Solar wrote: Can anyone please identify the rail on the photo? Regards Jeremy Rodriguez AllSolar Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Unknown rail.
Hi Jeremie, That looks like SnapNRack. On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 1:21 PM, All Solar allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Can anyone please identify the rail on the photo? Regards Jeremy Rodriguez AllSolar Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Cordially, *Nick Soleil* *Field Applications Engineer * *Enphase Energy* Mobile: (707) 321-2937 ** *Enphase Commercial Solar.* *Limitless.*http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=emailutm_medium=sigutm_campaign=Comm2012 * *http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=emailutm_medium=sigutm_campaign=Comm2012 1420 North McDowell Petaluma, CA 94954 www.enphase.com http://www.enphaseenergy.com/ P: (707) 763-4784 x7267 F: (707) 763-0784 E: nsol...@enphaseenergy.com [image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 “Don’t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It’s just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there’s an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it’s wireless! .” - William McDonough This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message. image002.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
The deltrol model 375s work well. Send me a request offline and I can send you a spec sheet. Steve Higgins Technical Services Manager M: +1.206.790.5840 F: +1.902.597.8447 Surrette Battery Company Exclusive manufacturer of [cid:rolls3c17ab]http://www.rollsbattery.com From: Ray Walters Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2013 12:55 PM To: RE-wrenches Reply To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower? Corey; Would you mind sharing what relay didn't work, and which ones did, along with inverter output current? Since the relays will be running for hours at inverter rated output, my thinking would be to oversize the relay by at least a factor of three. I might try Outback's relay/ breaker ( ROCB) if possible. Thanks again for sharing, R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 7/31/2013 12:24 PM, Corey Shalanski wrote: Mac, We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year. Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way to do this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced remote control (ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified battery voltage setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. Unfortunately the cheapest way sometimes comes back to haunt us in the form of unanticipated extra costs. We had two customer callbacks indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut down - site visit revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend at least investing in a good quality relay if you choose this route. One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive inverters are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power One Aurora string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid mode - we have had to switch out Auroras on two projects because of this. We have had no such synchronization issues with SMA inverters so far. -- Corey Shalanski Joule Energy New Orleans, LA On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.commailto:maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Here is a paper on AC coupling the magnum. http://www.wholesalesolar.com/pdf.folder/inverter%20pdf%20folder/MagnumACcoupling.pdf The key is to connect the AC input terminals on the Magnum to the main panel (or a panel closer to the utility feed) and then feed the utility interactive inverter to a subpanel that is connected to the AC output terminals on the Magnum. Under normal operation, the Magnum passes the power through and the utility interactive inverter is connected to the grid. If the grid goes down, the internal relays isolate the Magnum and the critical load panel from the grid and the Magnum starts to make a sine wave that the UI inverter will export power to. You have to keep the critical load panel amperage below the pass through rating on the internal relays on the Magnum, and the grid connected inverter needs to have a lower output than the Magnum (I think by 10%). Also, I'm not sure if the diversion controller Magnum has been working on is out yet or not. I've never done this, but I am about to. Any wrenches have experience doing an AC coupled magnum? ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgmailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmhttp://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.orghttp://www.members.re-wrenches.org This email and its attachments have been scanned by iConnection E-Mail Firewall for viruses, spam, and malicious content. The information transmitted in this email is intended only for the entity or person to which it is addressed and may contain confidential/privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. %^^% inline: rolls3c17ab___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Source for Filon
Anyone know of a source for Filon, our supplier is out of business. Trying to re-glaze a panel. All Solar, Inc. Jeremy and Amy Rodriguez 1463 M St Penrose, CO 81240 www.asolarelectric.com Phone 719-372-3808 Fax 719-372-3804 Email allso...@scswifi.net Email allso...@live.com___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback AC coupling Sunpower?
Hi Corey, Did you mount the SS relays to a good heat sink with heat compound? They are quite sensitive to heat damage and also like a lot things optimistically rated. I use a 2X oversize ratio for SS relays if they are used very much at all or for longer periods of time. And I think you are correct to install a back up to the frequency shift that may or may not work. jay peltz power On Jul 31, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Corey Shalanski wrote: Mac, We have installed about ten AC coupled Magnum systems over the past year. Overcharge protection is accomplished by frequency shift, but Magnum recommends an auxiliary form of battery management. The cheapest way to do this is to program the relay driver on the Magnum advanced remote control (ARC) to open/close a solid state relay at specified battery voltage setpoints - similar to what Kelly mentioned. Unfortunately the cheapest way sometimes comes back to haunt us in the form of unanticipated extra costs. We had two customer callbacks indicating their inverter had mysteriously shut down - site visit revealed a fried relay in each case.. so I would recommend at least investing in a good quality relay if you choose this route. One other thing we have learned is that not all grid interactive inverters are compatible with the Magnum inverters. Specifically Power One Aurora string inverters cannot seem to synchronize in off-grid mode - we have had to switch out Auroras on two projects because of this. We have had no such synchronization issues with SMA inverters so far. -- Corey Shalanski Joule Energy New Orleans, LA ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Unknown rail.
I'm not debating that it is snapnrack, but it does look very similar to Kinetic, which we are using a lot of these days. benn Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts and typos. On 2013-07-31, at 2:21 PM, All Solar allso...@scswifi.net wrote: Can anyone please identify the rail on the photo? Regards Jeremy Rodriguez AllSolar image.jpeg Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
