[RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
Friends: We are shopping for industrial, flooded, lead acid batteries. We are considering 12 volt packages in the 1800 AH range. Under consideration are: Hawker 12-25W-23S at 1705 AH or MK 106M1033STB at 1896 AH. Have any of you had experience with either, or recommend another option? As always, I am extremely grateful to all of you for the limitless wisdom offered. Sinceerly, William Miller ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
I install large battery banks ALL the time. We DO NOT use any battery that is
incased in a metal enclosure.
REAL pain to move, cells DO go bad when they do its a real pain to bring the
engine hoist to remove them. Hard to keep the cases from leaking rusting.
We DO use the Surrette 2 volt cells in the dual container exclusively. These
are rated as a containment vessel, much easier to move. In the event when a
cell does go bad, use a jumper to bypass the bad cell, operate w/ a lower LBCO
setting leave the CC settings the same, while waiting for replacement.
1700 AH -2400 AH.
By the time you have the tractor/back hoe on site, my 2 volt cells are up n
running! E mail me off list and I can give you a few tricks to move them.
On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:28 AM, William Miller wrote:
Friends:
We are shopping for industrial, flooded, lead acid batteries. We are
considering 12 volt packages in the 1800 AH range. Under consideration are:
Hawker 12-25W-23S at 1705 AH or MK 106M1033STB at 1896 AH.
Have any of you had experience with either, or recommend another option?
As always, I am extremely grateful to all of you for the limitless wisdom
offered.
Sinceerly,
William Miller
___
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Serving Mid Coast Maine Northern California
207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401
Blair TUMP May
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
I second Tump's experience!
Daryl DeJoy
NABCEP Certified PV installer
Penobscot Solar Design
I install large battery banks ALL the time. We DO NOT use any battery that
is incased in a metal enclosure.
REAL pain to move, cells DO go bad when they do its a real pain to bring
the engine hoist to remove them. Hard to keep the cases from leaking
rusting.
We DO use the Surrette 2 volt cells in the dual container exclusively.
These are rated as a containment vessel, much easier to move. In the
event when a cell does go bad, use a jumper to bypass the bad cell,
operate w/ a lower LBCO setting leave the CC settings the same, while
waiting for replacement.
1700 AH -2400 AH.
By the time you have the tractor/back hoe on site, my 2 volt cells are up
n running! E mail me off list and I can give you a few tricks to move
them.
On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:28 AM, William Miller wrote:
Friends:
We are shopping for industrial, flooded, lead acid batteries. We are
considering 12 volt packages in the 1800 AH range. Under consideration
are:
Hawker 12-25W-23S at 1705 AH or MK 106M1033STB at 1896 AH.
Have any of you had experience with either, or recommend another option?
As always, I am extremely grateful to all of you for the limitless
wisdom offered.
Sinceerly,
William Miller
___
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Solarwinds Northernlights
Serving Mid Coast Maine Northern California
207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401
Blair TUMP May
MAINE'S CHARTER
NABCEPCertified PV Installer
MAINE'S CHARTER
Trace Xantrex Certified Dealer / Installer
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
I agree with Daryl and Tump
And would add Trojan IND as an option to the Rolls and made in SoCal
Also most of the industrial battery folks make 2v cells.
Jay
Peltz power.
On Aug 13, 2013, at 4:55 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote:
I second Tump's experience!
Daryl DeJoy
NABCEP Certified PV installer
Penobscot Solar Design
I install large battery banks ALL the time. We DO NOT use any battery that
is incased in a metal enclosure.
REAL pain to move, cells DO go bad when they do its a real pain to bring
the engine hoist to remove them. Hard to keep the cases from leaking
rusting.
We DO use the Surrette 2 volt cells in the dual container exclusively.
These are rated as a containment vessel, much easier to move. In the
event when a cell does go bad, use a jumper to bypass the bad cell,
operate w/ a lower LBCO setting leave the CC settings the same, while
waiting for replacement.
1700 AH -2400 AH.
By the time you have the tractor/back hoe on site, my 2 volt cells are up
n running! E mail me off list and I can give you a few tricks to move
them.
On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:28 AM, William Miller wrote:
Friends:
We are shopping for industrial, flooded, lead acid batteries. We are
considering 12 volt packages in the 1800 AH range. Under consideration
are:
Hawker 12-25W-23S at 1705 AH or MK 106M1033STB at 1896 AH.
Have any of you had experience with either, or recommend another option?
As always, I am extremely grateful to all of you for the limitless
wisdom offered.
Sinceerly,
William Miller
___
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Solarwinds Northernlights
Serving Mid Coast Maine Northern California
207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401
Blair TUMP May
MAINE'S CHARTER
NABCEPCertified PV Installer
MAINE'S CHARTER
Trace Xantrex Certified Dealer / Installer
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[RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
Here's a third for 2V Surrette's... However you should discuss details with this list or someone at Surrette regarding your application. For an example, Solar Power source? C/rate? Are you replacing a set of golf cart batts or batteries with similar charging needs as these large cells? The 2V 1766AH cells seem to prefer being charged longer and slower than say a T-105 or an L-16 to ensure proper SG's (others please chime in hear with similar/different experiences). Yes, being easier to move is great...a handtruck or 2 bodies works perfect. Dual container simplifies your battery box AND keeping the tops clean. The large/tall area above the plates means less watering. One warning though is insist on getting all the cells from one batch. If your supplier has to wait for cells from some other distributor to make up your pack, ask to wait for all cells to come from one production batch. I know a lot of folks have and love metal cased 12V packs (I'm still working one myself) but I won't be going that route again for a variety of reasons. It's a big investment, do your homework. there's 2 more cents worth. Bill Feather River Solar Electric - Original Message - From: penobscotso...@midmaine.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK I second Tump's experience! Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design I install large battery banks ALL the time. We DO NOT use any battery that is incased in a metal enclosure. REAL pain to move, cells DO go bad when they do its a real pain to bring the engine hoist to remove them. Hard to keep the cases from leaking rusting. We DO use the Surrette 2 volt cells in the dual container exclusively. These are rated as a containment vessel, much easier to move. In the event when a cell does go bad, use a jumper to bypass the bad cell, operate w/ a lower LBCO setting leave the CC settings the same, while waiting for replacement. 1700 AH -2400 AH. By the time you have the tractor/back hoe on site, my 2 volt cells are up n running! E mail me off list and I can give you a few tricks to move them. On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:28 AM, William Miller wrote: Friends: We are shopping for industrial, flooded, lead acid batteries. We are considering 12 volt packages in the 1800 AH range. Under consideration are: Hawker 12-25W-23S at 1705 AH or MK 106M1033STB at 1896 AH. Have any of you had experience with either, or recommend another option? As always, I am extremely grateful to all of you for the limitless wisdom offered. Sinceerly, William Miller ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
William.we have used a set of industrial flooded lead acid batteries
made by a company called Storage Battery Systems (www.sbs*battery*.com)The
batteries are 2V batteries with 3200Ah capacityThey come with a variety
of warranty options. Our client decided on the 20 year option (5 years
full, 15years prorated) They have a clear case so you can easily with just
a glance see the level of the electrolyte.They have tubular plates and
came with all the interconnects which cover any exposed metal at the
terminals once they are hooked up.. except a small hole to insert your
voltmeter leadsThey have 4 terminals on each battery so if you need to
run multiple homerun cables you have plenty of plenty of options with out
having to double lug your battery cables on a single terminal. They have
been in operation for almost 4years now without so much as showing any hint
of wear.While they are expensive they also offer extras such as seismic
racking, spill containment systems, and hydrogen gas level alarms. The
feeling that i got from this company is that they are more in the
industrial battery market and not so much the renewable energy
marketThey are worth a look.we are really happy with their
product
More frequently though we use the Rolls Surrette series 5000
batteries...They also have been reliablewe once had a reverse polarity
from the factory so check polarity of each battery before hooking them
up.These are our main go to batteries when a larger than 800ish Ah
battery bank is called for. Trojan also has their newer line of industrial
batteriesWe have used them a couple timeswarranty is not as good as
the Rollsbut they have the dual cases like the rolls and seemed like
good batteriesBoth the Trojan and Rolls are supplied with string
interconnects(make sure to remind your distributor)
We have had to train our distributor to supply good quality stainless bolts
(with sufficient length) with lock washers and washers with all battery
purchases
Good luck...
Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Renewable Energy Systems
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-218-0201 m
541-592-3958 o
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 7:57 AM, jay peltz j...@asis.com wrote:
I agree with Daryl and Tump
And would add Trojan IND as an option to the Rolls and made in SoCal
Also most of the industrial battery folks make 2v cells.
Jay
Peltz power.
On Aug 13, 2013, at 4:55 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote:
I second Tump's experience!
Daryl DeJoy
NABCEP Certified PV installer
Penobscot Solar Design
I install large battery banks ALL the time. We DO NOT use any battery
that
is incased in a metal enclosure.
REAL pain to move, cells DO go bad when they do its a real pain to
bring
the engine hoist to remove them. Hard to keep the cases from leaking
rusting.
We DO use the Surrette 2 volt cells in the dual container exclusively.
These are rated as a containment vessel, much easier to move. In the
event when a cell does go bad, use a jumper to bypass the bad cell,
operate w/ a lower LBCO setting leave the CC settings the same, while
waiting for replacement.
1700 AH -2400 AH.
By the time you have the tractor/back hoe on site, my 2 volt cells are
up
n running! E mail me off list and I can give you a few tricks to move
them.
On Aug 13, 2013, at 3:28 AM, William Miller wrote:
Friends:
We are shopping for industrial, flooded, lead acid batteries. We are
considering 12 volt packages in the 1800 AH range. Under consideration
are:
Hawker 12-25W-23S at 1705 AH or MK 106M1033STB at 1896 AH.
Have any of you had experience with either, or recommend another
option?
As always, I am extremely grateful to all of you for the limitless
wisdom offered.
Sinceerly,
William Miller
___
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Solarwinds Northernlights
Serving Mid Coast Maine Northern California
207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401
Blair TUMP May
MAINE'S CHARTER
NABCEPCertified PV Installer
MAINE'S CHARTER
Trace Xantrex Certified Dealer / Installer
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
I've got two Hawker installs out here, a 48 Volt and a 24 Volt system. Both are going on 6 years or so. Clients are happy, I'm happy. It does resemble work to move and place them. We typically use Egyptian techniques when heavy equipment isn't available or appropriate. Inclined plane, big pry bars, rollers, come along, block tackle. It's kind of fun to try to outsmart the mass. It's interesting to experience gravity's effect on lead, atomic weight 207.2. Glad it's not Uranium at 238. Thankfully, we've not had to replace a cell. That always sucks, regardless. If I remember correctly, the steel cans had welded seams. The cans make the use of insulated tools even more important. Should you ground the cans??? Speaking of replacing cells. I looked at a 5 year old bank of 8 Rolls L16s this weekend. Two of the batteries had a dead cell. This in a bank that had a single battery replaced at 6 months or less because of a bad cell. I've also got a 7 year old bank of 12 Surrette / Rolls 2 Volt units installed. The only problem so far was on day one when they arrived. They were shipped on a single, narrow, beat up pallet. Some had obviously tipped over in transit and had lost a considerable amount of electrolyte. Northern Arizona Wind Sun user's forum has posts reporting similar experiences. I dread receiving expensive pallets of batteries and modules from shippers. High percentage of damage. Steel cans instead of plastic wrap is worth thinking about. Hope this doesn't just muddy the water. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Question re Midnite surge arrestors
Wrenches, Very seldom do inverters in off grid systems ever go to sleep anymore, given the increase in phantom electronic loads and greater customer expectations. Coupled with lower module prices, we usually size larger arrays and inverters remain on continuously. However, we also service and upgrade many existing systems, and some customers still want their inverters to go into search mode. They typically either have gotten used to a more energy frugal lifestyle over many years, or (to their credit) choose to buck the system and live with a lighter energy and resource footprint. Twice in recent months we have added Midnite MNSPD MV surge arrestors to the AC output of smaller systems and discovered that the inverters will no longer go into search mode. It doesn't appear to make any difference where the search watts threshhold is set. One system used a 24V Outback FX2524T (with current boards following a nearby lightning strike) and the other used a Magnum MS2812. In the former case, we defeated the search (against the customer's preference, as she liked the total silence once her day was done). In the latter, the customer rejected and we removed the surge arrestor once it became clear that the inverter wouldn't sleep. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a fix for it? Robin, can you chime in here (off list if necessary; I'll carefully post your response)? Thank you, Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Question re Midnite surge arrestors
Allan That is not expected behavior. Which model of SPD are you using? Ryan On 8/13/2013 1:08 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, Very seldom do inverters in off grid systems ever go to sleep anymore, given the increase in phantom electronic loads and greater customer expectations. Coupled with lower module prices, we usually size larger arrays and inverters remain on continuously. However, we also service and upgrade many existing systems, and some customers still want their inverters to go into search mode. They typically either have gotten used to a more energy frugal lifestyle over many years, or (to their credit) choose to buck the system and live with a lighter energy and resource footprint. Twice in recent months we have added Midnite MNSPD MV surge arrestors to the AC output of smaller systems and discovered that the inverters will no longer go into search mode. It doesn't appear to make any difference where the search watts threshhold is set. One system used a 24V Outback FX2524T (with current boards following a nearby lightning strike) and the other used a Magnum MS2812. In the former case, we defeated the search (against the customer's preference, as she liked the total silence once her day was done). In the latter, the customer rejected and we removed the surge arrestor once it became clear that the inverter wouldn't sleep. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a fix for it? Robin, can you chime in here (off list if necessary; I'll carefully post your response)? Thank you, Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Question re Midnite surge arrestors
Ryan, I may have found the answer to my original post, but it raises more questions. I wrote that these were MV units (MNSPD300), but I checked with my lead tech and learned that in both cases he used LV units (MNSPD115). Could this be the reason? He told me that he has used the LV with 120V inverters and the MV with 120/240V inverters. The instruction manual states that the LV units are designed to be used on nominal 90VAC and 115VDC circuits, and have a Maximum Continuous Operating Voltage of 180V. The manual states: "The MidNite Solar SPD voltage rating should be chosen according to the nominal voltage of the system. Do not install an SPD with Maximum Continuous Operating Voltage (MCOV) below the nominal voltage of the system; this will deteriorate the SPD and making it unavailable when you most need it." If this is true, then the LV (with its 180 MCOV) should be fine at 120VAC. The instructions are confusing: should we use an MNSPD115 or an MNSPD300 with 120VAC output? And in this case, could this be the cause of the failure-to-sleep problem? If we should be using the MNSPD300 with 120VAC inverter output, then the description on the Midnite website is confusing at best. It states that the MNSPD115 "is designed for both AC and DC systems and provides protection to service panels, load centers or where the SPD is directly connected to the electronic device requiring protection." But service panels and load centers seldom if ever carry AC at less than 90VAC, the nominal rating of the MNSPD115. Please clarify all of this! Thanks, Allan On 8/13/2013 11:28 AM, Ryan wrote: Allan That is not expected behavior. Which model of SPD are you using? Ryan On 8/13/2013 1:08 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, Very seldom do inverters in off grid systems ever go to sleep anymore, given the increase in phantom electronic loads and greater customer expectations. Coupled with lower module prices, we usually size larger arrays and inverters remain on continuously. However, we also service and upgrade many existing systems, and some customers still want their inverters to go into search mode. They typically either have gotten used to a more energy frugal lifestyle over many years, or (to their credit) choose to buck the system and live with a lighter energy and resource footprint. Twice in recent months we have added Midnite MNSPD MV surge arrestors to the AC output of smaller systems and discovered that the inverters will no longer go into search mode. It doesn't appear to make any difference where the search watts threshhold is set. One system used a 24V Outback FX2524T (with current boards following a nearby lightning strike) and the other used a Magnum MS2812. In the former case, we defeated the search (against the customer's preference, as she liked the total silence once her day was done). In the latter, the customer rejected and we removed the surge arrestor once it became clear that the inverter wouldn't sleep. Has anyone else experienced this? Is there a fix for it? Robin, can you chime in here (off list if necessary; I'll carefully post your response)? Thank you, Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Hawker versusu MK
Hi Dick, Best trick I ever learned for these metal cased is to build a wheeled base with steel wheels. Yea, still have to get them onto the base, but then its easy. Also when I use metal cased batteries I like to have them with removable series interconnects not the welded type. Interesting to hear the comments on the Rolls shipping. I've seen that problem myself, but didn't realize that it was so common. jay peltz power On Aug 13, 2013, at 9:31 AM, Richard L Ratico wrote: I've got two Hawker installs out here, a 48 Volt and a 24 Volt system. Both are going on 6 years or so. Clients are happy, I'm happy. It does resemble work to move and place them. We typically use Egyptian techniques when heavy equipment isn't available or appropriate. Inclined plane, big pry bars, rollers, come along, block tackle. It's kind of fun to try to outsmart the mass. It's interesting to experience gravity's effect on lead, atomic weight 207.2. Glad it's not Uranium at 238. Thankfully, we've not had to replace a cell. That always sucks, regardless. If I remember correctly, the steel cans had welded seams. The cans make the use of insulated tools even more important. Should you ground the cans??? Speaking of replacing cells. I looked at a 5 year old bank of 8 Rolls L16s this weekend. Two of the batteries had a dead cell. This in a bank that had a single battery replaced at 6 months or less because of a bad cell. I've also got a 7 year old bank of 12 Surrette / Rolls 2 Volt units installed. The only problem so far was on day one when they arrived. They were shipped on a single, narrow, beat up pallet. Some had obviously tipped over in transit and had lost a considerable amount of electrolyte. Northern Arizona Wind Sun user's forum has posts reporting similar experiences. I dread receiving expensive pallets of batteries and modules from shippers. High percentage of damage. Steel cans instead of plastic wrap is worth thinking about. Hope this doesn't just muddy the water. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarBridge tech support
Carl, We have had excellent tech support from Solar Bridge! Try this: tech.supp...@solarbridgetech.com https://mail.google.com/mail/mu/mp/466/ Rebecca Lundberg Powerfully Green, MN Message: 2 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 16:10:59 -0400 From: SwingJunkie swingjun...@gmail.com To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar Bridge technical support contact Message-ID: 9432683d-7ea2-4f0b-aee3-2e9dc2621...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello wrenches Does anyone have a technical support contact At SolarBridge? Cheers Carl -- -- Rebecca Lundberg NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ® Owner/CEO, Powerfully Green rebecca.lundb...@powerfullygreen.com 763-438-1976 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
