Re: [RE-wrenches] DC Disconnects incorporated into grid-tie inverters. flammable surfaces

[Drake]

Hello William,

A separable DC disconnect is very important to me, and certainly 
should be standard equipment.


On the issue of flammable materials, I had the same question on an 
installation. A tech support person claimed that flammable referred 
to easily ignitable materials where as combustible referred to 
materials like wood. He told me it was ok to mount their inverter on 
a wood surface, as it was combustible, but not flammable. I've heard 
no more about the subject since. I hope it is true. Looking up the 
words in the dictionary, I don't seem that distinction.


Drake

Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/http://athens-electric.com/


At 11:11 PM 8/6/2015, you wrote:

Content-Type: multipart/related;
boundary==_NextPart_000_0CC8_01D0D084.17B73ED0
Content-Language: en-us

Dear Friends:

I have been pursuing some answers from Solectria on what appear to 
be significant defects in the design of their residential PVI series 
inverters.  I have finally received some final answers from them on 
a few issues and I am waiting on final answers on 
others.  Unfortunately the answers are not good.


1.Apparently the electronics portion of the PVI series inverter 
cannot be separated from the DC disconnect.  If you want to replace 
that inverter, you need to remove the entire chassis.  This of 
course exposes the lone service worker to high voltage DC.  The unit 
looks like it can be separated but they tell me it cannot be.  This 
reminds me of the Fronius IG series inverter.  I argued with Fronius 
for an entire day about how idiotic it was to propose tarping panels 
to protect service workers.  I submit that an inverter without a 
separatable disconnect requires an outboard DC disconnect or it is 
not viable.  The DC disconnect adds cost and clutter to any install.


Solectria has an outboard, remotely activated disconnect.  I was 
hoping to get my hands on one at a recent local sales seminar 
Solectria held, but the goofball presenting the seminar did not 
bother bringing one ( I can call him a goof ball because he has 
since left Solectria.  I would not otherwise call anyone at a 
manufacturer a name, they are all good people doing the best job 
they can with the products they are hired to represent).  Anyway, 
before I bid another Solectria I will price compare with the cost of 
the remote disconnect included.  I won't install one until I have 
touched the device to verify it is suitable.


I am taking a poll:  Which GT inverters have included, separatable 
DC disconnects?  How easy are they to replace?  How important is it 
to you that the DC disconnect be separatable?


2.The Solectria PVI installation manual indicates the inverter 
is not to be mounted to flammable surfaces.  You cannot mount 
these inverter on a wood surface, indoors or out.  The bracket is 
not wide enough to span two studs in most cases, so if you are 
mounting it inside, you cannot mount it on a plywood backboard and 
you cannot mount it on the exterior of a wood-sheeted structure.  It 
is not unlikely that if any trees are near your inverter, a few 
leaves will likely become lodged behind the inverter over time and 
they then could burst into flames.  To me this inverter heating 
seems very limiting.  It makes me think:  do I want to install a 
fire-starter on or in my customers homes?


Do any of you know of any other inverters that get hot enough to 
ignite the surface onto which they are mounted?


Thanks for the input.

William Miller

Gradient Cap_mini

Lic 773985
http://www.millersolar.com/millersolar.com
805-438-5600



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Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flash

[William Dorsett]

I agree with Ray on this, but think the neoprene boot here is so badly
separated more likely because the house is settling around it. Still it
cracked due to UV and would have failed anyway.

 

Bill Dorsett

Manhattan,  KS

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Wayne Irwin
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 4:20 PM
To: Wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flash

 

 
http://www.usshingle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/US-Shingle-Roof-Tune-Up
.png
http://www.usshingle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/US-Shingle-Roof-Tune-Up.
png


Wayne Irwin,
President
License #CVC56695 
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc. 
wa...@pureenergysolar.com mailto:pureenergyso...@hotmail.com  
http://PureEnergySolar.com
http://SolarChargingStation.net https://solarchargingstation.net 
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax


The Sun Is Always Shining!

The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use
or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail
and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.

 

  _  

Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 17:11:50 -0400
From: kjenergysyst...@gmail.com
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flash

Not that the names of things matter that much but imho flashing does
require an overlapping of some kind. An Oatey boot for a metal roof is more
of a bedded fitting than a flashing. It relies entirely on fasteners and a
sealing membrane whereas flashings rely mostly on natural forces like
gravity. Perhaps an experienced roofer weigh in on this.

Kurt Johnsen

 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Jason Szumlanski
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com wrote:

If you place a flat object on top of roofing without an uphill material
lapping over the downhill object, you are not flashing. 

 

By that logic, an Oatey boot is not a flashing for a plumbing vent on a
metal roof.

 

Just sayin'...

 


Jason Szumlanski

 

 

On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 2:19 PM, William Miller
william.mil...@millersolar.com wrote:

Ray:

 

I have to respectfully disagree with your semantics.  A flashing is an
overlapping of roofing materials such that gravity will direct rain and melt
water off of the roof.  This is a universally accepted waterproofing method
that does not depend on any sealant material.  The concept is as ancient as
the first, crude, thatched roof.

 

If you place a flat object on top of roofing without an uphill material
lapping over the downhill object, you are not flashing.  

 

What you have described is sealant-dependent weatherproofing.  Regardless of
the quality of the sealant, or lack thereof, I don't think you can call it a
flashed attachment.

 

(The overarching point is a flashed attachment does not depend on a sealant.
Any sealant has a finite lifespan.  Removing the sealant variable from the
equation results in more lasting installation.)

Sincerely,

 

William Miller

 

 

Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com http://www.millersolar.com/ 
805-438-5600

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 10:34 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flash

 

My opinion is that if the L foot has enough surface area it constitutes a
flashing, and that large flashings can actually cause more damage to the
roof than they prevent.
I also agree that an attachement doesn't constitute a penetration.  I just
finished an install on a metal roof with hundreds of screw holes.  We added
a few more screw holes, and ours have 20 times the sealant surface area.  We
did run a 1 conduit through the roof, and since it was an actual
penetration, we used a very expensive flexible boot flashing.
Personally, I think we need about a 3x3 or 4 x 4 L foot with a double
stick butyl tape on the bottom, and all will be well.
I realize that the OP was referring to asphalt, but I will flash other roof
types that don't do well with L feet ( like shake).

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flash

[jerrysgarage01]

WrenchesWe stay away from anything with a rubber type boot as it will shrink over time in the shade of the array or not. You all night want to look at the sunmodo out of Washington. Have had no leak issues or installation issues, there is no exposed rubber and the flashing is malleable and can be shaped around the roofing materials and does not lift up on the cornersJerrySent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an ATT 4G LTE smartphone Original message From: William Dorsett  Date:08/08/2015  9:51 AM  (GMT-10:00) To: 'RE-wrenches'  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flash I agree with Ray on this, but think the neoprene boot here is so badly separated more likely because the house is settling around it. Still it cracked due to UV and would have failed anyway.Bill DorsettManhattan, KSFrom: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Wayne IrwinSent: Friday, August 07, 2015 4:20 PMTo: WrenchesSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flashhttp://www.usshingle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/US-Shingle-Roof-Tune-Up.pngWayne Irwin,PresidentLicense #CVC56695 State Licensed Solar ContractorPure Energy Solar International Inc. wa...@pureenergysolar.com http://PureEnergySolar.comhttp://SolarChargingStation.net352 377-6527 Office352 336-3299 FaxThe Sun Is Always Shining!The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2015 17:11:50 -0400From: kjenergysyst...@gmail.comTo: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flashNot that the names of things matter that much but imho "flashing" does require an overlapping of some kind. An Oatey boot for a metal roof is more of a bedded fitting than a flashing. It relies entirely on fasteners and a sealing membrane whereas flashings rely mostly on natural forces like gravity. Perhaps an experienced roofer weigh in on this.Kurt JohnsenOn Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com wrote:"If you place a flat object on top of roofing without an uphill material lapping over the downhill object, you are not flashing. "By that logic, an Oatey boot is not a flashing for a plumbing vent on a metal roof.Just sayin'...Jason SzumlanskiOn Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 2:19 PM, William Miller william.mil...@millersolar.com wrote:Ray:I have to respectfully disagree with your semantics. A flashing is an overlapping of roofing materials such that gravity will direct rain and melt water off of the roof. This is a universally accepted waterproofing method that does not depend on any sealant material. The concept is as ancient as the first, crude, thatched roof.If you place a flat object on top of roofing without an uphill material lapping over the downhill object, you are not flashing. What you have described is sealant-dependent weatherproofing. Regardless of the quality of the sealant, or lack thereof, I don’t think you can call it a flashed attachment.(The overarching point is a flashed attachment does not depend on a sealant. Any sealant has a finite lifespan. Removing the sealant variable from the equation results in more lasting installation.)Sincerely,William MillerLic 773985millersolar.com805-438-5600From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray WaltersSent: Friday, August 07, 2015 10:34 AMTo: RE-wrenchesSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] to flash or not to flashMy opinion is that if the L foot has enough surface area it constitutes a flashing, and that large flashings can actually cause more damage to the roof than they prevent.I also agree that an attachement doesn't constitute a penetration. I just finished an install on a metal roof with hundreds of screw holes. We added a few more screw holes, and ours have 20 times the sealant surface area. We did run a 1" conduit through the roof, and since it was an actual penetration, we used a very expensive flexible boot flashing.Personally, I think we need about a 3"x3" or 4" x 4" L foot with a double stick butyl tape on the bottom, and all will be well.I realize that the OP was referring to asphalt, but I will flash other roof types that don't do well with L feet ( like shake).___List sponsored by Redwood AllianceList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address  settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.htmlList rules  etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org___List sponsored by