Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems

[William Miller]

Howie:



At one time I shared your dream: that if only the manufacturer’s would
build wire management and shielding systems, consumers would flock to buy
them.  I asked DPW to help me develop some wire shielding hardware and
Steve Schumacher was willing to give it a try.  See this link

for some pictures of the system Schu helped us develop.  Unfortunately, I
was one of the few people that ever asked for this product, and there was
no reason for DPW to put any more energy into the idea.



Over time I came to realize that what is hindering the development of
better wire management and wire shielding systems is not the lack of
manufacturers building the systems-- it is due to the lack of demand for
them in the market.  Wire management and shielding systems will add to the
cost of any installation.  If installers can get away without using these
systems, why should they bother?



They get by without them because building officials are all too often
ignorant and lazy.  I have tried and tried to convince the officials in the
county in which I live to read the black and white of the current NEC but
they refuse.  Most of the inspections of my work by building officials last
less than 2 minutes.  When I ask inspectors and plan checkers questions
about codes and practices I usually get quizzical stares.



The engineers at DPW know what the code requires for wire shielding: they
can read and I have highlighted the requirements many times.  DPW was
willing to experiment, but apparently no one asked to buy these systems so
there was no reason to put them in the catalog.



I have had my problems with the DPW painted parts for years.  It is not a
new problem.  Hopefully with the attention they are getting this will be
resolved.  I have also waited way too long for even the most minor parts
orders.  This needs to improve.  How hard can it be to put a few dozen
bolts in a box?  Why should it take almost two weeks?  They need to fix the
paint and get parts and assemblies out the door in a reasonable time.



I must say, however, that DPW has provided a very consistently good range
of products over the years and they have been more responsive than 99% of
the manufacturers out there.  I am still a fan of DPW.



Sincerely,



William Miller





[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Howie Michaelson
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 07, 2015 6:15 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems



Thanks Michael for the communication conduit.

While I appreciate DP's effort to address the issues raised, I don't feel
their response really speaks to the issues - for us, these are long
standing problems, although they appear to possibly be getting worse more
recently.

More importantly, for me this is one of the most valuable aspects of this
list - the power of the group to garner a manufacturer's attention in order
to address a problem (think warranty replacement issues, or equipment
failure rates) or make an improvement.

For instance, if a ground mount racking manufacturer developed a
functional, code compliant wire management system, I would expect to hear
about it first on this list, get highly useful evaluations of the
innovation, and then watch the sales of that system take off due to the
"viral" nature of information shared on this list. If there are any racking
manu reps that still read this list, perhaps they could take the ball and
run with it. One can dream...

Howie

Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Catamount Solar
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
http://www.CatamountSolar.com
802-272-0004

On Oct 7, 2015 7:51 PM, "Michael Welch" 
wrote:

I have had off-list contact with DPW, and I've been asked to post the
following for them. If you have questions about my posting this on their
behalf, contact me off list.

Thanks.

Thank you for alerting us to the problems you recently encountered with the
paint used in our TPMs.  It is our intent to respond to customers' concerns
to maintain your trust and support.  We recently had a problem when a
supplier discontinued a paint we've used since the inception of our TPM
product line.  After testing multiple formulations over the course of
several weeks we were able to source a silver paint comparable to the
original and now have that paint problem resolved.  As to lead time issues
we are working with our distributor partners to move orders more quickly
through their internal processes.  We extend our apologies for the
inconvenience this paint problem has caused.  Please contact me personally
with any questions or concerns.  I may be reached at
schumach...@directpower.com or at 505-889-3585.  Steve Schumacher, DPW

Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems

[Will White]

I second the last paragraph.  Even though we’ve had issues with DP I still 
like their product.

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 3:14 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems

Howie:

At one time I shared your dream: that if only the manufacturer’s would build 
wire management and shielding systems, consumers would flock to buy them.  I 
asked DPW to help me develop some wire shielding hardware and Steve Schumacher 
was willing to give it a try.  See this 
link
 for some pictures of the system Schu helped us develop.  Unfortunately, I was 
one of the few people that ever asked for this product, and there was no reason 
for DPW to put any more energy into the idea.

Over time I came to realize that what is hindering the development of better 
wire management and wire shielding systems is not the lack of manufacturers 
building the systems-- it is due to the lack of demand for them in the market.  
Wire management and shielding systems will add to the cost of any installation. 
 If installers can get away without using these systems, why should they bother?

They get by without them because building officials are all too often ignorant 
and lazy.  I have tried and tried to convince the officials in the county in 
which I live to read the black and white of the current NEC but they refuse.  
Most of the inspections of my work by building officials last less than 2 
minutes.  When I ask inspectors and plan checkers questions about codes and 
practices I usually get quizzical stares.

The engineers at DPW know what the code requires for wire shielding: they can 
read and I have highlighted the requirements many times.  DPW was willing to 
experiment, but apparently no one asked to buy these systems so there was no 
reason to put them in the catalog.

I have had my problems with the DPW painted parts for years.  It is not a new 
problem.  Hopefully with the attention they are getting this will be resolved.  
I have also waited way too long for even the most minor parts orders.  This 
needs to improve.  How hard can it be to put a few dozen bolts in a box?  Why 
should it take almost two weeks?  They need to fix the paint and get parts and 
assemblies out the door in a reasonable time.

I must say, however, that DPW has provided a very consistently good range of 
products over the years and they have been more responsive than 99% of the 
manufacturers out there.  I am still a fan of DPW.

Sincerely,

William Miller


[Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600

From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
 On Behalf Of Howie Michaelson
Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2015 6:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems


Thanks Michael for the communication conduit.

While I appreciate DP's effort to address the issues raised, I don't feel 
their response really speaks to the issues - for us, these are long standing 
problems, although they appear to possibly be getting worse more recently.

More importantly, for me this is one of the most valuable aspects of this list 
- the power of the group to garner a manufacturer's attention in order to 
address a problem (think warranty replacement issues, or equipment failure 
rates) or make an improvement.

For instance, if a ground mount racking manufacturer developed a functional, 
code compliant wire management system, I would expect to hear about it first on 
this list, get highly useful evaluations of the innovation, and then watch the 
sales of that system take off due to the "viral" nature of information shared 
on this list. If there are any racking manu reps that still read this list, 
perhaps they could take the ball and run with it. One can dream...

Howie

Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Catamount Solar
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
http://www.CatamountSolar.com
802-272-0004
On Oct 7, 2015 7:51 PM, "Michael Welch" 
> wrote:
I have had off-list contact with DPW, and I've been asked to post the following 
for them. If you have questions about my posting this on their behalf, contact 
me off list.

Thanks.

Thank you for alerting us to the problems you recently encountered with the 
paint used in our TPMs.  It is our intent to respond to customers' concerns to 
maintain your trust and support.  We recently had a problem when a supplier 
discontinued a paint we've used since the inception of our TPM product line.  
After testing multiple formulations over the course of several weeks we were 
able to source a silver paint 

Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems

[Howie Michaelson]

William,
I have followed your posts over the years and appreciate the efforts you
have made in developing and then your willingness to share them with the
list. Thank you.

If DP had wire management products available, it never reached my radar,
although admittedly I never asked them either. We would definitely consider
passing more for that added value.

I too appreciate the robustness of their TPM product, especially compared
to the old Unirac TPM that we started out with and watched get blown apart
more than once. However, I think we would benefit from a more competitive
market, which would hopefully help drive better product to installers and
thereby customers.

Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Catamount Solar
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
http://www.CatamountSolar.com
802-272-0004
On Oct 8, 2015 3:13 AM, "William Miller"  wrote:

> Howie:
>
>
>
> At one time I shared your dream: that if only the manufacturer’s would
> build wire management and shielding systems, consumers would flock to buy
> them.  I asked DPW to help me develop some wire shielding hardware and
> Steve Schumacher was willing to give it a try.  See this link
> 
> for some pictures of the system Schu helped us develop.  Unfortunately, I
> was one of the few people that ever asked for this product, and there was
> no reason for DPW to put any more energy into the idea.
>
>
>
> Over time I came to realize that what is hindering the development of
> better wire management and wire shielding systems is not the lack of
> manufacturers building the systems-- it is due to the lack of demand for
> them in the market.  Wire management and shielding systems will add to the
> cost of any installation.  If installers can get away without using these
> systems, why should they bother?
>
>
>
> They get by without them because building officials are all too often
> ignorant and lazy.  I have tried and tried to convince the officials in the
> county in which I live to read the black and white of the current NEC but
> they refuse.  Most of the inspections of my work by building officials last
> less than 2 minutes.  When I ask inspectors and plan checkers questions
> about codes and practices I usually get quizzical stares.
>
>
>
> The engineers at DPW know what the code requires for wire shielding: they
> can read and I have highlighted the requirements many times.  DPW was
> willing to experiment, but apparently no one asked to buy these systems so
> there was no reason to put them in the catalog.
>
>
>
> I have had my problems with the DPW painted parts for years.  It is not a
> new problem.  Hopefully with the attention they are getting this will be
> resolved.  I have also waited way too long for even the most minor parts
> orders.  This needs to improve.  How hard can it be to put a few dozen
> bolts in a box?  Why should it take almost two weeks?  They need to fix the
> paint and get parts and assemblies out the door in a reasonable time.
>
>
>
> I must say, however, that DPW has provided a very consistently good range
> of products over the years and they have been more responsive than 99% of
> the manufacturers out there.  I am still a fan of DPW.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Gradient Cap_mini]
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com 
> 805-438-5600
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Howie Michaelson
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 07, 2015 6:15 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems
>
>
>
> Thanks Michael for the communication conduit.
>
> While I appreciate DP's effort to address the issues raised, I don't
> feel their response really speaks to the issues - for us, these are long
> standing problems, although they appear to possibly be getting worse more
> recently.
>
> More importantly, for me this is one of the most valuable aspects of this
> list - the power of the group to garner a manufacturer's attention in order
> to address a problem (think warranty replacement issues, or equipment
> failure rates) or make an improvement.
>
> For instance, if a ground mount racking manufacturer developed a
> functional, code compliant wire management system, I would expect to hear
> about it first on this list, get highly useful evaluations of the
> innovation, and then watch the sales of that system take off due to the
> "viral" nature of information shared on this list. If there are any racking
> manu reps that still read this list, perhaps they could take the ball and
> run with it. One can dream...
>
> Howie
>
> Howie Michaelson
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>
> Catamount Solar
> Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
> VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
> http://www.CatamountSolar.com
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems

[Kirpal Khalsa]

Wrenches.We have used the DPW products, primarily their top of pole
racks for yearswe have well over a hundred of the racks installedWe
love their simplicity, and ease of assemblyWe have never once had a
problem with an installed racknever had a failure of any kindWe
appreciate the fact that they supply extra hardware with each
shipment.Inevitably we drop parts and a few extras are always
appreciated.
For us it is the details...We get comfortable installing something we have
done many many timeswe are able to predict our pace and therefore we
can give our customers accurate bids which leave us not over bidding or
under biddingChanges are  sometimes necessary and a result of
innovation or improvementsIts the communication which sometimes
lagsknowledge is powerWhen we know we are going to be dealing with
some change it is easier for us to predict and anticipate changes to our
habitsand therefore planning as wellpredictability is our friend!!!
Our recent experiences have left us a bit disgruntledwhile the quality
of the installed DPW racks has not changed or degraded we have been left
with carrying the extra burden of some of the changesI am glad to ehar
the new paint is going to be new again...Hopefully it will not have the
same issues with regards to the packaging sticking to the wet(ish) paint
and leaving us with a headache of trying to figure out how to clean off
imprints of paper, styrafoam and shrink wrap off of the strong back

DPW has been a great partner over the yearsGrowing pains affect us
allSometimes they are more noticable than others
Communication is key!!!  I will likely continue to use their top of pole
racks, as I haven't found any better options
I value the effect this list has on maintaining the pressure on
manufacturers to be responsive to us installers who are on the front lines
of making their products fit into the market placeWe all have our areas
of expertiseand each step is important.I for one am not interested
in becoming a racking manufacturer!!!
Cheers

Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Oregon Solarworks LLC
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-218-0201 m
541-299-0402 o

On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Howie Michaelson 
wrote:

> William,
> I have followed your posts over the years and appreciate the efforts you
> have made in developing and then your willingness to share them with the
> list. Thank you.
>
> If DP had wire management products available, it never reached my radar,
> although admittedly I never asked them either. We would definitely consider
> passing more for that added value.
>
> I too appreciate the robustness of their TPM product, especially compared
> to the old Unirac TPM that we started out with and watched get blown apart
> more than once. However, I think we would benefit from a more competitive
> market, which would hopefully help drive better product to installers and
> thereby customers.
>
> Howie Michaelson
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
>
> Catamount Solar
> Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
> VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
> http://www.CatamountSolar.com
> 802-272-0004
> On Oct 8, 2015 3:13 AM, "William Miller"  wrote:
>
>> Howie:
>>
>>
>>
>> At one time I shared your dream: that if only the manufacturer’s would
>> build wire management and shielding systems, consumers would flock to buy
>> them.  I asked DPW to help me develop some wire shielding hardware and
>> Steve Schumacher was willing to give it a try.  See this link
>> 
>> for some pictures of the system Schu helped us develop.  Unfortunately, I
>> was one of the few people that ever asked for this product, and there was
>> no reason for DPW to put any more energy into the idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> Over time I came to realize that what is hindering the development of
>> better wire management and wire shielding systems is not the lack of
>> manufacturers building the systems-- it is due to the lack of demand for
>> them in the market.  Wire management and shielding systems will add to the
>> cost of any installation.  If installers can get away without using these
>> systems, why should they bother?
>>
>>
>>
>> They get by without them because building officials are all too often
>> ignorant and lazy.  I have tried and tried to convince the officials in the
>> county in which I live to read the black and white of the current NEC but
>> they refuse.  Most of the inspections of my work by building officials last
>> less than 2 minutes.  When I ask inspectors and plan checkers questions
>> about codes and practices I usually get quizzical stares.
>>
>>
>>
>> The engineers at DPW know what the code requires for wire shielding: they
>> can read and I have highlighted the requirements many times.  

[RE-wrenches] A happy DPW installer

[frenergy]

I started an email yesterday but was pulled away...  Kirpal couldn't 
have nailed my response to the grumblings about DPW much better.  Its not like 
we haven't any problems with their racks, but in the big picture and knowing 
from personal experience the challenges of running a manufacturing biz, I will 
continue to install DPW racks.  Significant problems are very rare and have 
been promptly dealt with, small problems are just that, small.

BTW, they do have a variety of wire management products on  Pgs 23, 24 
of the Power Rail catalogue/pricing pdf...not TPM related so much but 
something.  Many of our TPM installs already are leaving more room from the 
lower edge to the ground for shedding snow so the issue of 4 year olds (or 
anybody for that matter) tugging on wires has become less of an issue as those 
wires are at an inaccessible height.

I too wish to say thanks to DPM.

Bill
Feather River Solar Electric


  - Original Message - 
  From: Kirpal Khalsa 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Thursday, October 08, 2015 7:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] DPW Rack Problems


  Wrenches.We have used the DPW products, primarily their top of pole racks 
for yearswe have well over a hundred of the racks installedWe love 
their simplicity, and ease of assemblyWe have never once had a problem with 
an installed racknever had a failure of any kindWe appreciate the fact 
that they supply extra hardware with each shipment.Inevitably we drop parts 
and a few extras are always appreciated.
  For us it is the details...We get comfortable installing something we have 
done many many timeswe are able to predict our pace and therefore we can 
give our customers accurate bids which leave us not over bidding or under 
biddingChanges are  sometimes necessary and a result of innovation or 
improvementsIts the communication which sometimes lagsknowledge is 
powerWhen we know we are going to be dealing with some change it is easier 
for us to predict and anticipate changes to our habitsand therefore 
planning as wellpredictability is our friend!!!
  Our recent experiences have left us a bit disgruntledwhile the quality of 
the installed DPW racks has not changed or degraded we have been left with 
carrying the extra burden of some of the changesI am glad to ehar the new 
paint is going to be new again...Hopefully it will not have the same issues 
with regards to the packaging sticking to the wet(ish) paint and leaving us 
with a headache of trying to figure out how to clean off imprints of paper, 
styrafoam and shrink wrap off of the strong back


  DPW has been a great partner over the yearsGrowing pains affect us 
allSometimes they are more noticable than others
  Communication is key!!!  I will likely continue to use their top of pole 
racks, as I haven't found any better options
  I value the effect this list has on maintaining the pressure on manufacturers 
to be responsive to us installers who are on the front lines of making their 
products fit into the market placeWe all have our areas of expertiseand 
each step is important.I for one am not interested in becoming a racking 
manufacturer!!!
  Cheers


  Sunny Regards,
  Kirpal Khalsa
  NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
  Oregon Solarworks LLC
  www.oregonsolarworks.com
  541-218-0201 m
  541-299-0402 o


  On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 7:03 AM, Howie Michaelson  
wrote:

William,
I have followed your posts over the years and appreciate the efforts you 
have made in developing and then your willingness to share them with the list. 
Thank you.

If DP had wire management products available, it never reached my radar, 
although admittedly I never asked them either. We would definitely consider 
passing more for that added value.

I too appreciate the robustness of their TPM product, especially compared 
to the old Unirac TPM that we started out with and watched get blown apart more 
than once. However, I think we would benefit from a more competitive market, 
which would hopefully help drive better product to installers and thereby 
customers.


Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Catamount Solar
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
http://www.CatamountSolar.com
802-272-0004

On Oct 8, 2015 3:13 AM, "William Miller"  wrote:

  Howie:



  At one time I shared your dream: that if only the manufacturer’s would 
build wire management and shielding systems, consumers would flock to buy them. 
 I asked DPW to help me develop some wire shielding hardware and Steve 
Schumacher was willing to give it a try.  See this link for some pictures of 
the system Schu helped us develop.  Unfortunately, I was one of the few people 
that ever asked for this product, and there was no reason