Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery recommendation WAS: Rolls batteries

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
I have a related question, please. One of my longtime off grid
clients is a single woman who maintains a nonprofit sanctuary for
about 30 rescue dogs, both adoptable and not adoptable (curious?
www.bridgingtheworlds.org). With that many animals, Beverly seldom
leaves her remote land and her support and sustenance comes
primarily from donations. Her existing system is a 18-year-old
SW4024/Solar Boost SB50, with 800W of old array and eight L16s. 

The L16s were takeouts from another job that I figured had some life
left (used for two years in another contractor's Sunny Island GTBB
system without telling the customer that he needed to add water
regularly). I gave them to her at no cost and they lasted three
years but are now dying fast.

At my suggestion she has been running a GoFundMe campaign that has
raised $2900. I have already told her that I'll do the swapout at no
charge. I told her that the choice of her next set of batteries
would depend on the money she raised: we have another 24V set of
820A/hr Rolls that I think has some life left, or we can afford 8
L16s, or with the most generous donation total I'll order a set of
HUPs and they'll last her the rest of her life (or maybe not - she's
healthy, beautiful and independent at 71 years). 

So, my question: At $3,000 and 24V, what would you sell her? This is
bound to bring varied opinions, but I want to look beyond what I
would select based on price and get other Wrenches' suggestions.
I'll add that while the array is small and old, she lives well on
very little energy, and has a TriMetric and a backup generator. 

Thank you for your opinions.
Allan


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Allan Sindelar
  al...@sindelarsolar.com
  NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive
  Energy,
  Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


 
  

On 10/22/2015 11:50 AM,
  penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote:


  As with Tump, we have been using the KS series for over 20 years with
little issue. My own particular caveat is that we have now started to use
Crown as well and are finding them as rugged, easier to move (metal cases
with handles), with built in water miser caps, and a better warranty, and
with great success. I also echo Tumps sentiments with Roy at RAE. We have
been buying from him since our inception in 1988.

Daryl




  
The 5000 series are what we always recommend and install for my off grid
clients. 2 volt cells are the only way we go. Despite what folks believe,
we find it easier to handle the KS series then the L16.
We have been using them for many years and as with ANY manu, they have and
had issues BUT.. we feel w/ proper system sizing, education of the
client & record keeping we have yet to have an issue w/ warrantee claims.
That being said we have had a long relationship W/Jamie Surrette and his
supplier, Roy Early and his crew at RAE Battery,  one of the best
suppliers in our 27+ years.
On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:



  Hi Wrenches,

Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the
extra $$$?

Thanks for the feedback,
Kris

--
Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
864 Clam Falls Trail
Frederic, WI 54837
www.legacysolar.com
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE
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Solarwinds Northernlights
   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
 207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[penobscotsolar]

As with Tump, we have been using the KS series for over 20 years with
little issue. My own particular caveat is that we have now started to use
Crown as well and are finding them as rugged, easier to move (metal cases
with handles), with built in water miser caps, and a better warranty, and
with great success. I also echo Tumps sentiments with Roy at RAE. We have
been buying from him since our inception in 1988.

Daryl



> The 5000 series are what we always recommend and install for my off grid
> clients. 2 volt cells are the only way we go. Despite what folks believe,
> we find it easier to handle the KS series then the L16.
> We have been using them for many years and as with ANY manu, they have and
> had issues BUT.. we feel w/ proper system sizing, education of the
> client & record keeping we have yet to have an issue w/ warrantee claims.
> That being said we have had a long relationship W/Jamie Surrette and his
> supplier, Roy Early and his crew at RAE Battery,  one of the best
> suppliers in our 27+ years.
> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:
>
>> Hi Wrenches,
>>
>> Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the
>> extra $$$?
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback,
>> Kris
>>
>> --
>> Shine On!
>>
>> Kris Schmid
>> Legacy Solar, LLC
>> 864 Clam Falls Trail
>> Frederic, WI 54837
>> www.legacysolar.com
>> 715-653-4295
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
>> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
>> BSEE
>> ___
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>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
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>
>> t...@swnl.net   www.SWNL.net
>> Solarwinds Northernlights
>>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401
>>   Blair "TUMP" May
>>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer"
>>
>>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
>>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery recommendation WAS: Rolls batteries

[jerrysgarage01]

I have done stuff like this in the past, I would suggest talking to your local 
battery distributors and explain what you are doing they may be able to go to 
bat with there manufactures for you.
Good luck 
Jerry


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message From: Allan Sindelar 
 Date:10/22/2015  8:19 AM  (GMT-10:00) 
To: RE-wrenches  
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery recommendation WAS: Rolls 
batteries 
I have a related question, please. One of my longtime off grid clients is 
a single woman who maintains a nonprofit sanctuary for about 30 rescue dogs, 
both adoptable and not adoptable (curious? www.bridgingtheworlds.org). With 
that many animals, Beverly seldom leaves her remote land and her support 
and sustenance comes primarily from donations. Her existing system is a 
18-year-old SW4024/Solar Boost SB50, with 800W of old array and eight L16s. 

The L16s were takeouts from another job that I figured had some life left (used 
for two years in another contractor's Sunny Island GTBB system without telling 
the customer that he needed to add water regularly). I gave them to her at no 
cost and they lasted three years but are now dying fast.

At my suggestion she has been running a GoFundMe campaign that has raised 
$2900. I have already told her that I'll do the swapout at no charge. I told 
her that the choice of her next set of batteries would depend on the money she 
raised: we have another 24V set of 820A/hr Rolls that I think has some life 
left, or we can afford 8 L16s, or with the most generous donation total I'll 
order a set of HUPs and they'll last her the rest of her life (or maybe not 
- she's healthy, beautiful and independent at 71 years). 

So, my question: At $3,000 and 24V, what would you sell her? This is bound to 
bring varied opinions, but I want to look beyond what I would select based on 
price and get other Wrenches' suggestions. I'll add that while the array is 
small and old, she lives well on very little energy, and has a TriMetric and a 
backup generator. 

Thank you for your opinions.
Allan

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell

 
On 10/22/2015 11:50 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote:
As with Tump, we have been using the KS series for over 20 years with
little issue. My own particular caveat is that we have now started to use
Crown as well and are finding them as rugged, easier to move (metal cases
with handles), with built in water miser caps, and a better warranty, and
with great success. I also echo Tumps sentiments with Roy at RAE. We have
been buying from him since our inception in 1988.

Daryl



The 5000 series are what we always recommend and install for my off grid
clients. 2 volt cells are the only way we go. Despite what folks believe,
we find it easier to handle the KS series then the L16.
We have been using them for many years and as with ANY manu, they have and
had issues BUT.. we feel w/ proper system sizing, education of the
client & record keeping we have yet to have an issue w/ warrantee claims.
That being said we have had a long relationship W/Jamie Surrette and his
supplier, Roy Early and his crew at RAE Battery,  one of the best
suppliers in our 27+ years.
On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:

Hi Wrenches,

Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the
extra $$$?

Thanks for the feedback,
Kris

--
Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
864 Clam Falls Trail
Frederic, WI 54837
www.legacysolar.com
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE
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t...@swnl.net   www.SWNL.net
Solarwinds Northernlights
   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
 207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401
  Blair "TUMP" May
     MAINE'S CHARTER 
  NABCEP"Certified PV Installer"

    MAINE'S CHARTER 
  Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[jay]

As a west coast guy I use Trojan IND when I get a chance to sell industrial 
batteries.  They are made here in cali which makes warranty ( none to date) and 
delivery faster/easier.  

As to Rolls.  In the past warranty was a complete cluster #@% which is why I 
haven’t used them. Now its much better, and Steve H is doing a good job.

jay

peltz power


> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:06 AM, Tump  wrote:
> 
> The 5000 series are what we always recommend and install for my off grid 
> clients. 2 volt cells are the only way we go. Despite what folks believe, we 
> find it easier to handle the KS series then the L16.
> We have been using them for many years and as with ANY manu, they have and 
> had issues BUT.. we feel w/ proper system sizing, education of the client 
> & record keeping we have yet to have an issue w/ warrantee claims. That being 
> said we have had a long relationship W/Jamie Surrette and his supplier, Roy 
> Early and his crew at RAE Battery,  one of the best suppliers in our 27+ 
> years.
> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:
> 
>> Hi Wrenches,
>> 
>> Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the extra 
>> $$$?
>> 
>> Thanks for the feedback,
>> Kris
>> 
>> -- 
>> Shine On!
>> 
>> Kris Schmid
>> Legacy Solar, LLC
>> 864 Clam Falls Trail
>> Frederic, WI 54837
>> www.legacysolar.com 
>> 715-653-4295
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
>> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
>> BSEE
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Can anyone identify this mounting system and module

[Nick Soleil]

That is the Andalay/Westinghouse Solar system.  They can be reached at:
http://www.andalaysolar.com/

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Carl Adams  wrote:

> I have not been onsite but was sent some photos.  This system needs
> removed for reroofing.  I am not familiar which this mounting
> hardware/module.  Pictures attached.
>
> Thanks
> Carl Adams
> SunRock Solar
>
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Cordially,

Nick Soleil
*Enphase Energy* | Field Applications Engineer

office 707-763-4784 <%28707%29%20763.%204784> x7267
cell 07-321-2937



*Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System

  
  


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California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315

Texas Master Electrician #284451



“Don’t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It’s just that I prefer fusion
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[frenergy]

I have a 48 V pack of 2KS33P's  and have installed many of their batts for my 
customers.  You kind of need to qualify which series of batteries (4000, 
4500,5000) of theirs you are asking about.  If you're trying to do more than 
~1000 ahrs and need to avoid more than 2 strings, you'll be looking at their 
5000 series batteries.  The 5000's have a better warranty, cost more. last 
longer, though they seem to drop in voltage, under load a bit more than say 3 
strings of L-16s of the same capacity (comments welcome)...this can be an issue 
in some applications.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric

  - Original Message - 
  From: Kristopher Schmid 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 8:15 AM
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries


  Hi Wrenches,


  Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the extra $$$?


  Thanks for the feedback,

  Kris


  -- 

  Shine On!

  Kris Schmid
  Legacy Solar, LLC
  864 Clam Falls Trail
  Frederic, WI 54837
  www.legacysolar.com
  715-653-4295
  NABCEP Certified PV Installer
  Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
  BSEE


--


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[Kirk]

Actually I've had more early failures with their 2 volt S-series cells then the 
T12-250. But I now loath series-parallel strings, so I still put up with the 
rare 2 volt failure. 

Kirk Herander
VSE
Sent from a job site somewhere 

> On Oct 22, 2015, at 12:39 PM, Howie Michaelson  wrote:
> 
> As a caveat, I would add that we do not use their T12250 batteries. For some 
> reason, they have not been nearly as reliable as any of their other batteries 
> we have used.
> Howie
> 
> Howie Michaelson
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> 
> Catamount Solar
> Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
> VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
> http://www.CatamountSolar.com
> 802-272-0004
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2015 11:15 AM, "Kristopher Schmid"  wrote:
>> Hi Wrenches,
>> 
>> Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the extra 
>> $$$?
>> 
>> Thanks for the feedback,
>> Kris
>> 
>> -- 
>> Shine On!
>> 
>> Kris Schmid
>> Legacy Solar, LLC
>> 864 Clam Falls Trail
>> Frederic, WI 54837
>> www.legacysolar.com
>> 715-653-4295
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
>> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
>> BSEE
>> 
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[RE-wrenches] Battery recommendation WAS: Rolls batteries

[jay]

Hi Allan,

A few questions.

how little energy?  amp hrs night/avg.
and
is mx something this person does or would like to do without?

But given what you’ve said, I wouldn’t go with wet cell industrial as you’ll 
never get the C rate you need.  If the  8 x L-16’s have done her well ( and 
probably the battery box is set up for that form factor) and with your budget 
I’d go with another set of  L-16’s flooded or sealed if the budget/want allows. 

And if the need is really quite small, I”d consider golf cart.  Yea yea,I hear 
all the laughs, but where I live, golf carts seem to have the life they always 
have, but L-16’s ( all brands) seem to have a shorter and shorter life for 
reasons I don’t understand. 


jay

peltz power




> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:19 AM, Allan Sindelar  wrote:
> 
> I have a related question, please. One of my longtime off grid clients is a 
> single woman who maintains a nonprofit sanctuary for about 30 rescue dogs, 
> both adoptable and not adoptable (curious? www.bridgingtheworlds.org 
> ). With that many animals, Beverly seldom 
> leaves her remote land and her support and sustenance comes primarily from 
> donations. Her existing system is a 18-year-old SW4024/Solar Boost SB50, with 
> 800W of old array and eight L16s. 
> 
> The L16s were takeouts from another job that I figured had some life left 
> (used for two years in another contractor's Sunny Island GTBB system without 
> telling the customer that he needed to add water regularly). I gave them to 
> her at no cost and they lasted three years but are now dying fast.
> 
> At my suggestion she has been running a GoFundMe campaign that has raised 
> $2900. I have already told her that I'll do the swapout at no charge. I told 
> her that the choice of her next set of batteries would depend on the money 
> she raised: we have another 24V set of 820A/hr Rolls that I think has some 
> life left, or we can afford 8 L16s, or with the most generous donation total 
> I'll order a set of HUPs and they'll last her the rest of her life (or maybe 
> not - she's healthy, beautiful and independent at 71 years). 
> 
> So, my question: At $3,000 and 24V, what would you sell her? This is bound to 
> bring varied opinions, but I want to look beyond what I would select based on 
> price and get other Wrenches' suggestions. I'll add that while the array is 
> small and old, she lives well on very little energy, and has a TriMetric and 
> a backup generator. 
> 
> Thank you for your opinions.
> Allan
> 
> Allan Sindelar
>  al...@sindelarsolar.com 
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> 505 780-2738 cell
> 
>  
> On 10/22/2015 11:50 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com 
>  wrote:
>> As with Tump, we have been using the KS series for over 20 years with
>> little issue. My own particular caveat is that we have now started to use
>> Crown as well and are finding them as rugged, easier to move (metal cases
>> with handles), with built in water miser caps, and a better warranty, and
>> with great success. I also echo Tumps sentiments with Roy at RAE. We have
>> been buying from him since our inception in 1988.
>> 
>> Daryl
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> The 5000 series are what we always recommend and install for my off grid
>>> clients. 2 volt cells are the only way we go. Despite what folks believe,
>>> we find it easier to handle the KS series then the L16.
>>> We have been using them for many years and as with ANY manu, they have and
>>> had issues BUT.. we feel w/ proper system sizing, education of the
>>> client & record keeping we have yet to have an issue w/ warrantee claims.
>>> That being said we have had a long relationship W/Jamie Surrette and his
>>> supplier, Roy Early and his crew at RAE Battery,  one of the best
>>> suppliers in our 27+ years.
>>> On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Wrenches,
 
 Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the
 extra $$$?
 
 Thanks for the feedback,
 Kris
 
 --
 Shine On!
 
 Kris Schmid
 Legacy Solar, LLC
 864 Clam Falls Trail
 Frederic, WI 54837
 www.legacysolar.com 
 715-653-4295
 NABCEP Certified PV Installer
 Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
 BSEE
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery recommendation WAS: Rolls batteries

[Dave]

Jay,

 

I second your thumbs up for golf cart batteries for their value to budget
wise off-gridders. I sell a lot of Trojan T-105's (selling more of the RE
models the last few years) to do-it-yourselfers with small systems. I have
not seen problems with two, and up to three strings of these in 24v systems.
Many of my customers can't afford the more expensive batteries and they have
been getting 8 to 12 years of service from T-105's. 

 

David Palumbo 

Independent Power LLC

462 Solar Way Drive

Hyde Park, VT 05655

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of jay
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 6:40 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery recommendation WAS: Rolls batteries

 

Hi Allan,

 

A few questions.

 

how little energy?  amp hrs night/avg.

and

is mx something this person does or would like to do without?

 

But given what you've said, I wouldn't go with wet cell industrial as you'll
never get the C rate you need.  If the  8 x L-16's have done her well ( and
probably the battery box is set up for that form factor) and with your
budget I'd go with another set of  L-16's flooded or sealed if the
budget/want allows. 

 

And if the need is really quite small, I"d consider golf cart.  Yea yea,I
hear all the laughs, but where I live, golf carts seem to have the life they
always have, but L-16's ( all brands) seem to have a shorter and shorter
life for reasons I don't understand. 

 

 

jay

 

peltz power

 

 

 

 

On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:19 AM, Allan Sindelar 
wrote:

 

I have a related question, please. One of my longtime off grid clients is a
single woman who maintains a nonprofit sanctuary for about 30 rescue dogs,
both adoptable and not adoptable (curious?
 www.bridgingtheworlds.org). With that
many animals, Beverly seldom leaves her remote land and her support and
sustenance comes primarily from donations. Her existing system is a
18-year-old SW4024/Solar Boost SB50, with 800W of old array and eight L16s. 

The L16s were takeouts from another job that I figured had some life left
(used for two years in another contractor's Sunny Island GTBB system without
telling the customer that he needed to add water regularly). I gave them to
her at no cost and they lasted three years but are now dying fast.

At my suggestion she has been running a GoFundMe campaign that has raised
$2900. I have already told her that I'll do the swapout at no charge. I told
her that the choice of her next set of batteries would depend on the money
she raised: we have another 24V set of 820A/hr Rolls that I think has some
life left, or we can afford 8 L16s, or with the most generous donation total
I'll order a set of HUPs and they'll last her the rest of her life (or maybe
not - she's healthy, beautiful and independent at 71 years). 

So, my question: At $3,000 and 24V, what would you sell her? This is bound
to bring varied opinions, but I want to look beyond what I would select
based on price and get other Wrenches' suggestions. I'll add that while the
array is small and old, she lives well on very little energy, and has a
TriMetric and a backup generator. 

Thank you for your opinions.
Allan



Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell




 

On 10/22/2015 11:50 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote:

As with Tump, we have been using the KS series for over 20 years with
little issue. My own particular caveat is that we have now started to use
Crown as well and are finding them as rugged, easier to move (metal cases
with handles), with built in water miser caps, and a better warranty, and
with great success. I also echo Tumps sentiments with Roy at RAE. We have
been buying from him since our inception in 1988.
 
Daryl
 
 
 

The 5000 series are what we always recommend and install for my off grid
clients. 2 volt cells are the only way we go. Despite what folks believe,
we find it easier to handle the KS series then the L16.
We have been using them for many years and as with ANY manu, they have and
had issues BUT.. we feel w/ proper system sizing, education of the
client & record keeping we have yet to have an issue w/ warrantee claims.
That being said we have had a long relationship W/Jamie Surrette and his
supplier, Roy Early and his crew at RAE Battery,  one of the best
suppliers in our 27+ years.
On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:
 

Hi Wrenches,
 
Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the
extra $$$?
 
Thanks for the feedback,
Kris
 
--
Shine On!
 
Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
864 Clam Falls Trail
Frederic, WI 54837
www.legacysolar.com  
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE

Re: [RE-wrenches] Can anyone identify this mounting system and module

[Carl Adams]

Thanks for the responses.

On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 12:27 PM, Nick Soleil 
wrote:

> That is the Andalay/Westinghouse Solar system.  They can be reached at:
> http://www.andalaysolar.com/
>
> On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Carl Adams  wrote:
>
>> I have not been onsite but was sent some photos.  This system needs
>> removed for reroofing.  I am not familiar which this mounting
>> hardware/module.  Pictures attached.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Carl Adams
>> SunRock Solar
>>
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>
> --
>
> Cordially,
>
> Nick Soleil
> *Enphase Energy* | Field Applications Engineer
>
> office 707-763-4784 <%28707%29%20763.%204784> x7267
> cell 07-321-2937
>
> 
>
> *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System
> 
>   
>   
> 
>
>
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
>
> California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315
>
> Texas Master Electrician #284451
>
> 
>
> “Don’t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It’s just that I prefer fusion
> to fission. And it just so happens that there’s an enormous fusion reactor
> safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
> ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it’s wireless!”
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[RE-wrenches] Current limiting fuse at battery bank

[Tom Ruscitti]

On battery based systems I always install a Class T fuse as close to the 
battery bank as possible. 690.71(C) is a little vague in requiring a 
current limiting fuse only where the available short-circuit current 
from the battery bank exceeds the interrupting ratings of the inverter 
breaker. Inverter breakers vary in their interrupting ratings and 
battery banks are big current sources when things go wrong, so it's just 
a sensible best practice. My question is about service work on systems 
we didn't install. We're quoting the second job this year for battery 
replacement where there is no current limiting fuse installed. It's 
always a tough question to judge what extra work might be required when 
you touch another contractor's system, but does anyone have an opinion 
about recommending or requiring the installation of a fuse at the 
battery box as part of the battery replacement?


Thanks,

- Tom

--
Tom Ruscitti
Senior Engineer

Taitem Engineering, PC
110 S. Albany Street, Ithaca, NY 14850
Mobile: (607) 220-7022
www.taitem.com

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[RE-wrenches] Mage Solar US Support contact

[Carl Adams]

Hello Fellow wrenches,

I have a couple of failed Mage solar AC modules.  These are Mage Solar
panels with an integrated Solardridge inverter.  Anyone have a good contact
number for Mage Solar US Support, or do I need to call Germany?

Thanks
Carl Adams
SunRock Solar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Current limiting fuse at battery bank

[Allan Sindelar]

Tom,
Agree with Ray here. But more than that, if you consider a class T fuse good 
practice, include it. But do no more than offer it when you work on others' 
systems. The homeowner usually won't see the value in the same way that you do, 
it won't affect the system 's performance unless there's a catastrophic 
failure, and you risk being seen as someone they don't know trying to pad a 
sale with added bells and whistles. 

I haven't checked in recent years, but the original Heinemann GJ breakers in 
175 and 250A ratings had 10,000A AIC, which is difficult to achieve with normal 
cable and terminal resistances. Yes, the class T fuse in a Boltswitch pull-out 
disconnect offers better AIC protection than a CB, but the industry went the CB 
route about 15 years ago. 

> On Oct 22, 2015, at 6:46 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:
> 
> I agree installing a fuse at the battery bank is a good idea. However 
> actually doing it right is tough.  Putting the  class T fuse and holder in a 
> battery enclosure with flooded cells is going to cause more trouble than it 
> solves.  I've seen class T fuses oozing green goo out the ends, and the fuse 
> holder contacts get corroded to the point that they are causing significant 
> volt drop.
> If it is installed outside, then you need an enclosure.  Then there is the 
> requirement that fuses be serviceable, requiring disconnects on both sides.  
> The Boltswitch pullout system solves that problem, but then you have to 
> custom fabricate an enclosure for the Boltswitch disconnect.
> End of story, is we aren't usually ever installing that fuse at the battery.  
>  Instead we keep the distance from the DC Load center to the battery as close 
> as possible.  The number one danger is a wrench falling across the battery 
> terminals, and neither the breaker or a class T fuse at the main terminal is 
> going to stop that.  We would need fusing at each exposed positive terminal 
> of each battery to truly protect against short circuits.
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> 
>> On 10/22/2015 7:26 PM, Tom Ruscitti wrote:
>> On battery based systems I always install a Class T fuse as close to the 
>> battery bank as possible. 690.71(C) is a little vague in requiring a current 
>> limiting fuse only where the available short-circuit current from the 
>> battery bank exceeds the interrupting ratings of the inverter breaker. 
>> Inverter breakers vary in their interrupting ratings and battery banks are 
>> big current sources when things go wrong, so it's just a sensible best 
>> practice. My question is about service work on systems we didn't install. 
>> We're quoting the second job this year for battery replacement where there 
>> is no current limiting fuse installed. It's always a tough question to judge 
>> what extra work might be required when you touch another contractor's 
>> system, but does anyone have an opinion about recommending or requiring the 
>> installation of a fuse at the battery box as part of the battery replacement?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> - Tom
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Current limiting fuse at battery bank

[Ray Walters]

I agree installing a fuse at the battery bank is a good idea. However 
actually doing it right is tough.  Putting the  class T fuse and holder 
in a battery enclosure with flooded cells is going to cause more trouble 
than it solves.  I've seen class T fuses oozing green goo out the ends, 
and the fuse holder contacts get corroded to the point that they are 
causing significant volt drop.
If it is installed outside, then you need an enclosure.  Then there is 
the requirement that fuses be serviceable, requiring disconnects on both 
sides.  The Boltswitch pullout system solves that problem, but then you 
have to custom fabricate an enclosure for the Boltswitch disconnect.
End of story, is we aren't usually ever installing that fuse at the 
battery.   Instead we keep the distance from the DC Load center to the 
battery as close as possible.  The number one danger is a wrench falling 
across the battery terminals, and neither the breaker or a class T fuse 
at the main terminal is going to stop that.  We would need fusing at 
each exposed positive terminal of each battery to truly protect against 
short circuits.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 10/22/2015 7:26 PM, Tom Ruscitti wrote:
On battery based systems I always install a Class T fuse as close to 
the battery bank as possible. 690.71(C) is a little vague in requiring 
a current limiting fuse only where the available short-circuit current 
from the battery bank exceeds the interrupting ratings of the inverter 
breaker. Inverter breakers vary in their interrupting ratings and 
battery banks are big current sources when things go wrong, so it's 
just a sensible best practice. My question is about service work on 
systems we didn't install. We're quoting the second job this year for 
battery replacement where there is no current limiting fuse installed. 
It's always a tough question to judge what extra work might be 
required when you touch another contractor's system, but does anyone 
have an opinion about recommending or requiring the installation of a 
fuse at the battery box as part of the battery replacement?


Thanks,

- Tom



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Current limiting fuse at battery bank

[Jerry Shafer]

I agree, fuse it

Jerry
On Oct 22, 2015 3:26 PM, "Tom Ruscitti"  wrote:

> On battery based systems I always install a Class T fuse as close to the
> battery bank as possible. 690.71(C) is a little vague in requiring a
> current limiting fuse only where the available short-circuit current from
> the battery bank exceeds the interrupting ratings of the inverter breaker.
> Inverter breakers vary in their interrupting ratings and battery banks are
> big current sources when things go wrong, so it's just a sensible best
> practice. My question is about service work on systems we didn't install.
> We're quoting the second job this year for battery replacement where there
> is no current limiting fuse installed. It's always a tough question to
> judge what extra work might be required when you touch another contractor's
> system, but does anyone have an opinion about recommending or requiring the
> installation of a fuse at the battery box as part of the battery
> replacement?
>
> Thanks,
>
> - Tom
>
> --
> Tom Ruscitti
> Senior Engineer
>
> Taitem Engineering, PC
> 110 S. Albany Street, Ithaca, NY 14850
> Mobile: (607) 220-7022
> www.taitem.com
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[Christopher Warfel]

They have been reliable. I think they are worth it.

Chris

On 10/22/2015 11:15 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:

Hi Wrenches,

Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them? Worth the 
extra $$$?


Thanks for the feedback,
Kris

--
Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
864 Clam Falls Trail
Frederic, WI 54837
www.legacysolar.com 
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE


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--
Christopher Warfel, President
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
401-466-8978

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[toddcory]

i have a set of their fc420's flooded, lead calcium... which is (imo) the 
perfect battery for grid tie with battery backup. i add water every other year, 
and equalize every 6 months. these are from 2008 and still going strong.
 
another system i have has a 1986 vintage set (made by "globe battery") and they 
are still working fine too, so maybe this is more about the specific battery 
chemistry than manufacturer?
 
todd
 
 
 


On Thursday, October 22, 2015 8:15am, "Kristopher Schmid" 
 said:






Hi Wrenches,

Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the extra $$$?

Thanks for the feedback,Kris





-- 


Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
864 Clam Falls Trail
Frederic, WI 54837
[ www.legacysolar.com ]( http://www.legacysolar.com/ )
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE


Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Can anyone identify this mounting system and module

[Garrison Riegel]

It looks like the Westinghouse AC module system.  Pretty sure these are no 
longer available.  

 

Garrison Riegel

PV Operations Manager |   Solar Service Inc

[p] 847-677-0950 |   
garri...@solarserviceinc.com

 

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Carl Adams
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2015 9:59 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Can anyone identify this mounting system and module

 

I have not been onsite but was sent some photos.  This system needs removed for 
reroofing.  I am not familiar which this mounting hardware/module.  Pictures 
attached.

 

Thanks

Carl Adams

SunRock Solar

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[RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[Kristopher Schmid]

Hi Wrenches,

Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the extra
$$$?

Thanks for the feedback,
Kris

-- 
Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
864 Clam Falls Trail
Frederic, WI 54837
www.legacysolar.com
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[Howie Michaelson]

As a caveat, I would add that we do not use their T12250 batteries. For
some reason, they have not been nearly as reliable as any of their other
batteries we have used.
Howie

Howie Michaelson
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Catamount Solar
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
http://www.CatamountSolar.com
802-272-0004
On Oct 22, 2015 11:15 AM, "Kristopher Schmid" 
wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the extra
> $$$?
>
> Thanks for the feedback,
> Kris
>
> --
> Shine On!
>
> Kris Schmid
> Legacy Solar, LLC
> 864 Clam Falls Trail
> Frederic, WI 54837
> www.legacysolar.com
> 715-653-4295
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
> BSEE
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[Jerry Shafer]

Yes i have and i have been happy performance vs cost
Jerry
On Oct 22, 2015 5:15 AM, "Kristopher Schmid"  wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the extra
> $$$?
>
> Thanks for the feedback,
> Kris
>
> --
> Shine On!
>
> Kris Schmid
> Legacy Solar, LLC
> 864 Clam Falls Trail
> Frederic, WI 54837
> www.legacysolar.com
> 715-653-4295
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
> BSEE
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Rolls batteries

[Tump]

The 5000 series are what we always recommend and install for my off grid 
clients. 2 volt cells are the only way we go. Despite what folks believe, we 
find it easier to handle the KS series then the L16.
We have been using them for many years and as with ANY manu, they have and had 
issues BUT.. we feel w/ proper system sizing, education of the client & 
record keeping we have yet to have an issue w/ warrantee claims. That being 
said we have had a long relationship W/Jamie Surrette and his supplier, Roy 
Early and his crew at RAE Battery,  one of the best suppliers in our 27+ years.
On Oct 22, 2015, at 11:15 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
> 
> Anyone using Rolls Surrette batteries?  Happy with them?  Worth the extra $$$?
> 
> Thanks for the feedback,
> Kris
> 
> -- 
> Shine On!
> 
> Kris Schmid
> Legacy Solar, LLC
> 864 Clam Falls Trail
> Frederic, WI 54837
> www.legacysolar.com
> 715-653-4295
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
> BSEE
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