Re: [RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel

[August Goers]

Ray,



I’m intrigued by this. We’ve always gone off NEC 300.3(B):



(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of

the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor

and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding conductors

shall be contained within the same raceway, auxiliary

gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or

cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with

300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).



I interpret this to mean that we need to run neutrals along with any branch
circuits we are moving over.



Best,



August





From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Walters

Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 5:44 PM

To: RE-wrenches

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel



Hi Chris;



Its the same as a switch leg for a light.  The neutral stays at the light,
only the hot is run down to the switch and back.

Also, with some critical load panel set ups available (ie Generac), there
is no provision to even run the neutrals to the new CLP.

This is cleaner and involves much less splicing.  Fewer connections is
usually better in my book.



R.Ray Walters

CTO, Solarray, Inc

Nabcep Certified PV Installer,

Licensed Master Electrician

Solar Design Engineer

303 505-8760

On 9/8/2016 6:22 PM, Chris Mason wrote:



I disagree with the response that you do not need to move the neutrals. You
should never have the load's phase wiring in one panel and the neutral in
another.











Chris Mason

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Solar Design Engineer

Generac Generators Industrial technician
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel

[Mark Westbrock]

Hi Mac,

Our strictest local inspector allows us to do just what you are describing,
per NEC 312.8.  For the label described in 312.8(3), we make a custom label
that reads:

"Warning: This panel contains feed-through conductors.  OCPD for these
feed-through conductors are located ..." and then indicate physical
location of new subpanel (e.g. directly below this panel, etc.).

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

Mark

Mark Westbrock|  VP, Branch Manager |  Employee Owner
NABCEP™ Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP™ Certified
Technical Sales Professional
NM EE98J Licensed Electrician
510 S. Main St., Las Cruces, NM 88001
cell  575.640.2432 |  office  575.524.2030
m...@positiveenergysolar.com  
www.PositiveEnergySolar.com 



>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello wrenches,
>>>
>>> We run into many scenarios where we are locating a critical load panel
>>> adjacent to an existing service to make it easy to move the loads.  I've
>>> always taken it for granted (as have the electricians that we use) that we
>>> can't do a splice in the main panel and extend the load wiring to the
>>> critical load panel.  Is there code violation for doing a splice in the
>>> main panel and extending the leads to the critical panel?  You would be
>>> treating the service panel as a pass-trough/splice box for those critical
>>> loads.
>>>
>>> It makes me wonder because of all of the prewired transfer switch
>>> packages with wire whips already attached that seem to be designed to do
>>> just that.
>>>
>>> Code references would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mac Lewis
>>>
>>> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
>>>
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>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Benn,

I assume the transfer switch is not over by the generator.  If that's the
case, there are typically many ways to do it utilizing a contactors that
senses the utility side of the transfer switch.  You can also use the
control signal that sends the signal to the generator to start.  That is
usually a 12V signal.

Good luck

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 4:11 AM, Tump  wrote:

> Wire them to the utility side of the transfer switch, Auto restart and
> probably manufacture recommended method of connection when used in
> conjunction w/ gen set. T
>
> On Sep 8, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
>
> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system
> that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
>
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders
> to the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the
> house electrical panelboard.
>
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is
> a power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a
> manual reset.
>
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *Benn Kilburn *
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
> [image: email]  [image: facebook]
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Tump]

Wire them to the utility side of the transfer switch, Auto restart and probably 
manufacture recommended method of connection when used in conjunction w/ gen 
set. T
> On Sep 8, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system that 
> has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
> 
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders to 
> the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the 
> house electrical panelboard.
> 
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is a 
> power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual 
> reset.
> 
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Benn Kilburn 
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com 
>    
>    
>  
> 
> 
> 
> WE HAVE MOVED! Please note our new address above.
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> t...@swnl.net 
>   
>  www.SWNL.net 
> 
> Solarwinds Northernlights   
>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401  
> 
>   Blair "TUMP" May
>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
>
>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
> 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Matthew Sirum]

Greetings Benn,

There may be another option which would avoid extra controls/devices.
The point of interconnection of the inverter output circuits could be
a supply side connection; the inverter outputs could be combined and
interconnected between the service point/utility meter and the utility
supply connection to the automatic transfer switch.  This may be an
installation option to consider if allowed in the jurisdiction where
your project is located and if practical given the existing electrical
work and nature of the site/building.

Best regards,

MATT

Matthew Sirum
P.O. Box 1227
Greenfield, MA 01302-1227  USA
phone: +1.413.773.0611
email: matthewsi...@gmail.com


Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2016 11:00:09 -0600
From: Benn Kilburn 
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

Wrenches,
We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied
system that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.

The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the
feeders to the house are underground. Inverters are located in the
house basement mechanial room along with the house electrical
panelboard.

We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there
is a power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be
a manual reset.

What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?

Thanks,

*Benn Kilburn *
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
14515 ? 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
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