date:20170308

Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

2017-03-08 Thread Andrew Truitt

FYI, Aquion just went BK

.



- Andrew



"Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion
to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor
safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!"

~William McDonough

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 12:57 PM, John Blittersdorf <
john.blittersd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Drake,
> I just did my first Aquion Install on an off-grid second home.  It is
> a 24V single VFX3524.  10 Aspen 24 volt stacks.  No one has been living
> there since I installed it but at least the generator stopped running 2 or
> 3 times a day just to maintain the heating system. The generator hasn't run
> at all (since the first charge) the 10 days since we installed it. I am
> waiting for the owners to come up from NYC in early April to give it the
> test.  It will get hit hard so we should know right away how it will
> respond.  I have the system monitored on OpticsRE so we will be able to see
> what is happening.  So far the batteries have stayed between 24.6 and
> 28.6.  I, too, am anxious to see what happens when we are running with the
> inverter set for the lowest setting which I think is around 39 or 40
> volts.  It will be great to have the OpticsRE control to play around with
> the AGS settings to find the most efficient settings in regard to generator
> run time.   Our #1 goal now is to minimize gen time.
>
> John Blittersdorf
> Solar Guru
> Rob Stubbins Solar
>
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Martin Herzfeld 
> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone worked with them with a Sunny Island?  Space is not an issue
>> for this client.
>>
>> Martin Herzfeld, IREC Certified Master Trainer ™ for PV Installation
>> Professional #IREC 10037
>> California Solar Contractor License  #00833782  C46, D56, D31, C-7
>> Solar, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation
>>
>> UL Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
>> OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #C0068034
>> CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG
>>
>> Registered NABCEP Continuing Education (CE) Provider
>>
>>
>> On Jul 20, 2016 2:00 PM, "Jerry Shafer"  wrote:
>>
>> We had a customer request them but once we found out how many it would
>> take, he decided on the deka unigee instead. l dont like running my OB's at
>> such a low voltage as they seem to get hotter due to the higher current.
>> Some of our other product lines don't even reccomend aquions due to that
>> low voltage, suggest asking your inverter manufacture too.
>>
>> On Jul 20, 2016 10:52 AM, "Drake" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Wrenches,
>>>
>>> I have a client who is going to take the plunge and buy a set of Aquion
>>> Batteries. They look pretty good on paper, but I'm not sure how well an
>>> inverter would function at the 40 V minimum. Does anyone have experience to
>>> recommend them or warn against using them?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Drake
>>>
>>> Drake Chamberlin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified
>>> Solar PV 740-448-7328 <740-448-7328> *http://athens-electric.com/
>>>
>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

2017-03-08 Thread William Miller

Wrenches:



As a caution:  The TL22 inverters have been discontinued.  The TL40s have
some limitations as compared to the TL22s, in my opinion.  You may still
find TL22s on the shelf.



William





[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com 
805-438-5600



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Tump
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2017 1:13 PM
*To:* findso...@herzfeld.org; RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries



I have dual Sunny Islands & dual SB 4000TL22US  w/ 20 stack on one and
another site w/ the *Aspen 48M* w/ Schneider. I will say this; cost per amp
hour of storage  sucks w/ the Aquion batteries. Both my client and I feel,
that the batteries, despite there size have very little capacity. The
“30”%DOD, that I have the SIs set to start the Gen set, charges the stacks
OK but one gets better performance from  charging w/slower solar source.
The Aspen48M is ~ 42X28X42” @563 AH of capacity, UnigyII 2000 Ah ~ 42x40x6’
tall. Batteries are defiantly temperature sensitive, operating should be ~
60*. The set up w/ the SMA product, adds additional cost due to the
required  BM200 AND  the Sunny Island Interface Device, and the SM100
unless you are buying theAspen48M which comes pre wired. (*Aspen 48M which
comes thru w/ the sensing module installed).  It is quite helpful, if this
is an off grid install due to the fact that the BM200 needs and when things
go south Aquion can toggle the unit off site and help w/ configuration
& **upgrades,
to be connected to the internet. This install also needs the correct
firmware to be installed on the SI which when  was delivered, the firmware
 would only load into the master then shut down the system. Had
to reconfigure as 2 separate units, load the firm ware and then reconfigure
for 2 phase. *

*I have spoken to the manufacture re/ lack of capacity and was told that
must be my loads…. NOT. *

*I would suggest that despite their hype these are quite expensive and
require quite a bit more of labor IF you are wiring the un sensed stacks.
And there is definitely a learning curve if you are using the SI.*

*My own system and what I prefer to push IS the SMA SI w/ the SMA SBs (make
sure that you get the TL22s as the newest SB is not compatible for “ AC
coupling” in this configuration) w/ the Unigy II/MK line. (same battery)
These have buss bars, stack vertically , the interlocking stacks is perfect
for earthquake locations. AND are totally **recyclable.*

*Pictures  of the SMA install & insights of battery installation available,
contact me off line.  TUMP *



On Mar 8, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Martin Herzfeld  wrote:



Has anyone worked with them with a Sunny Island?  Space is not an issue for
this client.

Martin Herzfeld, IREC Certified Master Trainer ™ for PV Installation
Professional #IREC 10037
California Solar Contractor License  #00833782  C46, D56, D31, C-7
Solar, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation

UL Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #C0068034
CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG

Registered NABCEP Continuing Education (CE) Provider




On Jul 20, 2016 2:00 PM, "Jerry Shafer"  wrote:

We had a customer request them but once we found out how many it would
take, he decided on the deka unigee instead. l dont like running my OB's at
such a low voltage as they seem to get hotter due to the higher current.
Some of our other product lines don't even reccomend aquions due to that
low voltage, suggest asking your inverter manufacture too.



On Jul 20, 2016 10:52 AM, "Drake" 
wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

I have a client who is going to take the plunge and buy a set of Aquion
Batteries. They look pretty good on paper, but I'm not sure how well an
inverter would function at the 40 V minimum. Does anyone have experience to
recommend them or warn against using them?

Thanks,

Drake

Drake Chamberlin





*Athens Electric LLCOH License 44810CO License 3773NABCEP Certified Solar
PV 740-448-7328 <740-448-7328>*http://athens-electric.com/



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[RE-wrenches] Aquion BANKRUPT

2017-03-08 Thread Tump

As of today at ~ 3PM Aquion has closed up shop! Another reason NOT to use them!
> t...@swnl.net 
>   
>  www.SWNL.net 
> 
> Solarwinds Northernlights   
>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401  
> 
>   Blair "TUMP" May
>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
>
>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
> 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

2017-03-08 Thread Starlight Solar Power Systems

Hi Tump,

If you recall, this is EXACTLY what I was calling into question on this list 
back on November 11th, 2014 and again on Jan 29th, 2016. It looks like you have 
confirmed my suspicion. The battery can not possible provide the rated 
capacity. I hope others that have tested these batteries will also confirm this 
as it could be a very expensive mistake.

Here’s my Jan 29th post:

"Something does not add up to me. The cell has a voltage discharge curve way 
outside that of RE equipment, 1.75 Vpc down to 0.5Vpc. I can't see how this 
technology could be scaled to RE applications without wasting much of the 
capacity. From what I see, only about 40% could be used before LVD.

And this:
The Aquion battery claims their 2.4kWh, 48 volt stack operates from 59 to 30 
volts. Many inverters have a LBCO of 1.75 Vpc (42 volts). Depending on voltage 
sag, that means about half of the capacity of the Aquion battery can't be used. 
Even if the outback can operate down to 1.5 Vpc, you are still not able to use 
the full capacity of the battery unless your load is less than 800 Watts. 

I have reviewed their technical presentation and it looks to me like the 
capacity simply can't be used in the off grid environment. If you can't use it, 
why do they rate it at 2.4kWh? BTW, the Voltage vs.Energy chart on the spec 
sheet does not match the first chart I posted."

Thank you,

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(928) 342-9103

On Mar 8, 2017, at 2:13 PM, Tump  wrote:

I have dual Sunny Islands & dual SB 4000TL22US  w/ 20 stack on one and another 
site w/ the Aspen 48M w/ Schneider. I will say this; cost per amp hour of 
storage  sucks w/ the Aquion batteries. Both my client and I feel, that the 
batteries, despite there size have very little capacity. The “30”%DOD, that I 
have the SIs set to start the Gen set, charges the stacks OK but one gets 
better performance from  charging w/slower solar source. The Aspen48M is ~ 
42X28X42” @563 AH of capacity, UnigyII 2000 Ah ~ 42x40x6’ tall. Batteries are 
defiantly temperature sensitive, operating should be ~ 60*. The set up w/ the 
SMA product, adds additional cost due to the required  BM200 AND  the Sunny 
Island Interface Device, and the SM100 unless you are buying theAspen48M which 
comes pre wired. (Aspen 48M which comes thru w/ the sensing module installed).  
It is quite helpful, if this is an off grid install due to the fact that the 
BM200 needs and when things go south Aquion can toggle the unit off site and 
help w/ configuration & upgrades, to be connected to the internet. This install 
also needs the correct firmware to be installed on the SI which when  was 
delivered, the firmware  would only load into the master then shut down the 
system. Had to reconfigure as 2 separate units, load the firm ware and then 
reconfigure for 2 phase. 
I have spoken to the manufacture re/ lack of capacity and was told that must be 
my loads…. NOT. 
I would suggest that despite their hype these are quite expensive and require 
quite a bit more of labor IF you are wiring the un sensed stacks. And there is 
definitely a learning curve if you are using the SI.
My own system and what I prefer to push IS the SMA SI w/ the SMA SBs (make sure 
that you get the TL22s as the newest SB is not compatible for “ AC coupling” in 
this configuration) w/ the Unigy II/MK line. (same battery) These have buss 
bars, stack vertically , the interlocking stacks is perfect for earthquake 
locations. AND are totally recyclable.
Pictures  of the SMA install & insights of battery installation available, 
contact me off line.  TUMP 

> On Mar 8, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Martin Herzfeld  > wrote:
> 
> Has anyone worked with them with a Sunny Island?  Space is not an issue for 
> this client.
> 
> Martin Herzfeld, IREC Certified Master Trainer ™ for PV Installation 
> Professional #IREC 10037
> California Solar Contractor License  #00833782  C46, D56, D31, C-7
> Solar, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation
> 
> UL Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
> OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #C0068034
> CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG
> 
> Registered NABCEP Continuing Education (CE) Provider
> 
> 
> On Jul 20, 2016 2:00 PM, "Jerry Shafer"  > wrote:
> We had a customer request them but once we found out how many it would take, 
> he decided on the deka unigee instead. l dont like running my OB's at such a 
> low voltage as they seem to get hotter due to the higher current. Some of our 
> other product lines don't even reccomend aquions due to that low voltage, 
> suggest asking your inverter manufacture too.
> 
> 
> On Jul 20, 2016 10:52 AM, "Drake"  > wrote:
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> I have a client who is going to take the

Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

2017-03-08 Thread Tump

I have dual Sunny Islands & dual SB 4000TL22US  w/ 20 stack on one and another 
site w/ the Aspen 48M w/ Schneider. I will say this; cost per amp hour of 
storage  sucks w/ the Aquion batteries. Both my client and I feel, that the 
batteries, despite there size have very little capacity. The “30”%DOD, that I 
have the SIs set to start the Gen set, charges the stacks OK but one gets 
better performance from  charging w/slower solar source. The Aspen48M is ~ 
42X28X42” @563 AH of capacity, UnigyII 2000 Ah ~ 42x40x6’ tall. Batteries are 
defiantly temperature sensitive, operating should be ~ 60*. The set up w/ the 
SMA product, adds additional cost due to the required  BM200 AND  the Sunny 
Island Interface Device, and the SM100 unless you are buying theAspen48M which 
comes pre wired. (Aspen 48M which comes thru w/ the sensing module installed).  
It is quite helpful, if this is an off grid install due to the fact that the 
BM200 needs and when things go south Aquion can toggle the unit off site and 
help w/ configuration & upgrades, to be connected to the internet. This install 
also needs the correct firmware to be installed on the SI which when  was 
delivered, the firmware  would only load into the master then shut down the 
system. Had to reconfigure as 2 separate units, load the firm ware and then 
reconfigure for 2 phase. 
I have spoken to the manufacture re/ lack of capacity and was told that must be 
my loads…. NOT. 
I would suggest that despite their hype these are quite expensive and require 
quite a bit more of labor IF you are wiring the un sensed stacks. And there is 
definitely a learning curve if you are using the SI.
My own system and what I prefer to push IS the SMA SI w/ the SMA SBs (make sure 
that you get the TL22s as the newest SB is not compatible for “ AC coupling” in 
this configuration) w/ the Unigy II/MK line. (same battery) These have buss 
bars, stack vertically , the interlocking stacks is perfect for earthquake 
locations. AND are totally recyclable.
Pictures  of the SMA install & insights of battery installation available, 
contact me off line.  TUMP 

> On Mar 8, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Martin Herzfeld  wrote:
> 
> Has anyone worked with them with a Sunny Island?  Space is not an issue for 
> this client.
> 
> Martin Herzfeld, IREC Certified Master Trainer ™ for PV Installation 
> Professional #IREC 10037
> California Solar Contractor License  #00833782  C46, D56, D31, C-7
> Solar, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation
> 
> UL Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
> OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #C0068034
> CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG
> 
> Registered NABCEP Continuing Education (CE) Provider
> 
> 
> On Jul 20, 2016 2:00 PM, "Jerry Shafer"  > wrote:
> We had a customer request them but once we found out how many it would take, 
> he decided on the deka unigee instead. l dont like running my OB's at such a 
> low voltage as they seem to get hotter due to the higher current. Some of our 
> other product lines don't even reccomend aquions due to that low voltage, 
> suggest asking your inverter manufacture too.
> 
> 
> On Jul 20, 2016 10:52 AM, "Drake"  > wrote:
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> I have a client who is going to take the plunge and buy a set of Aquion 
> Batteries. They look pretty good on paper, but I'm not sure how well an 
> inverter would function at the 40 V minimum. Does anyone have experience to 
> recommend them or warn against using them?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drake
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> OH License 44810
> CO License 3773
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV 
> 740-448-7328 
> http://athens-electric.com/  
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

2017-03-08 Thread John Blittersdorf

Drake,
I just did my first Aquion Install on an off-grid second home.  It is a
24V single VFX3524.  10 Aspen 24 volt stacks.  No one has been living there
since I installed it but at least the generator stopped running 2 or 3
times a day just to maintain the heating system. The generator hasn't run
at all (since the first charge) the 10 days since we installed it. I am
waiting for the owners to come up from NYC in early April to give it the
test.  It will get hit hard so we should know right away how it will
respond.  I have the system monitored on OpticsRE so we will be able to see
what is happening.  So far the batteries have stayed between 24.6 and
28.6.  I, too, am anxious to see what happens when we are running with the
inverter set for the lowest setting which I think is around 39 or 40
volts.  It will be great to have the OpticsRE control to play around with
the AGS settings to find the most efficient settings in regard to generator
run time.   Our #1 goal now is to minimize gen time.

John Blittersdorf
Solar Guru
Rob Stubbins Solar

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 12:55 PM, Martin Herzfeld 
wrote:

> Has anyone worked with them with a Sunny Island?  Space is not an issue
> for this client.
>
> Martin Herzfeld, IREC Certified Master Trainer ™ for PV Installation
> Professional #IREC 10037
> California Solar Contractor License  #00833782  C46, D56, D31, C-7
> Solar, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation
>
> UL Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
> OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #C0068034
> CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG
>
> Registered NABCEP Continuing Education (CE) Provider
>
>
> On Jul 20, 2016 2:00 PM, "Jerry Shafer"  wrote:
>
> We had a customer request them but once we found out how many it would
> take, he decided on the deka unigee instead. l dont like running my OB's at
> such a low voltage as they seem to get hotter due to the higher current.
> Some of our other product lines don't even reccomend aquions due to that
> low voltage, suggest asking your inverter manufacture too.
>
> On Jul 20, 2016 10:52 AM, "Drake" 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Wrenches,
>>
>> I have a client who is going to take the plunge and buy a set of Aquion
>> Batteries. They look pretty good on paper, but I'm not sure how well an
>> inverter would function at the 40 V minimum. Does anyone have experience to
>> recommend them or warn against using them?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Drake
>>
>> Drake Chamberlin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified
>> Solar PV 740-448-7328 <740-448-7328> *http://athens-electric.com/
>>
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

2017-03-08 Thread Martin Herzfeld

Has anyone worked with them with a Sunny Island?  Space is not an issue for
this client.

Martin Herzfeld, IREC Certified Master Trainer ™ for PV Installation
Professional #IREC 10037
California Solar Contractor License  #00833782  C46, D56, D31, C-7
Solar, Trenching, Pole Installation & Maintenance, Instrumentation

UL Certified PV Installer #17, OSHA 30
OSHA-Authorized Construction Trainer #C0068034
CompTIA Certified Technical Classroom Trainer (CTT+) #T3NSZCNBBKB4QTQG

Registered NABCEP Continuing Education (CE) Provider


On Jul 20, 2016 2:00 PM, "Jerry Shafer"  wrote:

We had a customer request them but once we found out how many it would
take, he decided on the deka unigee instead. l dont like running my OB's at
such a low voltage as they seem to get hotter due to the higher current.
Some of our other product lines don't even reccomend aquions due to that
low voltage, suggest asking your inverter manufacture too.

On Jul 20, 2016 10:52 AM, "Drake" 
wrote:

> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I have a client who is going to take the plunge and buy a set of Aquion
> Batteries. They look pretty good on paper, but I'm not sure how well an
> inverter would function at the 40 V minimum. Does anyone have experience to
> recommend them or warn against using them?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
>
> Drake Chamberlin
>
>
>
>
>
> *Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified
> Solar PV 740-448-7328 <740-448-7328> *http://athens-electric.com/
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Maine's Net Metering

2017-03-08 Thread Tump

So this is where OUR wonderful PUC and our own, “Trump" like governor, got this 
foolish idea. Maine is NOT to far behind you…… NET metering, SEEYA!
Ahh the race to the bottom has begun!
> On Mar 7, 2017, at 1:02 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf  wrote:
> 
> Aloha Drake.
>  
> Yes, our PUC in its ultimate wisdom, ended our 14-year very successful 
> (80,000+ customers) NEM program back in October 2015.  That said, a lot of us 
> are still installing NEM systems since the Hawaiian Electric companies have 
> been (in my opinion) bending over backward to allow homeowners to get their 
> conditionally approved NEM systems installed and operational.  But that’s 
> coming to an end in the months to come.
>  
> The PUC grandfathered all those NEM systems, so all of us lucky enough to 
> have NEM golden tickets can still provide surplus PV power back to the grid 
> and receive full retail credit.
>  
> Right now we are the first state in the country (the freakin’ bleeding edge) 
> where new interconnect agreements (customer self supply or self consumption) 
> do not allow for any export.  Hence the need for batteries.
>  
> Hence the dire state of our once thriving PV industry.
>  
> marco
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> ] On Behalf Of Drake
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 7:57 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Net Metering
>  
> Home Power Magazine wrote that Hawaii had ended its net metering program 
> https://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/design-installation/net-metering-beyond
>  
> 
>  . Does this mean that existing customers with net metering contracts are 
> unable to use their grid tied PV systems? How does it work when a state or 
> utility ends net metering?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drake 
>  
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> OH License 44810
> CO License 3773
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV 
> 740-448-7328
> http://athens-electric.com/  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> <~WRD116.jpg> 
> 
>
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. 
> www.avast.com 
> 
>  
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> t...@swnl.net 
>   
>  www.SWNL.net 
> 
> Solarwinds Northernlights   
>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401  
> 
>   Blair "TUMP" May
>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
>
>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
> 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

[RE-wrenches] Aquion BANKRUPT

Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries

Re: [RE-wrenches] Maine's Net Metering

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