Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA US 40 & AC coupling

2017-03-13 Thread Drake 

I talked with Tim at SMA today, and the
new  Sunny Boy inverters will  provide taper
charging with the Sunny Islands even though no RS
485 communication is available. The Sunny Boys
need to be programmed in the off grid mode, and
the Sunny Islands will take care of the UL 1741 requirements.

The graph below shows the relation between
frequency shift and % power produced by the Sunny Boy inverters.
Emacs!


Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/
At 11:36 AM 3/10/2017, you wrote:

I just checked with SMA and they do not have an
RS485 card for the -40 inverters. What this
means is that you can set them up to be
permanently in off grid mode where the SB will
follow the frequency shift of the SI, ok for an
off grid system. But for grid tie with backup,
the SB will not communicate with the SI and will
not change the SB to off grid mode. It will
still work like other generic AC coupled systems
where the frequency shift will cause the SB
inverter to drop off line, but as far as I know no throttling back will happen.

Brad

On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 6:12 AM, Drake
<drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org>
wrote:
I talked to SMA tech support. They said the 5.0
and 6.0 models were compatible with AC coupling.
AEE supplied the SI 485PB NR Piggyback card with RJ 45 cable.

At 06:45 AM 3/10/2017, you wrote:

Well my supplier was not aware of any
additional part# for this purpose. Nor was
their anything in their manual stating compatibility.
Part# PLEASE, It does seem short sighted of the
company who pioneered AC Coupling to no longer
provide us w/ equipment for said ACC.

On Mar 9, 2017, at 8:47 AM, Drake
<
drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org> wrote:

I was told by SMA tech support that the new
SMA US 40s were compatible with AC coupling. I
was provided with interface cards for the purpose.

At 04:21 PM 3/8/2017, William Miller wrote:

What are the limitations of the new SMA inverters?

Drake



Wrenches:
Â
As a caution:  The TL22 inverters have
been discontinued.  The TL40s have some
limitations as compared to the TL22s, in my
opinion.  You may still find TL22s on the shelf.
Â
William
Â
Â
<28a7dc11.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600
Â
From: RE-wrenches [
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
On Behalf Of Tump
Sent: Wednesday, March 08, 2017 1:13 PM
To: findso...@herzfeld.org; RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Aquion Batteries
Â
I have dual Sunny Islands & dual SB
4000TL22US Â w/ 20 stack on one and another
site w/ the Aspen 48M w/ Schneider. I
will say this; cost per amp hour of storage
 sucks w/ the Aquion batteries. Both my
client and I feel, that the batteries,
despite there size have very little capacity.
The “30†%DOD, that I haI have the SIs
set to start the Gen set, charges the stacks
OK but one gets better performance from Â
charging w/slower solar source. The Aspen48M
is ~ 42X28X42†@563 AH of capacity, UnigyII
2000 Ah ~ 42x40x6’ tall. Batteriesies are
defiantly temperature sensitive, operating
should be ~ 60*. The set up w/ the SMA
product, adds additional cost due to the
required  BM200 AND  the Sunny Island
Interface Device, and the SM100 unless you
are buying theAspen48M which comes pre wired.
(Aspen 48M which comes thru w/ the sensing
module installed).  It is quite helpful,
if this is an off grid install due to the
fact that the BM200 needs and when things go
south Aquion can toggle the unit off site and
help w/ configuration &Â upgrades, to be
connected to the internet. This install also
needs the correct firmware to be installed on
the SI which when  was delivered, the
firmware  would only load into the master
then shut down the system. Had toÂ
reconfigure as 2Â separate units, load the
firm ware and then reconfigure for 2 phase.Â
I have spoken to the manufacture re/ lack of
capacity and was told that must be my loads…. NOT.Â
>I would suggest that despite their hype
these are quite expensive and require quite
a bit more of labor IF you are wiring theÂ
un sensed stacks. And there is definitely
a learning curve if you are using the SI.
My own system and what I prefer to push IS
the SMA SI w/ the SMA SBs (make sure that you
get the TL22s as the newest SB is not
compatible for “ AC coupling†in this
configuration) w/) w/ the Unigy II/MK line.
(same battery) These have buss bars, stackÂ
vertically , the interlocking stacks is
perfect for earthquake locations. AND are totally recyclable.
Pictures  of the SMA install & insights
of battery installation available, contact me off line.  TUMPÂ
 Â
On Mar 8, 2017, at 12:55 PM, Martin Herzfeld
<findso...@herzfeld.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla 2.0

2017-03-13 Thread Chris Mason 
We installed the Sonnen system in Anguilla where the utility does not allow
export and charges for export power. The Sonnen was not designed to work in
that scenario, so we have had to design and implement a software and
hardware solution for that problem. Our controller takes SOC data from the
Sonnen and disconnects the inverter when the SOC is about 100%. We're still
tweaking it but it should solve the problem cheaply.

On Mon, Mar 13, 2017 at 12:16 PM, August Goers  wrote:

> All –
>
>
>
> Yea, it’s amazing how much buzz Tesla was able to generate with their
> Powerwall without even having a product ready for sale. I’ve been keeping
> track of these next generation lithium-ion batteries so that we can keep up
> with the demand of all the tech savvy early adopters here in the Bay Area.
> It’s tough when there aren’t any products really ready for prime time!
>
>
>
> Tesla is only releasing an AC version of the PW2 with built in inverter.
> So, everything will be AC-coupled including to SolarEdge inverters. For
> backup, you must install a Tesla supplied “energy gateway” which basically
> looks like a 200 A automatic transfer switch used to isolate the backup
> panel (also referred to as the critical or protected loads panel) when the
> grid goes down. I haven’t actually seen an energy gateway spec sheet so I
> don’t know the specifics of how it works. Current transformer meters are
> required in the main panel and backup panel. There are spec sheets out
> there on the net with more information including simple single line
> diagrams of the setup. Dimensions are 45.3 in x 29.7 in. x 6.1 in. Various
> use scenarios should be possible including self consumption, non-export,
> and charge/discharge profile programming (arbitrage) but it will always be
> a balance between these types of use cases versus keeping it topped off for
> battery backup. I don’t have enough experience across a wide fleet of
> installations to know how we will balance these arbitrage profile
> programming modes versus always being ready for a power outage. In
> California we are also preparing for the Self Generation Incentive Program
> (SGIP) reopening and how to qualify for the Fed tax credit when paired with
> PV. There are a lot of constraints to work with!
>
>
>
> Our SolarEdge rep confirmed that they are focusing on pairing their
> StorEdge product with the LG RESSU10H li-ion battery coming out later this
> year. This will be DC coupled.
>
>
>
> The obvious benefits of these li-ion batteries are a) small size, b) cycle
> capacity, and c) ease of install. The high voltage output pioneered by the
> PW1 allows relatively small wires between the battery and inverter. This is
> a major benefit and is surely the future of where battery systems are
> going. Lead acid is tried and true, but has limited cycle capacity and the
> 48 volt limit will always make for a somewhat bulky and slow installation.
>
>
>
> August
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Rebekah Hren
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:07 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla 2.0
>
>
>
> I have the same questions as Jay, I would really like to see the real
> specs for the Tesla 2.0.
>
>
>
> Other questions I have:
>
>
>
> -How will the Tesla 2.0 be installed in coordination with a PV system -  I
> can only assume any PV system would have to be AC coupled with the Tesla?
>
>
>
> -Does the Tesla inverter handle all grid-sell functionality and keep PV
> inverter online during outage?
>
>
>
> -How does this impact the SolarEdge Storedge system that was designed to
> work with the Gen 1 Tesla that didn't have an inverter? The Storedge
> factsheet does not match the new topology:  http://www.solaredge.com/
> sites/default/files/se_storedge_inverter_datasheet_na.pdf
>
>
>
> Thanks for any insight!
>
> Rebekah
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Chris Mason 
> wrote:
>
> Don't ignore Sonnen, their ECO16 is a solid Lithium based solution. We
> installed one in Anguilla and, once we got through some software issues,
> the system performed solidly.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 9:43 PM, jay  wrote:
>
> HI All,
>
> I hesitate to bring this up, but I’ve had some questions come my way about
> the “new” Tesla 2.0
> battery backup units. And with the demise of Aquion, looks like Lithium
> and LA are pretty much the only games in town.
>
> I have been able to find quite little on line ( surprise), pretty much
> nothing from Tesla directly, but some from other folks by google search.
>
> Does anyone on the list here know anything solid?
> For example.
> what inverter is being used?
> how do they stack?
> battery chemistry?
> actual size ( depending on which info it changes)
> are they actually shipping?
>
>
> Thanks
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver

Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla 2.0

2017-03-13 Thread August Goers 
All –



Yea, it’s amazing how much buzz Tesla was able to generate with their
Powerwall without even having a product ready for sale. I’ve been keeping
track of these next generation lithium-ion batteries so that we can keep up
with the demand of all the tech savvy early adopters here in the Bay Area.
It’s tough when there aren’t any products really ready for prime time!



Tesla is only releasing an AC version of the PW2 with built in inverter.
So, everything will be AC-coupled including to SolarEdge inverters. For
backup, you must install a Tesla supplied “energy gateway” which basically
looks like a 200 A automatic transfer switch used to isolate the backup
panel (also referred to as the critical or protected loads panel) when the
grid goes down. I haven’t actually seen an energy gateway spec sheet so I
don’t know the specifics of how it works. Current transformer meters are
required in the main panel and backup panel. There are spec sheets out
there on the net with more information including simple single line
diagrams of the setup. Dimensions are 45.3 in x 29.7 in. x 6.1 in. Various
use scenarios should be possible including self consumption, non-export,
and charge/discharge profile programming (arbitrage) but it will always be
a balance between these types of use cases versus keeping it topped off for
battery backup. I don’t have enough experience across a wide fleet of
installations to know how we will balance these arbitrage profile
programming modes versus always being ready for a power outage. In
California we are also preparing for the Self Generation Incentive Program
(SGIP) reopening and how to qualify for the Fed tax credit when paired with
PV. There are a lot of constraints to work with!



Our SolarEdge rep confirmed that they are focusing on pairing their
StorEdge product with the LG RESSU10H li-ion battery coming out later this
year. This will be DC coupled.



The obvious benefits of these li-ion batteries are a) small size, b) cycle
capacity, and c) ease of install. The high voltage output pioneered by the
PW1 allows relatively small wires between the battery and inverter. This is
a major benefit and is surely the future of where battery systems are
going. Lead acid is tried and true, but has limited cycle capacity and the
48 volt limit will always make for a somewhat bulky and slow installation.



August





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Rebekah Hren
*Sent:* Saturday, March 11, 2017 4:07 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Tesla 2.0



I have the same questions as Jay, I would really like to see the real specs
for the Tesla 2.0.



Other questions I have:



-How will the Tesla 2.0 be installed in coordination with a PV system -  I
can only assume any PV system would have to be AC coupled with the Tesla?



-Does the Tesla inverter handle all grid-sell functionality and keep PV
inverter online during outage?



-How does this impact the SolarEdge Storedge system that was designed to
work with the Gen 1 Tesla that didn't have an inverter? The Storedge
factsheet does not match the new topology:
http://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se_storedge_inverter_datasheet_na.pdf



Thanks for any insight!

Rebekah



On Sat, Mar 11, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Chris Mason 
wrote:

Don't ignore Sonnen, their ECO16 is a solid Lithium based solution. We
installed one in Anguilla and, once we got through some software issues,
the system performed solidly.





On Fri, Mar 10, 2017 at 9:43 PM, jay  wrote:

HI All,

I hesitate to bring this up, but I’ve had some questions come my way about
the “new” Tesla 2.0
battery backup units. And with the demise of Aquion, looks like Lithium and
LA are pretty much the only games in town.

I have been able to find quite little on line ( surprise), pretty much
nothing from Tesla directly, but some from other folks by google search.

Does anyone on the list here know anything solid?
For example.
what inverter is being used?
how do they stack?
battery chemistry?
actual size ( depending on which info it changes)
are they actually shipping?


Thanks

jay

peltz power
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-- 

Chris Mason

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Solar Design Engineer

Generac Generators Industrial technician



www.cometsolar.com 

264.235.5670

869.662.5670

Skype: netconcepts


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