Re: [RE-wrenches] Sourcing 600 Volt CAT 5 cable

[Howie Michaelson]

Turns out I have a 400' roll of the Midnite wire which I do not need
(client changed mind, and I cannot get my supplier to take back - very
annoying!) and am willing to sell cheap,but you'd probably do better
sourcing from Midnite since shipping from VT will probably be prohibitive.

Howie

*Howie Michaelson*
*NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™*
Sun Catcher, LLC
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service
VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner
802-272-0004

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 7:36 AM, Dana  wrote:

> Thanks I will look into this option. This is my first go around with the
> rapid shut down & was going with the Midnite manual recommendation. So far
> sourcing this has not been easy.
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *208.721.7003 <%28208%29%20721-7003>
> d...@solarwork.com *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
>
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *William Miller
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 9:20 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sourcing 600 Volt CAT 5 cable
>
>
>
> Dana:
>
>
>
> The garden variety Cat5 we have been using is rated at 300 volts. Unless
> your off-grid system is using 600 volt controllers, standard Cat5 should be
> code compliant.
>
>
>
> We did source a Belden 600 V Cat5 and used it when we did not really need
> to. It was expensive and very hard to terminate.  (I damaged an Outback Hub
> 10. Expensive mistake).
>
>
>
> 600 volt Cat5 can be had, but I recommend you avoid using it if possible.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2017, at 6:04 PM, Dana  wrote:
>
> Hey All’yall.
>
>
>
> I am looking for 185’ of 600 volt CAT 5 cable for my off grid MidNite
> Solar rapid shut down system.
>
> I am not looking for the USE version.
>
>
>
> Please contact me off list.
>
>
>
> Thankyou!
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> *208.721.7003 <%28208%29%20721-7003>
> d...@solarwork.com *
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
>
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
>
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
>
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sourcing 600 Volt CAT 5 cable

[Chris Mason]

Or you can sleeve it in innerduct.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 10:41 AM, Tump  wrote:

> Midnite has this and can sell it to you directly if you wish.
>
> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Dana  wrote:
>
> Thanks I will look into this option. This is my first go around with the
> rapid shut down & was going with the Midnite manual recommendation. So far
> sourcing this has not been easy.
>
> 
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> *208.721.7003 <(208)%20721-7003>   d...@solarwork.com
> *
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *William Miller
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 9:20 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sourcing 600 Volt CAT 5 cable
>
> Dana:
>
> The garden variety Cat5 we have been using is rated at 300 volts. Unless
> your off-grid system is using 600 volt controllers, standard Cat5 should be
> code compliant.
>
> We did source a Belden 600 V Cat5 and used it when we did not really need
> to. It was expensive and very hard to terminate.  (I damaged an Outback Hub
> 10. Expensive mistake).
>
> 600 volt Cat5 can be had, but I recommend you avoid using it if possible.
>
> William Miller
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2017, at 6:04 PM, Dana  wrote:
>
> Hey All’yall.
>
> I am looking for 185’ of 600 volt CAT 5 cable for my off grid MidNite
> Solar rapid shut down system.
> I am not looking for the USE version.
>
> Please contact me off list.
>
> Thankyou!
>
> 
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> *208.721.7003 <(208)%20721-7003>   d...@solarwork.com
> *
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> *"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  *
> *P* Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
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>
> *t...@swnl.net*   *www.SWNL.net*
> Solarwinds Northernlights
> *   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California*
> * 207-832-7574 <(207)%20832-7574>   Cl.
> 610-517-8401 <(610)%20517-8401>  *
>   *Blair "TUMP" May*
>
>
> *     MAINE'S CHARTER  *   *
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-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sourcing 600 Volt CAT 5 cable

[Tump]

Midnite has this and can sell it to you directly if you wish.
> On Apr 28, 2017, at 7:36 AM, Dana  wrote:
> 
> Thanks I will look into this option. This is my first go around with the 
> rapid shut down & was going with the Midnite manual recommendation. So far 
> sourcing this has not been easy.
>  
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com 
> 
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz 
> 
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> ] On Behalf Of William 
> Miller
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 9:20 PM
> To: RE-wrenches  >
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sourcing 600 Volt CAT 5 cable
>  
> Dana:
>  
> The garden variety Cat5 we have been using is rated at 300 volts. Unless your 
> off-grid system is using 600 volt controllers, standard Cat5 should be code 
> compliant. 
>  
> We did source a Belden 600 V Cat5 and used it when we did not really need to. 
> It was expensive and very hard to terminate.  (I damaged an Outback Hub 10. 
> Expensive mistake). 
>  
> 600 volt Cat5 can be had, but I recommend you avoid using it if possible. 
>  
> William Miller 
> 
> On Apr 27, 2017, at 6:04 PM, Dana  > wrote:
> 
>> Hey All’yall.
>>  
>> I am looking for 185’ of 600 volt CAT 5 cable for my off grid MidNite Solar 
>> rapid shut down system.
>> I am not looking for the USE version.
>>  
>> Please contact me off list. 
>>  
>> Thankyou!  
>>  
>> 
>> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 
>> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com 
>> 
>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
>> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz 
>> 
>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
>> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>  
>>  
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> 
>> 
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org 
>> 
>> 
>> List-Archive: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html 
>> 
>> 
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm 
>> 
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org 
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> mailto:t...@swnl.net%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:t...@swnl.net>  
>  www.SWNL.net 
> http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/>
> Solarwinds Northernlights   
>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401  
> 
>   Blair "TUMP" May
>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
>
>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
> 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Third Radian ---> Class T Fuse With/Without Fuse Holder

[Glenn Burt]

Not an LB, but  conduit body (straight).
This is how Backwoods Solar used to sell the class T fuseholder.
Also the code says splices are allowed as long as the conduit body is marked 
with its volume by the manufacturer.

Glenn

-Original Message-
From: "Tump" 
Sent: ‎4/‎28/‎2017 8:08
To: "RE-wrenches" 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Third Radian ---> Class T Fuse With/Without Fuse 
Holder

I have seen these conduit boxes torch off, like to see and have in free air. 
Supporting battery cable makes more sense then the hassle of installing this is 
a LB.
T
> On Apr 27, 2017, at 7:41 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches
> In the event you or some else installed a Class T fuse and you want to 
> protect it a little more from cable stress, installing it inside a PVC C 
> conduit body and cover and fastening the cables to the fuse inside that, this 
> will protect the fuse from stress and metallic contact and you can put a 
> label on it stating size and type.
> Jerry
> 
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Matthew Sirum  > wrote:
> Greetings William,
> 
> Good point.  This is something I always take into consideration.  I
> have used Class T Fuses in many situations with and without their fuse
> holders.  In the case of the installation shown in my custom DC Bus
> System pictures the wire/cable type and wire management avoid putting
> too much physical stress on the Class T Fuses.  The #4 AWG conductors
> are supported from above and apply very little stress on the fuses
> they connect to.  The 4/0 AWG cabling is Cobra X-Flex (fine stand,
> very flexible) and each of these conductors is secured a few inches
> from where they connect to their fuses.  Care was taken in making up
> these connection and they were all carefully adjusted and inspected to
> ensure they would not stress the fuses.  I feel really good about how
> it all came together.  The same care and attention will be needed
> whenever these connections are serviced and the fasteners are
> torqued/tightened.  When well planned and carefully assembled I do not
> have concern there will be any issues related to not using the fuse
> holder.  I also think about this another way as well...  Using the
> Class T Fuse Holder adds another 2 connections to the circuit.  I try
> to remind myself that more connections can equal more chance of
> issues...  Although, if a manufacturer of a Class T Fuse states the
> fuse holder must be used with their fuse there could be an NEC
> violation by not using it.
> 
> One thing to note about the use of these fuses in this installation is
> that they are supplemental over current protection (OCP).  Each
> positive (ungrounded) conductor connecting to this DC Bus System has a
> means of primary over current protection and disconnect on its
> opposite end.  The battery systems, the charge controllers, and the
> inverter/chargers all have circuit breaker disconnects on their
> respective positive circuit conductors connecting to this DC Bus
> System.  I have seen other folks build without having the needed
> appropriate means of disconnect and OCP; although most folk are
> probably more likely to include the primary OCP, but not consider the
> supplemental OCP.  The supplemental OCP (Class T Fuses) provide
> protection in the event of a fault or short in a circuit between the
> Bus System and the other OCP at the other equipment.
> 
> Like many folks I have installed and worked on battery systems where
> we install a Class T Fuse directly onto the positive terminal of the
> battery bank or via some form of busbar or connector etc.  In these
> cases not only do we need to take care not to stress the fuse, but the
> fuse itself (and added busbar/connector etc) can act like a lever and
> along with the mating cable lug(s) create too much stress on the
> battery terminal...  Potentially damaging the terminal, the inner
> battery connection to the terminal, and/or the seal between the
> battery case and the terminal.  Carelessly tightening the
> hardware/fasteners to assemble these items to the battery terminal is
> a common way of inflicting damage on the battery as well.  I know I
> have been involved in some service situations where there was more
> stress on the Class T Fuse than I would like to see, but as best I
> know there have not been any fuse failures because of it.
> 
> Thanks for bringing up this question!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> MATT
> 
> Matthew Sirum
> P.O. Box 1227
> Greenfield, MA 01302-1227  USA
> phone: +1.413.773.0611 
> email: matthewsi...@gmail.com 
> 
> 
>  Original Message Below 
> 
> [RE-wrenches] Third Radian
> 
> William Miller william at millersolar.com 
> Tue Apr 25 23:03:03 PDT 2017
> 
> Matt:
> 
> I have a question for you:  I have often considered mounting Class T fuses
> directly to a bus bar as you have done.  Are you ever worried about physical
> strain on the fuse itself without a 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Sourcing 600 Volt CAT 5 cable

[Dana]

Thanks I will look into this option. This is my first go around with the rapid 
shut down & was going with the Midnite manual recommendation. So far sourcing 
this has not been easy.

 



Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 

208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of William Miller
Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2017 9:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sourcing 600 Volt CAT 5 cable

 

Dana:

 

The garden variety Cat5 we have been using is rated at 300 volts. Unless your 
off-grid system is using 600 volt controllers, standard Cat5 should be code 
compliant. 

 

We did source a Belden 600 V Cat5 and used it when we did not really need to. 
It was expensive and very hard to terminate.  (I damaged an Outback Hub 10. 
Expensive mistake). 

 

600 volt Cat5 can be had, but I recommend you avoid using it if possible. 

 

William Miller 


On Apr 27, 2017, at 6:04 PM, Dana mailto:d...@solarwork.com> > wrote:

Hey All’yall.

 

I am looking for 185’ of 600 volt CAT 5 cable for my off grid MidNite Solar 
rapid shut down system.

I am not looking for the USE version.

 

Please contact me off list. 

 

Thankyou!  

 



Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 

208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com 
 

Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz 
 

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Third Radian ---> Class T Fuse With/Without Fuse Holder

[August Goers]

Hi William,



Check out NEC 314.16(C)(2):





I don’t know per se about putting fuses in conduit bodies, but the code
allows for some limited splices, taps, or devices in  conduit bodies.



August



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *William Miller
*Sent:* Thursday, April 27, 2017 7:41 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Third Radian ---> Class T Fuse With/Without
Fuse Holder



Jerry:



I thought splices or connections were forbade in condulettes. This sounds
inherently code non-compliant. Do you have information to the contrary?



William


On Apr 27, 2017, at 4:41 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:

Wrenches

In the event you or some else installed a Class T fuse and you want to
protect it a little more from cable stress, installing it inside a PVC C
conduit body and cover and fastening the cables to the fuse inside that,
this will protect the fuse from stress and metallic contact and you can put
a label on it stating size and type.

Jerry



On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Matthew Sirum 
wrote:

Greetings William,

Good point.  This is something I always take into consideration.  I
have used Class T Fuses in many situations with and without their fuse
holders.  In the case of the installation shown in my custom DC Bus
System pictures the wire/cable type and wire management avoid putting
too much physical stress on the Class T Fuses.  The #4 AWG conductors
are supported from above and apply very little stress on the fuses
they connect to.  The 4/0 AWG cabling is Cobra X-Flex (fine stand,
very flexible) and each of these conductors is secured a few inches
from where they connect to their fuses.  Care was taken in making up
these connection and they were all carefully adjusted and inspected to
ensure they would not stress the fuses.  I feel really good about how
it all came together.  The same care and attention will be needed
whenever these connections are serviced and the fasteners are
torqued/tightened.  When well planned and carefully assembled I do not
have concern there will be any issues related to not using the fuse
holder.  I also think about this another way as well...  Using the
Class T Fuse Holder adds another 2 connections to the circuit.  I try
to remind myself that more connections can equal more chance of
issues...  Although, if a manufacturer of a Class T Fuse states the
fuse holder must be used with their fuse there could be an NEC
violation by not using it.

One thing to note about the use of these fuses in this installation is
that they are supplemental over current protection (OCP).  Each
positive (ungrounded) conductor connecting to this DC Bus System has a
means of primary over current protection and disconnect on its
opposite end.  The battery systems, the charge controllers, and the
inverter/chargers all have circuit breaker disconnects on their
respective positive circuit conductors connecting to this DC Bus
System.  I have seen other folks build without having the needed
appropriate means of disconnect and OCP; although most folk are
probably more likely to include the primary OCP, but not consider the
supplemental OCP.  The supplemental OCP (Class T Fuses) provide
protection in the event of a fault or short in a circuit between the
Bus System and the other OCP at the other equipment.

Like many folks I have installed and worked on battery systems where
we install a Class T Fuse directly onto the positive terminal of the
battery bank or via some form of busbar or connector etc.  In these
cases not only do we need to take care not to stress the fuse, but the
fuse itself (and added busbar/connector etc) can act like a lever and
along with the mating cable lug(s) create too much stress on the
battery terminal...  Potentially damaging the terminal, the inner
battery connection to the terminal, and/or the seal between the
battery case and the terminal.  Carelessly tightening the
hardware/fasteners to assemble these items to the battery terminal is
a common way of inflicting damage on the battery as well.  I know I
have been involved in some service situations where there was more
stress on the Class T Fuse than I would like to see, but as best I
know there have not been any fuse failures because of it.

Thanks for bringing up this question!

Best regards,

MATT

Matthew Sirum
P.O. Box 1227
Greenfield, MA 01302-1227  USA
phone: +1.413.773.0611
email: matthewsi...@gmail.com


 Original Message Below 

[RE-wrenches] Third Radian

William Miller william at millersolar.com
Tue Apr 25 23:03:03 PDT 2017

Matt:

I have a question for you:  I have often considered mounting Class T fuses
directly to a bus bar as you have done.  Are you ever worried about physical
strain on the fuse itself without a fuse holder?

Thanks again for all of your input.

William Miller

Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Third Radian ---> Class T Fuse With/Without Fuse Holder

[Tump]

I have seen these conduit boxes torch off, like to see and have in free air. 
Supporting battery cable makes more sense then the hassle of installing this is 
a LB.
T
> On Apr 27, 2017, at 7:41 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches
> In the event you or some else installed a Class T fuse and you want to 
> protect it a little more from cable stress, installing it inside a PVC C 
> conduit body and cover and fastening the cables to the fuse inside that, this 
> will protect the fuse from stress and metallic contact and you can put a 
> label on it stating size and type.
> Jerry
> 
> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 6:05 PM, Matthew Sirum  > wrote:
> Greetings William,
> 
> Good point.  This is something I always take into consideration.  I
> have used Class T Fuses in many situations with and without their fuse
> holders.  In the case of the installation shown in my custom DC Bus
> System pictures the wire/cable type and wire management avoid putting
> too much physical stress on the Class T Fuses.  The #4 AWG conductors
> are supported from above and apply very little stress on the fuses
> they connect to.  The 4/0 AWG cabling is Cobra X-Flex (fine stand,
> very flexible) and each of these conductors is secured a few inches
> from where they connect to their fuses.  Care was taken in making up
> these connection and they were all carefully adjusted and inspected to
> ensure they would not stress the fuses.  I feel really good about how
> it all came together.  The same care and attention will be needed
> whenever these connections are serviced and the fasteners are
> torqued/tightened.  When well planned and carefully assembled I do not
> have concern there will be any issues related to not using the fuse
> holder.  I also think about this another way as well...  Using the
> Class T Fuse Holder adds another 2 connections to the circuit.  I try
> to remind myself that more connections can equal more chance of
> issues...  Although, if a manufacturer of a Class T Fuse states the
> fuse holder must be used with their fuse there could be an NEC
> violation by not using it.
> 
> One thing to note about the use of these fuses in this installation is
> that they are supplemental over current protection (OCP).  Each
> positive (ungrounded) conductor connecting to this DC Bus System has a
> means of primary over current protection and disconnect on its
> opposite end.  The battery systems, the charge controllers, and the
> inverter/chargers all have circuit breaker disconnects on their
> respective positive circuit conductors connecting to this DC Bus
> System.  I have seen other folks build without having the needed
> appropriate means of disconnect and OCP; although most folk are
> probably more likely to include the primary OCP, but not consider the
> supplemental OCP.  The supplemental OCP (Class T Fuses) provide
> protection in the event of a fault or short in a circuit between the
> Bus System and the other OCP at the other equipment.
> 
> Like many folks I have installed and worked on battery systems where
> we install a Class T Fuse directly onto the positive terminal of the
> battery bank or via some form of busbar or connector etc.  In these
> cases not only do we need to take care not to stress the fuse, but the
> fuse itself (and added busbar/connector etc) can act like a lever and
> along with the mating cable lug(s) create too much stress on the
> battery terminal...  Potentially damaging the terminal, the inner
> battery connection to the terminal, and/or the seal between the
> battery case and the terminal.  Carelessly tightening the
> hardware/fasteners to assemble these items to the battery terminal is
> a common way of inflicting damage on the battery as well.  I know I
> have been involved in some service situations where there was more
> stress on the Class T Fuse than I would like to see, but as best I
> know there have not been any fuse failures because of it.
> 
> Thanks for bringing up this question!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> MATT
> 
> Matthew Sirum
> P.O. Box 1227
> Greenfield, MA 01302-1227  USA
> phone: +1.413.773.0611 
> email: matthewsi...@gmail.com 
> 
> 
>  Original Message Below 
> 
> [RE-wrenches] Third Radian
> 
> William Miller william at millersolar.com 
> Tue Apr 25 23:03:03 PDT 2017
> 
> Matt:
> 
> I have a question for you:  I have often considered mounting Class T fuses
> directly to a bus bar as you have done.  Are you ever worried about physical
> strain on the fuse itself without a fuse holder?
> 
> Thanks again for all of your input.
> 
> William Miller
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com 
> 805-438-5600 
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> 
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