Re: [RE-wrenches] outback grid tie help

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Jay,

I suspect the grid-tie sell function isn't quite working in the charge
controllers (if all strings are working correctly).  To test this, you can
try to force a bulk charge with the charge controllers.  The inverter
should try to maintain the sell voltage and you should see the wattage of
the array increase (if you do it during peak sun time).   You can do the
same test by putting the float voltage in the charge controllers a few
volts above the sell voltage.

You can also test the selling function; you could also lower the sell
voltage below the current battery bank voltage.  This should cause the sell
current to increase up to the max sell current parameter until the battery
bank voltage lowers to the offset voltage.

Of course firmware could be the issue.

One thing that has really helped us to make the Outback products work well
is to calibrate all battery voltages across devices.  That includes the
flexnet DC, which is a process described here:
https://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/documents/appnotes/fndc_field_cal_app_note.pdf

This calibration is especially important with Lithium drop in batteries.

Let us know what you find out



On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 8:01 PM Darryl Thayer  wrote:

> Hi Jay, here are my guesses:
> 1) Customer is using all the power (3.5 is not a large array)
> 2)  Per William Miller, the batteries are shot.
> 3) combination of 1 &2
> 4) Bulk voltage is too high, daily trying to go to bulk voltage drives the
> batteries to the grave.  Float voltage is too high, acting as a low charge,
> holding off sell.  The return amps never drop to an acceptable level.
> 5) What is the sell voltage?  Is it too high?
> I feel insecure in telling you my settings as I look to you as one of the
> top people in the field.
>
> On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jay  wrote:
>
>> I’ve had someone from application engineering at Outback check the
>> settings.
>>
>> All appear normal and correct.
>>
>> I’m going to be checking the deep setting on grid sell which is most
>> likely the culprit.
>>
>> Thanks for all the advice and I’ll let you all know what find.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Jul 19, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Jerry Shafer 
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Jay
>> In Optics RE
>> Mate 3S verify that the firmware is 1.4.6
>> under global charge are all switches "disabled"
>> in the GS AC Input "Grid",
>> Charger "Off",
>> "Grid Tie" set
>> Offset enable "Yes"
>> sell is up to you and battery manufacture
>> Jerry
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 1:44 PM jay  wrote:
>>
>>> HI All,
>>>
>>> I”m trying to diagnose the following system I didn’t install.
>>>
>>> 4 year old system grid tie battery back up.
>>>
>>> Radian 4048
>>> flexmax 80
>>> 3500 watts PV
>>> fndc
>>> it is on opticsRE
>>>
>>> The symptoms are that its not selling much at all.  Mostly when it is
>>> about 1kw max PV production and .8kw selling.  I have disconnected the FNDC
>>> and after that it did seem to work better.
>>>
>>> Usually it will sell a bit, then buy a bit then sell and so on.  Grid
>>> voltage is very constant at around 246vac.
>>>
>>> I’ve been through the settings a few times with tech support, made
>>> adjustments and for a while it was selling pretty normally, but again today
>>> 0 production, CC is at float.
>>>
>>> I have not been to the site, I was just trying to do this all by
>>> optics.  But I’m going to have to go.   I think there are 3 possible
>>> issues.
>>>
>>> 1. the customer has always thought the production is low.  And from what
>>> I’ve seen that is true.  This is in a very sunny place, no shade so with
>>> 3.5kw, 1kw is very low which I think they may have  a few strings of the
>>> array are not connected. However why that bothers me is that the VOC/VMP
>>> voltages are too close in looking at the CC.  Which leads me to think its
>>> been told to back off to the 1.0kw, by some setting, see #2. And its always
>>> around .8 selling and around 1kw output from the array.
>>>
>>> 2.  There is a programing issue.
>>>
>>> 3. There is a hardware issue.
>>>
>>>
>>> If someone wants to look at the site, I have the info and they can log
>>> in.
>>> Or if they want to provide settings for me to triple check, that would
>>> be great
>>> and
>>> if they have any ideas as to why its acting like it is, very much
>>> appreciated
>>> So far even though tech support has viewed in on Optics and have had
>>> some recommendations as to settings, its not fixed the issue.
>>>
>>> thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> jay
>>>
>>> peltz power
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
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>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] outback grid tie help

[Darryl Thayer]

Hi Jay, here are my guesses:
1) Customer is using all the power (3.5 is not a large array)
2)  Per William Miller, the batteries are shot.
3) combination of 1 &2
4) Bulk voltage is too high, daily trying to go to bulk voltage drives the
batteries to the grave.  Float voltage is too high, acting as a low charge,
holding off sell.  The return amps never drop to an acceptable level.
5) What is the sell voltage?  Is it too high?
I feel insecure in telling you my settings as I look to you as one of the
top people in the field.

On Mon, Jul 19, 2021 at 6:25 PM Jay  wrote:

> I’ve had someone from application engineering at Outback check the
> settings.
>
> All appear normal and correct.
>
> I’m going to be checking the deep setting on grid sell which is most
> likely the culprit.
>
> Thanks for all the advice and I’ll let you all know what find.
>
> Jay
>
> On Jul 19, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
> 
> Jay
> In Optics RE
> Mate 3S verify that the firmware is 1.4.6
> under global charge are all switches "disabled"
> in the GS AC Input "Grid",
> Charger "Off",
> "Grid Tie" set
> Offset enable "Yes"
> sell is up to you and battery manufacture
> Jerry
>
> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 1:44 PM jay  wrote:
>
>> HI All,
>>
>> I”m trying to diagnose the following system I didn’t install.
>>
>> 4 year old system grid tie battery back up.
>>
>> Radian 4048
>> flexmax 80
>> 3500 watts PV
>> fndc
>> it is on opticsRE
>>
>> The symptoms are that its not selling much at all.  Mostly when it is
>> about 1kw max PV production and .8kw selling.  I have disconnected the FNDC
>> and after that it did seem to work better.
>>
>> Usually it will sell a bit, then buy a bit then sell and so on.  Grid
>> voltage is very constant at around 246vac.
>>
>> I’ve been through the settings a few times with tech support, made
>> adjustments and for a while it was selling pretty normally, but again today
>> 0 production, CC is at float.
>>
>> I have not been to the site, I was just trying to do this all by optics.
>> But I’m going to have to go.   I think there are 3 possible issues.
>>
>> 1. the customer has always thought the production is low.  And from what
>> I’ve seen that is true.  This is in a very sunny place, no shade so with
>> 3.5kw, 1kw is very low which I think they may have  a few strings of the
>> array are not connected. However why that bothers me is that the VOC/VMP
>> voltages are too close in looking at the CC.  Which leads me to think its
>> been told to back off to the 1.0kw, by some setting, see #2. And its always
>> around .8 selling and around 1kw output from the array.
>>
>> 2.  There is a programing issue.
>>
>> 3. There is a hardware issue.
>>
>>
>> If someone wants to look at the site, I have the info and they can log
>> in.
>> Or if they want to provide settings for me to triple check, that would be
>> great
>> and
>> if they have any ideas as to why its acting like it is, very much
>> appreciated
>> So far even though tech support has viewed in on Optics and have had some
>> recommendations as to settings, its not fixed the issue.
>>
>> thanks in advance,
>>
>> jay
>>
>> peltz power
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] outback grid tie help

[Jay]

I’ve had someone from application engineering at Outback check the settings. 

All appear normal and correct. 

I’m going to be checking the deep setting on grid sell which is most likely the 
culprit. 

Thanks for all the advice and I’ll let you all know what find. 

Jay

> On Jul 19, 2021, at 4:11 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jay
> In Optics RE
> Mate 3S verify that the firmware is 1.4.6
> under global charge are all switches "disabled"
> in the GS AC Input "Grid", 
> Charger "Off", 
> "Grid Tie" set 
> Offset enable "Yes"
> sell is up to you and battery manufacture
> Jerry
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 1:44 PM jay  wrote:
>> HI All,
>> 
>> I”m trying to diagnose the following system I didn’t install.
>> 
>> 4 year old system grid tie battery back up.
>> 
>> Radian 4048
>> flexmax 80
>> 3500 watts PV
>> fndc
>> it is on opticsRE
>> 
>> The symptoms are that its not selling much at all.  Mostly when it is about 
>> 1kw max PV production and .8kw selling.  I have disconnected the FNDC and 
>> after that it did seem to work better.  
>> 
>> Usually it will sell a bit, then buy a bit then sell and so on.  Grid 
>> voltage is very constant at around 246vac. 
>> 
>> I’ve been through the settings a few times with tech support, made 
>> adjustments and for a while it was selling pretty normally, but again today 
>> 0 production, CC is at float.  
>> 
>> I have not been to the site, I was just trying to do this all by optics.  
>> But I’m going to have to go.   I think there are 3 possible issues.  
>> 
>> 1. the customer has always thought the production is low.  And from what 
>> I’ve seen that is true.  This is in a very sunny place, no shade so with 
>> 3.5kw, 1kw is very low which I think they may have  a few strings of the 
>> array are not connected. However why that bothers me is that the VOC/VMP 
>> voltages are too close in looking at the CC.  Which leads me to think its 
>> been told to back off to the 1.0kw, by some setting, see #2. And its always 
>> around .8 selling and around 1kw output from the array. 
>> 
>> 2.  There is a programing issue.  
>> 
>> 3. There is a hardware issue.
>> 
>> 
>> If someone wants to look at the site, I have the info and they can log in.  
>> Or if they want to provide settings for me to triple check, that would be 
>> great
>> and 
>> if they have any ideas as to why its acting like it is, very much 
>> appreciated 
>> So far even though tech support has viewed in on Optics and have had some 
>> recommendations as to settings, its not fixed the issue.
>> 
>> thanks in advance,
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>> peltz power
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> 
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> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] outback grid tie help

[Jerry Shafer]

Jay
In Optics RE
Mate 3S verify that the firmware is 1.4.6
under global charge are all switches "disabled"
in the GS AC Input "Grid",
Charger "Off",
"Grid Tie" set
Offset enable "Yes"
sell is up to you and battery manufacture
Jerry

On Sun, Jul 18, 2021 at 1:44 PM jay  wrote:

> HI All,
>
> I”m trying to diagnose the following system I didn’t install.
>
> 4 year old system grid tie battery back up.
>
> Radian 4048
> flexmax 80
> 3500 watts PV
> fndc
> it is on opticsRE
>
> The symptoms are that its not selling much at all.  Mostly when it is
> about 1kw max PV production and .8kw selling.  I have disconnected the FNDC
> and after that it did seem to work better.
>
> Usually it will sell a bit, then buy a bit then sell and so on.  Grid
> voltage is very constant at around 246vac.
>
> I’ve been through the settings a few times with tech support, made
> adjustments and for a while it was selling pretty normally, but again today
> 0 production, CC is at float.
>
> I have not been to the site, I was just trying to do this all by optics.
> But I’m going to have to go.   I think there are 3 possible issues.
>
> 1. the customer has always thought the production is low.  And from what
> I’ve seen that is true.  This is in a very sunny place, no shade so with
> 3.5kw, 1kw is very low which I think they may have  a few strings of the
> array are not connected. However why that bothers me is that the VOC/VMP
> voltages are too close in looking at the CC.  Which leads me to think its
> been told to back off to the 1.0kw, by some setting, see #2. And its always
> around .8 selling and around 1kw output from the array.
>
> 2.  There is a programing issue.
>
> 3. There is a hardware issue.
>
>
> If someone wants to look at the site, I have the info and they can log
> in.
> Or if they want to provide settings for me to triple check, that would be
> great
> and
> if they have any ideas as to why its acting like it is, very much
> appreciated
> So far even though tech support has viewed in on Optics and have had some
> recommendations as to settings, its not fixed the issue.
>
> thanks in advance,
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] outback grid tie help

[jay]

HI Kirpal,

This sure seems like a real possibility.  

I don’t know that there have been any firmware updates.  I know its one REV 
behind, but tech support didn’t think that was an issue.  

As to the installer menu, does anyone know where I can find a map/menu of all 
the options?

thx

jay

> On Jul 18, 2021, at 7:46 PM, Kirpal  wrote:
> 
> Hi Jay.  We had a similar situation arise once after we updated the firmware 
> of a 4048 radian.  The inverter was a circa 2015 unit.  After updating it 
> would only sell about 1/4 of the normal array output to the grid.  
> We talked to Chris at tech support and he had us go into the installer menu 
> and look up the max sell current and somehow the inverter firmware update had 
> changed a setting deep in the installer menu to limit sell amps.  It was a 
> menu which we had never been in.  Adjusting to the normal 16a of sell current 
> up from the 4A immediately corrected the issue.  
> Your problem sounds exactly like the one we experienced. 
> Did you update firmware recently?
> I believe you have to be on site to access the installer menu
> Chris is typically on the job at 6am pacific time and easy to get ahold of 
> earlyI recommend trying to get ahold of him to walk you thru the steps.  
> Best of luck.
> Kirpal 
> Oregon Solarworks 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jul 18, 2021, 12:26 PM jay  > wrote:
> HI All,
> 
> I”m trying to diagnose the following system I didn’t install.
> 
> 4 year old system grid tie battery back up.
> 
> Radian 4048
> flexmax 80
> 3500 watts PV
> fndc
> it is on opticsRE
> 
> The symptoms are that its not selling much at all.  Mostly when it is about 
> 1kw max PV production and .8kw selling.  I have disconnected the FNDC and 
> after that it did seem to work better.  
> 
> Usually it will sell a bit, then buy a bit then sell and so on.  Grid voltage 
> is very constant at around 246vac. 
> 
> I’ve been through the settings a few times with tech support, made 
> adjustments and for a while it was selling pretty normally, but again today 0 
> production, CC is at float.  
> 
> I have not been to the site, I was just trying to do this all by optics.  But 
> I’m going to have to go.   I think there are 3 possible issues.  
> 
> 1. the customer has always thought the production is low.  And from what I’ve 
> seen that is true.  This is in a very sunny place, no shade so with 3.5kw, 
> 1kw is very low which I think they may have  a few strings of the array are 
> not connected. However why that bothers me is that the VOC/VMP voltages are 
> too close in looking at the CC.  Which leads me to think its been told to 
> back off to the 1.0kw, by some setting, see #2. And its always around .8 
> selling and around 1kw output from the array. 
> 
> 2.  There is a programing issue.  
> 
> 3. There is a hardware issue.
> 
> 
> If someone wants to look at the site, I have the info and they can log in.  
> Or if they want to provide settings for me to triple check, that would be 
> great
> and 
> if they have any ideas as to why its acting like it is, very much appreciated 
> So far even though tech support has viewed in on Optics and have had some 
> recommendations as to settings, its not fixed the issue.
> 
> thanks in advance,
> 
> jay
> 
> peltz power
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
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