Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

I have seen repeat melting and freezing rip the frames from the modules,
granted these modules were not sealed or glued in. But just consider if
water can get in a rail and  freeze then any extruded frames with inclosed
channels can be effected. Option is to drill the boxed channel to promote
drainage. Once the rail is weakened or warped then what was holding the
glass in is no longer and then the glass failed without the support. So if
you have a ground mount then tilt it to vertical.

On Sun, Mar 27, 2022, 9:52 AM Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi Blake,
>
> I'm curious why the assumption that the snow will destroy the array - how
> about 3 rails instead of 2 under the modules?
>
> Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches 
> March 26, 2022 at 8:39 AM
> Hi all,
>
> I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions.
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking systems
> to allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical position) or
> "seasonal removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the winter (snow)
> season?  Or ideas for a completely different approach to solving the
> challenge I'm facing?
>
> I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a
> small commercial community center facility.  The facility is accessible and
> in use only during the summer months.  So, I want to optimize production
> for the summer, and also avoid having the array destroyed by the heavy
> Sierra snow during the winter.
>
> To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints:
>
> - System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods)
> - Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely surrounding
> all roof options)
> - Must be relatively low profile, visually.  Pole mount not an option
> - Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6
> arrays (13' x 45')
> - Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile)
>
> There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to
> "stow" the array each season as long as that process is relatively
> straightforward.
>
> At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and
> un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath the
> nearby deck for the winter.  I'd like to think there might be a more
> "elegant" solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and tear on the
> modules over the years).  I wondered if there's a clever way to "drop" the
> modules to a near-vertical orientation so they could remain in place during
> the winter (some kind of hinge at the top and release at the bottom).  I
> guess this might require individual rows of modules instead of one large
> array.
>
> (As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) operational
> through the winter for battery maintenance and a few incidental loads.
> These could be vertically mounted on the south side of one of the
> buildings, above the typical snow drift level, for example.)
>
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that
> haven't worked, etc!!
>
> Best,
> Blake
>
> --
>
> Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner
> Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence
> O: 510-845-2997 x128
> C: 510-867-5878
>
> 1035 Folger Ave.
> Berkeley, CA 94710
> www.sunlightandpower.com
> License #326203
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Battery Rack Options

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Hey Michael,

Any chance you might share a couple of pictures of the project you
discussed?

Christopher

On Sun, Mar 27, 2022 at 11:44 AM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> We almost always use the AES brackets. Often mounted to strut. You want
> access to the on/off button, so some exposed conductor is inevitable. We
> have also fabricated shelves for them to sit on. For 2 or more batteries in
> multiples of two, we stack them so that the bottom battery has its
> terminals facing up, and the top battery with terminals facing down. With
> large banks, like the one we are currently building with we placed both a
> 10" X 10" X 20' long gutter with 3/8" x 4" bussbars running the entire
> length, and for comms (2) 2.5" X 2.5" x 20" gutters(top and bottom) between
> the upper and lower stacks of batteries. Cables wrap back and into the back
> of the gutters. It's very clean. In a few instances, we have left the
> batteries sitting on the pallet bases they shipped on when budgets are
> super tight or no wall space is available.
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 6:28 AM Chris Sparadeo 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Wrenches,
>>
>> Wondering how people are installing the Discover AES. I get that they can
>> be floor or wall mounted, but I'm trying to avoid exposed conductors and a
>> rack seems like the best option. Any insights?
>>
>> Kindly,
>>
>> Chris Sparadeo
>>
>> ___
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>
> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
> mjmornings...@gmail.com
>
>
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7

[Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches]

Hello, Sorry to be so late but I have been overloaded.  Just a note on
physics of lifting water.  The calculation indicates if you pump 1 gallon
per minute up 300 feet it required a water hp of 5 HP
Use this base number and good pumps are about 70% efficient.  If the flow
rate is not 1 GPM adjust the HP accordingly.  For example, if you want to
pump 10 GPM it requires 50 HP  or if you want to pump 10 Gallons / day it
requires (50HP/ 24h 60min )requiring 0,035 HP..
Again I apologize for delay.

On Wed, Mar 16, 2022 at 1:33 AM William Miller 
wrote:

> Hilton:
>
> A valid point.  However in this region wells often do not recharge as well
> as we might like.  In these cases, to meet gallons per day you have to pump
> long and slow--more hours per day than the sun will be up.  That means of
> course generator or battery storage.
>
> The economics have shifted from when I started installing direct-DC water
> pumping.  The money that is being spent today to provide commercial ag
> water
> is beyond what I would have comprehended back then.  This means new
> technology--and questions need to be asked, including considering battery
> storage.
>
> Thanks for your reply.
>
> William
>
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Hilton Dier
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2022 6:56 PM
> To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Water Pumping 24/7
>
> Here’s a lateral take on this. A 500 gallon poly water tank is far cheaper
> than the batteries needed to fill it.
>
> Years ago I rigged up a seasonal pump system for a man who had two ponds on
> his property. The lower one was well fed by a spring but the upper one
> wasn’t.
> I used a 200 watt DC piston pump and a couple of modules with a linear
> current booster. A couple of breakers but no batteries. It just chugged
> away
> quietly all (moderately sunny) day, filling the upper pond.
>
> Using a positive displacement pump is key for minimizing power
> requirements.
> At 300 feet that’s about 125 psi, which is not out of line for a piston
> pump. Fill a big poly tank and pressurize it with a small DC diaphragm pump
> if necessary.
>
> Simple, efficient, cheap.
>
> Hilton Dier III
> Renewable Energy Design
> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC
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[RE-wrenches] Admin Post, do not respond on list

[Michael Welch via RE-wrenches]

Hello Wrenches. Contact me off list with any questions or concerns.

I'm experimenting with new list server settings, as google had recently been 
rejecting list messages going to gmail addresses.

I think I've got it mostly squared away, but have a couple of concerns I'm 
figuring out.

As I've mentioned in the past, for replying to the list, it's best to use 
"Reply" and not "Reply to All." And for reply emails that should go to the 
individual and not the list, edit to replace the list address with the 
individual's address.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter?

[George McClellan via RE-wrenches]

Good afternoon;

Mounting modules on 3 rails will typically increase the load carrying capacity 
of the array by 30% (or more).  Most module manufacturers list this method in 
their installation manuals, or if not in the manual, they have a waiver written 
for that method.

Be aware that when mounting modules in a heavy snow load region that highest 
static snow load will be concentrated on the lowest module rail in the array.  
If you mount modules in landscape configuration the load will be concentrated 
on a long side rail and this can sometimes lead to loads above what that rail 
can carry.  The bottom rail may require extra support, or consider shifting to 
portrait mount.

George McClellan | Technical Sales Manager | REC Solar US
+1 805 704 3226 | www.recgroup.com

On Mar 27, 2022, at 9:52 AM, Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

 Hi Blake,

I'm curious why the assumption that the snow will destroy the array - how about 
3 rails instead of 2 under the modules?

Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches
March 26, 2022 at 8:39 AM
Hi all,

I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions.

I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking systems to 
allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical position) or "seasonal 
removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the winter (snow) season?  Or ideas 
for a completely different approach to solving the challenge I'm facing?

I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a small 
commercial community center facility.  The facility is accessible and in use 
only during the summer months.  So, I want to optimize production for the 
summer, and also avoid having the array destroyed by the heavy Sierra snow 
during the winter.

To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints:

- System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods)
- Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely surrounding all 
roof options)
- Must be relatively low profile, visually.  Pole mount not an option
- Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6 arrays 
(13' x 45')
- Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile)

There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to "stow" 
the array each season as long as that process is relatively straightforward.

At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and 
un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath the nearby 
deck for the winter.  I'd like to think there might be a more "elegant" 
solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and tear on the modules over 
the years).  I wondered if there's a clever way to "drop" the modules to a 
near-vertical orientation so they could remain in place during the winter (some 
kind of hinge at the top and release at the bottom).  I guess this might 
require individual rows of modules instead of one large array.

(As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) operational 
through the winter for battery maintenance and a few incidental loads.  These 
could be vertically mounted on the south side of one of the buildings, above 
the typical snow drift level, for example.)

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that haven't 
worked, etc!!

Best,
Blake

--


Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner
Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence
O: 510-845-2997 x128
C: 510-867-5878

1035 Folger Ave.
Berkeley, CA 94710
www.sunlightandpower.com
License #326203


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Ideas and racking systems for "stowing" ground mount PV array during snowy winter?

[Jeff Clearwater via RE-wrenches]

Hi Blake,

I'm curious why the assumption that the snow will destroy the array - 
how about 3 rails instead of 2 under the modules?



Blake Gleason via RE-wrenches 
March 26, 2022 at 8:39 AM
Hi all,

I think there's a lot of experience on this list with PV in snowy regions.

I'm wondering if anyone has ideas and/or specific hardware/racking 
systems to allow for easy "stowing" (in vertical or near-vertical 
position) or "seasonal removal" of the ground mount PV modules for the 
winter (snow) season?  Or ideas for a completely different approach to 
solving the challenge I'm facing?


I'm planning a new off-grid system in the Sierra (around 6000') for a 
small commercial community center facility.  The facility is 
accessible and in use only during the summer months.  So, I want to 
optimize production for the summer, and also avoid having the array 
destroyed by the heavy Sierra snow during the winter.


To further paint the picture, here are some more details and constraints:

- System size: 23kW (likely 48 Silfab 490 mods)
- Must be ground mount (beautiful very tall trees completely 
surrounding all roof options)

- Must be relatively low profile, visually.  Pole mount not an option
- Ideally one clean rectangular array 4x12 mods (13' x 90') or two 4x6 
arrays (13' x 45')

- Array tilt: 10-15 deg (summer use only, must be low-profile)

There is a caretaker who has a seasonal crew, and could be trained to 
"stow" the array each season as long as that process is relatively 
straightforward.


At one end of the spectrum, it could be as simple as disconnecting and 
un-installing all of the modules to store them in a stack underneath 
the nearby deck for the winter.  I'd like to think there might be a 
more "elegant" solution (and less labor intensive, and less wear and 
tear on the modules over the years).  I wondered if there's a clever 
way to "drop" the modules to a near-vertical orientation so they could 
remain in place during the winter (some kind of hinge at the top and 
release at the bottom).  I guess this might require individual rows of 
modules instead of one large array.


(As a bonus, I'd like to keep about four mods (out of the 48) 
operational through the winter for battery maintenance and a few 
incidental loads.  These could be vertically mounted on the south side 
of one of the buildings, above the typical snow drift level, for example.)


Thanks in advance for any suggestions, ideas, things you've tried that 
haven't worked, etc!!


Best,
Blake

--

Blake Gleason, PE | Employee Owner
Director of Innovation and Technical Excellence
O: 510-845-2997 x128
C: 510-867-5878

1035 Folger Ave.
Berkeley, CA 94710
www.sunlightandpower.com 
License #326203



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Battery Rack Options

[Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches]

We almost always use the AES brackets. Often mounted to strut. You want
access to the on/off button, so some exposed conductor is inevitable. We
have also fabricated shelves for them to sit on. For 2 or more batteries in
multiples of two, we stack them so that the bottom battery has its
terminals facing up, and the top battery with terminals facing down. With
large banks, like the one we are currently building with we placed both a
10" X 10" X 20' long gutter with 3/8" x 4" bussbars running the entire
length, and for comms (2) 2.5" X 2.5" x 20" gutters(top and bottom) between
the upper and lower stacks of batteries. Cables wrap back and into the back
of the gutters. It's very clean. In a few instances, we have left the
batteries sitting on the pallet bases they shipped on when budgets are
super tight or no wall space is available.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 6:28 AM Chris Sparadeo 
wrote:

> Hi Wrenches,
>
> Wondering how people are installing the Discover AES. I get that they can
> be floor or wall mounted, but I'm trying to avoid exposed conductors and a
> rack seems like the best option. Any insights?
>
> Kindly,
>
> Chris Sparadeo
>
> ___
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>

-- 

Michael Morningstar


Morningstar Electric

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

mjmornings...@gmail.com
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