Re: [RE-wrenches] No payment for Sunpower warranty service vendor credits?

[Sky Sims via RE-wrenches]

Darryl,SolArk can do TOU, I’ve reached out to their tech support a few times without issue this year. Actually designing a system that can work with Ford Lightning battery backup and have been considering their product as part of the final design. Sky SimsHttps://EcologicalSystems.org732-462-3858On Feb 13, 2024, at 7:44 PM, Tom McCalmont via RE-wrenches  wrote:I agree with Peter.  We have used Sol-Ark inverters, and they work well and they provide good support (although you may have to wait for a response).Sunpower is on the verge of bankruptcy:SunPower Stock Plunges as It Warns That Debt Could Threaten Businessinvestopedia.comTom McCalmontPaired PowerOn Feb 13, 2024, at 4:34 PM, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches  wrote:Darryl   Sol-ark should always get back to you, as they do me. They have made a constant effort to  grow and train their support staff but are usually slammed. Sol-Ark 12’s and 15” will do TOU. Call them, if you cannot get in the que leave a message, they will get back to you. Just have to be patient sometimes.    ThxPeter GirouxAmerican SolarNorcross Ga   From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenchesSent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 6:37 PMTo: RE-wrenches Cc: Darryl Thayer Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] No payment for Sunpower warranty service vendor credits? Advice, please; I was about to purchase a SunPower inverter. Have other people been having problems? I cannot reach their support line with my questions. As many of you know, I am a small contractor. I have noticed a reluctance of solar equipment suppliers, both Outback and Sol-Ark, who have recently stopped answering my questions. I have sent many email questions to their support line without a response.  Two examples: can the Outback Radian do TOU? It can not! yet they assured me it could.  I asked for the possibility of a workaround, and their response was, to read the manual.  Can the Sol-Ark do TOU this under my utility rules?  I think it could but I can not get them to confirm.  They also will not respond to my questions, On Tue, Feb 13, 2024 at 4:25 PM Solar Energy Solutions via RE-wrenches  wrote:Hi Daniel,  after three months of back-and-forth we have finally received a replacement panel from SunPower and getting ready to affect repair. Are you saying we are going to have a hard time getting compensated for our services?  Andrew KoyaanisqatsiPresidentSolar Energy Solutions, Inc.The BRIGHT CHOICE Since 1987, helping you and your Portland neighbors move towards an environmentally sustainable future.503-238-4502www.SolarEnergyOregon.comOn Feb 13, 2024, at 2:38 PM, Daniel via RE-wrenches  wrote:If you are doing warranty work for Sunpower for non leased systems, you may be like many other solar companies that are not getting vendor service payments for the work you are doing.  If this sounds familiar to an experience you have or are having please contact me.  I am trying to aggregate those that are having this experience and see if we can get a larger collective force together and see if we can move them for payments before they are extinct.  ThanksDaniel Daniel Tittmann Greenwiredwww.greenwired.comdan...@greenwired.com707-206-5088  ___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches

Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Re: Cantilevered array

[Sky Sims via RE-wrenches]

I’ve designed and installed several thousand cantilevered arrays over the last three decades and never had a single issue. Unfortunately, code changes have taken a turn for the worse in most jurisdictions and oftentimes disallow cantilevering. Sky SimsHttps://EcologicalSystems.org732-462-3858On Jan 19, 2024, at 3:09 PM, Christopher Warfel via RE-wrenches  wrote:

  

  
  
I've done a fair amount of roof mounted solar
structural compliance, and I would say that the cantilevered
design looks like a disaster waiting to happen. You could not
use conventional solar racking products.  Chris





On 1/13/2024 12:42 PM, William Miller
  via RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  
  
  
Drake
 
My
earlier reply may have been a bit facetious.  What I meant
by it was that big-box solar contractors can be lazy when it
comes to solar design.  They will rely totally on satellite
imagery and not check the design on the ground.  This is how
you get solar proposed for shaded areas, where skylights and
roof vents are located, or overhanging thin air.  This may
be what is happening in the image you shared.  
 
What
is unique here is someone actually specified overhanging
panels.  Looking more closely at the image, a roof outline
is shown but it is not clear that the outline is actually
situated over a building.  It almost looks like there is
landscaped area inside the outline.
 
The
solution of course is to get on out there, measure the roof
and any obstructions and analyze the shading.  I use the Sun Seeker app for IOS for the
shading analysis.
 
William
 

  Miller
  Solar
  17395
  Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
  805-438-5600
  www.millersolar.com
  CA
  Lic. 773985
   

 

  
From:
RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
On Behalf Of Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2024 8:47 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Re: Cantilevered
array
  

 
 

  

  
 
  
  
 
  


  
 
  
  
 
  


  
 
  
  
 
  


  
 
  
  
 
  

  


  
Here is a
larger snip of the situation.
 

Label
says overhang from upper roof. 
 
Drake
  Chamberlin
Athens
  Electric LLC
Ohio
  Electrical Contractor’s License 44810
NABCEP
  Certified PV Installation Professional
 

  ---
  
 
  

 
On
2024-01-12 07:29, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

  

  

  Are
  you sure that's what you're looking at? To me,
  that looks like there was an addition made to
  the house, and maybe it's a multi-pitch roof.
  That lower part might be a covered wrap-around
  porch.


  

  
  Jason Szumlanski 
  
Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design
Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional
(PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor
CVC56956
  

  

  
   
  

  On
  Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 5:59 PM Drake Chamber

Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA alternative?

[Sky Sims via RE-wrenches]

Fronius is a quality string level inverter with strong tech support, warranty 
and service. 

Sky Sims
Https://EcologicalSystems.biz

> On Sep 29, 2022, at 2:53 PM, Hilton Dier via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Esteemed Wrenches,
> 
> I am a long time fan and installer of SMA string inverters. I have a project 
> right now which is a ground mounted array of 12 Trina 380s, so just over 4.5 
> kW. 
> 
> SMA inverters seem to be unavailable for the foreseeable future. What would 
> be your recommendations for an alternative? I know it’s unfashionable, but 
> I’m not a fan of micro inverters. 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Hilton Dier III
> Renewable Energy Design
> Missisquoi River Hydro LLC
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SWWP Whisper200 Grid Tie inverter

[Sky Sims]

SMA used to make a sunny wind, you could check and see if those are still 
available in the US

Sky Sims
Https://EcologicalSystems.biz

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 4:31 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:
> 
> 
> Jeremy; As far as I know, SMA, ABB and Ginlong have all ceased production of 
> their direct grid-tie wind inverters. You might talk to the folks at Voltsys 
> (https://www.voltsys.com/), I believe they make units into which you can 
> program the turbine's power curve, that produce a DC output compatible with 
> most solar inverters. I have not used them, but it's worth a try.
> Dan Fink
> Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
> IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
> NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
> NABCEP PV Associate
> danbo...@gmail.com
> 970-672-4342
> 
>  
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 2:15 PM Jeremy Coxon  
>> wrote:
>> I have a customer that would like to convert an off grid system with 
>> batteries to straight grid tie w/o storage (grid power just became 
>> available).  So I’m hoping someone on this list might know of an option to 
>> convert a SWWP Whisper 200 (with controller) to grid tie operation?  I found 
>> a company in Africa that says they have a unit, but haven’t had any response.
>> 
>> Best Regards,
>> Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21
>> MWBE Certified
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] IMO's Fire Raptor

[Sky Sims]

We’ve put in a few hundred fire raptors so far and have no failures on any of 
their units yet. But we’ve only been using them for a year and what 
compensation do they offer 10years from now if the unit fails and doubles the 
customers out of pocket on the system installation? 

Sky Sims
EcologicalSystems.biz

> On Aug 29, 2021, at 9:20 PM, Nick A Lucchese  wrote:
> 
> Have many of you had success with the Fire Raptor products approved for 
> Outback? MLSD is a hassle for sure and I’m no fonder of it than the rest of 
> you but meanwhile a few of my near term off grid installations will be 
> needing a solution. I’ve been dragging my feet submitting a permit package 
> for an upcoming off grid project and at the moment it still seems like the 
> Fire Raptor is the best option from what I can tell. Brad Bassett from AEE 
> had confirmed my suspicion of simplicity and sent me a diagram a bit ago with 
> a 48 to 24vdc converter and relay in place of the traditional AC keep alive 
> converter. Product reliability and future surprises aside, it seems like a 
> fairly basic product to integrate. The client is seriously considering a 
> large carport in place of the house for the PV structure so I’m hoping I can 
> dodge yet another MLSD project but I doubt I’m going to get that lucky. From 
> what I know about IMO’s history in industrial controls it seems like the best 
> option to pair with Outback’s offerings to meet compliance these days.
> 
> Thanks for the collective wisdom as always, Nick A Lucchese
> 
> 
> now back to the exploding RSD unit thread…...
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Exploding RSD Unit

[Sky Sims]

It’s good to see everyone waking up to the dangers of RSD. This last code cycle 
has been a complete disaster for solar, between RSD and these obscene set back 
requirements for solar panels on the roof, it really looks like residential 
solar is under attack by hostile forces, driving up costs and making our 
installers less safe and the solar systems less reliable.

Sky Sims
EcologicalSystems.biz

> On Aug 29, 2021, at 10:39 AM, jay  wrote:
> 
> There is another agency here that needs to be looked at, and that is UL.
> 
> UL is probably the agency that has done the testing design etc to make sure 
> that this product won’t do what it just did. 
> 
> Its possible the testing design is quite good and the issue was due to poor 
> manufacturing, or due to a faulty part or due to faulty testing at the 
> factory before shipping.  
> 
> The argument that we will be getting rid of RSD is 2+ code cycles away at the 
> soonest, were it to even happen which I highly doubt.  
> 
> So in the mean time, we need to make sure that whoever is in charge of the 
> testing/safety certification gets their shit together.
> 
> jay
> 
> peltz power
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown

[Sky Sims]

I don't see any indications that MLSD is making solar safer. It's
increasing system cost and maintenance expense but the safety benefits
haven't revealed themselves to me yet. Adding all the extra components
increases the risk of failure in the system and increases the time our
technicians have to spend on the roof. This extra time on the roof reduces
overall safety for the installers. Also as per lussers' law, the system is
only as reliable as the least reliable component times the reliability of
all the other components in the system. By doubling the number of
connections with MLSD we're increasing the likelyhood of system failure and
exposing ourselves to a potential for increased downtime and lower
productivity, this means a technician may have to spend more time on the
roof dealing with maintenance issues and less time bringing more production
online. Additionally, any potential safety benefit from MLSD hinges on the
product performing properly, and if that product fails (which we see
regularly) then it could create a false sense of safety for the people and
firefighters that makes them less safe than they would be if the MLSD was
not present at all.
With that said, I recently became aware of a product called PVSTOP that
looks like it may be a real solution to the concerns for firefighter safety
in the event of a fire, that actually guarantees the panels are
de-energized. Apparently it's been used in australia for some time now.
It's fairly inexpensive and the cost will likely come down further as they
continue to achieve economies of scale. https://www.pv-stop.com/

Your thoughts are appreciated,
Sky Sims
https://EcologicalSystems.org <https://ecologicalsystems.org>
732-462-3858  f)732-462-3962
"Just an old wrench"

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 11:55 AM jay  wrote:

> HI Andrew,
>
> I’ve been pondering your comments, and I hope you can elaborate on why you
> don’t think MLPE has anything to do with firefighter safety?
> And I guess I lump into the firefighter safety, homeowner safety as well.
>
> As to the code meeting.  I have it on pretty good info that a very senior
> member of the the NEC was pushing MLPE.  It is true that the string
> inverter OEM’s pushed back hard and that is why for the first time(?) a
> code rule had a 2 year delay in implantation of the NEC 2017.
>
> Thanks
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Solar Energy Solutions <
> solarenergysoluti...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I apologize for letting this conversation get a little stale before being
> able to comment further.
>
> Before I reply, I would like to say I don't believe MLSD has anything to
> do with firefighter safety.  If being on dangerous roofs was really a
> concern, steep roofs, slate roofs, metal roof, wet metal or shake roofs and
> snow on roofs would get the same kind of scrutiny as solar on roofs.  I can
> only guess and think that some HUGE solar hating utility company devised
> this whole firefighter safety thing.  It is also my understanding none of
> the string inverter folk turned up to the code development meetings where
> MLSD was determined and you can guess who was.But much of this is only
> rumor and the dark thoughts of a solar bozo.
>
> I HATE the hassle and maintenance issues of MLSD.  I loved string
> inverters and hated to see them go.  So far as I can tell the US is the
> only place on planet Earth to make String inverters all but illegal.  This
> said... a picture is worth a thousand words.  All of the attached photos of
> systems had the wire management done very well.  If you look at the metal
> roof photo you can see a small hole in it from the arc.  I have many more
> photos of different squirrel damaged systems.  Ground Fault protection has
> saved the inverters, but not the roofs.
>
> I don't really like the idea of squirrel guards.  It seems like I may be
> creating another problem down the road that I can't really imagine.  Debris
> build up could be an issue.  Rainwater could back up from a damn and get
> under shingles and into the cavity of the house.  For me the easiest thing
> that could be done is for some kind of a bittering agent to be part of the
> wires so that one little lick would send a critter looking for a better
> food source.
>
> Your Friendly Neighborhood Solar Man,
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0
> Fire 2.JPG <https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksd5yhfsammybdz/Fire%202.JPG?dl=0>
>
> Fire 2.JPG
> Shared with Dropbox
> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksd5yhfsammybdz/Fire%202.JPG?dl=0>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0
> Fire 3.JPG <https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtehaht4rlcrco7/Fire%203.JPG?dl=0>
>
> Fire 3.JPG
> S

Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown

[Sky Sims]

Ray,
That's a great point it seems like people are really concerned about
squirrels and I simply don't understand how adding more components and more
potential points of failure helps to address a potential rodent attack, If
anything it seems like MLSD just increases the amount of risk of damage
from animals. Your suggestion of exempting systems from the MLSD
requirement if they implement a rodent guard of some sort seems like a
reasonable middle ground that the industry has a lot of experience with
already.

Sky Sims
https://EcologicalSystems.org <https://ecologicalsystems.org>
732-462-3858  f)732-462-3962
"Just An Old Wrench"

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 5:26 PM Ray  wrote:

> Yes, I would like more info too.  I'm all about safety, but it needs to be
> based on reality not theory.  For instance, would string level shut down
> have stopped the arcs you mentioned?  Also, I second the screening.  Even
> if MLSD stops the fire, the rodents have still won the day by taking out
> part of the array.  How about an exemption from MLSD for systems below a
> certain voltage, and having animal guard in place, and those would still
> have string level shut down.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 1/29/21 3:58 PM, frenergy wrote:
>
> Andrew,
>
> If these are the only two examples of justification of MLSD
> and not knowing the details of the examples you've cited, I suggest there
> is a more effective, equal in labor to apply, less expensive, durable
> solution.  For the squirrel problem, an alternate solution is one of the
> available edge of array screen products.  Not only does it stop the
> squirrels but it works for mice, leaves, pine needles, etc.
>
> Can you enlighten us about the cause of the resi fires that
> were caused from the lack of MLSD's?  Poor wire management? And was the
> hole in the metal roof caused by the squirrel having lunch on the wiring?
>
> I feel it worth diving into this deeper for a variety of
> reasons.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net
>
> On 1/29/2021 11:56 AM, Solar Energy Solutions wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I have been an outspoken critic of module level shutdown for all the
> reasons folks do.  However, I have come around.  We have witnessed too many
> systems where rooftop wiring has been chewed up by critters... mostly
> squirrels.  We have seen everything from residential fires to holes in
> metal roofs caused by a DC arc.   I never thought I would see the day when
> I would not only be thinking MLSD is a good idea but advocating for it.
>
> Smiles,
>
> *Andrew Koyaanisqatsi*
> *President*
>
>
> *Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. The BRIGHT CHOICE *
> *Since 1987,*
> * helping you and your Portland neighbors move** towards an
> environmentally sustainable future.*
>
> *503-238-4502 www.SolarEnergyOregon.com
> <http://www.solarenergyoregon.com/> *
>
>
> On Friday, January 29, 2021, 11:25:28 AM PST, s...@ecologicalsystems.biz
>   wrote:
>
>
> So far the module level shutdown requirements have been a real blow to our
> industry. The reliability and cost from a maintenance and installation
> standpoint has been very hit or miss so far. It feels like this requirement
> was rolled out far too quickly without enough forethought to its impact on
> the industry. We are constantly going out and fixing problems with mlsd
> installed by other contractors. Thankfully the problems have nothing to do
> with the quality of the installations. The problems are almost all due to
> premature failure of the products or some inherent defect in them. This is
> a serious issue costing the industry time and resources and making our
> installers less safe. It just doesn’t really accomplish the intended goal
> of the requirement.
> I’m curious how other wrenches are dealing with this issue. I recently
> became aware of fixMLSD.com which appears to be focused on bringing a more
> sensible approach to this requirement.
>
> Your thoughts are appreciated,
> Sky Sims
> Https://EcologicalSystems.biz
> “Just An Old Wrench”
> ___
>
> --
>
>
>
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>
> _

Re: [RE-wrenches] Rapid Shutdown Compliance

[Sky Sims]

So far rapid shutdown has been a nightmare. It’s added a lot of cost for no 
measurable benefit.
Using always off devices like midnight solar and Tigo makes it impossible to 
test open circuit voltages. Which opens the door to tons of problems when 
commissioning systems. 
Also we’ve been trying out midnight Solar’s product and have had an absurd 
failure rate. Which means lots of truck rolls and troubleshooting and system 
downtime. They send replacement product but they aren’t paying for the lost 
weeks of productivity.
We have Tigo product in hand and are deciding which project to try it on. But 
our big concern about using it is not only the inability to confirm open 
circuit voltage of the strings but also the way panels bypass if the device 
doesn’t allow the panel to connect properly. Both of these features are a 
recipe for problems and potential troubleshooting nightmares. The warranty from 
Tigo doesn’t cover our expense if the product fails. And that’s really what our 
reservations about the product boil down to right now. If we’re on a job with 
50 units and one fails, the contractor or the homeowner will be the ones eating 
the expense of finding it and replacing it. There has to be a better option. 

Sky Sims
Https://EcologicalSystems.biz

> On Apr 28, 2020, at 7:46 PM, Corey Shalanski  wrote:
> 
> 
> Now that 690.12 of the NEC 2017 has been in effect for several years, I am 
> curious how designers and installers are meeting the associated requirements 
> with string inverter-based systems (*not* considering microinverters or DC 
> optimizers). I am generally a fan of the KISS principle, and as best I can 
> determine the Tigo TS4-F device is one of the simplest options currently 
> available on the market. What are others finding?
> 
> I'd love to hear about favored options for complying with rapid shutdown. Any 
> success stories? or better yet, any early failures?
> 
> --
> Corey Shalanski
> Jah Light Solar
> Portland, Jamaica
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Aftermarket monitoring

[Sky Sims]

Eguage should work well for that application 

Sky Sims
Https://EcologicalSystems.biz

> On Dec 9, 2019, at 10:28 AM, pgir...@mindspring.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Good morning fellow wrenchers. Looking for recommendations on an aftermarket 
> monitoring system. Commercial site, 208 and customer is putting back 3 times 
> as much as they are using. They want to know when they are putting back, when 
> they are buying and how much so we can design the right battery system to 
> power shave those times. Thanks in advance.
>  
> Peter Giroux
> American Solar & Alternative Energy Solutions
> Roswell Ga
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fed. 30% grant to businesses, 1603 arbitrary reduction of grants

[Sky Sims]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this. But many solar installation 
companies had their 1603 grants arbitrarily reduced, IF you or any solar 
company you know thinks that you might have been mistreated or had your grant 
amount reduced unfairly…. Please contact me off list, a legal firm is taking 
action. They’ve already won a major case and want to help other companies.

 

Sincerely,

Sky Sims

Ecological Systems

www.ecologicalsystems.biz <http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz/> 

220 CR 522

Manalapan, NJ 07726

732-462-3858  fax)732-462-3962

 

 

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[RE-wrenches] service call reimbursement

[Sky Sims]

Just found out the hard way that Solectria (now Yaskawa?) doesn't do service 
call reimbursement or cover downtime of their product during the warranty 
period. They promised the world when I was in the inverter selection process 
but once they get the equipment out the door apparently down time and the site 
visits spent fixing their product is their customers problem.  
We're thinking about switching inverter brands, which inverters have the best 
reimbursement policies right now? 
My experience has been:
SMA pay's $150 per inverter per truck roll(although it can be difficult 
collecting from them). 
ABB pays $150 (although it can be difficult to collecting from them)
Schneider Electric pays $150 (they've been really quick to pay anytime there is 
an issue)
Fronius pays $250 (they’ve been really quick to pay anytime there is an issue)

That's my list right now and when it comes to reimbursing installers for 
problems with their equipment during the warranty period Fronius looks like the 
big winner right now with Schneider coming in a close second.

My two cents,
Sky Sims
Ecological Systems

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA 1800u not generating power

[Sky Sims]

This is a known issue. I've come across a bunch of their inverters that have 
had this problem. In addition to seeing this issue on their 1800's I've seen it 
happen on their 2500's as well. Shows a solid green light but isn't putting out 
power. 
The first time I came across this issue they had a refurbishment program, where 
they would rebuild the inverter and send it back with a one year warranty for 
under $400. The refurbishment program was a great program that I hope they 
bring back someday.
The last few times I contacted SMA about one of these defective inverters, they 
said the product was not under warranty and they no longer supported it. Only 
option they gave was to buy a new unit. 

Sky Sims
Ecological Systems


> On Jul 24, 2015, at 5:49 AM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am looking at a 1800u from 2004 that has a green light and in mpp mode,  
> but Pac is zero. Grid and DC voltage are good.  No other indication of 
> problems. I saw Pac tick up to 2W a couple of times,  but that's it. It's 
> just not delivering AC power.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Sadly, it doesn't make much financial sense for the owner to replace it with 
> a current model, as the replacement cost would take almost 10 years to 
> recover with the small BIPV array connected to it. I'm hoping for a field 
> repair option.
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Demand charges for residential

[Sky Sims]

Peak and off peak rates are pretty typical on the east coast. Residential 
customers usually have to request that they be put on peak off peak billing. 
The fact that energy and transmission costs are usually substantially lower at 
night during off peak hours, is one of the reasons why utilities should be 
paying a higher premium for solar energy. Utilities are getting peak rate power 
at the point of use from solar facilities, which radically lowers their cost of 
supplying peak power. And then through net metering they give back cheap off 
peak power. The deal is currently lopsided in favor of power distribution 
companies. 
Srec's and feed in tariffs (FIT) have historically been used to compensate 
solar facilities for the added value they are providing. But FIT and Srec are 
best suited for compensating for the more complex (health and environmental) 
benefits of clean non-polluting energy production. The utility company should 
be passing through a portion of its distribution cost savings to the solar 
facility. If the solar energy passes through less than a mile of public grid 
and coal energy has to pass through 100miles of public grid, the utility 
company should be compensating that solar facility for the obviously reduced 
expense. Net metering is a start toward proper compensation, but it does not go 
far enough. 

Sky



> On May 2, 2015, at 10:59 PM, William Dorsett  wrote:
> 
> Jay, residential demand charges are becoming a big thing. The argument as I’m 
> sure you know, is that solar customers aren’t paying their share of the 
> expenses in generation and distribution. So our utility, Westar, has a rate 
> increase before the corporation commission “decoupling” their fixed costs 
> from energy costs. And from that they are proposing to charge new solar 
> customers a high base fee for the use of the grid (~73% of the total bill) 
> and a lower energy charge…plus a demand charge for capacity required for the 
> highest fifteen minutes of use each month. This is becoming common across the 
> US as utilities try to assure their long term rate base. How it plays out for 
> us is that a high fixed charge leaves not much that solar or efficiency can 
> change.  A 50% reduction of the 27% left for the energy charge leaves only 
> 13.5% that’s variable. When they add in the demand charge, it kills the 
> investment incentive that solar offers. Now it would be possible to deal with 
> high demand charges in the same ways we used in trying to keep the loads from 
> overloading old and relatively expensive inverters…timers and lockout relays 
> and such to keep large loads from coming on simultaneously. Continuous cat 
> and mouse game with the utilities.
>  
> Bill Dorsett
> Manhattan, KS
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jay
> Sent: Friday, May 01, 2015 7:06 PM
> To: glenn.b...@glbcc.com; RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Demand charges for residential
>  
> Hi all 
>  
> A different question. The tesla sites makes the claim that " often power 
> companies charge for peak rates "
>  
> My question is where is this happening in the us for residential customers?
>  
> Thanks
>  
> Jay. 
> Peltz power. 
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation

[Sky Sims]

The devil is always in the details. Going rate for projects of that size
is between $7 and $30 a watt. Space requirements for 2mgw is between 4
and 12 acres. Material, site selection, labor costs, goals of project
developer, financing etc. etc. etc., play a big factor in determining
the finer points.

Sky Sims
Ecological Systems
http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz
220 County Road 522
Manalapan, NJ 07726
732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962


-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of roger
dixon
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:15 AM
To: t...@hughes.net; 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation

Did you ever get a response to this post?  If so, would you mind sharing
it/them with me?  I am also trying to get a handle on how much
ground/acreage a 1MW or 2MW solar installation would use.  Any idea?

Thanks,

Roger Dixon
Certified Wind Site Assessor
Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC
908.337.2057 cell
908.730.6474 fax
roger.di...@att.net


-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
t...@hughes.net
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:39 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation

Can anyone out there give me this info or have a site that I can get
these
figures. How about the area required for a project of this size?  Thanks
in
advance. Tump
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Feedback on Sunny Web Box and Sunny Portal

[Sky Sims]

We've used a couple. The public access feature is nice. Might require
someone with computer experience to set up the local network protocols
properly for internet access. 

 

Sky Sims

Ecological Systems

http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz

220 County Road 522

Manalapan, NJ 07726

732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
cvso...@aol.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:46 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Feedback on Sunny Web Box and Sunny Portal

 

Wrenches,
   I am looking into using the Sunny Web Box and Sunny Portal on some
new installations and possibly adding to some older ones.  What
experiences have you had with this system?  We are being asked by a
large potential customer for our experience with the data system we are
quoting.  One of my employees has taken an SMA Course and has some hands
on with the system but we would like some field input. We will have
students and other folks watching as we hook this up at one of our
sites.

 

 

John Blittersdorf

Central Vermont Solar & Wind, LLC
104 River Street
Rutland, VT

802-770-8625

30 years living off-grid

 



Which stars will make the biggest headlines in 2009? Get Hollywood
predictions, celebrity holiday photos and more with the PopEater Toolbar
<http://toolbar.aol.com/popeater/download.html?ncid=emlweusdown0025>
. 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] system commissioning time frames

[Sky Sims]

Only the owner can place the system in service. The owner can place it
in service whenever he wants. 

 

Sky Sims

Ecological Systems

http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz

220 County Road 522

Manalapan, NJ 07726

732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark
Frye
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 2:16 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] system commissioning time frames

 

Kirpal,

 

The term in the tax Code is "Placed Into Service".

 

What is the date that the system was placed into service such that it
can serve the purpose for which it was built?

 

Note that the date is the date on which the system is capable of serving
the purpose, regardless of whether or not the owner chooses to use the
system for that purpose.

 

In this case, backfeeding a net meter is clearly part of the purpose of
the system. As such the system cannot be placed into service until the
net meter is in place.

 

Hold off on the interconnection until January.

 

Of course, this is all strictly a matter which can only be discussed
between the owner and his tax advisor.

 

:-)

 
Mark Frye 
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 
303 Redbud Way 
Nevada City,  CA 95959 
(530) 401-8024 
www.berkeleysolar.com <http://www.berkeleysolar.com/>   

 

 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirpal
Khalsa
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:00 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] system commissioning time frames

Greetings..we recently installed a solar pv system on a residential
customer and it has been inspected by both the local electrical
inspector and the state rebate authority and approved.  Now that we have
passed those inspections, the next phase of the process is having the
utility company come out and install their new meter for net
metering..I was wondering if anyone has a definitive answer as to
what actually commissions the system?  We are thinking of having the
power company hold off until after the new year so that the customer can
get the 2009 tax credits instead of the 2008 credits...
The question is does the system get commissioned once it is inspected or
once the power company gets the new meter installed so that the system
can actually be turned on.
Thanks for any advice...It actually could be worth its weight in
gold!...
Cheers,
Kirpal Khalsa
Renewable Energy Systems
www.oregonsolarworks.com

No virus found in this incoming message.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Need help to get power torque wrench

[Sky Sims]

I would typically just use a cordless gun followed up by 2 guys with
torque wrenches and cheater bars.

Sky Sims
Ecological Systems
http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz
220 County Road 522
Manalapan, NJ 07726
732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darryl
Thayer
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:15 PM
To: newrewrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Need help to get power torque wrench

Hi all, I need advice
I am soon starting a 1000 module system, uning top down mounts, What
power tools will tighten to torque specification?  I will want to
tighten each SS 1/4" nut on bolt to proper specs.  This is about 2000
bolts, so i want a power tool, either air or battery electric, or
electric that will tighten to specification.  

Thanks Darryl


  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] mix-n-match Unisolar

[Sky Sims]

Reality tends to agree with the EE. But opinion pushes the other way.

 

Sky Sims

Ecological Systems

http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz

220 County Road 522

Manalapan, NJ 07726

732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Geoff Greenfield
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 4:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: Randy
Subject: [RE-wrenches] mix-n-match Unisolar

 

I thought I knew the answer to this one, but wanted to run it by the list.

 

We are responding to a bid where the electrical engineer has designed a system 
with different sized Uni-solar laminates in some series strings paralelled with 
consistant full size strings.  (this was done to work around skylights etc).

 

We suggested that this was a poor design and will lead to "least common 
denomenator" performance, exacerbated by MPPT confusion.  The EE responded that 
"the bypass diodes allow for this".

 

Any experience with this in practice?

For a brighter energy future,

Geoff Greenfield
Founder and CEO
Third Sun Solar & Wind Power Ltd.
340 West State Street, Unit 25
Athens, OH 45701

740.597.3111 Fax 740.597.1548
www.Third-Sun.com

Clean Energy - Expertly Installed



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Actual losses from dissimilar orientations onsingle inverter

[Sky Sims]

August makes a good point. There really isn't much solid info on the
topic of dissimilar orientations.

In the experiments I've conducted using different orientations and tilts
on the same strings the production almost exactly matches the average
projected production across the orientations and tilt. 

In regard to using mix matched modules in parallel strings I haven't
seen any noticeable difference in performance either. Of course this is
an advanced technique and requires an awareness of string voltages and
amperages in order to avoid excessive power clipping. The biggest
problem with using different manufacturers panels with each other
appears to be more bureaucratically driven rather than performance
based.

What I mean to say is that because the manufacturers are unlikely to
provide a written endorsement allowing you to use their panels in the
same string with someone else's, you may have trouble with a bureaucrat
requiring that endorsement.

There is a lot of rumor floating around about how important it is to use
the same panels and the same orientations and tilts. And I agree it is
important, but there may be circumstances that over ride those rules. 

I've had many systems where for esthetic or available space reasons a
panel or 2 in a string of modules was put at an entirely different tilt
and orientation. I've played quite a bit with it and haven't noticed any
reduction in performance that would warrant the elimination of what
might be 10 to 30% of the string or perhaps even the entire string.
However with inverters like enphase coming to market it becomes easier
to ensure that every panel in a string is at the same orientation and
tilt.

I always recommend the best tilt and orientation possible but sites and
circumstances coupled with other details specific to the site sometimes
force us to go with less than optimal string placement practices. A
healthy well rounded understanding is important and I don't feel that
the industry has done enough to create that understanding yet. Best
practices have certainly been promulgated but the context has not been
fully explained or explored yet.

Inverter reps and installation reps and panel reps have made many many
representations based on their best guesses and in some cases what they
have seen first hand. We the implementers are the guinea pigs, get used
to it. Thankfully the kinks are getting worked out.

Perhaps in another couple decades when things settle down we'll have
properly documented studies of mix matched panels, orientations and
tilts. Of course by then things will be so completely different that it
wont matter any way.

My 2 cents,
Sky Sims
Ecological Systems
http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz
220 County Road 522
Manalapan, NJ 07726
732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darryl
Thayer
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 12:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Actual losses from dissimilar orientations
onsingle inverter

Hi all
There are a couple of principals here
1) NEVER NEVER PUT TWO STRINGS OF DIFFERENT ORIENTATION IN SERIES!!
2)The currents are dependent upon irradiance, which varies greatly.
3) The voltage and the Vmp is rather close for varying irradiance, and
therefore if forced non coincident orientation in parallel is not so
great.  In that the currents will add and both strings will be near MPP.
4) of course the caveats that parallel strings must always be of the
same modules and same count.
Darryl 


--- On Fri, 9/12/08, August Goers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: August Goers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Actual losses from dissimilar orientations on
single inverter
> To: "'RE-wrenches'" 
> Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 9:38 AM
> Wrenches  -
> 
> The correspondence below brings up a question I've been
> pondering... What
> are the actual losses due to differing string orientations
> on a single
> inverter? Are there significant differences between the
> major inverter
> manufacturers? What if we have a very steep roof facing
> East - West, would
> we be better off with two inverters? 
> 
> The well known Fronius white paper
>
(http://www.fronius-usa.com/worldwide/usa.solarelectronics/downloads/fro
nius
> _ig_reaction_to_non_optimal_conditions.pdf) seems to
> indicate that losses
> will be in the ~1% range. I took a SMA class a couple years
> back and they
> indicated that the losses were probably closer to the 3%
> range, maybe even
> more. Maybe things have changed by now, it would be great
> if some
> manufacturer reps would chime in.
> 
> Does anyone have any data or solid info on this issue?
> 
> Looking forward to hearing the latest.
> 
> Best,
> 
> August
> 
> August Goers
> 
> Luminalt E

Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA and Blue-in-the-tooth

[Sky Sims]

As far as I'm concerned the sunny beam gets filed with the powerline
communicator. A good idea that would be an awesome product but SMA once
again hurts their reputation and the reputation of some of their
installers with release dates that are off by several years and may be
nothing more than vaporware when it's all said and done.

They make some good products, and their customer support is about as
good as I've seen, I just don't understand why they have to soil
themselves with unrealistic release dates that are nothing but wishful
fantasy.

Sky Sims
Ecological Systems
http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz
220 County Road 522
Manalapan, NJ 07726
732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg
Seelhorst
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:00 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] SMA and Blue-in-the-tooth

Anthony at SMA told me last week that they had run into some design
modifications for the famous 2nd generation Sunny Beam (Bluetooth
version)
and the word is that it will not be out until December.  They have been
flooded with calls on the Sunny Beam and seem to be at the mercy of HQ's
R&D
in Germany.




Greg Seelhorst
Installation Manager
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer(r)
Solar Works
400 Morris Street, Suite C
Sebastopol, CA 95472
707-829-2518 (work)
707-849-6819 (cell)
707-829-8283 (fax)
CA Solar License (C-46) #878231



On 8/27/08 6:43 PM, "marco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  
> Have our SMA friends released their wireless monitoring system yet?
Or is
> the only available way to monitor one or more of the Sunny Boys
through
> their web box set-up?
> 
> Thanks,
> marco
> 
> Marco Mangelsdorf, Ph.D., President
> Electrical Contractor License C-26351
> 69 Railroad Avenue, A-7
> Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
> (808) 969-3281, 934-7462 facsimile
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Power-Save and Power Works

[Sky Sims]

Dan,

Glad you brought up reactive vs real power. I was under the impression
that most residential meters measured apparent power not real power. 

Based on your description:

If the utility meter measures apparent power the power save will likely
reduce the customers bills by ensuring that the apparent power matches
the real power used.

If the utility meter measures real power then it wont have any affect.

Sky Sims
Ecological Systems
http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz
220 County Road 522
Manalapan, NJ 07726
732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Exeltech
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2008 4:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Power-Save and Power Works

A reply from a power engineer's perspective:

The "Power-Save" device contains only an AC capacitor.  Nothing more.
I've had them in my hands, looked inside, and even used lab-grade
equipment to evaluate their effectiveness - or not.

When connected to an AC power circuit, all a Power-Save does is provide
varying amounts power factor correction when inductive loads are in use
(depending on the load).  It does not, and can not reduce "real power"
consumed.

Prove it to yourself.  Put a Kill-A-Watt meter or Watts Up meter in line
with an inductive appliance.  With the appliance running, set the meter
to read actual watts, and record the value.

Next, change the wattmeter to read volt-amps and record the value.  If
you're using a wattmeter capable of reading power factor, measure and
record that as well.  With reactive loads (e.g. motors), the V-A value
will ALWAYS be higher than actual watts.  How much higher depends on the
motor (among other things).

Then, put the Power-Save into the circuit.  If you're lucky, the
capacitor will balance out some of the inductance in the circuit caused
by the appliance, and the measured volt-amps reading will decrease from
the previous reading.  The power factor will also improve (get closer to
a value of 1.0).  However, if you check the *real* power being consumed
with the Power-Save connected, you'll find the wattage hasn't changed.

Ray saw no change because he was monitoring real watts.

The allegation in the ad of a "big" change is either because they were
monitoring reactive power (volt-amps) in the demonstration.

Compressor surge watts will be different every time the appliance turns
on.  The surge peak depends on a variety of variables, such as the AC
voltage at the moment the compressor turns on (are we at a peak or
zero?) .. the head pressure at that instant .. the type and age of the
compressor .. the position of the piston relative to a compression
stroke, and so forth.

As to the "testimonial" .. who knows?  I recall seeing anti-aging skin
creams refuted recently, where doctors gave on-screen endorsements of
the product, then later admitted under oath they'd never touched the
very product they were endorsing.

I've also met electrical engineers who didn't know the difference
between watts and volt-amps.  Perhaps this was another, if in fact the
endorsement is even legit.

The power company will like it if you improve your power factor, but you
won't see any measurable reduction in power consumption resulting from
the use of this device.

So why do they sell it?  Something about "one born every minute" comes
to mind.


Regards to all


Dan
Sr. Engineer
Exeltech



  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Braided grounding wire

[Sky Sims]

Good point Jay. I'm sure we all strive for uniformity and a one size
fits all solution, but I agree, in the end every site is unique and
requires custom solutions tailored to its actual conditions. 

Always appreciate your thoughtful take on things,
Sky Sims
Ecological Systems
http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz
220 County Road 522
Manalapan, NJ 07726
732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jay
peltz
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Braided grounding wire

One issue that has been troubling me is the 1 size fits all.

We live and work in many really different environments.

Because of this, what works here might not work there, but just  
because it doesn't work there, does not mean
that I shouldn't be able to use it here.

Lets look at the the desert regions vs Hawaii.  In the desert rust/ 
corrosion just isn't a problem so braided wire isn't going to be a  
problem.
Vs hawaii where maybe only solid wire, let alone stranded is the only  
choice.

So I think that our industry is getting really far down the 1 size  
fits all path and i see that being ineffective, expensive, and throws  
creativity out the window.

Just my 2 cents.

jay

peltz power

On Aug 22, 2008, at 1:26 PM, Sky Sims wrote:

> Braided wire works great for grounding and lasts a long time. I've  
> seen
> it sit in a puddle of water for over 20 years. I will say that the  
> green
> oxide coating occurs pretty soon after installation usually in the  
> first
> 6 months to 1 year whether its solid wire or braided. Its caused by  
> the
> interaction of the copper with oxygen. It's a non issue as long as  
> your
> contact points are good. You can ohm it out to verify the contacts are
> good. 5 ohms or less is a good ground. Want to do more testing? then
> it's time to break out the arc welder.
>
> Sky Sims
> Ecological Systems
> http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz
> 220 County Road 522
> Manalapan, NJ 07726
> 732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of R.
> Walters
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:01 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Braided grounding wire
>
>>
> We don't use braided for direct burial. We use it to bond to the
> array, run with the PV wires, and switch to regular copper as soon as
> we go into conduit at the first J box.  We zip tie it together in a
> bundle with all the MC cables.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>> Braid tends to "wick" water, and we have seen it corrode into a
>> crumbly green mass of copper oxide in a matter of 2-3 years in wet/
>> damp locations. Probably OK for indoor use, but we prefer to avoid
>> it completely.
>>
>> .

>> .
>
>> 
>> Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun
>> .

>> .
>
>> 
>>
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> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.6.6/1623 - Release Date:
> 8/20/2008 8:12 AM
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Braided grounding wire

[Sky Sims]

Braided wire works great for grounding and lasts a long time. I've seen
it sit in a puddle of water for over 20 years. I will say that the green
oxide coating occurs pretty soon after installation usually in the first
6 months to 1 year whether its solid wire or braided. Its caused by the
interaction of the copper with oxygen. It's a non issue as long as your
contact points are good. You can ohm it out to verify the contacts are
good. 5 ohms or less is a good ground. Want to do more testing? then
it's time to break out the arc welder.

Sky Sims
Ecological Systems
http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz
220 County Road 522
Manalapan, NJ 07726
732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of R.
Walters
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 2:01 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Braided grounding wire

>
We don't use braided for direct burial. We use it to bond to the  
array, run with the PV wires, and switch to regular copper as soon as  
we go into conduit at the first J box.  We zip tie it together in a  
bundle with all the MC cables.

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

> Braid tends to "wick" water, and we have seen it corrode into a  
> crumbly green mass of copper oxide in a matter of 2-3 years in wet/ 
> damp locations. Probably OK for indoor use, but we prefer to avoid  
> it completely.
>
> ..

> 
> Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun
> ..

> 
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Gray code area

[Sky Sims]

As long as the solar breaker is not larger than panels main breaker
there is no potential busbar overloading. The whole concept was created
by a misinterpretation of what the bus rating actually is. 

A review of this issue by qualified materials engineers will end this
issue entirely. The breakers are thermally activated. What everyone is
referring to as the buss rating is actually the tab rating. The buss is
typically rated for 8 or more x the tab rating. A 200amp panel has a bus
capable of safely handling a 1000amps. It has tabs (the things that
connect the breakers to the bus) capable of safely handling 225amps. 

Here's the best part for those that don't already know this: Breakers
are thermally activated, as the bus or the breakers heat up they derate.
Pretty fail safe way to prevent a potential overloading issue if you ask
me. 

As long as no breaker exceeds the tab rating and you limit your current
SOURCES(utility and solar) feeding the panel to 2 it is impossible to
overload the bus or the tab.  

Sky Sims
Ecological Systems
http://www.ecologicalsystems.biz
220 County Road 522
Manalapan, NJ 07726
732-462-3858  toll free)866-759-7652  fax)732-462-3962


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of jay
peltz
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 11:31 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Gray code area

Hi Drake,

do you know how this is all done in say Germany?
I realize they have different codes ( hopefully) but how do they  
address the main issue of potential bussbar overloading?

thanks,
jay

peltz power
On Jul 30, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Drake Chamberlin wrote:

> Thanks to All who have replied,
>
> First, to answer William's question
>
> "What is a "feed-through" breaker box and what are "feed-through"  
> lugs?"
>
> A feed through panel is the type of service equipment often  
> installed on pre-manufactured homes, where a main switch is needed  
> outside the building, and a limited number of loads, fed from the  
> outside, are also supplied.  On the bottom of the busbar,  there  
> are lugs equivalent to the lugs for the service entrance cables.
>
> This is useful when feeder is to be installed to supply the breaker  
> panel in the premise that is equal to the total service amperage.   
> No breaker is needed for the run to the subpanel inside, since the  
> wiring will be equivalent to the service cable.   It is similar in  
> function to a disconnect switch, but will typically have 4 to 8  
> breaker spaces.
>
> The situation in this project is that a feed through panel is in a  
> separate building from the building to be supplied from that  
> panel.  The building this panel is in has a separate electrical  
> service, which is commercial.  The service for the residence comes  
> in through a separate meter, located on this  same commercial  
> building, then goes to the feed through panel.  This panel was  
> installed for us, for the sole purpose of allowing a feed from the  
> solar array.
>
> The issue here is that the busbar will have 200 amps from the main,  
> and over 40 amps from the solar.  No power is to be taken from the  
> residential service to feed the commercial building.   There is no  
> possibility of an overload on the busbar because the house has a  
> main 200 A breaker that will limit the load from the panel.
>
> It could be argued that since the line to the house will have up to  
> 240 amps available on a 200 amp service, that is too much.  I would  
> argue that a standard service drop can supply 10,000 amps  
> instantaneously.
>
> The box is strictly to be used as an AC combiner and feed for two  
> inverters.  By the letter of the NEC, it does not seem to be code.   
> I'm going to use Kent's suggestion and use a label, after running  
> it by the AHJ beforehand.
>
>
> -Drake
>
>
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