Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Jason Szumlanski]

If it's 240V single phase center tapped between two legs of a 480V delta
transformer, then one of the 240V legs *is* technically a neutral. What you
have is two 240V legs between two of three 480V phases. That said, if the
service from the utility is this type of 480/240V "split-phase," which
presumably is exclusively to run pumps, then you're probably going to have
a hard time coming up with a good solution, and the utility will probably
not appreciate the phase imbalance that would be introduced. On the other
hand, if the load is constant and greater than the solar production, they
may appreciate it, provided you can find a suitable inverter, which I don't
know of for this type of service.

If the service is actually 480V delta and they are providing 240V for the
customer's convenience with a center tapped neutral, then obviously the
3-phase 480V is where you want to connect, but because you have 3 wires and
not 4 this does not seem to be the case. See if the utility will supply the
third hot 480V conductor and switch the service to 3-phase. They can leave
the neutral in place to support the 240V loads.


[image: Inline image 1]


Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group



On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Chris Mason <cometenergysyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> If it's delta there is no neutral.
> On Apr 29, 2016 12:40, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> HI Jerry and all,
>>
>> I’m sorry if I confused the issue.
>> I haven’t seen this, I’m doing the research for a friend.
>> It has been measured at numbers  provided.  480 line to line, 240v line
>> to neutral, 2 hots wires, not 3.
>>
>> The client has been told by 3 different installers that its impossible
>> system to do.
>> And as the experts here have provided, thats just not true.
>>
>> Thanks for the input.
>>
>> jay
>>
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I cant say l have seen a single phase delta, open delta, use two of the
>> three legs but not on pumps, can someone explain,  what am l missing as the
>> term delta is three points
>> Jerry
>> On Apr 28, 2016 3:50 PM, "Jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Great inverter but this is single phase.
>> Jay
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: Chris Mason
>> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
>>
>> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
>> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> HI All,
>>>
>>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial
>>> water pumping site with
>>>
>>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>>>
>>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>>>
>>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks
>>>
>>> jay
>>>
>>> peltz power
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Chris Mason]

If it's delta there is no neutral.
On Apr 29, 2016 12:40, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> HI Jerry and all,
>
> I’m sorry if I confused the issue.
> I haven’t seen this, I’m doing the research for a friend.
> It has been measured at numbers  provided.  480 line to line, 240v line to
> neutral, 2 hots wires, not 3.
>
> The client has been told by 3 different installers that its impossible
> system to do.
> And as the experts here have provided, thats just not true.
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
> jay
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I cant say l have seen a single phase delta, open delta, use two of the
> three legs but not on pumps, can someone explain,  what am l missing as the
> term delta is three points
> Jerry
> On Apr 28, 2016 3:50 PM, "Jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Great inverter but this is single phase.
> Jay
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
> Jerry
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Chris Mason
> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
>
> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> HI All,
>>
>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial
>> water pumping site with
>>
>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>>
>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>>
>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> jay
>>
>> peltz power
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[don]

Hi Jay -Usually 408 delta will have 3 legs.  See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_powerUnlike Wye, the neutral is center tapped from the winding between two of the legs.The third is a hi leg or "stinger" leg that is 1.5 times the others voltage to neutral.Sounds like what you have is two of three legs with a center tapped neutral; the the hi leg is probably around somewhere on site. If you can find it then a 3-phase inverter will work. Otherwise, as mentioned you will need a transformer to get 240 across the legs you have. But 10kW of solar will unbalance the phases. Best to find that third leg and use a 3-phase inverter. I have used the Fronius IG Plus 11.4 for this with good results. Don BarchEnergy Solar
Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 08:03:26 -0700
From: jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
Message-ID: <b75c4e4a-5eb4-49d0-a7d4-9bdee1e40...@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

HI Jerry and all,

I?m sorry if I confused the issue.  
I haven?t seen this, I?m doing the research for a friend.  
It has been measured at numbers  provided.  480 line to line, 240v line to neutral, 2 hots wires, not 3.

The client has been told by 3 different installers that its impossible system to do.  
And as the experts here have provided, thats just not true.

Thanks for the input.  

jay


> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I cant say l have seen a single phase delta, open delta, use two of the three legs but not on pumps, can someone explain,  what am l missing as the term delta is three points
> Jerry
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016 3:50 PM, "Jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com ><mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Great inverter but this is single phase. 
> Jay
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com ><mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
>> Jerry
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S? III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> 
>>  Original message 
>> From: Chris Mason
>> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
>> 
>> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com ><mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> HI All,
>> 
>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial water pumping site with
>> 
>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>> 
>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>> 
>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>> peltz power




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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[jay]

HI Jerry and all,

I’m sorry if I confused the issue.  
I haven’t seen this, I’m doing the research for a friend.  
It has been measured at numbers  provided.  480 line to line, 240v line to 
neutral, 2 hots wires, not 3.

The client has been told by 3 different installers that its impossible system 
to do.  
And as the experts here have provided, thats just not true.

Thanks for the input.  

jay


> On Apr 28, 2016, at 6:58 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I cant say l have seen a single phase delta, open delta, use two of the three 
> legs but not on pumps, can someone explain,  what am l missing as the term 
> delta is three points
> Jerry
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016 3:50 PM, "Jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Great inverter but this is single phase. 
> Jay
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
>> Jerry
>> 
>> 
>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>> 
>> 
>> -------- Original message ----
>> From: Chris Mason
>> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
>> 
>> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> HI All,
>> 
>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial 
>> water pumping site with
>> 
>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>> 
>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>> 
>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>> peltz power
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Garrison Riegel]

The newer Tripower STP3 can be configured for delta, but the 12000-24000 
cannot.  A step up transformer sounds like the way to go.

Best,
Garrison

Garrison Riegel
Solar Service Inc

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jerrysgarage01
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:11 PM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
Jerry


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Chris Mason
Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta


You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com<mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:
HI All,

I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial water 
pumping site with

480v single phase delta configuration.

PV will be in the 10kw range.

Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?



thanks

jay

peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Jerry Shafer]

I cant say l have seen a single phase delta, open delta, use two of the
three legs but not on pumps, can someone explain,  what am l missing as the
term delta is three points
Jerry
On Apr 28, 2016 3:50 PM, "Jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Great inverter but this is single phase.
Jay

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>
wrote:

What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
Jerry


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Chris Mason
Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:

> HI All,
>
> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial
> water pumping site with
>
> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>
> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>
> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>
>
>
> thanks
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Jay]

Great inverter but this is single phase. 
Jay

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 3:10 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
> Jerry
> 
> 
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Chris Mason
> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
> 
> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
> 
>> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> HI All,
>> 
>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial 
>> water pumping site with
>> 
>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>> 
>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>> 
>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> thanks
>> 
>> jay
>> 
>> peltz power
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Chris Mason]

The Tripower is 3 phase
On Apr 28, 2016 18:11, "jerrysgarage01" <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
> Jerry
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Chris Mason
> Date:04/28/2016 8:52 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta
>
> You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
> On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> HI All,
>>
>> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial
>> water pumping site with
>>
>> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>>
>> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>>
>> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>>
>>
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> jay
>>
>> peltz power
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[jerrysgarage01]

What about an SMA Tri Power inverter
Jerry


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message From: Chris Mason 
<cometenergysyst...@gmail.com> Date:04/28/2016  8:52 AM  (GMT-10:00) 
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta 
You will use a 240:480v step up transformer

On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay" <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
HI All,

I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial water 
pumping site with

480v single phase delta configuration.

PV will be in the 10kw range.

Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?



thanks

jay

peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[Chris Mason]

You will use a 240:480v step up transformer
On Apr 28, 2016 14:17, "jay"  wrote:

> HI All,
>
> I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial
> water pumping site with
>
> 480v single phase delta configuration.
>
> PV will be in the 10kw range.
>
> Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?
>
>
>
> thanks
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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> Change listserver email address & settings:
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[RE-wrenches] 480 single phase delta

[jay]

HI All,

I have a question from a person wanting to do a intertie on a commercial water 
pumping site with 

480v single phase delta configuration.

PV will be in the 10kw range.

Anybody have an idea of what equipment will work for this?



thanks

jay

peltz power
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